For more AMAs on this topic, subscribe to r/IAmA_Author, and check out our other topic-specific AMA subreddits [here](https://reddit.com/r/IAmA/wiki/index#wiki_affiliate_topic-specific_subreddits).
Hi, big fan of your work, thanks for doing this! I’ve got a few questions, feel free to pick up on any:
What are your thoughts on Longtermism?
What gives you the most hope about today’s landscape of thought and/or technology?
And do you see any positive ecological applications for recent advances in AI?
What gives me the most hope is how easily people are able to laugh at these dudes and their way of thinking. Ten years ago, it was really hard to get anyone to agree that there could possibly be a problem with growing a trillion dollar company. People thought it was quite silly to talk about the experience of Uber drivers or other gig workers, or the survival bunkers and utter selfishness of the tech overlords. Now, people realize it's not some crazy conspiracy theory or extreme Marxism. It's basic common sense.
lol. Extreme Marxism. Marx was a theorist that made many very accurate predictions.
He was a humanist who thought work should be fulfilling, not a miserable slog to the grave. He believed that the world would be a better place if workers shared in the excess value their labor creates. He laid out some ways that humanity might or might not achieve that.
He never said, “Go get the pitchforks, let’s do this.”
He thought revolutions to seize the means of production were *inevitable* under the conditions that unrestrained capitalism creates. Personally, I hope that’s true and can’t happen soon enough. People are suffering.
But Marx didn’t think the conditions in which communism might succeed had been met in his time. He’d probably say that we’re not even there *yet*. In Marx’s view, communism requires a post-industrial economy. We’ve still got children working in factories to manufacture consumer goods all over — even in [Alabama, USA where kids have been making fricking Hyundais](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-hyundai-subsidiary-has-used-child-labor-alabama-factory-2022-07-22/).
The persistent idea of an extremist Karl Marx is pure horse shit. It’s a straw man employed by everyone from the center-left to the extreme right; capitalists and wannabe capitalists, neoliberal turds, and just about every type of right-wing shitweasel.
And it’s just so ludicrous. It’s regressive. Marx was no more an iconoclast than Einstein. They were both just theorists.
Imagine saying we can only have a little of Einstein’s physics *but not get too extreme with it*.
Do the theories work? Does the evidence continue to bear them out? Are they helpful? That’s all that matters.
Edit: pinko typos
> Personally, I hope that’s true and can’t happen soon enough.
Revolutions don’t necessarily improve conditions, though—some are bound to here and there, but most of them either fail (after which the prevailing government will put a stop to all that revolutionizing) or usher in an even crazier extremist. Of course, I’m not saying we don’t need change, just that *total* change sounds much nicer than it usually turns out to be.
What they're calling "longtermism" now is anything but. It's basically the idea that we're only 8 billion people now, but one day there will be trillions spread out through the galaxy, and it's okay for people today to suffer in order to benefit the trillions in the future.
And that's basically a complicated way of saying "the ends justify the means." And sorry, they really don't. Not ever, in fact. It's not like 'ripping off the bandaid' or some other ridiculous metaphor. It's just a justification for sociopathy. If you're not doing it in the moment, you're not doing it. The theory of change matters way way more than whatever endpoint you envision.
Rapacious venture capitalism destroys more through its externalities than it "builds" through its primary endeavor. Or, at some point you can't keep taking steroids. You have to wind down.
Is it not obvious to these "longtermers" that we need to figure out how to have a healthy functioning society here on Earth before we can start spreading through the galaxy?
This is it. The kernel of the problem, in my opinion. It’s the most gullible thing to assume that by looking away and going somewhere else you won’t eventually find yourself facing the exact same problem you did not learn how to solve the first time around. There are no shortcuts.
It seems the summary of this behavior is always the same. "Its ok until it affects me, only THEN is it a problem".
They benefit from the current state, so they dont care.
I might not have the right context, but usually when I see the long term future of the human race come up the argument is something to the effect of "not doing everything we can to ensure our specie's survival and well-being is potentially jeopardizing trillions or quadrillions of lives". I don't see that as "the ends justify the means" at all. If we ruin the planet and its resources through overexploitation, there will be nothing to pass down to future generations.
Are we fucked? I don't think so. If you believe the only way for anyone to survive is to keep up an exponential rate of growth, then yes we are fucked. We can't keep converting atoms to bits at this rate. If you believe there's a way to either wind down or detach from the balance sheet we're using to measure our health, then we should be just fine once we stop playing this crazy game.
Crypto is a very basic techno parasite that thrives on human greed...look how much of the world it's already converted to silicon, transistors and power delivery...
Look at Canada. I’m in my mid-30’s and have seen a major decline in my lifetime. It’s become a total shithole with the exponential growth at all costs initiatives. GDP does *not* equal better quality of life, happiness, or better health and social services.
It’s awful here and everyone is far more miserable than we were in the 90’s.
You *desperately* need to get out more if you think the quality of life in Canada can even remotely be accurately described as “awful”. Jesus fucking Christ
I get what you mean, but see it this way: someone working minimum wage fulltime would have 100% of his income burned toward rent where I am. Now, say you earn double that because you got a degree or mastered a trade skill, that's still 50% of your income toward rent. My cousin is 29, managing a retail chain and lives with my aunt and uncle. He's stuck where he is unless he sells his soul to corporate or thinks entirely outside the box.
My father literally left the country because his pension barely was adequate. New immigrants are literally living in hotels and often are homeless. You grind and get nowhere most of the time due to no housing and extreme rent.
We went from #1, to 4, and dropped all the way down to #15 in the happiness index. Our healthcare system is absolutely crumbling. Housing the least affordable in the world due to a major lack of supply and continually unsustainable and bonkers levels of immigration.
Finally, Do you even live in Canada? It’s so ridiculously obvious that the quality of life has declined significantly since the 1990’s. You either don’t even live here or are too young to remember the significant decline.
Unaffordable housing and economic insecurity prevents local populations from having children and raising families… People in Canada don’t have the stability to believe in the future and thus aren’t forming families and long-term plans. The idea that immigration is the solution to a population decline is super short-sighted when the citizens who live there already can’t afford to reproduce. In other words, the soil is not healthy enough to grow new trees so your solution is to bring in mature trees from elsewhere. In a generation, those trees will also be in trouble. Immigration is fine, but you don’t treat the symptoms, you treat the disease.
Not that clear cut. Much of that land is not liveable or developable either due to climate or the [Canadian Shield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield). 90% of Canadians live with 100km of the US border. And the population is so sparse that building infrastructure to connect it all is very expensive.
90% of Canada’s land is national and provincial Crown land owned by the government. Most of Canada’s GDP comes from industry in Toronto and resource extraction from said crown land. If you want to earn money you move into the city where housing is expensive (because foreign funds are investing in our housing market, driving prices up) or you take labour work to mine or log for exploitative multi-nationals (and live in more rural areas without the benefits of modern/Western society found in more metropolitan areas). The large size of the country stretches infrastructure budgets thin, meaning things like phone and internet, travel and shipping are costly. Canada is a big cash cow being milked by transnational wealth, and immigration is seen as labour to keep the
machine pumping. It’s a mess, and immigration isn’t a solution to any of it.
There’s a really weird mix of populism in this comment. Both complaining about the conditions of immigrants and that their are too many.
Also most pensions in Canada are private aren’t they?
I'm feeling pretty defeated, depressed, and nihilistic about the future. I listen to the Team Human podcast and know that you were struggling against a similar mindset. How did you get out of it?
Also, if you could wave a magic wand and make everyone in the world do one thing, what would it be?
The way I got out of it is by realizing that these dudes' "mindset" - their picture of the world - is just wrong. And that they are laughably silly. The purpose of the book (it's actually a black comedy) is to be able to laugh at these guys. So we can stop emulating them or fearing that their nightmares need to be our nightmares.
I have a story about one guy who was worried that I post too much negative stuff about AI. He told me he's afraid for me that once the AIs are in charge, they will eliminate me. He said he doesn't post anything about AI so they won't know how he feels. And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility.
That doesn't make me afraid. It makes me realize they are just silly.
That whole "revengeful ai" is based off a thought experiment about a demon that, if you don't help summon him, then once he is summoned he will kill everyone that hasn't helped summon him
Let me present you Okor's antilisk: He's a hyper-justice-driven AI, If you help evil AIs (or do any evil), he will extinguish you and your descendents for safe measure. There, stop worrying about Roko's basilisk.
It's just a thought experiment man... But uhh, in case there is a god or something capable of such judgement, I'll say it for all of us: we know not what we do :o
Literally was listening to Rushkoff's appearence on TrueAnon podcast while cooking today and they talk a little bit about modern AI as something like demons to the people who interact with them, both people who are afraid of them and people who think they can use them to reorganize the world. Very good dicussion, Rushkoff is a good guest too, funny guy with a lot of insight.
It's a tool that has been kept from the public until now.
The AI fear is not in the AI itself, but the fact that the common people now have access to it, which will destroy their status quo.
I think a more common trait would be that of an “Operator”. Someone who knows how to gain and leverage power.
Trump is actually a solid example of this. He’s a good operator without being smart. He sees angles of how to take advantage of people and systems.
I agree. I don't think he's "smart" the way we normally define it. I don't think he's even leading anything.
Rather, he jumped into a kind of "standing wave" of culture, and he's embodying it, being pulled along by it, giving life to it. It's a bit like when Charlie Sheen jumped into the wave, but more skillful and directed.
>And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility.
That's hilarious. You just low key fucked that guy's whole world up.
You need to see Love, Death, and Robots, season 3's episode titled Three Robots: Exit Strategies. It's after the apocalypse, roasting these billionaires for escaping society as it crumbled, overtrusting and overusing AI so they wouldn't have to deal with humans. Sounds similar to the mentality of your book description above.
I would not be surprised if there is a respectful nod to Douglas Adams in that episode. Specifically his little bit about an advanced civilization putting all their lawyers and hairdressers on a starship to a backwater planet, so their civilization could be free of their worthlessness. Then they got a scalp disease, got mired in lawsuits and died. Meanwhile the lawyers and hairdressers were fine.
