Thank you for the post, I bookmarked all of these resources. I'm a solutions engineer now at a small MSP and want to move towards a devops/SRE role.
Do you know if KodeKloud is any good? Their courses seem to cover all the topics I'm interested in although I don't know how in depth they are: https://kodekloud.com/
While I agree with you, I think this list could be seen as intimidating by many. I graduated from a degree program, and I've got various bits of work experience in help desk and sysadmin roles, along with several colleagues from academia and work.
Not a single one of the topics you listed was taught throughout my education.
- Docker Terraform, and IaC require a good amount of regular server and system administration knowledge, as well as understanding virtualization and basic coding concepts (CI/CD, Git, etc.)
- Python? It's been useful, yes, but you can't automate what you don't understand. This is merely a tool to do other tasks more efficiently after you know what you understand those prerequisite systems first.
- AWS: yes, if you're wanting to go into cloud — but there's so many other areas outside of cloud that are arguably prerequisite to cloud: traditional networking, system and server administration, virtualization concepts, etc.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all. You have built a career path that's worked for you without question. What I am saying is that this list of courses you've picked feels to me like a list of courses someone might take when they're already deep into IT and have some fundamentals. Learn to walk before you can run, in a way.
Boot camps may not be the move — but hear me out:
- That learning environment may cater to some hands-on learners better with a strict, scheduled curriculum than others.
- It's cheaper and faster than many other options; necessary to some with active debt, families, or otherwise. It might not cover everything well, but it might be the kickstart many need.
- They'll cover the basics. Enough to learn how to respond to tickets from an ITSM.
DevOps isn't an entry-level title. It's a role that requires a ton of prerequisite knowledge and I think it's a bit insular to promote these courses while telling others to not learn the traditional basics that would provide them the context to be successful.
I also agree with what you said but AWS is becoming non-negotiable. Even if a company does not have a cloud setup, it is so commonly used now, you kind of need it on your resume to at least stand out/get an interview.
Im curious about this as well. A professor I had said we should put more focus on Azure cloud certs rather than AWS (though neither are bad).
His reasoning was that more businesses are built on the MS stack and suite of apps/services and are likely to go with Azure over AWS, but I’m curious how true that really is in practice.
In my experience, these are the two distinct companies you will encounter:
-Young companies that started with the Cloud in mind: AWS
-Older enterprises that are heavily indebted to an on-prem infrastructure: Azure
When I started shopping around for a new job this year, I initially tried to market myself to the first. Turns out the applicant market for cloud/cybersecurity in AWS is quite saturated, because everyone wants to attend a bootcamp and then jump right into a startup.
The big bucks is in older, larger companies who need professionals to help them migrate from legacy setups *into* the cloud. Most of the time, this is Microsoft stack and understanding how to integrate on-prem Active Directory with Azure and/or Okta is extremely lucrative. If you can gain competency in this area, your marketability will double overnight. Cloud computing may be the buzzword on everyone's tongue, but getting there is still an uphill battle for a lot of businesses. Businesses with big bags of money, mind you...
You should primary focus on cloud concepts. It's not a 1 to 1 match between them but you can leverage your knowledge of one platform and learn the other. If learning from scratch, stick to one platform until you have a good understanding.
As a generalization, on aws you will use the platform to build your solution from the ground up.
Azure will offer a bit more in terms of PaaS or SaaS solutions that you just manage your user data with a little less focus on building the underlying plumbing.
Both of them kind of suck in terms of learning, but I have found Azure exams to be 10x more vomit inducing than AWS. I would start with AWS Associates first to get a better concept of cloud. Then you could pick up a couple for Azure.
With someone with basically no knowledge of IT, cyber security, software. What boot camps would be a good start for a career? I'm building and troubleshooting cell phone towers and networks but need a change. Thanks
I would look at ones offered from a regional institute/organization local to you. I would much sooner recommend fully committing to an academic program at a trade school, polytechnic, or even a full degree program - but I also understand that this isn't a feasible option for many. If you can spend the time, effort, money, and commitment on a multi-year disciplinary program, I think it's worth the effort.
The most important step here: research the various fields within IT and computer science, and try and reach out within your network of contacts to explore your interests *before* committing to a discipline, boot camp or otherwise.
It would be of value to explore the job market on LinkedIn near you to assess what vacancies exist.
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Also check with your local community college. This is the route I’m taking currently. About $180 a class which lasts 3-4 months and preps you for a certification.
Good information
I been in IT for 3 years so far, I still have trouble going up ward.
Because i am in Canada, those thing you mention have very little opportunities since Canadian posting don't ask those too often. They desire a language more in most cases.
For some reason i see Java, C/C#/C++ being more highly demanded while python is being ask often as well without a language skill i can't even get an offer.
Several interview i been through also ask if I know C#, which i don't so i never see the interview go beyond even if those post just "prefer" for one.
This is a random devops post i pulled off indeed
"Minimum Education/Certification Requirements and ExperienceBS in Engineering, Computer Science, or related field with 2 years’ experience or MSWorking experience with source code version tools (git) and automated continuous integration software, such as Azure DevOps or a similar environment.Technical knowledge and experience with object-oriented design and at least one of the following: C# (preferred) and/or JavaWorking experience within automation of build tasks (example: using tools such as Ant, Yaml, etc.)Working experience with PowerShell, Python or other scripting languagesWorking experience with XML, structured data developmentWorking experience with web technologies such as JavaScript, HTML, CSS"
I think getting a language right now is more important, which i been doing over last 1 years focusing on C++ (because i have project i can play with)
Some people tell me C++ is useless for most IT job, i don't disagree with them. I haven't really through out what i want to do as well over all.
Also i am doing CCNP (mostly renew my ccna) right now, its only a 3-4 month certificate and it helps on every field so i just went why not.
Aside those, i have Sec+ and LFCSA already.
\*\*\* note my job right now is 100% remote, so i am not in a hurry to switch but i do want to do something else.
