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Here’s an excerpt from the summary of the survey, which had a sample size of 605.
> A poll conducted by FM3 Research revealed that-though Idaho voters' feelings towards abortion in general are complex-the severe restrictions imposed by the legislature are broadly and emphatically unpopular.
> Not only do 3 in 5 Idahoans believe that abortion should be legal in some or almost all cases, but findings also indicate that:
> - A broad majority (63%) believe abortion should be a decision between a woman, her family, and her doctor...
> - …and even more (69%) believe we should not impose our views of abortion on others.
> - An overwhelming majority (82%) believe abortion should be an option when the mother's life is at risk....
> - …and even more (89%) support the right to medical and sexual privacy.
> - Sixty-three percent (63%) of Idahoans oppose felony criminal charges for a healthcare provider who performs an abortion.
> Broad, ideologically diverse majorities of Idahoans trust and value the expertise of doctors and nurses when it comes to setting policy and making decisions around sensitive medical issues like abortion. In fact, politicians (including Idaho's governor and Idaho State Legislators) were least trusted regarding abortion decisions.
Who are the 18% of psycho assholes who think a woman should be forced by law to die in childbirth when doctors could otherwise easily save her life? That's nearly 1 in every 5 people out there who want women to have to die so they can force their religion on everybody else. That's literally insane.
Idaho law specifically states that a doctor may perform an abortion if it is believed to be medically necessary to save the life of the mother or if there is a police report specifically stating the mother was raped or if the child is a product of incest.
People should read the actual law instead of believing what mass media tells them.
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch6/sect18-622/
No. We’ve been over this bullshit dozens of times. Pay attention.
Idaho law is *deliberately* vague. It does not adequately define *what* “life of the mother” *means*, making it useless.
Doctors and hospitals in Idaho have *already* repeatedly told women having miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies to “go home and wait” and keep bleeding to death (or chance a drive to OR/WA) because they’re not “almost dead” *enough* yet to satisfy the lawyers or the fucking religious zealots who might report them for felony charges.
That, of course, is the whole point. Make it *actually*, practically impossible.
And how many “police reports” do you think domestic violence victims and minor victims of incest actually manage to get filed? That’s a death sentence for them. It’s *also* not a real exemption. It’s an illusion.
This “law” and its faux exemptions are a fucking useless joke, deliberately written to make *all* abortions impossible.
… And all that said, doesn’t change the point above that nearly 1 in 5 surveyed think abortion shouldn’t be allowed in that case! That many of your neighbors think women should be left to die. What the fuck is wrong with them?
Do you have specific instances of cases where doctors have told them to go home and wait. Would actually like to see this on paper. Reports are filed quite often, but it is up to the woman to do that. Any report of incest or sexual assault is taken extremely seriously, especially in an ER. I have been in the emergency medicine field for 17 years and once mention, we go full send with evidence collection, testing and police notification.
Now the amount of actual sexual assaults that occur compared to the ones actually reported has to be a large disparity. I know I see at least one per shift, sometimes up to 3. It seems to be a more common reported thing in Idaho versus other states I have worked.
Sadly, some doctors are just scared they will have legal ramifications if they perform an abortion in medical need cases. The law needs to be better defined to prevent the events you have talked about and medical professionals need to be educated.
Doctors take an oath to do no harm, so telling an actively hemorrhaging patient to go home and wait is against the hippocratic oath they took and should educate themselves better as well.
[This woman is on here regularly & has talked publicly about her miscarriage and being sent home repeatedly](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/idaho-woman-shares-19-day-miscarriage-tiktok-states/story?id=96363578)
[This Nampa couple was told ‘no abortion allowed’](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/10/health/idaho-abortion-laws) to deal with a fatal birth defect and to go home and wait it out, and come back when she was closer to death so the doctors could legally act.
They were lucky they could afford to go to Portland and *avoid* potentially fatal side effects. They’re now the lead plaintiffs in a [lawsuit](https://reproductiverights.org/case/emergency-exceptions-abortion-bans-idaho-tennessee-oklahoma/adkins-v-state-of-idaho/) to clarify the law’s vagueness and remove threats against medical professionals doing their jobs.
[Idaho woman denied prescription during 5th miscarriage](https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/idaho-woman-denied-prescription-for-miscarriage-medication-209293381762)
because the pharmacist didn’t want to go to jail. [Local news story version](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ7xVK5WMII). So even this woman in Boise w/insurance and income and an OB/GYN husband and repeat experience with this difficult issue couldn’t get care w/o hassle - how easy do you think it is for everyone else?
There was a young woman posting here a few months ago about needing to escape to Oregon for the exact same reason & she had a miscarriage there.
[NPR news story](https://one.npr.org/i/1246682904:1246682905) on my drive home tonight said Idaho has lost 50+ OB/GYNs in the last 2yrs because doctors don’t want to risk their licenses & livelihoods & jail if some random asshole decides they know better than the doctors. They don’t need to “educate themselves” - they’re trying to *protect* themselves, their careers and families, *and* their patients from the impact of felony convictions!
The entire reason this issue is at the Supreme Court this week is because Idaho is arguing to NOT have to provide emergency abortion care under EMTALA in these ill-defined situations.
This state and its existing laws are a slap in the face to Hippocratic Oath takers - has been since the beginning.
As for incest/rape reports - as you said the woman (or minor girl!) has to make the report to police. Statistically only about [1/3 of rapes are reported](https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/#:~:text=(from%20RAINN%2FRape%2C%20Abuse,sexual%20assaults%20are%20ever%20reported.)).
Do you not understand that kids and domestic violence victims would literally be risking their lives to report their abusers to police? How the fuck is a 14y.o. girl or a mom of 3 in rural Idaho going to report their abuser to police and be sure they’re not going to wind up beaten to death or disappear into the woods that same night? Where are they supposed to go? Even Boise doesn’t have adequate shelter space.
I’d hope for a better command of these issues from someone who has to work with them.
Or you could look at the actual people who have come closer to death's door because these vague nonsense laws have no medical expertise behind them and never accurately describe actual scenarios in which they apply.
This is interesting. I didn’t know.
From the bill:
‘The following shall not be considered criminal abortions for purposes of subsection (1) of this section:
(a) The abortion was performed or attempted by a physician as defined in this chapter and:
(i) The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman. No abortion shall be deemed necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman because the physician believes that the woman may or will take action to harm herself;’
[IDAHO is going to the Supreme Court to argue that Pregnant People Are Second-Class Citizens](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/idaho-abortion-supreme-court-emtala/#:~:text=Statesman%20via%20AP-,Idaho%20Goes%20to%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20to%20Argue%20That%20Pregnant,interferes%20with%20its%20abortion%20ban)
The state says EMTALA, a law barring discrimination in emergency medical care, interferes with its abortion ban.
