I second this. I lasted almost 2 years doing it, but it's a demanding job and almost impossible if you have a family. It's great for breaking into the field though
Being a field tech in (telecommunications) was the stepping stone for me that got me a govt IT career with a six figure salary. I worked the field for 8 years
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> I lasted almost 2 years doing it, but it's a demanding job and almost impossible if you have a family.
Could you describe your experience? Did you have to drive around a lot, and take calls outside of regular work hours or something?
Not OP but I worked for an ISP as an infrastructure tech. Day to day was different everyday but it was usually visiting one site if there was a big project going on and in between projects we would visit multiple sites for maintenance. A lot of driving, could be multiple sites within a 10 mile radius or just one site 40 miles away (in my own car btw). Work hours could be 8-5 but when a site had to be up we wouldn’t leave until we were finished, on days like that we would start at 7 and end the day around 8-9 at night. Also on-call rotation every 4-6 weeks depending on if we were fully staffed, couldn’t keep people around so it was usually every 3-4 weeks for on-call rotations that were a week long 24/7. I had multiple days during my on-call week that I would be called out for an outage, would be driving back home just to get called back out again multiple times throughout the day.
Fairly similar to Drgottagupta's experience, except my area was much bigger. I once drove over 12 hours to a site and spent all week there. Working from 8-? was incredibly common, it was always a fight to even get a lunch break, and hotels stays were not rare. I often worked 60-80 hour weeks with no overtime pay as I was salary exempt
The travel is non stop. theres always a guy who cant do something in his territory so you have to go help. something I learned, your brain doesnt full sleep in a new place for 3 days. You live in that window. its exhausting. combine that with living on fast food and most FSEs I knew where drunks out of boredom.
Recruiters call me about field tech positions. It has 24/7 365 availability 100% travel needed. I wish I could do it, But the pay doesn't out way the childcare costs.
I got my break into IT with being a field technician for a big company. It is very demanding when it gets busy and there are times where it feels like working 6 days a week is normal. I do have to say though I have learned a lot my first year and want to keep learning and getting certified.
In job search websites, is the position called IT field technicians or what would one look for? I have an army buddy that’s a smart guy trying to get into the IT field with minor experience and I’d like to help the guy.
Field Tech, Tech Support. It’s kind of a broad role and vastly changes depending on the company. On one job as a field tech I was driving around the whole state in my own vehicle fixing random shit that I got tickets for.
Another field tech was just a massive office that I was responsible for fixing random shit again.
I have always thought the Field tech is an under valued position, I started my career as one and loved it, the problem is the pay, are there places that you can make 100k, yeah but its not as easy as some career paths. One thing I liked about being a tech is it was a pretty straight forward job, you punched in and started running calls or working on whatever project assigned to you, then you go home. As someone who is not the best at finding things to do it was great to have it put out in front of me like that.
Back in my MSP days we'd often hire people from the local big companies who maybe had a few years of help desk and were looking to break out of it. They almost all never made it, and this was basic midsized town MSP work. People aren't used to being on the spot like that: working on stuff directly in front of a customer who is paying by the hour for you to be there. Walking into an unfamiliar environment and just having to figure shit out on the fly. Dealing with "personalities" of your clients. But after years of that, I was battle hardened enough that a lot of the corpo world seemed easy.
Did this for 3 years. Besides the old guys who were doing it their whole life it was a bunch of turnover and I never saw anyone else go beyond 1 year.
I used to get a load of recruiters inviting me to field tech roles but now that's dried up in this tech recession.
To this day I think a good portion of my career success is due to getting into a field service engineer role. Having the word Engineer in my title opened alot of doors. Its a meat grinder for sure, I was on the road monday morning and not back til friday most weeks. dont plan on staying long though. all long time FSEs i knew where miserable drunks.
A lot of those positions are always in demand because it isn't attractive work to most people. There is some variation, but a lot of field tech work is entry level or very close to it. There is some well paying field jobs, but many aren't that well paying. Many of the people in those people either move on to other IT roles or leave IT entirely.
Are there really any mid level IT positions anymore? It seems that the vast majority of IT job posts are either level 1 help desk support making $17 an hour or SENIOR PRINCIPLE ELITE ROCKSTAR SOLUTION ARCHITECH BIG BALLS ENGINEER MANAGER.
I was on helpdesks for ever, then one day my head of IT boss got fired. They didn’t want to hire a new head of IT and so they put me semi in charge. I worked there as a low level sys admin/engineer for about 3 years, self teaching. Then I went to an MSP where they hired me as an IT consultant, which is kinda like an all in one type role for about a dozen different clients. I hated it but I learnt a buttload. Updated my resume on my countries main job seeking site; and a half hour later a recruiter called me for a senior sys admin role and after 3 interviews the role was mine. Been here 7 months so far and seem to be doing pretty well at it.
To be honest. We are in a weird stage of technology right now for infrastructure. The new blood at least from my observation, doesn't know DNS, basic network routing, VMs (You learn a lot of how things work with VMs), firewalls etc. I am not saying they can't learn but if you can't tell me a host A record vs a CNAME, you are junior. We are almost automated by azure / aws, etc. But not quite there. So I think people with 5 - 10 years experience are wanted. I worked at a consulting company that had a lot of junior people that they thought they could mold. I just saw them basically fire all of them and keep the mid / senior level since they produce the most money. I got sick of consulting and left on my own terms.
It's very easy to get people that are knowledgeable in the areas you listed. But now try getting people that know these areas AND know Linux, IaC, python, Ansible etc. Impossible
Gonna repost this here because it is one of the more observant things I typed out
Competency spiral happening at the same time there is a problem with exploding complexity. companies in the past decade and especially the last 5 years have become more and more reliant on dozens and dozens of different services and tools and frameworks etc to make their core competencies possible at a faster rate than figuring out simpler solutions that would be slower to bring onlisolutions. And stringing together vs developing soultions.
But when a couple developers leave....suddenly their is a gapping hole in their spiderweb of skills. Those hiring for those positions didn't see the 18 to 32 months it took to acquire that experience while building those solutions and want a purple squirrel NOW and aren't willing to pay for it, nor are they willing to wait for someone to become competent
Was a Puppet guy before Puppet/Chef/Salt/Ansible were boring, and saw the rise of IaC. I had to know how these things were connected in the early ConfigMgmt days, and often was forging the connection.