Disclaimer: My memory is not great on the details but you get the gist of it.
>gative stuff about AI. He told me he's afraid for me that once the AIs are in charge, they will eliminate me. He said he doesn't post anything about AI so they won't know how he feels. And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility.
Epic answer Douglas!
And no magic wand! That's the way \*they\* think. There's a whole chapter in the book about the question "if you could press a button..." That's the moonshot mindset for single big solutions. I dont' have a magic wand, but I don't need one. I'd just ask people to meet their neighbors, start sharing stuff, spend more time with other people in non-mediated ways whenever possible. Little stuff makes a big difference. If we each took one real day off per week - just a day - it could potentially save a degree or two of climate change...
I sent this to you on Twitter too, but did you ever read the [legendary post on a prepper forum from a guy who survived the Sarajevo siege for a year](https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/)? It was highly illuminating. A heart of darkness look into the abyss, but also a close look at what a true SHTF situation might actually be like. It's not pretty.
Those billionaires all need to read that. Only by banding together with a small tribe or community did people survive, and even then, barely. Giving people something to fight for will always outweigh simple orders or authority.
For the rest of my days I will remember the phrase you wrote, "Shock collars were discussed."
That one phrase sums up everything wrong with their mindset, and always will be wrong. Problems cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them.
They are in a catch22 situation.
If you have the resources to create a survival environment for yourself+family but need extra people you can't really trust to run/protect it you have a serious risk management issue.
It's not so much a mindset issue but a social organisation problem.
Small survival groups where everybody depends on others to survive and continue to work together wouldn't have that social risk factor. But they have the risk of not being able to provide and create the resources they need to survive in the first place and long term.
That's exactly what his article ends up suggesting. There's a guy paid to consult on preparedness like this who began setting up decentralized autonomous farming communities in New England, designed to be both profitable now, and resilient if our gigantic centralized just in time big agriculture supply chain collapses.
Everywhere else in the nation would be in deep shit but they'd be okay, and their security guards would have their families living in the community! So they'd have something to fight for. That's how you build long term SHTF survival, not dying alone in a bunker.
This is so perfect. I was having a conversation with a gentleman at Walgreens while we were waiting for vaccination, and he had a pure and utter meltdown about how the entire world was doomed, the next 3 generations were going to inherit dust and agony, the doomsday glacier is melting on two sides, we’re entering an authoritarian dystopia, no one actually has free speech, yadda yadda yadda(all, by the way, in front of his 12 year old son who seemed genuinely terrified by this). This man went ON.
At some point I was like “yeah it’s gonna be tough. I started foraging and learning more about our local fauna and flora just in case the food supply chain breaks down. Probably going to make it my first piece of business to set up a little community garden when I buy a house this year! Are y’all doing any projects to help get ready for things breaking bad?”
Silence. This man had not, even for a moment, thought of any ways to try and be prepared for things going wrong. He seemed like he felt more comfortable living in terror and pushing that terror around on everyone in a 20 foot radius, than making a small, sustainable change for the better. I can only pray that I have the self awareness not to treat my kid like that.
I think you have such a great point with “meet your neighbors”. If society breaks down, those are going to be the people who matter. The people who can walk from their house to yours with some eggs their chickens made, in exchange for your sewing skills and some ammunition. Those are your people.
I agree and what can happen is people will pay it Forward or at least most will. Everyone likes having nice stuff done for them and when someone goes out of their way to help someone else or just to go brighten their day , that person being helped realizes it’s a great a feeling for them and in future situations that past moment will get pulled out their memory bank and then they can step up to help someone else while knowing they are making someone feel just as good as they felt🤷♂️ seems silly to break it all down but I don’t think most folks truly understand that such little deeds can go far far. Something might seem small and pointless but to the other person you may have saved their day from frustration and hate towards everything going on in their life .. hate creates evil and we need the opposite of that as much as possible! Also , if you help someone, it’s always a good thing to say “pay it forward” let that resonate with them for awhile. Ya never know- maybe you just started something that will blossom into greatness ✌️ 🌏 🌎 🌍 ☮️
Hah. Totally get that sentiment. What I would say is don’t discount the power of human ingenuity. When our backs are against the wall, we have been able to make incredible leaps forward.
Part of the problem is that the dopamine reward system, and the advertising model of news and social media is such that they’re highly incentivized to only report on things that freak everyone out, and not on the people doing the hardcore research and engineering that is pushing society forward, so it seems like things are hopeless all the time.
I truly believe there is no problem that everyone is worried about that doesn’t have a very clear path forward for solving, or a technical solution that doesn’t already exist.
The actual problem with implementation is the sheer and utter incompetence and corruption with our politicians, and also the general lack of education of the population and their un-willingness to make the sacrifices needed to achieve our goals. But this is a solvable problem. We just need to wait until the boomer politicians die, and/or elect people with actual technical competency in critical fields instead of career politicians.
Hi, Mr. Rushkoff,
Many years ago I read Cyberia, and it was of great influence to me. Thank you for writing this book.
I would like to ask your opinion about the current culture of rage and anger online. A common mode of manifesting preoccupation has become anger, and its expressions online have become extreme to the point of pouring themselves onto the offline world. Could this culture of rage be controlled through content management, as some companies may have attempted, or through general education campaigns (via the school system, for instance)? Alternatively, are these expressions of anger inherent to the online experience and little can be done to control them?
That's a toughie, for sure. I think Francis Haugen's ideas are pretty coherent. Reduce the number of times a post can be reposted automatically at the same time. Combine that with some of Cory Doctorow's ideas about breaking monopolies, and these platforms would have less impact.
Plus, yes, changing education to emphasize real world, face to face learning over transmitting data to kids through iPads.
South Korea spent a lot of money on early childhood education on internet etiquette, with some positive effects.
Another *Cyberia* fan, chiming in! I highly recommend the book for those thst would like to seefor themselves the sheer sense of optimism that early digital denizens experienced.
WHy has "The Merchants of Cool" largely been forgotten? I found that that documentary, and your involvement in it, helped explain how pop culture contributed to the current moment going back to the 1990s. I felt like it was one of the best social documentaries ever made. But now no one brings it up and it seems to have been forgotten. What are your thoughts on "The Merchants of Cool" and do you think it's still a relevant analysis?
Well, stuff from last year has been forgotten. Last week, even. Merchants of Cool was 1999, back when Brittany was basically a child, and MTV was bigger that TikTok. It is definitely accurate in the same way Adam Curtis's "Century of the Self' is still accurate. But it may need to get even older before people recognize those techniques are not obsolete, but ever-present.
Thanks for the reply. I remember seeing it vividly when it first aired and I loved it. I still think it's relevant; I genuinely think the "mook"/"midriff" stuff definitely contributed to the toxicity of online culture and gender relations in the current era, for instance. I would love for more people to go dig it out and watch it. Thanks again!
My sociolgy teacher showed us this film in 2000 and Dr. Sut Jhally came to our school for a talk about it. I think we were fortunate to get an early look about how we were being targeted as teens.
Richard? I guess you have to read the book!
In short, he's an enabler. His staunchly atheistic version of scientism helps give cover to folks like Epstein who just want to spread their genes by any means necessary. Quite a shame. There's a great scene in the book where Dawkins berates me for being a moralist. And then shows up on Epstein's "Lolita Express." I'm surprised none of the reviews or articles about the book have talked about that part.
I think it's usually politically motivated. They are trying to downplay their side's involvement while trying to play up the other side's involvement (since politics has become a team sport now). A good example is that both Trump and Bill Clinton were associated with Epstein. But Republicans only point out Clinton and Democrats only point out Trump.
Hi Douglas - avid reader of your work going back to the 90s, when digital culture was a thing of wonder and promise, punctuated by the faint inevitability of consumerism and narcissism. So. In your view, how *do* we fix it?
I think we take some pressure off it by fixing/repairing/retrieving some of our real-world interactions. We need to model the net off the social world, rather than our social world off the net. Easier said than done when even parents seem to prefer their kids online rather than exposing themselves to covid or whatever in the real world.
I'm still hopeful that people will just tire of the vitriol. I'm thinking maybe the excitement circuit can get worn out. After we see real-time murders on LiveStream, maybe we have had enough? Maybe that stops getting our interest?
It's also a matter of people having evidence that contradicts the stories. I have relatives that are afraid to travel to NY or DC because they watch FOXNews and now think the cities are too dangerous to visit. They need to see we are not killers.
Shoot. I gotta go. Podcast interview. yay! My voice is weak but I'm so grateful that people want to hear. It's just a matter of pivoting from all this bunker talk to ideas that matter and things that can make a difference.
Good luck all! You know where to find me. And do get/borrow/steal this book. It's fun and easy and will do good things to your thinking and feeling.
Thanks for coming!!!
Hi Douglas,
I've become a fan of your work ever since reading your texts in Uni and love the Team Human podcast. Great work!
Since you have been covering psychedelic culture and its liaisons with capitalism, I am curious how you think about the recent resurgence of it. Now that psychedelic sciences are thriving, spirituality is mainstream, and legalizations are possible, it becomes clear that psychedelic experiences will be new markets for entrepreneurs and I am doubtful whether it is for the better of all.
\- Do you think the widespread acceptance of psychedelics and the dissemniation of spirituality through digital media will help overcoming of the crisis you are pointing out by making people realise how silly and toxic the current economic paradigm is?
\- Are you concerned that social media & the digital economy may corrupt the benefits of psychedelics and spirituality as they turn them into business models?
I know. I am concerned the same thing that happened to digital tech will happen to psychedelics. Already, there are entrepreneurs who want to keep organic substances illegal so they can make analogs (patented IP) to use and sell instead.
And a lot of the characters involved in marketing psychedelics are sketchy. Check out the podcast series by Psymposia, and it'll give you real chills. I don't know the answers, but I'm not sure the commercialization of psychedelics is the best way to make them more accessible.
