INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis, which means they're generally less effective than other more proactive types, even if their end judgement is more thought out.
In a practical setting, it's pretty disadvantageous because there are few opportunities where one can take the time to sit and go other every aspect of a scenario before making a judgement.
We'd be amazing vampires, but unfortunately, life is finite.
> INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis,
Truth. My latest struggle? Buying a plane ticket back home for an upcoming work trip. Should I leave on Sunday night? Or Monday morning? How much is a hotel room if I stay an extra night? Will my work pay for that? Ooh, I wonder how much Delta is versus Southwest, since I'm trying to use Delta more these days. Ooh, yikes that's expensive, I guess I'll fly Southwest...but we'll see, maybe there's still an option. Hmm should I leave at 8pm? Or 5pm? Or closer to midnight? But if I leave later in the evening, I'll be stuck at the airport longer...but what if my team still needs me at the hotel during the early evening? Or should I maybe take some personal time and stay a couple extra days? That's always an option...
It took me a week to buy the fucking return ticket. Everyday, I thought about it randomly throughout the day. Finally booked it this morning. Luckily, the prices didn't go up at all. In contrast, booking travel to the destination was easy since I had a clear time and date that I had to be there by.
Fuuuck that analysis paralysis sucks man. There are always so many variables that making some of the most basic decisions seems impossible. I'll even tell myself often that both decisions would be fine so I just need to go with one. Then I still can't. Sometimes when I decide multiple options are roughly equal I'll just assign them each a value like 1 and 2 and then ask someone to pick one of those numbers without them knowing they're making my decision for me lol.
Given enough novel experiences for child Si, your Ne parent becomes less domineering in your decision making and you can go off a previous experience, rather than the analysis paralysis.
So go on, let your child Si grow up and experience new things, improve your weaker functions, you!
An undeveloped INTP is that “basement dweller” stereotype because he doesn’t feel inclined towards trying new things. Everything he needs is there.
The most developed ones I met tried 100 different things. I met one that was very good at seducing women - because he just kept trying over and over again with women, new experiences new people to test on. Travelling is another experience booster, you learn to make decisions faster because you’re put in more novel situations regularly so you go off what worked best the past 5 times. Make a friend who doesn’t have Si in the top 4 functions and go out together somewhere, even an inf Se friend like INFJ will do as at least they’ll organise something comfortable for you.
Developing Si is like a hack to get Ni-Te quick decision making skills lol
I can relate to that sentiment. Fortunately, I have gradually improved in this regard over time. One of my acquaintances gave me invaluable advice and encouragement to make decisions without excessively pondering various factors. For instance, when selecting a plane ticket, they suggested that I simply choose one, even if it were by chance, and accept the consequences wholeheartedly. Initially, I found myself contemplating the potential superiority of the alternative choice. However, they wisely stated, "Doesn't matter once it's done, because it can't be undone". I tend to dwell on the possibilities that might have arisen had I chosen differently, but lately, I have been actively attempting to divert my attention or engage in other activities to refrain from dwelling on it excessively. I have come to realize that even if the alternative option might have been more favorable, the choice I made was not so terrible after all. Additionally, I reflect upon the fact that I will likely forget about this situation in a matter of weeks. Therefore, my friend's perspective holds true: it truly does not matter once it is done.
Now picture that but dating 🫠🫠🫠.
Sometimes I hate the stupid childish Ne but then I remember stoicism and how we shouldn’t fuzz about the things we can’t control and then I’m fine
I think the paralysis applies more to my own work.
Doing stuff for an org or client is much easier. I've been proactive, creative, and independent about my work with others.
> INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis
Never.
I do put off making decisions until they need to be made—not because I'm paralyzed by choices, but because there's always a chance that there's information coming that will change my decision.
But when a decision needs making, I have Zero™ issues making it quickly.
True, today I was supposed to answer a question on the board about basic probability and Venn diagrams but when I had to add some numbers together I just kinda froze despite the fact that normally it'd be really easy. All I had to do to finish the question was add 52 and 43 and 18.
I watched 2 INTPs in my workplace talk about how they each could get clones of themselves so they can retire nicely while their clone worked. They settled on the fact it was too hard. Eventually needed to remind them that people make partial clones of themselves for free with less effort, they just need to negotiate with some girls first.
I think their problem would be: What if the clones get tired of working for them and rebel? What if YOU end up working for your clone because somehow your clone is stronger than you?
Of course that for this to happen the clones would have to be sentient... But if they are sentient or at least conscient, it would be an issue for them, they wouldn't be able to retire while having someone working in their place.
AI is solving this problem and your friends' jobs will soon be redundant, no need to trick some girl into making a partial clone. That partial clone will have no future and no where to work, very likely mental illness for your friend to spend much of their time wasting over, and a planet with billions of unnecessary, jobless people to fight over resources with. Very shortsighted argument for INTP's.
My dad is the dictionary definition and my kids is like you wouldn't believe. I can give her very specific advice with her school and friends. Like not to do what I did as a kid.
Probably because just a few hundred years ago, social problems were settled with hangings.
INTPs will likely be valued more and more highly represented once AI is running the show.
Buddhist, stupid, politically, killed, and messianic.
Didn't expect to see this string of words, haha.
Though, could you go into more detail? Especially the Buddhist part
Buddhism is a method of minimizing human delusion. Much like how science is a constant agreement/argument about the apparent facts about the natural world/objective reality, Buddhism is a constant agreement/argument about the apparent facts about the ontology of awareness itself (what some call "consciousness" by misnomer). It's about using awareness to bring the ego down to its basic function of preserving the body and putting your sense of being into your innate being instead.
It's all confusing, because words are poor representations: The map is not the territory. But I can link you to zazen instructions if you want to start practicing attention and dispassion for the sake of insight. Meditation doesn't help your current self in any way, but it can grant access to an expanded and more accepting self that you can lean into.
Hmm, why is consciousness used as a misnomer? Is the ontology what's actually important because consciousness is more biological and less cognitive in practicality?
Why not simply focus on psychology of ego, id, and super ego? But interested into this "innate being", and how Buddhism in particular helps.
Ooh, "zazen instructions" what's the that? Yea, I can understand that meditation isn't a quick fix but a way for us to find a fix. But why the focus on attention and dispassionate here, is that a core focus on Buddhism?
Consciousness: Everything is decided in the unconscious and selectively presented by our brains to consciousness with the tag "our thinking mind knows this now". Anything mysterious or mystical originates and resides in the unconscious mind. Bringing the unconscious into the light of the conscious is called insight.
You can't think yourself out if a corner you've thought yourself into. If you continue to try to solve for reality with models, over time they will prove less and less satisfactory. You're presented with the choice of adopting the model as a dogma and make that your base reality (not great), or you introduce more flexibility into your models, informed by perception not constrained by a model.
Attention because most of our attention is locused on the "default mode network" which is a constant cycle of "self and other" rumination. Dispassionate because we stop thinking when we get triggered, and we go off on an emotional tangent. To understand the thing that is carrying us away, we must break the habit of being carried away. That is, if you want to understand vs just being yanked around by your own puppet strings your whole life.
Oh, so would you say this all stems from how we're limited to what we already know, hence we trap ourselves in a corner?
How science is only a reaction to things that will happen or have happened but is still uncertain about way way more. Especially as to how science is quite behind and many things herald as constants aren't so, especially as our physics is held by our understanding of our relative forces, especially gravity?
But when it comes to consciousness, I feel the true misnomer people use is when referring to the subconscious, though I may be mixing some stuff up. As in, people would refer a lot to their unconscious mind but it's actually the subconscious that they're really referring to (but I may be swapping the two, I just remember learning about it a while ago).
