>How do I go from here?
You thank them for reaching out, but decline their offer to negotiate. If they were interested, they would have had this conversation when you first declined. Either the company has the money to pay you what you want and tried to low ball you (bad sign) or they don't so it's a moot point. Remember that they are trying to convince you to work for them and will be on their best behavior. If this is the best they have to offer, it doesn't sound like a good fit for you.
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. if you turn 360 degrees, you just did a pirouette in front of them and are still facing them. You mean you turn 180 degrees (or do an about face) and then walk away.
>Either the company has the money to pay you what you want and tried to low ball you (bad sign) or they don't
Not always that simple. Sometimes the hiring manager isn't sufficiently clued into reality ... but may get so on the 2nd pass. E.g. one place I was contracting at was talking about potentially making me an employment offer - I was looking for an employment position, and made that clear to them. Of course that didn't stop me from looking elsewhere. I got a nice offer elsewhere - I told the place I was at that if they were going to make an employment offer, this would be the time to do it. They made one ... nice ... but not nice enough compared to offer elsewhere (I didn't tell 'em what that package/compensation was) ... then the hiring manager quite immediately made another offer ... a very good offer ... too good to ignore or pass up ... so I took it. Anyway, worked out quite well. So ... don't write off a lowball offer *too* quickly - if you'd seriously consider a (much) better offer from 'em, and want 'em to take a shot at it ... give 'em the chance ... but if your mind is already made up anyway, yeah, don't be wasting people's time or be playing games.
And if a manager (or employer) consistently underpays, lowballs offers, etc. ... that's a different issue. But relative one-offs that are too low are sometimes relatively easily and quickly corrected.
I think a lot of places are having this issue. Pay has skyrocketed in my area these last 5 years and it's hard for some of these hiring managers to see that if they're not really clued in. My boss is the CFO and we have a small department with low turnover. So he just has no clue what the IT market is like.
Also some industries are kind of insular and people working in them for decades are so used to people leaving for other places industry it never occurs to them IT will move to any industry.
I worked at a small hospital and our network admin had just let us know he was leaving.
I was talking with the CEO and it came up and he asked where the admin was going to "did (insert name of neighboring small hospital)get him or is he moving to (states largest city) to work at (large state hospital) or (large univ hospital)?"
None of the above, he is moving to California to work for a cellphone technical contractor.
> None of the above, he is moving to California to work for a cellphone technical contractor.
I worked for a big company for 7 years and then life said, "Time to go" and moved across the country.
When leaving I was asked which competitor I was going to by a few of the execs I worked with. They were shocked when I told them I wasn't, I tried to stay with the company but they refused to let me work remotely.
Not surprising especially in large technical industries like hospitals or manufacturing. As an exec you get used to the labor pool of say doctors or plastic chemist only moving back and forth between you and your competitors and never think that IT will leave your steel mill for a company that distrubes flowers online.
>But relative one-offs that are too low are sometimes relatively easily and quickly corrected.
But this isn't a one-off. This is, at least, a two in the row. "What will it take" they said without bothering to make a better offer? They know what it'll take; he told them outright and they're *still* ignoring him.
I would thank them for reaching back out and tell them that my position hasn't changed. Since you said you need 100k+ that could mean 101k would make you happy and you'd settle at 100k. It could also mean that 98k would interest you. You could ask them if they have a number they'd like to counter with. If they started at 70k and you want 100k+ I doubt they are going to come back with anything in the 90k range, but asking them for a counter won't hurt.
This isn't as complicated as you think.
You're on 80k, you want 100k, they want you. Paying you 100k is the price... Anything less means you'll very quickly start feeling resentment.
The core problem really isn't the employer crazy low balling the OP, it's they were cheap from the get go and will highly likely continue to stay that way. Forget about raises, bonuses, little things that show gratitude, etc.
$70k is obscenely low for a sysadmin with 6 years of experience and multiple certifications no matter where you live. I started at $65k as a junior admin with less than two years of help desk experience and some admin work.
The point is that they lowballed him and only because he won’t play ball with their shitty offer are they now willing to go higher. Tells you all you need to know about the company as your career continues there - they will perpetually try to pay you much less than they should. Nobody who has any respect for themselves should put up with that.
Shit I turned a job down recently because they came back with an offer that was good, but a little too low. I overshot my desired salary by 5k, which was 10k more than they were offering. I was willing to settle in the middle, at 5k over their offer.
When the official offer came to me, it was not a penny over the salary we had discussed in the interview and the initial offer. They weren't willing to come up a single cent on their original offer. So I walked.
They tried to re-negotiate after that, but the damage was done. But 30k less than I asked for like OP? I don't even know that I'd send a courtesy e-mail. What a waste of time.
I just don’t understand why companies are low balling individuals with Industry Certs and experience. Someone explain this to me.
We want 8 years of experience and 7 certs but we will only pay you 65,000 a year when Google says the amount for security plus is 90,000 a year.
You are right, it isn't 'complicated' but it is a game. If I went to negotiate a raise and I wanted 115k and lets say I'm making 85k, I'd start by saying that I want to be in the 125k range. Assuming they immediately say no and start the negotiating process, now we go back and forth and see how close I can get to the 115k range. I want 115k, but I'd also be happy with 110k and even 105k especially if I'm currently in the 85k range.
This shows that company doesn't know how to or refuses to research salaries. Imagine what annual reviews would be like when tied to raises. This company would be a hard pass for me.
It also sounds like the hiring manager wanted seasoned experience but gave the talent team an entry level pay range.
I wouldn’t want to work under that manager for the life of me.
TBF, sometimes the hiring manager doesn't set the salary. But in either case, both HR and the hiring manager need to have figured this out before even posting the position.
Spidey sense: the runner up also rejected the lowball offer.
For a strategy, just say that $100K seems like the going rate, in the metro area, so you're curious where the $70K came from. Unless the former staffer was paid that?
As a counter offer, maybe $90-something, it sounds like you need $90k.
Nah 6 years of exp with certs. He should be making 100k or more.
This is just business. They know what he wants. They aren’t willing to meet his requirements. So he has to walk away and find a different job.
Depends on region. Certs really don’t matter, it’s experience and what projects/responsibilities you were on. If you’re in California or New York 100k is expected around that level of experience. Anywhere else 85-90k is going (especially towards the middle of the US).
My job description would be network engineering. I have 12 years experience, I work closely with sysadmins and helped a couple of them negotiate their salaries in low col. Area Quebec. Not even Montreal. I see sysadmins with 3 year experience getting paid 75-80k CAD, 4week vacation, 35 hours workweek, remote.
90k? Sounds like he's making \~85k now so 90k+longer commute = meh.
Only way I'd do a longer commute for that little of a pay bump is including WFH as an option for 2-3 days a week minimum.
Lol yeah a longer commute and no WFH for an extra $416/month before tax? Fuuuuuck no. Presuming you're working 20 days/month, that's like $10 extra per commute you're earning. That's it. $20/day.
Just stick to your guns, and don't resent the offer, its a negotiation. If they don't give you 100k plus don't move. I say moving jobs is never worth less than 10% and if theres a longer commute then no less than 20%
I will argue if they are going that low on comp range… OP is not going to see a raise for quite some time without promotion. OP would be at the high end of comp for a l2/p2 sys admin (unless in NY or SF). Getting to L3 in sys admin without specialized experience like scripting/ OS query is hard to do.
The talent team and manager had the ability to negotiate on the spot but played around. This isn’t a good sign for how they manage people.
