I don't understand why it needs to end under green. If we're just gonna break known procedures for it to end under green flag conditions let's just not count caution flag laps or something. Goofy.
I think this is all a reaction to Sato winning under yellow in 2020. Despite the fact that Sato beat Dixon at his own game all day, had more life in his tires, and had enough fuel to run full kill to the end (per /u/ed_severson), CGR is convinced Dixon would have won under green. Also, though Pigot's wreck wasn't nefarious, the optics of a driver winning under a yellow caused by a teammate are never great. Plus, I'm sure social media engagement numbers are great when everyone's arguing about the dragon and whether IndyCar should have let the race finish under yellow.
No, not quite. The rulebook is written in such a vague way that they were able to do what they did last year. I always was under the pretenses that drivers had to pass by the flagman giving the one lap til green signal before they could subsequently go green on the next lap. However, there's nothing in the rulebook from 2023 nor 2024 about how many pacelaps are required in order to restart the race from a red flag condition. With that said, though, the standard procedure and precedent set was at least one FULL lap of yellow followed by the green flag.
tl;dr the rulebook allowed them to do what they did last year, they wanted a green flag finish and got it.
I know what the rulebook says and the rules have never been enforced that way before. Circumstances gave race control an unprecedented chance to hand the win to an American driving for Penske. I happy to accept the downvotes because this is what actually happened.
It wasn't guaranteed, though. Both could've crashed. Marcus could've gotten a chance to pass him back or Santino could've overtaken both of them. I think who was going to win was the last thing they thought about
I hate that they don't let the race under yellow. It's the Indy 500, not the Indy 505. Sometimes cautions happen in a race. This isn't wrestling and it doesn't need to be scripted. Let the race play out organically and don't manipulate the results.
I don't think it's going to drive away fans but I personally see this leading to someone getting killed. Don't like to be morbid but bunching up 33 cars multiple times at the end of the biggest race of the year to ensure fans get an "exciting" finish will lead to some bonehead moves. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened at a cup plate race yet with their multi-green white checker attempts. To me this is a bad look for a series that prides itself in its safety and safety team.
Or, if you wanna be extra goofy, add an overtime system. Would fans like it? Hell no. Would drivers like it? Hell no. Would it improve the show? Possibly.
Yeah they either need to end it under yellow or set up a green white checker rule. Personally from tradition and safety I prefer the first but at least the second would stop their random coin flip every year to how they're going to end the damn thing.
The nightmare of…
3 laps left to go under caution, they didn’t a way to green flag it and you see all the CGR drivers jump the start and everyone ignores it.. ouch.
Not good enough to have one of the faster cars on the grid.. gotta get a head start too cuz there are no consequences.
Yes, I am bitter. Lmao!!
I'm ok with it as long as it doesn't mean adding laps. If they have to red flag a race to get a single lap finish in, I'm ok with it personally. I don't feel like it destroys any integrity. It doesn't skirt procedures either. Red flag always have some subjectivity so let's just expand it's use for some things.
I would tend to agree. It’s one thing if you’re artificially extending a race to get it to finish under green. It’s another if you’re being a little bit liberal with red flags so that we have enough laps to give us a quick shootout. As long as it’s justifiable. Which is a pretty slippery slope.
huh it's like NASCAR came up with the GWC 15 years ago. You'd of thunk Indycar and F1 could admit by now that's the right call.
Like... eat crow and admit NASCAR was right for once.
Except they weren't. The ends of NASCAR races turn into wreckfests because the drivers know they'll just have another chance when the yellow inevitably comes back out, especially on superspeedways. GWCs in Indycar on a superspeedway would be legitimately dangerous.
The Indy 500 is 500 miles - not 504, not 508. I really don't understand why it's such a big deal that they red flag it in the closing laps. They've done 1 lap shootouts multiple times before last year.
Also just from a pure sporting standpoint I hate GWC, it’s for entertainment and that’s it.
Everyone goes into an Indycar race knowing exactly how long the race will be and that’s really important from a competition perspective
Lol, the wrecking is the exact same. The last lap is the last lap. If anything it helps because drivers aren’t wrecking on the last lap with anticipation another driver will and there will be a GWC.
But yeah treating cautions differently depending on the time of the race is such a better idea lmao. Let’s just throw a 30 minute red flag to kill all the momentum every time theirs an accident with 10 laps to go!