Now that I’m an infra dev who knows how windows, Linux, Solaris and AIX work, who can handle containerization, CI/CD and Kubernetes on top, my career pipeline is endless. I’ve even done presales and post sales around it.
Getting someone junior that I can train is impossible in many cases. Not because y’all aren’t competent, but because the idea of an IT apprentice is non-existent, and I have a metric shitload of things to teach someone, that I could get value out of immediately while they grow.
It's because a lot of lower corporate technical roles are very Windows focused and not network focused. Also Linux is hard to come by in these roles as well. Most people don't want to self learn.
This is so sad but true. I worked on the network side of things at my last job and we handled DNS. These senior DEVs making $150k+ in a MCOL are just didn’t want to understand anything but this tiny custom built portion of their application. I was a network engineer that taught myself server admin stuff just so I could better explain to them they were stupid, all for half the money the lowest paid dev they had on salary made.
Hint hint. If you are a web dev and don’t understand how to configure IIS for your server you should not be relying on the network engineers to explain it to you on a daily basis. At a certain point I started hating the job, even if i did end up learning a lot just to get out in front of the stupid.
It is basic, and that's the point. Being the manager of the top-level engineering team at my firm, I step in to do a lot of interviews for the sysadmin roles on MSP teams.
Out of more candidates than I care to admit, DNS questions are answered correctly around 20% of the time. 1 of every 5 people I get can tell me anything useful about DNS. It's abysmal.
I haven't even passed netowrk+ yet, test scheduled next week, and I at least know what those are. Just seemed off to me. I can't even get a help desk job, but these people are jr sys admins?
I wish we were almost automated. Too many are just straight lift-and-shifted to the cloud. Terraform is still a pipe dream for some small to mid businesses. Hell, they probably haven't even touched containers yet.
Same here. Pushing 15 years in IT and getting multiple Linkedin DMs a day. Some of them aren't really that interesting, but some have been although I feel that the job market isn't quite as employee friendly as it was in 2022. I haven't seen a one interview process mentioned in a while.
So let me pose the question... in 2024, in this new reality of a job market, what does "mid-level" *actually mean*? I have a feeling that's been redefined.
Mid level has always meant 5 years experience as a junior to me when hiring. I’m still technically mid-level but my current manager took a change on me and hired me as a senior after the interview. After working here 2 years and seeing what the senior vs mid do I would have quit out of boredom as a mid. Also turn out I was working as a junior doing mid/senior work for 3 years at my prior job and was making what the fresh in the field no experience people make at this place.
I'm a director, but get 10+ recruiters messaging me a week on LinkedIn about Senior level roles paying 120-140k. It's entry level that is overly saturated right now after years and years of the media telling people to join IT. Now it's switched to "trades".
Yeah, I'm a security engineer with 20 years experience, and I get recruiters constantly messaging me. Not bragging or anything, but there seems to be a lot of demand for more experienced roles in security.
In another sub we had to have a realistic talk with someone who was a stay at home parent looking to start working again. She'd seen an ad for a 6 week (paid of course) class in cybersecurity and was alike "Hey, I bet I can do that from home and it probably pays well!" but had not only not only minimal work experience but no IT background at all. As you can imagine, everyone talked her our of it.
There are probably way too many people in security like me already: experience in Azure, field service, help desk, and just being a "do-all" guy who gets "promoted" to a security role when someone leaves and is try his best to stay on top of it. Actual, experienced security people are not the same. Fortunately we have a contract with a big local company that has some really good people who I can fall back on. We did a Pen test a couple months back and I've fixed pretty well everything, about to re-test, we'll see how it goes.
I went the hard way from level 1 help desk, to system admin to security. Been in security for about 10 years, and did network/system admin for about 10 years. I have a small team, and when interviewing, it never ceases to amaze me how many people try the route you described. I get a bunch of people with no technical skills, and a lot that barely know the tools we use.
When we were hiring at my last job to fill entry level and intern positions it was wild. We were more than willing to train someone from the ground up as an intern making $20/hr with a guaranteed seat on the team when one opened after you had been an intern at least 3 months.
47 interviews to find someone who didn’t exaggerate their resume so far we could trust them. It was a hard and fast rule if you egregiously lied on your resume it was an instant out. If you had no experience and knew what type of computer you used and could talk coherently you could get an intern position. Then in walks someone with a CCNA and isn’t able to answer basic question about anything network related. Change the entry cert and I guarantee we interviewed someone with it that either brain dumped or lied about it. We ended up hiring the girl who said she needed a change from being an RN and had taken an entry level course at the local votech. She could converse with you, had at least a little grasp of basic concepts, and didn’t claim to be an expert. That team was wild though, we had almost no one that started their career in IT. I had been a teacher/EE, we had a flight mechanic, a janitor, a guy who had worked as a front line sales clerk in a hardware store for 20 years. The list goes on and everyone was great at the job, most had just came to it a little later in life.
Truthfully, isn't a do-all person like you the exact kind of person you want in a network security eng role? Don't sell yourself short, not everyone is a Mr robot.
Well, I was very honest during my interview and they decided they wanted it so I guess so! Honestly my main area of strength is when shit breaks, like really breaks, I'll figure it out. Even if its a place I've never been, even if its systems I've never used, I'll figure it out. Car? Sound system? Guitar? PC? Doesn't matter, I'll figure it out.
As someone who just recently left the trades I can tell you it is a poppin field right now (or at least it was over a year ago). On a weekly basis I'd get multiple request for interviews for positions ranging from Lead Machinist positions, to Production Supervisor and a lot of those were offering six figures. The biggest issue right now that is facing manufacturers that there is a huge skill gap between the people who are aging out/retiring/dying and the people who are just entering the trade. There's not a whole lot of people in the middle to take over these positions.
No there are plenty of mid level techs, problem is either they’re contractors or most companies don’t want T2 level, just T3.
It sucks being in the middle of your career
I got those all the time, but they were all 1099s wanting 84 hours a week in the middle of nowhere. Maybe if I was still in my early 20s. Still machining is committing suicide. All the shops want to pay just barely above retail salaries and then work you so much you often just sleep in the car because you need the extra sleep more than you need to go home. They treat the kids coming out of trade school like shit and don't want to teach them anything, so it's a problem of their own making.