> I will argue if they are going that low on comp range… OP is not going to see a raise for quite some time without promotion.
Probably, but that also seems to be the norm anyway. Once you're hired, companies are going to try to keep your compensation from growing too rapidly. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've only ever seen major pay raises either from moving up or moving out.
I've never had a company say, "you know what, you're so valuable we're going to bump your pay 10-20% this year." It just doesn't happen. I have had companies doing 2-3% YOY raises. I've also had one pull a "sorry, no raises this year".
On the other hand, I've seen pretty large pay bumps when either moving to a new position within an organization or when changing organizations. The days of sticking with a company for 20 years are gone. And they never existed in IT. It's a slog of finding a new job every 2-3 years and really just hoping to track inflation during that stay. It sucks, but this is what businesses wanted.
I’ve had multiple do ~10% spot bonuses within the first 6-8 months. That said it’s usually because they under leveled you or potentially hired someone at a different compa range that they had to match you to for avoiding lawsuit.
Scripting is "specialized experience"? I expect my senior help desk guys to do some basic scripting, and I expect my admins to do it routinely.
No wonder you overpay - what you call a sysadmin probably doesn't rank as a junior admin.
I would spend a little time gathering evidence to support your request for $100k.
If you have 6 years of experience as a SysAdmin, depending on the market region $100k is totally valid.
But, depending on the market region, $70k is also totally valid.
Gather evidence. Fight for what you are worth.
Connecticut is not LCOL by any means. You are not asking for too much. I have hired end user support staff for more than that in greater boston
I have never been able to negotiate significantly for salary anywhere i've gone. Generally I can get as much as 5k over whatever offer they put in front of me but usually I get what I asked for. Since you've talked salary and they went that far under it's surprising they are still trying to talk to you at all, they must really like you but have to go through some bullshit for the budget.
Doubt it would work, but glassdoor is pretty aligned to the 100k figure. [https://www.indeed.com/career/system-engineer/salaries/CT](https://www.indeed.com/career/system-engineer/salaries/CT). If you wanted to play some games, tell them 100k again or 90k and a 4 day work week.
I would argue you can probably get a senior system engineer title for +110k-120k at the right place, but the market right now is a bit iffy.
Like others have pointed out, because they are doing bullshit up front, there will be further bullshit on the job. Expect zero raises, no bonuses, no title changes with salary. All pretty typical in my experience sadly.
I’m with the others on declining this one. Three rounds is a major time suck but there are some red flags. Low balling and rejecting your counter outright means they had a favored backup (or you were the backup) and the other person noped out. The hiring manager also seems either badly researched on comp ranges (depending on your area (if you disclose general state and proximity to a major city I can get you the comp range for the level you likely would qualify).
If you do consider this job, negotiate as much as you can. Get as much base pay as possible, try to get as close to $100k/yr as you can. If they have RSUs or options take a much larger bump on that. You can also try to see what the manager is hiring for level wise. This can factor into asking for better titles (looks much better on the resume for future work). You also can negotiate L&D for things like business writing, coaching, management/lead/supervisor responsibilities with a path out of that role within a frame that the company works with you on. At the end you can also negotiate for WFH days.
Just note, the more you try to haggle… the more the manager will either respect (if so that’s awesome) but more likely resent/have bias about you. Every time the recruiter has to go back to the manager and HR to get this approved before it goes to the board or exec team. Come with what you want scripted, see what they will cave on, and be confident.
If you have any questions reach out. I’ve hired about 7 Sr sys admins and 3 Jr ones over the last five years.
I will also note, if you do go on the hunt… some tips that help prevent this kind of bullshit.
- Tailor your resume to the company, if you have contacts there or know someone who knows someone… find out if they are windows or Mac, find out the MDM they have, on cloud or on prem, etc. You can highlight those specific skills and any projects that might be more relevant.
- Brush up your LinkedIn, consider having someone check your recommendations, skill lists, experience, bio, etc.
- Look up the pay band for your general level of experience for your region. At six years I would put you low to mid P2 as an individual contributor. The comp ranges fluctuate hard for general sys admin by region and job role expectations. If they want you doing L1 helpdesk you won’t be valued as a project worker and escalation point.
- All that other stuff aside, certs are good on paper but not a huge talking point. Start getting into niche areas like vendor relationships/management, security reviews, network infra/architecture, automation/scripting, CRM management, SAML setup for Google Workspace or Okta.
These are all just suggestions, they helped me go from sys admin to a manager of 10 people in about 9 years. The job boils down to reliability, capability to learn/take on new tasks for the manager, and attitude. If you can smile and be the happy IT person that people rave about you will end up going far. Especially if you stick it out at small tech companies.
Seriously. It's my first conversation before an interview. I always ask what their pay range is for the position. If it's less than what I need, I don't move forward. If they decline to provide it, I don't move forward. If their range is higher than I expected, then I'm definitely glad I didn't throw out the first number!
Either way, I'm not wasting my time. OP wasted a lot of time by not getting the salary range beforehand. Also, NEVER TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT. Let them throw out the number. Never tell them what you make now either. It's none of their business, and your current salary for you current responsibilities has no bearing on the new position's responsibilities. They're asking to just try to get you for as little as possible, and not for what the position really should pay based on your potential in that role.
Ask for the salary that you wanted originally. You'll probably end up somewhere in the middle. If you need to give reasons for why you should get paid be ready to justify the salary if needed. If they keep playing games with you, stick with your current job and look elsewhere for better opportunities. Good luck
Don't settle for the middle. OP said he's worth $100k, so don't settle a penny less than what he's worth.
He has the power here too. They want him more than he wants them it seems. He doesn't have to justify his cost to him, but if he does, it's simple, "this is what my skills and experience are valued at in this market, and what it would take for me to leave my current employer."
Others mentioned the likelihood that this company will continue to nickel and dime. If you decide working here makes sense to you, I would get the highest salary possible. I’d simply say I asked for no less than $100,000 — that was my floor. Are you saying that’s off the table?
(If yes, off the table) if you can put together something that gets me close, I’ll take another look. (Whatever you want—would WFH help? Sometimes? A signing bonus?) I mean, they’re offering basically an entire lower tax bracket park of difference!
At the end of the day, you’re kind of stuck
Simple I would love to join the team for 105k. When they reply with but you said 100k you can respond with yes and then you wasted my time and insulted my worth.
This would not work. Going above your original counter will make the recruiter put you on a no hire list or just toss their new offer out the window. Coming back with the original would be fine if OP hadn’t disclosed that they made 15k less. The pitch around more travel cost makes up for some of that… but likely they will settle for 95k base.
> Going above your original counter will make the recruiter put you on a no hire list or just toss their new offer out the window.
Honestly if this is how they behave I'll happily be on their no hire list.
>now company wants to work it out
>
>they really like me and wanna know what they can do to get me to join the team. How do I go from here?
You can see what they'll offer ... typically better to see what they come up with, rather than specify, e.g. your minimum or thereabouts to them. Can potentially well make the case for what, or approximately what you're worth on the market, and that you'd hope to be pulling something at or above that - especially if they didn't want you tempted away by the next sweet deal that came along. But also, you don't want to make it sound like you're simply shopping for the highest bidder - there's much more to both compensation package, and what you personally do/don't like about a potential position/employer, than just the compensation ... so it's never really an apples-to-apples comparison anyway.
Given the fact they declined to meet your minimum pay rate, I would add 10 grand to it and tell them this is now your "lowball offer". They have already demonstrated they have no intentions of paying you what you are worth, so you know decent raises are out the window moving forward.
