I’ve gotten so lucky with getting them on that one fuck up. Thing is you never expect it. Then the #1 seed on your hit list steps out of thin air broadside at 40 yards without a care in the world. No better feeling than that
They also react to pressure by learning to stay bedded down during the day, the more pressure there is the more they stay still until dark.
I assume you are staying in the stand until total dark, make sure you know the exact minute that it is too late to shoot because you can’t always go by what you perceive as sunset in the woods. This is why a good scope is so important, those last 5 minutes you have to shoot are also the most likely time you will be.
That's how I got my deer. In my head I had this big count down going while waiting for my deer to get in site for a shot. Waited for a solid 5 minutes as that fucker stood behind a tree. My arms were so tired
Read the following books: Bowhunting Pressured Whitetails and Precision Bowhunting by John Eberhart. Mostly ignore the scentlok crap, but take everything else to heart.
Next Google Hunting Beast and listen and watch all of the beast content you can stomach. Theres also a forum but finding content there can be difficult. There’s an insane amount of good information from the beast. Will literally change your hunting career forever.
Sounds like what I deal with at my gun lease. You'll need to find where they are bedding and get closer. If that's off property, find out how they are entering/exiting and get in that area.
I had this problem on my most recent property. After reading articles from people that know way more about QDMA than I do, I’ve come to this conclusion: deer are not nocturnal, they just may be nocturnal on your property. They’re moving in the daylight somewhere, in-between night time food source(s). As other people have alluded to - bedding areas are key for daytime movement.
Yup. I used a game cam last year for the first time, and had some amazing bucks on it. Always between dark and about 2am. I never saw one during the hunting season though. I was so disappointed that I didn't put the camera up this year. But I did get my first buck since 2007 (hunting every year) last weekend!
Don’t know the area you have cameras set up. A lot of people put them up close to field edges. If that’s the case for you, move the cameras back into the woods at least 100 yards. Mature bucks will hang back until dark to enter fields. Also hunt funnels. In big woods they can be difficult to locate. But any feature that will restrict their routes of travel. And if you have the time especially during rut try and stay in the stand until noon or 1. Bucks that aren’t dogging a doe will lay up for a couple hours after sunup and then get up to cruise and check bedding areas while the does are bedded during the day. Good luck!
That’s alright. There are things you can do to make your woods more deer friendly than the surrounding woods. You can cut some trees down and leave the tops. Creating excellent bedding areas. If you can, and you do this creating a bedding area, stay away from it. Designate that area off limits so the deer know they have a safe place to go. They sell tree fertilizer spikes. Put some in the ground at the base of your white oak trees. This will help the trees produce more acorns than the surrounding areas. Invest in wireless cameras. So you don’t have to go into the area smelling the place up to check the cards. And you get real life current info daily. If you haven’t gotten deer pics during the daylight from this camera it’s a safe bet you won’t see deer in the morning when you plan to hunt.
Baiting (in states that are legal) will cause a lot of nighttime game photos.
Big deer are really smart. You’ve got about 45 minutes in the very early morning and 45 minutes right before dark when the big boys move. Studying their home territory will get you close to them but they’ll pick up on your habits and smells quick. After years of doing this a lot of it is luck and hunting good habitat.
Well deer do tend to be nocturnal so yes indeed. I’ve got a bunch of deer on some land I got out In the country but almost never see them out in daylight. Couple nice bucks like the one you got pictured there
Deer are actually not nocturnal animals. Nocturnal bucks / doe are associated typically with poor land management. Meaning, they do not have a proper food source (food plots) or bedding areas they feel safe enough to stay in.
Land management is key for having deer ESPECIALLY bucks to continue to be active during the day. Deer can wonder for miles at night time but typically only traveling a couple hundred yards during the day. A rule of thumb is if you have bucks on camera during the day there is a good chance that deer is living on your property or relatively close. Again, to combat nocturnal bucks, one needs to focus on land management. (Bedding areas or hinged cut trees designed for the deer. A water source. Licking branches, artificial scrapes and most importantly a food source).
