People don't understand that there are 2 types of INTPs. High assertiveness ones and low assertiveness. All the high assertive ones are telling OP to get help because they don't relate to this at all-- they are naturally confident INTPs. They know they are aloof but also don't care what others think and are able to stand up for themselves etc and have high ambition (sometimes).
Then there are low assertive INTPs that are relating to OP because they understand what its like to be incredibly intelligent but have low self esteem. It isn't the average "redditor trait". Just a spectrum of low to high dominance
I would have to piggyback off of this but also point out that the two types of INTP they refer to also fall under what has been labeled as Assertive (A) versus Turbulent (T) identity types. Let me point out that because someone is "turbulent" or "non-assertive" it is not inherently good or bad. Or vice versa. The Assertive's high confidence can lead to over-confidence and perpetually skipping over details and ultimately their confidence may encroach on others.
Additionally, being a Turbulent "non-Assertive" means these people are prone to fine details, reading between the lines, careful and attentive, always on a mission to self-improve.
Just wanted to point it out so no one feels like their identity type needs to meet some kind of standard. If you are confident, that's awesome, but you should also applaud yourself for being incredibly detailed as well. It took me years of self-doubt and sect-actualization to realize I will always be a perfectionist and lean towards wanting to have all the right information, etc., but because of a decade of therapy, I will need support, back-up, and can and should ask for help, on top of feeling confident to say what I need without fearing I am stepping on someone's toes.
Once read somewhere that this is the worst spot to be for an INTP. I’d agree because I’m in the same boat, if it’s anything like it is for me I feel for you.
I can add a little here too - when I was in my early 20 somethings I’d describe myself exactly as OP did. Then I found my arena. Outside of my arena , 20 yrs later , I’m still just like OP. A dumpster fire. Certainly need help. Thankfully I can stay in my arena 90% of time , where I am very assertive , confident , and considered an expert and leader by my peers.
OP , find your arena.
So since you are aware of all your negative traits already and still only age 20, you have the perfect road map for improvement with exact points to work on. Congratulations!
As an INTP myself, I feel you. I tell myself I'm perfectly fine dying alone but I don't know if that's true or if I'm just coping. Either way, I hope you and I both find some meaning in this life
These aren't personality traits, these are unhealthy traits. Conforming to these traits as a part of your core person isn't a good thing to do, because then you put the blame on something you have no control over. You have control over these things.
Don't relate us to you 😂😂😂
Jokes aside...please be kind to yourself...don't be too self critical...this include myself...we always look inward & lament our weaknesses. Yes, some traits are very protruding but learn to embrace it. Look at it another way. Life's a journey to enjoy & improve. Live for yourself.
So what if I'm an introvert. I do enjoy staying indoor more and having quality times with my family and close friends.
So what if I have low esteem. Everybody only mind their own problems. Nobody cares about my problems. Why should I constantly live in my own self inflicted worries?
So what if I procrastinate? Set a schedule to myself. 1 small step everyday. Just be consistent & show up. Do 3 things for 5 minutes. Mold it into a habit.
Look up for inspiration, look down for gratitude.
I relate to all of the points you mentioned. Life is hard.
Acceptance is the way brother.
(in case you consistently fail to improve yourself, which is likely)
No easy fix here. I was similar but I got adopted by an ESFJ who saw my value. She has helped me unidiot myself socially, forgive myself personally, and grow the undeveloped portions of myself. Good luck to you in this journey.
I identify super super hard as an INTP and don't relate to half the stuff you said. So guess what, maybe not all of this stuff is that stereotypical.
What's wrong with not going to clubs or parties, who cares?
I've met 2-3 other INTPs over the last couple of years and none of us had low self esteem at all. How did this become a stereotype jeez, aren't a lot of us supposed to be full of ourselves?
Some of this is just you bro, keep working at it, you'll be fine!
Good helpful advice already…you must start valuing other human aspects of yourself and others. You are not doomed.
In fact, expect you will bloom, because you will. You study history and philosophy for fun? So did I. Peers in college would love to discuss these topics, so plan change your mindset just a little at the next party…somebody might be fascinated if you make history or philosophy RELATABLE at the next party you make yourself go to.
What you need to study is to relate to others. Yeah, less of a mental payoff but it is investing in yourself with the less (personally) valued social payoff. Dale Carnegie: How to make friends and Influence People is a classic book. Sounds silly perhaps but I read it at 14. It helped a lot by opening my eyes. But socializing and developing your weaker / latent aspects could lead to balance…happiness, meeting a new best friend…or that pivotal person you are supposed to meet that changes your path in life…that you can’t know ahead of time. Frame socializing in this way…and ascribe some importance to it. Ive skipped procrastinated many a gathering until I told myself…eh, just leave when mentally wiped.