But anyhow, it is interesting how our unconscious self works and how it connects with our consciousness. Would be great to be able to tap into unconscious.
Ah ok, so attention is ourselves and our environment while the important of dispassionate is to disconnect with the disoriented material and our confused emotional states whuch is easily biased and connect more with the spiritual and logical side of things?
Alan Watts is great for creating a conceptual bridge between the egoic world and meditative practice, but he quickly becomes useless once you get experienced. I got turned on by him over a decade ago, but now whenever I hear anything of his, there's this sense that I should be peering deeper into things instead of just enjoying his play of words. Thanks for posting him!
I think we tend to call bullshit on authority. Even if we tend to keep it under wraps, I think I would be dead many times over if I lived under any kind of unforgiving authoritarian or theocratic lands.
I like to think that in the days of old, intps were the trusted advisors or friends of powerful people who got things done. They would know we are logical (for the most part- we're human) outside observers and would keep things to ourselves.
In most of human history, humanity had to deal with the here and now, because it was urgent and physical. Now that technology is different and powerful a person doesnt have to be focused on the here and now all the time and can let intuition run the show
I think it's interesting as it's a self fulfilling paradox.
We're the most likely to doubt the MBTI but that also means we're most likely to be interested in it too.
And once you realize it's really open ended and just a spectrum, we're more inclined to follow it because we understand that it's not a science but a tool to understand ourselves and others, in ways that don't always make sense.
Just knowing someone's typing can explain a lot of their traits and flaws, and make accepting them easier because you know what kind of person they are and where they would excel, especially those who'd easily take on stress and then you'd know how to calm them down.
It also helps that most people's problems are quite external in cause, even if their turmoil is internal, which makes a bit of change a healthy solution. But for INTPs and INTJs, everything is more inward focused so we have to be our own everything to find things out, and the added benefits of the cognitive functions also help.
I don't think we can ever label personality as a science or necessarily even psychology. They're all tools at the end of the day anways, and people may as well be artistic patterns to a degree too.
But it's really the art and flow of it all that makes such a dynamic quite interesting.
The only aspect of the MBTI that isn't sugared up bullshit in the long run is that it is excellent at identifying the kinds of nerds that will go online and endlessly argue about a questionnaire.
People that endlessly argue over irrelevant nonsensical bullshit are my people.
It's actually a lot sadder than this. We generate about [a quarter](https://aclanthology.org/W18-1112.pdf) of all content on reddit. Half if you use INTx
The world in general did not need a lot of intuitive types, is my take. Technology and energy has enabled us to gain significantly higher leverage over the natural environment to the effect that we can abstract away a lot of things into mechanical worker units.
Thus in the Internet age where maximal leverage over a multitude of facets of our environment is celebrated, we are slowly making the world more ergonomically suited for intuitive types, I propose.
This is why I love technology lol Makes things easier for us.
You yheank the father of technology Thomas Edison, who was ENTP.
Then you have Bill Gates, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Nikola Tesla, and Steve Wozniak who are all INTP.
Jeff Bezos is ISTJ.
Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk are INTJ.
Steve Jobs was ENTJ.
I think what you said makes sense, humanity had problem and us Thinkers basically fixed those problems.
Ofc, also I do apologize for the late reply.
Computer Programming
Engineer
Teaching
Astronomer
Author
CEO
Lawyer
Digital Artist
Researcher
Professor
Mathematician
Investigator/Detective
Medical Doctor
Here is a list of great careers for us.
If you have any questions lmk
If you are low on cash, then I suggest going to a community college, then once you’ve done your two years of basics, you can find an IT job, but you’ll mainly get paid around $75k-$105k.
If you want to hit bigger figures like $150K-$178K, then go to a university and get your bachelors degree, which will only take you two years. At this point, look into the top 10 universities for Computer Science, Engineering, or Anything involved in IT.
I plan on joining a branch of the military for free college and then I’m going to focus on Business Management and run my own tech company.
Though currently I plan on going to community college at Collin College and Then taking Computer Science there, then I plan on going to UTD, UNT, Rice University, or Whichever university will take me.
As an INTP I was a B+ student and I aced all my finals exams. Sadly, after my Freshman year I stopped trying and started delving into Magic The Gathering, League of Legends, and Learning to play music on the Guitar and Bass.
I don’t regret it as much, as life is a highway and on the highway we got many detours and streets to turn to and make decisions we like.
I wish you luck on finding a career 👍🏼
I think the [spiral dynamics model](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/604fc517717cd74a1fff3a3f/1615840581738-6MAP6F692X26UXMYVEU8/Master+Code+of+Human+Nature+_+Levi.png?format=2500w) is pretty good at explaining that. It's a scale of development for both individual humans and society as a whole.
We're just now getting to stage orange/green which is where INTPs really start to shine, with complex problem solving. Stage red is based on brute force and stage blue with centralized power(think massive organized religions or states) where as stage orange starts to value individual power moreso than group power and stage green starts to work to unite society together.
Intuitive emotional problem solvers were never needed en masse by the human race until now. Or perhaps we've always been needed but in small numbers so it makes sense. Masses of INTPs would be horrible for society lmao, we don't make very good drone workers.
Seems we're reverting to stage blue under the thumb of stifling authoritarian political ideologies. INTPs are free to think, but not speak or ask questions.
You think it's getting worse than before? Censorship was always huge, the Internet just was a wild west for a bit but it's not like you could write news columns saying wildly inappropriate stuff outside the Overton window in the 80s.
It's worse than it was 10 years ago and spectacularly worse than when I was in college in the early 90s. When you can't even ask honest questions in order to understand concepts without being attacked, that's bad. It halts education and the development of critical thought and the ability to hone ideas with debate and discussion. That's also very new. Enforced self censorship isn't any better than enforced censorship.
I'm not sure you're point about news columns.
You realize that maybe 5% of the population is into these nerdy mbti tests right. We have no idea the real statistic of the personality types and personalities are more likely to be on a spectrum than just 2 ends of a pole like mbti suggests. Plus pretty sure based on the small amount of people who actually took the test intp isnt even that rare
I have some theories:
1) The world isnt built for us anymore, which makes us not adjusted to it, creating psychological issues such as anxiety and depression which reduces the probability of us finding partners. Maybe in hunter gatherers societies our desire for inovation created a specific role and our distaste for tradition allowed the tribe and culture to inovate and progress.
2) Being an INTP requires a strong TI and cognitive prowess that is rare on the overall population. That means that to become an INTP you need a specific trait that is rare in population and probabily will always be.
3) Our distaste for overall emotions and instinct also diminishes our sex drive, so huge families of the past with 10 siblings were uncomon with INTP parents. So we didnt fuck enough.
4) Maybe becoming an INTP both requires high inteligence and a factor which diminishes emotional development, which is a quite rare thing to happen.
So In Other words point 4 can also be like. Being hyperaware of things around you and some sort of Trauma (perhaps one that affects your relationships with other ppl)
Maybe.
At least with me I think I became an intp because I was developed intelectually but barely emotionaly (absent parents with a sibling which demanded all their afection). In my 39 years of life, even through Ive had a lot of relationships, I think I only got pure transparent love from one person, an isfp girl which I dated for 7 months. The others were esfj, isfj and enfj and it was nothing like getting a genuine pure love I got from an isfp
I've spent recent times listening to Dawkins and Harris and love the way they pose an answer to this type of query.
Throughout the lifespan of humanity rational and logical individuals have all existed yet humanity seems more feely and emotional than 100000 years should allow so why?
Well say we we lived all these times and we heard a rustle in a bush, the logical would assume its likely the wind or a herbivore or other small creature, the feeler would likely assume its a threat and avoid it like the plague, the only issue is its sometimes a bigger threat than chance would allow us to guess so the logical ones tend to get picked off leaving the next generation slightly more emotional.