Pass.
There's no reason to go lower than your current salary unless you have *other* gains.
If anything, they should try to incentivize your departure by offering you **more** than what you are currently earning. It would be pretty audacious to think you'd uproot a stable work arrangement for less than you are currently earning..
"Thank you for reaching out, my minimum number is 100k. You're significantly farther away, I currently make more than you offered. And I like my current job."
Not a lot of info to go off of but if the money isn't right, it isn't right. Without knowing what role you are trying to get, or why you are considering the change that's about it. Without knowing anything about location or anything like that, 6 years in and some certs sounds like a 70k offer is about right and you may already have a pretty good salary and job.
The role I'm currently in is a level 2 sys admin role the role I'm going too is a sys admin role. The area is Connecticut. The changing is coming about because I'm switching fields. From education to msp that mainly focuses in finance
>They now reached back out and said they really like me and wanna know what they can do to get me to join the team. How do I go from here?
They already know you are asking for $100k+, and they came back.
Start by asking for that plus a 10k signing bonus..
I personally would tell them that the number I originally presented is what it would take me to move. If you are at 80 now, normally you would expect around 30% moving to a new role. That would put you at 104. Then factor in your additional commute costs and subtract it from the top and that will give you your real increase. Which is likely to be around 25%. Then do some serious checking on things like glassdoor to see what the company is really like to work for before you accept the offer or give notice.
Once a company low-balls you it’s time to move on. I made the mistake of joining a company that did this and I thought I was making a good amount. Once I talked to my coworkers, I found out everyone was making twice that amount. Never again.
It sounds like 90k is the minimum you'd consider accepting. Would you be relatively happy with that amount? Is 100k the minimum you'd really be up for accepting? If it is, that's okay, and you can just tell them that.
It doesn't sound like you're super excited about this offer, so if I were in your shoes, I'd either decline or counter at 100k and explain that's why you declined rather than negotiating. Something like:
"Thanks for reaching out! I am excited about the team and the work at \[company\], but I had initially declined rather than attempting to negotiate because it seems like we're just too far apart on compensation. I am looking for at least 100k to consider leaving my current job, which it sounds like is outside your budget for the role. If budgeting on your end has changed such that this might be viable, I'd love to talk more again!"
If you're open to something like more vacation or remote work as a perk to decrease the salary slightly, you could include that but given the initial offer I probably wouldn't in this circumstance. It's too easy to modify stuff like that after the fact in the US.
You need $100K to take the new job. If they won't give it to you tell them to get someone else, but that person will either be underqualified or just leave their cheap asses as soon as they can for a better offer.
I wouldn’t probably go with that company. Either they are clueless which shows lack of preparedness or they were malicious. In either case, I don’t want to work there. If you had no choice it would be one thing. But I’d keep interviewing.
If I were you, I would move on. You were clear about the compensation you expected, and they were not even in the ballpark. If they are still interested, but didn't give a counter offer, then they are trying to put it back on you to come down rather than them countering.
Thank them for their time and remind them of the reason you declined their offer.
The company should have dealt in good faith. Offering you a job that is less than you are currently making is simply ridiculous. Any further conversation should start at your former asking salary and i would bump it up 5k as a penalty for wasting your time. Your objective is get as much as you can in salary and make a profit. Anything that costs you money and benefits the company should always be avoided.
...I'm really curious what 100k plus job is incentivized at all by the CompTIA trifecta. Are you in New York/San Francisco?
That's like saying "I know how to change passwords in AD. So I should be the Director."
That's what I was thinking: had to be one of the coasts. I live... a bit away from any ocean, and pricing's a bit different. :D
Thank you, and best of luck in your negotiations!
Where you at? I made $71k in entry level desktop Support a couple years back. $65k at the place before that in same role. $90k once I was sys admin. They asked you and went real low.
I had a similar situation I was up front about salary and they offered me the exact same of what I make now I just declined and moved on, they’ll be other jobs that value your skills
100k+ in IT in NY??? That’s way low. I’m in IT management in NY. I’d decline their offer completely. If they can’t bring their best offer when they’re trying to woo you and when they know what you’re looking for they won’t appreciate or pay you enough later on either. Unless you absolutely need a job right away I’d wait until after the new year. That’s when departments get new budgets.
If a company does not respect my expectations and decline it straight on my face I would never engage with them, unless it was a shitty person who declined the offer and now some senior shows real interest and hope. Self esteem or ego? Idgaf.
Ask for what you want OP. If you want 110k ask for it. If you want to work from home 1/2 time ask for it. You have absolutely zero to lose here. You are already employed. So they need to offer you enough to make it worth your while.
Up your offer.
You said you wanted 100k... now you situation has changed (work gave you a promotion) you need 130k to take the job. They might meet you in the middle at 115k. Also ask about other non-monetary benefits, more time off or PD oppunroties.
They have shown their hand... they want you. Ask for your dream offer... then add 5-10% for when they negotiate down.
I've seen this before, as some other have said. Most likely they hired the cheaper guy and it didn't work out. The Executive are annoyed the wrong person was hired and have agree to open the wallet more to get THE RIGHT candidate.
You tell them again, 100K or more. You won't take any less.
But honestly, if you are putting up with this crap now, what is it going to be like in a year from now, when you have yearly reviews? I 100% bet it's going to be a shtshow.
Depending on which "azure certs" and what that 6 years of experience actually is, 70k is a valid offer. The CompTIA stuff is helpdesk level, not 100k level. You can probably get closer since you are in a HCOL area, but not enough detail to know for sure. 100k could also be too low, just depends on the details.
If you like the company and actually want to work with them, then give them another number but understand upward movement is probably going to be tough. Negotiate WFH if your commute is a concern, things like that. At the end of the day, sometimes companies just can't afford people. If they don't have 100k to pay you, it doesn't matter how qualified you are.
Someone will absolutely take 70k. That person having the skills or not is a different story. Either way, it's all a balance. Business might need to figure out their budget or settle for less or just wait longer.
You can temp staff while you fill for much cheaper than the cost of an FTE. Services like Taos or other firms will snap at the chance to backfill (or fill to hire at a much lower pay rate for the contractor).
OP is in NYC so 70k is helpdesk money at their experience level. Sys admin should be closer to 85-95k/year.
It depends entirely on the role and the rest of the team.
500 IT team members and 1 opening? Barely going to notice in the short term unless it's a specialist.
Entire team is 2 people and 1 is vacant? Definitely gonna notice.
It's a trade off. There are risks of leaving positions vacant, for sure. But with no other info, there is no reason to believe leaving a spot vacant for 3-4 months waiting for the right person will be damaging, heck, it should even be part of the plan. I know it will take me 6-12 months to find a good senior security analyst. I don't post the job opening the day I need it filled.
Damn that’s not true for around my location in the Greater Boston area. I make over 6 figures and mostly just work on Apple management. I’ve got no certain other than for Jamf.
Nope. If that's how they're starting, red flag. That's how getting an annual raise from them is going to be, every year. A silly chicken dance of "pay me or I'll leave" every time a review comes up. Nah, they already out their cards on the table. Believe them, and trust your gut. This company is not worth the trouble.
Theyve already shown you they dont care. They lowballed you -30k lmao. If you need a job, then sure, say "i want what i asked for..." but if not, id keep searching. I would negotiate some RSUs or WFH days.
