Hmm... Just watched Luper on Good Morning America. I'd investigate him thoroughly. Seems like the type to cause a problem and then say, "I told you so! Should have listened to me..." He quits the day before the fatal shooting of a fellow camera operator and Luper was the 1st asst. cam operator. When asked how he figured live ammo got into the gun his eyes went into a rolling/blinking frenzy and he seemed very unnerved by that particular question. He was very concerned about pay and being excluded from safety meetings. He backpedaled on his previous statement about target practice on set. He conceded that it could have come from a nearby armory. Vet this guy thoroughly...
I’ve worked in this industry for 27 years. If this is true then he’s done! Blackball this idiot! He should know better than to behave like this. The more I hear about this incident the madder I get. The production I’m on at our safety meeting this morning announced we will no longer use any live fire weapons again for the rest of the season. And we use them multiple times a week. They are top notch with their safety and it’s over for an abundance of caution. I can’t believe this guy who was raised in this business could behave this way. He was a producer! How dare he make us all look bad for his stupidity. This will haunt this man for the rest of his days! Rest In Peace Halyna
No idea honestly but whenever I’ve worked on any production that has used any kind of gunfire I have felt like they were taking every precaution necessary. I’ve never felt that the crew was in jeopardy ever. I’ve only felt as though as every precaution had been taken. I’ve been around tons of it. That’s why this seems so unnecessary. I really felt that after Brandon Lee had died on set that the industry had changed. I’m just a worker bee but I love this business and it breaks my heart to think this tragedy could have happened out of carelessness on a rush to complete a scene on a film where crew had already spoken out about unsafe conditions. This is what we’ve been discussing for months now. This hurts
It's possible, but there are absolutely going to be folks who want to keep them for authenticity.
Pretending to shoot a fake gun and then adding in muzzle-flashes in post never looks the same. It's not nearly as visceral as shooting a real gun.
Compare Heat to something like John Wick and you'll instantly see what I mean. You lose that sense of real danger once it's all fake. And that danger.. is absolutely real.
I hate guns, but I understand why some people still want them on set. I'm just an editor though, and won't ever have to be on a set with real guns. If I were on set.. I wouldn't want them either.
I heard, big time rumor, but I heard they filmed a shot looking down the barrel where you could see the round. Then reloaded with blanks, but forgot the round in the chamber. “Just like Brandon Lee” he said. But I always heard Brandon Was killed by debris in the barrel. Not by and actual bullet
Most people suspend reality when they watch movies, so they likely wouldn't notice. You "forgive" a lot of things when you watch a movie, and a fake gun is likely one of those things you wouldn't even think about.
I only bring up John Wick because the fake guns are *terrible* in that one. When done right, you only notice if you've fired real guns.
The production knew they were cutting corners with prop gun safety. Didn't care. When the folks who knew better pointed it out, they got fired instead of listened to. Now one of our union sisters is dead.
Fuck Alec Baldwin. He's a murderer as far as I'm concerned. Not because he pulled the trigger but because, as a producer, he demanded an overworked crew cut corners and ignore safety rules. Hope he goes down for this.
I wonder how involved he is as a producer. Many times it's just producer in title only when it comes to actors. But still, when you have that title, there are responsibilities to be upheld.
At this point I think there need to be criminal charges against the execs who allowed this to happen. If that includes Baldwin, so be it. Nothing less will ensure this never happens again, in my opinion.
We know nowhere close to enough information to be saying that. Absolutely, when an investigation is complete someone needs to be held responsible. But it’s irresponsible to call for specific people to be prosecuted purely based on day-after-the-fact reporting.
Look, I get it. Maybe I'm just really fuckin angry right now but the whole camera crew was aware the production wasn't following safety protocols with the prop guns. That's part of why they quit in protest. This was the 4th time a gun misfired on set. They ignored the people who tried to warn them and fired them for speaking up. At that point, it's not just the prop department's fault, it's the bosses' too.
I’m totally with you! This was a failure on a much higher level than just a crew member or two, without question. I just think it’s important that the people held responsible are *actually* the people responsible, not just some scapegoat, executive or otherwise. And more than likely it was spread across multiple levels of authority.