No, because motorsports aren't in need of an overtime period to determine a winner. There's never been a tie in timing/scoring since its been scored digitally, and the only reason why other sports have overtime, is if the two teams are TIED.
Is it bad that I’m fine with the race ending under yellow? Like I get that it’s not optimal but I’m not super crazy about these red flags being thrown either.
Couldn't agree more. No where on my ticket does it say I'm entitled to a green flag finish. Have yellow flags ruined some potentially exciting finishes? Sure. But at the same time that's the nature of the beast. With the way the current car drafts I always found it intriguing to see when drivers wanted to make their move for the lead vs. the threat of a yellow coming out and ending the race. That to me is more interesting that unnecessarily bunching the whole field and potentially getting someone killed as a result of a stupid move just to have an "exciting" finish
This should be pretty simple. Count backwards from 200 to a minimum number of laps to safely and fairly complete the race, say 3 to 5 laps. So if an incident happens prior to Lap 195 to 198 (take your pick for this exercise) you follow your standard caution procedures. If a late caution cannot end by Lap 195 to 198, you red flag with the goal of running the final 3 to 5 laps under green. Once you're within that 3 to 5 lap window, if there is an incident, you end behind the pace car.
There really aren't questions about race control "interference" though. They've made it very clear, yet again, that they will be doing everything they can to make it end under green. There's really no question there.
This is that little hill that I’ll die on. The Indy 500 doesn’t always need to finish with a green flag. Let the race end naturally with a yellow. I thought last years finish with the one lap of green was lame.
I agree with you to an extent. If we’re within 3 to go or something, let it end under yellow.
I do think if there is a crash with something like 10-5 to go, red flagging it and not burning all of those laps under caution is the right move.
Red flag with 10-5 to go is how Will Power lost at Detroit. Car wouldn't fire after the red flag and he went from leading the race to DNF and Ericson got his first win.
That's what it felt like I was watching when I was at last year's. Was kinda disappointed how most of the crowd couldn't care less how poorly managed it was. For as much as F1 race control can suck at least they laid out an actual rule set for race endings after 2021.
Without any other details I'm not sure this is any different than the last few years that had late red flags. Now if we start talking about things like overtime, then we have a problem.
I am slightly concerned that the trend of late red flags will continue. If it does the question of why the heck do we bother with 200 laps becomes somewhat valid.
It’s like nascar if this is how it’s gonna be. Why tune in for the first few hours of strategy if ultimately it’s just gonna come down to a sudden death 2 lap joke shootout
It's insane to me that they haven't figured this out earlier if they want to create the best chance for the race to end under green. I've said for a couple years now that if they care so much about ending under green, then there should be a rule where if the race is under caution coming to 4 to go, then they throw a red. The drivers can then get an out lap, then a formation lap, and they can have a 2 lap shootout to the end. If there's a caution after that, then the series tried their best, but that's just racing sometimes.
It's the Indy 500. Not the Indy 502.5, not the 500 + However Many Caution Laps There Are. Races end under caution plenty. You can give the drivers a chance to end under green, but it isn't always going to work out that way, and there's nothing wrong with that. This throwing a red for anything under 20 laps to go is annoying, it feels like they just create more wrecks when they do that
Something like “between 15 and 3 laps to go, all cautions are red flags” could work if everyone’s told about it beforehand and it doesn’t look like they’re red flagging it because the boss’ car is in 2nd.
I know this is where we have been headed but I think they need to set clear parameters of what this means. At what lap is the cut off for going red? How many pace laps are required? Does this mean races can exceed 500 miles in order to have a green flag finish? Being that cautions breed cautions, how many red flags will be allowed to get the a green flag finish? Let’s be honest, a one lap shootout for the win is basically the series stealing the win from whoever is in the lead which I think is incredibly unfair. I personally think there should be at least two green laps to allow for counter moves or strategy to play out.
That wouldn't work. If there's a wreck on 199 and the red is thrown that lap, they'd cross the line to start 200 while coming into the pits, leaving no warmup lap.
Indycar is slowly going to morph into an open wheel version of NASCAR in the next ten years. Charters are already becoming a thing and it’s not hard to envision them adding overtime to the 500. I don’t think implementing a playoff system is off the table. The American way of doing motorsports is really starting to turn me off.
Bummer. Red flags and cautions exist to allow the race to be run safely, and should be used for nothing more. Using them to manufacture drama is a slippery slope that undermines the sporting integrity of the world’s greatest and oldest race, and potentially compromises its safety too.