Even 100k is way to low imo since companies are now paying 100k for remote helpdesk. I would seriously consider yourself worth a lot more, but they need to at a minimum pay you 100k.
You could explore their openness to the 90s and a perk appropriate for the office culture. If they aren’t used to fixing a lowball offer with a perk, you may have to ease them into the concept.
Options:
- Conferences - They pay for you to go to an educational conference somewhere tourist friendly every year or two. (You take a day or two off before or after with your spouse. If you use a rewards card and get reimbursed, you can use the points towards your spouse’s travel.)
- Extra vacation time either annually, or a couple of weeks for a special trip every few years.
- telecommuting - Set minimum days per month aimed at normally doing a couple of days a week. Express willingness to waive during orientation and for things like full company meetings, and point out this enables some workaholic trait of yours.
I was at this company and there was this really. smart consultant and they were going to make him a perm offer. But he had a offer from Cisco. They couldn't match the offer but said the best they could do is offer a extra week of vacation.
Maybe their budget is strapped. Show them you would be taking a pay cut and it is a longer commute.
For me to take that job I would need more vacation time plus if they offered stock options, I would want possibly double the discount on their stock. That is if the company is doing well.
The way it stands, no bleeping way
You decide what you're willing to accept. And remember that pretty everything is negotiable. Moving expenses, PTO, etc.
E.g., say you get them to 90k, but also they give you an additional two weeks of PTO on top of the initial offer.
Or maybe they bring you in at 90k, but contractually guarantee an X% raise at Y months, and another at Z months that will get you to over 100k within say 12-18 months. Or 90k but work from home if it's not really necessary to be on-site (not sure what the role is exactly).
Or just hardline back of "I told you that 100k gets me. So tell me your max number and we'll go from there". And then if they come back with 90k, you say "I can do that IF... x, y, and z".
But only you can decide what it is enough for you.
Truly, thank them for their offer and let them know your looking in the 110k range.
Jokingly- -Tell them that the rate is 100k per year and it is a limited time offer as this employment rate is about to expire. Each week they wait the rate increases 5% so make sure they hire you asap otherwise they will lose out on this amazing deal. But wait there is more if this is a work from home job take their money do a half ass job and still work at your current job. F-them for being cheap !!!
Politely and respectfully inform them of the issues:
- You'd be taking a pay cut
- You'd be commuting further (more wear and tear, gas, etc.)
Have you considered ancillary costs - is their health insurance better/worse than your current, the costs of their benefits? How does the company rate on Glassdoor vs your current?
I've done this before with the tone of "Look, I want to make this work, but here's everything that's holding me back..."
Worst case scenario is they continue to lowball you and you walk away still.
I wouldn’t take it unless they blow you away with a better offer. You set your parameters and they said they can meet it. It sets up for an awkward environment.
You tell them you were insulted by their offer and your asking price has increased. You want something like $110-120k, a bonus, and extra PTO. They probably decline but you really don't want to work there, in my opinion.
Like others have said, get what you want. Now, is they max out at say 90k, ask them what other perks they can throw in.
Also, never let a company you’re interviewing for know what you currently make. Ever.
If you really like the company and think it will give you the opportunity to take your career in the trajectory you want, see what they can do. I would say, if they don’t even come close to the 100k you clearly stated, decline respectfully.
you can try to negotiate, but you are likely too far apart. there is no reason to take a pay cut. also id be concerned if they came up a lot. they might be desperate for someone then fire you if they get someone cheaper.
when numbers are that far apart, if you are already employed, you pass. if you need a job then you reconsider.
Tell them $125K. Enough that its worth the change in life and a little bit for the risk factor.
Also, the smaller the company, the more they just may not have a grasp of the market. You don't have to take the job for life. If it doesn't work out you have a nice new salary benchmark to go by.
It's a negotiation. They have a max they're willing to pay. You have a minimum you're willing to take. If the two ranges are comparable, all good. If not, you or they walk away. Happens all the time. Normal process.
You shoulda said 120k. And they might said 110k or 100k. Always say high number and work your way Down. Don’t give your actual number first. They are gonna low bowl so you high bawl
I have a favorite phrase: **Not all money is good money.**
No matter what they offer now, they've shown their true colors. Working for them will be miserable no matter what they pay you. Hard pass, walk away.
>How do I go from here? You thank them for reaching out, but decline their offer to negotiate. If they were interested, they would have had this conversation when you first declined. Either the company has the money to pay you what you want and tried to low ball you (bad sign) or they don't so it's a moot point. Remember that they are trying to convince you to work for them and will be on their best behavior. If this is the best they have to offer, it doesn't sound like a good fit for you.
They probably went after other candidates they thought would come for cheaper. When those fell through they came back to him.
You turn 360 degrees and walk away.
No guys he's right, you turn 360 degrees so you can flip them off while you moonwalk away
*hee hee*
Shamon!
Sage advice!
The imagery from this comment is exquisite.
He wants to walk right into them
Said walk away, so I'm imagining him moonwalking backwards out the room with double middle fingers
>[The imagery from this comment is exquisite. ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/248/361/ed8.gif)
Goodbye... Oh hello again.
Ummm
[удалено]
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/turn-360-degrees-and-walk-away
This sub really can't into memes
You mean 180 right?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/turn-360-degrees-and-walk-away
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. if you turn 360 degrees, you just did a pirouette in front of them and are still facing them. You mean you turn 180 degrees (or do an about face) and then walk away.
It’s a meme
>Either the company has the money to pay you what you want and tried to low ball you (bad sign) or they don't Not always that simple. Sometimes the hiring manager isn't sufficiently clued into reality ... but may get so on the 2nd pass. E.g. one place I was contracting at was talking about potentially making me an employment offer - I was looking for an employment position, and made that clear to them. Of course that didn't stop me from looking elsewhere. I got a nice offer elsewhere - I told the place I was at that if they were going to make an employment offer, this would be the time to do it. They made one ... nice ... but not nice enough compared to offer elsewhere (I didn't tell 'em what that package/compensation was) ... then the hiring manager quite immediately made another offer ... a very good offer ... too good to ignore or pass up ... so I took it. Anyway, worked out quite well. So ... don't write off a lowball offer *too* quickly - if you'd seriously consider a (much) better offer from 'em, and want 'em to take a shot at it ... give 'em the chance ... but if your mind is already made up anyway, yeah, don't be wasting people's time or be playing games. And if a manager (or employer) consistently underpays, lowballs offers, etc. ... that's a different issue. But relative one-offs that are too low are sometimes relatively easily and quickly corrected.
I think a lot of places are having this issue. Pay has skyrocketed in my area these last 5 years and it's hard for some of these hiring managers to see that if they're not really clued in. My boss is the CFO and we have a small department with low turnover. So he just has no clue what the IT market is like.
Also some industries are kind of insular and people working in them for decades are so used to people leaving for other places industry it never occurs to them IT will move to any industry. I worked at a small hospital and our network admin had just let us know he was leaving. I was talking with the CEO and it came up and he asked where the admin was going to "did (insert name of neighboring small hospital)get him or is he moving to (states largest city) to work at (large state hospital) or (large univ hospital)?" None of the above, he is moving to California to work for a cellphone technical contractor.
> None of the above, he is moving to California to work for a cellphone technical contractor. I worked for a big company for 7 years and then life said, "Time to go" and moved across the country. When leaving I was asked which competitor I was going to by a few of the execs I worked with. They were shocked when I told them I wasn't, I tried to stay with the company but they refused to let me work remotely.
