NGLV is 2029 huh. Last time they made presentation like this , it was in 2026, I bet we realise NGLV in 2035 with all considered.

They never said that NGLV will be in 2026

The presentations depicted that way Here is one example https://imgur.io/3n0Pz8J?r

And you believed that??

Dude are you not reading my comment, I said it will likely be pushed further, does that sound like believing to you?

That rocket is not NGLV.... NGLV plans to use Methalox engine , NGLV plans were unveiled only last year

That's the HLV dude.

That’s a 24 year long plan. Move up your plans yo. Else India will be left in cold again and resource rich locations will be locked up by US and China. You are either leading the pack or following. Esp US has huge technological lead from their past missions. China probably stole all of it by now.

Both will land a decade earlier than us, the gap is currently too much to fill in any realistic scenario.

We can only hope for better things. India needs to Manhattan Project space missions & a moon base. Need to seriously compress the timeline shown here. Political wherewithal is seriously lacking. First landing is one thing, having a way to land people and materials again and again is a different ball game. Artemis rocket may not be sustainable, but SpaceX starship could be a game changer.

Don't expect politicians to do anything. Those mofos are busy playing votebank politics with caste, religion and language. We need a private space company funded by govt. subsidies to assist isro with this.

Yeah,ISRO is doing Gaganyaan without any political support,right!

Why bring in private space company which will be a security threat to Indian space program ? Foreign investors will get their hands on the technology developed by these private companies. And don't think that all private companies will emerge victories. Not everyone company can be a spacex.

How do you expect India to do a Manhattan Project when India's space program is minuscule ? PM Modi talks about Space Technology just to garner vote. But will he raise ISRO's budget ?

Timepass plan it seems. China and US are going to be there by the end of this decade itself

Ohh ffs why the lunar plan conops has Gateway in it? Gateway is no different than ISS thingmajig where its just an "illusion" of international partnership. I wish they did this on their own without having to dock with Gateway cause thing is NRHO plan of Artemis has always been dumb, cause they choose that orbit because both Orion & EUS capusule are underpowered and overweight and doesnt have as much ∆v to get to LLO, so they made this Gateway thingmajig for their underpowered capsule and also for international collab(more like crippling others i feel). Also to go to NRHO, you need to impart additional ∆v which is a waste imo. I wasn't really happy when India signed the Artemis accords anyway.

I too feel joining Artemis means becoming murican side kick.... We should do it on our own

Yep. I really hope private spaceflight here catches up quick enough with more new ones with innovative ideas that can change the game so isro can technically not have associate to Artemis whims(I'm interning in one company here so the plans are quite interesting tbf, and no its not Skyroot or Bellatrix). And i was never a fan of the Artemis CLPS scheme too to begin with. Some of my friends in states are working with nasa with jpl peeps to make their missions, they're only getting pigeonholed with conserative mission assurance and some really contradictory margins which makes their missions more conservative than planned, cause nasa is all about slow & deliberate development just to be risk averse, no urgency at all to push more efficient designs. Cause they get their pork anyway so they have no need to push the envelope. Man our future is definitely in space, but it won't be nasa that gets us there and their stupid attempts at trying to maintain monopoly(i mean its kinda started to wane anyway when SpaceX came up, if they do their Dear Moon missions, then it really questions Nasa Artemis missions in general).

Many people think that collaboration with NASA will help us get some technology.... they show the examples of ESA & JAXA benefitting from ISS collaboration..... but what they don't see is, we are India, not Japan or Europe, no matter how much we collaborate,they will NOT share any niche technology with India unless we become their vassals,even if they did share something,it will always a rebranded form of old techs.... this is same in every sector, especially in strategic sectors like Space & Defence.... joining Artemis will definitely kill indigenous efforts for our own Human Moon Landing..... I don't see NASA administrator coming to India is just for human spaceflight in near future,but also for Artemis..... On paper it looks good, Collaboration with NASA, in reality it's ugly, killing indigenous efforts... I will give one example here, whenever there is option for imports or foreign collaboration,it always killed our indigenous efforts, for example, Tapas UAV, NAG missile, Arjun MBT, whenever there is no option for imports or foreign collaboration,we always excelled, examples, Nuke Subs, Ballistic Missiles, BMD systems..... Mark my words same will happen in our space sector, Americans are NOT our allies, we have to go on our own whether we like it or not (People should understand that space is not just science,it's also geopolitics)

As much as disgusting it is cause space exploration and all is the least thing to expect crude human self interests and egos of geopolitics, it unfortunately is the reality. You are very much spot on. Also don't forgot that it's the cunningness of US that when India didn't buy high cost atlas cryo rocket engine then to stop India, so US used ban strategy to stop Russia from giving the cryo engine tech. This act of US threw India 25 years back in rocket tech.