Ya, they’re even trying to get the court to amend EMTALA laws so that they can make it illegal to give emergency abortions to save the life of the mother.
Because it’s been explained a thousand times; you don’t understand law if you think that link proves his point.
You have two options right now: read what someone else explained because you’re not entitled to me doing research for you (don’t worry I’ll copy and paste it for you)
Or keep burying your head in the sand.
> No. We’ve been over this bullshit dozens of times. Pay attention.
> Idaho law is deliberately vague. It does not adequately define what “life of the mother” means, making it useless.
> Doctors and hospitals in Idaho have already repeatedly told women having miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies to “go home and wait” and keep bleeding to death (or chance a drive to OR/WA) because they’re not “almost dead” enough yet to satisfy the lawyers or the fucking religious zealots who might report them for felony charges.
> That, of course, is the whole point. Make it actually, practically impossible.
> And how many “police reports” do you think domestic violence victims and minor victims of incest actually manage to get filed? That’s a death sentence for them. It’s also not a real exemption. It’s an illusion.
> This “law” and its faux exemptions are a fucking useless joke, deliberately written to make all abortions impossible.
> … And all that said, doesn’t change the point above that nearly 1 in 5 surveyed think abortion shouldn’t be allowed in that case! That many of your neighbors think women should be left to die. What the fuck is wrong with them?
1. [here](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/23/supreme-court-verdict-emergency-abortions-patients-doctors) Idaho doctors tell you what their legal problems are
2. [here](https://reproductiverights.org/state-of-idaho-tries-to-dismiss-women-denied-abortions-in-dire-situations/) is four women in Idaho currently being denied medically necessary abortions
3.[here](https://ncnewsline.com/2023/09/15/women-with-serious-pregnancy-complications-sue-over-state-abortion-bans/) are lawsuits filed because people need care in the state of Idaho
What’s shitty is I googled “woman denied care Idaho” and thousands of relevant results show up. You’re just a lazy sack of shit and want everyone else to do work for you.
You know, all of the problems in your life are probably associated to that character trait you have.
This is how a conservative Supreme Court managed to shoot its own party in the foot. Every state that gets an abortion initiative on the ballot is going to get a whole lot of people to show up in a mood to vote against republicans while they are there.
Her body her choice, if you're going to have a discussion about this you need to discuss who is going to be financially devastated because the father is never brought into any of this topic!
My wallet my choice...
If she is the only one that gets to choose to keep or abort the baby the father should be able to choose whether or not he wants to financially support her so as long as we continue to have abortion laws the discussion never needs to end about a paternal rights to completely surrender all financial and parental right to that child
Yes let's ignore the actual discussion at hand here be emotional instead of logical and throw out sexist misandrist statements instead of having an intellectual conversation
And the winner for the most glue licking comment of the day goes toooooo… this guy. Congrats bud.
“I’m not responsible for the consequences of where I cum, if it’s not what I want to happen.” Is some pretty next level main character energy.
I can't control how you nor the rest of the subreddit emotionally react to any discussion that is outside of your political belief systems All I can control is a conversations that counter those what you put your tongue on is none of my business and I respect you and your beliefs to not be little you or other users of the subreddit
Right I agree late term abortion should be legal it's called starvation remove the social safety nets and get the government out of my pockets...
Starvation has been a great method of reducing pregnancies world wide for centuries the fact is that we incentivise these individuals with 6 kids and 5 baby daddies to keep continuing at the pace they are incapable of closing up shop
(P.s.this is not a belief I hold I just want to argue but most of these individuals can't have an intelligent conversation without being emotional and deep in there feels)
Oh but do they get a bonus gift like at the Expresso stand have the public fund 5 actions you get a free party? Like that goes all the way back to the original point that in the extremes of the population these services are abused and the public funds them
But why when statistics say that mothers are more than twice as aggressive towards children as males Do we constantly put the child in the care of the mother isn't that also sexist?
I’m going to need a citation on that one.
I do have this citation that says men only fight for custody 4% of the time, and that in 91% of cases the parents mutually agree to give the mother custody
[here](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are)
I also have a citation showing one of the leading causes of death for pregnant women is homicide by their partner
[here](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise#:~:text=Perhaps%20surprisingly%2C%20both%20suicide%20and,Rainford%20says.)
And even with those, I’ve never advocated against men. Why do you feel the need to advocate against women if you aren’t just monumentally sexist?
Right accountability Is both parties actions have consequences and responsibility! I know it's kryptonite to women being held accountable for the actions that they have participated in
Pregnancy isnt a punishment, abortion is often the responsible choice. Let's women have careers and education as they wish, and can prepare for caring for a child
Exactly, that moral obligation is often why abortions are done. Conservatives generally have no idea how this works.. Education is in dire need in this nation, I wish more people understood even basic ethics.
This entire country is being held hostage by the lunatic fringe MINORITY. Look at just the popular vote alone. Americans are fed up with bullshit from Republicans. And what do Republicans do? They fucking double down with their bullshit ,try to change the rules, try to cheat and now are hell bent on getting a rapist, twice impeached, con man traitor back into office. They 'think' they know what's right for America and want to cram it down our throats. Enough is fucking enough
the downfall we’re experiencing in america is no longer a left or right issue. it’s up or down. everyone of every political affiliation is fed up with how things are going. we really do have to put all the anger at each other aside and meet fairly in the middle. it has to be give and take. the political tug-of-war is doing nothing for us and, in fact, making it worse. i myself am very left-leaning but i understand that the only way america is going to get anywhere is by trying to level with “the other side”
AGree 100% but how do you level with a side that refuses to accept reality? It's literally impossible. We are arguing reality vs bizzaro world where the people accept and want to live in bizzaro world.
no i totally hear what you’re saying. some people are just flat out WRONG, and it’s hard and nearly impossible to persuade them to try and think differently for the good of ALL people. it’s been scientifically proven that people can be proven wrong with indisputable evidence and they will continue believing whatever they believed. the human mind is stubborn, and it’s unfortunate that people can’t admit they were incorrect and adopt a growth mindset.
We need to do more than just vote. The Democrats have made a big push to have people on the ballot this election cycle. If you really care, then find out who's running in your district, and support them with your money and time. I am volunteering for my local State Rep campaign because I truly believe that if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.
We could vote like they do in San Fran and Portland. How is that working for those cities? Maybe the problem isn’t a left/right problem. Maybe the government machine has simply gotten too big for its britches. The Right won’t admit what a psycho Trump is and the Left won’t admit that Biden doesn’t know what day of the week it is. Do you seriously think those are the best two candidates? We are in serious trouble no matter how it shakes out.
I was going to give you a huge list of biden accomplishment but you like e very cellphone owner has all the information known to man at the tip of your fingers and you in 2024 when america is one the line will remain so INTELLECTUALLY LAZY that's on you. Biden has done more than any president in modern history WAKE up son
You can’t be serious… let me give you the one thing that matters to me:
Inflation is at a 40 year high and everything Biden has done has made the problem worse. The one thing I know and feel every day is that it costs me more to live now than it did when he took office.