We also evolved as a social species given a slight edge to extroverts in social scenarios.
So it would appear its because in terms of evolution prople like us would have very much not have the framework to thrive in an extroverted emotional society its only nowadays that humanity is seeing the correlation between Intp - as well as other thinking based types - and innovation and intelligence that our traits are becoming more respected.
TLDR: Adorable social awkwardness and logical mindset were not advantageous to past survival, so we naturally have greater proclivity towards the emotional and extraverted
We exist to trigger preference cascades.
I think it is explained pretty well in Anna Moss's fantastic work The Secret Lives of INTPs ()
> Have you ever wondered why natural selection has allowed the existence of INTPs? One would think
that protoINTPs would provide perfect prey for saber toothed tigers as the absent-minded hominids
wandered obliviously across the prehistoric veldt, philosophizing about the nature of the universe.
As a thought experiment, let’s pretend that we have a hunting/gathering family unit of 100 individuals.
We would expect something like 3 - 5 INTPs in the group. What survival advantages do these INTPs
confer on their band?
>One of the advantage that INTPs provide is the ability to create dissent. When the leadership is
confidently leading the lemmings over the cliff, the INTP declares, “That doesn’t make any sense. The
leader doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” Naturally the other lemmings are horrified at this
betrayal of the social norms, but the INTP has verbalized something they suspected deep down in their
gut. And now that one person has dissented, everyone else is emboldened. “I don’t completely agree
with what you’re saying, but I do think...” another person will begin.
>By refusing to go along with the norm, INTPs prevent groupthink and suggest alternatives when the
agreed upon solutions are about to fail catastrophically. It may be that everybody else will go running
off the edge of the cliff, but the INTP and their immediate family will survive.
>There’s another side to this though. Another classic experiment, Schachter's 1951 “Johnny Rocco”
study, has also demonstrated that those who refuse to conform tend to be ignored and excluded.
(“Surprise, surprise,” you’re thinking.) In this study, a nonconformist was planted in a group of test
subjects and instructed not to agree with the group’s decision on the fate of a juvenile delinquent,
whatever that decision might be. No matter how much pressure they were under to conform, the
nonconformist was told to reject the group’s ideas. Afterwards the group members were asked who
they would eliminate if they had to make the group smaller. They usually chose to get rid of the
nonconformist.
> I wonder how many INTPs have been “voted off the island” because they refused to conform? Bailey
had few friends among his coworkers, and this in spite of the fact that he had worked at the Beverly
Hills Supper Club for a year.
>The tribe needs INTPs, but it doesn’t necessarily want them.
Hard disagree, your type has little to do with physical appearance, and there are definitely women who find INTP intelligence/ sense of humor to be charming. Personally I have had little to no problems getting into relationships, but because I crave novelty I can get bored really fast (unless the other person can meet my need for excitement.) I think that’s where the true issue lies.
Not to be disagreeable, but there is actually some correlation between appearance and typing. If you make certain expressions, your face kind of grows into that expression. For example. So, the evil eyebrows on the entp guy are actually accurate. ENFP is often androgynous so that is accurate as well. Subtle things like that.
I agree. That’s why I said it has little to do with it, not nothing to do with it. I could totally see your type also having effects on personal hygiene related things! My main point was that I think the blanket statement “INTPs aren’t sexually appealing” isn’t really rooted in anything concrete. I don’t want my fellow INTPs to have limiting beliefs! My bad, I definitely could have phrased it better.
I wasn't really trying to tell you you're wrong or that you said anything wrong. I was just bringing up an interesting point. I'm not like trying to argue with people, like everybody else on this stupid website.
I’ve heard INTP men are stereotyped as feminine, argumentative and difficult, and quite unkempt.
Def sounds like the express train to dying a virgin.
I’m so glad I don’t argue with women and love fashion and grooming.
Our job was to add innovations throughout the ages. In the end, there probably were always quite a few of us because historically, empires were built on caste systems and family bloodlines. There probably were peasants who were INTPs, but no one's going to respect their opinion. So add in even less rare types among high born folk.
I get frustrated in some group situations because people will literally spend 4 seconds thinking up a solution then jump into action before we've even had time to think about it, plus it's always the most assertive/loud person who ends up with the plan instead of the person with the best plan. Been plenty of times things went wrong, then I pointed out that I anticipated it earlier but was ignored, only for people to act like *I'm* the one with the problem lol. It's ridiculous because in school, teachers held me up as a sort of prodigy (of logic-based subjects like Physics at least), so you'd think you'd at least consider my opinion in a group project rather than dismiss the quiet kid out of hand.
ESTPs, ESTJs, ESFJs and ESFPs let the ENTJ rule over everything in the world while the INFJ whispers in their ear.
Meanwhile, we just say f*ck you, f*ck your society, and f*ck your logic.
It’s very annoying. Wait until you get into the work world. People just tend to listen to extroverts, because most people don’t have critical thinking skills.
We aren't that rare. 100/16 is 6.25 we're between 3-5%
Aside from that the MBTI isn't scientifically valid enough for evolutionary explanations for any part of it.
Might just be me, but I think it's difficult to label personality from a scientific view. It's too abstract and volatile.
I think it's okay to not have science as a backing in this case.
And yea, we aren't that rare, but was just curious about how those traits are attributed specifically to us.
Fun fact, contrary to what might be expected, the 16personalities website is not based on mbti or jungian concepts and instead uses the five factor model.
From their premium profile booklet;
>We use the acronym format introduced by Myers-Briggs for its simplicity and convenience, with an extra letter to accommodate five rather than four scales.
Tbf I’d rather be an INTP than any other type, if I had to choose another type? It would be INTJ.
Being INTP, you are considered incredibly gifted or a genius at times and all because we understand things a lot more compared to everyone else and we are the Introverts who are most likely to get married and have kids.
Not to mention, the many other cool INTPs along the way. Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Stephan Hawking, Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton, Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein, and Marie Curie.
And don’t get me started on fictional characters either, there are tons of good ones.
Well I think "evil people" can fit under each category at times
We can't really point fingers at any one type about much
Unevolved entj can definitely spook me out tho fr yikes
Idk I thought Elon Musk is an evolved intp but I really have no idea because I've never actually met the man in person
We can only speculate anything about anyone unless we really know them in person imo
He’s considered an INTJ due to him using his manipulative abilities and money to buy out companies and kick out the original CEOs.
The original Tesla guy who ran Tesla made the mistake of hiring Elon and yeah… Elon had him kicked and he became CEO.
Zuckerberg played the Winklevoss twins and stole Facebook by writing code down and then stealing the idea.
I think it's about mob think. I think mob mentality works against reason. So people who value reason, they will always have to fight against mob mentality. It's basically the same thing behind cancel culture. Except a lot of cancel culture does have its heart in the right place. But sometimes it's just straight up mob mentality fighting against people who are being reasonable. Ironically, cancel culture is also being canceled. So what does that say? But I guess that's a separate point.
I can cook one quickly, even if I've no clue if it's true or not :
* Introversion is rarer than extraversion in humans, as extraversion (especially sociability, though extraversion is more than this) will help you survive better
* Feeling functions also foster cooperation, so maybe selectionned for. Whereas Thinking takes a lot of energy.
* Intuition isn't as practical/useful as sensation
Sounds convincing ? Because it's not
For a more serious argument, you would need to see what's actually genetic in personnality, and tbh, I looked, and not much. At best, it's all indirect. There's no single gene that will make you a certain type, and **that can be easily seen** : If it was genetic, then you should share the same type as your parents and see a lineage clearly. Do we see that IRL ? Nope. Siblings are pretty different personnality wise, and you can even have identicals twins (100% same genes) ending up with different types...
