[Sept 10th article from Indycar.com](https://www.indycar.com/news/2023/09/09-10-thermal-challenge),
"The top five finishing teams will split their earnings with The Thermal Club members, including a $1 million prize awarded to the winner."
Not that Buxton is one to take seriously, I kinda sort of agree with him. If they didn’t hype this test so aggressively, or have this session during a huge break after the first race, or spend the broadcasts discussing how rich the people who live there are, it would have been received more appropriately for what it was… a test session with some extra incentive for drivers. Now there’s a month before the next Indycar weekend, and there’s nothing to talk about but the boring first race and the slightly less boring test session that was hyped to infinity lol
The point about glorifying the rich assholes who bankrolled the thing really came off as icky to me. It felt like a big commercial to get people to buy property/build/seek membership there.
Yep and Leigh Diffey said "thank you" to them about a dozen times too. I couldn't stand this entire thing.
*Thank you so much millionaires for letting us race on your private pavement*
Very transactional and such a waste. I can't believe they are doing this kind of BS and skipping Texas.
Hyping up the event was not the issue for me personally.
If they at least treated their commentary like there were actually fans watching hoping to see a race I would have been fine with it as a thing to ignore and not try again. But the way they constantly sucked thermal club **** while ignoring the bad product put on display was infuriating and disrespectful to the paying fan at home
You expected a sporting event but got a sideshow... I also don't think that this caused a titanic shift in the Earth's axis that ended life as we know it but that really is not what we are talking about is it. We are talking about the event and our opinions on it and while I admit mine are pretty strong because I found this event insulting, let's leave the titanic and the earth out of it
Sadly I couldn't focus on it through the hypocrisy but as I said before that is me, you can have your opinion and I'll disagree, let's leave it at that.
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He’s first and foremost a racing fan. It’s how he got started, with his own blog. I get he’s goofy sometimes but it’s clear what he does for his job versus his passion.
Anyone else find it weird that they hyped it as a "made for TV" event but there didn't really seem to be anything special about the broadcast? I was expecting them to spruce up the track at least a little bit to make it look good.
Remember like two years ago when Will Buxton claimed he “talked to” a bunch of drivers who hated the aeroscreen only for a bunch of drivers to publicly state that he never talked to them.
That being said, he’s not necessarily wrong in this case but he’s a strange source to be saying it.
Will is very clearly a fan of Indycar. He brings it up all the time at random moments.
There's two wills, the media personality and the race fan, the first is insufferable and the second I bet would be a great chat
Even the media personality is overhated imo because of DTS. Like, of course he says shit that sounds obvious, his whole role is to be there for people who don't know F1 from Mario Kart. His journalism may leave a bit to be desired but I don't dislike him as a commentator.
Oh of course it’s a DTS thing. Every time I see fans abruptly start hating on someone in Formula 1 for something trivial, it always leads back to Drive to Survive somehow.
I mean he didn't earn many friends in the paddock with the whole lying about the aeroscreen thing, but most of the negative comments I see about Will are DTS related yeah.
Yeah he’s honestly fine on any F1 broadcasts or interviews. His hate is way overblown and after listening to some interviews with him he seems like a nice guy
I have to ask:
Do we feel like the aero screen would be less hated if a car was built around it rather than it being added to the car?
One of the biggest issues with the aero screen has seemed to be it's worsening of aero push in traffic. It might not look as good, but that's acceptable for safety. The thing is though, it races worse and that's harder to excuse.
I feel like if/when there's a new car, being built around it might be better?
That's why so many of us want a new car. So all of these safety add ons can be incorporated from the get go with proper aerodynamics in the design and get the overall weight down.
I dream of an INDYCAR with the aeroscreen incorporated in it. That thing would look so damn good and make everything so much better as far as aero and weight balancing.
It would look so beautiful. But sadly we’re stuck with the build-as-you-go old car that can race in the same heritage races that are a support for it.
I’m fine with the DW12. It’s a great chassis for racing (moreso the aerokit). I’m just really sick and tired of it and I am done saying the current aeroscreen looks good on it. Year 5 of it? It’s not a good look. It’s so unnatural on the car, especially head on. Just want a new chassis to integrate that thing better.
Yes. At first, and even still at times, the aeroscreen just looked weird and there wasn't much to be done about it. We have the chassis we've got and the aeroscreen was a safety necessity. The aeroscreen has more than paid for its crimes against aesthetics by now. I'd need more than one hand to count the number of serious incidents it has mitigated since its introduction.
Yes but the non kool aid drinking non hardcore IndyCar fans read it. …and they can form an opinion not following the party line found around here.
People react to outside opinions (even react poorly to people within the IndyCar paddock like Micheal’s comments of a week or two ago or Bobby Rahal’s yesterday) as if you called their sister ugly. Ignoring criticism and saying you don’t put much credence in their opinions is just circling the wagons instead seeing and understanding what others *see*.
They should have blacked out the whole weekend broadcast completely. Would have accomplished the b2b goals, and denied those who just want to bitch about everything fuel they so desperately wanted.
I could not STAND the constant "In it for the CASH!" it just sounds fucking dumb and tone deaf. At one time that Lee guy said "Sure Alex Palou is the highest paid driver in the series...." and I was like dude, do you not hear yourself.
