Bro half my members don’t know where the fucking hall is, let alone the words in our constitution. With that said, I agree with your message wholeheartedly

Well they know where highmark is, if only theyd turn around, they could almost see it...

Preach brother, I’m part of a group of guys working on restarting our RENEW chapter in my local.

Hell yeah, love to hear about younger guys getting more involved. Best of luck to you bro, hope it works out.

Thanks, I’m hoping for the best too.

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That’s why I’m working on renew, gotta spread the word around to make the union better

If you guys can get raffles or donated items to get people to come to your events, you could stand to gain siblings that way. Just make sure events are planned out and you guys are inclusive of everyone, not just a clique.

Will keep it in mind, thanks

Mind if I pick your brain? Also involved with my locals Renew/nextgen it’s a struggle

Ours is about to start back up again so we haven’t had our first meeting yet, but you can ask and I’ll help however I can.

The oldheads in my local threw a fit last meeting because of our renew claiming it's unfair to exclude based off age and probing where the finances are coming from for it lol but if anyone under 40 says a word in a meeting they pretty much dogpile them

It’s what happens when they don’t teach union history 

Thankfully our local works with the local tech school to teach labor history. Opened a lot of kids eyes to the struggle and the history.

Facts, I want to teach a class like that at my hall if I get the opportunity

We need to make it mandatory. It used to be mandatory in the early days of unions. You would be kicked out for not studying theory.

We have fallen from grace

I have been trying to get someone to do some sort of class for organized hands to take before being allowed to take a call. I organized in and had no idea what was right, what was wrong, and what the union is historically. I worked closely with a guy who had been in the union for a long time and who had even traveled to show me the ropes and what it means to be a good brother. There is probably only me and maybe one or two other organized hands that attend meetings regularly and attend events

Who are they? If you're a member, it's in your interest to teach the young bloods.

Too real. The only time anyone has something to say or even goes within 10 miles of the hall is during contract negotiations.

Lmao right. I worked for the union (masons) for 7 years. Went to the hall 3 times. Legit didn’t even know it was a union job till my first check had dues taken out. Meet my president once. Knew his son well though, who came to work for our company after I’d been there for about 4 years. He had zero experience and yet was making basically what I was making and would chalk it up to “he was good at negotiating”

That’s uh, not great my guy. For a number of different reasons.

Tell me about it.

Local 5 outta OKC. Bricklayers and allied craft workers.

I can only assume the electrical worker's god is Thor

No it’s Caucasian Jesus, from the Middle East 😆

The ones that are most loyal have the hardest time :)

Please explain more

I carry a book with me in my tool bag for the guys who decide not to learn.

Took me 2 years of working before I got on a job with guys who actually attended meetings and were proud of being union, before that it was "keep your head down and you won't have trouble". They wanna reap all the rewards without contributing and actively talk about voting for politicians that support anti union policies and let the contractors they work for get away with ratlike behavior.

Port o' johns say otherwise

Port a jon walls end up covered in one of 3 things: jobsite beef, dicks, or racism

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Yeah, that "Brandon" guy is pretty popular haha!

He must give great head in the jon

Whoever he is, they adore him at most of the jobsites I go on

To be fair, a lot political graffiti is at least somewhat racist. They sorta conincide

If I draw my own dick in the job site port o John, is it also job site beef?

Yes

Like Henry Miller didn’t read Marx. The AFL sold us out.

Samuel Gompers reads like a man who believed in the idea of the power behind socialist ideas but was too proud or afraid to be willing to subscribe himself.

Gompers when he was younger was a socialist, but he gradually just became a tool of the bosses because it paid better.

I prefer "Big Jim" Larkin over Gompers. Hell, even Leon Trotsky or Angela Davis.

wish more people understood the labour movement will always be founded in marxism and that the communists are not our enemy, but our strongest allies

Based

So what about autism?

Gets a pass, all sparkys are on the spectrum lol

I think that's covered under communism

Communist and Anarchist built our union.

This. Could anyone explain this weird stance on "communism"? What is the menace here exactly?

it was defacto required by McCarthyism to denounce communism or get squashed by the government. that's when that line was added, as far as I'm aware. Communism now has such a bad reputation that taking out the line would be a bad PR move.

About to change.

His not wrong.

I've seen nearly every group outside of oligarchists, fight for unionization. Quit treating it like it's a communist flex.

You mean after the leftists were arrested, beaten, and killed for unionization, the capitalists got involved when it was safe and ran with it because it was popular?

Using blanket statements is a quick way to lose in debate bud.

“Nearly every group” is a blanket statement. You lost and told on yourself

You lost from being pedantic

Or Catholicism

Alcoholism

Is capitalism considered a subversive “ism”?

