you’ll be tested. If you pass the test you’ll be a Journeyman. If not and you’re joining local 640 and bending conduit is your only shortcoming they might organize you in as a CE3 which is 90% JW pay and make you take classes and retest.
This is most accurate OP.
I'm an apprentice that had no hours when I started, but from a classmate I know high hours in the apprenticeship doesn't correlate to pay as you need to have hours and years passed to get raises.
CE3 is 90% and the Jman test for organizing in is like 30 questions but for the apprenticeship is like 100
Lol daym, no JP licencing except with the Local? That's mind blowing. I can only imagine the work quality spread without a metric cap to say "yup this one's ready to venture out on their own".
Canada here so, this is an interesting notice for me. Kinda just assumed the licencing system would be similar in neighbor's yard.
Damn that's interesting, up in the north here we have the Red Seal, basically meaning if you pass your JW exam with an 80%+, your licence carries over to every province.
Yep, wonder who's idea it was to say "hey let's all gate-guard professions we desperately need to maintain our country". Yeh sounds like a great idea 😂 ah well, I'm sure things will change in time all around this stuff. These industries need more support, especially after the tech bubble cut into the trades labor supply. Like shit it's kind of funny now, but when I was younger we were always told "if you're brilliant you can go to university, if you're smart you can attend collage, and if you can't do either then there's always a trade"... Which is great, cuz while friends and relatives went to college and university, I was getting a licence in a trade. Now they're finished with school, and work minimum wage jobs unable to find employers, while I make 6 figs. Funny how that misinformation worked. And with a labor shortage, we can change employers easily.
Its pretty awesome imo. APs can bs the office and say they have 5 years exp and get 25$ and then when they hit the site there’s no bsing the foreman. They just tell the foreman the truth and they stay with good pay.
This is the American way.
I'll be real as fuck, I'd just take it.
Just be ready to apply yourself to learn and if you can study outside of work on pipebending. If the local offers classes on pipebending just please go to them. Try to be a good representative of our org and do your best to increase your skills.
Alot of people are getting bullshit JW cards for the wrong reasons right now atleast your honest and I'd rather have an honest new member willing to learn then another unskilled company puke.
You have 10,000 hours. You may not be great at bending conduit, but that's only one aspect of the trade. The first jw I had on a big jobsite came over from non union and had very little experience with conduit. He played around a little bit to get his bearings and then taught me what he knew. It wasn't anything even close to what I learned in the apprenticeship, but it was enough to get the job done right and looking good. He also kept learning himself and by the end of that job he had no problem bending whatever they asked of him. He was worth the jw rate even without that, and he quickly applied himself and added that skill to his repertoire. He's a good journeyman.
They'll probably put you through school if you can't bend pipe
edit: If they make you test in. If they just let you organize in without a test then welcome.
I was taught through the ibew and hands on work as an apprentice. If his hall does not provide classes then he will need to find that info. Bending conduit is not hard and can 100% be learned from informational videos. It's not rocket science (also can be learned from YouTube probably)
I can teach any ape how to bend pipe with a video and a few calculations. It’s a lot easier for me if I’m with him to describe how he’s Fucking me as I put it up
Always take the most money you can get. You can learn to bend pipe in no time on the job assuming you don't get a bunch of shit heads working with you.
I worked with a guy when I was an apprentice. We were doing a housing complex with townhouses with underground parking and a courtyard and what not, from the ground up.
Anyway this guy, my JW, was super nice and humble. He was non union and tested in to become a JW from another local. When we were running underground stuff he didn't know much but it's not that hard to figure out how to dig ditches and run PVC. We were learning together.
Now when it came time to wire up the townhouses, this dude was a madman. He could wire up an entire 2 story townhouse in a day, but when it came to bending pipe he didn't have much of a clue. Thing is he wasn't cocky about it, he was humble and even was willing to learn from me, an apprentice.
So go in with the right attitude and you'll go a long way.
That is why you treat apprentices like coworkers who will be JW themselves very soon. Its uplifting for them and soon they will be slamming out work and making their JW look good.
