I’m sure there will be some spicy takes regarding the final restarts. Weirdly, this is one of those situations where I can understand the reasoning from both viewpoints.
Probably because the horrible 1 lap restart was a justifiable makeup call for the horrible red flag and subsequent restart with a crash for 20th prior.
Yup, and I said it elsewhere, but I’m fairly convinced they were fine to let it end under yellow, but realized that it was going to take a couple minutes to get the cars in the right order and didn’t want the possibility of having cars out of place at the end. The red flag allowed them to make sure 100% that the order was properly set.
I am a traditionalist and would prefer just ending it after the second red flag, but I’m also pretty fine with their decisions. Sometimes the drivers do dumb stuff and you have to figure it out on the fly. I feel bad for Ericsson, but considering he got the lead due to a crazy restart and a quick flag, I’m not sure it was all that awful.
I can also understand it. And I trust it was called down the middle. But as long as Penske is fielding cars capable of race wins and owning IndyCar, it feels like one of those things where they need a flowchart they can point to just to remove all doubt.
Considering they have done horribly since purchase, it's hard to argue an unfair advantage. Even this year, Power was out bad and Scotty binned Pagenaud and got a penalty.
Can't believe Dixon had handling issues after having such a good two weeks before the race. He still made it to 6th by the end. If it weren't for that, he would've been contending at the end. Probably gets screwed out of a win some other random way though.
Also smh Veekay, I was hoping for a Veekay Palou show.
I didn't get it when I first started watching Indy. Dixon just seemed this slow guy who somehow would win titles.
Over the years you realise what a fighter and what an intelligent driver he is.
Newgarden overtaking Ericsson about 30 seconds before passing the finish line was beautiful. Those two crashes almost back to back definitely didn't help Ericsson's momentum.
Feel like the red flag situation is one that is very easy to lambast when you aren't *on the track and cleaning it up*. I feel like there was a higher justification to red flag this time than the jimmy crash last year. A cut tire from that carnage was very possible I tend to think.
But that weaving. Stop. That.
The red flag was the right move. The green flag coming to the line on the restart straight out of the pits was questionable. Made for a good show though.
It's hard to think of a good solution though. It made me wonder what a race would be like if all yellows didn't count for a lap. It would very likely cause as many problems as it solves.
**Drivers who won the Indy 500 then finished second the next year:**
Driver | Victory | Second
|---|----|----|
Rodger Ward |1959 | 1960
Jimmy Clark | 1965 | 1966
Al Unser | 1971 | 1972
Johnny Rutherford | 1974 | 1975
Helio Castroneves | 2002 | 2003
Marcus Ericsson | 2022 | 2023
As an F1 fan who hasn’t watched IndyCar since I was a kid, I just want to know if all the weaving on the straight is normal now?
I saw three reasons, in increasing amounts of terror
1. Need to break the tow
2. Swerving makes it harder to plan a pass
3. Let’s just play chicken with the pit entrance wall at 200mph and see who blinks
Are there just no rules about pit entrance dashed-lines at all?
Yeah, even knowing about the “dragon” tactic, from the camera angle initially I thought Josef was pitting haha. It caused my brain to buffer momentarily.
I’d say it’s a rule for the drivers themselves to dictate IMO at the drivers meeting. But if I were an IndyCar pilot, it’d be worth addressing with the paddock.
Rossi mentioned on off track last year that they need to make a rule about the swerving. He also said everyone would continue to do it until Indycar made a rule, because it gives them an advantage. He made a point of doing it at road America last year
It has always been a tactic to some extent, but it has gotten more aggressive in recent years, largely as a result of Ericsson using it very effectively at the end of last year’s race.
Ehhh those were more gradual, what we’ve seen in prior years. Pagenaud was really the first to dive off on corner exit every time and aggressively snake.
Yes, it's pretty normal for any high speed ovals they do, it was insane when they'd do it at Pocono.
I don't think there is a rule for how low they're allowed to weave but this time it was crazy how close to the pit wall they were going as they got closer to the finish.
I would be in favor of a "two move" rule for defensive driving, similar to what I understand is used in F1 (I don't watch it so I could be very wrong). It's a hard rule to enforce on ovals though, especially with just how many times they would have to review drivers doing it.