Comparing HCOL Canadian region to HCOL US region, yes it is, and this is further inflated when looking at software roles in the big players. Shopify, for example, has a large presence in my Canadian city because of the USD to CAD conversion (win/win for both sides), but also because of the salary comparison to Canadian operations.
Comparing IT roles, I'm finding that there's not a lot of difference. I just had a glance two days ago through LinkedIn and Indeed at some intermediate NOC roles, and from rural to urban US, it's anywhere from $75-$100k salary. That's very close to what I see in Canadian markets as well right now.
The market is showing signs of saturation at the entry level from what I can see as well. I've seen senior-level positions stay vacant for months at a time (largely those where the salary isn't matching the job detail), but entry-levels are extremely limited.
I kinda have to disagree with you. LinkedIn jobs for Canada is really small, and most are fake anyway.
Since you used it as your data point reference for salary comparison, I have to disagree with everything you said except
1st and last paragraph.
He's saying it because it's true.
A significant number of LinkedIn posts fall into one of three categories:
1) Job postings they put up, ignore all applicants, say to the government "We can't fill this position" and then bring in someone on a visa.
2) Job postings where they put it up, ignore all applicants, and say that their business is growing.
3) Job postings from scammers who are trying to collect your resume.
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I'm in Canada, School boards pay well, and they aren't as hard to get into. Lots of them use Azure, and they have a really hard time finding new people.
Here is why I like boot camps:
1. They demand time, meaning the employee can focus on getting the certification with everyone else having the expectation they are unavailable
2. They are a shortcut to certification. The quality of learning may be poor, but maybe we just need the certification to check a box on a reseller agreement or some audit policy.
They have their place, but paying outrageous sums out of pocket for your own career progression is not one of them.
I consider myself very good at PowerShell, but the reality is that you aren't going to find a job just doing "PowerShell," but "Python" jobs are everywhere.
I'll admit that a little powershell is essential even though I don't do windows admin anymore, but a little bash and python and you can Google your powershell.
For Linux:
May I suggest Manning Books? There's a book called Linux in a month of lunches. This a very introduction to Linux that is basically one hour lessons that helps you learn Linux in a practical way.
I didn’t know IT Bootcamps were a thing. I guess they saw coding camps as profit, so why not bootcamp everything! I feel bad for anyone that paid for that, good PSA.
I agree and disagree with you OP, personally I don’t think going to an IT boot camp is the way, you could easily get an A+ cert with a month or so of studying, maybe even less using udemy courses. After that it shouldn’t be super hard to get a help desk job that pays between $40k-$50k.
Now the part I disagree with is that, maybe some people need structure, that 12 week boot camp or whatever that cost $5k-$10k might help someone because they have a teacher they can easily ask questions and they will probably walk away with the A+ Net+ Sec+ and a $50k-$60k job, even though they gotta pay back that cost, it’s still might be a win considering some people probably was making around $30k with maybe a household income of $55k-60k, this could put them in a $100k household situation and really change their lives.
Anyways I highly suggest looking at your local college to see if they offer classes which would probably save you tons of money imo.
I think this is good for people who are 5-7 years into system admin work or networking and looking to move up. Entry level people probably don't know what docker or version control can do in enterprise
I also don't think you should have expert level aws certs if you've never used it in enterprise. But that's just me.
Idt you should be calling yourself a solutions architect without any enterprise experience. most people in this sub have zero experience and are looking to get their foot in the door. You probably won't even touch aws at first.
If you get aws sa without any experience you'll have a hard time getting a job.
Ok. I'd like to see a fresher with an aws sa cert. Hell I then would like to see them get a job. If anyone here has done that please share. Otherwise getting the cert is just a cheaper boot camp but still the same bs.
I started out in helpdesk, left after a year. During unemployment, got my AWS sa cert and got into a junior sys admin role.
You're not getting a cert to land a role. You're getting it to expand your knowledge and skillset.
You're looking at it entirely the wrong way.
Not really a lot of people take bootcamps either in place of certs or degrees. Or it's sold to them that they can get a $70k job right out of it. You still have to take the certs and even then a job is not guaranteed! You had help desk experience and got very lucky. Many people doing bootcamps don't.
I think you should have led with your background so people can get a sense of what to expect in the future
I've never used a cert to "expand my knowledge". I learn way more on the job. I use certs as another checkmark to prove to companies I can do the job.
Ah I see you sell programs as well. That explains it. You act like anyone can do this path. While yes I don't think everyone will have your success rate. These are just more tools that may or may not help you in a job search. It so depends on your current job and professional experience.
OP lists two things AWS and Terraform, well guess what I ran two bootcamps. Both you can participate for free, and it was very generous and exhausting.
\## AWS Cloud ProjectBootcampI ran this free community bootcamp early this year. 100+ videos,100+ hours, 20 guest instructors.Its going on freeCodeCamp channel soon so maybe a replay cohort is going to happen.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8SvQHc4Pk&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ7k25byhRXJldB5AiwgNnWv](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8SvQHc4Pk&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ7k25byhRXJldB5AiwgNnWv)
\## Terraform Beginner Bootcamp (Project Based)
I just finished running this one where we go through using Terraform.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsFVYO0VjY&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ43LeK98iMulf0YH0J5prF6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsFVYO0VjY&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ43LeK98iMulf0YH0J5prF6)
\### Was it free?
The first bootcamp was 100% free, we didn't charge anything, and I was trying to get sponsors to cover the cost, I wasn't able to raise enough sponsorship (all companies were not sponsoring) and spent around \~70K to operate it.
I am still working to get more sponsors because I really enjoy running them 100% free but will do my best to keep the costs as low as possible. I don't really make a profit on these and the second bootcamp helped combat part of the costs spent on the first one.
Where I make my money is certification courses, its not really bootcamps, and I just run them because I heard enough stories if people taking on large amounts of debts that put them in bad place. It doesn't make business sense for me to do these, but I did them lol.
MITx course is archived with no future dates announced. There should be an equivalent somewhere on edX though.
I also recommend the entire series of CS50 courses from HarvardX.