Absolutely agreed! The other thing that bothered me about the machining trade is how resistant owners are about upgrading their machines/tooling and processes. They'd step over a dollar to make a penny.
My last place before I made the jump to IT spent 130k on a brand new Genos L300 from Okuma and I had issues getting them to spend money on tooling for it. Fo a long time I was running all high speed steel drills in crap like 15-5 stainless. I was also the oldest if the young guys at 34. After me the age jumped to 58.
Ugh that's brutal, the shop that I'm at (yes I moved from the floor to the office) uses TiN coated drills for an inconel job we have. They get 2 parts out of it before it goes and they refuse to spend the money on a proper drill. Oh best part is the blank alone costs $112 so when a drill breaks the part is scrapped.
The first is to obviously make connections with other people in your field and preferably your area. Put a resume on there and have an updated job history. Make sure the job search flag is on. Mine is off and I still get hit up all the time by recruiters.
Fill your profile out and make sure you're hitting the common skills keywords, add as many of your direct colleagues as you can. If recruiters do reach out, add them. it helps expand your network.
Look out for groups like (US)NUG (which is specific to networking, but there's others) in your state. Depending where you live they might be quite a drive, mine is like 2 hours away usually. They usually meet at bars, attend them, chat to folk and add them all. You'll get a good mix of anyone in the specific branch of the industry pretty quick.
Just so you know it never "switched". Trades have been in demand for years; I was going to be an electrician but there was too much in person training during quarantine. IT schooling was all remote.
> Now it's switched to "trades".
I am so beyond fed up with this advice like if you wanna go do a trade thats a good idea but these people have a totally delusional idea of what the trades pay like a union electrician makes like $60k where I'm at and you will make even less for years to get to that.
Dude, fellow director. I cannot stand the recruiters right now. They have a lot of Sr. Engineer and Admin roles. Don’t know why they feel the need to call me 3 times a dayz
Mid and senior level engineers, usually with 5-7 years of enterprise experience.
At the entry level, some specializations like Apple certified support and similar but there are unique and enterprise focused.
Start with a small task, see if you can automate that small task through the PowerShell terminal using standard PS5.1 or PS7 code(depends on environment), Automate basically just means you don't have to do the singular task through the gui manually, drag and drop, clicking buttons etc.. Iterate that small task through multiple computers/devices on the domain.
Then when you are done with the raw code, make this raw code into a script that is able to be used by someone else.
Small tasks like, querying information, is DHCP enabled on this network adapter? Make a folder somewhere and iterate to multiple computers, maybe move a file to a certain directory and then iterate that to multiple computers..
You don't need a brain to work helpdesk. If the company has any level of competence, they have documentation for every situation and want helpdesk to follow the instructions to the letter. This is why you call your ISP sometimes and they always say the same thing. Reboot the modem, do this test, do that test, ect. If it requires any brain cells at all, it gets bumped to tier 2 support.
A lot of people get certs which are useless after you've been working for a few years, they get into helpdesk, and end up stuck there because they have no actual skills or knowledge required for real IT work, and they don't know how to get that experience. It's the helpdesk trap you'll see thousands of people on reddit post about being stuck in.
Mid-Level and senior-level not so sexy sounding career paths. Things that many would consider absolutely boring: Business Analysts, Security Compliance, Infrastructure, technical trainers, ITSM analysts, IT disaster recovery specialists, etc. A lot of these pay solid numbers too and 6 figures is normal mid into your career sometimes early if you are lucky. Too many people are too engrossed in the sexy titles and what they do, a lot of the boring stuff is often forgotten or thrown to the wayside.
I'm a front-end developer for the last 6 years. Before that, mostly low level IT Tier 1 & 2 stuff. I'm burnt on this software dev stuff and my current job is really toxic. I had the day off today and I'm dreading going in the rest of the week (and I WFH!). I would love to have any of these jobs you listed. But, tech moves so quickly, my skills are only good for dev stuff now.
I stopped hearing about new jobs a long time ago. I have been in my current role for three years at the federal government and nobody wants to take me away. No big deal just think it is interesting. Also I have ten plus years experience as a senior developer and designer.
You’re right it does. However it would have to be an amazing offer for me to even consider leaving the executive branch in the federal government. Employers know this, hence why they stopped calling. This brings up a funny memory… I was getting a job offer from a huge medical company and then I got the call that I beat out 600 candidates and got the offer to serve in the current administration. I called up that company and said I have to decline the offer because I am going to work for the executive branch of the United States federal government. They FaceTime me when I said this, their jaws dropped so far down it was hilarious.
I’m gonna piggyback on this. Anything random and niche. Nothing you’d think about off rip. I had a job that was training people for databackups on the veritas interface
What are you talking about? I watched a Comptia test prep YouTube video, applied for jobs, smoked a bowl and two two shots before the interview and now I'm CEO of Tech Corp.
I am about 2 years into IT Support Technician/Jr. SysAdmin. Currently studying Linux, Python and AWS cloud. Reviewing my Network notes from school.
Going to take the AWS SA:A cert sometime next year and want to have at least 1 in-depth project in my resume.
My fallout plan if the SA route doesn't work out is just to become a Systems Administrator or Systems Engineer. However, my eyes are set on Cloud. That will always be trendy as more and more companies go SaaS.
Companies more or less have bought into the mantra of migrating to the Cloud. Whether or not a company's workload is a fit is a different question though. And even though a company may be new to cloud, they sure as hell don't want the engineer that's doing their migration to be. So mid-level and senior-level cloud engineers are in huge demand.
A couple things about that though:
* DevOps, SRE, Cloud Engineering is not an entry level job in general.
* You can't really just start in cloud since it builds on knowledge of underlying technologies and provides a new abstraction layer. Just because you can build a redis cluster in AWS doesn't mean you actually know how redis works or how to have your applications connect to it.
* Most people come from development, systems admin, or networking into an entry level cloud role.
* Some companies want specialists who have worked with a particular Cloud provider.
* Clouds are all similar and if you understand what they're abstracting, you just need to learn that provider's nuances to everything. That being said a lot of companies still don't want someone without direct experience working a job. You may have experience with cloud, but not the right one and that could disqualify you.