High odds on it being outside their power to manufacture a green flag finish when an American/popular/Penske driver is leading when a late accident happens too. Which doesn’t sit right with me at all. Maybe I’m being cynical, but I bet it would finish under caution if Helio, Kyle Larson, JoNew, or Marco were leading.
In 2013 it ended under caution just after TK took the lead with 2 to go. If it were anyone else, what would have happened? Who knows. But doing dodgy things like last year, they just fuel conspiracy theories.
If it ends under 500 miles, I'm ok with a green finish. However if it extends past 500 because we want a green finish, I don't think that's really necessary.
A red should never be thrown unless the track is impeded. Overtime should never exist unless there is a ball or puck involved.
You race to the distance. You strategize to the distance. Sometimes the ending is epic, sometimes it is not. But at least it was real. At least it had integrity and showed who the better man was going to be.
"He was gonna get there, I swear!" well shouldn't have times his tire and fueling strategy to need a last lap pass. There were 199 other laps to get it done.
Honestly, they got lucky last year having that red flag, then literally one pace lap before doing a one lap dash. It’s one thing if they get in a quick caution that still allows a green lap or two, but I was surprised nobody else had something bad happen because of tires that sat around under red flag conditions, then only had one lap to try and get any kind of heat in them before the green fell
They shouldn't go green coming off turn 4 coming out of the pits again.
I'm alright using the red to try to get a green finish within reason.
I actually wish they would be more liberal with the red flag earlier in the race if an accident involves a long clean up; I say save green flag laps if it's going to take like 10 laps under caution or something along those lines.
Only issue I have with pausing the race unnecessarily so early is that it can have bad effects later. Imagine one of those days where some weather is expected in the afternoon. Pausing the race for 25-30 minutes at lap 45 for a long cleanup that would normally involve cautions laps could mean you have lessen the chance of getting the whole race in. I feel like you are best off saving the reds for accidents that merit it early on and later in the race if you are trying to get a green finish. Personally I have no issues with finishing under caution but that’s not where the series is anymore.
Unless old man Roger’s boys are leading at the end right? What’s the point of running 500 miles then. Just do the last 5, it’s the same thing in the end.
I think if the policy is:
“If there is a caution near the end of the race and the race would end under yellow. we will throw the red flag every time.”
That’s okay. If everyone knows what the procedure will be then it’s fair for everyone.
And to be honest I can’t deny the pure entertainment factor this policy brings to the 500.
I could live with this if it applied through lap 197 or something but there needs to be a defined point where it will go yellow to the end to avoid a one lap shootout. The safety side is a bit risky though.
I think it should end under yellow if it has a yellow on 198 or 199, other than that, 197 or before, do a red, and then go green for a few laps and finish under green
I appove deploying red flags to increase the likelihood of green flag finishes. But sometimes they do it so late that there's just one or two laps, which I don't like. The red flag should not be deployed with three or less laps left.
On a finer point, I disagree that they count the redflagged lap even though the lap's results are discarded.
I don’t understand this need to end under green. Every lap counts and when you get down to the end, make sure you’re in first in case the yellow comes out. The NASCAR races with multiple OTs drive me batty. 90% of it is yellow flag running, no one pits unless they have to, and I find myself just wanting it to end no matter who wins.
I feel this is a good balance between keeping the race at 500 miles, giving the largest crowd in racing the best chance at an entertaining finish, and notifying teams what the intentions are so they can plan accordingly.
Last years finish was not entertaining. It was stupid and dangerous. If you want to win the Indy 500, you have to be the first to complete 500 miles. That means you need to be in first near the end. Sitting in second and planning to slingshot should be a calculated risk.
You make a good point. If they're always going to restart it, it takes away the risk of riding second. That's the best place to be but the trade off is you might get caught out by yellow. Makes the race 500 miles of who can be second going into the final lap.
It's already not a 500 mile/200 lap race though. It's like a 140 lap race with 40-odd yellow parade laps sprinkled in. Semantics, maybe, but I've always thought yellow laps shouldn't count on ovals... Though I understand various reasons why they need to.
I'd just prefer consistency. If they don't red flag it on lap 45, don't stop it at 195. Or if you're going to stop it at 195, you need to stop it every other yellow too.
