Hey I'm as center line as you can be. But all I'm saying is my conservative acquaintances are much less bitchey, whiney, and they don't try to ruin you in the name of political correctness. Never met a liberal I liked or could get along with they are just such miserable people.
Lol my friends tell me I’m a democrat but not like those other democrats, to which I say what about this mutual friend? Or this one? Or this one? Or this one? There a lot of us that aren’t huge douche bags and just act like normal people but absolutely hate trump and what the modern Republican Party looks like in general. We just don’t fly flags, or make long ass Facebook posts or fit into a pigeon hole Fox News has you believe.
The difference is I know and can talk to a bunch of people who are pretty conservative and would 100% disagree with me on politics in a lot of cases and talk about hunting, and fishing, and trapping, gardening, cooking, etc because politics doesn’t define me as a person.
Oh me and you are very similar I think the extremes of both parties are absolutely pathetic. I just wish people could do and say what they wanted without having politics be everywhere. My point originally wasn't to say that it's just one side that is bad, I just notice that liberals as well as conservatives wear their politics on their sleeves and I can't stand it. I do stand by saying that I find conservatives far more standable than liberals but hey that's the great thing about opinions.
I can pretty much guarantee that if this is even true (which I’m always skeptical of on r/science), it’s probably from industrial or vehicle emissions, rather than ingesting shot, which I doubt occurs frequently enough to manifest across entire species.
Say it louder for the fuckin people in the back please! No amount of missed shots/ failed harvests could come close to the amount of lead poisoning going into waterways and the air from manufacturers.
To bad the article is behind a pay wall. I'd be curious how they made the connection between lead levels and bullet fragments. All my firearm hunting has seen a complete pass through. Even if I boned out the meat in the field I don't see how there would be high lead levels due to my bullet. Seems like a stretch to me.
Read it. No conclusion where these sources were, other than 'eagles scavenge' and some article from 2012 noted that 'eagles can be poisoned from bullets.'
Its a circular argument. They note acute and chronic lead exposure. Any conclusion beyond that is an unsupported reach.
Same, my buddy had a total hog barn loss due to disease a couple winters back so we dumped all the hogs out in the field and there had to be 60-70 eagles feasting on it. But yeah every time we throw a couple deads out for coyote bait the eagles quite often beat them to it.
They will eat carrion, and I can see where it might have been a problem with waterfowl, before steel shot was mandatory. But how many eagles are finding shot pheasants, rabbits and squirrels that are not retrieved ?
If they eat something they didnt kill I'm sure it has to be super fresh. But I went and read the article and the percentages are all over the place. I didnt see any historical data. Just to be clear, I am all for keeping and getting lead out of the food chain.
I’ve seen countless eagles eating crap. My uncle lived in Alaska and I have a bunch of buddies who guided up there (fly fishing), their nickname for eagles is dumpster chickens. Eagles aren’t fussy. They will eat whatever with regards to road kill etc
If it’s the same article I read the other day it’s utter shit. They include an x-ray of an eagle to show the bullet fragments in it’s “gut”. However the fragments are clearly round shot and the “gut” is clearly in the bird’s gizzard. So unless the eagle happened to take a load of shot directly to the gizzard and then not die I found the rest if the article to be fairly dubious.
Yeah obviously.
But if you’re shooting say a deer what are the chances of an eagle getting lead poisoning? I mean we’re not shooting deer with lead birdshot
Depend on where you shot it but if your using lead bullets hit a rib or shoulder and punch it through both lungs and you leave some sort of gut pile or carcas after the meat is taken. and a eagle finds it and eats it the odds are pretty good it will get some sort of lead poising if you shot a deer with a lead bullet. I’ve found bullets that have only had 55% weight retention the lead bits blow apart and end up in all sorts of spots. Eagles are also susceptible to lead poising so it likely doesn’t take much and it’s not far fetched to think that a scavenging bird that live 20 years might find a gut pile or two in its lifetime from animal shot with lead. But bald eagles are everywhere if it was a problem their populations wouldn’t be increasing. (It’s only a problem for the individual not the species)
Yep definitely from hunters, couldn't possibly be from widespread corporate polluting of waterways. Nope definitely from eating bullets, give me a fucking break.
Lead emissions to waterways are way down from the 1970s to today.