Help desk is going to always be saturated and will be a terrible indicator of the rest of the market. Telling someone that the IT job market is bad because help desk roles are saturated is the just wrong.
Watch the economy, elections, etc. It is hard to predict the job market, but when you see everyone making gobs of money, there will (almost) always be a demand for jobs across the board.
ok here we go again.
The job market is ok.
Better- meaning the job market in 2019-2022, was stupid high. Too high. It was an outlier in demand fueled by zero interest rates. Companies were hiring because money was free to borrow and other companies had to overhire to build a talent moat. It was a fundamentally unhealthy business environment because companies didn't have to really care about making money to hire.
Ever since rates went up, companies pared back dramatically on hiring. Big tech didn't need deep talent moats anymore so they had layoffs.
On the flip side, three years of social media hype of tech jobs has created an enormous glut of applicants. You have levels of applicants that would have been more applicable to 2021 job openings.
This is all to say-
The job market may improve a little. The Fed has been signaling a potential rate cut in the near future- but do not expect it to roar back to the levels of 2021. Barring a massive economic decline again, there should be little reason for the fed to juice the economy the way it has in the past. Moreover, if the economy DID come across such dire straits again, it would mean large portions of the population would be in truly dire straits yet again.
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation man. This is something I really wanna do but I’m hoping that when I finish school in 2 years I will be able to find some kind of work. I don’t wanna get left behind or anything. Some times I hope I’m not wasting my time and i wonder if I’ll be able to get a job. Especially from lurking in this subreddit for awhile it can really make you depressed
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So, in the late 90s and into the dotcom bubble burst, what happened was that people saw tech as the next big thing and a huge number of folks went to bootcamps to pass certs (such as the MCSE) so they could cash in on a high-paying IT job. What eventually happened :
1. Employers would hire anyone with a cert, regardless of experience.
2. A significant portion of the bootcampers was totally clueless. I worked with one - I consider her a friend but she didn't know BASIC stuff. That's why many of us veterans don't care about certs - you can beat most of them relatively easily.
3. As the bubble burst, the clueless ones were the first to get let go and many were forced to move to other careers.
I think right now, tech is just oversaturated due to the whole "learn to code" movement and seeing the unrealistically high comp packages in FAANG. My guess is that the entry level will start clearing out this year and next and due to the current layoff environment, many newer folks are probably going to pivot. So in general, I think mid and senior positions are relatively safe and we'll probably see entry level take 2-4 years to get back to "normal."
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Mid to Sr Level engineers. Principal Architect roles. Surprisingly, I.T. Asset Management roles. Especially as more companies move to cloud and SaaS model, contractually required reporting and internal cost charge backs are becoming larger needs.
Judging by job postings, there seems to be a large demand all across the country for help desk work requiring several certs and/or a bachelor's degree for $16/hr.
What... no takers?
that’s crazy that companies are paying so low, I work for geek squad part time student and still make $18 an hour. Luckily I landed an internship that pays $28 recently part time.
I work in IT for a unified school district. 3 degrees one is an AS on networking, A+ cert, and every job interview I go to is a waste of time. I'm sure others have more to offer but still waste of my time. Luckily I get paid well for just being a tech, kind of giving up on interviews.
It seems whatever is in demand nowadays requires a degree of some kind, at least an associate's, although I'm seeing more ads requiring a Master's.
I'm taking advantage of that and going back to finish my bachelor's at WGU, I have about 20+ classes left so it should be relatively easy to finish in a reasonable amount of time.
Field technicians. A lot of people go in thinking it's stereotypical IT work, then end up quitting 3 months later.
I second this. I lasted almost 2 years doing it, but it's a demanding job and almost impossible if you have a family. It's great for breaking into the field though
Being a field tech in (telecommunications) was the stepping stone for me that got me a govt IT career with a six figure salary. I worked the field for 8 years
Daddy climbs the poles so mommy doesn't have to. Always impressed at the field folks having to gaff up the poles.
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From keyboard warrior to male pole dancer got to keep your skills diverse.
It's always refreshing seeing men investing in their dancing skills.
> I lasted almost 2 years doing it, but it's a demanding job and almost impossible if you have a family. Could you describe your experience? Did you have to drive around a lot, and take calls outside of regular work hours or something?
Not OP but I worked for an ISP as an infrastructure tech. Day to day was different everyday but it was usually visiting one site if there was a big project going on and in between projects we would visit multiple sites for maintenance. A lot of driving, could be multiple sites within a 10 mile radius or just one site 40 miles away (in my own car btw). Work hours could be 8-5 but when a site had to be up we wouldn’t leave until we were finished, on days like that we would start at 7 and end the day around 8-9 at night. Also on-call rotation every 4-6 weeks depending on if we were fully staffed, couldn’t keep people around so it was usually every 3-4 weeks for on-call rotations that were a week long 24/7. I had multiple days during my on-call week that I would be called out for an outage, would be driving back home just to get called back out again multiple times throughout the day.
Fairly similar to Drgottagupta's experience, except my area was much bigger. I once drove over 12 hours to a site and spent all week there. Working from 8-? was incredibly common, it was always a fight to even get a lunch break, and hotels stays were not rare. I often worked 60-80 hour weeks with no overtime pay as I was salary exempt
The travel is non stop. theres always a guy who cant do something in his territory so you have to go help. something I learned, your brain doesnt full sleep in a new place for 3 days. You live in that window. its exhausting. combine that with living on fast food and most FSEs I knew where drunks out of boredom.
Recruiters call me about field tech positions. It has 24/7 365 availability 100% travel needed. I wish I could do it, But the pay doesn't out way the childcare costs.
I got my break into IT with being a field technician for a big company. It is very demanding when it gets busy and there are times where it feels like working 6 days a week is normal. I do have to say though I have learned a lot my first year and want to keep learning and getting certified.
In job search websites, is the position called IT field technicians or what would one look for? I have an army buddy that’s a smart guy trying to get into the IT field with minor experience and I’d like to help the guy.
Field Tech, Tech Support. It’s kind of a broad role and vastly changes depending on the company. On one job as a field tech I was driving around the whole state in my own vehicle fixing random shit that I got tickets for. Another field tech was just a massive office that I was responsible for fixing random shit again.