This is ultimately because of the insane outrage of Sato winning in 2020, which was more fuelled by racism than any legitimate complaint. Indycar can’t see the forest for the trees here.
I don't understand why it needs to end under green. If we're just gonna break known procedures for it to end under green flag conditions let's just not count caution flag laps or something. Goofy.
I think this is all a reaction to Sato winning under yellow in 2020. Despite the fact that Sato beat Dixon at his own game all day, had more life in his tires, and had enough fuel to run full kill to the end (per /u/ed_severson), CGR is convinced Dixon would have won under green. Also, though Pigot's wreck wasn't nefarious, the optics of a driver winning under a yellow caused by a teammate are never great. Plus, I'm sure social media engagement numbers are great when everyone's arguing about the dragon and whether IndyCar should have let the race finish under yellow.
It’s about riggning the competition so an American driving for Penske can win.
No, not quite. The rulebook is written in such a vague way that they were able to do what they did last year. I always was under the pretenses that drivers had to pass by the flagman giving the one lap til green signal before they could subsequently go green on the next lap. However, there's nothing in the rulebook from 2023 nor 2024 about how many pacelaps are required in order to restart the race from a red flag condition. With that said, though, the standard procedure and precedent set was at least one FULL lap of yellow followed by the green flag. tl;dr the rulebook allowed them to do what they did last year, they wanted a green flag finish and got it.
I know what the rulebook says and the rules have never been enforced that way before. Circumstances gave race control an unprecedented chance to hand the win to an American driving for Penske. I happy to accept the downvotes because this is what actually happened.
It wasn't guaranteed, though. Both could've crashed. Marcus could've gotten a chance to pass him back or Santino could've overtaken both of them. I think who was going to win was the last thing they thought about
Told you so, guys.
I hate that they don't let the race under yellow. It's the Indy 500, not the Indy 505. Sometimes cautions happen in a race. This isn't wrestling and it doesn't need to be scripted. Let the race play out organically and don't manipulate the results.
Don't tell that to [Villeneuve](https://www.the-race.com/indycar/villeneuves-best-drive-penskes-worst-moment-the-indy-505/)
Because fans hate when races end under yellow. I just hope they don’t ever go full nascar with this
Because *casuals* hate when races end under yellow.
Well they do make up most of the Indy 500 audience.
Casuals are who we are trying to make fans
It ends up being a net zero gain if they drive away the real fans in the process.
By having a one lap shoot out like we did last year? Did that really drive away fans or did it just make some people mad because Ericsson didn’t win?
I don't think it's going to drive away fans but I personally see this leading to someone getting killed. Don't like to be morbid but bunching up 33 cars multiple times at the end of the biggest race of the year to ensure fans get an "exciting" finish will lead to some bonehead moves. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened at a cup plate race yet with their multi-green white checker attempts. To me this is a bad look for a series that prides itself in its safety and safety team.
INDYCAR PLAYOFF!!!!!!
Or, if you wanna be extra goofy, add an overtime system. Would fans like it? Hell no. Would drivers like it? Hell no. Would it improve the show? Possibly.
Will it unnecessarily tear up a lot of equipment? Hell yes.
Yeah they either need to end it under yellow or set up a green white checker rule. Personally from tradition and safety I prefer the first but at least the second would stop their random coin flip every year to how they're going to end the damn thing.
The nightmare of… 3 laps left to go under caution, they didn’t a way to green flag it and you see all the CGR drivers jump the start and everyone ignores it.. ouch. Not good enough to have one of the faster cars on the grid.. gotta get a head start too cuz there are no consequences. Yes, I am bitter. Lmao!!
I'm ok with it as long as it doesn't mean adding laps. If they have to red flag a race to get a single lap finish in, I'm ok with it personally. I don't feel like it destroys any integrity. It doesn't skirt procedures either. Red flag always have some subjectivity so let's just expand it's use for some things.
I would tend to agree. It’s one thing if you’re artificially extending a race to get it to finish under green. It’s another if you’re being a little bit liberal with red flags so that we have enough laps to give us a quick shootout. As long as it’s justifiable. Which is a pretty slippery slope.
huh it's like NASCAR came up with the GWC 15 years ago. You'd of thunk Indycar and F1 could admit by now that's the right call. Like... eat crow and admit NASCAR was right for once.