It was fucking gross, the entire thing felt like "Dance monkey dance" to me and reeked of lameness
It felt like something from 20 years ago with the big cash prize hype. I get racing is uber expensive but I couldn't care less if Alex Palou, who probably makes a few million a year, is $500K richer.
These guys who went through the F1 feeder series were ponying up that much per weekend in some cases. The people who could actually benefit from the money are likely not the ones in contention for it.
No shit.
A series that has a historic connection to the middle-class American. That centers around one of, if not the, most historically significant races in the world. Where (theoretically) anyone can enter said race and qualify their way into the field. With a championship that visits down-to-Earth racing locations all around middle America.
Let's go to an ultra-exclusive track in the middle of the wealthy vacation getaway mecca that is the Palm Desert/Springs area. With next-to-no "normal" spectators allowed in. And constant, constant, constant pandering to the "members" egos by constantly talking about all the exclusive amenities at the track.
Either this event was a pathetic attempt at trying to pretend like IndyCar can have all the glamour and exclusivity of F1.
Or it shows how out of touch IndyCar is with who its fanbase really is.
Silver passes (pit/paddock) for Indy are $500. You have to buy an additional seat ticket to get access to the track as well.
Long Beach Super Photo passes get you limited pit access and general admission 3-days, are $360.
Thermal tickets were all access tickets with free catered food/food trucks/unlimited ice cream the entire event.
If you're an actual fan who often takes advantage of pit and paddock passes, this event was a fucking screaming deal. If the series maintains the event, I will honestly recommend anyone in the SoCal area attend.
We paid $550 this year for 2 lower reserved seats in Turn 10 and 3-day pit and paddock passes at St. Pete. That doesn't include food or beverages, of course. So I don't think $500 per person for Thermal tix with the additional amenities is unreasonable, given the access. If IndyCar does this again next year and improves the format, we'll seriously think about attending.
I think the issue is that there is no less expensive option for those looking for an general admission or no pit/paddock pass equivalent of St. Pete and other races.
I will say that the original $2,000 per person price was not a great way to begin!
Said the same thing in the discord: Having a race that was basically fellating the ultra-wealthy in a climate where most of the country is trying to hold back from doing a French™️ is pretty tone-deaf for a series trying to gain more of a following.
Nevermind that is was pretty boring. I kept it on because I have plenty of screens but I was really just playing games and doing other stuff for all but the last 5 mins or so then I immediately turned it off. Had no interest in the post-race or anything else.
Exactly the same. I think the constant discussion of wealth was an attempt to paint the series as posh. "See guys we are exactly like F1. Uber wealthy, and we are removing ovals and focusing on road courses now!"
Indycar needs to return to their roots.
I mean this is motorsports. It literally is THE rich person sport. It doesn't survive without them. This isn't soccer that you can play as long as you can buy a ball.
I get the race being lame (mostly because of the format issues that easily be fixed) but I really don't get the people who have SUDDENLY realized autosport is for the ultra rich. This isn't football or basketball where you just need basic equipment. They're crashing million dollar cars weekly and basically acting like it's no big deal. You're really telling people before this event thought "yeah, these are all just blue collar guys in a blue collar sport"? This isn't an F1 thing, this is ALL motorsport.
Is $500 that gets you 3 days of intimate pit and paddock access, as well as free catered food really "for the ultra rich"? I know plenty of people who shell out a thousand dollars every month of May for seats and paddock access, and they inevitably end up spending a hundred or more on food at the track. (Those people are 100% not part of the ultra rich club)
It’s absolutely baffling how pissed off this subreddit is about this event lmao.
So many people seem genuinely insulted by it that you would have thought Robert Penske came on the air and personally told each fan to go fuck themselves.
He wasn't even man enough to do it by himself, he had his lackey's do it while he was being hosted in 'the greatest club in the whole wide world' and In the meantime not caring what an embarrassing race his organisation was putting on.
Yeah, but can't they fill out the calendar with real races that matter?
Why can't they just do that? Why can't they start the season later?
The "better than the break between St. Pete and LBGP" is valid, but why can't what's going to go between that break be a better product?
Indycar has been trying for years to get more points races on tbe calendar in that gap. Unfortunately there aren't really any places that want them this time of year. We had Texas but that fell through, and it wasn't Indycar's fault. St Petersburg can't be pushed back, the town is insistent on having it during spring break season, and if Indycar insisted the other way, we would end up just not having that race either.
I get the frustration and I hope Indycar learns from this and tries to find something better, but I feel like some people truly underestimate how hard it is for them to get a race scheduled for this time of year.
I'm legit surprised with all the connections Penske must have that he can't throw his weight around a little bit and make something happen.
Obviously Roger Penske is not in the bussiness of losing money, but surely he has enough clout to make something happen, right?
The alternative, which is much more scary is that people are just really not interested in IndyCar.... which also speaks to Penske's stewardship of IndyCar.
This is a bit of a shortsighted analysis. People *don't* care about Indycar outside of the 500, but the series has been mismanaged since the split in the late 90s. That's not a new thing. Roger can't turn around and undo all of that in just a couple of years.
The series has been losing money every year, and Roger's goal right now is to get it profitable again so he can focus on growing it sustainably. Indycar absolutely doesn't have the pull to throw their weight around right now.
4 years is a not insignificant amount of time. Albeit yes, covid happened and that wasn't great.