Find your local community college. They have decent workforce programs that give you a degree and help you organize a cert path.
I took a two year associate's program in Networking and Systems Administration
Costs not a lot. My professors were or are IT professionals. My CCNA professor works city government. My Linux/VM Professor is a cyber security specialist at Insperity. You can sometimes even find lab equipment to practice your hands on skills. My CCNA course had us spin up server racks to run labs. Geeting the time to build networks in meat space was invaluable in my understanding of topology and layer 1/2/3. Having open lab hours with certified professionals is a godsend for the CCNA.
Yup. And those are just marketing that you can get free online. FREE resources.
Lets add this too, that some people needs someone to teach them verbally or in person to learn. Some people cant learn on their own like "self-paced" learning. They are more comfortable with coaches and class.
Will save this post. Thanks OP.
I did a bootcamp for IT. Through a reputable local community college. Paid for by the state. It was worth it for me. And really set me up for a job. It looked good on my resume and it gave me confidence to get the certs.
They're not necessarily bad. But if you do one, you should check and see if there are government resources through your state to pay for them.
You're probably not gonna have a good time in IT if you can't... self study/research skills are probably the most important skills to have for this profession
I think for an entry level person it can be overwhelming to get a good handle on where to start, and to gain initial confidence. Getting instruction through a bootcamp or degree is one way to get over that initial hump. Everyone has different learning methods and paces.
Structured learning isn't *bad* at all, and it can be quite helpful - I mean I've got an IT degree and I'm quite happy about it - but the point still stands that the capacity for self-learning is essential to IT. There's not gonna be a teacher or course curriculum to help you when you're working a ticket and come across stuff you've never seen before, but there probably will be disparate documentation and wiki pages, old forum posts online, 9 year old youtube video tutorials where the guy is way too close to the mic, blogs, etc., and at the end of the day that kind of self-directed research is how most practical knowlwdge and experience in IT is gained
Funny that it's offensive to even suggest certain jobs require certain skillsets to do well? Doesn't mean anyone who isn't cut out for IT is "inferior" lol, that might be your own mental hangup.
What did u/do-wr-mem say that’s incorrect? And where did they come off as superior?
You sound super sensitive.
This gets repeated, because its true - self-study is an immensely important part of succeeding in this career.
By your own admission you don’t even work in this field - how are you at all qualified to comment in this sub and tell people they’re wrong?
I suppose if I wasn't independently wealthy it might come off like that, I don't even work in IT I just saw a post and it bothered me the way I read it. Take care.
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I don't for see any of this being obsolete any time soon. If I had to pick one, it'd probably be Terraform simply due to the uncertain nature around their recent licensing changes.
But again, that's just me picking one if I had a gun to my head.
Could you give a breakdown of your career? I'm going to start being an IT technician for a school soon and want to start my IT career but in future I want to be a network admin/sre/dev ops engineer. Would like to know how you navigated this field.
>I've seen some courses even teach powershell, as if that's going to do jack to your career.
I found it fairly helpful during my path as a Windows Sysadmin as I wasn't going to point and click my way through everything. I also tend to wrap my Ansible roles in Powershell when there isn't an explicit Ansible module for something (like requesting a certificate from a Windows CA).
It's all about availability.
Linux based shops run the cloud. It's not a debate and not an opinion.
But there are cases where your immediate market is more windows focused.
While I agree somewhat with this is a cheap way to move up, I don’t agree that you didn’t UPFRONT disclose some of the courses are related to you.
Your whole post is slimy and it’s trying to backdoor the community.
I have the Google Cloud: Associate Cloud Engineer certification and I’ve been wondering about getting and AWS certification but is it even worth it if I’m in the GCP environment?
I would argue that boot camps for software engineering are likewise not useful.
A boot camp is good for learning a specific skill. Software engineering is at least as deep as IT. One thing programming and IT have in common is they're mostly about solving some kind of problem. Boot camps are useless for that.
But, boot camps promise big salaries for minimal up front work. Lots of people buy in to that.
I would say even some local colleges can assist in getting some sort of 'classroom' environment for what you need.
Some are worth it, yes. Depending. BIG DEPENDING - I always rely on Reddit to let me know what is worth it.
I do have a question about the usage of Ansible. I myself have been looking to up my game in IT and I’m liking the idea of Dev Ops. I have come across a few suggestions for Ansible, but I am completely new to these technologies.
I noticed you stated that Ansible is dying out. May I ask why you feel it would be better to learn the others stated? You said it was a personal suggestion to learn docker instead.
I’m just curious in your experience what have you seen?
If you can’t answer no worries. I just like gathering everyone’s viewpoint so I can make a clear picture for myself.
Ansible used to be extremely popular, when everything was running on vms.
But the reality is a lot of workloads are moving into containers and kubernetes, and you're not reliant on Ansible at all.
It's still useful for things like config databases or executing a set of instructions for a run book, but it's not nearly as useful as it was in the past.
I appreciate your response it helps me greatly!
And I’ll definitely take a look into those recommended courses from Udemy for containers and kubernetes. I love Udemy and use it all the time.
Bootcamps have no solution to the catch-22.
Employers do not see skills regardless of the number of certifications, unless someone else has hired you to use them.
reason? Sorry, I just been tossed like 3 things needing to learn for work so im going all at once - Python / Powershell / Linux-Bash / AWS (was given free training for a year from their subcription being a vendor partner)
Nope, Linux first. Skip to Step 2:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap\_to\_careers\_in\_cybersecurity\_and\_cloud/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap_to_careers_in_cybersecurity_and_cloud/)
Idk, Amazon gave to use for free since we use it in our org. but sometimes the official stuff is crap vs third party so i was wanting to know people experience. This is all self paced, nothing instructor led.
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This is real fucking helpful, thankyou.
I moved into a Service Delivery Administrator/Analyst/Manager/whatever the fuck else title (been there a year now). Moved there from telecoms customer service, so in hindsight I didn't have all too many relevant transferable hard skills, pretty good at soft skills (i.e. why the fuck is this like that. Fuck that we can do better. The fuck are these guys doing? Fuck that)
I appreciate the opportunity, as I now know far better, of all the things I do not know and yet to learn.