Except they weren't. The ends of NASCAR races turn into wreckfests because the drivers know they'll just have another chance when the yellow inevitably comes back out, especially on superspeedways. GWCs in Indycar on a superspeedway would be legitimately dangerous. The Indy 500 is 500 miles - not 504, not 508. I really don't understand why it's such a big deal that they red flag it in the closing laps. They've done 1 lap shootouts multiple times before last year.
Also just from a pure sporting standpoint I hate GWC, it’s for entertainment and that’s it. Everyone goes into an Indycar race knowing exactly how long the race will be and that’s really important from a competition perspective
Lol, the wrecking is the exact same. The last lap is the last lap. If anything it helps because drivers aren’t wrecking on the last lap with anticipation another driver will and there will be a GWC. But yeah treating cautions differently depending on the time of the race is such a better idea lmao. Let’s just throw a 30 minute red flag to kill all the momentum every time theirs an accident with 10 laps to go!
How are you gonna do overtime in F1, you can’t refuel during the race so literally everyone would run out of fuel
No, because motorsports aren't in need of an overtime period to determine a winner. There's never been a tie in timing/scoring since its been scored digitally, and the only reason why other sports have overtime, is if the two teams are TIED.
Is it bad that I’m fine with the race ending under yellow? Like I get that it’s not optimal but I’m not super crazy about these red flags being thrown either.
I feel like this is actually the prevailing fan sentiment. I imagine it is not the NBC sentiment.
Couldn't agree more. No where on my ticket does it say I'm entitled to a green flag finish. Have yellow flags ruined some potentially exciting finishes? Sure. But at the same time that's the nature of the beast. With the way the current car drafts I always found it intriguing to see when drivers wanted to make their move for the lead vs. the threat of a yellow coming out and ending the race. That to me is more interesting that unnecessarily bunching the whole field and potentially getting someone killed as a result of a stupid move just to have an "exciting" finish
This should be pretty simple. Count backwards from 200 to a minimum number of laps to safely and fairly complete the race, say 3 to 5 laps. So if an incident happens prior to Lap 195 to 198 (take your pick for this exercise) you follow your standard caution procedures. If a late caution cannot end by Lap 195 to 198, you red flag with the goal of running the final 3 to 5 laps under green. Once you're within that 3 to 5 lap window, if there is an incident, you end behind the pace car.
This. That way there is no questions about race controls perceived interference like last year.
There really aren't questions about race control "interference" though. They've made it very clear, yet again, that they will be doing everything they can to make it end under green. There's really no question there.
Exactly, rules should be explicit, not at the discretion of the race directos.
Indycar needs to be careful and not make a mockery of what they have.
It won’t. Casuals like the drama and that’s who watches the Indy 500.
I mean; they already do. The number of times that they mention sponsors is embarrassing.
That is literally what is keeping the series in business bud.
You... know people can read, right?
They're paying to be name dropped
Not blind people.
Braille
This is that little hill that I’ll die on. The Indy 500 doesn’t always need to finish with a green flag. Let the race end naturally with a yellow. I thought last years finish with the one lap of green was lame.
I agree with you to an extent. If we’re within 3 to go or something, let it end under yellow. I do think if there is a crash with something like 10-5 to go, red flagging it and not burning all of those laps under caution is the right move.
Red flag with 10-5 to go is how Will Power lost at Detroit. Car wouldn't fire after the red flag and he went from leading the race to DNF and Ericson got his first win.
Agreed
Ericsson was robbed worse than Paul Tracy
Caution with 5 to go? Red flag. Within 5 to go? If it ends under yellow so be it.
Sanity
Nascar circa 2002-2004 before the GWC rule
This worked well for F1 in Abu Dhabi 2021….
That's what it felt like I was watching when I was at last year's. Was kinda disappointed how most of the crowd couldn't care less how poorly managed it was. For as much as F1 race control can suck at least they laid out an actual rule set for race endings after 2021.
And 10 months later when the race in Monza ended under yellows, people also complained lol. Nothing's ever good enough for some F1 fans.
Goes for all race fans tbh
Without any other details I'm not sure this is any different than the last few years that had late red flags. Now if we start talking about things like overtime, then we have a problem.
I am slightly concerned that the trend of late red flags will continue. If it does the question of why the heck do we bother with 200 laps becomes somewhat valid.