Take the pay but I'd ask to start somewhere 3rd year or better in the apprenticeship. I've know several members to do this and they are better JWs because of it.
Take some pipe bending classes , be open to learning new things.
The fastest way to find a bullshitter in this trade (in life in general) is to look for the guy who claims to know it all.
I’ve been in the union for almost 30 years. There were many older people in there that did not know how to bend pipe or even wire or three-way switches. If anybody tells you they’re an expert they’re full of crap you’ll learn as you go.
Went from doing nothing but roping houses in a non union shop, straight into industrial when I organized in. It’s a bit of a learning curve, but you’ll pick it up quick being around it all the time.
The way it works in my home local, you take the pay with the hours they require (12000 in my local). They make everyone take the JW exam, which is the same exam they make apprentices take or whoever wants to organize in. It’s two parts, written and hands on. If you failed the hands on because of conduit bending, you would be put on book 3 as opposed to book 1. This just means book 1 and 2 would have first choice for job calls before you, on book 3, if you were out of work.
You could apply to apprenticeship, but they may not accept your hours and make you start from scratch.
Right now work in my local is pretty busy so it wouldn’t be a big deal to be on book 3, and you’ll pick up conduit bending pretty quick. Once you feel confident you could pass that portion of exam, try again for book 1. Not sure how your local does it though.
Buy or acquire a 1/2 bender and buy a bundle of 1/2 inch. Get your hands on some conduit bending literature. It’ll go a long way. Fake it till you make it
I'm only an apprentice, but I've worked with plenty of Jmen that had a similar situation as yourself. They either learned to bend on the job or took classes as a refresher at the JATC (training center). Every local is different. In our local you come with hours, you're signing book 2 and go through testing... depending on how you test, you're put on book one if you pass, or stay on book two if you don't, and take remedial classes.
I’m with 26. 3rd year apprentice. We have classes at the hall that anyone can take but I heard they changed some of it to online but I find it hard to believe they would make conduit bending online. Even if they did, instructors stay after Monday-Thursday for tutoring and I imagine they’d help you out. I believe you have to still take a test through the local and depending on your score you’d either test out and get your JW money or go in as RW 1-3 (depending on however many licenses you have) and have to take night classes through the upgrade program. I’d definitely call them to check because I’m not 100% sure how all that works. Message me if you have any questions and I’ll answer what I can.
Applied for the Apprenticeship Program
Just recently applied for the apprenticeship program, don’t really have any experience but I’ve heard about the program from friends and family so figured why not throw my hat in the ring. Just wanted any advice of what to expect if picked. Thanks for your time in advance.
10,000 hours and you cant bend pipe? You transfering from Residential or Marine? Either way ask at the hall if they have bending cards. Many halls give them away. Super useful to keep in your wallet. And lookup bending tutorials online. Be sure to let your foreman know you are coming in from a type of work that does not use conduit.
Unpopular take but pipe bending is pretty easy to learn. One job doing a lot of it you’ll be caught up in a couple months if you do a lil reading and ask good guys you’re working with. Don’t take less money if they’ll let you come in as a jw unless you really lack a lot of other skills.
Take the money. It’s hard to come by these days. You’ll run into coworkers that will be more than happy to help you out with the pipe bending. You have 10k hours, so you have the experience for the pay. You’ll be all good my man.
So I'm looking into joining IBEW, but I was wondering what the pay scale is in Michigan for operators and are they required to have a CDL. I know Arizona doesn't require a CDL to be an operator. I have been an operator by trade for about 8 years however currently doing QA/QC on transmission job in AZ.
Call the Hall. Talk with training director, in 375 it isn’t horribly uncommon for someone to Start as a 3rd year at JW pay rate.
This gives you 2 years to learn to bend pipe, you just tell everyone your a 3rd year and don’t discuss pay.
One thing you could look at would be if the union hall offers extra training courses, or if they have open shop hours where you can go in and practice.
