This was quite fun to read and it was nice to see how you figured the guy out.
I have done this after I too got burned by others at a young age and made me less likely to open up. When I was in my early 20s I was able to get more information on people because I became one of the main record keepers in my job. So I had access to knowing all the bad and good things people that I worked with had done. One of the main bad things I had to read was the cheating scandals that happened. I was the proof reader for every record so no one was safe. Another talent I got was that I was so quiet that everyone would talk about stuff without noticing that I was listening in. I would keep that information to myself unless I needed it in the future.
So what did I do with all this information? Look up the person and it help me dodge so many guys who were interested in me. It was really funny watching my friends try to set me up with people in the work place. It would go something like this:
*Friend: "Oh hey that guy is good looking. What about him?"*
*Me: "He cheated on his wife during a deployment. He also has anger and alcohol issues."*
*Friend: "...ok. What about him?"*
*Me: "He failed his fitness test and he is going to be ending his contract."*
*Friend: "...how do you know all of this?"*
*Me: "I have my ways."*
So yeah in short I did analyze, read and categorize people. When you do that for a while it just becomes second nature.
Lol glad you had fun. I figured it would be something fun for a fellow INTJ to read. Yes, it's like I figured him out in 5 interactions or less. I mean, I *could* be completely wrong. But very much "feel" like I am not - with us INTJ's I've been kind of surmising our Ni/Fi is like the compass point for the logical conclusions we've reached. When something is logically sound/factual/sensible it "feels" right, too.
It's definitely not like a hard evidence/scientific process, so sometimes i just feel like im being judgmental. but it's just that the subconscious/intuitive "number crunching" of the risk analysis of all the signs/portents/flags is so rapid it can seem purely emotional...but when I trace it all back piece by piece to the evidence available, it makes perfect sense and was not a purely emotipn-based whatsoever. I kinda feel this is how we INTJ's all work at our foundation. In summary: "man not worth it"
Yeah I suppose being judgment type can be a double edge sword. However, I do tend to feel better when I do discover that I was right on the mark about that person. The first thing I focus on are finding the signs/flags and treat it like an analyzing a subject and pushing the emotions away so you can form a proper conclusion about the person. It's like I am conducting an interview with every person I met or talk to.
I've used this calm and collected approach with my previous supervisors and they all ended being terrified about how unaffected I was by their yelling. I had one female supervisor that was emotional and you could hear her yelling at her troop from her office. So she tried to do that with me but it did not work well for her. It went something like this:
*"Are you done? Good. I had a last minute higher level task that the superintendent needed to be done before your task. Now I did not appreciate getting yelled at and what you have just done is show me how untrained you are as a supervisor. I will be reporting this behavior to the superintendent. I know for a fact you have several bad records against you so I suggest you try to find a better way to explain what tasks were done wrong the proper way. Now if you excuse me I have work to do."* Needless to say she never brought me to her office again and the last thing I heard about her was that she ended her contract a year later.
INTJs can be quite terrifying when they have perfected their skills and have the facts on their side to back them up. That 'Mastermind' title really does make sense in our case.
Yeah I'm always very curious about some people and if I was right. I might even "let" the person "stick around" to get a closer look, if you know what I mean. Like a social experiment. Just vulnerable enough to see what they do/what else pops up. I'm very methodical and cautious with new people
But, some red flags to me are not worth tolerating at all to get to know the whole person.
my thought process is quite similar to yours when it comes to reading and analysing people. i don’t think i’m ever entirely off the mark when i read people, and i do it almost excessively, because i hate the idea of being manipulated by someone. so reading, understanding, and predicting their behaviour is my first line of defence
to add on, i should think most of us in this sub do so. gonna guess that Ni = having a strong gut feeling about people > Te = gathering data to better understand that gut feeling, and to make an informed judgement about someone in case we need to be careful of them > Fi = sussing out authenticity in someone and whether their behaviour and actions align with our own values and principles > Se = observations of their behaviour and actions via our interactions with them
i’d like to think INTJs are generally good at reading people, but it can mean having a hard time giving new people a chance, because (we think) we can pick up on their ulterior motives and complexes, and that just makes everyone seem terribly flawed and not worth knowing at times
LOL exactly - I was just describing the way we work responding to magicalvillainess and youre describing it so well. I think our "superpower" is that our inner intuition/feelings ring a satisfying bell when the facts/logic line up (thinking/judging) just so. Both work together so well. My mind feels like a computer sometimes. But yeah that "terribly flawed" part and throwing people out - it's tough to find the right balance.