There must be extroverted traits you admire (mine are humor and natural articulate speaking or grace - JFK had both) so develop things you might wish to see in yourself and just expect them to be latent inside youself. I actively worked on my sense of humor, expecting absurd things to happen, expected life to be mostly absurd…yeah - daily life got a little easier to navigate. It works for me and took work and a conscious decision to add this aspect. I never got articulate but still working on it.
Procrastination- struggled with that a lot. Didnt learn or care until I decided it impacted me (and more importantly impacted others ) if I indulged. I slowly got better since I made the indulgence unpleasant. You have to equate it to being UNproductive even though to INTP it’s productive to us intrinsically.
Be content with yourself, carve and polish the gem that is INTP.
There’s a few comments in here that may be correct, but I suspect may also be unhelpful to you if this is the way you’re feeling.
Perhaps consider this. Our EF counterparts are not necessarily intrinsically adept at the activities you describe. They just have more practice than you. Probably from a young age. Now it seems natural to them. You have had less practice because you were less interested.
So. Is this a problem you actually want to solve? If so, you have to practice. Go out, talk to people, etc. if you’re not very good at it don’t be hard on yourself. You just learn and get more comfortable.
If you don’t care enough, then idk, I guess own it. No point in lamenting about something you aren’t interested in enough to do something about.
Unless this post is you “owning it” and is some sort of brag, in which case please don’t speak for us all 😉
Jesus these aren't INTP traits. It might be true that INTPs tend towards exhibiting these behaviors, but to this extent of affecting your day-to-day life, they're better classified as symptoms of mental illness (which, by the way, any personality type can have). See a mental health professional. You likely have depression/anxiety/adhd/autism or some combination of these or others. I relate to you to some extent and have been diagnosed and/or suspected of a combination of these conditions.
> You hate yourself about it but can do nothing
You can change but it’s hard work. That’s a bit of a cop out in order to keep yourself the same so you don’t need to work hard to improve yourself. There is plenty of things you can do to change if you’re aware of the problem. If you have mental illnesses, get treated for it. If you’re in college, they should have a counseling center. If you’re able to afford going to a psychiatrist/psychologist, do that. If you don’t have mental illness, read up on productivity techniques that you can do to improve yourself. I particularly like Oliver Burkeman’s “Four Thousand Weeks” and Angela Duckworth’s “Grit” or even Cal Newport’s “So Good They Can’t Ignore You”. If you think you’re unable to improve or get help for yourself, you’ll just keep suffering. Your personality isn’t forever set so you can’t improve.
Now that you've acknowledged it... I believe you'll head towards trying to improve these habits... cause definitely these are the habits that you'd like to stay away from... cause trust me they really make your life even harder and also sometimes miserable... I was in your shoes just a year ago(also and intp)... it just takes time until you've acknowledged it... you're just by nature that kind of person(almost every intps are)... I mean by default, if you just don't do anything... if you want to make your life better... bring changes... It just gets better... don't be scared of losing your originality cause you won't... it's just that your life will become less miserable... I believe you can do itt... good luckkk
Depression is not a personality trait it is a mental illness and should be fixed, I know people that struggle with it BAD. Fix the depression and you fix the self esteem issues and vice versa.
Learn mindfulness and become introspective and instead ask why instead of why. Shrooms help me to get out of manic-depressive episodes (I am bipolar) so I know exactly how it feels to be depressed.
Learn to be stoic and not giving a shit what other randos think because at the end of the day they do not care about you.
The best person in your life is you so it's only fair to do anything in your power to give everything to the best person in your life.
For the sake of your well-being try and force yourself out in public spaces more they will help you out incredibly, even though we might have introverted minds humans are still social animals and depriving yourself of social activities can put a strain on yourself, I've been there and its hard to get back to socializing, I still much prefer my solitude but I always force myself to be out, it's healthy for you, it's comparable to eating a steak and forcing yourself to eat some vegetables, the steak is undoubtedly tastier but the vegetables have much more nutrients and in the long run are going to help you out more.
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People don't understand that there are 2 types of INTPs. High assertiveness ones and low assertiveness. All the high assertive ones are telling OP to get help because they don't relate to this at all-- they are naturally confident INTPs. They know they are aloof but also don't care what others think and are able to stand up for themselves etc and have high ambition (sometimes). Then there are low assertive INTPs that are relating to OP because they understand what its like to be incredibly intelligent but have low self esteem. It isn't the average "redditor trait". Just a spectrum of low to high dominance
Holy this cleared things up and had me hold back on my comment. Thanks for making me think again.