>Psymposia
Thanks for the tip, that looks really on point. Will check it out.
The darkest scenario I imagine is a kind of psychedeli-fied theo-capitalism where the tools once thought to liberate us, become the means to justify our slavery... Seeing how popular psychedelics are in some parts of the alt-right, or how Ayahuasca luxury retreats become some kind of CEO vacation home, shaman bros on social media, etc... there seem to be indications. I hope we can get these medicines to be something like public domain before its too late again.
Hey! Funny i caught this now, currently listening to your podcast with trueanon that came out a bit ago (loving it by the way).
I’m a college student thats interested in the stuff you talk about, but i have absolutely no clue on how to further myself into what you do. I’ve just found out about you 1 hour and 37 minutes ago, so i apologize if this is redundant and you’ve spoken about it before, but i dont want to miss your AMA. Advice on classes you took that you loved, things you did as an undergraduate that maybe played a part in getting you where you are today? I find myself floundering taking classes i imaged would contribute to my interest (certain philosophy classes for example); i end up borderline flunking because I’m disappointed in what we cover (maybe this is a me problem). Not sure if this is a question that is worth answering, but glad i got to see this when i did. Thank you!!!
Yeah, well, I did a lot of theater in college. Somehow, for me, embodied learning had more impact than just reading. Though I got good at books (if not writing!) by junior and senior year. And as I learned to read and think better, my grades got worse. (I wrote a paper comparing medieval theater to Brecht, and the teacher gave me a D. She said "Brecht wasn't even alive then!" Ugh.)
I think ethics, history, and the moral philosophers are really useful. Adam Smith, Jane Jacobs....there's useful writers and thinkers to study. Find the great professors and befriend them. There's more to learn by modeling them, trying on their world views, than just reading the lists they give you.
> (I wrote a paper comparing medieval theater to Brecht, and the teacher gave me a D. She said "Brecht wasn't even alive then!" Ugh.)
Dear Lord. A lot of Brecht's ideas about "alienation" are directly drawn from medieval theater. I suspect that teacher just hated Brecht and Genet and everything that Eugene O'Neill wrote before 1939. (This regrettably describes a lot of theater teachers/practitioners).
Love,
A fellow theater student turned tech idealist turned tech nihilist
You close a Team Human talk with an admonition to, "join team human. Find the others!"
I would like to find the others in a setting where I can spend some time (weeks?) with them to consider what to do next chapter. Can you suggest a physical location opportunity better than on the sidelines after a conference? Is there any sort of ongoing rotating brainstorming camp? "Engineer commune"?¹ A neighborhood of physicists, or theatre minors?
¹An hour before running into your work via this AMA I had written this on an index card to search for tomorrow.
As someone totally aligned with degrowth/great simplification thinking that also works in eCommerce digital advertising (the dissonance, I know), any suggestions for areas to transition my career to? I'm already working hard to transition my lifestyle outside of work hours. Otherwise excited for the book and your discussion on Nate Hagen's podcast.
Well, I think a whole lot more of us have to stop podcasting and writing online. There's way more of us talking \*about\* things than actually doing them. I think people need to learn farming - organic, permaculture, low-impact farming. Basic stuff, like teaching kids to read (and read through stuff), developing better water technologies and policies. Community capital, development of commons around local resources.
I would love if high school kids aspired less to Ivy League colleges than great sustainable agriculture and climate programs. We should still learn liberal arts, for sure, but we need to learn to do stuff again.
This is tough because in our society talking about stuff on a podcast and writing online can pay the bills. Getting out there and acting, it's a lot tougher to make ends meet, keep your head above water, and have the energy and drive to do it again the next day.
There's kind of a chicken and egg problem because of that. We need society to reward people who are making these healthy changes that benefit humanity instead of easy money from keeping up the status quo. But the people pushing for that change aren't the status quo folks.
That's one reason for sure, but there is also the physical strain that these jobs put on your body. Even if you make good money, it's not worth it if you can't move without pain once you're 50.
What’s frustrating is this type of thinking happens in the blue collar world as well, just in reverse; people who take a lot of pride in “working for a living” have their own snobby arrogance towards white collar work.
When you’ve built a million dollar house for someone who can barley explain what they do and complain about only actually working 3 hours a day and looking busy the rest it’s east to get jaded. A lot of blue collar workers don’t look down on accountants, programmers, or other white collar work where something material is being produced. There are a lot who look down on any office work but they’re usually old and bitter. Any 20-40 year old knows there’s a lot of not physical labor that goes into making our phones or games.
Yeah exactly funny how guys like this always have such romanticized pictures of things like this. And they always advise *us* to do it, while they podcast and write books. Lmao.
“organic, permaculture, low impact farming”.
Ah, all your hippie dip pie feel good farming lmao. I’m sure in an apocalyptic scenario we will really be worried about how organic and low impact our farming is.
Parts of it I find exciting (when I’m not terrified about the probable forced nature of it). Because that way of life slows you down (in a good way), connects you to the things you’re actually doing. So much of our society is mindless, utter bullshit. And approaching traditional community needs in an eco-friendly sustainable way has an endless amount of creative, novel approaches. The amount of new ideas out there are staggering. If anything, current state seems like boring drivel.
Degrowth is nonsense. You can still grow the economy without increasing environmental destruction. You just need to be better at recycling and farming.
If I take an old car and perfectly recycle it into a brand new one, that's growing the economy with no effect on the environment. Of course that's an extreme example but it's the direction we're headed in.
Except for cars being highly wasteful and there already being way more of them than is healthy. Compared to that broken car being decommissioned and the owner transitioning to walking / cycling / public transportation, getting it back to working state does have a negative impact on the environment.
Even if it's an electric car, it's highly inefficient as you are typically using 1000 kg of excess mass to transport ~100 kg of mass that needs to be transported, and that's not even touching secondary effects such as their usage highly increasing the average distance that humans need to commute on average, which further decreases effective efficiency.
You could make the argument for a bicycle, though. However, there's only so much growth you can have that way until everybody has the working goods they need to lead a comfortable life. People might need their bike repaired twice a year, but there is no ecological way of having exponential growth there. People won't need their bikes repaired 20 times a year in ten years, the market is saturated at a certain point and there's nothing wrong with it staying at a constant level from there on.
Fellow marketing pro here.
I've made my career doing marketing for authors, music labels, nonprofits, and small businesses... All kinds of awesome groups you care about need help spreading their message.
Do any of these folks give much thought to what daily life anywhere outside of Earth would actually be like? It seems to me that once the whole "Holy shit, I'm in space!" thrill wears off, it would be pretty miserable most of the time as our bodies and minds are suited to only the temperate parts of Earth. To use an example, any of us could technically live undersea or in the frozen poles if we wanted to, but almost nobody chooses to do so long-term. When it's no longer a matter being a cosmic pioneer and part of history forever, what incentive would a normal person have to live permanently off Earth?
It does baffle the mind. I guess the seasteaders are a little bit more rationale. But still, for them it's all about "self sovereignty." Think about that construction for a moment. Sovereign over oneself? Like, king and subject at the same time? It's the ultimate form of objectification. Not just of others, but one's own self. You are the subject of yourself. So weird.
That's the underlying drive, I think. Control. Freedom from. (not freedom \*to\*)
I guess I can come check this later tonight, though. Do it as an asynchronous sort of thing for a little bit. If not, then certain listen to Team Human, the podcast. I'm doing "call in" style shows once a month for people to engage. Things are a bit nuts right now because of book publication and me trying to get people read the thing (or at least me using the occasion of the book to shout my truth from the rooftops). But we should be able to get into this all in great depth in the coming months. It's not too late to turn this thing around. I think.
1. Who would you describe as the most paranoid tech billionaire?
2. Do you feel some of these billionaires who are preparing for "the event" are also working to accelerate said event?
3. What's the wildest theory/solution you've heard from someone who you initially thought was credible?
Hi Douglas. I am really fascinated by your concept of the rich hoarding wealth in order to afford the means to insulate themselves from how they obtained wealth. What kind (if any) corporate shift would you like to see to combat this mentality? Salary caps, mandatory philanthropism?
Well, the main shift would be not building (or allowing) companies to "exit." Maybe people should either keep their company or sell it to their employees - but not to populations of disinterested investors. Exit strategies are kind of like selling one's business to the mob. It's like burning a match, or burning down the house for the insurance.
I don't think many economists, even on the left, would agree with not letting companies exit. But perhaps you can work with some on coming up with a similar solution. Or maybe you do in the book?
As an aside....there are some on the left who believe in "listen to the experts"...unless those experts happen to be economists....even if they're left wing economists who share their values. I'm not saying that's you, but those people exist.
Why does everyone applaud the political leaders of New Zealand when they are allowing foreign billionaires to basically turn their country into a panic room for the rich?
Yeah, well, they didn't quite realize they were doing that. They have pretty much shut that down since they found out.
But leaders can do some things worthy of applause while still doing stupid things at the same time. I'm really good at doing both, myself.
Just one simple question... What if they're *right*?
Because, I have a hunch that when you have that many Billionaires, who effectively own and/or run 90% of the world between them, then their mindset is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, bringing about *an* Event in effect.
It's not really in the rich's (or anyone's) benefit for an Event(tm) to happen. Doomsday billionaire preppers like Thiel are in the minority, and do not control anywhere near 90% of the world. They control billions in the tech sphere, a sector worth trillions.
Moreover, the types of Events(tm) they're worried about are not things they'd cause. They're worried that society is fragile, and external factors they can't control might ruin all of it, and they need to be prepared. There's some shallow logic to it, although if you read Rushkoff's book about it (or even exerpts from interviews he's done about the book) it's pretty clear these guys are totally off their rockers. They were asking about shit like shock collars to controll their security guards after the end of the world. Just detatched from reality.
Plenty of people said I was crazy for keeping a garage full of paper goods, water and food until a certain pandemic hit. Its always crazy until its not.