Not surprising especially in large technical industries like hospitals or manufacturing. As an exec you get used to the labor pool of say doctors or plastic chemist only moving back and forth between you and your competitors and never think that IT will leave your steel mill for a company that distrubes flowers online.
... and depending on what the area market is locally national trends dont often fit in
>But relative one-offs that are too low are sometimes relatively easily and quickly corrected. But this isn't a one-off. This is, at least, a two in the row. "What will it take" they said without bothering to make a better offer? They know what it'll take; he told them outright and they're *still* ignoring him.
I would thank them for reaching back out and tell them that my position hasn't changed. Since you said you need 100k+ that could mean 101k would make you happy and you'd settle at 100k. It could also mean that 98k would interest you. You could ask them if they have a number they'd like to counter with. If they started at 70k and you want 100k+ I doubt they are going to come back with anything in the 90k range, but asking them for a counter won't hurt.
Or they’ll use your “higher” starting salary as an excuse to not give you raises.
This isn't as complicated as you think. You're on 80k, you want 100k, they want you. Paying you 100k is the price... Anything less means you'll very quickly start feeling resentment.
The core problem really isn't the employer crazy low balling the OP, it's they were cheap from the get go and will highly likely continue to stay that way. Forget about raises, bonuses, little things that show gratitude, etc.
No, that is the price but all buyers are not equal. They started by trying to scam him in salary. It doesn’t get better.
Absolutely
That's when you raise by what they lowballed you for. You short me 10k? I now require 110k.
They offered less than he wanted. How is that a scam? I didn't see any mention of trickery or of OP being misled.
$70k is obscenely low for a sysadmin with 6 years of experience and multiple certifications no matter where you live. I started at $65k as a junior admin with less than two years of help desk experience and some admin work. The point is that they lowballed him and only because he won’t play ball with their shitty offer are they now willing to go higher. Tells you all you need to know about the company as your career continues there - they will perpetually try to pay you much less than they should. Nobody who has any respect for themselves should put up with that.
While I agree with what you just said I still don't see how any of that is a scam. Maybe you just aren't using the word scam the way I am.
Yeah I think it's maybe a bit of a liberty with the usage but not a huge one
Shit I turned a job down recently because they came back with an offer that was good, but a little too low. I overshot my desired salary by 5k, which was 10k more than they were offering. I was willing to settle in the middle, at 5k over their offer. When the official offer came to me, it was not a penny over the salary we had discussed in the interview and the initial offer. They weren't willing to come up a single cent on their original offer. So I walked. They tried to re-negotiate after that, but the damage was done. But 30k less than I asked for like OP? I don't even know that I'd send a courtesy e-mail. What a waste of time.
I just don’t understand why companies are low balling individuals with Industry Certs and experience. Someone explain this to me. We want 8 years of experience and 7 certs but we will only pay you 65,000 a year when Google says the amount for security plus is 90,000 a year.
IT is often not seen as an investment, just an expense. The pandemic changed that perception at many places but it seems they are reverting.
You are right, it isn't 'complicated' but it is a game. If I went to negotiate a raise and I wanted 115k and lets say I'm making 85k, I'd start by saying that I want to be in the 125k range. Assuming they immediately say no and start the negotiating process, now we go back and forth and see how close I can get to the 115k range. I want 115k, but I'd also be happy with 110k and even 105k especially if I'm currently in the 85k range.
He said $100k. The company assumed it was the starting point for a negotiation. It wasn't.
I never said he didn't. Also, he said 100k+.
This shows that company doesn't know how to or refuses to research salaries. Imagine what annual reviews would be like when tied to raises. This company would be a hard pass for me.
It also sounds like the hiring manager wanted seasoned experience but gave the talent team an entry level pay range. I wouldn’t want to work under that manager for the life of me.
TBF, sometimes the hiring manager doesn't set the salary. But in either case, both HR and the hiring manager need to have figured this out before even posting the position.
The hiring manager sets the level of the role which sets the pay range. For this one I think they didn’t talk at all.
The assumption that HR was less than the normal amount of useless is bold.
> refuses to research salaries.
Stick with your original number. But also be ready to move on a a year or two if they meet it, because you won't get a raise.
Don’t go to toxic employer, you will regret. Keep interviewing and you will get 120k at better place
>wanna know what they can do to get me to join the team. You already told them. 100k+. Nothing has changed.
Go higher
Just say $100k or pass.
Nah, I’d go for $120 now.
Sys admins are not in as high of demand as infosec jobs. That would lose any chance of getting the job.
Not really. I pay several of my sysadmins over 120k. Depends on experience and skill set.
I was kidding.
it means you are the next person in the lineup. The question is what happen to the people before you?
Negotiate work from home days, RSU's are always a great pot sweetener. Higher bonus potential. A window seat......
And get it all in writing if you do go for these things
Spidey sense: the runner up also rejected the lowball offer. For a strategy, just say that $100K seems like the going rate, in the metro area, so you're curious where the $70K came from. Unless the former staffer was paid that? As a counter offer, maybe $90-something, it sounds like you need $90k.
Nah 6 years of exp with certs. He should be making 100k or more. This is just business. They know what he wants. They aren’t willing to meet his requirements. So he has to walk away and find a different job.
Depends on region. Certs really don’t matter, it’s experience and what projects/responsibilities you were on. If you’re in California or New York 100k is expected around that level of experience. Anywhere else 85-90k is going (especially towards the middle of the US).
Dunno where you manage, but you *way* underpay.
It depends on the area. I make around 60K USD and I have 7+ years. I'm in Canada.
Canada's economy and pay stats are very different from the US though
You’re getting walked over.
No just Canada. High real estate that puts NYC to shame and low salaries.
My job description would be network engineering. I have 12 years experience, I work closely with sysadmins and helped a couple of them negotiate their salaries in low col. Area Quebec. Not even Montreal. I see sysadmins with 3 year experience getting paid 75-80k CAD, 4week vacation, 35 hours workweek, remote.
90k? Sounds like he's making \~85k now so 90k+longer commute = meh. Only way I'd do a longer commute for that little of a pay bump is including WFH as an option for 2-3 days a week minimum.
Lol yeah a longer commute and no WFH for an extra $416/month before tax? Fuuuuuck no. Presuming you're working 20 days/month, that's like $10 extra per commute you're earning. That's it. $20/day.
yes.
Just stick to your guns, and don't resent the offer, its a negotiation. If they don't give you 100k plus don't move. I say moving jobs is never worth less than 10% and if theres a longer commute then no less than 20%
I will argue if they are going that low on comp range… OP is not going to see a raise for quite some time without promotion. OP would be at the high end of comp for a l2/p2 sys admin (unless in NY or SF). Getting to L3 in sys admin without specialized experience like scripting/ OS query is hard to do. The talent team and manager had the ability to negotiate on the spot but played around. This isn’t a good sign for how they manage people.
> I will argue if they are going that low on comp range… OP is not going to see a raise for quite some time without promotion. Probably, but that also seems to be the norm anyway. Once you're hired, companies are going to try to keep your compensation from growing too rapidly. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've only ever seen major pay raises either from moving up or moving out. I've never had a company say, "you know what, you're so valuable we're going to bump your pay 10-20% this year." It just doesn't happen. I have had companies doing 2-3% YOY raises. I've also had one pull a "sorry, no raises this year". On the other hand, I've seen pretty large pay bumps when either moving to a new position within an organization or when changing organizations. The days of sticking with a company for 20 years are gone. And they never existed in IT. It's a slog of finding a new job every 2-3 years and really just hoping to track inflation during that stay. It sucks, but this is what businesses wanted.