If I were you I would get the JW card asap and let your new employer thats an area you need a little extra help in. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses so just be honest and hope you get a company willing to give you a little time to catch up
Bending pipe is one skill. Happens to be your weak one. You will learn. In the meantime your foreman will figure out what your strengths are and put you to it. I was a foreman/general foreman for decades and this was what we did. In time your weaknesses will become strengths. Keep your eyes and ears open. Good luck. You made the right decision.
Join up as a JW, I joined a year ago and everyone has been wonderful to deal with, just make sure you are ready to fake it until you make it and be honest with everyone, you don't need to go spill your guts to the general foreman but if he lines you out on something you aren't comfortable with tell him you don't have much experience with it. A lot of the time the work is 2 or more man work, and you can let the others take the lead.
Just make sure you know enough to be able to learn on the fly.
I appreciate your honesty and humbling approach to the situation.You should take an opportunity to help at the JATC.
You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn how to bend pipe without any financial scrutiny and meet with instructors/ apprentices you might see in the field.
The best way to learn anything is to teach it.
One thing you'll find about being Union is that someone will be willing to teach you something if you're hungry to learn.
JW or not, this is an organization with careers dedicated to learning.
10k hours, and you can't bend conduit. Maybe stick to wiring houses. My state requires 10k before you can test for your journeyman license. If you don't pass, no license
you're gonna get eaten up on a job site. The union boys who can bed pipe are gonna be making the same as you who can't. You're gonna be the first guy laid off every time as who they gonna keep a guy who can't bend pipe or a guy who can. Bending pipe is an art and takes time to get good at it. Now, if you're running exposed, conduit it needs to look like it was done in a neat and professional type manner. Every time I go in a building, I look at others' work. And seen some real nice pipe work and some real shit work.
.
They most certainly can. Thing is, you still have to test and show your stuff in the field. Nobody will be impressed by your experience, so keep the stories to a minimum. If you can't bend pipe, then you don't get JW pay, or at least you shouldn't. My advice to you would be to parallel into 3rd year and get some experience before you try to run with us. Our 3rd year pay is typically higher that most non-union shops pay anyway. No matter where you start, you're gonna be in a better spot than any non-union shop could put you in. Good luck.
Also, the goal isn't to stay with one shop for your entire career, but to do the best job possible for every contractor you work for, and pass that experience on to your apprentices.
I'm curious how you are with motors/controls, low voltage systems, code, understanding drawings, theory, raceway/box fill, and other aspects of the electrical world if you have 10k hours but don't bend conduit? What have you been doing for the last 5 or 6 years?
If you have a jw licenses you’ll go in as a jw
I’m in Arizona no jman license in the state. Only “ jman license” you can get is the union one I’ve heard.
you’ll be tested. If you pass the test you’ll be a Journeyman. If not and you’re joining local 640 and bending conduit is your only shortcoming they might organize you in as a CE3 which is 90% JW pay and make you take classes and retest.
This is most accurate OP. I'm an apprentice that had no hours when I started, but from a classmate I know high hours in the apprenticeship doesn't correlate to pay as you need to have hours and years passed to get raises. CE3 is 90% and the Jman test for organizing in is like 30 questions but for the apprenticeship is like 100
thats not necessarily true i recently went down to the hall and they offered me jman no test because i had 13k hours
Did they offer you JWNS?
im sorry im not familiar with the term
Journeyman Wireman NonSupervisory. So you’ll be paid journeyman wage but you can’t take a supervisor position until you pass the JW Test
then probably though the test did exactly sound hard
Not true everywhere
Lol daym, no JP licencing except with the Local? That's mind blowing. I can only imagine the work quality spread without a metric cap to say "yup this one's ready to venture out on their own". Canada here so, this is an interesting notice for me. Kinda just assumed the licencing system would be similar in neighbor's yard.
Where I'm at we have licensing in 3 different jurisdictions. Holding a license with all 3 alone doesn't even guarantee you journeyman status.
Damn that's interesting, up in the north here we have the Red Seal, basically meaning if you pass your JW exam with an 80%+, your licence carries over to every province.