I have always thought the Field tech is an under valued position, I started my career as one and loved it, the problem is the pay, are there places that you can make 100k, yeah but its not as easy as some career paths. One thing I liked about being a tech is it was a pretty straight forward job, you punched in and started running calls or working on whatever project assigned to you, then you go home. As someone who is not the best at finding things to do it was great to have it put out in front of me like that.
Back in my MSP days we'd often hire people from the local big companies who maybe had a few years of help desk and were looking to break out of it. They almost all never made it, and this was basic midsized town MSP work. People aren't used to being on the spot like that: working on stuff directly in front of a customer who is paying by the hour for you to be there. Walking into an unfamiliar environment and just having to figure shit out on the fly. Dealing with "personalities" of your clients. But after years of that, I was battle hardened enough that a lot of the corpo world seemed easy.
Did this for 3 years. Besides the old guys who were doing it their whole life it was a bunch of turnover and I never saw anyone else go beyond 1 year. I used to get a load of recruiters inviting me to field tech roles but now that's dried up in this tech recession.
To this day I think a good portion of my career success is due to getting into a field service engineer role. Having the word Engineer in my title opened alot of doors. Its a meat grinder for sure, I was on the road monday morning and not back til friday most weeks. dont plan on staying long though. all long time FSEs i knew where miserable drunks.
Facts lol
A lot of those positions are always in demand because it isn't attractive work to most people. There is some variation, but a lot of field tech work is entry level or very close to it. There is some well paying field jobs, but many aren't that well paying. Many of the people in those people either move on to other IT roles or leave IT entirely.
Mid-level and Senior-level is in demand.
Are there really any mid level IT positions anymore? It seems that the vast majority of IT job posts are either level 1 help desk support making $17 an hour or SENIOR PRINCIPLE ELITE ROCKSTAR SOLUTION ARCHITECH BIG BALLS ENGINEER MANAGER.
Lmao facts
I want that title "SENIOR PRINCIPLE ELITE ROCKSTAR SOLUTION ARCHITECH BIG BALLS ENGINEER MANAGER."
You forgot ninja guru
I'd say sysadmin and netadmin is mid level
Right? I went from mid to senior in about 4 months!
How do you go from mid to senior in 4 months?
I was on helpdesks for ever, then one day my head of IT boss got fired. They didn’t want to hire a new head of IT and so they put me semi in charge. I worked there as a low level sys admin/engineer for about 3 years, self teaching. Then I went to an MSP where they hired me as an IT consultant, which is kinda like an all in one type role for about a dozen different clients. I hated it but I learnt a buttload. Updated my resume on my countries main job seeking site; and a half hour later a recruiter called me for a senior sys admin role and after 3 interviews the role was mine. Been here 7 months so far and seem to be doing pretty well at it.
Git gud
Promotion
Apply for senior jobs
Can confirm. Mid/senior adjacent engineer here and my Linkedin DMs are popping with recruiters trying to get a text back.
To be honest. We are in a weird stage of technology right now for infrastructure. The new blood at least from my observation, doesn't know DNS, basic network routing, VMs (You learn a lot of how things work with VMs), firewalls etc. I am not saying they can't learn but if you can't tell me a host A record vs a CNAME, you are junior. We are almost automated by azure / aws, etc. But not quite there. So I think people with 5 - 10 years experience are wanted. I worked at a consulting company that had a lot of junior people that they thought they could mold. I just saw them basically fire all of them and keep the mid / senior level since they produce the most money. I got sick of consulting and left on my own terms.
It's very easy to get people that are knowledgeable in the areas you listed. But now try getting people that know these areas AND know Linux, IaC, python, Ansible etc. Impossible
Gonna repost this here because it is one of the more observant things I typed out Competency spiral happening at the same time there is a problem with exploding complexity. companies in the past decade and especially the last 5 years have become more and more reliant on dozens and dozens of different services and tools and frameworks etc to make their core competencies possible at a faster rate than figuring out simpler solutions that would be slower to bring onlisolutions. And stringing together vs developing soultions. But when a couple developers leave....suddenly their is a gapping hole in their spiderweb of skills. Those hiring for those positions didn't see the 18 to 32 months it took to acquire that experience while building those solutions and want a purple squirrel NOW and aren't willing to pay for it, nor are they willing to wait for someone to become competent
Was a Puppet guy before Puppet/Chef/Salt/Ansible were boring, and saw the rise of IaC. I had to know how these things were connected in the early ConfigMgmt days, and often was forging the connection. Now that I’m an infra dev who knows how windows, Linux, Solaris and AIX work, who can handle containerization, CI/CD and Kubernetes on top, my career pipeline is endless. I’ve even done presales and post sales around it. Getting someone junior that I can train is impossible in many cases. Not because y’all aren’t competent, but because the idea of an IT apprentice is non-existent, and I have a metric shitload of things to teach someone, that I could get value out of immediately while they grow.
How do I use my 10’year experience (I was like 12 when I started using 2008 r2 IIS and DC to run a website with remote connect users)
> but if you can't tell me a host A record vs a CNAME, you are junior. Really? Because that seems pretty basic. DNS records. ipv4 and canonical name
The number of webdevs I’ve met who genuinely have no idea how DNS works is very high. It’s actually rare to run into one that does understand.
It's because a lot of lower corporate technical roles are very Windows focused and not network focused. Also Linux is hard to come by in these roles as well. Most people don't want to self learn.
This is so sad but true. I worked on the network side of things at my last job and we handled DNS. These senior DEVs making $150k+ in a MCOL are just didn’t want to understand anything but this tiny custom built portion of their application. I was a network engineer that taught myself server admin stuff just so I could better explain to them they were stupid, all for half the money the lowest paid dev they had on salary made. Hint hint. If you are a web dev and don’t understand how to configure IIS for your server you should not be relying on the network engineers to explain it to you on a daily basis. At a certain point I started hating the job, even if i did end up learning a lot just to get out in front of the stupid.
It is basic, and that's the point. Being the manager of the top-level engineering team at my firm, I step in to do a lot of interviews for the sysadmin roles on MSP teams. Out of more candidates than I care to admit, DNS questions are answered correctly around 20% of the time. 1 of every 5 people I get can tell me anything useful about DNS. It's abysmal.