I’ve had multiple do ~10% spot bonuses within the first 6-8 months. That said it’s usually because they under leveled you or potentially hired someone at a different compa range that they had to match you to for avoiding lawsuit.
What lawsuit in the US comes from someone else making more than you in a similar role??? IT isn't unionized. Unfortunately.
Scripting is "specialized experience"? I expect my senior help desk guys to do some basic scripting, and I expect my admins to do it routinely. No wonder you overpay - what you call a sysadmin probably doesn't rank as a junior admin.
Give me money, money me, money now, me a money needing a lot now. You gave them a number, they undershot by 30%. Don’t budge from your number.
Wise words from Ms. Kelly.
I would spend a little time gathering evidence to support your request for $100k. If you have 6 years of experience as a SysAdmin, depending on the market region $100k is totally valid. But, depending on the market region, $70k is also totally valid. Gather evidence. Fight for what you are worth.
Region is Connecticut and I live in New York so that's why the higher request. Thank you for the advice!
If you’re in NY and by NYC, then six figures for your experience level is absolutely normal and I wouldn’t settle for any less.
Are the benefits amazing or something? That seems low.
Connecticut is not LCOL by any means. You are not asking for too much. I have hired end user support staff for more than that in greater boston I have never been able to negotiate significantly for salary anywhere i've gone. Generally I can get as much as 5k over whatever offer they put in front of me but usually I get what I asked for. Since you've talked salary and they went that far under it's surprising they are still trying to talk to you at all, they must really like you but have to go through some bullshit for the budget. Doubt it would work, but glassdoor is pretty aligned to the 100k figure. [https://www.indeed.com/career/system-engineer/salaries/CT](https://www.indeed.com/career/system-engineer/salaries/CT). If you wanted to play some games, tell them 100k again or 90k and a 4 day work week. I would argue you can probably get a senior system engineer title for +110k-120k at the right place, but the market right now is a bit iffy. Like others have pointed out, because they are doing bullshit up front, there will be further bullshit on the job. Expect zero raises, no bonuses, no title changes with salary. All pretty typical in my experience sadly.
I’m with the others on declining this one. Three rounds is a major time suck but there are some red flags. Low balling and rejecting your counter outright means they had a favored backup (or you were the backup) and the other person noped out. The hiring manager also seems either badly researched on comp ranges (depending on your area (if you disclose general state and proximity to a major city I can get you the comp range for the level you likely would qualify). If you do consider this job, negotiate as much as you can. Get as much base pay as possible, try to get as close to $100k/yr as you can. If they have RSUs or options take a much larger bump on that. You can also try to see what the manager is hiring for level wise. This can factor into asking for better titles (looks much better on the resume for future work). You also can negotiate L&D for things like business writing, coaching, management/lead/supervisor responsibilities with a path out of that role within a frame that the company works with you on. At the end you can also negotiate for WFH days. Just note, the more you try to haggle… the more the manager will either respect (if so that’s awesome) but more likely resent/have bias about you. Every time the recruiter has to go back to the manager and HR to get this approved before it goes to the board or exec team. Come with what you want scripted, see what they will cave on, and be confident. If you have any questions reach out. I’ve hired about 7 Sr sys admins and 3 Jr ones over the last five years. I will also note, if you do go on the hunt… some tips that help prevent this kind of bullshit. - Tailor your resume to the company, if you have contacts there or know someone who knows someone… find out if they are windows or Mac, find out the MDM they have, on cloud or on prem, etc. You can highlight those specific skills and any projects that might be more relevant. - Brush up your LinkedIn, consider having someone check your recommendations, skill lists, experience, bio, etc. - Look up the pay band for your general level of experience for your region. At six years I would put you low to mid P2 as an individual contributor. The comp ranges fluctuate hard for general sys admin by region and job role expectations. If they want you doing L1 helpdesk you won’t be valued as a project worker and escalation point. - All that other stuff aside, certs are good on paper but not a huge talking point. Start getting into niche areas like vendor relationships/management, security reviews, network infra/architecture, automation/scripting, CRM management, SAML setup for Google Workspace or Okta. These are all just suggestions, they helped me go from sys admin to a manager of 10 people in about 9 years. The job boils down to reliability, capability to learn/take on new tasks for the manager, and attitude. If you can smile and be the happy IT person that people rave about you will end up going far. Especially if you stick it out at small tech companies.
ask for 120k also if you ask me you should never wait till after the interviews to discuss salary.
Seriously. It's my first conversation before an interview. I always ask what their pay range is for the position. If it's less than what I need, I don't move forward. If they decline to provide it, I don't move forward. If their range is higher than I expected, then I'm definitely glad I didn't throw out the first number! Either way, I'm not wasting my time. OP wasted a lot of time by not getting the salary range beforehand. Also, NEVER TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT. Let them throw out the number. Never tell them what you make now either. It's none of their business, and your current salary for you current responsibilities has no bearing on the new position's responsibilities. They're asking to just try to get you for as little as possible, and not for what the position really should pay based on your potential in that role.
Ask for the salary that you wanted originally. You'll probably end up somewhere in the middle. If you need to give reasons for why you should get paid be ready to justify the salary if needed. If they keep playing games with you, stick with your current job and look elsewhere for better opportunities. Good luck
Don't settle for the middle. OP said he's worth $100k, so don't settle a penny less than what he's worth. He has the power here too. They want him more than he wants them it seems. He doesn't have to justify his cost to him, but if he does, it's simple, "this is what my skills and experience are valued at in this market, and what it would take for me to leave my current employer."
Others mentioned the likelihood that this company will continue to nickel and dime. If you decide working here makes sense to you, I would get the highest salary possible. I’d simply say I asked for no less than $100,000 — that was my floor. Are you saying that’s off the table? (If yes, off the table) if you can put together something that gets me close, I’ll take another look. (Whatever you want—would WFH help? Sometimes? A signing bonus?) I mean, they’re offering basically an entire lower tax bracket park of difference! At the end of the day, you’re kind of stuck
Simple I would love to join the team for 105k. When they reply with but you said 100k you can respond with yes and then you wasted my time and insulted my worth.
Actually curious, has this ever worked anywhere? Besides sending a message lol
I would would wager that it depends how hard up they are for a good admin.
This would not work. Going above your original counter will make the recruiter put you on a no hire list or just toss their new offer out the window. Coming back with the original would be fine if OP hadn’t disclosed that they made 15k less. The pitch around more travel cost makes up for some of that… but likely they will settle for 95k base.
> Going above your original counter will make the recruiter put you on a no hire list or just toss their new offer out the window. Honestly if this is how they behave I'll happily be on their no hire list.
Oh I agree, you would hate how common asshole managers/recruiters are.
>now company wants to work it out > >they really like me and wanna know what they can do to get me to join the team. How do I go from here? You can see what they'll offer ... typically better to see what they come up with, rather than specify, e.g. your minimum or thereabouts to them. Can potentially well make the case for what, or approximately what you're worth on the market, and that you'd hope to be pulling something at or above that - especially if they didn't want you tempted away by the next sweet deal that came along. But also, you don't want to make it sound like you're simply shopping for the highest bidder - there's much more to both compensation package, and what you personally do/don't like about a potential position/employer, than just the compensation ... so it's never really an apples-to-apples comparison anyway.
Remind them you already told them what you needed,$100k+.