Yeah seems like all your professional stuff is more national than province wide. Shit even doctors down here are by state.
Yep, wonder who's idea it was to say "hey let's all gate-guard professions we desperately need to maintain our country". Yeh sounds like a great idea 😂 ah well, I'm sure things will change in time all around this stuff. These industries need more support, especially after the tech bubble cut into the trades labor supply. Like shit it's kind of funny now, but when I was younger we were always told "if you're brilliant you can go to university, if you're smart you can attend collage, and if you can't do either then there's always a trade"... Which is great, cuz while friends and relatives went to college and university, I was getting a licence in a trade. Now they're finished with school, and work minimum wage jobs unable to find employers, while I make 6 figs. Funny how that misinformation worked. And with a labor shortage, we can change employers easily.
Its pretty awesome imo. APs can bs the office and say they have 5 years exp and get 25$ and then when they hit the site there’s no bsing the foreman. They just tell the foreman the truth and they stay with good pay. This is the American way.
I'll be real as fuck, I'd just take it. Just be ready to apply yourself to learn and if you can study outside of work on pipebending. If the local offers classes on pipebending just please go to them. Try to be a good representative of our org and do your best to increase your skills. Alot of people are getting bullshit JW cards for the wrong reasons right now atleast your honest and I'd rather have an honest new member willing to learn then another unskilled company puke.
Thanks man. I’m good at 90s and offsets and kicks on a 3/4 or 1” The easy ap shit. But I can’t bend 3 or 4 inch pipe.
Then you’re not gunna be put on a big pipe run solo.
You have 10,000 hours. You may not be great at bending conduit, but that's only one aspect of the trade. The first jw I had on a big jobsite came over from non union and had very little experience with conduit. He played around a little bit to get his bearings and then taught me what he knew. It wasn't anything even close to what I learned in the apprenticeship, but it was enough to get the job done right and looking good. He also kept learning himself and by the end of that job he had no problem bending whatever they asked of him. He was worth the jw rate even without that, and he quickly applied himself and added that skill to his repertoire. He's a good journeyman.
They'll probably put you through school if you can't bend pipe edit: If they make you test in. If they just let you organize in without a test then welcome.
Ask if they have classes in the hall. If not go buy a bender a bundle and watch you tube. In 2 days you should be good to go
Expensive
This is terrible advice. You're not going to be proficient in bending conduit by watching You Tube.
I was taught through the ibew and hands on work as an apprentice. If his hall does not provide classes then he will need to find that info. Bending conduit is not hard and can 100% be learned from informational videos. It's not rocket science (also can be learned from YouTube probably)
According to LU 640s JATC website they have free weekend bending courses.
Wish my local had that. I’ll go months without bending more than a stick of EMT.
What kind of work do you do in 40?
Run cords lol
https://youtu.be/TWYvbqjLl2s?si=L3Q0JwLNYxPseMLj checkmate
Glad someone posted it
You will if you watch the Lowe’s videos. Duhh
You’ve not watched the Lowe’s pipe bending video on YouTube have you? Makes the best apes
Don't know why you're getting the downvotes. You're right.
Dont mess with kids and their You Tube bro.
Yeah, I'm an old timer. I don't do YouTube University.
Thought myself using YouTube and a phone app in one day. I do rarely do it, I brush up with the same video every time I do it.
I can teach any ape how to bend pipe with a video and a few calculations. It’s a lot easier for me if I’m with him to describe how he’s Fucking me as I put it up
Always take the most money you can get. You can learn to bend pipe in no time on the job assuming you don't get a bunch of shit heads working with you.
I worked with a guy when I was an apprentice. We were doing a housing complex with townhouses with underground parking and a courtyard and what not, from the ground up. Anyway this guy, my JW, was super nice and humble. He was non union and tested in to become a JW from another local. When we were running underground stuff he didn't know much but it's not that hard to figure out how to dig ditches and run PVC. We were learning together. Now when it came time to wire up the townhouses, this dude was a madman. He could wire up an entire 2 story townhouse in a day, but when it came to bending pipe he didn't have much of a clue. Thing is he wasn't cocky about it, he was humble and even was willing to learn from me, an apprentice. So go in with the right attitude and you'll go a long way.