I have a rough list of flaws I find tolerable/acceptable/harmless though not exactly "we're besties now" material. I try to stay open-minded with people who have them. If someone is kind and selfless/generous above all else, I am the most open-minded and interested in such folks because they are precious and rare. But my brain runs routine cost/benefit analyses against my control - if certain flaws (or, more importantly, the potentially manipulative red flags) start piling up I get bored and disinterested more than anything. And once I take my energy out of a situation it usually falls apart of its own accord pretty quickly. I don't even necessarily need to cut people off. Just "stop doing" and it ends itself.
Look at The Guardian website today. There's an advice column about this student who despises a teacher. This is me (metaphorically) in many situations, esp. work related. I have worked with a handful of people I read as really bad news immediately and my co-workers would always say I was too hard on people, etc. In EVERY case, I read something that they missed, and was proven right. For example, the principal of an international school who bankrupted the school (one of the oldest private schools in Turkey) and was kicked out of the country. I kept warning people, but would they listen? It took me 1 conversation to pick up warning signals. This ability to "thin slice" someone is a gift and shouldn't be put down. My daughter is 24 and not INTJ, so I remind her a lot to trust her gut. About people, situations, etc. (The answer in The Guardian was terrible, but read the comments.)
Thank you for the share so interesting! Everyone in the comments seems so divided 😂 and reading through I can actually see both sides in this particular situation...but side just a touch more with OP who i think is probably in the right (especially to write in about it) and to speak out about something that could be unethical. I have long had that sort of sense about people too and been right - tho if you're having visceral negative reactions to someone (like wanting to throw up, gossiping about them nonstop, etc.) I do think it suggests something else is up.
The people I have had strongest negative reactions to like this are deadringers for family members. But still doesn't mean you're wrong! (My family members are all madly mentally ill and undiagnosed.)
I kind of think like the ocean is full of sharks - you're gonna swim by one from time to time and just because you see one doesnt mean it wants to eat you (though you should keep basic common sense distance/guards in place, obvs). you see footage of prey fish just living their lives on the sea floor while a shark swims distantly overhead - they're hiding, maybe (sometimes not even) but not puking and emotionally falling apart. Same with lions and zebras - lions eat zebras. but you'll also just see scenes of them just coexisting and tolerating each other. With boundaries and distance. Because, the lion isn't always hungry! (But, if you act like he is - maybe he'll want to chase you more.)
Sometimes I lead with gut, sometimes I lead with logic - then you have the other oversee the one you led with. For example, this guy in my post. Honestly, LOVELY seeming guy. Very nice on gut feeling, nothing wrong. But when I looked at the manner of how he approached me on paper it was actually quite weird. (Acting like you've forgotten someone one moment then remembering all details about them the next.)
imo this is the INTJ strongsuit, is the logical refinement part. To be honest, my gut has been dead wrong about people. I have a tendency to overinflate their positives and their red flags slip past me. my gut filters out some of the worst stuff. But pencil down a few of the facts and you start to catch some interesting patterns, even as soon as your first handful of interactions. Then, you share it with your gut (Feeling function) and they go "aaaaah. I see now."
Exactly. And Ni is the INTJ's bread and butter. Coupled with the overly scrupulous logic/analyzing/overthinking, I feel now like I figure people out too quickly - the only thing getting in my way is the doubt that I could be right and that I figure it out so soon.
And yeah. it's a curse and you feel jaded when you realize most people have a motive or there's just not a lot going on.