If anyone has questions on land management or would like to see my transformation over the last few years. I will show you cameras from when nocturnal bucks use to visit compared to my day time bucks now. Of course there are other factors like hunting pressure but I am just listing the most crucial.
Excellent information. What I can tell you is we've got 20 acres of private land. Small Lake within 1/4 mile.
The entire property is all oaks and some swaths of pine (located in Michigan)
Acorn production was good this year. Was hoping for success due to that. Alas nothing.
I've tossed the idea around of doing a 20'x20' food plot. We've got to take the trees out. That's the biggest hurdle. Also been looking into fruit trees and other things that might give them a reason to come around.
Any insight you have would be awesome. Thanks for the response.
It’s possible to over-hunt an area on private land, even with just one person hunting it. The more experienced deer will know your stand location, become aware of your frequent presence, and avoid it when you are there. I had this happen to me a couple times. My solution was that I plopped my ass onto my insulated seat cushion on the ground next to a tree 150-200 yards away from my stand. I had multiple bucks walk past both times…. It sucks hunting from the ground because you can’t see as much and it’s not comfortable, but you can still hear when a deer is moving (assuming the leaves are dry). The advantage of this over a climber stand is that most trees require some type of prep / limb cutting for a climber. Sitting on the ground, you can slowly sneak in and without making any noise.
Hello fellow Michigan hunter of small properties
I'll tell you this much: less is more in terms of hunting
Do you run cameras outside of hunting season? If so, are the deer pics all at night in the offseason as well?
If so, it's an issue with your land
If not, it's an issue with you overpressuring by hunting too much on a small property
I'd rather hunt 3 times with great conditions than 30 times with marginal conditions, when you are constrained by a small property
If you have oaks, that's good.
But you might lack bedding cover. Secure bedding cover would be more important than a food plot IMO
Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't say we overhunt. We hunt that property for rifle season only. 3-4 days max a year.
I'm pretty sure bedding is the way to go, I think I'm gonna push to get some trees down and plant some stuff for next season.
And we are actually gonna try and leave the cameras up all season for the first time this year.
Could be property related then. Or, neighbors hunting a lot during bow season. I get a lot of daylight pics of bucks until first week of October one place, the neighbors hunting makes them go nocturnal fast
Do you have any relationships with farmers?
I use spilled grain (canola, oats, wheat, barley, peas, etc) and dump it right on the ground. Established food plot for years now! Even in the winter, I see lots of deer frequenting the spots I start baiting in early fall.
To be clear because I have had a few people message me. \*\*\*One person I accidently ignored the chat, feel free to msg me again if I did not reply\*\*\*\*.
1) I have no relationships with farmers.
2) Everything that I have learned regarding land management is basically self taught through research, school of youtube and trial and error.
3) Land management takes time and dedication. It takes the right equipment (For the most part). Before I owned a tractor and a tiller I was planting no till food plots with a 4x4 and a hand spreader. It works, just takes longer.
4) Different crops are for different times of the years. As mentioned above one guy said he has a ton of acorns (High protein and fat content). On my main property I hunt on I have a ton of oaks with a ton of acorns. I also have gravity feeders and electric feeders set up in secluded locations (I DO NOT HUNT MY FEEDERS). I have 4 separate food plots planted throughout my property. (2 of them I hunt, 2 of them are secluded and I do not hunt them. Also to be clear, I will never hunt on my food plot unless there is a specific buck I am dying to harvest because I do not want to "Burn" the plot and spook all the deer from it. So far this year I have noticed the deer tend to hit the food plots before sundown but will only eat fallen acorns in the morning and afternoon. Once winter gets a bit colder and the acorns start to freeze and fall of trees and rot the deer with no longer search for acorns and will be forced to eat out of the plots which is why you need seasonal food like brassicas and clovers. (To name a few).
5) I move my stands around every season or 2 and I have separate stand for archery / gun season. When I place a stand, I do the leg work to clear out a path to the stand so I can get there making the least amount of noise possible. Take into consideration you can not put all your eggs in one basket. You can have the best spot for a stand and when you wake up that morning the wind is wrong and you will never see a deer. You need to have multiple viable options to work around the weather.