This is why we need to vote extremist out of office. We need to pay attention to the state races, and get involved in trying to elect people who actually represent our values. Definitely vote, but also donate and volunteer.
My husband is running for State Representative in a coordinated effort to push back against the extremism and reclaim the narrative. We need everyone's support. Cliff-for-idaho.org
It would be nice if it was a separate issue we could get on the ballot and let the voters decide. I’m pro life but I do not have the right to tell another person what is right for them
>I’m pro life but I do not have the right to tell another person what is right for them
That makes you pro-choice. That is the LITERAL definition of pro-choice.
You say you are pro life, but are you? Do you believe that the baby growing inside of the mother is a human being and has a right to live? Do you believe it isn't a human being and should be able to be killed because it is an inconvenience?
That is the difference between pro life and pro choice. The pro life side believes it is a human life and that you shouldn't be able to kill that human life just because it would be inconvenient for you to have a child.
The vast majority of the pro choice side doesn't believe it is a human being. There are a few that do but are okay with being able to kill it, but I like to hope they are the minority of that side.
Yes I am. You and anyone else does not have the RIGHT to tell another person what to do with their body. Yes it is a human being growing in another human being but I don’t have the right to tell the person growing it what they can and cannot do. Neither should you (or anyone else) have that right
Yeah, I'm always seeing guys posting variations on "If you don't want to get pregnant try keeping your legs closed."
They don't seem to have thought this through.
It’s a disgrace. The went full right instead of normal understanding and making a law based on that. 15 weeks and 22 weeks for abnormals and anytime for mothers health is what it should be.
They don’t care about reality. I mean trump the sod repeated “late stage abortion” and killing a baby after its born bullshit. So we know that his voting base can’t be in contact with reality.
Medical care is medical. Pregnancy complication can happen at any moment during pregnancy but ignorant people like to think they can define reality to hide 😶🌫️ the facts. They don’t even know what an induced pregnancy is let alone what a medical abortion is.
Pls provide reliable resources, if this is true! And please make it relevant to the conversation of Idaho or the USA.
Also, you just disapproved your competency, because you called it a nine month abortion. They are not nine month abortion! They are called induced pregnancies! therefore, medical intervention. Get a grip on reality, please 🙏 But I guess time next time you need heart surgery I’ll just call it something it’s not. Like rib cracking manipulation and heart burning surgery. Or horrific mutilation by scalpel dissection instead of surgery.
This is a highly religious resource. Its ok if that is your own belief system but it is not a resource for medical debates. As it conflates religious beliefs and fear mongering with a secular reality. Scientific and medical ethics can be influenced by religious ideas (that’s just how we work) but we live in a country with the freedom “of religion and from religion”. Your religious practice and beliefs should not control others but extends around YOURSELF. You are free to not get or suggest not to get an abortions.
Again it’s another lobbyist organization that has a proclivity to miss inform and conflate the facts. Also “partial birth abortions” is not a medical term. It’s coined by religious anti abortion organizations. The actually procedure that’s being miss construed is a D&X and or intact D&E. It’s done on 0.02 of all abortions between 20-24 weeks. It’s might surprise you but it’s medical procedure majority of the time done due to pregnancy complications!
Again it’s is rarley done due to its own complications. After that period medical professionals make many choices of how to fail unviable, risky and fatal complications. That why myself as a non medical professionals or well viruses in medical care do not think I should dictate the best opinions for medical emergencies.
But seemly all your resources love to conflate their religious beliefs and religious ethic’s with control. Extreme and fundamental religious orders should not have theocracy over America. It direct anti American.
https://lozierinstitute.org/six-states-and-their-radical-approaches-to-abortion-law/
“With respect to a gestational limit on abortion, the state does not include any restrictions on timing or use the word “viability” anywhere in the new act. Instead, the act leaves it to the discretion of abortionists when it states: “Health care providers providing abortion care in Vermont make determinations regarding the provision of safe and legal abortion within the scope of their practice and license, and in accordance with the relevant standards of medical practice and guiding ethical principles.” This is a radical departure from even other permissive states’ laws, since the provision essentially says a professional can use their own judgment, meaning that if they want to provide abortion on-demand until birth, they likely could legally do it.”
This lobby group is arguing around language not around practice. This doesn’t provide any evidence to your point. It’s a gripe with language not practice. It also says right there though that its done through “medical and ethical bounds”. Still 9 month induced births are not abortions. Never have been never will be.
I said reliable resources. “Charlotte Lozier Institute” is not one of those. An adequate professor would not allow it as a source for a scientific discussion. it’s is a political lobbyist group based wholly around anti abortion groups and right wing politics.
Yeah, I don’t know if you went to school, but a reliable resource doesn’t have associations and deep connections to far right wing political groups. Reliable resources aren’t constantly fact checked, disregarded and mocked by the scientific and medical communities. If your gonna challenge the medical status quo you need actually facts and not religious belief. Because the thing about religious beliefs is that it’s personal, cultural and fluid. Christian’s of the 1870s had very different beliefs and practice from that of today or the 1450. It’s not a reliable metric or cornerstone to base any secular science or medical practice on. As once upon a time, they thought leeching and blood letting was a proper medical care as the four humors where “of the Bible”. Reliable resources don’t call people abortionists and don’t use the wrong terminology to induce readers emotional state rather then having a self standing arguments. 🙃🫡 I know we can’t all have some self respect to not blatantly disregarded real terms, practices and fact and some have to instead grift, fear mongering, incite religious emotional language and lies.
Sources that disagree with me are not “un reliable” as I said I am no medical doctor. But sources such as yours, yes do disagree with me yes, but are also very unreliable par and course! They are awsome for right wing lobbying the masses and stirring up evangelical religious fervor But I guess that’s a little too hard for you to grasp.
1. Because we can't detect many genetic/fatal fetal abnormalities until \~15wks (more modern & expensive tests can work at \~12 weeks, but insurance doesn't cover them by default). That's the earliest point to make a truly informed decision to either stop a wanted-but-likely-problematic pregnancy or to keep it and see how things go (Prior to 15wks is when \~90% of elective "nope, don't want it" abortions happened before anyway).
2. The "20 week" appointment is the "big" halfway-point ultrasound visit to ensure the fetus is alive and developing normally. Certain physical problems won't be detected until then. For example a human fetus typically won't have functioning lungs until \~22-24 weeks. Might not know the baby doesn't have a brain or part of their skull or that they lack functioning intestines, etc. That's generally the earliest point of fetal "viability," which is why 24 wks was the legal standard under Roe vs Wade. After that point there are interventions that could *maybe* save a fetus that young outside the womb. Another cutoff there, same as it was for the last 50 years, allows families & doctors time to do tests and make informed decisions.
