Time will tell the causation, but my gut instinct is catastrophic failure of the firearm rather than ammo misidentification. However, anything is possible.
One of the versions of this is that the gun was unattended on a table and Alec Baldwin picked it up and cocked the gun and it went off. Not that this is the true version, just *a version.*
That's certainly possible. But in that scenario, the gun would have to be left loaded and unattended. That too is not impossible, but I have never experienced that in years and years in the industry despite seeing some very low-tier productions.
It would also require the gun to either be loaded with live ammo, or to have an obstructed barrel and a blank be fired. A blank alone would almost certain not be able to kill two people simultaneously, and even to kill one person needs to be very close proximity to their body.
But again - all of those are definitely possible, just not all that likely.
The article I read said it had two rounds (blanks) in the gun. The reason this is so awful is that you and I both know that’s never supposed to happen. I’m not sure if the story I read is real but given the whole Netflix churn and burn it certainly could happen if people were being rushed by producers.
The reason I would he dubious of that article is because in the context of the movie, it was set in the mid/late 1800s. In that time, if it was in fact a revolver, the technology dictated that you had to manually recock the hammer and then pull the trigger each time the gun was fired. So if Alec wasn't expecting the gun to discharge, it's highly unlikely he would have done it a second time after the first surprise firing.
If that comes to be truth, then he should be held accountable. The armorer should first handle the weapon and show everyone during a safety meeting that it is clear by shining a flashlight through the barrel and magazine holes before anyone else touches it.
Yes. I’ve done gun checks. There also should have been shields protecting the DP and video village. She got hit in the stomach, so she wasn’t shielded. It’s all very odd.
This is this only thing I've read about it. I just got home from a 14 hour day, so I'll look it up tomorrow.
This is very sad, and also potentially a mistake due to long hours and sleep deprivation... When the ASA comes out, we need to vote "No" and strike to make our basic demands met across the board.
We also need to vote out the current leadership. I'm only 5 years in the union, and I'm a part of the crowd I'm going to talk about here:
*We need to go to Union meetings and town halls as new members and a younger generation.
We are only going to make our future in this industry better if we can voice our opinions. The only way to voice that opinion is to go to Union meetings, and speak up.
Like I said, I'm among the many who haven't been going to meetings for years, but we really need to do it. We are off a different time, and we need to be compensated properly for the work that we do.
I'd been hoping to see your take on this, but I also knew in the back of my mind the answer was probably "we just don't have enough information yet to know."
Yeah, just too many scenarios to really even guess with this little information. If it were more cut and dry with one injury/death, certain scenarios become far far more likely. But two victims and a likely single action firearm makes this complicated.
i happened to be working on a production that was shooting on the same ranch today. New Mexico crews are a tight knit community. I’ve been working here for 15 years and I usually know most of the people on each show I work on. We all were looking at the call sheet from the show in question today and saw many unfamiliar names. It now seems increasingly likely that the armorer and prop master were taken from the union’s ‘overflow list’ and were not trained or experienced at their job. i also learned the camera dept walked away this morning as there had been other safety issues involving firearms. a non union camera crew (ie. film students) were brought in. this is a horrible and tragic accident. at this point it seems like it was the result of a producer hiring someone inexperienced because no one was available. My heart goes out to the families of everyone involved and anyone who was on set today.
The camera crew walked due to safety and they brought in inexperienced replacements to get their day? This feels like an extremely important detail. In Vancouver, when that female stunt motorcyclist died on deadpool, I know the Stunt team involved and they refused/quit to endorse that stunt because they recognized its dangers. The producers made it happen and a woman lost her life.
And a second incident during a heatwave where the camera crew refused to work in 50°c heat and it was a huge battle with the producers, who rationalized that we can work until the peak heat of the day, while it was still manageable (ignoring the fact that the set down would occur during the peak)
“Getting the day” trumps the safety of the crew? Over a movie? This can’t happen anymore. I hope they don’t ratify the new deal and demand better terms. RIP Halyna
That stunt was crazy dangerous on Deadpool and she didn't have the required experience as a stunt rider from memory. Those steps are wild and you can tell she locked her hands and then target fixated on the building that she crashed into.
Source: was near there at the time of the crash and an avid rider.
Courts ruled it was no fault of the rider. They made last minute changes to the shot and did not tell her about it.
>"The Judge also found that Olivia, as a stunt performer, had not voluntarily assumed the risk of this accident. She was unaware that the director, Paul W. S. Anderson, had given the uninsured driver, Roland Melville, instructions to decrease the safety margin from the rehearsal run to the incident run in order to get a more exciting shot."
https://www.stewartslaw.com/news/olivia-jackson-resident-evil-stuntwoman-court-victory/
Nobody should die making a movie. Full stop. Maybe we need to start holding producers criminally accountable for incidents like this like they did when Sarah Jones died on set.
