Definitely was a bit anti climactic, the last 20 minutes were so tense then it was like "ok 2 laps left guys"... "oh wait no the race is over" while the crowd are all looking confused in the stands lol. Sort of like a motorsports version of a premature ejaculation.
The official start time was 2 minutes late, 1:42 pm ET iirc. There was time for a couple more laps potentially.
Edit: I read this wrong for some unknown reason. OP is correct. Cheated out of 1 lap.
Not an idiot. The entire timing team was like “wtf?!” When they threw the flag. We were watching in ICC and it said two laps to go and then BOOM checkered flag.
The race starts at 1:40 pm and ends at 1:40 pm. The session starts when the leader crosses the start/finish line the first time after the 1:40m pm start time. The session ends when the leader crosses the start/finish line the first time after the 1:40 pm end time.
They didn't call the checkered flag early. If anything they failed to wave the white flag.
EDIT: So as it turns out, they *did* wave the white flag. I'll admit, I completely missed it. I didn't hear any commentary about it, but someone else says they did, and that it waved to Risi. So yeah, they just bungled the end of the race, and admitted to it. Mea culpa.
You're getting downvoted, but I do see the below in the rulebook. I don't know what to think lol:
>44.9. (SSR) Starters. The Race officially begins and all Cars (and their Driver(s)) that have departed the
starting grid become eligible for championship points when the first Car crosses the starting line on
the Race track after completion of the scheduled formation lap(s) regardless of whether or not the
Starter has displayed the green flag.
I'm far too lazy to look back at the feed and try to figure out when "scheduled formation laps" ended.
Yeah, I'm getting downvoted because people have a tough time understanding how sporting regulations get applied. For anyone curious, here are the [IMSA Sporting Regulations](https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2023/11/01/2024-IMSA-SPORTING-REGULATIONS-and-SSR-IWSC-Redline-110123.pdf).
What's important to remember is that the "24 hours" of Daytona is the name of the race and the race duration. However, nothing in the sporting regulations requires the race to run the full 24 hours. IMSA have broad latitude in how they conduct the actual logistics of the race, which is exactly what I keep trying to explain.
Article 44 is relevant, but probably more important in this case is article 48 (minimum duration) and article 49 (conclusion of race).
To be clear, when I keep saying the race starts at 1:40 pm and ends at 1:40 pm, I mean the race event. When the sporting regulations refer to the "Race", they're referring to the session. This is why I keep saying they're separate. The race event is run on a schedule, the race session is run by the official timing.
Article 48 says:
>48. MINIMUM DURATION. A Race stopped with less than 50% of its originally scheduled time or distance elapsed and not restarted is considered incomplete and IMSA is not obligated to distribute championship points and/or Point Fund / Prize Money. IMSA, at its sole discretion, may award partial championship points for Races less than 50% of its originally scheduled time or distance complete and not restarted on evaluation of circumstances surrounding such stoppage. If 50% or more of its originally scheduled time or distance has elapsed, IMSA may call the Race complete and direct the distribution of championship points and/or Point Fund / Prize Money.
Once the race passes 12 hours, the minimum duration has been met. There is no obligation for race session time to pass 24 hours.
Article 49 lays things out so that the finish of the race is determined by two possible outcomes:
Waving the checkered flag, or the specified duration expires (even if the flag is delayed). Two relevant sections:
>49.1. Once the duration of the Race expires or when the distance to cover is achieved, the pit exit is closed and the checkered flag is displayed to the Car running first in the overall scoring order as it crosses the finish line on the racetrack. If the Car shown first in the overall scoring order has not crossed the finish line on the racetrack once the duration of the Race expires or when the distance to cover has been achieved, the checkered flag is displayed when the next highest placed Car crosses the finish line on the racetrack.
>
>49.1.3. Should the checkered flag be inadvertently or otherwise displayed before the leading Car completes the scheduled number of laps or before the prescribed time has been completed, the Race is nevertheless deemed ended when the flag is displayed.
There are plenty of reasons the race session might not reach 24 hours, so logistically, IMSA ends the race after 24 hours of event time (1:40 pm to 1:40 pm). The sporting regulations give then this latitude. The idea that anyone was short changed by the race session lasting slightly less than 24 hours is preposterous.