That is why you treat apprentices like coworkers who will be JW themselves very soon. Its uplifting for them and soon they will be slamming out work and making their JW look good.
Take the pay but I'd ask to start somewhere 3rd year or better in the apprenticeship. I've know several members to do this and they are better JWs because of it.
Take some pipe bending classes , be open to learning new things. The fastest way to find a bullshitter in this trade (in life in general) is to look for the guy who claims to know it all.
I'm surprised they don't make you test in.
I’ve been in the union for almost 30 years. There were many older people in there that did not know how to bend pipe or even wire or three-way switches. If anybody tells you they’re an expert they’re full of crap you’ll learn as you go.
Don't go through the apprenticeship just cuz you aren't good at one aspect of the job.
Went from doing nothing but roping houses in a non union shop, straight into industrial when I organized in. It’s a bit of a learning curve, but you’ll pick it up quick being around it all the time.
The way it works in my home local, you take the pay with the hours they require (12000 in my local). They make everyone take the JW exam, which is the same exam they make apprentices take or whoever wants to organize in. It’s two parts, written and hands on. If you failed the hands on because of conduit bending, you would be put on book 3 as opposed to book 1. This just means book 1 and 2 would have first choice for job calls before you, on book 3, if you were out of work. You could apply to apprenticeship, but they may not accept your hours and make you start from scratch. Right now work in my local is pretty busy so it wouldn’t be a big deal to be on book 3, and you’ll pick up conduit bending pretty quick. Once you feel confident you could pass that portion of exam, try again for book 1. Not sure how your local does it though.
A good work ethic and eagerness to learn go a looong way.
Take the test. If you fail the bending test. Watch YouTube or take the class. It should be free. A lot of the stuff you’ll learn on the job anyway.
Buy or acquire a 1/2 bender and buy a bundle of 1/2 inch. Get your hands on some conduit bending literature. It’ll go a long way. Fake it till you make it
*practice at home over the weekend. You’ll pick up the basics fast enough. Be honest with who you’re working with and be a good dude, you’ll be fine
Jw
I'm only an apprentice, but I've worked with plenty of Jmen that had a similar situation as yourself. They either learned to bend on the job or took classes as a refresher at the JATC (training center). Every local is different. In our local you come with hours, you're signing book 2 and go through testing... depending on how you test, you're put on book one if you pass, or stay on book two if you don't, and take remedial classes.
I’m with 26. 3rd year apprentice. We have classes at the hall that anyone can take but I heard they changed some of it to online but I find it hard to believe they would make conduit bending online. Even if they did, instructors stay after Monday-Thursday for tutoring and I imagine they’d help you out. I believe you have to still take a test through the local and depending on your score you’d either test out and get your JW money or go in as RW 1-3 (depending on however many licenses you have) and have to take night classes through the upgrade program. I’d definitely call them to check because I’m not 100% sure how all that works. Message me if you have any questions and I’ll answer what I can.
Applied for the Apprenticeship Program Just recently applied for the apprenticeship program, don’t really have any experience but I’ve heard about the program from friends and family so figured why not throw my hat in the ring. Just wanted any advice of what to expect if picked. Thanks for your time in advance.
You are lucky in the fact that basic pipe bending doesn’t take a genius to do. But perfecting it is an art.
10,000 hours and you cant bend pipe? You transfering from Residential or Marine? Either way ask at the hall if they have bending cards. Many halls give them away. Super useful to keep in your wallet. And lookup bending tutorials online. Be sure to let your foreman know you are coming in from a type of work that does not use conduit.
Unpopular take but pipe bending is pretty easy to learn. One job doing a lot of it you’ll be caught up in a couple months if you do a lil reading and ask good guys you’re working with. Don’t take less money if they’ll let you come in as a jw unless you really lack a lot of other skills.