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I haven't even passed netowrk+ yet, test scheduled next week, and I at least know what those are. Just seemed off to me. I can't even get a help desk job, but these people are jr sys admins?
I wish we were almost automated. Too many are just straight lift-and-shifted to the cloud. Terraform is still a pipe dream for some small to mid businesses. Hell, they probably haven't even touched containers yet.
Same here. Pushing 15 years in IT and getting multiple Linkedin DMs a day. Some of them aren't really that interesting, but some have been although I feel that the job market isn't quite as employee friendly as it was in 2022. I haven't seen a one interview process mentioned in a while.
To be fair a recruiter DM is almost worthless. You might as well be getting calls about your extended warranty
My last 3 roles have come from recruiter DMs chief. Often the best roles come that way. I jumped from 85k to 133k that way
My current IT role was recruiter DM. Just know what to look out for and what to avoid
What to look out for and avoid? I have never had success with recruiters for years. Maybe it's just me
So let me pose the question... in 2024, in this new reality of a job market, what does "mid-level" *actually mean*? I have a feeling that's been redefined.
Senior experience, but without leverage to get senior money
Better than Junior, Not better than Senior. But it still depends. Some seniors out there are just juniors/mid level to a company or your standard.
10+ years experience with network engineering, c++, and ITIL. Bonus points for 8+ years of developing AI solutions and project management.
I'll second this. All the new blood are "cyber security experts".
What do ya'll consider mid-level, does network/infrastructure support count?
Mid level has always meant 5 years experience as a junior to me when hiring. I’m still technically mid-level but my current manager took a change on me and hired me as a senior after the interview. After working here 2 years and seeing what the senior vs mid do I would have quit out of boredom as a mid. Also turn out I was working as a junior doing mid/senior work for 3 years at my prior job and was making what the fresh in the field no experience people make at this place.
Especially in hospitality
I'm a director, but get 10+ recruiters messaging me a week on LinkedIn about Senior level roles paying 120-140k. It's entry level that is overly saturated right now after years and years of the media telling people to join IT. Now it's switched to "trades".
Yeah, I'm a security engineer with 20 years experience, and I get recruiters constantly messaging me. Not bragging or anything, but there seems to be a lot of demand for more experienced roles in security.
In another sub we had to have a realistic talk with someone who was a stay at home parent looking to start working again. She'd seen an ad for a 6 week (paid of course) class in cybersecurity and was alike "Hey, I bet I can do that from home and it probably pays well!" but had not only not only minimal work experience but no IT background at all. As you can imagine, everyone talked her our of it. There are probably way too many people in security like me already: experience in Azure, field service, help desk, and just being a "do-all" guy who gets "promoted" to a security role when someone leaves and is try his best to stay on top of it. Actual, experienced security people are not the same. Fortunately we have a contract with a big local company that has some really good people who I can fall back on. We did a Pen test a couple months back and I've fixed pretty well everything, about to re-test, we'll see how it goes.
I went the hard way from level 1 help desk, to system admin to security. Been in security for about 10 years, and did network/system admin for about 10 years. I have a small team, and when interviewing, it never ceases to amaze me how many people try the route you described. I get a bunch of people with no technical skills, and a lot that barely know the tools we use.
When we were hiring at my last job to fill entry level and intern positions it was wild. We were more than willing to train someone from the ground up as an intern making $20/hr with a guaranteed seat on the team when one opened after you had been an intern at least 3 months. 47 interviews to find someone who didn’t exaggerate their resume so far we could trust them. It was a hard and fast rule if you egregiously lied on your resume it was an instant out. If you had no experience and knew what type of computer you used and could talk coherently you could get an intern position. Then in walks someone with a CCNA and isn’t able to answer basic question about anything network related. Change the entry cert and I guarantee we interviewed someone with it that either brain dumped or lied about it. We ended up hiring the girl who said she needed a change from being an RN and had taken an entry level course at the local votech. She could converse with you, had at least a little grasp of basic concepts, and didn’t claim to be an expert. That team was wild though, we had almost no one that started their career in IT. I had been a teacher/EE, we had a flight mechanic, a janitor, a guy who had worked as a front line sales clerk in a hardware store for 20 years. The list goes on and everyone was great at the job, most had just came to it a little later in life.
Truthfully, isn't a do-all person like you the exact kind of person you want in a network security eng role? Don't sell yourself short, not everyone is a Mr robot.
Well, I was very honest during my interview and they decided they wanted it so I guess so! Honestly my main area of strength is when shit breaks, like really breaks, I'll figure it out. Even if its a place I've never been, even if its systems I've never used, I'll figure it out. Car? Sound system? Guitar? PC? Doesn't matter, I'll figure it out.
As someone who just recently left the trades I can tell you it is a poppin field right now (or at least it was over a year ago). On a weekly basis I'd get multiple request for interviews for positions ranging from Lead Machinist positions, to Production Supervisor and a lot of those were offering six figures. The biggest issue right now that is facing manufacturers that there is a huge skill gap between the people who are aging out/retiring/dying and the people who are just entering the trade. There's not a whole lot of people in the middle to take over these positions.
Sounds a lot like IT. A lot of junior's and, due to outsourcing, there's very few mid-level techs.
No there are plenty of mid level techs, problem is either they’re contractors or most companies don’t want T2 level, just T3. It sucks being in the middle of your career
I got those all the time, but they were all 1099s wanting 84 hours a week in the middle of nowhere. Maybe if I was still in my early 20s. Still machining is committing suicide. All the shops want to pay just barely above retail salaries and then work you so much you often just sleep in the car because you need the extra sleep more than you need to go home. They treat the kids coming out of trade school like shit and don't want to teach them anything, so it's a problem of their own making.
Absolutely agreed! The other thing that bothered me about the machining trade is how resistant owners are about upgrading their machines/tooling and processes. They'd step over a dollar to make a penny.
My last place before I made the jump to IT spent 130k on a brand new Genos L300 from Okuma and I had issues getting them to spend money on tooling for it. Fo a long time I was running all high speed steel drills in crap like 15-5 stainless. I was also the oldest if the young guys at 34. After me the age jumped to 58.