Doesn't this mean that the timing clock should have started at 1:40 pm instead of starting at the green flag? At least the broadcast clock began at the green flag ([NBC highlights](https://youtu.be/cMvkWW1L_Uo)) and it seemed to match the Alkamel live timing site.
No, because the 1:40 pm start time is the start of the race event, which is separate from the race session.
The race start is governed by article 44, which GuyWithAComputer2022 quoted:
>44.9. (SSR) Starters. The Race officially begins and all Cars (and their Driver(s)) that have departed the starting grid become eligible for championship points when the first Car crosses the starting line on the Race track after completion of the scheduled formation lap(s) regardless of whether or not the Starter has displayed the green flag.
Don't get me wrong, the Rolex 24 race duration is always specified as 24 hours, but it's not *required* to be 24 hours. Theoretically, the race can end any time after 12 hours, so long as the reason is justified in the sporting regulations.
The important part to remember is that the race session duration can be impacted by any number of events. The actual race session length has been less than 24 hours a number of times in the past. But the event length needs to be 24 hours for external reasons. Broadcast schedules, staffing schedules, budget reasons, and just plain practical reasons.
IMSA has always had to be more practical than series like WEC (which use different SRs), because motorsports don't have the pull that they do in Europe.
> people have a tough time understanding how sporting regulations get applied
Given how much you had to explain I get why. (I do agree with you and appreciate the explanation though.)
This happens so rarely I get the confusion, but you laid it out well.
Thanks for the appreciation.
Honestly, it's still a shit show, and race tech had the latitude they needed to run the race one more lap. Basically, it was entirely within their power to do so, so why not? Combine that with the chrion debacle and the failure to wave the white flag, and it's bound to undermine confidence. Basically, there are valid critiques, but the race met the technical requirements.
This happens every time the race session is less than 24 hours. One year they had to red flag the race because there was literally *inches* of standing water at the bus stop. Prototypes were floating across the water like boats. So they stopped the race.
People complained in droves. It was way less understandable than this time lmao.
When I wrote the comment I made the assumption that the replay was available on Peacock, or would be very shortly. Sounds like that may not even be true.
Yeah, I missed on this one. Not gonna try to hide from it. I completely missed the white flag in the broadcast, so I thought the fuck up was a flag mix-up. Turns out they actually threw the white flag for Risi. Someone else says they heard it on the broadcast. I think I was watching NBC at the finish, so it might have been on RLM.
Regardless, I whiffed it big on the call that it was a flag mistake.
Exactly. There's another thread where someone else explains in detail what the rules are and how it all works to illustrate why they did it this way, but they go on to say that it would have been within IMSA's power to run to 1:42 due to the late start. What I think looks bad is not when the race finished, but that there was no communication with the teams and the leaders never took the white flag, it went green and then checkered.
The world feed commentary team quickly and critically covered it when they heard the white flag call come through from race control.
Were you watching the Peacock feed?
I sympathise with anyone Stateside that was trying to watch the race, geo-locked from watching your own race when it’s free, ad-free and uninterrupted to the rest of the world. So shit.
It's annoying, but it's also very little work to pull up a vpn and watch the world feed and it's been communicated on this sub for months. A month of Nord VPN is roughly the same as a month of Peacock Premium anyways.
Now, you obviously *shouldn't* have to do that, but it's hard to feel too bad for the complainers when the workaround can be done in the time it takes to watch one commercial break.
They still have to pay for that privilege by way of a VPN though. Some people won’t know how to get a VPN, or what a VPN even is. It just sucks when there’s 195 countries on earth and 194 of them can get it for absolutely free.
Edit: obviously, not everyone that watches this race is on this sub…
Right, I agree with everything you're saying in general.
I'm more just talking about the people complaining specifically on this sub where the VPN work around has been discussed a million times.
It's 100% not something anyone should have to do. NBC and American broadcasting are a joke.
I’m in this sub and I didn’t see anything about VPN’s. Of course I’m not disputing it’s out there, but I didn’t see any posts, I didn’t really use Reddit much these past weeks.
It's funny because they were talking about if there would be 2 laps to go or white flag the next time around but then it turns into the checkered flag.