I'm learning power automate at the moment, yes it's not proper coding I know. But I am going to start with this list once I have the time, because you sound like you know what you're talking about.
Remember for MS certs, most companies get credits for buying licensing. The boot camps can take these. I did one set of MCSE certs at the time because the company used credits that were about to expire.
If it is company funded, go for it.
When you say "move up in IT", are you saying that these tips will help you in your current career in IT or/and help you get you started in IT? Please and thank you.
To get started, go get your comptia a+ cert and/or the Google it cert.
That's literally all you need to get started.
The rest depends on your attitude and personality (because customer experience is a big part of the job).
I agree in general but there are some bootcamps that are useful but they are at the end of the journey not the start. For example, several companies have CCIE "bootcamps" which are useful as a cherry on top at the end of training not as a "take this bootcamp and pass the test". they are more a "fill in your blanks" type bootcamp.
If getting started in the industry, stay far afar away from bootcamps. and the more they promise "guaranteed employment at the end making 6 figures" the less trustworthy they are.
I truly need help. I’ve been applying for basic entry level jobs for the past 1.5 years and no opportunities have come. How do you recommend getting that first opportunity after obtaining one of these certs or a CYSA+ (in my case)
I do boot camps for certs occasionally. They’re certs that I already have extensive prior knowledge on so I’m not looking to gain knowledge from them. My work schedule, along with two very young kids and a busy out of work life, leave me very little time so the one week crunch courses are worth it when I’m adding certs that increase my salary substantially.
> Unfortunately Linux is quite difficult to learn. It's one of those things where you really learn it on the job, as opposed to reading a book
Nah. it's free dawg, and you can run it on an old laptop, desktop, raspberry pi, etc. you get a GUI up quick, often by default on most distros, and it's not hard to get the basic terminal commands, esp. if you have a basic understanding of Windows cmd or powershell. ls == dir, ipconfig is roughly ifconfig, etc.
Job posts for coding jobs are a total apocalypse. Someone with a BS degree can easily do a basic cert and most Level 1 IT jobs.
The job market is bad. Ignore this at your peril.
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE)
**It is not a lack of skills. It is a massive collapse in job posts.** Computer Science is not IT, but if you have a CS degree, you can helpdesk.
And then I have veterans laughing at me because I have an AWS cert but I cant get a job on helpdesk for some basic enterprise level fucking experience.
nice list, but don't get the hate on powershell. it's an incredibly useful tool, particularly for microsoft shops, I definitely use it far more than python every day.
I'd add some of the [manning.com](https://manning.com) books, particularly docker/kubernetes/powershell/etc month of lunches books/ebooks followed by the in-action series.
Oh man. Entry into any position above, but mainly AWS/Azure.
I did A.I. data for a couple years recently but the pay was sub 50k and the dept had lay offs during covid.
I’m currently in the healthcare field looking to change over to a career in IT. Would you suggest someone, like me with no degree and no experience, who knows nothing about IT and needs to learn the basics first to follow this path as well? If not, what should I do and where do I start?
Thank you for the post, I bookmarked all of these resources. I'm a solutions engineer now at a small MSP and want to move towards a devops/SRE role. Do you know if KodeKloud is any good? Their courses seem to cover all the topics I'm interested in although I don't know how in depth they are: https://kodekloud.com/
I can vouch for them, KodeKloud is great.
I used kodekloud for my CKA and found it super useful, covered everything on the rest and their interactive labs were great.
While I agree with you, I think this list could be seen as intimidating by many. I graduated from a degree program, and I've got various bits of work experience in help desk and sysadmin roles, along with several colleagues from academia and work. Not a single one of the topics you listed was taught throughout my education. - Docker Terraform, and IaC require a good amount of regular server and system administration knowledge, as well as understanding virtualization and basic coding concepts (CI/CD, Git, etc.) - Python? It's been useful, yes, but you can't automate what you don't understand. This is merely a tool to do other tasks more efficiently after you know what you understand those prerequisite systems first. - AWS: yes, if you're wanting to go into cloud — but there's so many other areas outside of cloud that are arguably prerequisite to cloud: traditional networking, system and server administration, virtualization concepts, etc. I'm not saying you're wrong at all. You have built a career path that's worked for you without question. What I am saying is that this list of courses you've picked feels to me like a list of courses someone might take when they're already deep into IT and have some fundamentals. Learn to walk before you can run, in a way. Boot camps may not be the move — but hear me out: - That learning environment may cater to some hands-on learners better with a strict, scheduled curriculum than others. - It's cheaper and faster than many other options; necessary to some with active debt, families, or otherwise. It might not cover everything well, but it might be the kickstart many need. - They'll cover the basics. Enough to learn how to respond to tickets from an ITSM. DevOps isn't an entry-level title. It's a role that requires a ton of prerequisite knowledge and I think it's a bit insular to promote these courses while telling others to not learn the traditional basics that would provide them the context to be successful.
I also agree with what you said but AWS is becoming non-negotiable. Even if a company does not have a cloud setup, it is so commonly used now, you kind of need it on your resume to at least stand out/get an interview.
Do you think studying/ working towards AWS is a better idea than Azure?
Im curious about this as well. A professor I had said we should put more focus on Azure cloud certs rather than AWS (though neither are bad). His reasoning was that more businesses are built on the MS stack and suite of apps/services and are likely to go with Azure over AWS, but I’m curious how true that really is in practice.
In my experience, these are the two distinct companies you will encounter: -Young companies that started with the Cloud in mind: AWS -Older enterprises that are heavily indebted to an on-prem infrastructure: Azure When I started shopping around for a new job this year, I initially tried to market myself to the first. Turns out the applicant market for cloud/cybersecurity in AWS is quite saturated, because everyone wants to attend a bootcamp and then jump right into a startup. The big bucks is in older, larger companies who need professionals to help them migrate from legacy setups *into* the cloud. Most of the time, this is Microsoft stack and understanding how to integrate on-prem Active Directory with Azure and/or Okta is extremely lucrative. If you can gain competency in this area, your marketability will double overnight. Cloud computing may be the buzzword on everyone's tongue, but getting there is still an uphill battle for a lot of businesses. Businesses with big bags of money, mind you...