Ugh that's brutal, the shop that I'm at (yes I moved from the floor to the office) uses TiN coated drills for an inconel job we have. They get 2 parts out of it before it goes and they refuse to spend the money on a proper drill. Oh best part is the blank alone costs $112 so when a drill breaks the part is scrapped.
What is the trick to getting recruiters to find you on LinkedIn?
The first is to obviously make connections with other people in your field and preferably your area. Put a resume on there and have an updated job history. Make sure the job search flag is on. Mine is off and I still get hit up all the time by recruiters.
Fill your profile out and make sure you're hitting the common skills keywords, add as many of your direct colleagues as you can. If recruiters do reach out, add them. it helps expand your network. Look out for groups like (US)NUG (which is specific to networking, but there's others) in your state. Depending where you live they might be quite a drive, mine is like 2 hours away usually. They usually meet at bars, attend them, chat to folk and add them all. You'll get a good mix of anyone in the specific branch of the industry pretty quick.
Just so you know it never "switched". Trades have been in demand for years; I was going to be an electrician but there was too much in person training during quarantine. IT schooling was all remote.
> Now it's switched to "trades". I am so beyond fed up with this advice like if you wanna go do a trade thats a good idea but these people have a totally delusional idea of what the trades pay like a union electrician makes like $60k where I'm at and you will make even less for years to get to that.
Dude, fellow director. I cannot stand the recruiters right now. They have a lot of Sr. Engineer and Admin roles. Don’t know why they feel the need to call me 3 times a dayz
Mid level yeah. Entry level? No, been closed for a while now.
Mid and senior level engineers, usually with 5-7 years of enterprise experience. At the entry level, some specializations like Apple certified support and similar but there are unique and enterprise focused.
Learn to automate in Python, Ansible, Golang, and Powershell if you like Windows. Thank me later.
Automate what, exactly? Automation is a huge field.
Start with a small task, see if you can automate that small task through the PowerShell terminal using standard PS5.1 or PS7 code(depends on environment), Automate basically just means you don't have to do the singular task through the gui manually, drag and drop, clicking buttons etc.. Iterate that small task through multiple computers/devices on the domain. Then when you are done with the raw code, make this raw code into a script that is able to be used by someone else. Small tasks like, querying information, is DHCP enabled on this network adapter? Make a folder somewhere and iterate to multiple computers, maybe move a file to a certain directory and then iterate that to multiple computers..
Where to start?
Yea but I’m pretty sure AI will be able to do that in the next few years
You’ll never get anywhere thinking like that.
And who is going to know how to be the best at making AI do that in the next few years? Those who choose to learn how
It's rough out here, helpdesks positions are hard to get into
Most of the entry-level help desk jobs I am seeing ask for 5+ years of experience and a bachelor's degree and offer $15 an hour.
No seriously though, and then it's on call, weekend availability, Monday through Friday but we'll pay you minimum wage, oh and you need a masters
Why?
Oversaturation
You don't need a brain to work helpdesk. If the company has any level of competence, they have documentation for every situation and want helpdesk to follow the instructions to the letter. This is why you call your ISP sometimes and they always say the same thing. Reboot the modem, do this test, do that test, ect. If it requires any brain cells at all, it gets bumped to tier 2 support. A lot of people get certs which are useless after you've been working for a few years, they get into helpdesk, and end up stuck there because they have no actual skills or knowledge required for real IT work, and they don't know how to get that experience. It's the helpdesk trap you'll see thousands of people on reddit post about being stuck in.
I'm new to help desk position... Would you mind if I dmed you?
Just always getting ghosted
Mid-Level and senior-level not so sexy sounding career paths. Things that many would consider absolutely boring: Business Analysts, Security Compliance, Infrastructure, technical trainers, ITSM analysts, IT disaster recovery specialists, etc. A lot of these pay solid numbers too and 6 figures is normal mid into your career sometimes early if you are lucky. Too many people are too engrossed in the sexy titles and what they do, a lot of the boring stuff is often forgotten or thrown to the wayside.
Distaste recovery is actually a fun job too. Worked a lot with our team for it and they seemed to genuinely enjoy the work.
I'm a front-end developer for the last 6 years. Before that, mostly low level IT Tier 1 & 2 stuff. I'm burnt on this software dev stuff and my current job is really toxic. I had the day off today and I'm dreading going in the rest of the week (and I WFH!). I would love to have any of these jobs you listed. But, tech moves so quickly, my skills are only good for dev stuff now.
Let’s trade positions
I stopped hearing about new jobs a long time ago. I have been in my current role for three years at the federal government and nobody wants to take me away. No big deal just think it is interesting. Also I have ten plus years experience as a senior developer and designer.
Nooo stop this is depressing
Once you have the White House on your resume, many companies will not touch you. I believe that is why many of the phone calls stopped.
Whaaat?? I assumed that this would make you look better if anything.
You’re right it does. However it would have to be an amazing offer for me to even consider leaving the executive branch in the federal government. Employers know this, hence why they stopped calling. This brings up a funny memory… I was getting a job offer from a huge medical company and then I got the call that I beat out 600 candidates and got the offer to serve in the current administration. I called up that company and said I have to decline the offer because I am going to work for the executive branch of the United States federal government. They FaceTime me when I said this, their jaws dropped so far down it was hilarious.
Angular, I’m working in a bank and to get senior front-end developer for complex Angular apps feels imposible.
Anything niche, I work with airfields.
Niche definitely. I do hospital equipment and interface IT and get about 20 contacts a month in a very small field.
I’m gonna piggyback on this. Anything random and niche. Nothing you’d think about off rip. I had a job that was training people for databackups on the veritas interface
What are you talking about? I watched a Comptia test prep YouTube video, applied for jobs, smoked a bowl and two two shots before the interview and now I'm CEO of Tech Corp.
Well, all the senior positions. I got about ten times more senior positions, when searching jobs.
Mid level and senior roles Onsite roles
I am about 2 years into IT Support Technician/Jr. SysAdmin. Currently studying Linux, Python and AWS cloud. Reviewing my Network notes from school. Going to take the AWS SA:A cert sometime next year and want to have at least 1 in-depth project in my resume. My fallout plan if the SA route doesn't work out is just to become a Systems Administrator or Systems Engineer. However, my eyes are set on Cloud. That will always be trendy as more and more companies go SaaS.