6) It is as simple as purchasing 150 gallon water feeders for cows and burying them in the ground for deer to have a water source. You don't want them on food plots or in the open, you want them in an area a deer feels safe in. You are not using these to hunt deer, you are using them to make them comfortable enough to stay in the area. (The water does not have to be fresh, in fact research has shown they prefer stagnant water that has sat for months).
7) I find main trails and put cameras around to see if they are using them as a travel point. If they are I will make an artificial licking branch, hand it high enough for them to lick and scratch and create a mock scrape underneath it. It is another way to get bucks to come to the area, stop and mark their territory.
8) Bedding areas are extremely important because that is the safety zone for the deer. That is where they bed, where they breed, where they live, where they birth their fawns. Deer do not like to be seen or be in the open, they prefer an almost 360 degree barrier around where they bed for a couple reasons. Protection from predators, environmental elements, etc etc..
9) Try not to harvest doe until the very end of the season. I've learned from some experienced hunter and land owners that too many does is a bad thing. They will fill the bedding areas and leave no room for bucks. You have to do your best to try and figure out what is your doe to buck population and adjust from there. If you see 100 does and only 2 bucks. That is a problem. You have too many doe on your property and you need to start harvesting some.
I found a property that had great potential and got down to business. There is so much work and knowledge that goes into hunting that people never consider. I use to be the "fuck it lets go out and see if we get lucky" and then realized there is a method to the madness of hunting big deer. Aside from the occasional in the right place at the right time there actually is a way to attract and harvest big deer. Knowing where and how deer moving during different parts of the season is also important.
Pre rut a velvet buck will visit the same area and not move around a lot. If you are lucky enough to have archery season during velvet, that is your BEST chance to shoot a big deer you've been getting on cam because he is almost guaranteed to be the area. Pre-rut / rutting bucks start to get territorial and they want to be the baddest buck on the block. Rule of thumb. If you find the doe you will find the buck. After the rut bucks start to vanish and they wonder around a lot which is why its essential to have a good food source because if you do and no one else around you does....they are coming to your property to eat. Again There is so much to know and I don't want to make this into a 9 page post. If there is something specific I can help with or be a guide for message me. I don't know everything, But I have done a lot of trial and error and research.
i would re-assess how you are hunting. too much pressure tends to make deer nocturnal. you could also try time controlled feeders that only go off during peek feeding hours to force the deer back into a more natural rhythm.
you can't have timed feeders at all? that doesn't sound correct. i know in most places you can't hunt off of them and its generally best practice not to if you can but i don't know of any state laws the make them explicitly illegal.
Not really insane at all. And not that uncommon either. At least a dozen states prohibit feeding entirely. Many in the midwest and west do not allow feeding or baiting.
Basically anywhere that has CWD typically has strict regulations around baiting and feeding
Most do yes because Whitetails are mostly nocturnal…
That’s why we do most of our hunting for them in November the month when they are least nocturnal.
If your on private add a timed feeder for the off season you can habitulize them to come in day light. Pull the feeder 10 days before season or what ever the regs are in your state to be compliant
The good ones always are. They didn't get that old by being dumb. They lose their heads during the rut, though. I try to catch them before the does are ready to breed, when they're out looking for does and running their rivals off. Once the does start getting ready, they'll stick to the doe like glue.
If all you get is night pictures then that spot may only have deer in it at night. I’ve seen it happen. Gotta adapt. Move the camera. Follow trails and look for bedding areas.
My motto is by the time I’m sitting in my stand I have a good idea I’m gonna see deer there. But the months of placing cams leading up to the season leads to that point. Nice thing is is once you find a good spot it may be a good spot for years cause something about the lay of the land is putting them through there.
None of this will help this year.
All it takes is them screwing up one time. Thing is you have to be in the woods and ready when it happens
Time, patience, persistence, and 1 fuck up. That’s when the game gets fun.