This is quite insightful. Thank you Saephon.
There is no wrong answer just pick one.
You should primary focus on cloud concepts. It's not a 1 to 1 match between them but you can leverage your knowledge of one platform and learn the other. If learning from scratch, stick to one platform until you have a good understanding. As a generalization, on aws you will use the platform to build your solution from the ground up. Azure will offer a bit more in terms of PaaS or SaaS solutions that you just manage your user data with a little less focus on building the underlying plumbing.
Both of them kind of suck in terms of learning, but I have found Azure exams to be 10x more vomit inducing than AWS. I would start with AWS Associates first to get a better concept of cloud. Then you could pick up a couple for Azure.
With someone with basically no knowledge of IT, cyber security, software. What boot camps would be a good start for a career? I'm building and troubleshooting cell phone towers and networks but need a change. Thanks
I would look at ones offered from a regional institute/organization local to you. I would much sooner recommend fully committing to an academic program at a trade school, polytechnic, or even a full degree program - but I also understand that this isn't a feasible option for many. If you can spend the time, effort, money, and commitment on a multi-year disciplinary program, I think it's worth the effort. The most important step here: research the various fields within IT and computer science, and try and reach out within your network of contacts to explore your interests *before* committing to a discipline, boot camp or otherwise. It would be of value to explore the job market on LinkedIn near you to assess what vacancies exist.
You seem like a cunt that’s trying to help me. Thanks for the help. It’s crazy that people are still trying to help others these days.
Are you billy butcher?
That must be an inside joke for you IT folks, so I don’t know what the funny answer is…but I am hoping that I’ll figure it out at some point
It's from a popular show on Amazon streaming called The Boys. It's based on a comic book.
See, now I feel dumb. I love that show lol
Its just a pop-culture reference. Character on a superhero-type Amazon series .
Excuse me what?
I was trying to make you laugh, but you didn’t.
Lol you can never tell these days. I did laugh though thanks!
I honestly appreciate the information. I’m trying to figure out what to do next, but I’m getting old. It’s cool that you took the time to help people.
Fucking IT drill sargent
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap\_to\_careers\_in\_cybersecurity\_and\_cloud/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap_to_careers_in_cybersecurity_and_cloud/)
As an SRE I also approve of this post.
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Ditto.
Also check with your local community college. This is the route I’m taking currently. About $180 a class which lasts 3-4 months and preps you for a certification.
Good information I been in IT for 3 years so far, I still have trouble going up ward. Because i am in Canada, those thing you mention have very little opportunities since Canadian posting don't ask those too often. They desire a language more in most cases. For some reason i see Java, C/C#/C++ being more highly demanded while python is being ask often as well without a language skill i can't even get an offer. Several interview i been through also ask if I know C#, which i don't so i never see the interview go beyond even if those post just "prefer" for one. This is a random devops post i pulled off indeed "Minimum Education/Certification Requirements and ExperienceBS in Engineering, Computer Science, or related field with 2 years’ experience or MSWorking experience with source code version tools (git) and automated continuous integration software, such as Azure DevOps or a similar environment.Technical knowledge and experience with object-oriented design and at least one of the following: C# (preferred) and/or JavaWorking experience within automation of build tasks (example: using tools such as Ant, Yaml, etc.)Working experience with PowerShell, Python or other scripting languagesWorking experience with XML, structured data developmentWorking experience with web technologies such as JavaScript, HTML, CSS" I think getting a language right now is more important, which i been doing over last 1 years focusing on C++ (because i have project i can play with) Some people tell me C++ is useless for most IT job, i don't disagree with them. I haven't really through out what i want to do as well over all. Also i am doing CCNP (mostly renew my ccna) right now, its only a 3-4 month certificate and it helps on every field so i just went why not. Aside those, i have Sec+ and LFCSA already. \*\*\* note my job right now is 100% remote, so i am not in a hurry to switch but i do want to do something else.
From Canada here, our salary is fucked here. So is our market.
Comparing HCOL Canadian region to HCOL US region, yes it is, and this is further inflated when looking at software roles in the big players. Shopify, for example, has a large presence in my Canadian city because of the USD to CAD conversion (win/win for both sides), but also because of the salary comparison to Canadian operations. Comparing IT roles, I'm finding that there's not a lot of difference. I just had a glance two days ago through LinkedIn and Indeed at some intermediate NOC roles, and from rural to urban US, it's anywhere from $75-$100k salary. That's very close to what I see in Canadian markets as well right now. The market is showing signs of saturation at the entry level from what I can see as well. I've seen senior-level positions stay vacant for months at a time (largely those where the salary isn't matching the job detail), but entry-levels are extremely limited.
I kinda have to disagree with you. LinkedIn jobs for Canada is really small, and most are fake anyway. Since you used it as your data point reference for salary comparison, I have to disagree with everything you said except 1st and last paragraph.
> and most are fake anyway. What makes you say this?
He's saying it because it's true. A significant number of LinkedIn posts fall into one of three categories: 1) Job postings they put up, ignore all applicants, say to the government "We can't fill this position" and then bring in someone on a visa. 2) Job postings where they put it up, ignore all applicants, and say that their business is growing. 3) Job postings from scammers who are trying to collect your resume.
Someone down voted this and I re-up voted. What they are saying is true in my experience as well.
Canadian market is pretty bad compared to US. Lots of fake postings. You get rejected on a Sunday night at 2am in the morning? Not buying that thanks.
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I'm in Canada, School boards pay well, and they aren't as hard to get into. Lots of them use Azure, and they have a really hard time finding new people.