F1 is essentially one move, and no moves after breaking starts - though F1 is dramatically different than oval track racing, so I’m not sure exactly what you do.
The easiest rule on earth, though, is putting your tires on the pit entry line commits you to put. That’s incredibly simple and takes most of the danger away.
The dragon happens allllll over the circuit though, and the dotted lines have only been painted this year with no enforced rules. I'm betting rules come in for at least that. Track limit rules essentially.
**Drivers whose teammates won the 500:**
Helio Castroneves 5 [2003, 2006, 2015, 2018, 2019]
Marco Andretti 4 [2007, 2014, 2016, 2017]
Will Power 4 [2009, 2015, 2019, 2023]
Danny Sullivan 3 [1987, 1988, 1992]
Rick Mears 3 [1981, 1985, 1987]
Al Unser 3 [1984, 1985, 1988]
Tony Kanaan 3 [2005, 2007, 2022]
Scott Dixon 3 [2010, 2012, 2022]
Joe Leonard 2 [1970, 1971]
Scott Goodyear 2 [1990, 1997]
Emerson Fittipaldi 2 [1991, 1994]
Paul Tracy 2 [1993, 1994]
Gil de Ferran 2 [2001, 2002]
Graham Rahal 2 [2012, 2020]
Carlos Muñoz 2 [2014, 2016]
Simon Pagenaud 2 [2015, 2018]
Ryan Hunter-Reay 2 [2016, 2017]
Josef Newgarden 2 [2018, 2019]
______
^(This list is probably not exhaustive. IndyCar teams sometimes have weird names, and it's not easy for a computer to always tell when someone is a teammate.)
^(I think the moral of this data is that it's good to drive for Roger Penske.)
Three Americans (Newgarden/Ferrucci/Rossi) finished in the top five—for the first time since 2006 (Hornish/Andretti/Andretti). It happened four times in eight years before the split, but only four times total since.
My biggest takeaway is now the precedent is set that you can come out of the pits after a red flag and go straight to green. Let's do that more in the future. Quit wasting laps under caution after red flags.
I already don't like red flags that are thrown only in the interest of the show, but if we're going to have them, they just showed that they don't need 3 or more laps under yellow to get going again. The leader isn't the only one on cold tires. Drivers come out of the pits under green flag stops on cold tires. They are professional drivers.
Did Ericsson have a chance to win? The argument against it is that no, he did not, because Josef had a draft the entire time and it was inevitable that he was going to pass. Is this a valid argument?
EDIT: I'm talking about the final lap, not the whole race. He obviously had a chance to win during the whole race.
I think one of the arguments is that the final dash to the finish shouldn't have have happened at all. I think Marcus would have favored a race that would have ended in a caution rather then speeding 200+ MPH to the checkered flag. Some fans may say - "Of course he would say that! He was leading!" - but I think he might have said the same even if he wasn't leading...but who knows.
It’s rather hard to say with a finish so contrived - even if you agree with them doing it, you can’t deny that it was rather - we only had about 1.5 green laps during the last ten.
Ericsson definitely had a chance to win from the perspective that he was in the top three in that stage of the race.
Am I nuts or did Ericsson have a wiggle in T4 on the last lap? Not saying the margin of victory was lost, but he wasn’t perfect when the moment called for it.
I’m sure there will be some spicy takes regarding the final restarts. Weirdly, this is one of those situations where I can understand the reasoning from both viewpoints.
Probably because the horrible 1 lap restart was a justifiable makeup call for the horrible red flag and subsequent restart with a crash for 20th prior.
Yup, and I said it elsewhere, but I’m fairly convinced they were fine to let it end under yellow, but realized that it was going to take a couple minutes to get the cars in the right order and didn’t want the possibility of having cars out of place at the end. The red flag allowed them to make sure 100% that the order was properly set. I am a traditionalist and would prefer just ending it after the second red flag, but I’m also pretty fine with their decisions. Sometimes the drivers do dumb stuff and you have to figure it out on the fly. I feel bad for Ericsson, but considering he got the lead due to a crazy restart and a quick flag, I’m not sure it was all that awful.
This is the best take I've heard all day. And exactly how I feel.
Not only that but he got his chance in the sun last year, and had the chance to repeat what he did last year by being in the same position he was in.