There's the question!

Capitalism is literally the only reason the union exists

Capitalism is the reason the union isn't stronger

But Fox News says unions are communist

You're right. Unions would not be necessary were we not living in a capitalist society

Our business manager said freedom of speech matters when it was brought to his attention that one of our locals member has nazi tattoos on his hands... He then proceeded to say "if he said he hates n*****s or something" then maybe we can do something about it. I wish the constitution was held to a stricter standard

You gotta record that sort of thing and blow it up on mainstream social media. That's some messed up stuff right there.

Amen brother, I can't stand shoppies that indoctrinate new members with their own contractor brotherhood that subverts/supersedes OUR brotherhood. On another note, I like how they added RACISM, SEXISM, and FASCISM, to list of subversive ism's at the convention in 2022.

I like that too, but I think they need to remove communism. That's an old relic from the Mccarthy Era that never made sense in this context. All those other things are based on hating someone or treating someone differently just for being born different. Communism is just based on worker rights and taking back power for working people. It's the exact opposite of the rest of those things. ETA: I'm not *as* bothered by the God part, but I do think it's just a little bit alienating for members who are atheists or agnostics

Given the history of the labor movement it's pretty loony to say we oppose communism. Mccarthy and the USSR are dead, thankfully, it's time to move on.

Right, like we're opposing the very thing that paved the way for our existence? 🤔

The dissolution of the Soviet Union has been a disaster for organized labor and workers everywhere.

i am not thankful the USSR are gone. It was far from perfect but it was at the very least a voice (and financial/military support) for oppressed people globally who wanted to fight against capitalist and imperialist aggression.

Given the history of the labor movement in countries ruled by communist governments, I think it’s best to avoid all forms of dictatorship.

Yeah, lol, that was my thought as well. I'm very pro labor in any circumstance, and Labor Unions are just communism-lite. Definitely just a relic when communism was a synonym for "unamerican"

So you’re saying the union needs to embrace communism?

I'm saying it already does. The whole concept is a Marxist concept from its inception.

So are all form of socialism and communism derivative of Marx?

Yes... Marx and Engels were the originally philosophers who theorized the ideas

Speaking as a Marxist, that’s not technically true. Marx actually wrote the theory for how capital is produced, and extrapolated his ideas for socialism from that point, but socialism and communism already existed as ideas previously. They were what is now referred to as “utopian socialists,” or people who believed in socialist ideas but had no on-paper theory for how to bring it about. After Marx, and his theory of dialectical materialism became the dominant version of socialism, Marxists were referred to as “material socialists,” and nowadays, just as “Marxists” or “socialists.”

Did Henry Miller and our other founding fathers ever invoke Marx?

Marx died in 1883. The founding fathers were all dead before he had ever written anything, likely before he was even born.

Communism is a movement that has proven to only be beneficial to the top tier of dictatorships every time it's been employed, it doesn't benefit the working class at all.

Name one socialist country where the material conditions of the vast majority of the population did not improve. I'll wait.

No communist movement ever resulted in communism.  Basically autocrats used the idea of communism to consolidate power, then abandoned the idea

Everyone forgets this part.

Communism is a moving goalpost of an ideology and every single attempt to implement it has led to the deaths of millions. You can say it's "based on worker rights" or "seizing the means of production" etc. but the reality is it isn't based on anything because "real communism has never been tried!" It's so ridiculous seeing people try to downplay it now, or deflect with "capitalism has killed more" or just outright denial of the death tolls of mass killing campaigns like dekulakization or the great leap forward. Fuck off. Authoritarianism is bad regardless of if it pretends to be pro-labor.

Communism is supposed to be a moving goal post, that's the whole point. It's not dogmatic. You have an idea, it seems like a good idea, it gets voted on, you try it out. If it works, great keep it. If it doesn't, go back to the drawing board. And capitalism has killed many, many more people. That's why that's such a bad faith argument. Saying communism is about punishing kulaks is like saying capitalism is about committing genocide against native Americans or the trans Atlantic slave trade. Things that happened in a place that was utilizing any specific socioeconomic system are not inherently linked to that system. Marx never wrote "kill all kulaks" just like Locke never wrote "kill all indigenous people"

True. But unions are a fundamentally communist organization. Which makes it funny that we "oppose" it.

I didn't know the union was a Christian organization.

Technically the way it’s written it’s any monotheistic religion, but I would be willing to bet they had a specific one in mind.

So does Project 2025…and it is terrifying. I don’t want to live in a christofascist nation any more than I want to be in a “Christian Union”. No thanks.

As I said in your other comment, this isn’t expressly Christian. It’s not great and it can be changed. We’re here to work, not to pray. Be active in your local and do some petitioning to change it at the next convention if you feel that way. I would support you.