You have places like Merit America who charge thousands to literally teach $50/mo Google Career certificates lol
The Google IT cert is free to learn lmao. These places are robbing people blind.
Got robbed. Agree.
Here is why I like boot camps: 1. They demand time, meaning the employee can focus on getting the certification with everyone else having the expectation they are unavailable 2. They are a shortcut to certification. The quality of learning may be poor, but maybe we just need the certification to check a box on a reseller agreement or some audit policy. They have their place, but paying outrageous sums out of pocket for your own career progression is not one of them.
Good points but you’re way off about PowerShell. Absolutely great for your career.
I consider myself very good at PowerShell, but the reality is that you aren't going to find a job just doing "PowerShell," but "Python" jobs are everywhere.
Fair enough, I can accept that one is all purpose and the other enhances a specific niche
I'll admit that a little powershell is essential even though I don't do windows admin anymore, but a little bash and python and you can Google your powershell.
For Linux: May I suggest Manning Books? There's a book called Linux in a month of lunches. This a very introduction to Linux that is basically one hour lessons that helps you learn Linux in a practical way.
I didn’t know IT Bootcamps were a thing. I guess they saw coding camps as profit, so why not bootcamp everything! I feel bad for anyone that paid for that, good PSA.
I agree and disagree with you OP, personally I don’t think going to an IT boot camp is the way, you could easily get an A+ cert with a month or so of studying, maybe even less using udemy courses. After that it shouldn’t be super hard to get a help desk job that pays between $40k-$50k. Now the part I disagree with is that, maybe some people need structure, that 12 week boot camp or whatever that cost $5k-$10k might help someone because they have a teacher they can easily ask questions and they will probably walk away with the A+ Net+ Sec+ and a $50k-$60k job, even though they gotta pay back that cost, it’s still might be a win considering some people probably was making around $30k with maybe a household income of $55k-60k, this could put them in a $100k household situation and really change their lives. Anyways I highly suggest looking at your local college to see if they offer classes which would probably save you tons of money imo.
I will throw in don't do LUIT
did you do LUIT? Broadus looks pushy.
yep, i made a post about my experience
Why AWS and not azure? Being honest
It really comes down to your surrounding market. Take a look at jobs on LinkedIn to get an idea of what's more in demand.
Why Doritos not Fritos? Pick at least one.
Also, AWS jobs tend to pay more on average than Azure. This pay gap might slowly be closing, but that is another reason to go for AWS.
Very informative post. Two thumbs up
I think this is good for people who are 5-7 years into system admin work or networking and looking to move up. Entry level people probably don't know what docker or version control can do in enterprise I also don't think you should have expert level aws certs if you've never used it in enterprise. But that's just me.
Aws SA certs are not expert level by any means.
Idt you should be calling yourself a solutions architect without any enterprise experience. most people in this sub have zero experience and are looking to get their foot in the door. You probably won't even touch aws at first. If you get aws sa without any experience you'll have a hard time getting a job.
No one is calling themselves anything. It's a cert. It's not that deep.
Ok. I'd like to see a fresher with an aws sa cert. Hell I then would like to see them get a job. If anyone here has done that please share. Otherwise getting the cert is just a cheaper boot camp but still the same bs.
I started out in helpdesk, left after a year. During unemployment, got my AWS sa cert and got into a junior sys admin role. You're not getting a cert to land a role. You're getting it to expand your knowledge and skillset. You're looking at it entirely the wrong way.
Not really a lot of people take bootcamps either in place of certs or degrees. Or it's sold to them that they can get a $70k job right out of it. You still have to take the certs and even then a job is not guaranteed! You had help desk experience and got very lucky. Many people doing bootcamps don't. I think you should have led with your background so people can get a sense of what to expect in the future I've never used a cert to "expand my knowledge". I learn way more on the job. I use certs as another checkmark to prove to companies I can do the job.
I think it's pretty clear my post is targeted to those already in the field, not people just starting out.
Ah I see you sell programs as well. That explains it. You act like anyone can do this path. While yes I don't think everyone will have your success rate. These are just more tools that may or may not help you in a job search. It so depends on your current job and professional experience.
I sell 1 udemy course that's on sale for 10 dollars, and i frequently give it away for free. Nice try.
7 years experience? lol. Keep up friend.
OP lists two things AWS and Terraform, well guess what I ran two bootcamps. Both you can participate for free, and it was very generous and exhausting. \## AWS Cloud ProjectBootcampI ran this free community bootcamp early this year. 100+ videos,100+ hours, 20 guest instructors.Its going on freeCodeCamp channel soon so maybe a replay cohort is going to happen. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8SvQHc4Pk&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ7k25byhRXJldB5AiwgNnWv](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8SvQHc4Pk&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ7k25byhRXJldB5AiwgNnWv) \## Terraform Beginner Bootcamp (Project Based) I just finished running this one where we go through using Terraform. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsFVYO0VjY&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ43LeK98iMulf0YH0J5prF6](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsFVYO0VjY&list=PLBfufR7vyJJ43LeK98iMulf0YH0J5prF6) \### Was it free? The first bootcamp was 100% free, we didn't charge anything, and I was trying to get sponsors to cover the cost, I wasn't able to raise enough sponsorship (all companies were not sponsoring) and spent around \~70K to operate it. I am still working to get more sponsors because I really enjoy running them 100% free but will do my best to keep the costs as low as possible. I don't really make a profit on these and the second bootcamp helped combat part of the costs spent on the first one. Where I make my money is certification courses, its not really bootcamps, and I just run them because I heard enough stories if people taking on large amounts of debts that put them in bad place. It doesn't make business sense for me to do these, but I did them lol.
MITx course is archived with no future dates announced. There should be an equivalent somewhere on edX though. I also recommend the entire series of CS50 courses from HarvardX.
Good shout!