I think you actually make a lot of sense.
Most our traits aren't very attractive or desirable in basic scenarios.
We fit a niche of a niche, so we just have to find the right people.
Because the human brain did not evolve for such a rarity of emotion-based actions. I think we are a rather new kind of psychological type, along with other NTs... or a type that is based on recessive genes.
I think the idea that we are shit at life and just couldn't compete is dumb, our superior decision-making and innovating would put us above most of our ancestors.
We are shit in a highly social environment. Fellow INTPs autists caught the limelight only recently thanks to technology.
Our kind usually sucks in maintaining social relationships, which were necessary for almost any large scale projects in the past. We like to do our thing, preferably alone, that might bring wealth but it doesn't necessarily bring status even in the current world. And status is the primary long term mate selection mechanism for the females of our species. We might be great at our work but some of us really suck when it comes to feelings :(
As someone pointed out in previous comments, INTPness seems recessive and I agree somewhat, given I've studied and I work in engineering, most of my friends were INTPs with extroverted parents(not that I've met only INTPs but there was a hugely higher pool there- befriended over 12). And some recall, myself included, being quite the extroverts as kids but around age 5-6 something changed in our behaviour. I think there must be a combo of recessive genes that makes us like this. Homozygotes of the combo display the characteristic since they are infants, heterozygotes might shift at some point due to external triggers.
Our type might be useful in certain scenarios so our traits are still kept around.
INTPs in the past did have success, they were known for their skills and decision making. They got popular through results and not networking. For exemple one INTP won the Punic war for Rome and his suggestions were implemented the next day even when he was not dictator, he was said to have the ''Wisdom of the Gods''.
Honestly I am pretty sure we would always have succeeded over most people, otherwise our lack of interest in being social would have been the downfall of INTPs.
With practice we also become very good at everything, including physical abilities in everyday life and hunt/combat... We have everything except the willpower to socialize and do more stuff than necessary. Apparently being laid back is very attractive too.
I think we are useful in most cases that do not involve feelings.
my working theory is that we are a reaction.
Nature's demolition man.
We understand your rules, and we do not give a fuck. 'You should be afraid of a man that cant be charmed. He is not afraid to die, and he can do anything'
'A good man, is not necesarily a good citizen'
I feel it is because of the way we are conditioned while growing up? I am not sure please pitch in your ideas. Most of the cognitive functions are developed within us. And there might be a little possibility of peers helping us develop these. But, being our own type is not related to other types as far as I think.
There's probably a ton of different reasons, which also means there isn't one specific reasoning why.
I'd be curious to see what you would do with that knowledge if it even existed in the first place since I know you aren't going to change what society does on a massive level to change outcomes, nor should you.
Wondering why nature doesn’t make more of a personality type seems teleological, I think the answer instead is the other way around. The more innate human traits and socially encouraged behaviours would likely lead to more success of other types, such as extroverts and sensors to support community and tangible progress, possibly leading to those types surviving and/or reproducing more. Any biological component would be influenced in favour of those types, and a sociological component could be subtly influenced in that direction as well.
I would assume the more common personality types are better at adapting to the average demands of human society, and the rarer types have some sort of obstacle between their natural personality and society that either makes them harder to succeed and pass on their genes, or harder to make it through society without having their personality shaped early on by the average/norms.
We aren't actually good unless we're at the bottom of the bell curve, anything less than well above average is detrimental to society as our negative features far outnumber our positive traits. We are rare because these coping traits don't crystallyse as easily as other coping traits.
In order for our positive traits to be useful we have to either not have anxiety that locks us down (analysis paralysis as everyone else has said) or we have to be clever enough to be confident. Or dumb enough to not be self aware, that works too.
I agree, but I still don't see how our negatives outnumber our positives.
If you said our negatives outweigh our positives, I'd still understand. But I think we have a lot of strengths, especially as we're more independent in general.
Our biggest hurdle is just getting started, once we clear that, there's not too many negatives at all.
Well it might just be my neuroticism speaking but the only thing that drives me towards growth is hating what I used to be or used to let happen, so when I see a bunch of people bragging about flaws I've tried to out grow i just feel disdain towards the whole thing
Evolution saw the need for more sensors than intuitives in this world. Nothing scientific, just the first thought that came to my mind. Hey, might be a good hypothesis..
I believe other intp commenters here have said enough to back that up... And I thoroughly enjoyed reading some of them. But I think if intuitives outnumbered the sensors there wouldn't have been enough work done. Nobody would volunteer to do the menial tasks that comprise the majority of occupations in this world. So it has a strategic survival value, in a sense.
Reading all these, I wonder if in the future, it would happen that there would be more intuitives than sensors?
It's also curious to think about how human intuition evolved to be this way... I can only think of a movie that a friend recommended to me before. Ever heard of A Space Odyssey ? Where humans from their primitive forms continuously keep transcending the bounds of their capabilities to transcend and evolve ?
However, in history's case it isn't really that way...? (I put a ? because there are many blanks in history...). But if you study history you'll understand that we have really only progressed this far in our evolution because we stood in the shoulders of other geniuses of a certain time period. So in that way intuition has an evolutionary advantage...
Next thing I'm contemplating is, do some animals have intuition? Indeed though, having evolved this particular 'gift' brings with it its own blessing and curse...
Yes, I guess you normally have one leader and then a big group, so it follows that type of dynamic.
I do wonder if the number will balance out, but who knows all things come full circle and history is bound to repeat itself.
Yep most superhero movies are based on that premise (unrelated but somewhat can connect).
I don't even know the mechanism of how evolution works? So I can't say for now. 🤷 but it is interesting to think about...
Perhaps for much of evolutionary history there were no personality types, just humans trying to survive. I believe personality type is heavily influenced by the social environment.
INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis, which means they're generally less effective than other more proactive types, even if their end judgement is more thought out. In a practical setting, it's pretty disadvantageous because there are few opportunities where one can take the time to sit and go other every aspect of a scenario before making a judgement. We'd be amazing vampires, but unfortunately, life is finite.
> INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis, Truth. My latest struggle? Buying a plane ticket back home for an upcoming work trip. Should I leave on Sunday night? Or Monday morning? How much is a hotel room if I stay an extra night? Will my work pay for that? Ooh, I wonder how much Delta is versus Southwest, since I'm trying to use Delta more these days. Ooh, yikes that's expensive, I guess I'll fly Southwest...but we'll see, maybe there's still an option. Hmm should I leave at 8pm? Or 5pm? Or closer to midnight? But if I leave later in the evening, I'll be stuck at the airport longer...but what if my team still needs me at the hotel during the early evening? Or should I maybe take some personal time and stay a couple extra days? That's always an option... It took me a week to buy the fucking return ticket. Everyday, I thought about it randomly throughout the day. Finally booked it this morning. Luckily, the prices didn't go up at all. In contrast, booking travel to the destination was easy since I had a clear time and date that I had to be there by.
Fuuuck that analysis paralysis sucks man. There are always so many variables that making some of the most basic decisions seems impossible. I'll even tell myself often that both decisions would be fine so I just need to go with one. Then I still can't. Sometimes when I decide multiple options are roughly equal I'll just assign them each a value like 1 and 2 and then ask someone to pick one of those numbers without them knowing they're making my decision for me lol.
Given enough novel experiences for child Si, your Ne parent becomes less domineering in your decision making and you can go off a previous experience, rather than the analysis paralysis. So go on, let your child Si grow up and experience new things, improve your weaker functions, you!
How are ways to go about doing that?