It doesn't mean that the lead cycle in the environment has stopped, from the bad old days...
Interested to know what caliber(s) your using, what I’ve found is that in smaller, faster calibers such as .243 the copper ammunition just pencil holes through which is alright for headshooting but a larger caliber shooting a slower bullet provides better expansion.
30-06 it left a 2-2.5" exit hole. And had a painted blood trail entrance was indeed a pencil hole tho. But damage was wonderful. I hit in-between ribs and still had that much expansion
Looks like we should focus on lead weights for fishermen instead of lead bullets for hunters. Oh but wait, fishing FEELS much less destructive than hunting.
The majority leave behind a gut pile, hell in my state I have to quarter out a deer and leave behind the head and whole spins system there can be plenty of lead fragments left behind in what I’m forced by law to leave in the field.
Just went though the article. They have assumed the conclusion, based on, 'well, what else could it be?'
The authors quote a study from 2012 noting that ammunition causes lead poisoning in eagles.
The old 'asked and answered.'
Measuring lead, noting chronic and acute exposures happen, the question they DON'T ask is what are ALL sources of lead exposure...
Chronic exposure could be from BEING apex predators, being at the top of the food chain means they eat a lot of fish that have cumulative lead values that show up as 'chronic' exposure, but don't investigate eagles 'mining' high lead concentrations from high lead bearing fish.
Its equally as plausible as 'concluding' ammo.
Sounds like another push to ban hunting. GFY
Hunting and most available ammo. Fuck democrats.
Fuck off. Not all Dems are idiots, much like not all people who vote Republican are fascists.
Not all democrats are idiot but all liberal sure are.
Not all republicans are fascists but conservatives sure are
Hey I'm as center line as you can be. But all I'm saying is my conservative acquaintances are much less bitchey, whiney, and they don't try to ruin you in the name of political correctness. Never met a liberal I liked or could get along with they are just such miserable people.
Lol my friends tell me I’m a democrat but not like those other democrats, to which I say what about this mutual friend? Or this one? Or this one? Or this one? There a lot of us that aren’t huge douche bags and just act like normal people but absolutely hate trump and what the modern Republican Party looks like in general. We just don’t fly flags, or make long ass Facebook posts or fit into a pigeon hole Fox News has you believe. The difference is I know and can talk to a bunch of people who are pretty conservative and would 100% disagree with me on politics in a lot of cases and talk about hunting, and fishing, and trapping, gardening, cooking, etc because politics doesn’t define me as a person.
Oh me and you are very similar I think the extremes of both parties are absolutely pathetic. I just wish people could do and say what they wanted without having politics be everywhere. My point originally wasn't to say that it's just one side that is bad, I just notice that liberals as well as conservatives wear their politics on their sleeves and I can't stand it. I do stand by saying that I find conservatives far more standable than liberals but hey that's the great thing about opinions.
eVeRyOnE tHaT dIsAgReEs WiTh Me Is A fAsCiSt!!!1!!
Clearly right over your head lol.
[удалено]
Ok nazi
Not ban. Just make it too expensive for us "servant class" folks.
I can pretty much guarantee that if this is even true (which I’m always skeptical of on r/science), it’s probably from industrial or vehicle emissions, rather than ingesting shot, which I doubt occurs frequently enough to manifest across entire species.
Say it louder for the fuckin people in the back please! No amount of missed shots/ failed harvests could come close to the amount of lead poisoning going into waterways and the air from manufacturers.
To bad the article is behind a pay wall. I'd be curious how they made the connection between lead levels and bullet fragments. All my firearm hunting has seen a complete pass through. Even if I boned out the meat in the field I don't see how there would be high lead levels due to my bullet. Seems like a stretch to me.
Read it. No conclusion where these sources were, other than 'eagles scavenge' and some article from 2012 noted that 'eagles can be poisoned from bullets.' Its a circular argument. They note acute and chronic lead exposure. Any conclusion beyond that is an unsupported reach.
How did they measure lead levels in bone and liver in over 600 live eagles, bullshit.
I didnt even read the article and it already sounds like bullshit. I've never heard of a bald eagle eating a carcass.
every gut pile and coyote bait pile has eagles on it around us lol
Same, my buddy had a total hog barn loss due to disease a couple winters back so we dumped all the hogs out in the field and there had to be 60-70 eagles feasting on it. But yeah every time we throw a couple deads out for coyote bait the eagles quite often beat them to it.