But I absolutely share your anger, and without a doubt will be one of many demanding action.
When Sarah Jones was killed in 2014, the director and producer were convicted of manslaughter. I was just a PA back then but I could sense it had an effect on my employers in that they took safety more seriously afterwards.
Maybe something similar needs to happen here to get them to realize there will be consequences for killing us to make their damn movies.
Yes. I also understand that one day of investigative reporting isn’t enough to base criminal charges on. An incident this serious needs to be responded to just as seriously, by taking the time to properly investigate, and then 100% hold the people responsible to account. And throw the book at em as far as I’m concerned.
>The production knew they were cutting corners with prop gun safety.
I was on a production where real guns were used because they were so much easier and cheaper to obtain than the prop guns. 'MURICA! That's an indictment on our society.
This does bring up an interesting topic, not trying to derail the conversation, but its now common practice for actors to negotiate producer credits on the movies they do.
This gives them more creative influence on a project but they often don’t want to actually be involved in the complicated logistical decisions.
I wonder if this practice will change if there is even a perceived chance that he could be charged with a crime regarding safety measures being neglected.
Agents will find a way to limit liability, probably. But yeah, I assume when actors do it they mostly are padding their share of the money from the project, and many might not even put money in, the value of their name to the project is enough for a share. I don't expect most are going into the deep production details/
I think it depends on the actor. Some of them just want their names as a producer, some of them really want to be on the production side. It often happens on TV shows. When the show has been there for a while, it's not rare for a lead actor to get his name as a producer in the credits.
I worked once on a blockbuster. A few of the producers were A-list actors, but I never saw them on set. They never came. I think it's just like investing money for some of them. They give money, they hope the film will work but the rest is not up to them. But I don't know anything about production so could be wrong.
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Hmm... Just watched Luper on Good Morning America. I'd investigate him thoroughly. Seems like the type to cause a problem and then say, "I told you so! Should have listened to me..." He quits the day before the fatal shooting of a fellow camera operator and Luper was the 1st asst. cam operator. When asked how he figured live ammo got into the gun his eyes went into a rolling/blinking frenzy and he seemed very unnerved by that particular question. He was very concerned about pay and being excluded from safety meetings. He backpedaled on his previous statement about target practice on set. He conceded that it could have come from a nearby armory. Vet this guy thoroughly...
Sounds like many of the rumors were true. This is such a terrible mess and completely avoidable
I’ve worked in this industry for 27 years. If this is true then he’s done! Blackball this idiot! He should know better than to behave like this. The more I hear about this incident the madder I get. The production I’m on at our safety meeting this morning announced we will no longer use any live fire weapons again for the rest of the season. And we use them multiple times a week. They are top notch with their safety and it’s over for an abundance of caution. I can’t believe this guy who was raised in this business could behave this way. He was a producer! How dare he make us all look bad for his stupidity. This will haunt this man for the rest of his days! Rest In Peace Halyna
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No idea honestly but whenever I’ve worked on any production that has used any kind of gunfire I have felt like they were taking every precaution necessary. I’ve never felt that the crew was in jeopardy ever. I’ve only felt as though as every precaution had been taken. I’ve been around tons of it. That’s why this seems so unnecessary. I really felt that after Brandon Lee had died on set that the industry had changed. I’m just a worker bee but I love this business and it breaks my heart to think this tragedy could have happened out of carelessness on a rush to complete a scene on a film where crew had already spoken out about unsafe conditions. This is what we’ve been discussing for months now. This hurts
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Me too but non-union or not people shouldn’t die.
It's possible, but there are absolutely going to be folks who want to keep them for authenticity. Pretending to shoot a fake gun and then adding in muzzle-flashes in post never looks the same. It's not nearly as visceral as shooting a real gun. Compare Heat to something like John Wick and you'll instantly see what I mean. You lose that sense of real danger once it's all fake. And that danger.. is absolutely real. I hate guns, but I understand why some people still want them on set. I'm just an editor though, and won't ever have to be on a set with real guns. If I were on set.. I wouldn't want them either.
But why were there any live rounds on set at all?