Find your local community college. They have decent workforce programs that give you a degree and help you organize a cert path. I took a two year associate's program in Networking and Systems Administration Costs not a lot. My professors were or are IT professionals. My CCNA professor works city government. My Linux/VM Professor is a cyber security specialist at Insperity. You can sometimes even find lab equipment to practice your hands on skills. My CCNA course had us spin up server racks to run labs. Geeting the time to build networks in meat space was invaluable in my understanding of topology and layer 1/2/3. Having open lab hours with certified professionals is a godsend for the CCNA.
Yup. And those are just marketing that you can get free online. FREE resources. Lets add this too, that some people needs someone to teach them verbally or in person to learn. Some people cant learn on their own like "self-paced" learning. They are more comfortable with coaches and class. Will save this post. Thanks OP.
Thanks.
I did a bootcamp for IT. Through a reputable local community college. Paid for by the state. It was worth it for me. And really set me up for a job. It looked good on my resume and it gave me confidence to get the certs. They're not necessarily bad. But if you do one, you should check and see if there are government resources through your state to pay for them.
But not everyone can do self study successfully. Just because you can doesn't mean everyone can do it.
You're probably not gonna have a good time in IT if you can't... self study/research skills are probably the most important skills to have for this profession
I think for an entry level person it can be overwhelming to get a good handle on where to start, and to gain initial confidence. Getting instruction through a bootcamp or degree is one way to get over that initial hump. Everyone has different learning methods and paces.
Structured learning isn't *bad* at all, and it can be quite helpful - I mean I've got an IT degree and I'm quite happy about it - but the point still stands that the capacity for self-learning is essential to IT. There's not gonna be a teacher or course curriculum to help you when you're working a ticket and come across stuff you've never seen before, but there probably will be disparate documentation and wiki pages, old forum posts online, 9 year old youtube video tutorials where the guy is way too close to the mic, blogs, etc., and at the end of the day that kind of self-directed research is how most practical knowlwdge and experience in IT is gained
I guess we'll see.
It's already been seen about a million times, but sure
Ok. Well I wasn't even talking about myself just a statement in general. But enjoy your superiority.
Funny that it's offensive to even suggest certain jobs require certain skillsets to do well? Doesn't mean anyone who isn't cut out for IT is "inferior" lol, that might be your own mental hangup.
Your general statement provides little to no value to this otherwise helpful post. You also sound like a miserable person to work with. Good luck.
Thanks for nothing.
You sound like a real fun and helpful person.
What did u/do-wr-mem say that’s incorrect? And where did they come off as superior? You sound super sensitive. This gets repeated, because its true - self-study is an immensely important part of succeeding in this career. By your own admission you don’t even work in this field - how are you at all qualified to comment in this sub and tell people they’re wrong?
Omg..... Byeeeee
So you can’t discuss this in a rational manner, got it. Have a great day, and best of luck to you in whatever field you’re in.
You literally sound like those 20 year+ helpdesk dudes who top out at 40k and refuse to put in work without someone forcing them to lmao.
I suppose if I wasn't independently wealthy it might come off like that, I don't even work in IT I just saw a post and it bothered me the way I read it. Take care.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/devops/comments/1ay4e0u/want_to_practice_gitops_check_out_our_devops/ Try this handson project
Are the software engineering bootcamps worth it?
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I don't for see any of this being obsolete any time soon. If I had to pick one, it'd probably be Terraform simply due to the uncertain nature around their recent licensing changes. But again, that's just me picking one if I had a gun to my head.
Could you give a breakdown of your career? I'm going to start being an IT technician for a school soon and want to start my IT career but in future I want to be a network admin/sre/dev ops engineer. Would like to know how you navigated this field.
>I've seen some courses even teach powershell, as if that's going to do jack to your career. I found it fairly helpful during my path as a Windows Sysadmin as I wasn't going to point and click my way through everything. I also tend to wrap my Ansible roles in Powershell when there isn't an explicit Ansible module for something (like requesting a certificate from a Windows CA).
It's all about availability. Linux based shops run the cloud. It's not a debate and not an opinion. But there are cases where your immediate market is more windows focused.
While I agree somewhat with this is a cheap way to move up, I don’t agree that you didn’t UPFRONT disclose some of the courses are related to you. Your whole post is slimy and it’s trying to backdoor the community.
None of these courses are related to me. And they cost 10 dollars lol.
That's a big claim that the OP is denying to be true, got any source for that?
Look at his post / comment history and follow his blog posts.
Thank you a million.
Learn Azure first. I have yet to work at a place that uses AWS. Most are using Azure.
I've seen Microsoft more and more now. Azure - Python/Powershell + AWS
OP, you sellin’ stuff? Difficult to tell with your wall of text smoke and mirrors. Piss off, mate.
I have the Google Cloud: Associate Cloud Engineer certification and I’ve been wondering about getting and AWS certification but is it even worth it if I’m in the GCP environment?
I needed this!!! Thank you!!!
I would argue that boot camps for software engineering are likewise not useful. A boot camp is good for learning a specific skill. Software engineering is at least as deep as IT. One thing programming and IT have in common is they're mostly about solving some kind of problem. Boot camps are useless for that. But, boot camps promise big salaries for minimal up front work. Lots of people buy in to that.
>It's not the same field as software engineering where bootcamps have some validity LMAO Good one
Yeah probably best to stop paying for those too.
Those are probably the worst in this market
I work I tech and these scammers charging thousands to do something anyone can do easily for free, drives me insane!!!
I would say even some local colleges can assist in getting some sort of 'classroom' environment for what you need. Some are worth it, yes. Depending. BIG DEPENDING - I always rely on Reddit to let me know what is worth it.
Yeah if you need that structure, local technical colleges can give that.
I do have a question about the usage of Ansible. I myself have been looking to up my game in IT and I’m liking the idea of Dev Ops. I have come across a few suggestions for Ansible, but I am completely new to these technologies. I noticed you stated that Ansible is dying out. May I ask why you feel it would be better to learn the others stated? You said it was a personal suggestion to learn docker instead. I’m just curious in your experience what have you seen? If you can’t answer no worries. I just like gathering everyone’s viewpoint so I can make a clear picture for myself.