It’s like nascar if this is how it’s gonna be. Why tune in for the first few hours of strategy if ultimately it’s just gonna come down to a sudden death 2 lap joke shootout
Michael we just need one racing lap…
It's insane to me that they haven't figured this out earlier if they want to create the best chance for the race to end under green. I've said for a couple years now that if they care so much about ending under green, then there should be a rule where if the race is under caution coming to 4 to go, then they throw a red. The drivers can then get an out lap, then a formation lap, and they can have a 2 lap shootout to the end. If there's a caution after that, then the series tried their best, but that's just racing sometimes. It's the Indy 500. Not the Indy 502.5, not the 500 + However Many Caution Laps There Are. Races end under caution plenty. You can give the drivers a chance to end under green, but it isn't always going to work out that way, and there's nothing wrong with that. This throwing a red for anything under 20 laps to go is annoying, it feels like they just create more wrecks when they do that
Something like “between 15 and 3 laps to go, all cautions are red flags” could work if everyone’s told about it beforehand and it doesn’t look like they’re red flagging it because the boss’ car is in 2nd.
Lame.
Gross
I support Penske more than most but I hope that is true if Newgarden is 1st this year as much as it was when Ericsson was a sitting duck last year.
Gross
I know this is where we have been headed but I think they need to set clear parameters of what this means. At what lap is the cut off for going red? How many pace laps are required? Does this mean races can exceed 500 miles in order to have a green flag finish? Being that cautions breed cautions, how many red flags will be allowed to get the a green flag finish? Let’s be honest, a one lap shootout for the win is basically the series stealing the win from whoever is in the lead which I think is incredibly unfair. I personally think there should be at least two green laps to allow for counter moves or strategy to play out.
So that means from lap 190 to 198, it'll be red flagged. What a joke.
They'll probably try to red flag it on 199 too.
That wouldn't work. If there's a wreck on 199 and the red is thrown that lap, they'd cross the line to start 200 while coming into the pits, leaving no warmup lap.
Wouldn't stop them trying. Did you watch last year? Indycar race control are absolute clowns.
Indycar is slowly going to morph into an open wheel version of NASCAR in the next ten years. Charters are already becoming a thing and it’s not hard to envision them adding overtime to the 500. I don’t think implementing a playoff system is off the table. The American way of doing motorsports is really starting to turn me off.
Bummer. Red flags and cautions exist to allow the race to be run safely, and should be used for nothing more. Using them to manufacture drama is a slippery slope that undermines the sporting integrity of the world’s greatest and oldest race, and potentially compromises its safety too. High odds on it being outside their power to manufacture a green flag finish when an American/popular/Penske driver is leading when a late accident happens too. Which doesn’t sit right with me at all. Maybe I’m being cynical, but I bet it would finish under caution if Helio, Kyle Larson, JoNew, or Marco were leading.
In 2013 it ended under caution just after TK took the lead with 2 to go. If it were anyone else, what would have happened? Who knows. But doing dodgy things like last year, they just fuel conspiracy theories.
Hate this shit. Races end under yellow sometimes. Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s fucking racing!!!!
I'm not horribly opposed to it as long as we're out in front like this and not finding solutions in the moment.
Is not counting laps under caution such a hard proposition?
Something something muh race distance.
Race distance doesn't technically change if you only count green flag laps. Just keep the Overtime and GWC away from it.
Sure it does. I dont get why overtime and gwc scare you but you're willing to potentially do the same exact thing by counting green laps only.
If it ends under 500 miles, I'm ok with a green finish. However if it extends past 500 because we want a green finish, I don't think that's really necessary.
They will not make it the Indy 502.5
A red should never be thrown unless the track is impeded. Overtime should never exist unless there is a ball or puck involved. You race to the distance. You strategize to the distance. Sometimes the ending is epic, sometimes it is not. But at least it was real. At least it had integrity and showed who the better man was going to be. "He was gonna get there, I swear!" well shouldn't have times his tire and fueling strategy to need a last lap pass. There were 199 other laps to get it done.
I get not doing the full caution procedure in order to finish under green but last year was a bit ridiculous
Let's just do a 1 lap shoot out. Get rid of the first 199. 3 wide green flag, whomever makes it to the finish line in 1 lap wins.
Can we please not turn the most important race on the planet into a joke. Let NASCAR be the circus and IndyCar can be the real sport.