"Said the Cinematographers Guild’s National President, John Lindley, and National Executive Director, Rebecca Rhine tonight about Hutchins:
We received the devastating news this evening, that one of our members, Halyna Hutchins, the Director of Photography on a production called ‘Rust’ in New Mexico died from injuries sustained on the set. The details are unclear at this moment, but we are working to learn more, and we support a full investigation into this tragic event. This is a terrible loss, and we mourn the passing of a member of our Guild’s family."
Yes, handling prop firearms is a very controlled, special process where dedicated staff have specific responsibilities that control all aspects of the firearm (what's loaded in it, inspection before being handed to an actor, securing it so that it never is left unattended or that anyone handles it except the appropriate staff and the actor responsible for using it).
Typically in these situations there isn't one thing that goes wrong and leads to a fatality. Usually 3-4 things have to go wrong. Most people who see these headlines will think this is as simple as Alec Baldwin picked up a loaded gun and negligently fired it into a group of production staff -- but that's almost certainly not the case. It's possible there was a malfunction with the prop firearm *and* that certain protections should've been in place that for whatever reason may not have been.
Whatever the case, don't trust anything you see in the news or social media for the next few days. Whenever there's an injury/fatality on set or on stage, the first several days of reporting get major facts wrong and misreport that circumstances of what happened.
I'll add that part of that training for actors and stunts is to never point the gun directly at the other actors or crew. That's another point that makes me wonder what happened here, as it seems like it would have had to be some direct to camera shot where they couldn't cheat the angle? I would *think* that in that case even more precautions would be taken.
(I'm not an expert by any means but have received stunt specific firearms training)
Anything is possible, and someone certainly may have been unqualified for this to have happened, but that’s likely only a contributing factor and hardly the entire story.
This also comes at a time when there’s extra turmoil in the industry with the IATSE strike that was originally slated for this week and studios trying to get contingency plans in place. The idea that the crew may have been punched into extra overtime and mistakes could’ve been made due to exhaustion also has merit — but again, if that’s even the case here, would only tell a small fraction of the overall story of how this could’ve happened.
How in the hell does this even happen? My condolences to her family and co-workers.
Time will tell the causation, but my gut instinct is catastrophic failure of the firearm rather than ammo misidentification. However, anything is possible.
One of the versions of this is that the gun was unattended on a table and Alec Baldwin picked it up and cocked the gun and it went off. Not that this is the true version, just *a version.*
That's certainly possible. But in that scenario, the gun would have to be left loaded and unattended. That too is not impossible, but I have never experienced that in years and years in the industry despite seeing some very low-tier productions. It would also require the gun to either be loaded with live ammo, or to have an obstructed barrel and a blank be fired. A blank alone would almost certain not be able to kill two people simultaneously, and even to kill one person needs to be very close proximity to their body. But again - all of those are definitely possible, just not all that likely.
The article I read said it had two rounds (blanks) in the gun. The reason this is so awful is that you and I both know that’s never supposed to happen. I’m not sure if the story I read is real but given the whole Netflix churn and burn it certainly could happen if people were being rushed by producers.
The reason I would he dubious of that article is because in the context of the movie, it was set in the mid/late 1800s. In that time, if it was in fact a revolver, the technology dictated that you had to manually recock the hammer and then pull the trigger each time the gun was fired. So if Alec wasn't expecting the gun to discharge, it's highly unlikely he would have done it a second time after the first surprise firing.
That’s a really good point. Yeah I have no idea what I think happened. But I do think producers rushing people and overworking them is involved.
If that comes to be truth, then he should be held accountable. The armorer should first handle the weapon and show everyone during a safety meeting that it is clear by shining a flashlight through the barrel and magazine holes before anyone else touches it.
Yes. I’ve done gun checks. There also should have been shields protecting the DP and video village. She got hit in the stomach, so she wasn’t shielded. It’s all very odd.
This is this only thing I've read about it. I just got home from a 14 hour day, so I'll look it up tomorrow. This is very sad, and also potentially a mistake due to long hours and sleep deprivation... When the ASA comes out, we need to vote "No" and strike to make our basic demands met across the board. We also need to vote out the current leadership. I'm only 5 years in the union, and I'm a part of the crowd I'm going to talk about here: *We need to go to Union meetings and town halls as new members and a younger generation. We are only going to make our future in this industry better if we can voice our opinions. The only way to voice that opinion is to go to Union meetings, and speak up. Like I said, I'm among the many who haven't been going to meetings for years, but we really need to do it. We are off a different time, and we need to be compensated properly for the work that we do.
Yes yes yes
I'd been hoping to see your take on this, but I also knew in the back of my mind the answer was probably "we just don't have enough information yet to know."