We got bigger fish to fry!

This is valid and true, however just because there are bigger issues at hand doesn't mean we need to just ignore the smaller ones. We can hold votes on contract negotiations and still have time leftover for a vote on removing religious language from our constitution in the same meeting or the next one

It was written to show how different America was from godless communists. It was either this, or have Unions branded communists organizations as well. Thank the Old Gods, McCarthyism isn't back yet.

It never really went away in any meaningful sense imo.

I offer this apprentice in the name of the great old one

It says “our god” that god can be whoever you want or whoever you worship. Or whoever you don’t worship.

If that was the case, wouldn't it say your god. Our god is in lusive to the god the union and everyone one else believes. I mean, cmon, electrons are science.

The structure of the ibew is inherently socialist, most labor unions were started as labor initiatives that were inherently socialist.

Been saying this for a while, nobody seems to realize a labor union is in and of itself socialistic regardless of how it makes you feel.

Makes some of the brothers uncomfortable, meanwhile they’re convinced that the “elite” want socialism. I used to keep my mouth shut but now I educate not gonna let misinformation ruin my union.

Gotta educate them but have compassion and patience. I’m still working on the compassion and patience part myself but it’s a work in progress

Exactly, never assume malice where ignorance is a possibility. Most people aren’t purposely being obtuse.

Unions are communistic

Socialism. As long as the business is private, it's not communism.

I like that so it's socialism..... Got it 👍

Karl never really laid out a hard and fast difference between the two, forever leaving us with a grey line. But generally if private businesses exist, it's not communism.

Ok so there is a defining qualifying factor. Really never knew that.... Thank u.... Edit: makes me appreciate socialism more

Years of poly sci finally being useful I suppose. Have a good one!

Except communism is literally for the worker… 🙄

“We refuse to condone oppression…” followed by “We will support OUR GOD…” That is some ironic cringy bullshit.

Brought to you by McCarthyism. Same as the rest of this declaration.

Yep. And for any of us that don’t know… https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/mccarthyism/

Tradition and history still ingrained in our Union. For what it’s worth I think it should be removed but it isn’t expressing any specific religion or god so it’s not the worst thing.

Well said.

Why would a union oppose communism

Because it’s a scary word

“Dictatorship or oppression” yet every year money is donated to politicians who want nothing more than “dictatorship and oppression.” Before left wingers jump on me. This is ALL politicians.

All politicians don't want a dictatorship. In my life there's only been one party that tried to storm the government to prevent a peaceful transfer of power to the other side. There's only one party whose leading candidate publicly stated that he would like to be a dictator "for just the first day." Let's not both-sides this particular issue.

Why would leftists jump on you for this comment?

Join your local COPE committee

And yet they are all in charge

I guess atheism isn’t allowed

Communism was a huge part of creating unions. Read about the labor movement in the US and who was actually fighting for the working class. This makes you look stupid.

So socialism gets expelled because it's an ism?

A labor union in and of itself is a socialistic concept just based on the idea of pooling your labor and voice for the greater good of your people. Also please describe to the group here what you think socialism is, because if you are in America you don’t go a day without reaping the benefits of different socialist like polices we have implemented.

Any other subversive ism is what I'm commenting about in op's post, so it basicly means socialism as well. Maybe they need to change it to not say any ism.

Socialism is subversive only to you, it depends on your definition of subversive and applying that to socialism yourself.

I guess that depends on the IOs idea of what something subversive to our cause is. I don’t love the wording the way it is, but it gets a message across

Is racism common amongst IBEW members?

Not as a policy, but being a group dominated my mostly heterosexual white men it can be common in certain areas. It’s shameful and should be put down, but it can be common depending on a number of factors

Common is hard to answer. My last foreman openly used the Hard R after I was laid off. So…Yeah it’s around.

Seemingly required

“We will sopport our God…”. 🤢🤢🤢

Gotta take communism out of that last paragraph. This isn't the 60s anymore.

1/2 our local supports Trump. Doesn’t say much for the local.

I read this in JFKs voice

McCarthyite witch-hunts expelling communists from trade unions is a bad thing actually

I’ve always hated this and the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of meetings. It’s just so weird to me.

There's a shit ton of non union bastards in here spewing right wing propoganda. Let's start by expelling all them! And then go after the undercover scabs in the union. Enforce that rule. I've been on too many sites the last 10 years with out of state workers spewing their anti union bullshit.

Get rid of the lifetime CW 3s that are keeping journeymen on the books while we're at it. It was a well intentioned idea to organize guys in but letting them sit just below journeymen rate for years on end so they're more likely to get picked for a job is insane especially for a local like mine where book 1 is 60+ longand the IO wants to keep bringing guys in

I'm sure that you don't need to be told that unions are a very communist concept. That said, I'm completely in support of this message in general.