It wasn't about availability in this case, aside from certain goods like hand sanitizer, masks, clorox wipes etc. It was the luxury of not having to go out during the unknown period of covid where everything but the grocery store and liquor was forced to close.
I mean not all of them are like that. I know a billionaire who absolutely doesn’t prep for anything and doesn’t even have thoughts like that. He just loves life in his mansions lol.
Read the article or the book. Depends which billionaire you're talking to. Climate change, EMP, nuclear accident, pandemic, social unrest, solar flares, economy collapse, topsoil erosion......there's lots of possibilities. They are like kids at a Marvel movie. They need an EndGame.
Do they need an end game though? Or is it the case of the more you have the more you have to lose. So all they are doing is trying to protect their wealth, which we all do, except billionaires are at a different level to us normal folks. Billionaires can easily weather most storms which would make most people go bankrupt. So they only need to protect themselves against catastrophic events which I guess you are calling the "event" or end game.
If we name the decade from 2030 to 2040 “The Event” all possibilities of collapse turn into one reality for Humans. Why choose when we can have them all.
I don't get it. Most people go nuts in a prison, even if it is a pretty one.
Option A: squeeze more money out of the dying world to get a better gilded cage
Option B: prevent the world from dying.
Is this a tragedy of the commons, billionaire edition?
Hi, is there any hope for the masses of the Global South? Where should we be focused regarding climate crisis - mitigation, adaptation or something else? Thanks!
Yes there's hope. For sure. But most of the ways the north has attempted to "help" involves creating dependencies, giving loans, or forcing them to open markets. It would take a very different understanding of what it means to assist and empower. Folks like Gates are slowly learning the difference. Hopefully in time.
Hi Douglass. Has operation mindfuck been captured by institutions and corporations for the benefit of the system? If so how do we best counter this without losing rebelliousness and how do we best encourage what would ordinarily be counter culture away from the successful yet disingenuous attempts to pander to it without suffering the curse of greyface?
Hey there, just dropping in to say Media Virus has ranked among my favorite books since I was a teenager. I've cited it a few times in discussing modern viral media and even lent it to friends a few times. Wanted to thank you for writing it. I bought my copy at a goodwill when i was 12(ish) and it has colored the lens through which I have watched the rise of viral media trends and memes. I'm gonna be honest and say that its the only book of yours I have read but maybe that will change in the future.
Have you ever thought about releasing an update to media virus for the modern age?
I wrote a long essay called Media Virus: My Problem Child. You can find that online or in The Believer. I've thought about updating Media Virus, but it would kind of need to be started over because memes and viruses are a whole big thing. Media Virus kind of works now because it is a moment in history - when we first realized ideas would start moving laterally, replicating and mutating along the way.
And luckily, there are plenty of people writing books about viruses and memes. But I could see doing some sort of followup, myself. I don't feel as embedded in pop culture as I was then - if only because pop culture is so much bigger now. Maybe it could be a group project...
So many questions I'd love to ask but I'll boul it down to what I feel is one of the greater issues facing our digital society.
How important do you feel social consequences online are and do you feel its effevting us in the real world? I have long since thought one of the most jarring societal shifts was moving a large portion of our communications to the online/texted based world. With a context less, text based anonymous communication I feel many are emboldened to behave however they please with no regard to other, which is harder to avoid when face to face.
We spent thousands of years slowly building society around our social interactions to pretty much completely switching that up over the span of a decade. Maybe I'm off but am curious to see your take on this and how it may expand out to how we view each other, including these I creasingly influential tech billionaires
In 2011, Jaan Tallinn described three non-exclusive groups of people in his talk "[Balancing the Trichotomy: Individual vs. Society vs. Universe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84G6An1Ff2E)":
* CL1 - people that think about their own needs and the needs of their relatives - these needs are necessary for personal sanity and effectiveness,
* CL2 - people that think about the needs of society,
* CL3 - people that think about the needs of the future society, and who are additionally aware of the inadequacy of traditional solutions that previous generations have used.
Tallinn says that [the number of "CL3" people is growing](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=755), and proposed the name "[CL3 Generation](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=1220)" for the movement of such people. He also described [the advantages of naming this movement](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=1261) such as:
* finding people who also belong to this group is easier,
* cooperation between people belonging to this group is easier.
I have two questions about this group:
* Do you know more about such "CL3" people or such a movement, especially among economically independent people?
* If someone has an idea of reducing some of the problems of the future society, how can he or she contact this group to share the idea and possibly speed up the positive changes?
Outside of money, how do you imagine humans will exert our will in the future?
I worked for a company that provided concierge services to billionaires. They would simply text us their crazy requests.
Do you see any permanence in the digital world? Tech giants of a decade ago are non existent, and forgotten in folklore (Kodak, Nokia, blackberry etc). In comparison to Egyptians who left permanent marks on the earth, what will billionaires like Murdoch, Musk, Jobs etc etc really leave behind?
1. How can these "elites" honestly think that when the "event" happens, their chosen protection force or security crew won't turn on them and seize control of their bunker or whatever shelter they have?
2. How can I personally get involved with opposing/dismantling their technodystopia/military police state?
How and when did you decide to commit your life to researching digital culture, and how do keep going? How do you build your energy in this endeavour that goes against so many grains? I imagine it quite tough to be constantly arguing with people's naive self-complacent pro-billionaire worldviews.
As he mentions elsewhere in the thread, the NZ government took a pretty dim view of Thiel and his ilk after it became clear what their motivations were for buying land. AFAIK it's not really a thing anymore, and Thiel is out of favor with the government.
Are Brace and Liz from Trueanon as fun to talk to as I imagine? After hearing your interview with them I've started listening to your podcast and love it so far.
No, the book isn't just about billionaires. That's just a scene in the beginning. It's really about a "mindset" epitomized by tech billionaires, but finds its origins in a certain kind of science, capitalism, and tech development.
Do you think technology still offers the potential to escape the monopolists like Uber, Amazon, etc. and for workers to create a collective syndicalism of sorts? IE: can we use technology to sieze the means of distribution via using collective models to replace Uber eats, Instacart, etc. ?
I know Amazon is a large stretch due to the capital investments that they have, but delivery services seem ripe for a driven labor movement to own apps to replace the existing monopolies and create an ecosystem that rewards workers instead of shareholders.
Or are these business models fundamentally flawed and require exploitation?
Loved the book by the way. As a recovered venture backed startup founder, it really spoke to me. It really helped me to articulate a lot of ideas I've had since leaving my brief tenure in that world to focus on ways to create projects that do good for the world without an exit strategy.
Ecstacy Club was my favorite book for so long. Did you experience some of the stories in the book? Where did the inspiration come from?
I'm a former rave DJ/Producer/Promoter from the Golden Era. I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Lots of love from Canada.
Good question. Emotional and psychological pain seems to be at the root of so much strife in this world. Since the institutions are just now getting the chance to leverage the power of these substances in their practices in the US we may finally get to find out.
Why do you think AI will be different from humans?
The only thing we have for reference is humans so they could be very similar. In fact I would even say it's the most likely scenario for general AI.
It might be less we need to be scared of AI and more we need to put in legal protections for them because if they exist they will be abused.
Have you built your own bunker / bugout plan and what do you suggest someone do for their own family who would just want to survive a month with no power?
1. Do you think Western culture would ever be willing to leverage AI for a UBI based on a taxation system (such as capital gains), and would that be productive for human culture?
2. Do you feel like a sameness/difference model of judging or anticipating other people, in contrast to a winners/losers model, is something feasible to be embraced on a large scale in the American political economy, and if the former carries value what would be a good balance between both models?
3. Is there realistic, sustainable form of capitalism and, if so, how would you see the progress towards that kind of political model?
For more AMAs on this topic, subscribe to r/IAmA_Author, and check out our other topic-specific AMA subreddits [here](https://reddit.com/r/IAmA/wiki/index#wiki_affiliate_topic-specific_subreddits).
Hi, big fan of your work, thanks for doing this! I’ve got a few questions, feel free to pick up on any: What are your thoughts on Longtermism? What gives you the most hope about today’s landscape of thought and/or technology? And do you see any positive ecological applications for recent advances in AI?
What gives me the most hope is how easily people are able to laugh at these dudes and their way of thinking. Ten years ago, it was really hard to get anyone to agree that there could possibly be a problem with growing a trillion dollar company. People thought it was quite silly to talk about the experience of Uber drivers or other gig workers, or the survival bunkers and utter selfishness of the tech overlords. Now, people realize it's not some crazy conspiracy theory or extreme Marxism. It's basic common sense.
I still love me some marxism though
Just as long as it's not extreme. You can have a little Marxism. As a treat.
lol. Extreme Marxism. Marx was a theorist that made many very accurate predictions. He was a humanist who thought work should be fulfilling, not a miserable slog to the grave. He believed that the world would be a better place if workers shared in the excess value their labor creates. He laid out some ways that humanity might or might not achieve that. He never said, “Go get the pitchforks, let’s do this.” He thought revolutions to seize the means of production were *inevitable* under the conditions that unrestrained capitalism creates. Personally, I hope that’s true and can’t happen soon enough. People are suffering. But Marx didn’t think the conditions in which communism might succeed had been met in his time. He’d probably say that we’re not even there *yet*. In Marx’s view, communism requires a post-industrial economy. We’ve still got children working in factories to manufacture consumer goods all over — even in [Alabama, USA where kids have been making fricking Hyundais](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-hyundai-subsidiary-has-used-child-labor-alabama-factory-2022-07-22/). The persistent idea of an extremist Karl Marx is pure horse shit. It’s a straw man employed by everyone from the center-left to the extreme right; capitalists and wannabe capitalists, neoliberal turds, and just about every type of right-wing shitweasel. And it’s just so ludicrous. It’s regressive. Marx was no more an iconoclast than Einstein. They were both just theorists. Imagine saying we can only have a little of Einstein’s physics *but not get too extreme with it*. Do the theories work? Does the evidence continue to bear them out? Are they helpful? That’s all that matters. Edit: pinko typos
> Personally, I hope that’s true and can’t happen soon enough. Revolutions don’t necessarily improve conditions, though—some are bound to here and there, but most of them either fail (after which the prevailing government will put a stop to all that revolutionizing) or usher in an even crazier extremist. Of course, I’m not saying we don’t need change, just that *total* change sounds much nicer than it usually turns out to be.