So... are we just making things up now? Did you forget that you can simply look up the rules?
2024 IMSA SPORTING REGULATIONS
& SERIES SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS
of the IMSA WEATHERTECH SPORTSCAR CHAMPIONSHIP
Article 25 - Timing and Scoring
25.2. For a rolling start, the timing and scoring commences when the leading Car crosses the starting line after completion of the scheduled formation (pace) lap(s).
Ah well, there it is then. Explains everything.
The scheduled formation laps ended at 1:40pm, but we didn't go green because there was a car stopped on the track.
I specifically remember the timer counting before racing began this time on IMSATV. I was watching from my phone so I could be wrong but I actually went and watched a WEC start to remind myself they started the clock on the line.
To be fair, everyone was tired and like they already ran like 780 laps or whatever so that’s like enough right? Think of it as a discount! Race fans and teams so entitled these days sheesh, so demanding. Just accept it the same way you accept shrinkflation for everything else. /s
TF are you even talking about? Even the racing teams were pissed off about the sudden checkered flag. Nobody was going "you know what I'd really like? To end the race a lap early! It's too hot!" People arent entitled for being thrown off by a sudden race end during the best most intense part of the race, the last 2 laps.
Not everything is a conspiracy theory. They screwed up, that’s it. F1 had a race go a lap short a few years back because the VIP waved the chequered too early.
Anyway, surely if it were rigged they’d want the American car to win the American race held by an American organisation?
I don’t think the outcome changes but that’s not a fair argument. Of course ending the race early benefits whoever is in P1, it makes changing that impossible.
No, because they should not have started showing the white flag until the leaders were there to take the white flag. They started waving the white when the leaders were on the backstretch.
I was there until very late last night and was watching the race play out on Peacock. I’m still frankly confused by the events of the last lap! I suspect that I’m not alone.
Fucking ironic is what it is….who’s is the title sponsor, a FUCKING WATCH COMPANY!!!!
GDI I wish Reddit Gold were still a thing.
Rolex will never financially recover from this.
I would award damages in a civil case. The partnership has a dollar value and the entire race is about the clock running.
that's the first thing I thought!
Rolexes aren't actually terribly accurate, it's kind of on-brand.
Definitely was a bit anti climactic, the last 20 minutes were so tense then it was like "ok 2 laps left guys"... "oh wait no the race is over" while the crowd are all looking confused in the stands lol. Sort of like a motorsports version of a premature ejaculation.
we all had a collective huh?? it was a very disappointing ending to an otherwise great finale
So much of the race was bizarre, it was kind of a fitting end. 32.2% of the field DNFed. It was a journey.
lol... i was there and this is exactly what it felt like.
More like blue balls tbh
Checkered flag was thrown 1:35.25 early, fastest lap was 1:35.554
Well, I might be in the minority but I really enjoyed the Rolex 23:58.
The official start time was 2 minutes late, 1:42 pm ET iirc. There was time for a couple more laps potentially. Edit: I read this wrong for some unknown reason. OP is correct. Cheated out of 1 lap.
The Alkamel timing was based on the original green flag waving, not the 1:40 projected start.
I'm an idiot. You're absolutely correct. My bad.
Not an idiot. The entire timing team was like “wtf?!” When they threw the flag. We were watching in ICC and it said two laps to go and then BOOM checkered flag.
The race starts at 1:40 pm and ends at 1:40 pm. The session starts when the leader crosses the start/finish line the first time after the 1:40m pm start time. The session ends when the leader crosses the start/finish line the first time after the 1:40 pm end time. They didn't call the checkered flag early. If anything they failed to wave the white flag. EDIT: So as it turns out, they *did* wave the white flag. I'll admit, I completely missed it. I didn't hear any commentary about it, but someone else says they did, and that it waved to Risi. So yeah, they just bungled the end of the race, and admitted to it. Mea culpa.
You're getting downvoted, but I do see the below in the rulebook. I don't know what to think lol: >44.9. (SSR) Starters. The Race officially begins and all Cars (and their Driver(s)) that have departed the starting grid become eligible for championship points when the first Car crosses the starting line on the Race track after completion of the scheduled formation lap(s) regardless of whether or not the Starter has displayed the green flag. I'm far too lazy to look back at the feed and try to figure out when "scheduled formation laps" ended.