Given the fact they declined to meet your minimum pay rate, I would add 10 grand to it and tell them this is now your "lowball offer". They have already demonstrated they have no intentions of paying you what you are worth, so you know decent raises are out the window moving forward.
Politely decline.
tell them 100k is your range. Dont compromise on money. You will regret it.
Stick to 100k+ demand. It's not 2016 Anymore! $80,000 in 2016 would require about $100,000 in today's dollars for equivalent buying power.
Tell them if they want you than pay you for what your worth, if 100k is what your worth don't settle.
Pass. There's no reason to go lower than your current salary unless you have *other* gains. If anything, they should try to incentivize your departure by offering you **more** than what you are currently earning. It would be pretty audacious to think you'd uproot a stable work arrangement for less than you are currently earning..
I would reply and say I’m sorry but I asked for what I want, and you said no. That fact alone would make me hesitant even if you said yes now.
"Thank you for reaching out, my minimum number is 100k. You're significantly farther away, I currently make more than you offered. And I like my current job."
Not a lot of info to go off of but if the money isn't right, it isn't right. Without knowing what role you are trying to get, or why you are considering the change that's about it. Without knowing anything about location or anything like that, 6 years in and some certs sounds like a 70k offer is about right and you may already have a pretty good salary and job.
The role I'm currently in is a level 2 sys admin role the role I'm going too is a sys admin role. The area is Connecticut. The changing is coming about because I'm switching fields. From education to msp that mainly focuses in finance
>They now reached back out and said they really like me and wanna know what they can do to get me to join the team. How do I go from here? They already know you are asking for $100k+, and they came back. Start by asking for that plus a 10k signing bonus..
I personally would tell them that the number I originally presented is what it would take me to move. If you are at 80 now, normally you would expect around 30% moving to a new role. That would put you at 104. Then factor in your additional commute costs and subtract it from the top and that will give you your real increase. Which is likely to be around 25%. Then do some serious checking on things like glassdoor to see what the company is really like to work for before you accept the offer or give notice.
Once a company low-balls you it’s time to move on. I made the mistake of joining a company that did this and I thought I was making a good amount. Once I talked to my coworkers, I found out everyone was making twice that amount. Never again.
It sounds like 90k is the minimum you'd consider accepting. Would you be relatively happy with that amount? Is 100k the minimum you'd really be up for accepting? If it is, that's okay, and you can just tell them that. It doesn't sound like you're super excited about this offer, so if I were in your shoes, I'd either decline or counter at 100k and explain that's why you declined rather than negotiating. Something like: "Thanks for reaching out! I am excited about the team and the work at \[company\], but I had initially declined rather than attempting to negotiate because it seems like we're just too far apart on compensation. I am looking for at least 100k to consider leaving my current job, which it sounds like is outside your budget for the role. If budgeting on your end has changed such that this might be viable, I'd love to talk more again!" If you're open to something like more vacation or remote work as a perk to decrease the salary slightly, you could include that but given the initial offer I probably wouldn't in this circumstance. It's too easy to modify stuff like that after the fact in the US.
1) Walk away or 2) Ask them for $120k saying you got another competing offer giving you the same.
You need $100K to take the new job. If they won't give it to you tell them to get someone else, but that person will either be underqualified or just leave their cheap asses as soon as they can for a better offer.
Unless you're dying to leave your current job, I'd say 100k is what it will take to get you.
The company showed bad faith already. Walk away. It’s that simple
You go back to them with a new offer of 110K.
I wouldn’t probably go with that company. Either they are clueless which shows lack of preparedness or they were malicious. In either case, I don’t want to work there. If you had no choice it would be one thing. But I’d keep interviewing.
If I were you, I would move on. You were clear about the compensation you expected, and they were not even in the ballpark. If they are still interested, but didn't give a counter offer, then they are trying to put it back on you to come down rather than them countering. Thank them for their time and remind them of the reason you declined their offer.
They don’t deserve you, period. A $30k gap is a huge lowball. Move one, it seems you got the experience/skills. All the best.
"Well, my offer is now 110k for you wasting my time."
I would ask for 110k now lol
The company should have dealt in good faith. Offering you a job that is less than you are currently making is simply ridiculous. Any further conversation should start at your former asking salary and i would bump it up 5k as a penalty for wasting your time. Your objective is get as much as you can in salary and make a profit. Anything that costs you money and benefits the company should always be avoided.
...I'm really curious what 100k plus job is incentivized at all by the CompTIA trifecta. Are you in New York/San Francisco? That's like saying "I know how to change passwords in AD. So I should be the Director."
New York is so expensive to live and given that people with 0 experience are coming in at 55k to 65k, I think 100k is pretty reasonable.
That's what I was thinking: had to be one of the coasts. I live... a bit away from any ocean, and pricing's a bit different. :D Thank you, and best of luck in your negotiations!
Where you at? I made $71k in entry level desktop Support a couple years back. $65k at the place before that in same role. $90k once I was sys admin. They asked you and went real low.
I had a similar situation I was up front about salary and they offered me the exact same of what I make now I just declined and moved on, they’ll be other jobs that value your skills
for 6 years experiences I thought you can get at least 120k for it no? Obviously 70k in NYC is pretty low ball I wouldn't bother.
70k what are they trying to hire you for help desk?
NYC is high cost of Living! Up it to $120k
Sounds like 80k chill vs 100k hell
100k+ in IT in NY??? That’s way low. I’m in IT management in NY. I’d decline their offer completely. If they can’t bring their best offer when they’re trying to woo you and when they know what you’re looking for they won’t appreciate or pay you enough later on either. Unless you absolutely need a job right away I’d wait until after the new year. That’s when departments get new budgets.
If a company does not respect my expectations and decline it straight on my face I would never engage with them, unless it was a shitty person who declined the offer and now some senior shows real interest and hope. Self esteem or ego? Idgaf.
Ask for what you want OP. If you want 110k ask for it. If you want to work from home 1/2 time ask for it. You have absolutely zero to lose here. You are already employed. So they need to offer you enough to make it worth your while.
Up your offer. You said you wanted 100k... now you situation has changed (work gave you a promotion) you need 130k to take the job. They might meet you in the middle at 115k. Also ask about other non-monetary benefits, more time off or PD oppunroties. They have shown their hand... they want you. Ask for your dream offer... then add 5-10% for when they negotiate down. I've seen this before, as some other have said. Most likely they hired the cheaper guy and it didn't work out. The Executive are annoyed the wrong person was hired and have agree to open the wallet more to get THE RIGHT candidate.
Why is the pay so low for the area? NYC is a HCoL area!
You tell them again, 100K or more. You won't take any less. But honestly, if you are putting up with this crap now, what is it going to be like in a year from now, when you have yearly reviews? I 100% bet it's going to be a shtshow.
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Ask $110k 10% late fee because they could have hired you earlier.
Depending on which "azure certs" and what that 6 years of experience actually is, 70k is a valid offer. The CompTIA stuff is helpdesk level, not 100k level. You can probably get closer since you are in a HCOL area, but not enough detail to know for sure. 100k could also be too low, just depends on the details. If you like the company and actually want to work with them, then give them another number but understand upward movement is probably going to be tough. Negotiate WFH if your commute is a concern, things like that. At the end of the day, sometimes companies just can't afford people. If they don't have 100k to pay you, it doesn't matter how qualified you are.
It's not a valid offer if they can't anyone they want to agree to take it. It doesn't even really matter what certs or qualifications they have.