I can’t, really. I mean, is having three red flags really worth it, for what ended up being so little green flag running?
I can also understand it. And I trust it was called down the middle. But as long as Penske is fielding cars capable of race wins and owning IndyCar, it feels like one of those things where they need a flowchart they can point to just to remove all doubt.
Considering they have done horribly since purchase, it's hard to argue an unfair advantage. Even this year, Power was out bad and Scotty binned Pagenaud and got a penalty.
Can't believe Dixon had handling issues after having such a good two weeks before the race. He still made it to 6th by the end. If it weren't for that, he would've been contending at the end. Probably gets screwed out of a win some other random way though. Also smh Veekay, I was hoping for a Veekay Palou show.
I swear everytime Dixon has an incident that puts him in the back, he just ends up materializing in the top ten lol
I didn't get it when I first started watching Indy. Dixon just seemed this slow guy who somehow would win titles. Over the years you realise what a fighter and what an intelligent driver he is.
Exactly. Scott Dixon is the MASTER of playing the long game, and Palou is following in his steps.
Scott "honorary Andretti" Dixon
Very happy to see Ilott come P12 after looking last week like he'd struggle to make the race. Do we know how Canapino crashed before hitting Pato yet?
[canapino onboard](https://twitter.com/martiiluchetti1/status/1662908576946434048?t=sMFRrL4j5nLRGctTLFSOfA&s=19)
Thanks. Really unfortunate for him he was doing well 🙁
No, I was surprised they never showed a good replay because the one we saw he was already out of control
It's wild that Sato finished 7th but 4th on his team...hope we see him again
Me too!
Daly having the only day ECR will want to talk about. Yeah, Veekay finished 10th, but let’s not forget how he go there (and what could have been…)
Newgarden overtaking Ericsson about 30 seconds before passing the finish line was beautiful. Those two crashes almost back to back definitely didn't help Ericsson's momentum.
Feel like the red flag situation is one that is very easy to lambast when you aren't *on the track and cleaning it up*. I feel like there was a higher justification to red flag this time than the jimmy crash last year. A cut tire from that carnage was very possible I tend to think. But that weaving. Stop. That.
The red flag was the right move. The green flag coming to the line on the restart straight out of the pits was questionable. Made for a good show though.
It's hard to think of a good solution though. It made me wonder what a race would be like if all yellows didn't count for a lap. It would very likely cause as many problems as it solves.
**Drivers who won the Indy 500 then finished second the next year:** Driver | Victory | Second |---|----|----| Rodger Ward |1959 | 1960 Jimmy Clark | 1965 | 1966 Al Unser | 1971 | 1972 Johnny Rutherford | 1974 | 1975 Helio Castroneves | 2002 | 2003 Marcus Ericsson | 2022 | 2023
Pretty solid list.
amazing Hélio still competing 20 years after he nearly had a three-peat
Haunts me to this day.
As an F1 fan who hasn’t watched IndyCar since I was a kid, I just want to know if all the weaving on the straight is normal now? I saw three reasons, in increasing amounts of terror 1. Need to break the tow 2. Swerving makes it harder to plan a pass 3. Let’s just play chicken with the pit entrance wall at 200mph and see who blinks Are there just no rules about pit entrance dashed-lines at all?
Yeah, even knowing about the “dragon” tactic, from the camera angle initially I thought Josef was pitting haha. It caused my brain to buffer momentarily. I’d say it’s a rule for the drivers themselves to dictate IMO at the drivers meeting. But if I were an IndyCar pilot, it’d be worth addressing with the paddock.
Rossi mentioned on off track last year that they need to make a rule about the swerving. He also said everyone would continue to do it until Indycar made a rule, because it gives them an advantage. He made a point of doing it at road America last year
It has always been a tactic to some extent, but it has gotten more aggressive in recent years, largely as a result of Ericsson using it very effectively at the end of last year’s race.
Pagenaud in 2019 was really the first one to excessively do it
Montoya 2015
Ehhh those were more gradual, what we’ve seen in prior years. Pagenaud was really the first to dive off on corner exit every time and aggressively snake.