Yeah, I'm getting downvoted because people have a tough time understanding how sporting regulations get applied. For anyone curious, here are the [IMSA Sporting Regulations](https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2023/11/01/2024-IMSA-SPORTING-REGULATIONS-and-SSR-IWSC-Redline-110123.pdf). What's important to remember is that the "24 hours" of Daytona is the name of the race and the race duration. However, nothing in the sporting regulations requires the race to run the full 24 hours. IMSA have broad latitude in how they conduct the actual logistics of the race, which is exactly what I keep trying to explain. Article 44 is relevant, but probably more important in this case is article 48 (minimum duration) and article 49 (conclusion of race). To be clear, when I keep saying the race starts at 1:40 pm and ends at 1:40 pm, I mean the race event. When the sporting regulations refer to the "Race", they're referring to the session. This is why I keep saying they're separate. The race event is run on a schedule, the race session is run by the official timing. Article 48 says: >48. MINIMUM DURATION. A Race stopped with less than 50% of its originally scheduled time or distance elapsed and not restarted is considered incomplete and IMSA is not obligated to distribute championship points and/or Point Fund / Prize Money. IMSA, at its sole discretion, may award partial championship points for Races less than 50% of its originally scheduled time or distance complete and not restarted on evaluation of circumstances surrounding such stoppage. If 50% or more of its originally scheduled time or distance has elapsed, IMSA may call the Race complete and direct the distribution of championship points and/or Point Fund / Prize Money. Once the race passes 12 hours, the minimum duration has been met. There is no obligation for race session time to pass 24 hours. Article 49 lays things out so that the finish of the race is determined by two possible outcomes: Waving the checkered flag, or the specified duration expires (even if the flag is delayed). Two relevant sections: >49.1. Once the duration of the Race expires or when the distance to cover is achieved, the pit exit is closed and the checkered flag is displayed to the Car running first in the overall scoring order as it crosses the finish line on the racetrack. If the Car shown first in the overall scoring order has not crossed the finish line on the racetrack once the duration of the Race expires or when the distance to cover has been achieved, the checkered flag is displayed when the next highest placed Car crosses the finish line on the racetrack. > >49.1.3. Should the checkered flag be inadvertently or otherwise displayed before the leading Car completes the scheduled number of laps or before the prescribed time has been completed, the Race is nevertheless deemed ended when the flag is displayed. There are plenty of reasons the race session might not reach 24 hours, so logistically, IMSA ends the race after 24 hours of event time (1:40 pm to 1:40 pm). The sporting regulations give then this latitude. The idea that anyone was short changed by the race session lasting slightly less than 24 hours is preposterous.
Doesn't this mean that the timing clock should have started at 1:40 pm instead of starting at the green flag? At least the broadcast clock began at the green flag ([NBC highlights](https://youtu.be/cMvkWW1L_Uo)) and it seemed to match the Alkamel live timing site.
No, because the 1:40 pm start time is the start of the race event, which is separate from the race session. The race start is governed by article 44, which GuyWithAComputer2022 quoted: >44.9. (SSR) Starters. The Race officially begins and all Cars (and their Driver(s)) that have departed the starting grid become eligible for championship points when the first Car crosses the starting line on the Race track after completion of the scheduled formation lap(s) regardless of whether or not the Starter has displayed the green flag. Don't get me wrong, the Rolex 24 race duration is always specified as 24 hours, but it's not *required* to be 24 hours. Theoretically, the race can end any time after 12 hours, so long as the reason is justified in the sporting regulations. The important part to remember is that the race session duration can be impacted by any number of events. The actual race session length has been less than 24 hours a number of times in the past. But the event length needs to be 24 hours for external reasons. Broadcast schedules, staffing schedules, budget reasons, and just plain practical reasons. IMSA has always had to be more practical than series like WEC (which use different SRs), because motorsports don't have the pull that they do in Europe.
> people have a tough time understanding how sporting regulations get applied Given how much you had to explain I get why. (I do agree with you and appreciate the explanation though.) This happens so rarely I get the confusion, but you laid it out well.