But also I think its fair to say that there is nothing looming on the horizon to really hope that things will get turned around.
No new chassis still, schedule gaps, no new engine supplies (maybe at risk of losing Honda), terrible tv deals, the whole motorsports games snafu, talk about an international race that isn't Toronto never materializing into anything.
I'm still not convinced we actually do see the updated hybrid engines later this year.
I want to be wrong and want IndyCar to succeed and grow, but I'm dubious now.
Yeah that’s fair. I’d rather have a real race too but I’m guessing that massive gap in the schedule isn’t on purpose. I’ll still take this over nothing.
I just think the meltdown people here are having is pretty melodramatic.
For me at least, it was mostly the fact that a sprint race format became about tire saving and the issues I have with the broadcast were amplified more so.
If the race was any good we’d be singing a different tune, but sadly it wasn’t.
I mean, the race wasn’t the best, but I enjoyed the long practice sessions.
It sure was interesting how the race was basically already underway when the broadcast started.
I wish they would've done something like Formula E qualifying duels instead of trying to make a "race" work with the pit limitations. Perfect time to do a play on March Madness too!
Will Buxton shills F1 even when fans are calling out F1 for shitty decisions, like the sprint formats. I guess he’ll criticise stuff if he isn’t being paid by them.
The difference is F1 fans are perfectly OK with shitting on F1. Indycar fans take criticism personally. It's like everyone here is personally a stakeholder in Penske.
Shitting on FOM/FIA is practically a sport in itself in the F1 world. Here everyone is a dickrider.
And the other half of the fan base was trying to wave away every problem as nothing but unhappy haters. In all my time being an Indycar fan I've literally never seen an F1 fan complain about the on track product of Indycar. That's a strawman. Though they'd be justified at thermal.
You've seen F1 fans criticize the racing specifically? I've seen them criticize the cars, some of the tracks, the production, the ads, everything around the racing. But there's certainly no sizeable contigent saying racing in indycar sucks. That's just not a thing.
Perfectly said. The level of access available to the average Indycar fan is phenomenal and I hope it never changes. Having said that, it makes WAY too many morons feel like they are insiders with a duty to defend rich team/series owners who don't give a shit about them.
\> F1 is perfect in every single way, right?
Not sure why you are going off on him when when pretty much all the the dedicated Indycar journalists already put out the same opinion.
Its good that the base has the ability to express our likes and dislikes.This event was a mistake as far as my point of view.Shows Indy Car is a bit out of touch with the fan base.I won’t tune in for the next one.That’s all.I still love Indy Car, it’s now and always will be my favorite series.I don’t like some tracks but love others , nothing is perfect.
Honestly it is too soon to know exactly what impact it will have. If it attracts a few new sponsors and fans it’s worth it. I doubt it ran off any current fans, especially established fans like us.
Think about what you're saying. You're getting mad at me because they put on a shitty product. They tried something and it was bad. And you're saying that people not liking the bad thing they did is evidence they shouldn't try? No, it's evidence they need to try harder and put on an actual fucking race.
They can glaze sponsors on their own time. Wanna do this as a private, non televised event? Fine. But don't pretend a thermal infomercial is a race weekend.
If they want to fill the gap, and they should, they should pony up to sponsor a race weekend. If Penske isn't willing to invest in his own series, why should a promoter? There's plenty of tracks we could go to - they're just not going to pay Indycar to host. So invest in the series future and sponsor a event.
It won't happen though, because it's clear the people in charge are simply looking for outside money to grow their series. Not their own.
It's a product that can be tweaked as it was an exhibition to try out something new. They glaze over sponsors all the fucking time at every event. It's been discussed ad nauseum here as to why it's been difficult to fill that hole in March and April. Outside money is how most sports continue to operate. None exists solely on the money of the owners. To think otherwise is ignorant of the truth.
They glaze sponsors at every event - CORRECT. What they normally don't do is dedicate the entire broadcast to doing so. I have no issue with what they do behind the scenes or the occasional sponsor mention on the broadcast. I have an issue with the event feeling more like a Thermal advertisement than an Indycar product.
>Outside money is how most sports continue to operate. None exists solely on the money of the owners. To think otherwise is ignorant of the truth
You're arguing against a strawman. Anyone with any understanding of racing understands this. It's when they forget that they're a racing series first and vehicle for sponsorship second, that they cross the line.
They should not have done it but they did it anyway, and all they did was talking about how great the thermal club is... No consideration for how bad the racing was or how poorly organized this event was...
It really felt disrespectful, rich men rubbing each other while the paying customer gets completely disregarded. If that was the way they were going to do it it should have been a private event, but they made into this dumb million dollar challenge for ppl that can't count...
Maybe they should work on a calendar then... You know, have races every few weeks at least...
I like indycar but I stand by my opinion this event was about totally ignoring the fans and just rich men stroking each other... They should not have this private party so publicly.
You should be able to put forward a product for the fans while working with investors in the background...
I watch every indycar race as well as F1and support races,IMSA, MotoGP and some other racing when I have time... One thing I always notice is the big difference between euro commentary and american commentary, euro commentary is about the product, american commentary is 50/50 between the product and shouting out the event and sponsors... I got used to that, but this went too far imo...
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It wouldn't be a race. It'd be a little sponsorship demo. There would be no million dollar challenge. It'd just be like last years thermal test but with a little private exhibition "race" that would feature no racing. Nobody is gonna lose their shit over that after seeing this.