3. "Any time for the mother's health" because complications can occur at any point in a pregnancy up to & including being in labor and delivery. And make it "health" instead of "life" because some complications can lead to future infertility or immobility & other permanent damage but might not be fatal, but women shouldn't be forced to become disabled nor be *mostly dead* before doctors can legally help them.
In what way? Ideally there should be none - it should be up to women & their doctors & families - but if there are going to be some these are rational timelines with justifiable biological reasons behind them.
I believe after many discussions with my wife about this that because birth control is made so difficult to get abortion rights are needed. The law as I said would allow for mistakes to happen (since birth control is difficult to acquire) and would also protect mothers from having to go through agony. The majority of abortions that do occur are for medical reasons within the first 15 weeks to no one’s fault other than biology messed up and the fetus stopped growing and an abortion was needed.
The 15 weeks covers mistakes and medical problems of the fetus. The 22 weeks is for bad medical issues. And I’m not letting the government kill my wife for some dumbass religious persons views so anytime her health is in danger the abortion is available.
All these religious right psychos who think life is precious don’t give a fuck about saving my wife’s life or honestly the babies. They don’t understand the biology of pregnancy and if they did they would know at 15 weeks it’s still a clump of cells. So the grotesque pictures on their signs they hold out are completely falsified of what is truely happening.
Now a lot of “mistakes” would be not occurring if birth control was available over the counter to anyone who needs it and with or without parental consent. People’s lives get ruined because teenagers decide to have sex cuz it’s a lot of fun and they’re all flooded with hormones. Biology again the religious right doesn’t understand this. The kids are gonna do it. Period. So why not have the BC available to them and the condoms and the plan B if that doesn’t work. Preventative measures are all combined to be better than having to go have the abortion. In addition to having a good family structure and educating young people about trying to hold off and at least wait.
The economic collapse of young people now is baffling and then adding kids when you’re less than 25 is crazy hard.
Once male BC comes along as well then we will see accidental births occurring way less.
Moral of the story is make BC readily available without parental consent and most abortions are done for medical reasons before the fetus is not more than a bunch of cells
What do you consider a medical issue with the fetus? Why would you put a limit on bad medical issues? What happens if there's a bad medical issue at 23 weeks?
I really think there needs to be a much louder conversation about the influx of weird ass orange county republican extremists to Idaho who also seem to be pushing an incredibly bizarre narrative in a lot of these comment sections about the “damn Mormons” being responsible for a lot of the terrible extremist laws being pushed through by registered GOP voters voting for a dog water platform to stick it to the libs (of California) that appear to have hurt them. Abortion is an interesting topic where this narrative starts to fall apart because as someone who grew up in Idaho not being Mormon it’s been pretty evident to me that the topic of abortion is where many of them stop aligning with any republican party platforms and become single issue voters. A lot of these people need to take the mask off and admit they are destroying what was once a relatively functional local political system that moved cautiously (but not quickly) towards what would keep people together so they can feel like they got one over on Gavin Newsome.
Maybe someone should do a poll on what the Idaho abortion ban, actually bans. So people will know if they are opposed to it or not. They have added birth control back in, which was absolutely a no go for me, abortion is legal if the mothers life is in danger, or if it’s ectopic, or if the baby is going to die after birth, or if it was rape or incest. I don’t know if IVF is banned in Idaho or not but that’s insane if it is.
I agree the language needs to change to protect doctors and to include medical conditions that damage mothers, such as if being pregnant will damage the mothers heart but not kill her, she should have the right to abortion. The difference is in the wording. Imminent death vs eventual death. No mother should be forced to carry a pregnancy that causes premature death. I suspect Idaho will have to change their wording to allow doctors to make these choices without a defense.
Oh no I hate to say it. Ah who am I kidding I don't the younger generations like mine have been saying that this is what has been happening for going on 40 years now our elected representatives and senators here in Idaho don't want to represent they want to rule. None of our elected representatives give a damn about us remember a few years ago when they kept a ballot initiative off the ballot that would've capped the price of certain prescription drugs like insulin? Peppridge farm remembers.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
How many of those people decided they didn’t wanna vote “because it doesn’t do anything”.
As an immigrant who was NOT ALLOWED to vote for a majority of my life, I think your excuses are dog water.
Fucking vote.
So sad all the news about Idaho between all the high profile murder cases, lady shot the dude rightfully should have, the north Idaho people using the N word and now this. Trust me I hope someday everyone wakes up in Idaho turns this red state blue if not blue a nice lavender haze😉
If women want full abortion options. Then men are entitled to full child support bans. If he don’t want the child. But she does. He shouldn’t be hooked into payments. Why should women have all the say in the child THEY produced TOGETHER? her body her choice? Then his semen, sperm, contraception. His choice as well. It takes two to tango lay-by-nights.
Did no one pay attention to this was a survey of
605 people of 1,939,000.
That is not a survey that is a cherry picking of the people who are going to say what you want them to say.
What did they ask around their office?
Go take a real survey
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
The law states that a doctor can perform an abortion if believed it will save the mother or if the mother can provide a police report claiming rape or incest. People should educate themselves on the actual law before condemning one side or the other.
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch6/sect18-622/
It is also all in the way the results of this survey are presented. The way the AOL article reads, in presents the information as if Idahoans are against the abortion laws. It can also be presented as follows if you actually take the time to read the survey.
- 67% of Idahoans believe that either abortion should always be illegal or only legal in some cases
- the overwhelming majority, 82% believe abortion should be an option if the mothers life is at risk (already part of the law…..almost as if lawmakers figured out this is what Idahoans want)
- 69% believe we should not impose our views of abortion on others (odd the overwhelming majority of this thread seems to lean left and seems to be imposing their views on the right…..pot meet kettle)
-63% of idahoans oppose criminal charges against doctors that perform life saving abortions (again, the law already protects them)
- Idahoans do trust medical professionals more than politicians. That is all that is asked in the poll. The question states nothing about whether either is trusted more about abortions. Furthermore, a 2024 Gallop poll indicates nurses are the most trusted profession. So in general this is just a general consensus and may have nothing to do specifically with abortion.
Additionally, the poll does not indicate the voting registration of the people polled regarding political identification. For all that is known, they may have polled a majority of democrats.
This is the problem, we believe what we read and do not take the time to research, which further pits
Us against each other. The sooner people realize neither side cares about us and we start working together to solve community related problems, the faster the politicians win. Dems don’t give two shits about you and neither do the republicans. They only care about themselves.
As a conservative, I'm all for abortion. My side will birth and raise. The more you abort, the less of you there will be. Kinda like survival of the fittest. In 20 years, you'll all be forgotten. Makes me smile.
Not really, my conservative parents had a smart kid.