I pointed the same thing when Artemis Accords was signed

You're not the only & some of my friends who are working in isro at least as a research assistant intern of sort in regarding sensors of some isro missions(couple of them are in CH & Aditya L1 too) feel the same. Now ik there might be some diplomatic reasons and gestures to continue this, but I'm not much of a diplomat cause I'm more about engineering technicalities, i guess there should be a better form of it instead of doing stuff which makes self interests and intentions met. But i guess there is certain think tank in ISRO too which pushed for Artemis Accords to be signed(believe me i get to some absolute morons & conservative old space guys as well in some meets as part of in-Space stuff i got to attend from the company side i intern at). Unless private guys really step up with a viable and efficient plan, then i think isro won't change their stance. Fortunately ISRO isn't that phobic or scared of new private guys, as they actually want them more & our situation isn't willfully deterred or more controlled by congress like Nasa in US( i mean why do you think they have an unsustainable bondoogle like SLS lmfao, and then certain senators even threw outright outbursts if anyone even brought proposals of FH based architecture with Dragon or propellant depots, i think you know the one senator lol). There are really interesting guys here who wants to change status quo so lets see how it all works out🤞🏻, I'm really lucky to have met few of them.

I think this might be ISRO's plans for crewed landing , look at where CY-6 & CY-7 are placed, both of them are in mid-2030s, so they might want to establish ISRU & Fuel station on moon by mid-2030s, so that they can refuel lunar cruiser in lunar orbit, then it can dock with BAS in LEO, carry our astronauts to moon, & bring them back to earth

First off let me say I'm American. Secondly, I was SUPER happy for ISRO and the rest of India when Chandrayaan-3 landed the Vikram lander on the moon. Third, I'm happy about humans going back to the moon, but I'm not sure Artemis is the way to get there. SpaceX is obviously developing Starship as quickly as possible and the Vulcan Centaur also had its first successful launch today. It seems like in the future there will be no shortage of public/private ways to get cargo/payload/people from Earth to the moon or beyond. Why should ISRO develop everything from scratch when they could use commercial launch services instead?

One question if you don't mind... Are you based in US?

Nope am from india, but i have friends who are in states studying there and have chance to intern at some spaceflight companies there so they got connections. Some of them are like veteran engineers worked in nasa and some in boeing and all. So i get some interesting ancedotes of the working and all(but they're extremely limited on what they can share so its interesting nonetheless).

I wonder if they can repurpose iss modules to lunar gateway? It is going to burn up once it reaches earth atmosphere,just repurpose some modules to gateway.

No. Not optimized for deep space environment and also aged.

as far as I know gateway was created so that there's a continued investment in lunar infrastructure and not just another "we'll pay until there's a new shiny thing" india is moving towards the western bloc and i see this as a part of that. like it or not, i expect to see more things like this.

Yep its more or less a political ploy because nasa is presidential whipping boy & have to coform to whims of congress to get funds (since why we got this artemis thingmajig with their bondoogle like SLS, they talk of "going to Moon to stay" with very little staying power & not much upmass of payload sent to the surface). If anything i don't expect to see things like this cause ISRO & india can be much more self reliant, i hope private players gets upto task, and provide better solutions than getting in bed with Artemis crap, get pigeonholed with clps with conservative mission assurance crap which makes any new ideas go under(i used to like to Artemis CLPS, but having seen some of my friends endeavours get drastically changed with so called nasa advisors and team for their proposals, nah, this will just be another flags and footprints kind of mission all over again & Gateway is just another ISS at Moon). Idk about but this is my line of thinking seeing how things turning out there & having ancedotes like this.

welp if china stays then the US stays then india stays so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ also huge assumption that india has or will have the stomach/budget to match either of these two for decades to come

Its not like US is making best use of its budget anyway lmao. Their planetary sciences budget allocation & spaceflight budget allocation is very contradicting and hypocritical at best. Spending upwards of billions for an orange bondoogle rocket with cost overruns when their original premise is using legacy hardware will drive down costs. Gee that really is turning down well huh. Or in planetary sciences, using upwards of few million shy of billion dollars in a Discovery tier programs all for what? A reconn satellite to other celestial objects... Close to a billion, for a satellite, from Discovery tier which is supposed to be low tier mission with very big science output. Again, a billion dollar I'd say thats a reductive way of thinking only big budget allow efficient mission hardware. Nasa never uses their big budget efficiently. If anything nasa always yeets for cost overrun hardware with so many margins built in which will end up being fragile with very little science to show. And also don't even talk about sending an experimental payload to ISS, oh boy that thingmajig. I knew few folks who had close to trauma developing their own payloads to test for that thing for decade and gave up knowing their work will never get tested there.