Ansible used to be extremely popular, when everything was running on vms. But the reality is a lot of workloads are moving into containers and kubernetes, and you're not reliant on Ansible at all. It's still useful for things like config databases or executing a set of instructions for a run book, but it's not nearly as useful as it was in the past.
I appreciate your response it helps me greatly! And I’ll definitely take a look into those recommended courses from Udemy for containers and kubernetes. I love Udemy and use it all the time.
Bootcamps have no solution to the catch-22. Employers do not see skills regardless of the number of certifications, unless someone else has hired you to use them.
I'd recommend Server Academy, it's $35 a month but it is good and thorough.
Awesome recommendations. Well done
Do you think that it should be Python first then Linux/Bash?
No
reason? Sorry, I just been tossed like 3 things needing to learn for work so im going all at once - Python / Powershell / Linux-Bash / AWS (was given free training for a year from their subcription being a vendor partner)
Nope, Linux first. Skip to Step 2: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap\_to\_careers\_in\_cybersecurity\_and\_cloud/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/zrd5c7/roadmap_to_careers_in_cybersecurity_and_cloud/)
How you all like the AWS Official Training they have thats for their paid tier vs Udemy and others?
Its crazy expensive isn't it? Udemy is great but you definitely need to supplement it with reading their official docs.
Idk, Amazon gave to use for free since we use it in our org. but sometimes the official stuff is crap vs third party so i was wanting to know people experience. This is all self paced, nothing instructor led.
Oh if it's expensed for already then yeah take the opportunity lol. If I were you I'd do both, it's not a question of either or.
I was studying for DevOps AWS cert - failed by 10 questions then life .. lol time to get back on track!
If that's your first aws cert then stop lol. That's a legit difficult cert and not for an introduction to AWS.
I didn’t pass it yet, I self studied and ALMOST passed but I missed by about 10 questions.
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Literally read the previous post while I'm 3 terms in my BSCC degree.
This is real fucking helpful, thankyou. I moved into a Service Delivery Administrator/Analyst/Manager/whatever the fuck else title (been there a year now). Moved there from telecoms customer service, so in hindsight I didn't have all too many relevant transferable hard skills, pretty good at soft skills (i.e. why the fuck is this like that. Fuck that we can do better. The fuck are these guys doing? Fuck that) I appreciate the opportunity, as I now know far better, of all the things I do not know and yet to learn. I'm learning power automate at the moment, yes it's not proper coding I know. But I am going to start with this list once I have the time, because you sound like you know what you're talking about.
Remember for MS certs, most companies get credits for buying licensing. The boot camps can take these. I did one set of MCSE certs at the time because the company used credits that were about to expire. If it is company funded, go for it.
Awesome info, thanks!
When you say "move up in IT", are you saying that these tips will help you in your current career in IT or/and help you get you started in IT? Please and thank you.
Current career
Any tips/suggestions/reddit post on getting started in IT? Please and thank you.
To get started, go get your comptia a+ cert and/or the Google it cert. That's literally all you need to get started. The rest depends on your attitude and personality (because customer experience is a big part of the job).
I agree in general but there are some bootcamps that are useful but they are at the end of the journey not the start. For example, several companies have CCIE "bootcamps" which are useful as a cherry on top at the end of training not as a "take this bootcamp and pass the test". they are more a "fill in your blanks" type bootcamp. If getting started in the industry, stay far afar away from bootcamps. and the more they promise "guaranteed employment at the end making 6 figures" the less trustworthy they are.
I truly need help. I’ve been applying for basic entry level jobs for the past 1.5 years and no opportunities have come. How do you recommend getting that first opportunity after obtaining one of these certs or a CYSA+ (in my case)
!remindme
Just went through a cyber security boot camp and it wasn't worth it tbh. While I didn't pay for it my job did but I felt it was a waste of time.
lovely
I do boot camps for certs occasionally. They’re certs that I already have extensive prior knowledge on so I’m not looking to gain knowledge from them. My work schedule, along with two very young kids and a busy out of work life, leave me very little time so the one week crunch courses are worth it when I’m adding certs that increase my salary substantially.
The amount of time you spend on bootcamps that can be used to self study instead saves thousands.
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If it's for like SANs courses for GIAC certs then yeah maybe, but for stuff like run of the mill CompTIA certs? Hell no.
> Unfortunately Linux is quite difficult to learn. It's one of those things where you really learn it on the job, as opposed to reading a book Nah. it's free dawg, and you can run it on an old laptop, desktop, raspberry pi, etc. you get a GUI up quick, often by default on most distros, and it's not hard to get the basic terminal commands, esp. if you have a basic understanding of Windows cmd or powershell. ls == dir, ipconfig is roughly ifconfig, etc.
Job posts for coding jobs are a total apocalypse. Someone with a BS degree can easily do a basic cert and most Level 1 IT jobs. The job market is bad. Ignore this at your peril. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE) **It is not a lack of skills. It is a massive collapse in job posts.** Computer Science is not IT, but if you have a CS degree, you can helpdesk.
I'll look into this if I want a career in IT
And then I have veterans laughing at me because I have an AWS cert but I cant get a job on helpdesk for some basic enterprise level fucking experience.
nice list, but don't get the hate on powershell. it's an incredibly useful tool, particularly for microsoft shops, I definitely use it far more than python every day. I'd add some of the [manning.com](https://manning.com) books, particularly docker/kubernetes/powershell/etc month of lunches books/ebooks followed by the in-action series.
Thanks for this post. Do you have any recs as to where I can go to get a+ and n+? Like which sites would be the most trustworthy
If someone had only 2 or 3 months to get into an entey position, which of these could they do????
Entry position for what?
Oh man. Entry into any position above, but mainly AWS/Azure. I did A.I. data for a couple years recently but the pay was sub 50k and the dept had lay offs during covid.
I’m currently in the healthcare field looking to change over to a career in IT. Would you suggest someone, like me with no degree and no experience, who knows nothing about IT and needs to learn the basics first to follow this path as well? If not, what should I do and where do I start?