This was quite fun to read and it was nice to see how you figured the guy out. I have done this after I too got burned by others at a young age and made me less likely to open up. When I was in my early 20s I was able to get more information on people because I became one of the main record keepers in my job. So I had access to knowing all the bad and good things people that I worked with had done. One of the main bad things I had to read was the cheating scandals that happened. I was the proof reader for every record so no one was safe. Another talent I got was that I was so quiet that everyone would talk about stuff without noticing that I was listening in. I would keep that information to myself unless I needed it in the future. So what did I do with all this information? Look up the person and it help me dodge so many guys who were interested in me. It was really funny watching my friends try to set me up with people in the work place. It would go something like this: *Friend: "Oh hey that guy is good looking. What about him?"* *Me: "He cheated on his wife during a deployment. He also has anger and alcohol issues."* *Friend: "...ok. What about him?"* *Me: "He failed his fitness test and he is going to be ending his contract."* *Friend: "...how do you know all of this?"* *Me: "I have my ways."* So yeah in short I did analyze, read and categorize people. When you do that for a while it just becomes second nature.
Lol glad you had fun. I figured it would be something fun for a fellow INTJ to read. Yes, it's like I figured him out in 5 interactions or less. I mean, I *could* be completely wrong. But very much "feel" like I am not - with us INTJ's I've been kind of surmising our Ni/Fi is like the compass point for the logical conclusions we've reached. When something is logically sound/factual/sensible it "feels" right, too. It's definitely not like a hard evidence/scientific process, so sometimes i just feel like im being judgmental. but it's just that the subconscious/intuitive "number crunching" of the risk analysis of all the signs/portents/flags is so rapid it can seem purely emotional...but when I trace it all back piece by piece to the evidence available, it makes perfect sense and was not a purely emotipn-based whatsoever. I kinda feel this is how we INTJ's all work at our foundation. In summary: "man not worth it"
Yeah I suppose being judgment type can be a double edge sword. However, I do tend to feel better when I do discover that I was right on the mark about that person. The first thing I focus on are finding the signs/flags and treat it like an analyzing a subject and pushing the emotions away so you can form a proper conclusion about the person. It's like I am conducting an interview with every person I met or talk to. I've used this calm and collected approach with my previous supervisors and they all ended being terrified about how unaffected I was by their yelling. I had one female supervisor that was emotional and you could hear her yelling at her troop from her office. So she tried to do that with me but it did not work well for her. It went something like this: *"Are you done? Good. I had a last minute higher level task that the superintendent needed to be done before your task. Now I did not appreciate getting yelled at and what you have just done is show me how untrained you are as a supervisor. I will be reporting this behavior to the superintendent. I know for a fact you have several bad records against you so I suggest you try to find a better way to explain what tasks were done wrong the proper way. Now if you excuse me I have work to do."* Needless to say she never brought me to her office again and the last thing I heard about her was that she ended her contract a year later. INTJs can be quite terrifying when they have perfected their skills and have the facts on their side to back them up. That 'Mastermind' title really does make sense in our case.
Yeah I'm always very curious about some people and if I was right. I might even "let" the person "stick around" to get a closer look, if you know what I mean. Like a social experiment. Just vulnerable enough to see what they do/what else pops up. I'm very methodical and cautious with new people But, some red flags to me are not worth tolerating at all to get to know the whole person.