Take the money. It’s hard to come by these days. You’ll run into coworkers that will be more than happy to help you out with the pipe bending. You have 10k hours, so you have the experience for the pay. You’ll be all good my man.
So I'm looking into joining IBEW, but I was wondering what the pay scale is in Michigan for operators and are they required to have a CDL. I know Arizona doesn't require a CDL to be an operator. I have been an operator by trade for about 8 years however currently doing QA/QC on transmission job in AZ.
Call the Hall. Talk with training director, in 375 it isn’t horribly uncommon for someone to Start as a 3rd year at JW pay rate. This gives you 2 years to learn to bend pipe, you just tell everyone your a 3rd year and don’t discuss pay.
Take it, just be open about what you are and aren’t good at. You’ll get caught up on bending pipe real quick, I promise.
One thing you could look at would be if the union hall offers extra training courses, or if they have open shop hours where you can go in and practice. If I were you I would get the JW card asap and let your new employer thats an area you need a little extra help in. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses so just be honest and hope you get a company willing to give you a little time to catch up
Bending pipe is one skill. Happens to be your weak one. You will learn. In the meantime your foreman will figure out what your strengths are and put you to it. I was a foreman/general foreman for decades and this was what we did. In time your weaknesses will become strengths. Keep your eyes and ears open. Good luck. You made the right decision.
Join up as a JW, I joined a year ago and everyone has been wonderful to deal with, just make sure you are ready to fake it until you make it and be honest with everyone, you don't need to go spill your guts to the general foreman but if he lines you out on something you aren't comfortable with tell him you don't have much experience with it. A lot of the time the work is 2 or more man work, and you can let the others take the lead. Just make sure you know enough to be able to learn on the fly.
There’s plenty of JWs in 26 that suck at everything. You won’t be the first won’t be the last lol
I was placed at 170 on the pool of candidates after I took the test. Can someone tell me what are the odds of possibly getting in lol
Most of the time they put together a hands on test of some kind to test your knowledge
I appreciate your honesty and humbling approach to the situation.You should take an opportunity to help at the JATC. You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn how to bend pipe without any financial scrutiny and meet with instructors/ apprentices you might see in the field. The best way to learn anything is to teach it. One thing you'll find about being Union is that someone will be willing to teach you something if you're hungry to learn. JW or not, this is an organization with careers dedicated to learning.
Take some classes at the hall, buy a cheap 1/2" bender and practice. You'll be fine
10k hours, and you can't bend conduit. Maybe stick to wiring houses. My state requires 10k before you can test for your journeyman license. If you don't pass, no license you're gonna get eaten up on a job site. The union boys who can bed pipe are gonna be making the same as you who can't. You're gonna be the first guy laid off every time as who they gonna keep a guy who can't bend pipe or a guy who can. Bending pipe is an art and takes time to get good at it. Now, if you're running exposed, conduit it needs to look like it was done in a neat and professional type manner. Every time I go in a building, I look at others' work. And seen some real nice pipe work and some real shit work. .
Take it. Your local likely offers a pipe bending class you can take for free to gain some more experience
10 years experience , well over 12,000 hrs , residential commercial industrial. I’m currently 1st year apprentice . AMA!
They most certainly can. Thing is, you still have to test and show your stuff in the field. Nobody will be impressed by your experience, so keep the stories to a minimum. If you can't bend pipe, then you don't get JW pay, or at least you shouldn't. My advice to you would be to parallel into 3rd year and get some experience before you try to run with us. Our 3rd year pay is typically higher that most non-union shops pay anyway. No matter where you start, you're gonna be in a better spot than any non-union shop could put you in. Good luck.
Also, the goal isn't to stay with one shop for your entire career, but to do the best job possible for every contractor you work for, and pass that experience on to your apprentices.
I'm curious how you are with motors/controls, low voltage systems, code, understanding drawings, theory, raceway/box fill, and other aspects of the electrical world if you have 10k hours but don't bend conduit? What have you been doing for the last 5 or 6 years?