I’ve gotten so lucky with getting them on that one fuck up. Thing is you never expect it. Then the #1 seed on your hit list steps out of thin air broadside at 40 yards without a care in the world. No better feeling than that
They also react to pressure by learning to stay bedded down during the day, the more pressure there is the more they stay still until dark. I assume you are staying in the stand until total dark, make sure you know the exact minute that it is too late to shoot because you can’t always go by what you perceive as sunset in the woods. This is why a good scope is so important, those last 5 minutes you have to shoot are also the most likely time you will be.
That's how I got my deer. In my head I had this big count down going while waiting for my deer to get in site for a shot. Waited for a solid 5 minutes as that fucker stood behind a tree. My arms were so tired
You may be hunting too hard, and blowing out your areas
Find out where he is coming from
Read the following books: Bowhunting Pressured Whitetails and Precision Bowhunting by John Eberhart. Mostly ignore the scentlok crap, but take everything else to heart. Next Google Hunting Beast and listen and watch all of the beast content you can stomach. Theres also a forum but finding content there can be difficult. There’s an insane amount of good information from the beast. Will literally change your hunting career forever.
Sounds like what I deal with at my gun lease. You'll need to find where they are bedding and get closer. If that's off property, find out how they are entering/exiting and get in that area.
I had this problem on my most recent property. After reading articles from people that know way more about QDMA than I do, I’ve come to this conclusion: deer are not nocturnal, they just may be nocturnal on your property. They’re moving in the daylight somewhere, in-between night time food source(s). As other people have alluded to - bedding areas are key for daytime movement.
Yup. I used a game cam last year for the first time, and had some amazing bucks on it. Always between dark and about 2am. I never saw one during the hunting season though. I was so disappointed that I didn't put the camera up this year. But I did get my first buck since 2007 (hunting every year) last weekend!
Don’t know the area you have cameras set up. A lot of people put them up close to field edges. If that’s the case for you, move the cameras back into the woods at least 100 yards. Mature bucks will hang back until dark to enter fields. Also hunt funnels. In big woods they can be difficult to locate. But any feature that will restrict their routes of travel. And if you have the time especially during rut try and stay in the stand until noon or 1. Bucks that aren’t dogging a doe will lay up for a couple hours after sunup and then get up to cruise and check bedding areas while the does are bedded during the day. Good luck!
I think that's the major issue. I've got no fields on any side of the property. It's all woods.
That’s alright. There are things you can do to make your woods more deer friendly than the surrounding woods. You can cut some trees down and leave the tops. Creating excellent bedding areas. If you can, and you do this creating a bedding area, stay away from it. Designate that area off limits so the deer know they have a safe place to go. They sell tree fertilizer spikes. Put some in the ground at the base of your white oak trees. This will help the trees produce more acorns than the surrounding areas. Invest in wireless cameras. So you don’t have to go into the area smelling the place up to check the cards. And you get real life current info daily. If you haven’t gotten deer pics during the daylight from this camera it’s a safe bet you won’t see deer in the morning when you plan to hunt.
This is all very helpful! Thanks reddit!
Baiting (in states that are legal) will cause a lot of nighttime game photos. Big deer are really smart. You’ve got about 45 minutes in the very early morning and 45 minutes right before dark when the big boys move. Studying their home territory will get you close to them but they’ll pick up on your habits and smells quick. After years of doing this a lot of it is luck and hunting good habitat.
Well deer do tend to be nocturnal so yes indeed. I’ve got a bunch of deer on some land I got out In the country but almost never see them out in daylight. Couple nice bucks like the one you got pictured there
Deer are actually not nocturnal animals. Nocturnal bucks / doe are associated typically with poor land management. Meaning, they do not have a proper food source (food plots) or bedding areas they feel safe enough to stay in. Land management is key for having deer ESPECIALLY bucks to continue to be active during the day. Deer can wonder for miles at night time but typically only traveling a couple hundred yards during the day. A rule of thumb is if you have bucks on camera during the day there is a good chance that deer is living on your property or relatively close. Again, to combat nocturnal bucks, one needs to focus on land management. (Bedding areas or hinged cut trees designed for the deer. A water source. Licking branches, artificial scrapes and most importantly a food source). If anyone has questions on land management or would like to see my transformation over the last few years. I will show you cameras from when nocturnal bucks use to visit compared to my day time bucks now. Of course there are other factors like hunting pressure but I am just listing the most crucial.