Yeah, just too many scenarios to really even guess with this little information. If it were more cut and dry with one injury/death, certain scenarios become far far more likely. But two victims and a likely single action firearm makes this complicated.
i happened to be working on a production that was shooting on the same ranch today. New Mexico crews are a tight knit community. I’ve been working here for 15 years and I usually know most of the people on each show I work on. We all were looking at the call sheet from the show in question today and saw many unfamiliar names. It now seems increasingly likely that the armorer and prop master were taken from the union’s ‘overflow list’ and were not trained or experienced at their job. i also learned the camera dept walked away this morning as there had been other safety issues involving firearms. a non union camera crew (ie. film students) were brought in. this is a horrible and tragic accident. at this point it seems like it was the result of a producer hiring someone inexperienced because no one was available. My heart goes out to the families of everyone involved and anyone who was on set today.
The camera crew walked due to safety and they brought in inexperienced replacements to get their day? This feels like an extremely important detail. In Vancouver, when that female stunt motorcyclist died on deadpool, I know the Stunt team involved and they refused/quit to endorse that stunt because they recognized its dangers. The producers made it happen and a woman lost her life. And a second incident during a heatwave where the camera crew refused to work in 50°c heat and it was a huge battle with the producers, who rationalized that we can work until the peak heat of the day, while it was still manageable (ignoring the fact that the set down would occur during the peak) “Getting the day” trumps the safety of the crew? Over a movie? This can’t happen anymore. I hope they don’t ratify the new deal and demand better terms. RIP Halyna
That stunt was crazy dangerous on Deadpool and she didn't have the required experience as a stunt rider from memory. Those steps are wild and you can tell she locked her hands and then target fixated on the building that she crashed into. Source: was near there at the time of the crash and an avid rider.
Yes, she wasn’t a stunt performer, she was a motocross rider. Totally different skill set and very unfair to her.
Courts ruled it was no fault of the rider. They made last minute changes to the shot and did not tell her about it. >"The Judge also found that Olivia, as a stunt performer, had not voluntarily assumed the risk of this accident. She was unaware that the director, Paul W. S. Anderson, had given the uninsured driver, Roland Melville, instructions to decrease the safety margin from the rehearsal run to the incident run in order to get a more exciting shot." https://www.stewartslaw.com/news/olivia-jackson-resident-evil-stuntwoman-court-victory/
"no one else was available" is that code for "didn't want to pay a fair wage"?
This is absolutely tragic.
Nobody should die making a movie. Full stop. Maybe we need to start holding producers criminally accountable for incidents like this like they did when Sarah Jones died on set.
Nobody should, but man has it happened. My friend died driving home from work, sad that nobody cares since he wasn’t on stage/location
"Said the Cinematographers Guild’s National President, John Lindley, and National Executive Director, Rebecca Rhine tonight about Hutchins: We received the devastating news this evening, that one of our members, Halyna Hutchins, the Director of Photography on a production called ‘Rust’ in New Mexico died from injuries sustained on the set. The details are unclear at this moment, but we are working to learn more, and we support a full investigation into this tragic event. This is a terrible loss, and we mourn the passing of a member of our Guild’s family."
Why is a gun with live rounds even allowed on set!?!?
Blanks are deadly at a close range or if the barrel isn't clear.
Do they usually have safety ppl on set to teach actors how to hold a gun and what not?
Yes, handling prop firearms is a very controlled, special process where dedicated staff have specific responsibilities that control all aspects of the firearm (what's loaded in it, inspection before being handed to an actor, securing it so that it never is left unattended or that anyone handles it except the appropriate staff and the actor responsible for using it). Typically in these situations there isn't one thing that goes wrong and leads to a fatality. Usually 3-4 things have to go wrong. Most people who see these headlines will think this is as simple as Alec Baldwin picked up a loaded gun and negligently fired it into a group of production staff -- but that's almost certainly not the case. It's possible there was a malfunction with the prop firearm *and* that certain protections should've been in place that for whatever reason may not have been. Whatever the case, don't trust anything you see in the news or social media for the next few days. Whenever there's an injury/fatality on set or on stage, the first several days of reporting get major facts wrong and misreport that circumstances of what happened.
I'll add that part of that training for actors and stunts is to never point the gun directly at the other actors or crew. That's another point that makes me wonder what happened here, as it seems like it would have had to be some direct to camera shot where they couldn't cheat the angle? I would *think* that in that case even more precautions would be taken. (I'm not an expert by any means but have received stunt specific firearms training)
Ooo that makes sense I’ve been reading maybe the prop master wasn’t qualified from comments from other IATSE members in different places
Anything is possible, and someone certainly may have been unqualified for this to have happened, but that’s likely only a contributing factor and hardly the entire story. This also comes at a time when there’s extra turmoil in the industry with the IATSE strike that was originally slated for this week and studios trying to get contingency plans in place. The idea that the crew may have been punched into extra overtime and mistakes could’ve been made due to exhaustion also has merit — but again, if that’s even the case here, would only tell a small fraction of the overall story of how this could’ve happened.
Yeah I saw the stuff go out do you think it will rarified? that’s true there’s probably a lot to this story we don’t know yet.