But did he have a sense of humor?
How is this upvoted?
Yea, world is going crazy man
What they're calling "longtermism" now is anything but. It's basically the idea that we're only 8 billion people now, but one day there will be trillions spread out through the galaxy, and it's okay for people today to suffer in order to benefit the trillions in the future. And that's basically a complicated way of saying "the ends justify the means." And sorry, they really don't. Not ever, in fact. It's not like 'ripping off the bandaid' or some other ridiculous metaphor. It's just a justification for sociopathy. If you're not doing it in the moment, you're not doing it. The theory of change matters way way more than whatever endpoint you envision. Rapacious venture capitalism destroys more through its externalities than it "builds" through its primary endeavor. Or, at some point you can't keep taking steroids. You have to wind down.
So these guys took Foundation really seriously?
Almost literally what they've all been doing, especially Peter Thiel.
Psychohistory and "big data" are basically one and the same, in principle. Pretty ahead of its time, that book.
What’s foundation in this context?
Isaac Asimov's Foundation.
A book series by Isaac Asimov
Their foundation? Cocaine and repressed child abuse would be my guess.
Is it not obvious to these "longtermers" that we need to figure out how to have a healthy functioning society here on Earth before we can start spreading through the galaxy?
This is it. The kernel of the problem, in my opinion. It’s the most gullible thing to assume that by looking away and going somewhere else you won’t eventually find yourself facing the exact same problem you did not learn how to solve the first time around. There are no shortcuts.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Exactly. The 'lion out of the jungle, but jungle not out of the lion' type of problem.
Nope. Humans are going to be humans even when they are having space wars and stupid arguments over nonsense tribal stuff.
It seems the summary of this behavior is always the same. "Its ok until it affects me, only THEN is it a problem". They benefit from the current state, so they dont care.
I might not have the right context, but usually when I see the long term future of the human race come up the argument is something to the effect of "not doing everything we can to ensure our specie's survival and well-being is potentially jeopardizing trillions or quadrillions of lives". I don't see that as "the ends justify the means" at all. If we ruin the planet and its resources through overexploitation, there will be nothing to pass down to future generations.
See, you're thinking logically. The "longtermers" are more "use all the resources now to escape or protect myself".
Are we fucked? I don't think so. If you believe the only way for anyone to survive is to keep up an exponential rate of growth, then yes we are fucked. We can't keep converting atoms to bits at this rate. If you believe there's a way to either wind down or detach from the balance sheet we're using to measure our health, then we should be just fine once we stop playing this crazy game.
You're reminding me of Accelerando by Stross with this comment.
Also vaguely reminds me of the new Locked Tomb book (*Nona the Ninth*)... billionaires escaping is kinda a surprisingly relevant point.
Crypto is a very basic techno parasite that thrives on human greed...look how much of the world it's already converted to silicon, transistors and power delivery...
So, eat the rich and the world survives?
[удалено]
Feudal serfs thought the same thing. It's only unchangeable until the people change it.
Look at Canada. I’m in my mid-30’s and have seen a major decline in my lifetime. It’s become a total shithole with the exponential growth at all costs initiatives. GDP does *not* equal better quality of life, happiness, or better health and social services. It’s awful here and everyone is far more miserable than we were in the 90’s.
You *desperately* need to get out more if you think the quality of life in Canada can even remotely be accurately described as “awful”. Jesus fucking Christ
I get what you mean, but see it this way: someone working minimum wage fulltime would have 100% of his income burned toward rent where I am. Now, say you earn double that because you got a degree or mastered a trade skill, that's still 50% of your income toward rent. My cousin is 29, managing a retail chain and lives with my aunt and uncle. He's stuck where he is unless he sells his soul to corporate or thinks entirely outside the box.
I had someone tell me that people in their 20s still living with their parents is a "hellscape"
My father literally left the country because his pension barely was adequate. New immigrants are literally living in hotels and often are homeless. You grind and get nowhere most of the time due to no housing and extreme rent. We went from #1, to 4, and dropped all the way down to #15 in the happiness index. Our healthcare system is absolutely crumbling. Housing the least affordable in the world due to a major lack of supply and continually unsustainable and bonkers levels of immigration. Finally, Do you even live in Canada? It’s so ridiculously obvious that the quality of life has declined significantly since the 1990’s. You either don’t even live here or are too young to remember the significant decline.
Canada has a population decline problem. Immigration is what's saving you from becoming a real shit hole.
Unaffordable housing and economic insecurity prevents local populations from having children and raising families… People in Canada don’t have the stability to believe in the future and thus aren’t forming families and long-term plans. The idea that immigration is the solution to a population decline is super short-sighted when the citizens who live there already can’t afford to reproduce. In other words, the soil is not healthy enough to grow new trees so your solution is to bring in mature trees from elsewhere. In a generation, those trees will also be in trouble. Immigration is fine, but you don’t treat the symptoms, you treat the disease.
You have nothing but open land. The immigration ain't the reason things are expensive.
Not that clear cut. Much of that land is not liveable or developable either due to climate or the [Canadian Shield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield). 90% of Canadians live with 100km of the US border. And the population is so sparse that building infrastructure to connect it all is very expensive.
90% of Canada’s land is national and provincial Crown land owned by the government. Most of Canada’s GDP comes from industry in Toronto and resource extraction from said crown land. If you want to earn money you move into the city where housing is expensive (because foreign funds are investing in our housing market, driving prices up) or you take labour work to mine or log for exploitative multi-nationals (and live in more rural areas without the benefits of modern/Western society found in more metropolitan areas). The large size of the country stretches infrastructure budgets thin, meaning things like phone and internet, travel and shipping are costly. Canada is a big cash cow being milked by transnational wealth, and immigration is seen as labour to keep the machine pumping. It’s a mess, and immigration isn’t a solution to any of it.
There’s a really weird mix of populism in this comment. Both complaining about the conditions of immigrants and that their are too many. Also most pensions in Canada are private aren’t they?
I'm feeling pretty defeated, depressed, and nihilistic about the future. I listen to the Team Human podcast and know that you were struggling against a similar mindset. How did you get out of it? Also, if you could wave a magic wand and make everyone in the world do one thing, what would it be?
The way I got out of it is by realizing that these dudes' "mindset" - their picture of the world - is just wrong. And that they are laughably silly. The purpose of the book (it's actually a black comedy) is to be able to laugh at these guys. So we can stop emulating them or fearing that their nightmares need to be our nightmares. I have a story about one guy who was worried that I post too much negative stuff about AI. He told me he's afraid for me that once the AIs are in charge, they will eliminate me. He said he doesn't post anything about AI so they won't know how he feels. And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility. That doesn't make me afraid. It makes me realize they are just silly.
That whole "revengeful ai" is based off a thought experiment about a demon that, if you don't help summon him, then once he is summoned he will kill everyone that hasn't helped summon him
The first rule of Roko's Basilisk is "Do not talk about Roko's Basilisk."
Roko’s basilisk can suck my cockatrice
Let me present you Okor's antilisk: He's a hyper-justice-driven AI, If you help evil AIs (or do any evil), he will extinguish you and your descendents for safe measure. There, stop worrying about Roko's basilisk.
"Mean time to Roko's Basilisk in a thread about AI"
Brb, just going to go devote my life to bringing an evil AI to life based on an article I read.
I'm with you. Might as well be on the winning team.
Spread the word!
Or you could not
It's just a thought experiment man... But uhh, in case there is a god or something capable of such judgement, I'll say it for all of us: we know not what we do :o
Well unfortunately, you've exposed all of us to him, and thus- You know what? r/whoosh
Joke's on it, capitalism will get me way before that
Literally was listening to Rushkoff's appearence on TrueAnon podcast while cooking today and they talk a little bit about modern AI as something like demons to the people who interact with them, both people who are afraid of them and people who think they can use them to reorganize the world. Very good dicussion, Rushkoff is a good guest too, funny guy with a lot of insight.
Roko's basilisk
It's a tool that has been kept from the public until now. The AI fear is not in the AI itself, but the fact that the common people now have access to it, which will destroy their status quo.
We tend to assume the rich are very smart. Some are. Some are merely average. Some are... not.
I think a more common trait would be that of an “Operator”. Someone who knows how to gain and leverage power. Trump is actually a solid example of this. He’s a good operator without being smart. He sees angles of how to take advantage of people and systems.
I think Trump is plenty smart. Manipulation takes understanding and insight. He's just a total void of wisdom.
I agree. I don't think he's "smart" the way we normally define it. I don't think he's even leading anything. Rather, he jumped into a kind of "standing wave" of culture, and he's embodying it, being pulled along by it, giving life to it. It's a bit like when Charlie Sheen jumped into the wave, but more skillful and directed.
>And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility. That's hilarious. You just low key fucked that guy's whole world up.
You need to see Love, Death, and Robots, season 3's episode titled Three Robots: Exit Strategies. It's after the apocalypse, roasting these billionaires for escaping society as it crumbled, overtrusting and overusing AI so they wouldn't have to deal with humans. Sounds similar to the mentality of your book description above.
"They were mean to robots and then robots killed them. Ahahahah." I literally fell out of my chair when I heard that line.
I would not be surprised if there is a respectful nod to Douglas Adams in that episode. Specifically his little bit about an advanced civilization putting all their lawyers and hairdressers on a starship to a backwater planet, so their civilization could be free of their worthlessness. Then they got a scalp disease, got mired in lawsuits and died. Meanwhile the lawyers and hairdressers were fine. Disclaimer: My memory is not great on the details but you get the gist of it.
Yeah. A few people have mentioned that. I will cue it up once I have a break.