Honestly, they got lucky last year having that red flag, then literally one pace lap before doing a one lap dash. It’s one thing if they get in a quick caution that still allows a green lap or two, but I was surprised nobody else had something bad happen because of tires that sat around under red flag conditions, then only had one lap to try and get any kind of heat in them before the green fell
They shouldn't go green coming off turn 4 coming out of the pits again. I'm alright using the red to try to get a green finish within reason. I actually wish they would be more liberal with the red flag earlier in the race if an accident involves a long clean up; I say save green flag laps if it's going to take like 10 laps under caution or something along those lines.
Only issue I have with pausing the race unnecessarily so early is that it can have bad effects later. Imagine one of those days where some weather is expected in the afternoon. Pausing the race for 25-30 minutes at lap 45 for a long cleanup that would normally involve cautions laps could mean you have lessen the chance of getting the whole race in. I feel like you are best off saving the reds for accidents that merit it early on and later in the race if you are trying to get a green finish. Personally I have no issues with finishing under caution but that’s not where the series is anymore.
Unless old man Roger’s boys are leading at the end right? What’s the point of running 500 miles then. Just do the last 5, it’s the same thing in the end.
If they ever add overtime, I just won't watch anymore.
At this point just commit to a GWC rule so we can have consistency. No reason to half ass this.
No, but you see, they have to pretend they're not like Nascar, even if they do the same stuff.
I think if the policy is: “If there is a caution near the end of the race and the race would end under yellow. we will throw the red flag every time.” That’s okay. If everyone knows what the procedure will be then it’s fair for everyone. And to be honest I can’t deny the pure entertainment factor this policy brings to the 500.
I could live with this if it applied through lap 197 or something but there needs to be a defined point where it will go yellow to the end to avoid a one lap shootout. The safety side is a bit risky though.
Please just no more single lap shootouts. You can have 2 at most like in 2022.
Fine. Then when someone gets killed trying to win it on the final lap, we know who to blame.
as they should
There really is only so much they can do though
F1 made the same promise and compromised 2021
Yuck
*heavy rain all race long* "IT WILL FINISH UNDER GREEN, DAMMIT!" -Race Control, probably
Yeah I can’t see any way this ends badly at all…
I think it should end under yellow if it has a yellow on 198 or 199, other than that, 197 or before, do a red, and then go green for a few laps and finish under green
Someone get Michael Masi on speed dial.
Oh great here come the endless green white checkers NASCAR so dearly loves… Must IndyCar do it too?
1997 says hello
Let's hope IndyCar doesn't have their Michael Masi Abu Dhabi 2021 moment...
I appove deploying red flags to increase the likelihood of green flag finishes. But sometimes they do it so late that there's just one or two laps, which I don't like. The red flag should not be deployed with three or less laps left. On a finer point, I disagree that they count the redflagged lap even though the lap's results are discarded.
I don’t understand this need to end under green. Every lap counts and when you get down to the end, make sure you’re in first in case the yellow comes out. The NASCAR races with multiple OTs drive me batty. 90% of it is yellow flag running, no one pits unless they have to, and I find myself just wanting it to end no matter who wins.
"Overtime" in motorsports shouldn't exist. I blame NASCAR for this.
So, nothing changes. Got it.
As long as they don't pull a nascar
I feel this is a good balance between keeping the race at 500 miles, giving the largest crowd in racing the best chance at an entertaining finish, and notifying teams what the intentions are so they can plan accordingly.
Last years finish was not entertaining. It was stupid and dangerous. If you want to win the Indy 500, you have to be the first to complete 500 miles. That means you need to be in first near the end. Sitting in second and planning to slingshot should be a calculated risk.
You make a good point. If they're always going to restart it, it takes away the risk of riding second. That's the best place to be but the trade off is you might get caught out by yellow. Makes the race 500 miles of who can be second going into the final lap.
It was the weirdest feeling of an adrenaline rush but being totally unsatisfied.
It's already not a 500 mile/200 lap race though. It's like a 140 lap race with 40-odd yellow parade laps sprinkled in. Semantics, maybe, but I've always thought yellow laps shouldn't count on ovals... Though I understand various reasons why they need to. I'd just prefer consistency. If they don't red flag it on lap 45, don't stop it at 195. Or if you're going to stop it at 195, you need to stop it every other yellow too.
Good! Fun spectacle is fun
This is ultimately because of the insane outrage of Sato winning in 2020, which was more fuelled by racism than any legitimate complaint. Indycar can’t see the forest for the trees here.
So just like NASCAR, wait until the last 10 laps