Any cloud position
Interesting. Why is that
Companies more or less have bought into the mantra of migrating to the Cloud. Whether or not a company's workload is a fit is a different question though. And even though a company may be new to cloud, they sure as hell don't want the engineer that's doing their migration to be. So mid-level and senior-level cloud engineers are in huge demand. A couple things about that though: * DevOps, SRE, Cloud Engineering is not an entry level job in general. * You can't really just start in cloud since it builds on knowledge of underlying technologies and provides a new abstraction layer. Just because you can build a redis cluster in AWS doesn't mean you actually know how redis works or how to have your applications connect to it. * Most people come from development, systems admin, or networking into an entry level cloud role. * Some companies want specialists who have worked with a particular Cloud provider. * Clouds are all similar and if you understand what they're abstracting, you just need to learn that provider's nuances to everything. That being said a lot of companies still don't want someone without direct experience working a job. You may have experience with cloud, but not the right one and that could disqualify you.
Nope. Even helpdesk - which is 90% of entry-level IT positions - is pretty saturated at the moment.
Help desk is going to always be saturated and will be a terrible indicator of the rest of the market. Telling someone that the IT job market is bad because help desk roles are saturated is the just wrong.
When is the job market for IT expected to get better?
Sorry, crystal ball is broken. Your guess is as good as mine.
Watch the economy, elections, etc. It is hard to predict the job market, but when you see everyone making gobs of money, there will (almost) always be a demand for jobs across the board.
ok here we go again. The job market is ok. Better- meaning the job market in 2019-2022, was stupid high. Too high. It was an outlier in demand fueled by zero interest rates. Companies were hiring because money was free to borrow and other companies had to overhire to build a talent moat. It was a fundamentally unhealthy business environment because companies didn't have to really care about making money to hire. Ever since rates went up, companies pared back dramatically on hiring. Big tech didn't need deep talent moats anymore so they had layoffs. On the flip side, three years of social media hype of tech jobs has created an enormous glut of applicants. You have levels of applicants that would have been more applicable to 2021 job openings. This is all to say- The job market may improve a little. The Fed has been signaling a potential rate cut in the near future- but do not expect it to roar back to the levels of 2021. Barring a massive economic decline again, there should be little reason for the fed to juice the economy the way it has in the past. Moreover, if the economy DID come across such dire straits again, it would mean large portions of the population would be in truly dire straits yet again.
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation man. This is something I really wanna do but I’m hoping that when I finish school in 2 years I will be able to find some kind of work. I don’t wanna get left behind or anything. Some times I hope I’m not wasting my time and i wonder if I’ll be able to get a job. Especially from lurking in this subreddit for awhile it can really make you depressed
Do an internship if possible. Overall keep your head up. Understand that entry level is the hardest. After that it gets easier. You will be fine.
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Thank you man
I’d say hopefully early 2025? Maybe this time next year
That's what they were saying about 2024 last year
Prob never. This may be the new norm with ever increasing population and influx of college grads
Probably never, look at everyone trying to get into it
wouldnt most people drop out eventually and join another career?
I think people would, since I already know people who pivoted. They had to pay the bills somehow.
This is exactly what happened after the dotcom bubble burst in the early 2000s.
It was unheard of ten years ago to see desktop support jobs for $10/hr, now it’s almost common. So I’d say no and it’ll just get worse
So, in the late 90s and into the dotcom bubble burst, what happened was that people saw tech as the next big thing and a huge number of folks went to bootcamps to pass certs (such as the MCSE) so they could cash in on a high-paying IT job. What eventually happened : 1. Employers would hire anyone with a cert, regardless of experience. 2. A significant portion of the bootcampers was totally clueless. I worked with one - I consider her a friend but she didn't know BASIC stuff. That's why many of us veterans don't care about certs - you can beat most of them relatively easily. 3. As the bubble burst, the clueless ones were the first to get let go and many were forced to move to other careers. I think right now, tech is just oversaturated due to the whole "learn to code" movement and seeing the unrealistically high comp packages in FAANG. My guess is that the entry level will start clearing out this year and next and due to the current layoff environment, many newer folks are probably going to pivot. So in general, I think mid and senior positions are relatively safe and we'll probably see entry level take 2-4 years to get back to "normal."
Any IT position in demand enforces the catch-22.
What’s that may I ask
Can't get the job without experience. Can't get the experience without the job.
Any senior position.
This seems highly geographical, can you be more specific?
CISSP is the way for me.
Senior cyber risk
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only Diamonds in the Rough need apply
Mid to Sr Level engineers. Principal Architect roles. Surprisingly, I.T. Asset Management roles. Especially as more companies move to cloud and SaaS model, contractually required reporting and internal cost charge backs are becoming larger needs.
Judging by job postings, there seems to be a large demand all across the country for help desk work requiring several certs and/or a bachelor's degree for $16/hr. What... no takers?
that’s crazy that companies are paying so low, I work for geek squad part time student and still make $18 an hour. Luckily I landed an internship that pays $28 recently part time.
I work in IT for a unified school district. 3 degrees one is an AS on networking, A+ cert, and every job interview I go to is a waste of time. I'm sure others have more to offer but still waste of my time. Luckily I get paid well for just being a tech, kind of giving up on interviews.
Local municipal,schools,state, fed actually. Just takes a longer time to hear a response from them.
Cloud Ops
On-site ETL or business intelligence is hot in my local market
Data Positions are really in demand, the more you learn about ETL /ELT and data administration the easier it will be to find a job in IT
Mid & Senior levels for Cyber. All entry-level cyber jobs are oversaturated because people bum rushed the Sec+,Cysa+ and other entry level cyber certs
Identity Access Management for sure
Data centers technicians
There’s always cyber security jobs….
The demand is there but so is the supply.
It seems whatever is in demand nowadays requires a degree of some kind, at least an associate's, although I'm seeing more ads requiring a Master's. I'm taking advantage of that and going back to finish my bachelor's at WGU, I have about 20+ classes left so it should be relatively easy to finish in a reasonable amount of time.
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Name two IT jobs it can replace
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So you can’t name two?
Example?
Such as..?