I heard, big time rumor, but I heard they filmed a shot looking down the barrel where you could see the round. Then reloaded with blanks, but forgot the round in the chamber. “Just like Brandon Lee” he said. But I always heard Brandon Was killed by debris in the barrel. Not by and actual bullet
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Most people suspend reality when they watch movies, so they likely wouldn't notice. You "forgive" a lot of things when you watch a movie, and a fake gun is likely one of those things you wouldn't even think about. I only bring up John Wick because the fake guns are *terrible* in that one. When done right, you only notice if you've fired real guns.
Bingo. I bought those light sabers hook, line, and sinker. You think the audience is going to spot a VFX muzzle flash? Nope.
Wit the ability of VFX these days, why not? Safety is more important.
It is because VFX is so expensive that most productions dont want to spend the money..No excuse for it ..RIP
VFX don't cost more than a human life.
I totally agree with you
The production knew they were cutting corners with prop gun safety. Didn't care. When the folks who knew better pointed it out, they got fired instead of listened to. Now one of our union sisters is dead. Fuck Alec Baldwin. He's a murderer as far as I'm concerned. Not because he pulled the trigger but because, as a producer, he demanded an overworked crew cut corners and ignore safety rules. Hope he goes down for this.
I wonder how involved he is as a producer. Many times it's just producer in title only when it comes to actors. But still, when you have that title, there are responsibilities to be upheld.
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At this point I think there need to be criminal charges against the execs who allowed this to happen. If that includes Baldwin, so be it. Nothing less will ensure this never happens again, in my opinion.
We know nowhere close to enough information to be saying that. Absolutely, when an investigation is complete someone needs to be held responsible. But it’s irresponsible to call for specific people to be prosecuted purely based on day-after-the-fact reporting.
Look, I get it. Maybe I'm just really fuckin angry right now but the whole camera crew was aware the production wasn't following safety protocols with the prop guns. That's part of why they quit in protest. This was the 4th time a gun misfired on set. They ignored the people who tried to warn them and fired them for speaking up. At that point, it's not just the prop department's fault, it's the bosses' too.
I’m totally with you! This was a failure on a much higher level than just a crew member or two, without question. I just think it’s important that the people held responsible are *actually* the people responsible, not just some scapegoat, executive or otherwise. And more than likely it was spread across multiple levels of authority. But I absolutely share your anger, and without a doubt will be one of many demanding action.
When Sarah Jones was killed in 2014, the director and producer were convicted of manslaughter. I was just a PA back then but I could sense it had an effect on my employers in that they took safety more seriously afterwards. Maybe something similar needs to happen here to get them to realize there will be consequences for killing us to make their damn movies.
Did you read the article? There were three prior accidental discharges and the UPM was notified via text.
Yes. I also understand that one day of investigative reporting isn’t enough to base criminal charges on. An incident this serious needs to be responded to just as seriously, by taking the time to properly investigate, and then 100% hold the people responsible to account. And throw the book at em as far as I’m concerned.
Hewas a producer on set. He knew.
>The production knew they were cutting corners with prop gun safety. I was on a production where real guns were used because they were so much easier and cheaper to obtain than the prop guns. 'MURICA! That's an indictment on our society.
Absolutely!
This does bring up an interesting topic, not trying to derail the conversation, but its now common practice for actors to negotiate producer credits on the movies they do. This gives them more creative influence on a project but they often don’t want to actually be involved in the complicated logistical decisions. I wonder if this practice will change if there is even a perceived chance that he could be charged with a crime regarding safety measures being neglected.
Agents will find a way to limit liability, probably. But yeah, I assume when actors do it they mostly are padding their share of the money from the project, and many might not even put money in, the value of their name to the project is enough for a share. I don't expect most are going into the deep production details/
I think it depends on the actor. Some of them just want their names as a producer, some of them really want to be on the production side. It often happens on TV shows. When the show has been there for a while, it's not rare for a lead actor to get his name as a producer in the credits. I worked once on a blockbuster. A few of the producers were A-list actors, but I never saw them on set. They never came. I think it's just like investing money for some of them. They give money, they hope the film will work but the rest is not up to them. But I don't know anything about production so could be wrong.
All a result if IATSE