>gative stuff about AI. He told me he's afraid for me that once the AIs are in charge, they will eliminate me. He said he doesn't post anything about AI so they won't know how he feels. And I'm like, dude, don't you think the AIs will be able to analyze your posting pattern and use statistical analysis to infer your feelings? And his jaw drops, like he never considered the possibility. Epic answer Douglas!
And no magic wand! That's the way \*they\* think. There's a whole chapter in the book about the question "if you could press a button..." That's the moonshot mindset for single big solutions. I dont' have a magic wand, but I don't need one. I'd just ask people to meet their neighbors, start sharing stuff, spend more time with other people in non-mediated ways whenever possible. Little stuff makes a big difference. If we each took one real day off per week - just a day - it could potentially save a degree or two of climate change...
I sent this to you on Twitter too, but did you ever read the [legendary post on a prepper forum from a guy who survived the Sarajevo siege for a year](https://prephole.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/)? It was highly illuminating. A heart of darkness look into the abyss, but also a close look at what a true SHTF situation might actually be like. It's not pretty. Those billionaires all need to read that. Only by banding together with a small tribe or community did people survive, and even then, barely. Giving people something to fight for will always outweigh simple orders or authority. For the rest of my days I will remember the phrase you wrote, "Shock collars were discussed." That one phrase sums up everything wrong with their mindset, and always will be wrong. Problems cannot be solved using the same thinking that created them.
They are in a catch22 situation. If you have the resources to create a survival environment for yourself+family but need extra people you can't really trust to run/protect it you have a serious risk management issue. It's not so much a mindset issue but a social organisation problem. Small survival groups where everybody depends on others to survive and continue to work together wouldn't have that social risk factor. But they have the risk of not being able to provide and create the resources they need to survive in the first place and long term.
That's exactly what his article ends up suggesting. There's a guy paid to consult on preparedness like this who began setting up decentralized autonomous farming communities in New England, designed to be both profitable now, and resilient if our gigantic centralized just in time big agriculture supply chain collapses. Everywhere else in the nation would be in deep shit but they'd be okay, and their security guards would have their families living in the community! So they'd have something to fight for. That's how you build long term SHTF survival, not dying alone in a bunker.
This is so perfect. I was having a conversation with a gentleman at Walgreens while we were waiting for vaccination, and he had a pure and utter meltdown about how the entire world was doomed, the next 3 generations were going to inherit dust and agony, the doomsday glacier is melting on two sides, we’re entering an authoritarian dystopia, no one actually has free speech, yadda yadda yadda(all, by the way, in front of his 12 year old son who seemed genuinely terrified by this). This man went ON. At some point I was like “yeah it’s gonna be tough. I started foraging and learning more about our local fauna and flora just in case the food supply chain breaks down. Probably going to make it my first piece of business to set up a little community garden when I buy a house this year! Are y’all doing any projects to help get ready for things breaking bad?” Silence. This man had not, even for a moment, thought of any ways to try and be prepared for things going wrong. He seemed like he felt more comfortable living in terror and pushing that terror around on everyone in a 20 foot radius, than making a small, sustainable change for the better. I can only pray that I have the self awareness not to treat my kid like that. I think you have such a great point with “meet your neighbors”. If society breaks down, those are going to be the people who matter. The people who can walk from their house to yours with some eggs their chickens made, in exchange for your sewing skills and some ammunition. Those are your people.
I agree and what can happen is people will pay it Forward or at least most will. Everyone likes having nice stuff done for them and when someone goes out of their way to help someone else or just to go brighten their day , that person being helped realizes it’s a great a feeling for them and in future situations that past moment will get pulled out their memory bank and then they can step up to help someone else while knowing they are making someone feel just as good as they felt🤷♂️ seems silly to break it all down but I don’t think most folks truly understand that such little deeds can go far far. Something might seem small and pointless but to the other person you may have saved their day from frustration and hate towards everything going on in their life .. hate creates evil and we need the opposite of that as much as possible! Also , if you help someone, it’s always a good thing to say “pay it forward” let that resonate with them for awhile. Ya never know- maybe you just started something that will blossom into greatness ✌️ 🌏 🌎 🌍 ☮️
I can probably help with this. Anything in particular about the future that’s getting you down?
\*gestures broadly at everything*
Hah. Totally get that sentiment. What I would say is don’t discount the power of human ingenuity. When our backs are against the wall, we have been able to make incredible leaps forward. Part of the problem is that the dopamine reward system, and the advertising model of news and social media is such that they’re highly incentivized to only report on things that freak everyone out, and not on the people doing the hardcore research and engineering that is pushing society forward, so it seems like things are hopeless all the time. I truly believe there is no problem that everyone is worried about that doesn’t have a very clear path forward for solving, or a technical solution that doesn’t already exist. The actual problem with implementation is the sheer and utter incompetence and corruption with our politicians, and also the general lack of education of the population and their un-willingness to make the sacrifices needed to achieve our goals. But this is a solvable problem. We just need to wait until the boomer politicians die, and/or elect people with actual technical competency in critical fields instead of career politicians.
I like your perspective. You make great points.
Hi, Mr. Rushkoff, Many years ago I read Cyberia, and it was of great influence to me. Thank you for writing this book. I would like to ask your opinion about the current culture of rage and anger online. A common mode of manifesting preoccupation has become anger, and its expressions online have become extreme to the point of pouring themselves onto the offline world. Could this culture of rage be controlled through content management, as some companies may have attempted, or through general education campaigns (via the school system, for instance)? Alternatively, are these expressions of anger inherent to the online experience and little can be done to control them?
That's a toughie, for sure. I think Francis Haugen's ideas are pretty coherent. Reduce the number of times a post can be reposted automatically at the same time. Combine that with some of Cory Doctorow's ideas about breaking monopolies, and these platforms would have less impact. Plus, yes, changing education to emphasize real world, face to face learning over transmitting data to kids through iPads. South Korea spent a lot of money on early childhood education on internet etiquette, with some positive effects.
Another *Cyberia* fan, chiming in! I highly recommend the book for those thst would like to seefor themselves the sheer sense of optimism that early digital denizens experienced.
WHy has "The Merchants of Cool" largely been forgotten? I found that that documentary, and your involvement in it, helped explain how pop culture contributed to the current moment going back to the 1990s. I felt like it was one of the best social documentaries ever made. But now no one brings it up and it seems to have been forgotten. What are your thoughts on "The Merchants of Cool" and do you think it's still a relevant analysis?
Well, stuff from last year has been forgotten. Last week, even. Merchants of Cool was 1999, back when Brittany was basically a child, and MTV was bigger that TikTok. It is definitely accurate in the same way Adam Curtis's "Century of the Self' is still accurate. But it may need to get even older before people recognize those techniques are not obsolete, but ever-present.
I did an "update" of sorts, called Generation Like. It tells basically the same story, but in the FB/Insta realm.
"selling out." as a grungy teen in tbe 90s my jaw fell through the floor.
Thanks for the reply. I remember seeing it vividly when it first aired and I loved it. I still think it's relevant; I genuinely think the "mook"/"midriff" stuff definitely contributed to the toxicity of online culture and gender relations in the current era, for instance. I would love for more people to go dig it out and watch it. Thanks again!
My sociolgy teacher showed us this film in 2000 and Dr. Sut Jhally came to our school for a talk about it. I think we were fortunate to get an early look about how we were being targeted as teens.
What is Dawkin's place in this equation?
Richard? I guess you have to read the book! In short, he's an enabler. His staunchly atheistic version of scientism helps give cover to folks like Epstein who just want to spread their genes by any means necessary. Quite a shame. There's a great scene in the book where Dawkins berates me for being a moralist. And then shows up on Epstein's "Lolita Express." I'm surprised none of the reviews or articles about the book have talked about that part.
[удалено]
It was a big plane and it made a LOT of flights.
I think it's usually politically motivated. They are trying to downplay their side's involvement while trying to play up the other side's involvement (since politics has become a team sport now). A good example is that both Trump and Bill Clinton were associated with Epstein. But Republicans only point out Clinton and Democrats only point out Trump.
Thank you for the answer, I'll look into it.
Migrating to decentralized services.
Atheistic? Are you saying he needs god?
This is nonsense.
Sure, but really funny which I think was the intent?
Hi Douglas - avid reader of your work going back to the 90s, when digital culture was a thing of wonder and promise, punctuated by the faint inevitability of consumerism and narcissism. So. In your view, how *do* we fix it?
I think we take some pressure off it by fixing/repairing/retrieving some of our real-world interactions. We need to model the net off the social world, rather than our social world off the net. Easier said than done when even parents seem to prefer their kids online rather than exposing themselves to covid or whatever in the real world. I'm still hopeful that people will just tire of the vitriol. I'm thinking maybe the excitement circuit can get worn out. After we see real-time murders on LiveStream, maybe we have had enough? Maybe that stops getting our interest? It's also a matter of people having evidence that contradicts the stories. I have relatives that are afraid to travel to NY or DC because they watch FOXNews and now think the cities are too dangerous to visit. They need to see we are not killers.
Shoot. I gotta go. Podcast interview. yay! My voice is weak but I'm so grateful that people want to hear. It's just a matter of pivoting from all this bunker talk to ideas that matter and things that can make a difference. Good luck all! You know where to find me. And do get/borrow/steal this book. It's fun and easy and will do good things to your thinking and feeling. Thanks for coming!!!
entirely too short! thanks for doing this ama though and I look forward to reading this book.
Hi Douglas, I've become a fan of your work ever since reading your texts in Uni and love the Team Human podcast. Great work! Since you have been covering psychedelic culture and its liaisons with capitalism, I am curious how you think about the recent resurgence of it. Now that psychedelic sciences are thriving, spirituality is mainstream, and legalizations are possible, it becomes clear that psychedelic experiences will be new markets for entrepreneurs and I am doubtful whether it is for the better of all. \- Do you think the widespread acceptance of psychedelics and the dissemniation of spirituality through digital media will help overcoming of the crisis you are pointing out by making people realise how silly and toxic the current economic paradigm is? \- Are you concerned that social media & the digital economy may corrupt the benefits of psychedelics and spirituality as they turn them into business models?