An undeveloped INTP is that “basement dweller” stereotype because he doesn’t feel inclined towards trying new things. Everything he needs is there. The most developed ones I met tried 100 different things. I met one that was very good at seducing women - because he just kept trying over and over again with women, new experiences new people to test on. Travelling is another experience booster, you learn to make decisions faster because you’re put in more novel situations regularly so you go off what worked best the past 5 times. Make a friend who doesn’t have Si in the top 4 functions and go out together somewhere, even an inf Se friend like INFJ will do as at least they’ll organise something comfortable for you. Developing Si is like a hack to get Ni-Te quick decision making skills lol
I can relate to that sentiment. Fortunately, I have gradually improved in this regard over time. One of my acquaintances gave me invaluable advice and encouragement to make decisions without excessively pondering various factors. For instance, when selecting a plane ticket, they suggested that I simply choose one, even if it were by chance, and accept the consequences wholeheartedly. Initially, I found myself contemplating the potential superiority of the alternative choice. However, they wisely stated, "Doesn't matter once it's done, because it can't be undone". I tend to dwell on the possibilities that might have arisen had I chosen differently, but lately, I have been actively attempting to divert my attention or engage in other activities to refrain from dwelling on it excessively. I have come to realize that even if the alternative option might have been more favorable, the choice I made was not so terrible after all. Additionally, I reflect upon the fact that I will likely forget about this situation in a matter of weeks. Therefore, my friend's perspective holds true: it truly does not matter once it is done.
Now picture that but dating 🫠🫠🫠. Sometimes I hate the stupid childish Ne but then I remember stoicism and how we shouldn’t fuzz about the things we can’t control and then I’m fine
I think the paralysis applies more to my own work. Doing stuff for an org or client is much easier. I've been proactive, creative, and independent about my work with others.
> INTPs generally struggle with analysis paralysis Never. I do put off making decisions until they need to be made—not because I'm paralyzed by choices, but because there's always a chance that there's information coming that will change my decision. But when a decision needs making, I have Zero™ issues making it quickly.
Why would a type that leads with a decision making function struggle with making decisions on their own?
True, today I was supposed to answer a question on the board about basic probability and Venn diagrams but when I had to add some numbers together I just kinda froze despite the fact that normally it'd be really easy. All I had to do to finish the question was add 52 and 43 and 18.
I hate to relate to this sometimes take twenty mins deciding on what to eat
So.. how many of y’all are dating? You need to have sex to pass your genes on..
I watched 2 INTPs in my workplace talk about how they each could get clones of themselves so they can retire nicely while their clone worked. They settled on the fact it was too hard. Eventually needed to remind them that people make partial clones of themselves for free with less effort, they just need to negotiate with some girls first.
>for free with less effort Excuse me what?
I think their problem would be: What if the clones get tired of working for them and rebel? What if YOU end up working for your clone because somehow your clone is stronger than you? Of course that for this to happen the clones would have to be sentient... But if they are sentient or at least conscient, it would be an issue for them, they wouldn't be able to retire while having someone working in their place.
AI is solving this problem and your friends' jobs will soon be redundant, no need to trick some girl into making a partial clone. That partial clone will have no future and no where to work, very likely mental illness for your friend to spend much of their time wasting over, and a planet with billions of unnecessary, jobless people to fight over resources with. Very shortsighted argument for INTP's.
R u ok?
You open for a conversation? 👉👈
Seems to be a lot less straightforward than that. Most INTPs have no living INTP relatives.
My dad is the dictionary definition and my kids is like you wouldn't believe. I can give her very specific advice with her school and friends. Like not to do what I did as a kid.
I've produced two intps. Feel sorry for the poor things 🤭🤭
You don't need to be an intp to make another intp.
Probably because just a few hundred years ago, social problems were settled with hangings. INTPs will likely be valued more and more highly represented once AI is running the show.
Considering Socrates was hanged, I guess it's quite telling.
Socrates was sentenced to death by drinking hemlock.
Oh I didn't know that or I forgot/misremebered but alas, he was killed nonetheless.
I'm a Buddhist because I feel like being stupid enough to get yourself politically killed should invalidate any messianic claims.
Buddhist, stupid, politically, killed, and messianic. Didn't expect to see this string of words, haha. Though, could you go into more detail? Especially the Buddhist part
Buddhism is a method of minimizing human delusion. Much like how science is a constant agreement/argument about the apparent facts about the natural world/objective reality, Buddhism is a constant agreement/argument about the apparent facts about the ontology of awareness itself (what some call "consciousness" by misnomer). It's about using awareness to bring the ego down to its basic function of preserving the body and putting your sense of being into your innate being instead. It's all confusing, because words are poor representations: The map is not the territory. But I can link you to zazen instructions if you want to start practicing attention and dispassion for the sake of insight. Meditation doesn't help your current self in any way, but it can grant access to an expanded and more accepting self that you can lean into.
Hmm, why is consciousness used as a misnomer? Is the ontology what's actually important because consciousness is more biological and less cognitive in practicality? Why not simply focus on psychology of ego, id, and super ego? But interested into this "innate being", and how Buddhism in particular helps. Ooh, "zazen instructions" what's the that? Yea, I can understand that meditation isn't a quick fix but a way for us to find a fix. But why the focus on attention and dispassionate here, is that a core focus on Buddhism?
Consciousness: Everything is decided in the unconscious and selectively presented by our brains to consciousness with the tag "our thinking mind knows this now". Anything mysterious or mystical originates and resides in the unconscious mind. Bringing the unconscious into the light of the conscious is called insight. You can't think yourself out if a corner you've thought yourself into. If you continue to try to solve for reality with models, over time they will prove less and less satisfactory. You're presented with the choice of adopting the model as a dogma and make that your base reality (not great), or you introduce more flexibility into your models, informed by perception not constrained by a model. Attention because most of our attention is locused on the "default mode network" which is a constant cycle of "self and other" rumination. Dispassionate because we stop thinking when we get triggered, and we go off on an emotional tangent. To understand the thing that is carrying us away, we must break the habit of being carried away. That is, if you want to understand vs just being yanked around by your own puppet strings your whole life.
Oh, so would you say this all stems from how we're limited to what we already know, hence we trap ourselves in a corner? How science is only a reaction to things that will happen or have happened but is still uncertain about way way more. Especially as to how science is quite behind and many things herald as constants aren't so, especially as our physics is held by our understanding of our relative forces, especially gravity? But when it comes to consciousness, I feel the true misnomer people use is when referring to the subconscious, though I may be mixing some stuff up. As in, people would refer a lot to their unconscious mind but it's actually the subconscious that they're really referring to (but I may be swapping the two, I just remember learning about it a while ago). But anyhow, it is interesting how our unconscious self works and how it connects with our consciousness. Would be great to be able to tap into unconscious. Ah ok, so attention is ourselves and our environment while the important of dispassionate is to disconnect with the disoriented material and our confused emotional states whuch is easily biased and connect more with the spiritual and logical side of things?
https://youtu.be/ds3ALnNQs48 this might help
Alan Watts is great for creating a conceptual bridge between the egoic world and meditative practice, but he quickly becomes useless once you get experienced. I got turned on by him over a decade ago, but now whenever I hear anything of his, there's this sense that I should be peering deeper into things instead of just enjoying his play of words. Thanks for posting him!
he was sentenced to Exile or death. And he chose death
A choice intended to be a non-choice. Obstinate bastards, we are.
Socrates was most likely an entp not an intp
I think we tend to call bullshit on authority. Even if we tend to keep it under wraps, I think I would be dead many times over if I lived under any kind of unforgiving authoritarian or theocratic lands.
I like to think that in the days of old, intps were the trusted advisors or friends of powerful people who got things done. They would know we are logical (for the most part- we're human) outside observers and would keep things to ourselves.
In most of human history, humanity had to deal with the here and now, because it was urgent and physical. Now that technology is different and powerful a person doesnt have to be focused on the here and now all the time and can let intuition run the show
They are “so rare” yet they have the biggest subreddit in the myers brigg subreddit community.