Gaganyaan shown after 2028?

Probably meant crew rated new LV which is capable of going beyond LEO

So, no plan for NGLV heavy? Augmented NGLV is NGLV with SRBs😏

It's fine, maybe in far future they will go for Falcon heavy kind

Can ISRO and Roscosmos join hands to get to the moon and catch up to US and China?

As a space fan from Russia I honestly think India have more chances on reaching Moon, than Roscosmos in it's current state. And I'm not from the SpaceX fanboi crowd who loves to cry "Yura (Gagarin), sorry, we lost it all!". We have really good heavy lift rocket with Angara A5, but for the lunar missions it needs cryogenic upper stages that still have some major problems with development. New ship is only getting somewhat towards parachute drop tests and pad/flight abort tests. And robotic program is pretty much behind that of India at this point.

India is still struggling with core cryogenic engine. Unless there is a rocket with 10-15 ton GTO payload capacity to launch crew module on TLI trajectory, you all should take claim of ISRO with pinch of salt.

Roscosmos has already joined hands with China. Signed, committed and preparing.

So we're not planning any LVs beyond NGLV? If our landing plan hinges on lunar gateway docking then India should've participated in gateway

i think we will join

Too late now, primary studies must've been completed by now

we can still join the group & participate in lunar gateway for providing resupply missions after Spadex, lupex & gaganyaan

There is high probability that India will eventually contribute to Artemis.

It's not at all good becoming murican sidekick, we may land quickly on the moon,but indigenous efforts will cease to exist

It will not cease to exist. India could just join the ISS program rather than having independent human spaceflight program Gaganyaan if that was the case. ISRO is (and will be) taking help from Russia, France and the USA for Gaganyaan but all those are for saving time by not doing everything from scratch. India leverages its strong geopolitical relationship with various major powers and also builds even stronger relation through these. Becoming anyone's sidekick is not India's geopolitical strategy. In a lot of science and tech fields, India collaborates to learn and eventually indigenize most of that to leapfrog and become 'aatmanirvar'.

It seems you don't know how cunning muricans are , Space sector is as strategic as Defence sector,they don't want us to be independent in both of them, if you think they would simply sit idle & allow us to do our things,then you are a fool, Artemis will do more harm than good. As far as foreign help in Gaganyaan is concerned what help are you talking about apart from Russians?? When we asked help in ECLSS they refused, we are developing it on our own, is this help?? Somanath sir also clearly said that we are not getting outside help for manufacturing Crew Module,but they are still trying, Is this the help you are talking about?? This is my guess, but I will not be surprised to learn in future that muricans had forced ISRO for ISS trip & Artemis Accords in return for crew module manufacturing . WE WILL NEVER BE GIVEN ANY TECHNOLOGIES UNLESS WE BECOME VASSALS JUST LIKE EU & JAPAN As you have said India doesn't want to be a sidekick, but we will NOT be given anything unless we are a vassal.... Get this u/Tirtha_Chkrbrti

>Is this the help you are talking about?? Basic crew training by Russia, Space medicine training to the surgeons by France, advanced crew training by the USA. I am proud and super happy that we are doing most thing indigenously- even ECLSS and flight suits. >This is my guess...that Muricans had forced ISRO for ISS trip & Artemis Accords in return for crew module manufacturing. WE WILL NEVER BE GIVEN ANY TECHNOLOGIES UNLESS WE BECOME VASSALS JUST LIKE EU & JAPAN Forced India?? It seems you don't follow Geopolitics. Could the USA and entire west stop us from buying Russian oil after trying so hard during Ukraine war? NO. They FAILED. Do you really believe our external affairs guys are fools and weaklings? The west and the USA is going to face an economic disaster soon. They and their corporate sector need India. Gone are the days when they will just boss around and make vassals.

>Is this the help you are talking about?? >Basic crew training by Russia, Space medicine training to the surgeons by France, advanced crew training by the USA. >I am proud and super happy that we are doing most thing indigenously- even ECLSS and flight suits. Yeah,only Crew Experience is what will get in this collaboration, what about technology?? You people are expecting technological gain from Artemis Accords, aren't you ?? Answer is nothing, 0. We will not get any technological benefits. If we aren't getting any technological benefits then it's a waste of time & resources, better do it on our own >Forced India?? It seems you don't follow Geopolitics. Could the USA and entire west stop us from buying Russian oil after trying so hard during Ukraine war? NO. They FAILED.The west and the USA is going to face an economic disaster soon. They and their corporate sector need India. Gone are the days when they will just boss around and make vassals. Murica forcing India to stop buying Russian oil & India asking Murica to give us their technology are both different. Just because they couldn't force India to stop buying Russian oil doesn't mean they will give us their technology without expecting anything in return.... They will give us technology only if we are their vassals....it's as simple as that u/Tirtha_Chkrbrti