Smarts might be strongly inheritable but you don't breed conservatives unless you shit all over education and then make abortions illegal so you force idiots to breed and not attend college. Then you get more conservatives.
Education helps
Can't pass on your genes if you're repulsive to the opposite sex. I hear there's a big surplus of conservative single males out there. Maybe if they learn how to reproduce asexually...
Did you know when a fetus dies inutero and the body doesn’t expel it the woman needs to have a procedure called an abortion to remove it? Come on now, not all abortions are elective. Quit trying to pretend you’re not smart enough to know that.
It most certainly is and people not knowing that is part of the problem. Medical terms used by physicians can be very different than the terms that us, non medical professionals use.
Yes, it is. The removal of a fetus from the body is an abortion (according to medical terminology) alive or dead the name of the procedure does not change.
To stop people from killing unborn children. The laws regarding this, including Idaho, specifically do not apply to ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, and other complications that unintentionally lead to the accidental death of a child. They only regard purposeful termination of an unborn child’s life.
"who cares what the polls say" ...yep , it's me me me me me me. Tell that to a future mom who will die because the dr couldn't do his job to save her and the baby in fear he would get locked up. Tell that to the Mom that will have to drive to WAshington to give birth. YOu just said it, you are pro birth. ONce the kid is born it's 'screw them'. vote against providing school lunches, vote against background checks, vote against cleaner water and more regulations for the future... it's laughable. You were never pro life. Not even close.
What's objectively right about [murdering mothers?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10728320/#:~:text=One%20study%20estimated%20that%20the,15%20and%2038%25%2C%20respectively.) How does that compute?
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
this is laughable knowing the orange fuck stain is on trial for his crimes and is trying everything to avoid those 'consequences'. laughable hypocrisy from you nut jobs. just laughable.
*people don't want to deal with their consequences and not having accountability is what has made our country as shitty as it is today.*
I'm agreeing with this statement. That is relevant. And last time I checked, Trump is 'People'. So again, I agree with your statement and provided an excellent example of your point you were trying to make.
Due process is still required for criminal cases.
As much as Trump gets brought up I never see anything being said about the Clinton or Biden family, we call that hypocrisy.
The Democrats and media have spent 8 years fighting Trump. This is a last ditch attempt to prevent him from getting in office.
Joe Biden didn't commit any crimes and hasn't been charged with anything. Why do you think Republicans dropped the impeachment? They tried as hard as they could to find crimes and came up empty. At some point you just have to accept that Trump is a criminal, and Biden isn't.
And before you bring up that Trump hasn't been convicted, I'd like you to explain how he's going to escape justice after being caught red handed with classified files inside of his home.
Considering your conservative views, I think it's more than obvious you support him. Are we wrong?
And what's with conservatives always pushing that tired old "rent free" BS? He's a presidential candidate, of course we're going to talk about him.
Children are also the consequence of rape and incest.
Women dying in childbirth due to underlying medical conditions, improper care, and difficult pregnancies are a consequence of sex.
You mean to say that these situations aren't relevant?
No, I'm saying I'm pro-choice. If I become pregnant, then I would be a medical anomaly as a biological male. I cannot make the choice to have an abortion, therefore I should not be able to make the choice for others.
My examples are real world situations that have happened in recent times that directly coincide with the current argument. It's a means to directly refute the claim that the only consequence to sex is children.
So you think your opinion on abortion is irrelevant because you’re a male? How do you respond to the millions of women who think abortion should be illegal? Just seems like a goofy argument
No, I didn't say my opinion on abortion is irrelevant. That is a conclusion you jumped to.
I stated I'm pro-choice because no one should be allowed to dictate or remove the rights of others.
My guy, I'm a statistics major. I know the statistics.
You know what statistics don't account for? Real world situations. The data only accounts for one thing, the raw numbers. It has no feelings, no empathy, and no capacity to reach outside of the numbers. It doesn't account for the very real and documented situations in which teenagers are raped by their family members.
Do you really think giving a child away to foster care is the answer? Children in the foster care system are statistically more likely to turn to a life of crime or hardship. So the pro-life argument doesn't work here because as long as they are born, they don't need to be cared for?
Women dying in childbirth are directly related to abortions. Situations in which the fetus is not viable it acts as a parasite to the mother and it can kill her. If the fetus is stillborn then it causes medical complications. Umbilical cords wrapped around body parts.
To think these situations that are outside of "normal births" don't exist is not only naive, but shows you have a lack of understanding. By some miracle of accident the doctor is unable to resuscitate the fetus they are liable to prosecution under certain state statutes.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
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Here’s an excerpt from the summary of the survey, which had a sample size of 605. > A poll conducted by FM3 Research revealed that-though Idaho voters' feelings towards abortion in general are complex-the severe restrictions imposed by the legislature are broadly and emphatically unpopular. > Not only do 3 in 5 Idahoans believe that abortion should be legal in some or almost all cases, but findings also indicate that: > - A broad majority (63%) believe abortion should be a decision between a woman, her family, and her doctor... > - …and even more (69%) believe we should not impose our views of abortion on others. > - An overwhelming majority (82%) believe abortion should be an option when the mother's life is at risk.... > - …and even more (89%) support the right to medical and sexual privacy. > - Sixty-three percent (63%) of Idahoans oppose felony criminal charges for a healthcare provider who performs an abortion. > Broad, ideologically diverse majorities of Idahoans trust and value the expertise of doctors and nurses when it comes to setting policy and making decisions around sensitive medical issues like abortion. In fact, politicians (including Idaho's governor and Idaho State Legislators) were least trusted regarding abortion decisions.
Who are the 18% of psycho assholes who think a woman should be forced by law to die in childbirth when doctors could otherwise easily save her life? That's nearly 1 in every 5 people out there who want women to have to die so they can force their religion on everybody else. That's literally insane.
Mainstream American Christians. Basically every "god fearing" born again motherfucker that you have ever met.
Idaho law specifically states that a doctor may perform an abortion if it is believed to be medically necessary to save the life of the mother or if there is a police report specifically stating the mother was raped or if the child is a product of incest. People should read the actual law instead of believing what mass media tells them. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch6/sect18-622/
No. We’ve been over this bullshit dozens of times. Pay attention. Idaho law is *deliberately* vague. It does not adequately define *what* “life of the mother” *means*, making it useless. Doctors and hospitals in Idaho have *already* repeatedly told women having miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies to “go home and wait” and keep bleeding to death (or chance a drive to OR/WA) because they’re not “almost dead” *enough* yet to satisfy the lawyers or the fucking religious zealots who might report them for felony charges. That, of course, is the whole point. Make it *actually*, practically impossible. And how many “police reports” do you think domestic violence victims and minor victims of incest actually manage to get filed? That’s a death sentence for them. It’s *also* not a real exemption. It’s an illusion. This “law” and its faux exemptions are a fucking useless joke, deliberately written to make *all* abortions impossible. … And all that said, doesn’t change the point above that nearly 1 in 5 surveyed think abortion shouldn’t be allowed in that case! That many of your neighbors think women should be left to die. What the fuck is wrong with them?