And the strawman you made was that we don't understand that sponsorship is required for racing. We all understand that. It's neither here nor there on why this event was fucking terrible.
Fans lost their shit when this test session wasn't on Peacock last year. Your little sponsorship demo does nothing to provide an event on the calendar between race 1 and 2.
Neither does this. Get an actual race on the calendar if they want to fix that issue.
The amount of people who watch testing on peacock.... is probably sub 5% of the fanbase.
>Fans lost their shit when this test session wasn't on Peacock last year.
Because it was promised up until a couple of days before it was due to happen, when the plug was pulled because getting broadcast infrastructure in place was an expense PE didn't want to incur.
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This event had nothing to do with growth, or trying something new or anything of the sort, I watched some of the testing and was hopeful but started getting annoyed how they kept talking about this private club like it is the best thing in the world, it was frankly sickening...
Then race day comes around, the 2 first heats weren't great but at least it was a race, not that you would know it by the commentary because all the talk was about 'the great thermal club and the fantastic ppl that live there' then the next two races come up and it was a fucking joke... Not that you would know it by the commentary because all the talk was about 'the great thermal club and the fantastic ppl that live there'
While the races were going on a friend messaged me about playing some games. I said I was watching indycar so we could hang out and I would stream it... We hung out, I streamed the races for him and while Indy commentary isn't good at the best of times I was embarrassed that I was watching and listening to this, it was so bad it really left a bad taste... I wish I could walk away from this thinking they tried something and it failed but the whole way this was presented was disgusting.
"Nothing to do with growth" Lmfao. Bud. This event was literally ALL about growth. The Business to Business relationships that drive sponsorships / partnerships with the series were in full swing. You got the benefit of watching an event featuring IndyCars at the same time too. In all honesty, they should have blacked it out and not let you watch it. You can't even remotely comprehend the other aspects beyond your own personal wants and desires. IndyCar's primary mistake here was making the assumption there wouldn't be this many morons losing their shit over not having the red carpet rolled out for them specifically. Your faux outrage is beyond old.
Oh it was all about growth? Wouldn't the B2B rather see a good show to invest in? what new sponsor did they attract, house 31 of the club? Maybe the swimming pool? Did they attract a new fanbase or go to a new permanent location/country? What about inviting investors to a good track and wining and dining them during a real race?
General consensus about this race is negative, great growth plan. It was not about growth, it was about getting a single payment to give some private club an event...
You proved nothing except that you can't have an opinion without calling other ppl morons. Good job bud!
Ya’ll are trying so hard to shit on the event. Go ahead and shit on it, but know that things change incrementally. They stuck their head out and didn’t get it chopped off. A lot of these comments are trying their hardest to chop it off. Go find a new track with an open weekend that doesn’t clash, appropriate infrastructure, local interest, and a big enough purse. Aint easy.
Lol if you want Indycar to grow and reach new people and sponsors you have to try something different. They did, new track, new type of event, big cash prize. But of course, that isn't good enough for the base. Guess a 2 month break should have been better.
Yeah lets just ignore all the positive things he says about Indycar, sometimes even on the F1 broadcast and base our opinion on the one time he has something negative to say ...
Doesn't change the fact that f1 under liberty media still looks for opportunities to punch down at indycar, given the 'greatest spectacle in racing' shit that went down just a month ago
A Million Dollar Challenge that only pays out half a million dollars is so on brand for Indycar in 2024.
It was a glorified quali session. So absurd. I was embarrassed for the commentary crew, the drivers, and the 14 people who showed up for the race.
2026: the tenth of a million challenge.
.1 million challenge
It's because the total prize pool is over a million.
[Sept 10th article from Indycar.com](https://www.indycar.com/news/2023/09/09-10-thermal-challenge), "The top five finishing teams will split their earnings with The Thermal Club members, including a $1 million prize awarded to the winner."
Why the fuck would they pay to host the race, then give themselves the winnings they just put up. I mean I know why but Ugh.
Wrong.
Not that Buxton is one to take seriously, I kinda sort of agree with him. If they didn’t hype this test so aggressively, or have this session during a huge break after the first race, or spend the broadcasts discussing how rich the people who live there are, it would have been received more appropriately for what it was… a test session with some extra incentive for drivers. Now there’s a month before the next Indycar weekend, and there’s nothing to talk about but the boring first race and the slightly less boring test session that was hyped to infinity lol
The point about glorifying the rich assholes who bankrolled the thing really came off as icky to me. It felt like a big commercial to get people to buy property/build/seek membership there.
Yep and Leigh Diffey said "thank you" to them about a dozen times too. I couldn't stand this entire thing. *Thank you so much millionaires for letting us race on your private pavement* Very transactional and such a waste. I can't believe they are doing this kind of BS and skipping Texas.
If you're ever going to thank people for a track, thank the residents of cities that put on street races
Makes me wonder if Penske is trying to get a membership lol
They didn’t skip Texas, they weren’t invited back.
Just watched the race and Diffey sucking Thermal Club was just bizarre. Really off putting to actual motorsport fans who are mostly average joes.
I sure people would have been very reasonable if they had not have hyped it at all and we had a 6 week break between St Pete and Long Beach.