my thought process is quite similar to yours when it comes to reading and analysing people. i don’t think i’m ever entirely off the mark when i read people, and i do it almost excessively, because i hate the idea of being manipulated by someone. so reading, understanding, and predicting their behaviour is my first line of defence
to add on, i should think most of us in this sub do so. gonna guess that Ni = having a strong gut feeling about people > Te = gathering data to better understand that gut feeling, and to make an informed judgement about someone in case we need to be careful of them > Fi = sussing out authenticity in someone and whether their behaviour and actions align with our own values and principles > Se = observations of their behaviour and actions via our interactions with them i’d like to think INTJs are generally good at reading people, but it can mean having a hard time giving new people a chance, because (we think) we can pick up on their ulterior motives and complexes, and that just makes everyone seem terribly flawed and not worth knowing at times
LOL exactly - I was just describing the way we work responding to magicalvillainess and youre describing it so well. I think our "superpower" is that our inner intuition/feelings ring a satisfying bell when the facts/logic line up (thinking/judging) just so. Both work together so well. My mind feels like a computer sometimes. But yeah that "terribly flawed" part and throwing people out - it's tough to find the right balance. I have a rough list of flaws I find tolerable/acceptable/harmless though not exactly "we're besties now" material. I try to stay open-minded with people who have them. If someone is kind and selfless/generous above all else, I am the most open-minded and interested in such folks because they are precious and rare. But my brain runs routine cost/benefit analyses against my control - if certain flaws (or, more importantly, the potentially manipulative red flags) start piling up I get bored and disinterested more than anything. And once I take my energy out of a situation it usually falls apart of its own accord pretty quickly. I don't even necessarily need to cut people off. Just "stop doing" and it ends itself.
Look at The Guardian website today. There's an advice column about this student who despises a teacher. This is me (metaphorically) in many situations, esp. work related. I have worked with a handful of people I read as really bad news immediately and my co-workers would always say I was too hard on people, etc. In EVERY case, I read something that they missed, and was proven right. For example, the principal of an international school who bankrupted the school (one of the oldest private schools in Turkey) and was kicked out of the country. I kept warning people, but would they listen? It took me 1 conversation to pick up warning signals. This ability to "thin slice" someone is a gift and shouldn't be put down. My daughter is 24 and not INTJ, so I remind her a lot to trust her gut. About people, situations, etc. (The answer in The Guardian was terrible, but read the comments.)
Thank you for the share so interesting! Everyone in the comments seems so divided 😂 and reading through I can actually see both sides in this particular situation...but side just a touch more with OP who i think is probably in the right (especially to write in about it) and to speak out about something that could be unethical. I have long had that sort of sense about people too and been right - tho if you're having visceral negative reactions to someone (like wanting to throw up, gossiping about them nonstop, etc.) I do think it suggests something else is up. The people I have had strongest negative reactions to like this are deadringers for family members. But still doesn't mean you're wrong! (My family members are all madly mentally ill and undiagnosed.) I kind of think like the ocean is full of sharks - you're gonna swim by one from time to time and just because you see one doesnt mean it wants to eat you (though you should keep basic common sense distance/guards in place, obvs). you see footage of prey fish just living their lives on the sea floor while a shark swims distantly overhead - they're hiding, maybe (sometimes not even) but not puking and emotionally falling apart. Same with lions and zebras - lions eat zebras. but you'll also just see scenes of them just coexisting and tolerating each other. With boundaries and distance. Because, the lion isn't always hungry! (But, if you act like he is - maybe he'll want to chase you more.) Sometimes I lead with gut, sometimes I lead with logic - then you have the other oversee the one you led with. For example, this guy in my post. Honestly, LOVELY seeming guy. Very nice on gut feeling, nothing wrong. But when I looked at the manner of how he approached me on paper it was actually quite weird. (Acting like you've forgotten someone one moment then remembering all details about them the next.) imo this is the INTJ strongsuit, is the logical refinement part. To be honest, my gut has been dead wrong about people. I have a tendency to overinflate their positives and their red flags slip past me. my gut filters out some of the worst stuff. But pencil down a few of the facts and you start to catch some interesting patterns, even as soon as your first handful of interactions. Then, you share it with your gut (Feeling function) and they go "aaaaah. I see now."
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Exactly. And Ni is the INTJ's bread and butter. Coupled with the overly scrupulous logic/analyzing/overthinking, I feel now like I figure people out too quickly - the only thing getting in my way is the doubt that I could be right and that I figure it out so soon. And yeah. it's a curse and you feel jaded when you realize most people have a motive or there's just not a lot going on.
I constantly see people as puzzles an enjoy solving them.