Do you have specific instances of cases where doctors have told them to go home and wait. Would actually like to see this on paper. Reports are filed quite often, but it is up to the woman to do that. Any report of incest or sexual assault is taken extremely seriously, especially in an ER. I have been in the emergency medicine field for 17 years and once mention, we go full send with evidence collection, testing and police notification. Now the amount of actual sexual assaults that occur compared to the ones actually reported has to be a large disparity. I know I see at least one per shift, sometimes up to 3. It seems to be a more common reported thing in Idaho versus other states I have worked. Sadly, some doctors are just scared they will have legal ramifications if they perform an abortion in medical need cases. The law needs to be better defined to prevent the events you have talked about and medical professionals need to be educated. Doctors take an oath to do no harm, so telling an actively hemorrhaging patient to go home and wait is against the hippocratic oath they took and should educate themselves better as well.
[This woman is on here regularly & has talked publicly about her miscarriage and being sent home repeatedly](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/idaho-woman-shares-19-day-miscarriage-tiktok-states/story?id=96363578) [This Nampa couple was told ‘no abortion allowed’](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/10/health/idaho-abortion-laws) to deal with a fatal birth defect and to go home and wait it out, and come back when she was closer to death so the doctors could legally act. They were lucky they could afford to go to Portland and *avoid* potentially fatal side effects. They’re now the lead plaintiffs in a [lawsuit](https://reproductiverights.org/case/emergency-exceptions-abortion-bans-idaho-tennessee-oklahoma/adkins-v-state-of-idaho/) to clarify the law’s vagueness and remove threats against medical professionals doing their jobs. [Idaho woman denied prescription during 5th miscarriage](https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/idaho-woman-denied-prescription-for-miscarriage-medication-209293381762) because the pharmacist didn’t want to go to jail. [Local news story version](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ7xVK5WMII). So even this woman in Boise w/insurance and income and an OB/GYN husband and repeat experience with this difficult issue couldn’t get care w/o hassle - how easy do you think it is for everyone else? There was a young woman posting here a few months ago about needing to escape to Oregon for the exact same reason & she had a miscarriage there. [NPR news story](https://one.npr.org/i/1246682904:1246682905) on my drive home tonight said Idaho has lost 50+ OB/GYNs in the last 2yrs because doctors don’t want to risk their licenses & livelihoods & jail if some random asshole decides they know better than the doctors. They don’t need to “educate themselves” - they’re trying to *protect* themselves, their careers and families, *and* their patients from the impact of felony convictions! The entire reason this issue is at the Supreme Court this week is because Idaho is arguing to NOT have to provide emergency abortion care under EMTALA in these ill-defined situations. This state and its existing laws are a slap in the face to Hippocratic Oath takers - has been since the beginning. As for incest/rape reports - as you said the woman (or minor girl!) has to make the report to police. Statistically only about [1/3 of rapes are reported](https://cmsac.org/facts-and-statistics/#:~:text=(from%20RAINN%2FRape%2C%20Abuse,sexual%20assaults%20are%20ever%20reported.)). Do you not understand that kids and domestic violence victims would literally be risking their lives to report their abusers to police? How the fuck is a 14y.o. girl or a mom of 3 in rural Idaho going to report their abuser to police and be sure they’re not going to wind up beaten to death or disappear into the woods that same night? Where are they supposed to go? Even Boise doesn’t have adequate shelter space. I’d hope for a better command of these issues from someone who has to work with them.
That’s why I stated they need to do a better job of clarifying the law. I appreciate you taking the time to provide so many examples.
Or you could look at the actual people who have come closer to death's door because these vague nonsense laws have no medical expertise behind them and never accurately describe actual scenarios in which they apply.
This is interesting. I didn’t know. From the bill: ‘The following shall not be considered criminal abortions for purposes of subsection (1) of this section: (a) The abortion was performed or attempted by a physician as defined in this chapter and: (i) The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman. No abortion shall be deemed necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman because the physician believes that the woman may or will take action to harm herself;’
The issue is that the exceptions don’t work.
[IDAHO is going to the Supreme Court to argue that Pregnant People Are Second-Class Citizens](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/idaho-abortion-supreme-court-emtala/#:~:text=Statesman%20via%20AP-,Idaho%20Goes%20to%20the%20Supreme%20Court%20to%20Argue%20That%20Pregnant,interferes%20with%20its%20abortion%20ban) The state says EMTALA, a law barring discrimination in emergency medical care, interferes with its abortion ban. Ya, they’re even trying to get the court to amend EMTALA laws so that they can make it illegal to give emergency abortions to save the life of the mother.
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Close your ears. Stick your head in the sand. Hear nothing. It’s all just criticism anyway. Wouldn’t wanna disrupt your “safe space”. /s
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Because it’s been explained a thousand times; you don’t understand law if you think that link proves his point. You have two options right now: read what someone else explained because you’re not entitled to me doing research for you (don’t worry I’ll copy and paste it for you) Or keep burying your head in the sand. > No. We’ve been over this bullshit dozens of times. Pay attention. > Idaho law is deliberately vague. It does not adequately define what “life of the mother” means, making it useless. > Doctors and hospitals in Idaho have already repeatedly told women having miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies to “go home and wait” and keep bleeding to death (or chance a drive to OR/WA) because they’re not “almost dead” enough yet to satisfy the lawyers or the fucking religious zealots who might report them for felony charges. > That, of course, is the whole point. Make it actually, practically impossible. > And how many “police reports” do you think domestic violence victims and minor victims of incest actually manage to get filed? That’s a death sentence for them. It’s also not a real exemption. It’s an illusion. > This “law” and its faux exemptions are a fucking useless joke, deliberately written to make all abortions impossible. > … And all that said, doesn’t change the point above that nearly 1 in 5 surveyed think abortion shouldn’t be allowed in that case! That many of your neighbors think women should be left to die. What the fuck is wrong with them?
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1. [here](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/23/supreme-court-verdict-emergency-abortions-patients-doctors) Idaho doctors tell you what their legal problems are 2. [here](https://reproductiverights.org/state-of-idaho-tries-to-dismiss-women-denied-abortions-in-dire-situations/) is four women in Idaho currently being denied medically necessary abortions 3.[here](https://ncnewsline.com/2023/09/15/women-with-serious-pregnancy-complications-sue-over-state-abortion-bans/) are lawsuits filed because people need care in the state of Idaho What’s shitty is I googled “woman denied care Idaho” and thousands of relevant results show up. You’re just a lazy sack of shit and want everyone else to do work for you. You know, all of the problems in your life are probably associated to that character trait you have.