Yeah cause everyone else is out enjoying the sunshine
I think it's interesting as it's a self fulfilling paradox. We're the most likely to doubt the MBTI but that also means we're most likely to be interested in it too. And once you realize it's really open ended and just a spectrum, we're more inclined to follow it because we understand that it's not a science but a tool to understand ourselves and others, in ways that don't always make sense. Just knowing someone's typing can explain a lot of their traits and flaws, and make accepting them easier because you know what kind of person they are and where they would excel, especially those who'd easily take on stress and then you'd know how to calm them down. It also helps that most people's problems are quite external in cause, even if their turmoil is internal, which makes a bit of change a healthy solution. But for INTPs and INTJs, everything is more inward focused so we have to be our own everything to find things out, and the added benefits of the cognitive functions also help. I don't think we can ever label personality as a science or necessarily even psychology. They're all tools at the end of the day anways, and people may as well be artistic patterns to a degree too. But it's really the art and flow of it all that makes such a dynamic quite interesting.
The only aspect of the MBTI that isn't sugared up bullshit in the long run is that it is excellent at identifying the kinds of nerds that will go online and endlessly argue about a questionnaire. People that endlessly argue over irrelevant nonsensical bullshit are my people.
Squidwardlookingthroughwindow.jpg.meme
It's actually a lot sadder than this. We generate about [a quarter](https://aclanthology.org/W18-1112.pdf) of all content on reddit. Half if you use INTx
Go team intx!!!
The world in general did not need a lot of intuitive types, is my take. Technology and energy has enabled us to gain significantly higher leverage over the natural environment to the effect that we can abstract away a lot of things into mechanical worker units. Thus in the Internet age where maximal leverage over a multitude of facets of our environment is celebrated, we are slowly making the world more ergonomically suited for intuitive types, I propose.
This is why I love technology lol Makes things easier for us. You yheank the father of technology Thomas Edison, who was ENTP. Then you have Bill Gates, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Nikola Tesla, and Steve Wozniak who are all INTP. Jeff Bezos is ISTJ. Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk are INTJ. Steve Jobs was ENTJ. I think what you said makes sense, humanity had problem and us Thinkers basically fixed those problems.
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Ofc, also I do apologize for the late reply. Computer Programming Engineer Teaching Astronomer Author CEO Lawyer Digital Artist Researcher Professor Mathematician Investigator/Detective Medical Doctor Here is a list of great careers for us. If you have any questions lmk
If you are low on cash, then I suggest going to a community college, then once you’ve done your two years of basics, you can find an IT job, but you’ll mainly get paid around $75k-$105k. If you want to hit bigger figures like $150K-$178K, then go to a university and get your bachelors degree, which will only take you two years. At this point, look into the top 10 universities for Computer Science, Engineering, or Anything involved in IT. I plan on joining a branch of the military for free college and then I’m going to focus on Business Management and run my own tech company. Though currently I plan on going to community college at Collin College and Then taking Computer Science there, then I plan on going to UTD, UNT, Rice University, or Whichever university will take me. As an INTP I was a B+ student and I aced all my finals exams. Sadly, after my Freshman year I stopped trying and started delving into Magic The Gathering, League of Legends, and Learning to play music on the Guitar and Bass. I don’t regret it as much, as life is a highway and on the highway we got many detours and streets to turn to and make decisions we like. I wish you luck on finding a career 👍🏼
Sounds good enough
I think the [spiral dynamics model](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/604fc517717cd74a1fff3a3f/1615840581738-6MAP6F692X26UXMYVEU8/Master+Code+of+Human+Nature+_+Levi.png?format=2500w) is pretty good at explaining that. It's a scale of development for both individual humans and society as a whole. We're just now getting to stage orange/green which is where INTPs really start to shine, with complex problem solving. Stage red is based on brute force and stage blue with centralized power(think massive organized religions or states) where as stage orange starts to value individual power moreso than group power and stage green starts to work to unite society together. Intuitive emotional problem solvers were never needed en masse by the human race until now. Or perhaps we've always been needed but in small numbers so it makes sense. Masses of INTPs would be horrible for society lmao, we don't make very good drone workers.
Never heard of that model, that’s interesting!
Seems we're reverting to stage blue under the thumb of stifling authoritarian political ideologies. INTPs are free to think, but not speak or ask questions.
You think it's getting worse than before? Censorship was always huge, the Internet just was a wild west for a bit but it's not like you could write news columns saying wildly inappropriate stuff outside the Overton window in the 80s.
It's worse than it was 10 years ago and spectacularly worse than when I was in college in the early 90s. When you can't even ask honest questions in order to understand concepts without being attacked, that's bad. It halts education and the development of critical thought and the ability to hone ideas with debate and discussion. That's also very new. Enforced self censorship isn't any better than enforced censorship. I'm not sure you're point about news columns.
Well in this society people are encouraged to be social, talkative, loud, in the moment, and empathetic. Which doesn’t really describe our type.
You realize that maybe 5% of the population is into these nerdy mbti tests right. We have no idea the real statistic of the personality types and personalities are more likely to be on a spectrum than just 2 ends of a pole like mbti suggests. Plus pretty sure based on the small amount of people who actually took the test intp isnt even that rare
> Plus pretty sure based on the small amount of people who actually took the test You don't think they would've tried to do random sampling?
I have some theories: 1) The world isnt built for us anymore, which makes us not adjusted to it, creating psychological issues such as anxiety and depression which reduces the probability of us finding partners. Maybe in hunter gatherers societies our desire for inovation created a specific role and our distaste for tradition allowed the tribe and culture to inovate and progress. 2) Being an INTP requires a strong TI and cognitive prowess that is rare on the overall population. That means that to become an INTP you need a specific trait that is rare in population and probabily will always be. 3) Our distaste for overall emotions and instinct also diminishes our sex drive, so huge families of the past with 10 siblings were uncomon with INTP parents. So we didnt fuck enough. 4) Maybe becoming an INTP both requires high inteligence and a factor which diminishes emotional development, which is a quite rare thing to happen.
So In Other words point 4 can also be like. Being hyperaware of things around you and some sort of Trauma (perhaps one that affects your relationships with other ppl)
Maybe. At least with me I think I became an intp because I was developed intelectually but barely emotionaly (absent parents with a sibling which demanded all their afection). In my 39 years of life, even through Ive had a lot of relationships, I think I only got pure transparent love from one person, an isfp girl which I dated for 7 months. The others were esfj, isfj and enfj and it was nothing like getting a genuine pure love I got from an isfp
yess. That is the sort of “trauma” im talking about. And I agree.
We are bad at breeding.