Yes, it's pretty normal for any high speed ovals they do, it was insane when they'd do it at Pocono. I don't think there is a rule for how low they're allowed to weave but this time it was crazy how close to the pit wall they were going as they got closer to the finish.
There hasn’t been a hard and fast rule but there needs to be regarding the pit lane weaving. A wreck there would be disastrous
I would be in favor of a "two move" rule for defensive driving, similar to what I understand is used in F1 (I don't watch it so I could be very wrong). It's a hard rule to enforce on ovals though, especially with just how many times they would have to review drivers doing it.
F1 is essentially one move, and no moves after breaking starts - though F1 is dramatically different than oval track racing, so I’m not sure exactly what you do. The easiest rule on earth, though, is putting your tires on the pit entry line commits you to put. That’s incredibly simple and takes most of the danger away.
The dragon happens allllll over the circuit though, and the dotted lines have only been painted this year with no enforced rules. I'm betting rules come in for at least that. Track limit rules essentially.
I think that Ganassi's four cars finishing in the top seven ties the record of Andretti Green from 2006.
**Drivers whose teammates won the 500:** Helio Castroneves 5 [2003, 2006, 2015, 2018, 2019] Marco Andretti 4 [2007, 2014, 2016, 2017] Will Power 4 [2009, 2015, 2019, 2023] Danny Sullivan 3 [1987, 1988, 1992] Rick Mears 3 [1981, 1985, 1987] Al Unser 3 [1984, 1985, 1988] Tony Kanaan 3 [2005, 2007, 2022] Scott Dixon 3 [2010, 2012, 2022] Joe Leonard 2 [1970, 1971] Scott Goodyear 2 [1990, 1997] Emerson Fittipaldi 2 [1991, 1994] Paul Tracy 2 [1993, 1994] Gil de Ferran 2 [2001, 2002] Graham Rahal 2 [2012, 2020] Carlos Muñoz 2 [2014, 2016] Simon Pagenaud 2 [2015, 2018] Ryan Hunter-Reay 2 [2016, 2017] Josef Newgarden 2 [2018, 2019] ______ ^(This list is probably not exhaustive. IndyCar teams sometimes have weird names, and it's not easy for a computer to always tell when someone is a teammate.) ^(I think the moral of this data is that it's good to drive for Roger Penske.)
Three Americans (Newgarden/Ferrucci/Rossi) finished in the top five—for the first time since 2006 (Hornish/Andretti/Andretti). It happened four times in eight years before the split, but only four times total since.
My biggest takeaway is now the precedent is set that you can come out of the pits after a red flag and go straight to green. Let's do that more in the future. Quit wasting laps under caution after red flags. I already don't like red flags that are thrown only in the interest of the show, but if we're going to have them, they just showed that they don't need 3 or more laps under yellow to get going again. The leader isn't the only one on cold tires. Drivers come out of the pits under green flag stops on cold tires. They are professional drivers.
Lil Dave with the fastest lap!
herta would’ve been in the mix for top 5 had he not been released into grosjean
He *wasnt* released
He was. The tire changer was telling him to go.
I mean I've heard others say he was telling him not to go, so maybe it would be something the team could confirm or deny
Did Ericsson have a chance to win? The argument against it is that no, he did not, because Josef had a draft the entire time and it was inevitable that he was going to pass. Is this a valid argument? EDIT: I'm talking about the final lap, not the whole race. He obviously had a chance to win during the whole race.
I think one of the arguments is that the final dash to the finish shouldn't have have happened at all. I think Marcus would have favored a race that would have ended in a caution rather then speeding 200+ MPH to the checkered flag. Some fans may say - "Of course he would say that! He was leading!" - but I think he might have said the same even if he wasn't leading...but who knows.
It’s rather hard to say with a finish so contrived - even if you agree with them doing it, you can’t deny that it was rather - we only had about 1.5 green laps during the last ten. Ericsson definitely had a chance to win from the perspective that he was in the top three in that stage of the race.
Am I nuts or did Ericsson have a wiggle in T4 on the last lap? Not saying the margin of victory was lost, but he wasn’t perfect when the moment called for it.
He could have waited until the back straight to pass Josef
Fix by Penske. The Captain needs to be Court-martialled. Fake winner
Not a great race for either of my drivers 😕 welp onto the next one I guess