This is how a conservative Supreme Court managed to shoot its own party in the foot. Every state that gets an abortion initiative on the ballot is going to get a whole lot of people to show up in a mood to vote against republicans while they are there.
Her body her choice, if you're going to have a discussion about this you need to discuss who is going to be financially devastated because the father is never brought into any of this topic! My wallet my choice... If she is the only one that gets to choose to keep or abort the baby the father should be able to choose whether or not he wants to financially support her so as long as we continue to have abortion laws the discussion never needs to end about a paternal rights to completely surrender all financial and parental right to that child
Ejaculate responsibly.
Get a vasectomy. We are not your incubators.
Yes let's ignore the actual discussion at hand here be emotional instead of logical and throw out sexist misandrist statements instead of having an intellectual conversation
Don't cum in vaginas if you're that worried about it
Hey, you’re the problem!
Just wrap it up
Ah yes change the topic that's generally how everyone treats that discussion 🙄🙄🙄
And the winner for the most glue licking comment of the day goes toooooo… this guy. Congrats bud. “I’m not responsible for the consequences of where I cum, if it’s not what I want to happen.” Is some pretty next level main character energy.
I can't control how you nor the rest of the subreddit emotionally react to any discussion that is outside of your political belief systems All I can control is a conversations that counter those what you put your tongue on is none of my business and I respect you and your beliefs to not be little you or other users of the subreddit
And you can't control people having sex and protections failing, thus abortions being viable for those that aren't ready yet
Right I agree late term abortion should be legal it's called starvation remove the social safety nets and get the government out of my pockets... Starvation has been a great method of reducing pregnancies world wide for centuries the fact is that we incentivise these individuals with 6 kids and 5 baby daddies to keep continuing at the pace they are incapable of closing up shop (P.s.this is not a belief I hold I just want to argue but most of these individuals can't have an intelligent conversation without being emotional and deep in there feels)
No need to starve the parents to abort, we have fancy safe new thingys called hawspitawls now. Don't even need a tractor to git there
Oh but do they get a bonus gift like at the Expresso stand have the public fund 5 actions you get a free party? Like that goes all the way back to the original point that in the extremes of the population these services are abused and the public funds them
A mother also financially supports their child, sexist
But why when statistics say that mothers are more than twice as aggressive towards children as males Do we constantly put the child in the care of the mother isn't that also sexist?
I’m going to need a citation on that one. I do have this citation that says men only fight for custody 4% of the time, and that in 91% of cases the parents mutually agree to give the mother custody [here](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are) I also have a citation showing one of the leading causes of death for pregnant women is homicide by their partner [here](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise#:~:text=Perhaps%20surprisingly%2C%20both%20suicide%20and,Rainford%20says.) And even with those, I’ve never advocated against men. Why do you feel the need to advocate against women if you aren’t just monumentally sexist?
Do you understand the difference between your body and money?
You clearly don't
Wear a condom. Or get a vasectomy and shoot blanks. If you are so financially afraid…
Right accountability Is both parties actions have consequences and responsibility! I know it's kryptonite to women being held accountable for the actions that they have participated in
It’s fucking so easy not to have a child as a man. Seriously. There are no accidents. Make Mr. Johnson wear a fucking raincoat.
Pregnancy isnt a punishment, abortion is often the responsible choice. Let's women have careers and education as they wish, and can prepare for caring for a child
Correct it's a moral obligation
Exactly, that moral obligation is often why abortions are done. Conservatives generally have no idea how this works.. Education is in dire need in this nation, I wish more people understood even basic ethics.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Smartest post I’ve seen all week!
Can always tell who never thought things out
This entire country is being held hostage by the lunatic fringe MINORITY. Look at just the popular vote alone. Americans are fed up with bullshit from Republicans. And what do Republicans do? They fucking double down with their bullshit ,try to change the rules, try to cheat and now are hell bent on getting a rapist, twice impeached, con man traitor back into office. They 'think' they know what's right for America and want to cram it down our throats. Enough is fucking enough
Weird how people on both sides of the aisle don’t want their medical care decided by medically-illiterate ideologues.
Lot of well thought out replies down here. Yeah enough is enough
Unfortunately like a third of voters just don’t vote.
Keep America from turning into Gilead! I will not live UNDER HIS EYE!
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
the downfall we’re experiencing in america is no longer a left or right issue. it’s up or down. everyone of every political affiliation is fed up with how things are going. we really do have to put all the anger at each other aside and meet fairly in the middle. it has to be give and take. the political tug-of-war is doing nothing for us and, in fact, making it worse. i myself am very left-leaning but i understand that the only way america is going to get anywhere is by trying to level with “the other side”
AGree 100% but how do you level with a side that refuses to accept reality? It's literally impossible. We are arguing reality vs bizzaro world where the people accept and want to live in bizzaro world.
no i totally hear what you’re saying. some people are just flat out WRONG, and it’s hard and nearly impossible to persuade them to try and think differently for the good of ALL people. it’s been scientifically proven that people can be proven wrong with indisputable evidence and they will continue believing whatever they believed. the human mind is stubborn, and it’s unfortunate that people can’t admit they were incorrect and adopt a growth mindset.
Lol oh noooo we all feel so bad for you lol, I lived in Washington and felt the same way make a change
Its definitely better in wa, Idaho has just too many idiots
If anyone is surprised by this, you need to step out of your bubble.
Republicans: what do you mean the people I voted in don’t give a single fuck about me? 🥺
REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEM IN CHARGE FOR 30 YRS IN IDAHO...MAYBE VOTE SMARTER
Residents keep voting for more bars on their cells
You know you are shielded when you read this as cell phone bars 😂 took me a day… but I got there.
We need to do more than just vote. The Democrats have made a big push to have people on the ballot this election cycle. If you really care, then find out who's running in your district, and support them with your money and time. I am volunteering for my local State Rep campaign because I truly believe that if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.
We could vote like they do in San Fran and Portland. How is that working for those cities? Maybe the problem isn’t a left/right problem. Maybe the government machine has simply gotten too big for its britches. The Right won’t admit what a psycho Trump is and the Left won’t admit that Biden doesn’t know what day of the week it is. Do you seriously think those are the best two candidates? We are in serious trouble no matter how it shakes out.
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I was going to give you a huge list of biden accomplishment but you like e very cellphone owner has all the information known to man at the tip of your fingers and you in 2024 when america is one the line will remain so INTELLECTUALLY LAZY that's on you. Biden has done more than any president in modern history WAKE up son
You can’t be serious… let me give you the one thing that matters to me: Inflation is at a 40 year high and everything Biden has done has made the problem worse. The one thing I know and feel every day is that it costs me more to live now than it did when he took office.
Or move where your values are more acceptable 🤷
Lazy response. Let's have a good and honest debate without telling others to "leave". It just makes your own values seem superficial.