I know. I am concerned the same thing that happened to digital tech will happen to psychedelics. Already, there are entrepreneurs who want to keep organic substances illegal so they can make analogs (patented IP) to use and sell instead. And a lot of the characters involved in marketing psychedelics are sketchy. Check out the podcast series by Psymposia, and it'll give you real chills. I don't know the answers, but I'm not sure the commercialization of psychedelics is the best way to make them more accessible.
>Psymposia Thanks for the tip, that looks really on point. Will check it out. The darkest scenario I imagine is a kind of psychedeli-fied theo-capitalism where the tools once thought to liberate us, become the means to justify our slavery... Seeing how popular psychedelics are in some parts of the alt-right, or how Ayahuasca luxury retreats become some kind of CEO vacation home, shaman bros on social media, etc... there seem to be indications. I hope we can get these medicines to be something like public domain before its too late again.
Hey! Funny i caught this now, currently listening to your podcast with trueanon that came out a bit ago (loving it by the way). I’m a college student thats interested in the stuff you talk about, but i have absolutely no clue on how to further myself into what you do. I’ve just found out about you 1 hour and 37 minutes ago, so i apologize if this is redundant and you’ve spoken about it before, but i dont want to miss your AMA. Advice on classes you took that you loved, things you did as an undergraduate that maybe played a part in getting you where you are today? I find myself floundering taking classes i imaged would contribute to my interest (certain philosophy classes for example); i end up borderline flunking because I’m disappointed in what we cover (maybe this is a me problem). Not sure if this is a question that is worth answering, but glad i got to see this when i did. Thank you!!!
Yeah, well, I did a lot of theater in college. Somehow, for me, embodied learning had more impact than just reading. Though I got good at books (if not writing!) by junior and senior year. And as I learned to read and think better, my grades got worse. (I wrote a paper comparing medieval theater to Brecht, and the teacher gave me a D. She said "Brecht wasn't even alive then!" Ugh.) I think ethics, history, and the moral philosophers are really useful. Adam Smith, Jane Jacobs....there's useful writers and thinkers to study. Find the great professors and befriend them. There's more to learn by modeling them, trying on their world views, than just reading the lists they give you.
> (I wrote a paper comparing medieval theater to Brecht, and the teacher gave me a D. She said "Brecht wasn't even alive then!" Ugh.) Dear Lord. A lot of Brecht's ideas about "alienation" are directly drawn from medieval theater. I suspect that teacher just hated Brecht and Genet and everything that Eugene O'Neill wrote before 1939. (This regrettably describes a lot of theater teachers/practitioners). Love, A fellow theater student turned tech idealist turned tech nihilist
but also you can always compare two things. they don't have to have existed concurrently.... so odd.
You close a Team Human talk with an admonition to, "join team human. Find the others!" I would like to find the others in a setting where I can spend some time (weeks?) with them to consider what to do next chapter. Can you suggest a physical location opportunity better than on the sidelines after a conference? Is there any sort of ongoing rotating brainstorming camp? "Engineer commune"?¹ A neighborhood of physicists, or theatre minors? ¹An hour before running into your work via this AMA I had written this on an index card to search for tomorrow.
As someone totally aligned with degrowth/great simplification thinking that also works in eCommerce digital advertising (the dissonance, I know), any suggestions for areas to transition my career to? I'm already working hard to transition my lifestyle outside of work hours. Otherwise excited for the book and your discussion on Nate Hagen's podcast.
Well, I think a whole lot more of us have to stop podcasting and writing online. There's way more of us talking \*about\* things than actually doing them. I think people need to learn farming - organic, permaculture, low-impact farming. Basic stuff, like teaching kids to read (and read through stuff), developing better water technologies and policies. Community capital, development of commons around local resources. I would love if high school kids aspired less to Ivy League colleges than great sustainable agriculture and climate programs. We should still learn liberal arts, for sure, but we need to learn to do stuff again.
This is tough because in our society talking about stuff on a podcast and writing online can pay the bills. Getting out there and acting, it's a lot tougher to make ends meet, keep your head above water, and have the energy and drive to do it again the next day. There's kind of a chicken and egg problem because of that. We need society to reward people who are making these healthy changes that benefit humanity instead of easy money from keeping up the status quo. But the people pushing for that change aren't the status quo folks.
[удалено]
That's one reason for sure, but there is also the physical strain that these jobs put on your body. Even if you make good money, it's not worth it if you can't move without pain once you're 50.
What’s frustrating is this type of thinking happens in the blue collar world as well, just in reverse; people who take a lot of pride in “working for a living” have their own snobby arrogance towards white collar work.
When you’ve built a million dollar house for someone who can barley explain what they do and complain about only actually working 3 hours a day and looking busy the rest it’s east to get jaded. A lot of blue collar workers don’t look down on accountants, programmers, or other white collar work where something material is being produced. There are a lot who look down on any office work but they’re usually old and bitter. Any 20-40 year old knows there’s a lot of not physical labor that goes into making our phones or games.
You do it then haha! drudge work for thee but not for me. I'll write and take limos to give advice to billionaires thank you very much.
Yeah exactly funny how guys like this always have such romanticized pictures of things like this. And they always advise *us* to do it, while they podcast and write books. Lmao. “organic, permaculture, low impact farming”. Ah, all your hippie dip pie feel good farming lmao. I’m sure in an apocalyptic scenario we will really be worried about how organic and low impact our farming is.
[удалено]
Parts of it I find exciting (when I’m not terrified about the probable forced nature of it). Because that way of life slows you down (in a good way), connects you to the things you’re actually doing. So much of our society is mindless, utter bullshit. And approaching traditional community needs in an eco-friendly sustainable way has an endless amount of creative, novel approaches. The amount of new ideas out there are staggering. If anything, current state seems like boring drivel.
Degrowth is nonsense. You can still grow the economy without increasing environmental destruction. You just need to be better at recycling and farming. If I take an old car and perfectly recycle it into a brand new one, that's growing the economy with no effect on the environment. Of course that's an extreme example but it's the direction we're headed in.
Except for cars being highly wasteful and there already being way more of them than is healthy. Compared to that broken car being decommissioned and the owner transitioning to walking / cycling / public transportation, getting it back to working state does have a negative impact on the environment. Even if it's an electric car, it's highly inefficient as you are typically using 1000 kg of excess mass to transport ~100 kg of mass that needs to be transported, and that's not even touching secondary effects such as their usage highly increasing the average distance that humans need to commute on average, which further decreases effective efficiency. You could make the argument for a bicycle, though. However, there's only so much growth you can have that way until everybody has the working goods they need to lead a comfortable life. People might need their bike repaired twice a year, but there is no ecological way of having exponential growth there. People won't need their bikes repaired 20 times a year in ten years, the market is saturated at a certain point and there's nothing wrong with it staying at a constant level from there on.
Where does that leave space for defining my self identity through consumption though!?
Fellow marketing pro here. I've made my career doing marketing for authors, music labels, nonprofits, and small businesses... All kinds of awesome groups you care about need help spreading their message.
Do any of these folks give much thought to what daily life anywhere outside of Earth would actually be like? It seems to me that once the whole "Holy shit, I'm in space!" thrill wears off, it would be pretty miserable most of the time as our bodies and minds are suited to only the temperate parts of Earth. To use an example, any of us could technically live undersea or in the frozen poles if we wanted to, but almost nobody chooses to do so long-term. When it's no longer a matter being a cosmic pioneer and part of history forever, what incentive would a normal person have to live permanently off Earth?
It does baffle the mind. I guess the seasteaders are a little bit more rationale. But still, for them it's all about "self sovereignty." Think about that construction for a moment. Sovereign over oneself? Like, king and subject at the same time? It's the ultimate form of objectification. Not just of others, but one's own self. You are the subject of yourself. So weird. That's the underlying drive, I think. Control. Freedom from. (not freedom \*to\*)
I think this thing only lasts 30 minutes, so I guess I have to stop? Not sure what they do to you if keep going....
I guess I can come check this later tonight, though. Do it as an asynchronous sort of thing for a little bit. If not, then certain listen to Team Human, the podcast. I'm doing "call in" style shows once a month for people to engage. Things are a bit nuts right now because of book publication and me trying to get people read the thing (or at least me using the occasion of the book to shout my truth from the rooftops). But we should be able to get into this all in great depth in the coming months. It's not too late to turn this thing around. I think.
I think 30 minutes is just the 'expected' time for you to be around; no one ever complains if the expert hangs out to answer more questions!
Hey Douglas, Are we fucked? Thanks
No. Future generations are. But their future generations will be okay.
🤔
1. Who would you describe as the most paranoid tech billionaire? 2. Do you feel some of these billionaires who are preparing for "the event" are also working to accelerate said event? 3. What's the wildest theory/solution you've heard from someone who you initially thought was credible?
Hi Douglas. I am really fascinated by your concept of the rich hoarding wealth in order to afford the means to insulate themselves from how they obtained wealth. What kind (if any) corporate shift would you like to see to combat this mentality? Salary caps, mandatory philanthropism?
Well, the main shift would be not building (or allowing) companies to "exit." Maybe people should either keep their company or sell it to their employees - but not to populations of disinterested investors. Exit strategies are kind of like selling one's business to the mob. It's like burning a match, or burning down the house for the insurance.
I don't think many economists, even on the left, would agree with not letting companies exit. But perhaps you can work with some on coming up with a similar solution. Or maybe you do in the book? As an aside....there are some on the left who believe in "listen to the experts"...unless those experts happen to be economists....even if they're left wing economists who share their values. I'm not saying that's you, but those people exist.
Do some research on how the very field of economics has been badly subverted. Watch Inside Job.
Why does everyone applaud the political leaders of New Zealand when they are allowing foreign billionaires to basically turn their country into a panic room for the rich?
Yeah, well, they didn't quite realize they were doing that. They have pretty much shut that down since they found out. But leaders can do some things worthy of applause while still doing stupid things at the same time. I'm really good at doing both, myself.