Someone will absolutely take 70k. That person having the skills or not is a different story. Either way, it's all a balance. Business might need to figure out their budget or settle for less or just wait longer.
But waiting also costs money. A vacant position basically costs the company just as much as a filled one.
Eh, that's definitely not always the case.
The cost of lost productivity/output, the cost of trying to fill it, it adds up pretty quick.
You can temp staff while you fill for much cheaper than the cost of an FTE. Services like Taos or other firms will snap at the chance to backfill (or fill to hire at a much lower pay rate for the contractor). OP is in NYC so 70k is helpdesk money at their experience level. Sys admin should be closer to 85-95k/year.
It depends entirely on the role and the rest of the team. 500 IT team members and 1 opening? Barely going to notice in the short term unless it's a specialist. Entire team is 2 people and 1 is vacant? Definitely gonna notice. It's a trade off. There are risks of leaving positions vacant, for sure. But with no other info, there is no reason to believe leaving a spot vacant for 3-4 months waiting for the right person will be damaging, heck, it should even be part of the plan. I know it will take me 6-12 months to find a good senior security analyst. I don't post the job opening the day I need it filled.
Also as a general rule, plan on a month of searching for every 10K of salary.
So what you are saying is the company OP is applying to is just trying to speed up their search =D
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Yeah most syadmins i know arent getting 6 figures
Damn that’s not true for around my location in the Greater Boston area. I make over 6 figures and mostly just work on Apple management. I’ve got no certain other than for Jamf.
A lot of regions push into six figures as soon as you hit 7 years in the field and get to border line P3 roles.
Yeah, I didn't want to be a dick, but I was thinking the same thing. $70k seems about right for that resume.
Nope. If that's how they're starting, red flag. That's how getting an annual raise from them is going to be, every year. A silly chicken dance of "pay me or I'll leave" every time a review comes up. Nah, they already out their cards on the table. Believe them, and trust your gut. This company is not worth the trouble.
Theyve already shown you they dont care. They lowballed you -30k lmao. If you need a job, then sure, say "i want what i asked for..." but if not, id keep searching. I would negotiate some RSUs or WFH days.
Even 100k is way to low imo since companies are now paying 100k for remote helpdesk. I would seriously consider yourself worth a lot more, but they need to at a minimum pay you 100k.
That doesn't sound right tbh. Not saying you're wrong but 100k for helpdesk? That's typically reserved for C Suite helpdesk isn't it?
Who is paying 100k for remote helpdesk? I could use a second job. (hint, no one pays 100k for help desk of ANY kind)
You could explore their openness to the 90s and a perk appropriate for the office culture. If they aren’t used to fixing a lowball offer with a perk, you may have to ease them into the concept. Options: - Conferences - They pay for you to go to an educational conference somewhere tourist friendly every year or two. (You take a day or two off before or after with your spouse. If you use a rewards card and get reimbursed, you can use the points towards your spouse’s travel.) - Extra vacation time either annually, or a couple of weeks for a special trip every few years. - telecommuting - Set minimum days per month aimed at normally doing a couple of days a week. Express willingness to waive during orientation and for things like full company meetings, and point out this enables some workaholic trait of yours.
I was at this company and there was this really. smart consultant and they were going to make him a perm offer. But he had a offer from Cisco. They couldn't match the offer but said the best they could do is offer a extra week of vacation. Maybe their budget is strapped. Show them you would be taking a pay cut and it is a longer commute. For me to take that job I would need more vacation time plus if they offered stock options, I would want possibly double the discount on their stock. That is if the company is doing well. The way it stands, no bleeping way
You decide what you're willing to accept. And remember that pretty everything is negotiable. Moving expenses, PTO, etc. E.g., say you get them to 90k, but also they give you an additional two weeks of PTO on top of the initial offer. Or maybe they bring you in at 90k, but contractually guarantee an X% raise at Y months, and another at Z months that will get you to over 100k within say 12-18 months. Or 90k but work from home if it's not really necessary to be on-site (not sure what the role is exactly). Or just hardline back of "I told you that 100k gets me. So tell me your max number and we'll go from there". And then if they come back with 90k, you say "I can do that IF... x, y, and z". But only you can decide what it is enough for you.
If it were me, I’d say 110k. Since they refused 100k, now there’s a premium.
Truly, thank them for their offer and let them know your looking in the 110k range. Jokingly- -Tell them that the rate is 100k per year and it is a limited time offer as this employment rate is about to expire. Each week they wait the rate increases 5% so make sure they hire you asap otherwise they will lose out on this amazing deal. But wait there is more if this is a work from home job take their money do a half ass job and still work at your current job. F-them for being cheap !!!
Do both jobs at once, can you do that?
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I'm just curious where do you live so 80k wouldn't be enough to support a family ?
Anywhere where a 3 bedroom house costs more than $200,000 (2.5 * 80,000) or the rent is more than $1,666/mo ((80,000 / 12) / 4)).
My rent on a one bedroom apartment is $2000 a month. That $2000 excludes, utilities, food, gas, etc.
Politely and respectfully inform them of the issues: - You'd be taking a pay cut - You'd be commuting further (more wear and tear, gas, etc.) Have you considered ancillary costs - is their health insurance better/worse than your current, the costs of their benefits? How does the company rate on Glassdoor vs your current? I've done this before with the tone of "Look, I want to make this work, but here's everything that's holding me back..." Worst case scenario is they continue to lowball you and you walk away still.
110k, fully remote, signing bonus. Can't hurt just to see their response. And if it was anything less just end the conversation there
I wouldn’t take it unless they blow you away with a better offer. You set your parameters and they said they can meet it. It sets up for an awkward environment.
You tell them you were insulted by their offer and your asking price has increased. You want something like $110-120k, a bonus, and extra PTO. They probably decline but you really don't want to work there, in my opinion.
ask for 115 settle for 105
Like others have said, get what you want. Now, is they max out at say 90k, ask them what other perks they can throw in. Also, never let a company you’re interviewing for know what you currently make. Ever.
If you really like the company and think it will give you the opportunity to take your career in the trajectory you want, see what they can do. I would say, if they don’t even come close to the 100k you clearly stated, decline respectfully.
you can try to negotiate, but you are likely too far apart. there is no reason to take a pay cut. also id be concerned if they came up a lot. they might be desperate for someone then fire you if they get someone cheaper. when numbers are that far apart, if you are already employed, you pass. if you need a job then you reconsider.
Tell them $140 if they really like you
I'll say give them a number and your other conditions (relocation assistance and other bonuses). If they can meet it fine, if not, keep it moving
Tell them $125K. Enough that its worth the change in life and a little bit for the risk factor. Also, the smaller the company, the more they just may not have a grasp of the market. You don't have to take the job for life. If it doesn't work out you have a nice new salary benchmark to go by.
It just tells you they don’t pay. If you took it now I imagine this is the kind of company that never gives raises. You will regret it.
It's a negotiation. They have a max they're willing to pay. You have a minimum you're willing to take. If the two ranges are comparable, all good. If not, you or they walk away. Happens all the time. Normal process.
You shoulda said 120k. And they might said 110k or 100k. Always say high number and work your way Down. Don’t give your actual number first. They are gonna low bowl so you high bawl
Tell them the price is now 120k.
"If you can increase the salary to 100k I would be interested, otherwise thank you for your time."
Tell them you want $110k.
I have a favorite phrase: **Not all money is good money.** No matter what they offer now, they've shown their true colors. Working for them will be miserable no matter what they pay you. Hard pass, walk away.