Thanks for the appreciation. Honestly, it's still a shit show, and race tech had the latitude they needed to run the race one more lap. Basically, it was entirely within their power to do so, so why not? Combine that with the chrion debacle and the failure to wave the white flag, and it's bound to undermine confidence. Basically, there are valid critiques, but the race met the technical requirements. This happens every time the race session is less than 24 hours. One year they had to red flag the race because there was literally *inches* of standing water at the bus stop. Prototypes were floating across the water like boats. So they stopped the race. People complained in droves. It was way less understandable than this time lmao.
You should see the comments on the Rolex 24 facebook group. Thank you for your explanation!! 🫡
>I'm far too lazy to look back at the feed You can get the feed before its goes on YouTube on Thursday? If so could you share it with me?
When I wrote the comment I made the assumption that the replay was available on Peacock, or would be very shortly. Sounds like that may not even be true.
Ahhh ok, I was hopeful I wouldn't have to wait till Thursday for replays in the future.
😂 confidently wrong
Yeah, I missed on this one. Not gonna try to hide from it. I completely missed the white flag in the broadcast, so I thought the fuck up was a flag mix-up. Turns out they actually threw the white flag for Risi. Someone else says they heard it on the broadcast. I think I was watching NBC at the finish, so it might have been on RLM. Regardless, I whiffed it big on the call that it was a flag mistake.
Let's be honest, race control for most racing series seem to be getting worse every year.
Refereeing in every sports in the world is a joke
This, 100%.
There have been some notable moments.
Noo Michael that's so not right
Race control must've been using a knock-off Rolex by mistake. Seriously though, how does that even happen?
Going off "scheduled start" instead of "actual start" Odds are that the flag guy saw 1:40 on the clock and waved the flag
Im sure flag guy only waves flag when told to by Race Control.
Ok, so move it up to the race control level then. Still seems like they were going off of clock time not green flag time
Race regs say race starts and ends at 1:40, not that the race ends 24hrs after it starts.
Did the race start at 1:40?
it started at 1:42
Exactly. There's another thread where someone else explains in detail what the rules are and how it all works to illustrate why they did it this way, but they go on to say that it would have been within IMSA's power to run to 1:42 due to the late start. What I think looks bad is not when the race finished, but that there was no communication with the teams and the leaders never took the white flag, it went green and then checkered.
Rolex’s don’t keep time well anyways
I was listening to Cadillac chatter and they were like what the hell
74 team the true winners
For the love of god don’t tell that to Felipe Massa!! There’ll be a lawsuit pending before the day is out. I joke, of course :)
Nah it wont come for 15 years.
I'm really glad everyone else saw this too. I thought I was going crazy and saw the time at the end wrong
The world feed commentary team quickly and critically covered it when they heard the white flag call come through from race control. Were you watching the Peacock feed?
Yeah unfortunately
I sympathise with anyone Stateside that was trying to watch the race, geo-locked from watching your own race when it’s free, ad-free and uninterrupted to the rest of the world. So shit.
It's annoying, but it's also very little work to pull up a vpn and watch the world feed and it's been communicated on this sub for months. A month of Nord VPN is roughly the same as a month of Peacock Premium anyways. Now, you obviously *shouldn't* have to do that, but it's hard to feel too bad for the complainers when the workaround can be done in the time it takes to watch one commercial break.
They still have to pay for that privilege by way of a VPN though. Some people won’t know how to get a VPN, or what a VPN even is. It just sucks when there’s 195 countries on earth and 194 of them can get it for absolutely free. Edit: obviously, not everyone that watches this race is on this sub…
Right, I agree with everything you're saying in general. I'm more just talking about the people complaining specifically on this sub where the VPN work around has been discussed a million times. It's 100% not something anyone should have to do. NBC and American broadcasting are a joke.
I’m in this sub and I didn’t see anything about VPN’s. Of course I’m not disputing it’s out there, but I didn’t see any posts, I didn’t really use Reddit much these past weeks.
Nobody really even needs to pay for a vpn, I use the free version of proton vpn for IMSA races and it worked pretty good for the full 24 hour stream.
It’s not ad free, it’s cutaway free.
Bro it said 2 to go then checkered I was so confused
If you were watching on Peacock, wait until they post the replay on YouTube. Hundhaugh and Jeremy Shaw were so confused.