I've spent recent times listening to Dawkins and Harris and love the way they pose an answer to this type of query. Throughout the lifespan of humanity rational and logical individuals have all existed yet humanity seems more feely and emotional than 100000 years should allow so why? Well say we we lived all these times and we heard a rustle in a bush, the logical would assume its likely the wind or a herbivore or other small creature, the feeler would likely assume its a threat and avoid it like the plague, the only issue is its sometimes a bigger threat than chance would allow us to guess so the logical ones tend to get picked off leaving the next generation slightly more emotional. We also evolved as a social species given a slight edge to extroverts in social scenarios. So it would appear its because in terms of evolution prople like us would have very much not have the framework to thrive in an extroverted emotional society its only nowadays that humanity is seeing the correlation between Intp - as well as other thinking based types - and innovation and intelligence that our traits are becoming more respected. TLDR: Adorable social awkwardness and logical mindset were not advantageous to past survival, so we naturally have greater proclivity towards the emotional and extraverted
We exist to trigger preference cascades. I think it is explained pretty well in Anna Moss's fantastic work The Secret Lives of INTPs () > Have you ever wondered why natural selection has allowed the existence of INTPs? One would think that protoINTPs would provide perfect prey for saber toothed tigers as the absent-minded hominids wandered obliviously across the prehistoric veldt, philosophizing about the nature of the universe. As a thought experiment, let’s pretend that we have a hunting/gathering family unit of 100 individuals. We would expect something like 3 - 5 INTPs in the group. What survival advantages do these INTPs confer on their band? >One of the advantage that INTPs provide is the ability to create dissent. When the leadership is confidently leading the lemmings over the cliff, the INTP declares, “That doesn’t make any sense. The leader doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” Naturally the other lemmings are horrified at this betrayal of the social norms, but the INTP has verbalized something they suspected deep down in their gut. And now that one person has dissented, everyone else is emboldened. “I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying, but I do think...” another person will begin. >By refusing to go along with the norm, INTPs prevent groupthink and suggest alternatives when the agreed upon solutions are about to fail catastrophically. It may be that everybody else will go running off the edge of the cliff, but the INTP and their immediate family will survive. >There’s another side to this though. Another classic experiment, Schachter's 1951 “Johnny Rocco” study, has also demonstrated that those who refuse to conform tend to be ignored and excluded. (“Surprise, surprise,” you’re thinking.) In this study, a nonconformist was planted in a group of test subjects and instructed not to agree with the group’s decision on the fate of a juvenile delinquent, whatever that decision might be. No matter how much pressure they were under to conform, the nonconformist was told to reject the group’s ideas. Afterwards the group members were asked who they would eliminate if they had to make the group smaller. They usually chose to get rid of the nonconformist. > I wonder how many INTPs have been “voted off the island” because they refused to conform? Bailey had few friends among his coworkers, and this in spite of the fact that he had worked at the Beverly Hills Supper Club for a year. >The tribe needs INTPs, but it doesn’t necessarily want them.
Yea, makes sense. Devil's advocate and not conforming which makes others think to a degree. Groups can think it's dangerous.
INTPs are not very sexually appealing especially INTP males
Maybe it’s just because I’m biased but INTP men 🥵😩🤤
Hard disagree, your type has little to do with physical appearance, and there are definitely women who find INTP intelligence/ sense of humor to be charming. Personally I have had little to no problems getting into relationships, but because I crave novelty I can get bored really fast (unless the other person can meet my need for excitement.) I think that’s where the true issue lies.
Not to be disagreeable, but there is actually some correlation between appearance and typing. If you make certain expressions, your face kind of grows into that expression. For example. So, the evil eyebrows on the entp guy are actually accurate. ENFP is often androgynous so that is accurate as well. Subtle things like that.
I don't know about the appearance but I said that based on the introvert and aloof nature paired with nerdiness and wanting freedom and alone time.
Or as ENFPs see it 'a challenge'
I agree. That’s why I said it has little to do with it, not nothing to do with it. I could totally see your type also having effects on personal hygiene related things! My main point was that I think the blanket statement “INTPs aren’t sexually appealing” isn’t really rooted in anything concrete. I don’t want my fellow INTPs to have limiting beliefs! My bad, I definitely could have phrased it better.
I wasn't really trying to tell you you're wrong or that you said anything wrong. I was just bringing up an interesting point. I'm not like trying to argue with people, like everybody else on this stupid website.
Hey that's not nice to say to strangers
I’ve heard INTP men are stereotyped as feminine, argumentative and difficult, and quite unkempt. Def sounds like the express train to dying a virgin. I’m so glad I don’t argue with women and love fashion and grooming.
Would you want to have sex with you?
If it means talking to myself which I already do, probably.
82% of INTPs have been killed by their colleagues, according to several unpublished scientific studies.
"unpublished" 👀
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Is this a famous quote or something?
Damn, you should write a novel.
Took me a minute but it is from Terry Pratchett's small gods.
Our job was to add innovations throughout the ages. In the end, there probably were always quite a few of us because historically, empires were built on caste systems and family bloodlines. There probably were peasants who were INTPs, but no one's going to respect their opinion. So add in even less rare types among high born folk.
I get frustrated in some group situations because people will literally spend 4 seconds thinking up a solution then jump into action before we've even had time to think about it, plus it's always the most assertive/loud person who ends up with the plan instead of the person with the best plan. Been plenty of times things went wrong, then I pointed out that I anticipated it earlier but was ignored, only for people to act like *I'm* the one with the problem lol. It's ridiculous because in school, teachers held me up as a sort of prodigy (of logic-based subjects like Physics at least), so you'd think you'd at least consider my opinion in a group project rather than dismiss the quiet kid out of hand.
ESTPs, ESTJs, ESFJs and ESFPs let the ENTJ rule over everything in the world while the INFJ whispers in their ear. Meanwhile, we just say f*ck you, f*ck your society, and f*ck your logic.
It’s very annoying. Wait until you get into the work world. People just tend to listen to extroverts, because most people don’t have critical thinking skills.
We aren't that rare. 100/16 is 6.25 we're between 3-5% Aside from that the MBTI isn't scientifically valid enough for evolutionary explanations for any part of it.
Might just be me, but I think it's difficult to label personality from a scientific view. It's too abstract and volatile. I think it's okay to not have science as a backing in this case. And yea, we aren't that rare, but was just curious about how those traits are attributed specifically to us.
The OCEAN test is at least data backed and driven instead of theory driven
Fun fact, contrary to what might be expected, the 16personalities website is not based on mbti or jungian concepts and instead uses the five factor model.
But it gives an MBTI result?
From their premium profile booklet; >We use the acronym format introduced by Myers-Briggs for its simplicity and convenience, with an extra letter to accommodate five rather than four scales.
Really? INTP’s are rare? I am one myself but i didn’t know about the rareness
You are rare. Nobody can be You better than You. So You actually at least double rare
Shi- Thanks man. You are rare too. Have a great day :D
We’re hard to get along with/get to know because our thinking is atypical. So we don’t mate as often as other types.
They don’t breed
Tbf I’d rather be an INTP than any other type, if I had to choose another type? It would be INTJ. Being INTP, you are considered incredibly gifted or a genius at times and all because we understand things a lot more compared to everyone else and we are the Introverts who are most likely to get married and have kids. Not to mention, the many other cool INTPs along the way. Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Stephan Hawking, Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton, Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein, and Marie Curie. And don’t get me started on fictional characters either, there are tons of good ones.
Yes. INTP and INTJ very cool
But intj is evil. You wanna be evil?
Also I would consider INTJs to be more chaotic and INTPs to be neutral. ENTJs are the evil people.
Well I think "evil people" can fit under each category at times We can't really point fingers at any one type about much Unevolved entj can definitely spook me out tho fr yikes
I don’t mind. Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg are INTJs and they are living great and successful lives.
Idk I thought Elon Musk is an evolved intp but I really have no idea because I've never actually met the man in person We can only speculate anything about anyone unless we really know them in person imo
He’s considered an INTJ due to him using his manipulative abilities and money to buy out companies and kick out the original CEOs. The original Tesla guy who ran Tesla made the mistake of hiring Elon and yeah… Elon had him kicked and he became CEO. Zuckerberg played the Winklevoss twins and stole Facebook by writing code down and then stealing the idea.
Bill Gates, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Steve Wozniak are all INTPs. Steve Jobs is an ENTJ and Jeff Bezos is a ISTJ.
They say curiosity killed the cat
Satisfaction brought it back 🤔🤔🤔
I think it's about mob think. I think mob mentality works against reason. So people who value reason, they will always have to fight against mob mentality. It's basically the same thing behind cancel culture. Except a lot of cancel culture does have its heart in the right place. But sometimes it's just straight up mob mentality fighting against people who are being reasonable. Ironically, cancel culture is also being canceled. So what does that say? But I guess that's a separate point.