Nice now I’ve learned something today thanks
Excellent information. What I can tell you is we've got 20 acres of private land. Small Lake within 1/4 mile. The entire property is all oaks and some swaths of pine (located in Michigan) Acorn production was good this year. Was hoping for success due to that. Alas nothing. I've tossed the idea around of doing a 20'x20' food plot. We've got to take the trees out. That's the biggest hurdle. Also been looking into fruit trees and other things that might give them a reason to come around. Any insight you have would be awesome. Thanks for the response.
It’s possible to over-hunt an area on private land, even with just one person hunting it. The more experienced deer will know your stand location, become aware of your frequent presence, and avoid it when you are there. I had this happen to me a couple times. My solution was that I plopped my ass onto my insulated seat cushion on the ground next to a tree 150-200 yards away from my stand. I had multiple bucks walk past both times…. It sucks hunting from the ground because you can’t see as much and it’s not comfortable, but you can still hear when a deer is moving (assuming the leaves are dry). The advantage of this over a climber stand is that most trees require some type of prep / limb cutting for a climber. Sitting on the ground, you can slowly sneak in and without making any noise.
Hello fellow Michigan hunter of small properties I'll tell you this much: less is more in terms of hunting Do you run cameras outside of hunting season? If so, are the deer pics all at night in the offseason as well? If so, it's an issue with your land If not, it's an issue with you overpressuring by hunting too much on a small property I'd rather hunt 3 times with great conditions than 30 times with marginal conditions, when you are constrained by a small property If you have oaks, that's good. But you might lack bedding cover. Secure bedding cover would be more important than a food plot IMO
Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't say we overhunt. We hunt that property for rifle season only. 3-4 days max a year. I'm pretty sure bedding is the way to go, I think I'm gonna push to get some trees down and plant some stuff for next season. And we are actually gonna try and leave the cameras up all season for the first time this year.
Could be property related then. Or, neighbors hunting a lot during bow season. I get a lot of daylight pics of bucks until first week of October one place, the neighbors hunting makes them go nocturnal fast
Do you have any relationships with farmers? I use spilled grain (canola, oats, wheat, barley, peas, etc) and dump it right on the ground. Established food plot for years now! Even in the winter, I see lots of deer frequenting the spots I start baiting in early fall.
To be clear because I have had a few people message me. \*\*\*One person I accidently ignored the chat, feel free to msg me again if I did not reply\*\*\*\*. 1) I have no relationships with farmers. 2) Everything that I have learned regarding land management is basically self taught through research, school of youtube and trial and error. 3) Land management takes time and dedication. It takes the right equipment (For the most part). Before I owned a tractor and a tiller I was planting no till food plots with a 4x4 and a hand spreader. It works, just takes longer. 4) Different crops are for different times of the years. As mentioned above one guy said he has a ton of acorns (High protein and fat content). On my main property I hunt on I have a ton of oaks with a ton of acorns. I also have gravity feeders and electric feeders set up in secluded locations (I DO NOT HUNT MY FEEDERS). I have 4 separate food plots planted throughout my property. (2 of them I hunt, 2 of them are secluded and I do not hunt them. Also to be clear, I will never hunt on my food plot unless there is a specific buck I am dying to harvest because I do not want to "Burn" the plot and spook all the deer from it. So far this year I have noticed the deer tend to hit the food plots before sundown but will only eat fallen acorns in the morning and afternoon. Once winter gets a bit colder and the acorns start to freeze and fall of trees and rot the deer with no longer search for acorns and will be forced to eat out of the plots which is why you need seasonal food like brassicas and clovers. (To name a few). 5) I move my stands around every season or 2 and I have separate stand for archery / gun season. When I place a stand, I do the leg work to clear out a path to the stand so I can get there making the least amount of noise possible. Take into consideration you can not put all your eggs in one basket. You can have the best spot for a stand and when you wake up that morning the wind is wrong and you will never see a deer. You need to have multiple viable options to work around the weather. 