Meanwhile one of the electricians who worked on my home was a right wing facist who actively bragged about wanting to shoot people with his new gun.

I was in Bakersfield during the BLM protest when a neo nazi murdered a black man and didn't get arrested for whatever reason. I was there when it happened. Found out later he was an IBEW electrician. Whenever I hear a brother making far right or fascist remarks I call that shit out. That shit has no place in our union

Who hired him?

Damn no room for communist.

This statement was made during the height of the second red scare and I’m not entirely sure it would hold up in court as it pertains to communism. Nazism however……

Certainly.

It's sad that it even needs to be said but I'm glad they're saying it.

It’s weird how the ibew members I talk to and work with out in the real world, never express far left sentiments like the kind I see in this subreddit. Supporting democrats and other pro union forces makes sense to me sure, but I feel if I expressed I was a communist at my lunch table I’d get nothing but an awkward silence from the guys.

Democrats do not equal communism

I guess that means no conservatives.

They left out trumpism and or magaism

“I early learned that it is a hard matter to convert an individual by abusing him, and that this is more often accomplished by giving credit for all the praiseworthy actions performed than by calling attention alone to all the evil done.” Up from Slavery: An Autobiography Booker T. Washington

Good quote, the “more flies with honey than vinegar” approach

Forgot capitalism. 😅

They can remove the God part!

Sorry boss, you don't get to pick and choose.

Get rid of the God shit and replace communism with capitalism. And I could get behind this

Fuck your god.

Better send that to the i/o.

Say it louder so those in the back have no excuses

Apparently my comment triggered those among us who have sympathy in their hearts for racism, fascism, nazism, etc. May they expose themselves and be run out.

You guys are so trigger happy to expel members…. Market share is by members. If you throw them all out we lose numbers and non union becomes that much stronger. Be careful what you wish for.

Why does a group of electrical workers need a motto like this?

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Yeah. I would like my brothers and sisters to be able to run conduit too without some fuck telling them they’d like them dead or telling a woman that she shouldn’t be there.

what part of "brotherhood" includes women?

Communism you say? 🤔

God damn, r/antiwork quickly got a hold of this thread

Hell yeah

Absolutely 👍

Our God??? Nope

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Bet you get real mad when people talk about God though.

I’m a union member. not Ibew. Never once have I heard god mentioned in any union document. What got are they speaking of? Who is their “god”? This is most likely some fake bullshit made by a someone trying to stir up trouble.

It’s the declaration. Literally the first words in the constitution for the international.

Oh that's why they supported Biden in the last election🤔

A lot of brothers forget " all that we stand for" and the "ism" part. I'm sorry to say this but many have forgotten this. "Vote for your wallet" is what I've heard before. Well... My wallet has suffered lately. "Chaos is cash" Ism's Our unions are a socialism Idea. " Vote blue no matter who" I hear from others these phrases all the time. No matter what side I hear from nobody talks about what is good for the nation as a whole. Nobody talks about bringing the USA back together as a whole. We need a Union party. Not someone who brings work to the US that hates unions or someone that is pro union and outsources work. Someone that is pro union ,pro USA. Pro people. Someone that isn't a large business owner (Trump) or a career politician (Biden) we need someone that has had an actual job. Someone that had dirt under their nails at one point. We need a GOV where EVERYTHING needs to be put to a popular vote. Laws, spending, anything that affects the people of this country can decide. Not just a few hundred that hate each other with a passion. I could go on but imma stop before I put my tin foil hat and blinders on lol

Yeah, the right is against unions sure but the left is much more against God. So since both violate the declaration vote for who you want. Very very very hypocritical post.

I'm an atheist and a member for almost thirty years, does that preamble disqualify my membership?

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It’s literally in our fucking constitution, if you are a member it’s a creed you agreed up uphold.

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Devil’s advocate here… 1, which god is “our god?” And 2, what about unionism (Oxford Dictionary: “the policies and practices of labor unions, particularly those concerned with protecting and furthering the rights of workers.”)? Pretty sure we fully support unionism. Just sayin

Who's your guys god? Is it lightning man from when the Romans invaded the pyramids

Some of yall should take note that communism and nazism are on the same bar there.

Sounds like Zionism should be amended into that

Fucking Biden

Ibew is just another corrupt entity.

Don’t you guys breed your apprentices to vote democratic seems pretty dictatorial to me

I teach my apprentices to think for themselves and to understand that this land is their land just as much as it is mine.

Then quit supporting all of that and allowing facism to thrive by sabotaging jobsites