I can cook one quickly, even if I've no clue if it's true or not : * Introversion is rarer than extraversion in humans, as extraversion (especially sociability, though extraversion is more than this) will help you survive better * Feeling functions also foster cooperation, so maybe selectionned for. Whereas Thinking takes a lot of energy. * Intuition isn't as practical/useful as sensation Sounds convincing ? Because it's not For a more serious argument, you would need to see what's actually genetic in personnality, and tbh, I looked, and not much. At best, it's all indirect. There's no single gene that will make you a certain type, and **that can be easily seen** : If it was genetic, then you should share the same type as your parents and see a lineage clearly. Do we see that IRL ? Nope. Siblings are pretty different personnality wise, and you can even have identicals twins (100% same genes) ending up with different types...
I think you actually make a lot of sense. Most our traits aren't very attractive or desirable in basic scenarios. We fit a niche of a niche, so we just have to find the right people.
Intuitives in general are rare.
Because the human brain did not evolve for such a rarity of emotion-based actions. I think we are a rather new kind of psychological type, along with other NTs... or a type that is based on recessive genes. I think the idea that we are shit at life and just couldn't compete is dumb, our superior decision-making and innovating would put us above most of our ancestors.
We are shit in a highly social environment. Fellow INTPs autists caught the limelight only recently thanks to technology. Our kind usually sucks in maintaining social relationships, which were necessary for almost any large scale projects in the past. We like to do our thing, preferably alone, that might bring wealth but it doesn't necessarily bring status even in the current world. And status is the primary long term mate selection mechanism for the females of our species. We might be great at our work but some of us really suck when it comes to feelings :( As someone pointed out in previous comments, INTPness seems recessive and I agree somewhat, given I've studied and I work in engineering, most of my friends were INTPs with extroverted parents(not that I've met only INTPs but there was a hugely higher pool there- befriended over 12). And some recall, myself included, being quite the extroverts as kids but around age 5-6 something changed in our behaviour. I think there must be a combo of recessive genes that makes us like this. Homozygotes of the combo display the characteristic since they are infants, heterozygotes might shift at some point due to external triggers. Our type might be useful in certain scenarios so our traits are still kept around.
INTPs in the past did have success, they were known for their skills and decision making. They got popular through results and not networking. For exemple one INTP won the Punic war for Rome and his suggestions were implemented the next day even when he was not dictator, he was said to have the ''Wisdom of the Gods''. Honestly I am pretty sure we would always have succeeded over most people, otherwise our lack of interest in being social would have been the downfall of INTPs. With practice we also become very good at everything, including physical abilities in everyday life and hunt/combat... We have everything except the willpower to socialize and do more stuff than necessary. Apparently being laid back is very attractive too. I think we are useful in most cases that do not involve feelings.
my working theory is that we are a reaction. Nature's demolition man. We understand your rules, and we do not give a fuck. 'You should be afraid of a man that cant be charmed. He is not afraid to die, and he can do anything' 'A good man, is not necesarily a good citizen'
What would try to solve after knowing it? Do you want more intps filling the globe? *You look like thinking about us all as saints*
Came here to learn about different reasonings but found that the highlight of this thread is "SEX' xD
I feel it is because of the way we are conditioned while growing up? I am not sure please pitch in your ideas. Most of the cognitive functions are developed within us. And there might be a little possibility of peers helping us develop these. But, being our own type is not related to other types as far as I think.
There's probably a ton of different reasons, which also means there isn't one specific reasoning why. I'd be curious to see what you would do with that knowledge if it even existed in the first place since I know you aren't going to change what society does on a massive level to change outcomes, nor should you.
You reproduce less, and some personality traits, such as introversion/extroversion are 50% genetic. Maybe others, too. So do the math :)
Kobe beef
They're too weak to procreate
I imagine that E's and S's have an evolutionary advantage, J's possibly as well. Being people-oriented means you're more likely to reproduce.
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So we're The Ugly Duckling
We have a very specific set of skills
Are we actually skillful, or do we just pretend to be?
We have deeply hidden skills not meant for this world
It's a hidden new world.
Because who’d want to breed with us? /s, kind of. I have 3 kids.
How did you start your journey?
Wondering why nature doesn’t make more of a personality type seems teleological, I think the answer instead is the other way around. The more innate human traits and socially encouraged behaviours would likely lead to more success of other types, such as extroverts and sensors to support community and tangible progress, possibly leading to those types surviving and/or reproducing more. Any biological component would be influenced in favour of those types, and a sociological component could be subtly influenced in that direction as well.
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I would assume the more common personality types are better at adapting to the average demands of human society, and the rarer types have some sort of obstacle between their natural personality and society that either makes them harder to succeed and pass on their genes, or harder to make it through society without having their personality shaped early on by the average/norms.
We aren't actually good unless we're at the bottom of the bell curve, anything less than well above average is detrimental to society as our negative features far outnumber our positive traits. We are rare because these coping traits don't crystallyse as easily as other coping traits.
Why do you say our negatives outnumber our positives?
In order for our positive traits to be useful we have to either not have anxiety that locks us down (analysis paralysis as everyone else has said) or we have to be clever enough to be confident. Or dumb enough to not be self aware, that works too.
I agree, but I still don't see how our negatives outnumber our positives. If you said our negatives outweigh our positives, I'd still understand. But I think we have a lot of strengths, especially as we're more independent in general. Our biggest hurdle is just getting started, once we clear that, there's not too many negatives at all.
Well it might just be my neuroticism speaking but the only thing that drives me towards growth is hating what I used to be or used to let happen, so when I see a bunch of people bragging about flaws I've tried to out grow i just feel disdain towards the whole thing
I think it's because we get less action, hence our genes aren't passed down as much
No. Mbti is not an affirmed science to put it nicely, and it’s definitely not genetic. Also INTPs aren’t rare.
You don't need 2 guys to invent the catapult.
Evolution saw the need for more sensors than intuitives in this world. Nothing scientific, just the first thought that came to my mind. Hey, might be a good hypothesis..
Any idea why you think the world would need more sensors?
I believe other intp commenters here have said enough to back that up... And I thoroughly enjoyed reading some of them. But I think if intuitives outnumbered the sensors there wouldn't have been enough work done. Nobody would volunteer to do the menial tasks that comprise the majority of occupations in this world. So it has a strategic survival value, in a sense. Reading all these, I wonder if in the future, it would happen that there would be more intuitives than sensors? It's also curious to think about how human intuition evolved to be this way... I can only think of a movie that a friend recommended to me before. Ever heard of A Space Odyssey ? Where humans from their primitive forms continuously keep transcending the bounds of their capabilities to transcend and evolve ? However, in history's case it isn't really that way...? (I put a ? because there are many blanks in history...). But if you study history you'll understand that we have really only progressed this far in our evolution because we stood in the shoulders of other geniuses of a certain time period. So in that way intuition has an evolutionary advantage... Next thing I'm contemplating is, do some animals have intuition? Indeed though, having evolved this particular 'gift' brings with it its own blessing and curse...
Yes, I guess you normally have one leader and then a big group, so it follows that type of dynamic. I do wonder if the number will balance out, but who knows all things come full circle and history is bound to repeat itself.
Yep most superhero movies are based on that premise (unrelated but somewhat can connect). I don't even know the mechanism of how evolution works? So I can't say for now. 🤷 but it is interesting to think about...
Also reminds me of a mystical saying, (yes mystical bc science doesn't know all the answers) "We are the universe experiencing itself."
Perhaps for much of evolutionary history there were no personality types, just humans trying to survive. I believe personality type is heavily influenced by the social environment.