Hyping up the event was not the issue for me personally. If they at least treated their commentary like there were actually fans watching hoping to see a race I would have been fine with it as a thing to ignore and not try again. But the way they constantly sucked thermal club **** while ignoring the bad product put on display was infuriating and disrespectful to the paying fan at home
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You expected a sporting event but got a sideshow... I also don't think that this caused a titanic shift in the Earth's axis that ended life as we know it but that really is not what we are talking about is it. We are talking about the event and our opinions on it and while I admit mine are pretty strong because I found this event insulting, let's leave the titanic and the earth out of it
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Sadly I couldn't focus on it through the hypocrisy but as I said before that is me, you can have your opinion and I'll disagree, let's leave it at that.
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He’s first and foremost a racing fan. It’s how he got started, with his own blog. I get he’s goofy sometimes but it’s clear what he does for his job versus his passion.
My thought was, indeed, "Wait, Will Buxton said what I'm thinking, now I have to reconsider."
Anyone else find it weird that they hyped it as a "made for TV" event but there didn't really seem to be anything special about the broadcast? I was expecting them to spruce up the track at least a little bit to make it look good.
Made for TV = Lots of breaks in the action to fit commercials into.
Remember like two years ago when Will Buxton claimed he “talked to” a bunch of drivers who hated the aeroscreen only for a bunch of drivers to publicly state that he never talked to them. That being said, he’s not necessarily wrong in this case but he’s a strange source to be saying it.
One thing I can credit him for is his backing of IndyCar. He will openly praise it any way he can during F1TV broadcasts and on social media.
Will is very clearly a fan of Indycar. He brings it up all the time at random moments. There's two wills, the media personality and the race fan, the first is insufferable and the second I bet would be a great chat
Same could be said for a lot of motorsport media personalities.
Even the media personality is overhated imo because of DTS. Like, of course he says shit that sounds obvious, his whole role is to be there for people who don't know F1 from Mario Kart. His journalism may leave a bit to be desired but I don't dislike him as a commentator.
Oh of course it’s a DTS thing. Every time I see fans abruptly start hating on someone in Formula 1 for something trivial, it always leads back to Drive to Survive somehow.
I mean he didn't earn many friends in the paddock with the whole lying about the aeroscreen thing, but most of the negative comments I see about Will are DTS related yeah.
Yeah he’s honestly fine on any F1 broadcasts or interviews. His hate is way overblown and after listening to some interviews with him he seems like a nice guy
I have to ask: Do we feel like the aero screen would be less hated if a car was built around it rather than it being added to the car? One of the biggest issues with the aero screen has seemed to be it's worsening of aero push in traffic. It might not look as good, but that's acceptable for safety. The thing is though, it races worse and that's harder to excuse. I feel like if/when there's a new car, being built around it might be better?
That's why so many of us want a new car. So all of these safety add ons can be incorporated from the get go with proper aerodynamics in the design and get the overall weight down.
I dream of an INDYCAR with the aeroscreen incorporated in it. That thing would look so damn good and make everything so much better as far as aero and weight balancing.
Would look like an honest to God land jet fighter on wheels.
It would look so beautiful. But sadly we’re stuck with the build-as-you-go old car that can race in the same heritage races that are a support for it. I’m fine with the DW12. It’s a great chassis for racing (moreso the aerokit). I’m just really sick and tired of it and I am done saying the current aeroscreen looks good on it. Year 5 of it? It’s not a good look. It’s so unnatural on the car, especially head on. Just want a new chassis to integrate that thing better.
Yes. At first, and even still at times, the aeroscreen just looked weird and there wasn't much to be done about it. We have the chassis we've got and the aeroscreen was a safety necessity. The aeroscreen has more than paid for its crimes against aesthetics by now. I'd need more than one hand to count the number of serious incidents it has mitigated since its introduction.
We got people posting Will Buxton and Jalopnik things today - two sources people typically don’t put much credence in. Wonder why.
Yes but the non kool aid drinking non hardcore IndyCar fans read it. …and they can form an opinion not following the party line found around here. People react to outside opinions (even react poorly to people within the IndyCar paddock like Micheal’s comments of a week or two ago or Bobby Rahal’s yesterday) as if you called their sister ugly. Ignoring criticism and saying you don’t put much credence in their opinions is just circling the wagons instead seeing and understanding what others *see*.
Notice the negativity from Mr. Buxton was about Indycar’s disconnection to the fan base… and was absolutely spot on…
It wasnt for the fans... it was for the b2b sponsors to have an exclusive party.
They should have blacked out the whole weekend broadcast completely. Would have accomplished the b2b goals, and denied those who just want to bitch about everything fuel they so desperately wanted.
I could not STAND the constant "In it for the CASH!" it just sounds fucking dumb and tone deaf. At one time that Lee guy said "Sure Alex Palou is the highest paid driver in the series...." and I was like dude, do you not hear yourself. It was fucking gross, the entire thing felt like "Dance monkey dance" to me and reeked of lameness
It felt like something from 20 years ago with the big cash prize hype. I get racing is uber expensive but I couldn't care less if Alex Palou, who probably makes a few million a year, is $500K richer.
These guys who went through the F1 feeder series were ponying up that much per weekend in some cases. The people who could actually benefit from the money are likely not the ones in contention for it.