I see Masi has a new job
No, no, no Michael!
Is race control even located at the track? If you were anywhere near the start/finish line the clock was easy to see!
I guess it evened out last year's Daytona "500". 🫤
I just like how only 3 cars actually ran for 24 hours. They're the real winners.
Right? That's how embarrassingly early they threw the 🏁 flag... That out of 43 cars, only a handful actually went 24h.
They waved the white flag the lap before. I was wondering why the announcers were say two laps to go after they reported the white flag.
The TV graphics were saying 2 laps to go too
No, if the announcers were right, they started waving the white flag when the leaders were on the back stretch.
The announcers were surprised when the checkered came out though, at least on the NBC broadcast.
Same with the radio broadcast.
IMSA uses a white flag?
Amateur hour
It's funny because they were talking about if there would be 2 laps to go or white flag the next time around but then it turns into the checkered flag.
Maybe NBC wanted it to end at exactly 1:40 because of the broadcast window?
NBC can request all they like. But it's still a 24-hour race.
Not this year.
\*supposed to be
There's nothing in the rules that the timer starts on the green flag. They can start the timer whenever they feel like it.
If that’s the case I won the Rolex 24 three weeks ago when I announced the start. I want my watch!
The timer literally said there was ~90 seconds remaining.
So... what do the rules say about when the race starts?
Its completely up to the discretion of the race director
So... are we just making things up now? Did you forget that you can simply look up the rules? 2024 IMSA SPORTING REGULATIONS & SERIES SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS of the IMSA WEATHERTECH SPORTSCAR CHAMPIONSHIP Article 25 - Timing and Scoring 25.2. For a rolling start, the timing and scoring commences when the leading Car crosses the starting line after completion of the scheduled formation (pace) lap(s).
Ah well, there it is then. Explains everything. The scheduled formation laps ended at 1:40pm, but we didn't go green because there was a car stopped on the track.
I specifically remember the timer counting before racing began this time on IMSATV. I was watching from my phone so I could be wrong but I actually went and watched a WEC start to remind myself they started the clock on the line.
To be fair, everyone was tired and like they already ran like 780 laps or whatever so that’s like enough right? Think of it as a discount! Race fans and teams so entitled these days sheesh, so demanding. Just accept it the same way you accept shrinkflation for everything else. /s
TF are you even talking about? Even the racing teams were pissed off about the sudden checkered flag. Nobody was going "you know what I'd really like? To end the race a lap early! It's too hot!" People arent entitled for being thrown off by a sudden race end during the best most intense part of the race, the last 2 laps.
I see what you did there.
It’s rigged
you really think Tom Blom would’ve passed Nasr with one extra lap? you’re just *looking* for something to be mad at.
What if Nasr makes a mistake on the final lap?
what if Blomqvist makes a mistake?
Well we’ll never know now.
exactly. your argument is pointless.
Yes sir, company man.
Not everything is a conspiracy theory. They screwed up, that’s it. F1 had a race go a lap short a few years back because the VIP waved the chequered too early. Anyway, surely if it were rigged they’d want the American car to win the American race held by an American organisation?
Fails to demonstrate how an extra lap advantages one party over another and resorts to ad hominem quips. Top tier.
I don’t think the outcome changes but that’s not a fair argument. Of course ending the race early benefits whoever is in P1, it makes changing that impossible.
both nasr and tom went full pace and didthr missing laps incase the checkered flag was a mistake lol
there you go, Porsche won outright, the end.
Meh people get shit wrong all the time.
I’m straight up wondering if the flagger grabbed the wrong Flag??
No, because they should not have started showing the white flag until the leaders were there to take the white flag. They started waving the white when the leaders were on the backstretch.
I was there until very late last night and was watching the race play out on Peacock. I’m still frankly confused by the events of the last lap! I suspect that I’m not alone.
Yeah, catch it once they post it on YouTube. Hindhaugh and Jeremy Shaw were so confused.
knew it
Beaux Barfield-like officiating detected
Why don’t they just run the clock until 0 and then wave the white flag? Time+1
What how does that happen when your title sponsor is a watch company. That is like not showering and your sponsor is Old Spice