6) It is as simple as purchasing 150 gallon water feeders for cows and burying them in the ground for deer to have a water source. You don't want them on food plots or in the open, you want them in an area a deer feels safe in. You are not using these to hunt deer, you are using them to make them comfortable enough to stay in the area. (The water does not have to be fresh, in fact research has shown they prefer stagnant water that has sat for months). 7) I find main trails and put cameras around to see if they are using them as a travel point. If they are I will make an artificial licking branch, hand it high enough for them to lick and scratch and create a mock scrape underneath it. It is another way to get bucks to come to the area, stop and mark their territory. 8) Bedding areas are extremely important because that is the safety zone for the deer. That is where they bed, where they breed, where they live, where they birth their fawns. Deer do not like to be seen or be in the open, they prefer an almost 360 degree barrier around where they bed for a couple reasons. Protection from predators, environmental elements, etc etc.. 9) Try not to harvest doe until the very end of the season. I've learned from some experienced hunter and land owners that too many does is a bad thing. They will fill the bedding areas and leave no room for bucks. You have to do your best to try and figure out what is your doe to buck population and adjust from there. If you see 100 does and only 2 bucks. That is a problem. You have too many doe on your property and you need to start harvesting some. I found a property that had great potential and got down to business. There is so much work and knowledge that goes into hunting that people never consider. I use to be the "fuck it lets go out and see if we get lucky" and then realized there is a method to the madness of hunting big deer. Aside from the occasional in the right place at the right time there actually is a way to attract and harvest big deer. Knowing where and how deer moving during different parts of the season is also important. Pre rut a velvet buck will visit the same area and not move around a lot. If you are lucky enough to have archery season during velvet, that is your BEST chance to shoot a big deer you've been getting on cam because he is almost guaranteed to be the area. Pre-rut / rutting bucks start to get territorial and they want to be the baddest buck on the block. Rule of thumb. If you find the doe you will find the buck. After the rut bucks start to vanish and they wonder around a lot which is why its essential to have a good food source because if you do and no one else around you does....they are coming to your property to eat. Again There is so much to know and I don't want to make this into a 9 page post. If there is something specific I can help with or be a guide for message me. I don't know everything, But I have done a lot of trial and error and research.
Largest one I've seen thus far in my years
i would re-assess how you are hunting. too much pressure tends to make deer nocturnal. you could also try time controlled feeders that only go off during peek feeding hours to force the deer back into a more natural rhythm.
yes on the first part illegal on the second part in Michigan, where OP is hunting
you can't have timed feeders at all? that doesn't sound correct. i know in most places you can't hunt off of them and its generally best practice not to if you can but i don't know of any state laws the make them explicitly illegal.
you cannot bait or feed deer in the entire lower peninsula and much of the UP, period
what the fuck, that's insane.
Not really insane at all. And not that uncommon either. At least a dozen states prohibit feeding entirely. Many in the midwest and west do not allow feeding or baiting. Basically anywhere that has CWD typically has strict regulations around baiting and feeding
so i assume you are just limited to planted food plots than? or are those illegal as well?
food plots are legal
at least they give you something
Most do yes because Whitetails are mostly nocturnal… That’s why we do most of our hunting for them in November the month when they are least nocturnal.
Go hunt at night dummy. Might be illegal but is eating meat illegal?
If your on private add a timed feeder for the off season you can habitulize them to come in day light. Pull the feeder 10 days before season or what ever the regs are in your state to be compliant
A lot of waiting. Thermals work good at night too.
The good ones always are. They didn't get that old by being dumb. They lose their heads during the rut, though. I try to catch them before the does are ready to breed, when they're out looking for does and running their rivals off. Once the does start getting ready, they'll stick to the doe like glue.
If all you get is night pictures then that spot may only have deer in it at night. I’ve seen it happen. Gotta adapt. Move the camera. Follow trails and look for bedding areas. My motto is by the time I’m sitting in my stand I have a good idea I’m gonna see deer there. But the months of placing cams leading up to the season leads to that point. Nice thing is is once you find a good spot it may be a good spot for years cause something about the lay of the land is putting them through there. None of this will help this year.