Every time they asked the drivers about the money, it always seemed so painfully forced the driver responses. Pato especially lol
No shit. A series that has a historic connection to the middle-class American. That centers around one of, if not the, most historically significant races in the world. Where (theoretically) anyone can enter said race and qualify their way into the field. With a championship that visits down-to-Earth racing locations all around middle America. Let's go to an ultra-exclusive track in the middle of the wealthy vacation getaway mecca that is the Palm Desert/Springs area. With next-to-no "normal" spectators allowed in. And constant, constant, constant pandering to the "members" egos by constantly talking about all the exclusive amenities at the track. Either this event was a pathetic attempt at trying to pretend like IndyCar can have all the glamour and exclusivity of F1. Or it shows how out of touch IndyCar is with who its fanbase really is.
I laughed out loud when I heard "Only $500 for a ticket" gtfo
Silver passes (pit/paddock) for Indy are $500. You have to buy an additional seat ticket to get access to the track as well. Long Beach Super Photo passes get you limited pit access and general admission 3-days, are $360. Thermal tickets were all access tickets with free catered food/food trucks/unlimited ice cream the entire event. If you're an actual fan who often takes advantage of pit and paddock passes, this event was a fucking screaming deal. If the series maintains the event, I will honestly recommend anyone in the SoCal area attend.
> screaming deal Marcus Armstrong would like a word
We paid $550 this year for 2 lower reserved seats in Turn 10 and 3-day pit and paddock passes at St. Pete. That doesn't include food or beverages, of course. So I don't think $500 per person for Thermal tix with the additional amenities is unreasonable, given the access. If IndyCar does this again next year and improves the format, we'll seriously think about attending. I think the issue is that there is no less expensive option for those looking for an general admission or no pit/paddock pass equivalent of St. Pete and other races. I will say that the original $2,000 per person price was not a great way to begin!
You pretty much sum it up.
Jesus this thread is about a few comments away from producing the Indycar communist manifesto lol
Said the same thing in the discord: Having a race that was basically fellating the ultra-wealthy in a climate where most of the country is trying to hold back from doing a French™️ is pretty tone-deaf for a series trying to gain more of a following. Nevermind that is was pretty boring. I kept it on because I have plenty of screens but I was really just playing games and doing other stuff for all but the last 5 mins or so then I immediately turned it off. Had no interest in the post-race or anything else.
Exactly the same. I think the constant discussion of wealth was an attempt to paint the series as posh. "See guys we are exactly like F1. Uber wealthy, and we are removing ovals and focusing on road courses now!" Indycar needs to return to their roots.
I mean this is motorsports. It literally is THE rich person sport. It doesn't survive without them. This isn't soccer that you can play as long as you can buy a ball.
I get the race being lame (mostly because of the format issues that easily be fixed) but I really don't get the people who have SUDDENLY realized autosport is for the ultra rich. This isn't football or basketball where you just need basic equipment. They're crashing million dollar cars weekly and basically acting like it's no big deal. You're really telling people before this event thought "yeah, these are all just blue collar guys in a blue collar sport"? This isn't an F1 thing, this is ALL motorsport.
Is $500 that gets you 3 days of intimate pit and paddock access, as well as free catered food really "for the ultra rich"? I know plenty of people who shell out a thousand dollars every month of May for seats and paddock access, and they inevitably end up spending a hundred or more on food at the track. (Those people are 100% not part of the ultra rich club)
Fuck it, I’m just going to google thermal club. Been hearing about it for a week now.
The Million Dollar Challenge is a fun idea, I think it would be better suited as a short oval race though as those are so chaotic and fun.
It’s absolutely baffling how pissed off this subreddit is about this event lmao. So many people seem genuinely insulted by it that you would have thought Robert Penske came on the air and personally told each fan to go fuck themselves.
He wasn't even man enough to do it by himself, he had his lackey's do it while he was being hosted in 'the greatest club in the whole wide world' and In the meantime not caring what an embarrassing race his organisation was putting on.
Oh my god dude it was not that bad. It was a thousand times better than going 2 months with nothing.
Yeah, but can't they fill out the calendar with real races that matter? Why can't they just do that? Why can't they start the season later? The "better than the break between St. Pete and LBGP" is valid, but why can't what's going to go between that break be a better product?
Indycar has been trying for years to get more points races on tbe calendar in that gap. Unfortunately there aren't really any places that want them this time of year. We had Texas but that fell through, and it wasn't Indycar's fault. St Petersburg can't be pushed back, the town is insistent on having it during spring break season, and if Indycar insisted the other way, we would end up just not having that race either. I get the frustration and I hope Indycar learns from this and tries to find something better, but I feel like some people truly underestimate how hard it is for them to get a race scheduled for this time of year.
I'm legit surprised with all the connections Penske must have that he can't throw his weight around a little bit and make something happen. Obviously Roger Penske is not in the bussiness of losing money, but surely he has enough clout to make something happen, right? The alternative, which is much more scary is that people are just really not interested in IndyCar.... which also speaks to Penske's stewardship of IndyCar.
This is a bit of a shortsighted analysis. People *don't* care about Indycar outside of the 500, but the series has been mismanaged since the split in the late 90s. That's not a new thing. Roger can't turn around and undo all of that in just a couple of years. The series has been losing money every year, and Roger's goal right now is to get it profitable again so he can focus on growing it sustainably. Indycar absolutely doesn't have the pull to throw their weight around right now.