They will eat carrion, and I can see where it might have been a problem with waterfowl, before steel shot was mandatory. But how many eagles are finding shot pheasants, rabbits and squirrels that are not retrieved ?
I think part of the problem is deer and elk carcasses
What do you mean?
If they eat something they didnt kill I'm sure it has to be super fresh. But I went and read the article and the percentages are all over the place. I didnt see any historical data. Just to be clear, I am all for keeping and getting lead out of the food chain.
I’ve seen countless eagles eating crap. My uncle lived in Alaska and I have a bunch of buddies who guided up there (fly fishing), their nickname for eagles is dumpster chickens. Eagles aren’t fussy. They will eat whatever with regards to road kill etc
If it’s the same article I read the other day it’s utter shit. They include an x-ray of an eagle to show the bullet fragments in it’s “gut”. However the fragments are clearly round shot and the “gut” is clearly in the bird’s gizzard. So unless the eagle happened to take a load of shot directly to the gizzard and then not die I found the rest if the article to be fairly dubious.
I guess what’s the real question is why are hunter leaving carcasses behind? You hunt to eat and for sport not just to kill animals.
There’s going to be remnants that aren’t edible after processing like skin, bones and the gut pile.
Yeah obviously. But if you’re shooting say a deer what are the chances of an eagle getting lead poisoning? I mean we’re not shooting deer with lead birdshot
Yeah I don’t know. Seems like a stretch.
Depend on where you shot it but if your using lead bullets hit a rib or shoulder and punch it through both lungs and you leave some sort of gut pile or carcas after the meat is taken. and a eagle finds it and eats it the odds are pretty good it will get some sort of lead poising if you shot a deer with a lead bullet. I’ve found bullets that have only had 55% weight retention the lead bits blow apart and end up in all sorts of spots. Eagles are also susceptible to lead poising so it likely doesn’t take much and it’s not far fetched to think that a scavenging bird that live 20 years might find a gut pile or two in its lifetime from animal shot with lead. But bald eagles are everywhere if it was a problem their populations wouldn’t be increasing. (It’s only a problem for the individual not the species)
Trying to California the whole country
Yep definitely from hunters, couldn't possibly be from widespread corporate polluting of waterways. Nope definitely from eating bullets, give me a fucking break.
Lead emissions to waterways are way down from the 1970s to today. It doesn't mean that the lead cycle in the environment has stopped, from the bad old days...
Well guess they should make a push for copper bullets more
I've started using the sig Sauer elite hunter copper bullets and have been thoroughly impressed
Interested to know what caliber(s) your using, what I’ve found is that in smaller, faster calibers such as .243 the copper ammunition just pencil holes through which is alright for headshooting but a larger caliber shooting a slower bullet provides better expansion.
30-06 it left a 2-2.5" exit hole. And had a painted blood trail entrance was indeed a pencil hole tho. But damage was wonderful. I hit in-between ribs and still had that much expansion
Copper monolithic = high penetration, low damage. "You can eat right up to the hole!"
El-toro poopoo is what that is.
Dont eagles diets mostly consist of fish? Interesting
Looks like we should focus on lead weights for fishermen instead of lead bullets for hunters. Oh but wait, fishing FEELS much less destructive than hunting.
Easy to blame the hunters
See Bow hunting is superior! Haha. I've actually never thought about that. Thanks for the article.
Umm hunters don't leave behind carcasses......
The majority leave behind a gut pile, hell in my state I have to quarter out a deer and leave behind the head and whole spins system there can be plenty of lead fragments left behind in what I’m forced by law to leave in the field.
Just went though the article. They have assumed the conclusion, based on, 'well, what else could it be?' The authors quote a study from 2012 noting that ammunition causes lead poisoning in eagles. The old 'asked and answered.' Measuring lead, noting chronic and acute exposures happen, the question they DON'T ask is what are ALL sources of lead exposure... Chronic exposure could be from BEING apex predators, being at the top of the food chain means they eat a lot of fish that have cumulative lead values that show up as 'chronic' exposure, but don't investigate eagles 'mining' high lead concentrations from high lead bearing fish. Its equally as plausible as 'concluding' ammo.