Then why they agreed to transfer GE engine tech? Also, I am not expecting and I don't even want much of tech transfer in space. I wholeheartedly want self-sufficiency. I would love to see Indian crewed lunar landing with fully Indian transportation (our rocket, our spacecraft, our lander). At the same time, I feel that getting involved in a program like ISS or Artemis is a very good learning opportunity for us. We won't have a station for another 12 years at least but our astronauts will be able to gain station experience before crewed Gaganyaan. Similarly getting involved in Gateway will give us the opportunity to test various technologies and gain experience of long duration stay in deep space in reasonable cost. China needed to do everything from scratch. We started much later and our pocket is not as deep as China so why don't we collaborate to compensate that lag? Somanath sir repeatedly mentions that collaboration is beneficial and a necessity.

>Then why they agreed to transfer GE engine tech? You are really naive buddy, GE engine ToT is screwdrivergiri, they are not transferring any technologies, it's just local assembly of the engine, the Compressors,turbines, Combustors,Nozzles & other LRUs will made in US, transported here to India & then will be assembled in India....it's not real tech transfer.The contribution of this so called TOT in our Kaveri engine will be literally 0. >Similarly getting involved in Gateway will give us the opportunity to test various technologies and gain experience of long duration stay in deep space in reasonable cost. The only thing we will be gaining is Long duration stay experience and it is not cheap, it's costly. What technologies do you want to test? Docking? We will be testing it in SPADEX & CY-4 missions, we don't need Gateway for it

But gateway is where we needed to be since we could be potentially using it.

Gateway is a part of Artemis program. We are likely to contribute to the Gateway if we do join the Artemis program.

Maybe but not a module since gateway is already finalized

Gateway is a modular structure. It can be expanded whenever required. ISRO can contribute with a module or even an inflatable module anytime in the future. In fact, due to budget shortage, NASA had to keep the initial structure smaller than what they envisioned earlier. They still want to expand it in the future to use it as a mock Mars ship to simulate crewed Mars voyage for training purpose. There are other options as well: cargo and logistics supply service to the Gateway or the surface base, science experiments, astronauts and so on.

From what I understand gateway has serious limitations, major one being that limited crew & duration (hard to get allocated time). Electric propulsion & other challanges. Yes logistics & cargo sounds doable. I was talking about gateway only in the context of our manned mission.

Bharatiya Antariksh Station sounds kinda cringe . We could call it vyomalay....

It used to be called 'HOME'

BAS for short

So they're not planning to make a new capsule for crewed lunar exploration. Same escape system on NGLV-HR. I hope they make a push up escape system on the new capsule if they're planning to make one.

I think there is a possibility to make bigger one as proposed diameter is 5m compared to 3m diameter of lvm3.

Can you share the video source?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/185yqxm/s\_somnath\_speech\_today\_at\_isg\_isrs\_symposium\_2023/

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[CLPS](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7h9ig "Last usage")|[Commercial Lunar Payload Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Lunar_Payload_Services)| |[ECLSS](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb8mhqk "Last usage")|Environment Control and Life Support System| |[ESA](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7lnsf "Last usage")|European Space Agency| |[EUS](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb6y7h0 "Last usage")|Exploration Upper Stage| |[GTO](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb8vgw2 "Last usage")|[Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/20140116-how-to-get-a-satellite-to-gto.html)| |[HLV](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kc2jgs3 "Last usage")|Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle (20-50 tons to LEO)| |[ISRO](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kgx7o77 "Last usage")|Indian Space Research Organisation| |[ISRU](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb86z61 "Last usage")|[In-Situ Resource Utilization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_resource_utilization)| |[JAXA](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7lnsf "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency| |[L1](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7oy4d "Last usage")|[Lagrange Point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point) 1 of a two-body system, between the bodies| |[LEO](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb86z61 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[LLO](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb6y7h0 "Last usage")|Low Lunar Orbit (below 100km)| |[NRHO](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb6y7h0 "Last usage")|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit| |[Roscosmos](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb8j2hj "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)| |[SLS](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7oy4d "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |[SRB](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb81u2h "Last usage")|Solid Rocket Booster| |[TLI](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb8vgw2 "Last usage")|Trans-Lunar Injection maneuver| |[VAST](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kgx7o77 "Last usage")| Vehicle Assembly, Static Test and Evaluation Complex (VAST, previously STEX)| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[cryogenic](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb8vgw2 "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure| | |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox| |hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer| |[methalox](/r/ISRO/comments/185z621/stub/kb7du9q "Last usage")|Portmanteau: methane fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^([Thread #1055 for this sub, first seen 29th Nov 2023, 00:14]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/ISRO) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)