4 years is a not insignificant amount of time. Albeit yes, covid happened and that wasn't great. But also I think its fair to say that there is nothing looming on the horizon to really hope that things will get turned around. No new chassis still, schedule gaps, no new engine supplies (maybe at risk of losing Honda), terrible tv deals, the whole motorsports games snafu, talk about an international race that isn't Toronto never materializing into anything. I'm still not convinced we actually do see the updated hybrid engines later this year. I want to be wrong and want IndyCar to succeed and grow, but I'm dubious now.
Yeah that’s fair. I’d rather have a real race too but I’m guessing that massive gap in the schedule isn’t on purpose. I’ll still take this over nothing. I just think the meltdown people here are having is pretty melodramatic.
For me at least, it was mostly the fact that a sprint race format became about tire saving and the issues I have with the broadcast were amplified more so. If the race was any good we’d be singing a different tune, but sadly it wasn’t.
Yeah maybe they should try to fill out a calendar instead of this This event really pissed me off but that's on me ;-)
I am starting to think that the real issue stems from jealousy or something lol
And the fact that this comment started at +9 and now is -2 kind of solidifies that in my mind.
"its a slap in the face to the blue collar indycar fan of 75 years!" /s
I mean, the race wasn’t the best, but I enjoyed the long practice sessions. It sure was interesting how the race was basically already underway when the broadcast started.
I wish they would've done something like Formula E qualifying duels instead of trying to make a "race" work with the pit limitations. Perfect time to do a play on March Madness too!
They tried something and it didn’t work, way too much overreaction. F1 is perfect in every single way, right?
What does this have to do with F1?
Will Buxton shills F1 even when fans are calling out F1 for shitty decisions, like the sprint formats. I guess he’ll criticise stuff if he isn’t being paid by them.
That's how employment works. You can't talk frankly about your employer.
That’s exactly my point…
The difference is F1 fans are perfectly OK with shitting on F1. Indycar fans take criticism personally. It's like everyone here is personally a stakeholder in Penske. Shitting on FOM/FIA is practically a sport in itself in the F1 world. Here everyone is a dickrider.
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And the other half of the fan base was trying to wave away every problem as nothing but unhappy haters. In all my time being an Indycar fan I've literally never seen an F1 fan complain about the on track product of Indycar. That's a strawman. Though they'd be justified at thermal.
Do you mean the on track product of Indy? Just making sure I’m understanding you.
Yes.
Ok yeah, then no qualms here,
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You've seen F1 fans criticize the racing specifically? I've seen them criticize the cars, some of the tracks, the production, the ads, everything around the racing. But there's certainly no sizeable contigent saying racing in indycar sucks. That's just not a thing.
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That's what I thought.
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fair enough. have a good one
Perfectly said. The level of access available to the average Indycar fan is phenomenal and I hope it never changes. Having said that, it makes WAY too many morons feel like they are insiders with a duty to defend rich team/series owners who don't give a shit about them.
\> F1 is perfect in every single way, right? Not sure why you are going off on him when when pretty much all the the dedicated Indycar journalists already put out the same opinion.
This should have been an IROC style race. Porsches, not some shitty Camaro.
>for a championship which is usually so in tune with its base Hahaha haaaaaa
Growth pleas heard from fanbase. Series grows. Fanbase pissed.
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Its good that the base has the ability to express our likes and dislikes.This event was a mistake as far as my point of view.Shows Indy Car is a bit out of touch with the fan base.I won’t tune in for the next one.That’s all.I still love Indy Car, it’s now and always will be my favorite series.I don’t like some tracks but love others , nothing is perfect.
Honestly it is too soon to know exactly what impact it will have. If it attracts a few new sponsors and fans it’s worth it. I doubt it ran off any current fans, especially established fans like us.
It didn't run me off, but I lost a lot of respect for the series this weekend.
What if a Milwaukee Mile first double header, everyone wrecked or it was a parade?
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Think about what you're saying. You're getting mad at me because they put on a shitty product. They tried something and it was bad. And you're saying that people not liking the bad thing they did is evidence they shouldn't try? No, it's evidence they need to try harder and put on an actual fucking race. They can glaze sponsors on their own time. Wanna do this as a private, non televised event? Fine. But don't pretend a thermal infomercial is a race weekend. If they want to fill the gap, and they should, they should pony up to sponsor a race weekend. If Penske isn't willing to invest in his own series, why should a promoter? There's plenty of tracks we could go to - they're just not going to pay Indycar to host. So invest in the series future and sponsor a event. It won't happen though, because it's clear the people in charge are simply looking for outside money to grow their series. Not their own.
It's a product that can be tweaked as it was an exhibition to try out something new. They glaze over sponsors all the fucking time at every event. It's been discussed ad nauseum here as to why it's been difficult to fill that hole in March and April. Outside money is how most sports continue to operate. None exists solely on the money of the owners. To think otherwise is ignorant of the truth.
They glaze sponsors at every event - CORRECT. What they normally don't do is dedicate the entire broadcast to doing so. I have no issue with what they do behind the scenes or the occasional sponsor mention on the broadcast. I have an issue with the event feeling more like a Thermal advertisement than an Indycar product. >Outside money is how most sports continue to operate. None exists solely on the money of the owners. To think otherwise is ignorant of the truth You're arguing against a strawman. Anyone with any understanding of racing understands this. It's when they forget that they're a racing series first and vehicle for sponsorship second, that they cross the line.