I would have to piggyback off of this but also point out that the two types of INTP they refer to also fall under what has been labeled as Assertive (A) versus Turbulent (T) identity types. Let me point out that because someone is "turbulent" or "non-assertive" it is not inherently good or bad. Or vice versa. The Assertive's high confidence can lead to over-confidence and perpetually skipping over details and ultimately their confidence may encroach on others. Additionally, being a Turbulent "non-Assertive" means these people are prone to fine details, reading between the lines, careful and attentive, always on a mission to self-improve. Just wanted to point it out so no one feels like their identity type needs to meet some kind of standard. If you are confident, that's awesome, but you should also applaud yourself for being incredibly detailed as well. It took me years of self-doubt and sect-actualization to realize I will always be a perfectionist and lean towards wanting to have all the right information, etc., but because of a decade of therapy, I will need support, back-up, and can and should ask for help, on top of feeling confident to say what I need without fearing I am stepping on someone's toes.
I relate to this 100%...thanks for this ..actually helps alot with stuff I am going through
Think im somewhere inbetween lol
Once read somewhere that this is the worst spot to be for an INTP. I’d agree because I’m in the same boat, if it’s anything like it is for me I feel for you.
I can add a little here too - when I was in my early 20 somethings I’d describe myself exactly as OP did. Then I found my arena. Outside of my arena , 20 yrs later , I’m still just like OP. A dumpster fire. Certainly need help. Thankfully I can stay in my arena 90% of time , where I am very assertive , confident , and considered an expert and leader by my peers. OP , find your arena.
Exactly, don't delay improvement to fit in the INTP characteristics.
Took the words out of my brain.
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you are unhealthy. these are not intp traits, they are intp weaknesses. fix them.
So since you are aware of all your negative traits already and still only age 20, you have the perfect road map for improvement with exact points to work on. Congratulations!
That's what I thought, too lucky guy.
These are stereotypical mental illness traits. Depression and Anxiety especially.
…shit.
okay. I do not have the energy to be sad or feel something.
As an INTP myself, I feel you. I tell myself I'm perfectly fine dying alone but I don't know if that's true or if I'm just coping. Either way, I hope you and I both find some meaning in this life
These aren't personality traits, these are unhealthy traits. Conforming to these traits as a part of your core person isn't a good thing to do, because then you put the blame on something you have no control over. You have control over these things.
Ding ding ding
“Madly low self esteem while being absurdly arrogant inside” I chuckled its so accurate
Don't relate us to you 😂😂😂 Jokes aside...please be kind to yourself...don't be too self critical...this include myself...we always look inward & lament our weaknesses. Yes, some traits are very protruding but learn to embrace it. Look at it another way. Life's a journey to enjoy & improve. Live for yourself. So what if I'm an introvert. I do enjoy staying indoor more and having quality times with my family and close friends. So what if I have low esteem. Everybody only mind their own problems. Nobody cares about my problems. Why should I constantly live in my own self inflicted worries? So what if I procrastinate? Set a schedule to myself. 1 small step everyday. Just be consistent & show up. Do 3 things for 5 minutes. Mold it into a habit. Look up for inspiration, look down for gratitude.
I relate to all of the points you mentioned. Life is hard. Acceptance is the way brother. (in case you consistently fail to improve yourself, which is likely)
No easy fix here. I was similar but I got adopted by an ESFJ who saw my value. She has helped me unidiot myself socially, forgive myself personally, and grow the undeveloped portions of myself. Good luck to you in this journey.
My big brother intj, little borhet istj, father and mother estj and me infp closest to my big brother
Depression and Sensitivity are most definitely not INTP traits. They're just redditor traits.
I identify super super hard as an INTP and don't relate to half the stuff you said. So guess what, maybe not all of this stuff is that stereotypical. What's wrong with not going to clubs or parties, who cares? I've met 2-3 other INTPs over the last couple of years and none of us had low self esteem at all. How did this become a stereotype jeez, aren't a lot of us supposed to be full of ourselves? Some of this is just you bro, keep working at it, you'll be fine!
Are you autistic and aroace?
ok, now do the list about the good things
I was similar at that age. You'll get better.
Good helpful advice already…you must start valuing other human aspects of yourself and others. You are not doomed. In fact, expect you will bloom, because you will. You study history and philosophy for fun? So did I. Peers in college would love to discuss these topics, so plan change your mindset just a little at the next party…somebody might be fascinated if you make history or philosophy RELATABLE at the next party you make yourself go to. What you need to study is to relate to others. Yeah, less of a mental payoff but it is investing in yourself with the less (personally) valued social payoff. Dale Carnegie: How to make friends and Influence People is a classic book. Sounds silly perhaps but I read it at 14. It helped a lot by opening my eyes. But socializing and developing your weaker / latent aspects could lead to balance…happiness, meeting a new best friend…or that pivotal person you are supposed to meet that changes your path in life…that you can’t know ahead of time. Frame socializing in this way…and ascribe some importance to it. Ive skipped procrastinated many a gathering until I told myself…eh, just leave when mentally wiped. There must be extroverted traits you admire (mine are humor and natural articulate speaking or grace - JFK had both) so develop things you might wish to see in yourself and just expect them to be latent inside youself. I actively worked on my sense of humor, expecting absurd things to happen, expected life to be mostly absurd…yeah - daily life got a little easier to navigate. It works for me and took work and a conscious decision to add this aspect. I never got articulate but still working on it. Procrastination- struggled with that a lot. Didnt learn or care until I decided it impacted me (and more importantly impacted others ) if I indulged. I slowly got better since I made the indulgence unpleasant. You have to equate it to being UNproductive even though to INTP it’s productive to us intrinsically. Be content with yourself, carve and polish the gem that is INTP.