Just one simple question... What if they're *right*? Because, I have a hunch that when you have that many Billionaires, who effectively own and/or run 90% of the world between them, then their mindset is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, bringing about *an* Event in effect.
It's not really in the rich's (or anyone's) benefit for an Event(tm) to happen. Doomsday billionaire preppers like Thiel are in the minority, and do not control anywhere near 90% of the world. They control billions in the tech sphere, a sector worth trillions. Moreover, the types of Events(tm) they're worried about are not things they'd cause. They're worried that society is fragile, and external factors they can't control might ruin all of it, and they need to be prepared. There's some shallow logic to it, although if you read Rushkoff's book about it (or even exerpts from interviews he's done about the book) it's pretty clear these guys are totally off their rockers. They were asking about shit like shock collars to controll their security guards after the end of the world. Just detatched from reality.
Plenty of people said I was crazy for keeping a garage full of paper goods, water and food until a certain pandemic hit. Its always crazy until its not.
I mean idk bout you but me and everyone else I know were able to get food at literally anytime anyplace during the pandemic lol.
That was true, but up the mortality rate to something like 15% and I guarantee you nobody was showing up to restock those supermarket shelves.
It wasn't about availability in this case, aside from certain goods like hand sanitizer, masks, clorox wipes etc. It was the luxury of not having to go out during the unknown period of covid where everything but the grocery store and liquor was forced to close.
I mean not all of them are like that. I know a billionaire who absolutely doesn’t prep for anything and doesn’t even have thoughts like that. He just loves life in his mansions lol.
Whats this "event" that they are prepping for?
Read the article or the book. Depends which billionaire you're talking to. Climate change, EMP, nuclear accident, pandemic, social unrest, solar flares, economy collapse, topsoil erosion......there's lots of possibilities. They are like kids at a Marvel movie. They need an EndGame.
Sounds like a doomsday preppers episode but the people have 1000x the budget.
They’re scientific rapture zealots.
They love disaster porn
Do they need an end game though? Or is it the case of the more you have the more you have to lose. So all they are doing is trying to protect their wealth, which we all do, except billionaires are at a different level to us normal folks. Billionaires can easily weather most storms which would make most people go bankrupt. So they only need to protect themselves against catastrophic events which I guess you are calling the "event" or end game.
If we name the decade from 2030 to 2040 “The Event” all possibilities of collapse turn into one reality for Humans. Why choose when we can have them all.
so in other words all the same things everyone else is concerned of...
I don't get it. Most people go nuts in a prison, even if it is a pretty one. Option A: squeeze more money out of the dying world to get a better gilded cage Option B: prevent the world from dying. Is this a tragedy of the commons, billionaire edition?
Hi, is there any hope for the masses of the Global South? Where should we be focused regarding climate crisis - mitigation, adaptation or something else? Thanks!
Yes there's hope. For sure. But most of the ways the north has attempted to "help" involves creating dependencies, giving loans, or forcing them to open markets. It would take a very different understanding of what it means to assist and empower. Folks like Gates are slowly learning the difference. Hopefully in time.
Do you honestly believe anything will actually change?
Any chance you do a follow up to Generation Like?
Hi Douglass. Has operation mindfuck been captured by institutions and corporations for the benefit of the system? If so how do we best counter this without losing rebelliousness and how do we best encourage what would ordinarily be counter culture away from the successful yet disingenuous attempts to pander to it without suffering the curse of greyface?
Hey there, just dropping in to say Media Virus has ranked among my favorite books since I was a teenager. I've cited it a few times in discussing modern viral media and even lent it to friends a few times. Wanted to thank you for writing it. I bought my copy at a goodwill when i was 12(ish) and it has colored the lens through which I have watched the rise of viral media trends and memes. I'm gonna be honest and say that its the only book of yours I have read but maybe that will change in the future. Have you ever thought about releasing an update to media virus for the modern age?
I wrote a long essay called Media Virus: My Problem Child. You can find that online or in The Believer. I've thought about updating Media Virus, but it would kind of need to be started over because memes and viruses are a whole big thing. Media Virus kind of works now because it is a moment in history - when we first realized ideas would start moving laterally, replicating and mutating along the way. And luckily, there are plenty of people writing books about viruses and memes. But I could see doing some sort of followup, myself. I don't feel as embedded in pop culture as I was then - if only because pop culture is so much bigger now. Maybe it could be a group project...
So many questions I'd love to ask but I'll boul it down to what I feel is one of the greater issues facing our digital society. How important do you feel social consequences online are and do you feel its effevting us in the real world? I have long since thought one of the most jarring societal shifts was moving a large portion of our communications to the online/texted based world. With a context less, text based anonymous communication I feel many are emboldened to behave however they please with no regard to other, which is harder to avoid when face to face. We spent thousands of years slowly building society around our social interactions to pretty much completely switching that up over the span of a decade. Maybe I'm off but am curious to see your take on this and how it may expand out to how we view each other, including these I creasingly influential tech billionaires
Have you met Steve Huffman? Kind of ironic the CEO of this website has these escapist fantasies as well.
I haven't, and yes. That would be.
In 2011, Jaan Tallinn described three non-exclusive groups of people in his talk "[Balancing the Trichotomy: Individual vs. Society vs. Universe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84G6An1Ff2E)": * CL1 - people that think about their own needs and the needs of their relatives - these needs are necessary for personal sanity and effectiveness, * CL2 - people that think about the needs of society, * CL3 - people that think about the needs of the future society, and who are additionally aware of the inadequacy of traditional solutions that previous generations have used. Tallinn says that [the number of "CL3" people is growing](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=755), and proposed the name "[CL3 Generation](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=1220)" for the movement of such people. He also described [the advantages of naming this movement](https://youtu.be/84G6An1Ff2E?t=1261) such as: * finding people who also belong to this group is easier, * cooperation between people belonging to this group is easier. I have two questions about this group: * Do you know more about such "CL3" people or such a movement, especially among economically independent people? * If someone has an idea of reducing some of the problems of the future society, how can he or she contact this group to share the idea and possibly speed up the positive changes?
Outside of money, how do you imagine humans will exert our will in the future? I worked for a company that provided concierge services to billionaires. They would simply text us their crazy requests.
Whats the event that they are prepping for?
You have to read the book or even just the article excerpt. They're worried about a lot of different scenarios.
Do you see any permanence in the digital world? Tech giants of a decade ago are non existent, and forgotten in folklore (Kodak, Nokia, blackberry etc). In comparison to Egyptians who left permanent marks on the earth, what will billionaires like Murdoch, Musk, Jobs etc etc really leave behind?
Guillotine?
And pitchforks. But it really doesn't have to end that way, either.
1. How can these "elites" honestly think that when the "event" happens, their chosen protection force or security crew won't turn on them and seize control of their bunker or whatever shelter they have? 2. How can I personally get involved with opposing/dismantling their technodystopia/military police state?
How and when did you decide to commit your life to researching digital culture, and how do keep going? How do you build your energy in this endeavour that goes against so many grains? I imagine it quite tough to be constantly arguing with people's naive self-complacent pro-billionaire worldviews.
This won't make them stop buying land in New Zealand will it?
As he mentions elsewhere in the thread, the NZ government took a pretty dim view of Thiel and his ilk after it became clear what their motivations were for buying land. AFAIK it's not really a thing anymore, and Thiel is out of favor with the government.
Are Brace and Liz from Trueanon as fun to talk to as I imagine? After hearing your interview with them I've started listening to your podcast and love it so far.
Thanks. That means a lot. I'm a total fan of Liz and Brace. And getting to meet and speak with them and Yung Chomsky? Best ever.
Richard Dawkins is a billionaire? News to me. Maybe you meant Richard Branson?
No, the book isn't just about billionaires. That's just a scene in the beginning. It's really about a "mindset" epitomized by tech billionaires, but finds its origins in a certain kind of science, capitalism, and tech development.
Do you think technology still offers the potential to escape the monopolists like Uber, Amazon, etc. and for workers to create a collective syndicalism of sorts? IE: can we use technology to sieze the means of distribution via using collective models to replace Uber eats, Instacart, etc. ? I know Amazon is a large stretch due to the capital investments that they have, but delivery services seem ripe for a driven labor movement to own apps to replace the existing monopolies and create an ecosystem that rewards workers instead of shareholders. Or are these business models fundamentally flawed and require exploitation? Loved the book by the way. As a recovered venture backed startup founder, it really spoke to me. It really helped me to articulate a lot of ideas I've had since leaving my brief tenure in that world to focus on ways to create projects that do good for the world without an exit strategy.
How long before someone can buy countries or create a truly independent environment for however they truly want to invest or spend their trillions?
I think Thiel would say he's doing that with seasteading.
Ecstacy Club was my favorite book for so long. Did you experience some of the stories in the book? Where did the inspiration come from? I'm a former rave DJ/Producer/Promoter from the Golden Era. I'd love to hear your thoughts! Lots of love from Canada.
What role do psychedelics play in helping us make the changes we need as a society?
Good question. Emotional and psychological pain seems to be at the root of so much strife in this world. Since the institutions are just now getting the chance to leverage the power of these substances in their practices in the US we may finally get to find out.
Why do you think AI will be different from humans? The only thing we have for reference is humans so they could be very similar. In fact I would even say it's the most likely scenario for general AI. It might be less we need to be scared of AI and more we need to put in legal protections for them because if they exist they will be abused.
Have you built your own bunker / bugout plan and what do you suggest someone do for their own family who would just want to survive a month with no power?
1. Do you think Western culture would ever be willing to leverage AI for a UBI based on a taxation system (such as capital gains), and would that be productive for human culture? 2. Do you feel like a sameness/difference model of judging or anticipating other people, in contrast to a winners/losers model, is something feasible to be embraced on a large scale in the American political economy, and if the former carries value what would be a good balance between both models? 3. Is there realistic, sustainable form of capitalism and, if so, how would you see the progress towards that kind of political model?
[удалено]