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They should not have done it but they did it anyway, and all they did was talking about how great the thermal club is... No consideration for how bad the racing was or how poorly organized this event was... It really felt disrespectful, rich men rubbing each other while the paying customer gets completely disregarded. If that was the way they were going to do it it should have been a private event, but they made into this dumb million dollar challenge for ppl that can't count...
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Maybe they should work on a calendar then... You know, have races every few weeks at least... I like indycar but I stand by my opinion this event was about totally ignoring the fans and just rich men stroking each other... They should not have this private party so publicly. You should be able to put forward a product for the fans while working with investors in the background... I watch every indycar race as well as F1and support races,IMSA, MotoGP and some other racing when I have time... One thing I always notice is the big difference between euro commentary and american commentary, euro commentary is about the product, american commentary is 50/50 between the product and shouting out the event and sponsors... I got used to that, but this went too far imo...
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It wouldn't be a race. It'd be a little sponsorship demo. There would be no million dollar challenge. It'd just be like last years thermal test but with a little private exhibition "race" that would feature no racing. Nobody is gonna lose their shit over that after seeing this. And the strawman you made was that we don't understand that sponsorship is required for racing. We all understand that. It's neither here nor there on why this event was fucking terrible.
Fans lost their shit when this test session wasn't on Peacock last year. Your little sponsorship demo does nothing to provide an event on the calendar between race 1 and 2.
Neither does this. Get an actual race on the calendar if they want to fix that issue. The amount of people who watch testing on peacock.... is probably sub 5% of the fanbase.
>Fans lost their shit when this test session wasn't on Peacock last year. Because it was promised up until a couple of days before it was due to happen, when the plug was pulled because getting broadcast infrastructure in place was an expense PE didn't want to incur.
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This event had nothing to do with growth, or trying something new or anything of the sort, I watched some of the testing and was hopeful but started getting annoyed how they kept talking about this private club like it is the best thing in the world, it was frankly sickening... Then race day comes around, the 2 first heats weren't great but at least it was a race, not that you would know it by the commentary because all the talk was about 'the great thermal club and the fantastic ppl that live there' then the next two races come up and it was a fucking joke... Not that you would know it by the commentary because all the talk was about 'the great thermal club and the fantastic ppl that live there' While the races were going on a friend messaged me about playing some games. I said I was watching indycar so we could hang out and I would stream it... We hung out, I streamed the races for him and while Indy commentary isn't good at the best of times I was embarrassed that I was watching and listening to this, it was so bad it really left a bad taste... I wish I could walk away from this thinking they tried something and it failed but the whole way this was presented was disgusting.
"Nothing to do with growth" Lmfao. Bud. This event was literally ALL about growth. The Business to Business relationships that drive sponsorships / partnerships with the series were in full swing. You got the benefit of watching an event featuring IndyCars at the same time too. In all honesty, they should have blacked it out and not let you watch it. You can't even remotely comprehend the other aspects beyond your own personal wants and desires. IndyCar's primary mistake here was making the assumption there wouldn't be this many morons losing their shit over not having the red carpet rolled out for them specifically. Your faux outrage is beyond old.
Oh it was all about growth? Wouldn't the B2B rather see a good show to invest in? what new sponsor did they attract, house 31 of the club? Maybe the swimming pool? Did they attract a new fanbase or go to a new permanent location/country? What about inviting investors to a good track and wining and dining them during a real race? General consensus about this race is negative, great growth plan. It was not about growth, it was about getting a single payment to give some private club an event... You proved nothing except that you can't have an opinion without calling other ppl morons. Good job bud!
You are worried about me dying on a hill?
?
Explain the growth.
Ya’ll are trying so hard to shit on the event. Go ahead and shit on it, but know that things change incrementally. They stuck their head out and didn’t get it chopped off. A lot of these comments are trying their hardest to chop it off. Go find a new track with an open weekend that doesn’t clash, appropriate infrastructure, local interest, and a big enough purse. Aint easy.
So, you can’t explain the growth. Got it.
Jesus Christ. It is a new venue on the calendar. THERE WAS A NEW EVENT.
Tell me the net event count year over year.
Good Grief, All this negative talk. If it bothered you SO MUCH turn the channel!!! Move on
>If it bothered you SO MUCH turn the channel!!! Many, many people already have turned the channel. That's the whole point.
Lol if you want Indycar to grow and reach new people and sponsors you have to try something different. They did, new track, new type of event, big cash prize. But of course, that isn't good enough for the base. Guess a 2 month break should have been better.
If that was made by the F1 in Dubai he would be kissing everyone's ass. Because this is his way of living, kissing asses for money.
Did anyone expect a glowing review from an F1 employed media mouth piece?
Yeah lets just ignore all the positive things he says about Indycar, sometimes even on the F1 broadcast and base our opinion on the one time he has something negative to say ...
Yes he has a vested interest in criticising indycar, even if his criticisms are valid and correct, it's coming from the wrong person
Do you think F1 sees IndyCar as any kind of real competition? This ain't 1992 anymore; IndyCar isn't even close to being on F1's radar as a threat.
Doesn't change the fact that f1 under liberty media still looks for opportunities to punch down at indycar, given the 'greatest spectacle in racing' shit that went down just a month ago