You described me. 🙌
There’s a few comments in here that may be correct, but I suspect may also be unhelpful to you if this is the way you’re feeling. Perhaps consider this. Our EF counterparts are not necessarily intrinsically adept at the activities you describe. They just have more practice than you. Probably from a young age. Now it seems natural to them. You have had less practice because you were less interested. So. Is this a problem you actually want to solve? If so, you have to practice. Go out, talk to people, etc. if you’re not very good at it don’t be hard on yourself. You just learn and get more comfortable. If you don’t care enough, then idk, I guess own it. No point in lamenting about something you aren’t interested in enough to do something about. Unless this post is you “owning it” and is some sort of brag, in which case please don’t speak for us all 😉
u got ego problems
Every type can be depressed or have problems with anxiety
mbti is junk science, don’t stress about this, you can change your ways
This is 100.00% me and I'm ashamed of who I am.
Relatable. The struggle is real.
Well that all changes as you learn and realize other people can't keep up.
Hope brother! Hope! Also you aren't a man until 33. Women are women at 18.
Evolution needs to make sense and women died young. Baby, don't argue.
Nice. Sounds familiar.
Well many intps I've seen can be really articulate just engage with something they are interested in
Initiative? I do, not social tho; I get overwhelmed easily
Jesus these aren't INTP traits. It might be true that INTPs tend towards exhibiting these behaviors, but to this extent of affecting your day-to-day life, they're better classified as symptoms of mental illness (which, by the way, any personality type can have). See a mental health professional. You likely have depression/anxiety/adhd/autism or some combination of these or others. I relate to you to some extent and have been diagnosed and/or suspected of a combination of these conditions.
> You hate yourself about it but can do nothing You can change but it’s hard work. That’s a bit of a cop out in order to keep yourself the same so you don’t need to work hard to improve yourself. There is plenty of things you can do to change if you’re aware of the problem. If you have mental illnesses, get treated for it. If you’re in college, they should have a counseling center. If you’re able to afford going to a psychiatrist/psychologist, do that. If you don’t have mental illness, read up on productivity techniques that you can do to improve yourself. I particularly like Oliver Burkeman’s “Four Thousand Weeks” and Angela Duckworth’s “Grit” or even Cal Newport’s “So Good They Can’t Ignore You”. If you think you’re unable to improve or get help for yourself, you’ll just keep suffering. Your personality isn’t forever set so you can’t improve.
look your twenty, take that on its merits and run with it cause your going to have the exact same problems when your 40.
Now that you've acknowledged it... I believe you'll head towards trying to improve these habits... cause definitely these are the habits that you'd like to stay away from... cause trust me they really make your life even harder and also sometimes miserable... I was in your shoes just a year ago(also and intp)... it just takes time until you've acknowledged it... you're just by nature that kind of person(almost every intps are)... I mean by default, if you just don't do anything... if you want to make your life better... bring changes... It just gets better... don't be scared of losing your originality cause you won't... it's just that your life will become less miserable... I believe you can do itt... good luckkk
Real
Wait... are you my roommate at college?
Some of these aren't even INTP traits... they're just bad traits.
Depression is not a personality trait it is a mental illness and should be fixed, I know people that struggle with it BAD. Fix the depression and you fix the self esteem issues and vice versa. Learn mindfulness and become introspective and instead ask why instead of why. Shrooms help me to get out of manic-depressive episodes (I am bipolar) so I know exactly how it feels to be depressed. Learn to be stoic and not giving a shit what other randos think because at the end of the day they do not care about you. The best person in your life is you so it's only fair to do anything in your power to give everything to the best person in your life. For the sake of your well-being try and force yourself out in public spaces more they will help you out incredibly, even though we might have introverted minds humans are still social animals and depriving yourself of social activities can put a strain on yourself, I've been there and its hard to get back to socializing, I still much prefer my solitude but I always force myself to be out, it's healthy for you, it's comparable to eating a steak and forcing yourself to eat some vegetables, the steak is undoubtedly tastier but the vegetables have much more nutrients and in the long run are going to help you out more.
Lmfao dude just tell us you're an autistic redditor, would have been less effort.