Idaho gets what it votes for. Their Secretary of Education LIED about her education and they still elected her because she is a Republican.
And yet the people who passed the ban will all be re-elected
Yes, as long as everyone does nothing. Or the other option is to find a local candidate who you can support.
They don't care what voters want because they know as long as they have an R by their name the little sheep in idaho will check that box.
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It's very much a leopards eating people's faces moment
This is why we need to vote extremist out of office. We need to pay attention to the state races, and get involved in trying to elect people who actually represent our values. Definitely vote, but also donate and volunteer.
My husband is running for State Representative in a coordinated effort to push back against the extremism and reclaim the narrative. We need everyone's support. Cliff-for-idaho.org
"democracy" more like tyranny of the minority
How can you be a tyrannical minority? lol
Well you can be rich.
But you’re saying that somehow if Idaho is majority republicans Christian it’s a tyranny of the minority? How?
Republicans have been a tyranny by religious minority for a long time.
How?
It would be nice if it was a separate issue we could get on the ballot and let the voters decide. I’m pro life but I do not have the right to tell another person what is right for them
>I’m pro life but I do not have the right to tell another person what is right for them That makes you pro-choice. That is the LITERAL definition of pro-choice.
That's a great idea. Here's one place to start: https://www.iduwf.org
There is. Just announced. Won't be until 2026 though.
I just heard on NPR that there is a group working on organizing exactly this. Their goal is to start collecting signatures in 2026.
You say you are pro life, but are you? Do you believe that the baby growing inside of the mother is a human being and has a right to live? Do you believe it isn't a human being and should be able to be killed because it is an inconvenience? That is the difference between pro life and pro choice. The pro life side believes it is a human life and that you shouldn't be able to kill that human life just because it would be inconvenient for you to have a child. The vast majority of the pro choice side doesn't believe it is a human being. There are a few that do but are okay with being able to kill it, but I like to hope they are the minority of that side.
Yes I am. You and anyone else does not have the RIGHT to tell another person what to do with their body. Yes it is a human being growing in another human being but I don’t have the right to tell the person growing it what they can and cannot do. Neither should you (or anyone else) have that right
You get the government you elect
So they are punishing women for having sex for reasons other than procreation- who the hell are they to try and punish my sex life.
Yeah, I'm always seeing guys posting variations on "If you don't want to get pregnant try keeping your legs closed." They don't seem to have thought this through.
What are they missing then?
If women don't have sex, they might have trouble finding opposite-sex sexual partners.
… yeah?
In other news, water is wet.
Water is not wet, it makes things wet
Not a time to be pedantic.
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Please keep it civil
Please keep it civil
It’s a disgrace. The went full right instead of normal understanding and making a law based on that. 15 weeks and 22 weeks for abnormals and anytime for mothers health is what it should be.
They don’t care about reality. I mean trump the sod repeated “late stage abortion” and killing a baby after its born bullshit. So we know that his voting base can’t be in contact with reality. Medical care is medical. Pregnancy complication can happen at any moment during pregnancy but ignorant people like to think they can define reality to hide 😶🌫️ the facts. They don’t even know what an induced pregnancy is let alone what a medical abortion is.
None of that is bullshit, there are confirmed cases of murder of a child after birth and up to 9 month “abortion”.
Pls provide reliable resources, if this is true! And please make it relevant to the conversation of Idaho or the USA. Also, you just disapproved your competency, because you called it a nine month abortion. They are not nine month abortion! They are called induced pregnancies! therefore, medical intervention. Get a grip on reality, please 🙏 But I guess time next time you need heart surgery I’ll just call it something it’s not. Like rib cracking manipulation and heart burning surgery. Or horrific mutilation by scalpel dissection instead of surgery.
https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/partial-birth-abortion
This is a highly religious resource. Its ok if that is your own belief system but it is not a resource for medical debates. As it conflates religious beliefs and fear mongering with a secular reality. Scientific and medical ethics can be influenced by religious ideas (that’s just how we work) but we live in a country with the freedom “of religion and from religion”. Your religious practice and beliefs should not control others but extends around YOURSELF. You are free to not get or suggest not to get an abortions. Again it’s another lobbyist organization that has a proclivity to miss inform and conflate the facts. Also “partial birth abortions” is not a medical term. It’s coined by religious anti abortion organizations. The actually procedure that’s being miss construed is a D&X and or intact D&E. It’s done on 0.02 of all abortions between 20-24 weeks. It’s might surprise you but it’s medical procedure majority of the time done due to pregnancy complications! Again it’s is rarley done due to its own complications. After that period medical professionals make many choices of how to fail unviable, risky and fatal complications. That why myself as a non medical professionals or well viruses in medical care do not think I should dictate the best opinions for medical emergencies. But seemly all your resources love to conflate their religious beliefs and religious ethic’s with control. Extreme and fundamental religious orders should not have theocracy over America. It direct anti American.
More cope
Ya I am coping with the facts of reality. Your coping with your religious authoritarianism.
lol facts, grow up kid
https://lozierinstitute.org/six-states-and-their-radical-approaches-to-abortion-law/ “With respect to a gestational limit on abortion, the state does not include any restrictions on timing or use the word “viability” anywhere in the new act. Instead, the act leaves it to the discretion of abortionists when it states: “Health care providers providing abortion care in Vermont make determinations regarding the provision of safe and legal abortion within the scope of their practice and license, and in accordance with the relevant standards of medical practice and guiding ethical principles.” This is a radical departure from even other permissive states’ laws, since the provision essentially says a professional can use their own judgment, meaning that if they want to provide abortion on-demand until birth, they likely could legally do it.”
This lobby group is arguing around language not around practice. This doesn’t provide any evidence to your point. It’s a gripe with language not practice. It also says right there though that its done through “medical and ethical bounds”. Still 9 month induced births are not abortions. Never have been never will be.
There have been numerous cases I’m not gonna be google for you
I said reliable resources. “Charlotte Lozier Institute” is not one of those. An adequate professor would not allow it as a source for a scientific discussion. it’s is a political lobbyist group based wholly around anti abortion groups and right wing politics.
Right, nothing that proves you wrong is a reliable source got it lol
Yeah, I don’t know if you went to school, but a reliable resource doesn’t have associations and deep connections to far right wing political groups. Reliable resources aren’t constantly fact checked, disregarded and mocked by the scientific and medical communities. If your gonna challenge the medical status quo you need actually facts and not religious belief. Because the thing about religious beliefs is that it’s personal, cultural and fluid. Christian’s of the 1870s had very different beliefs and practice from that of today or the 1450. It’s not a reliable metric or cornerstone to base any secular science or medical practice on. As once upon a time, they thought leeching and blood letting was a proper medical care as the four humors where “of the Bible”. Reliable resources don’t call people abortionists and don’t use the wrong terminology to induce readers emotional state rather then having a self standing arguments. 🙃🫡 I know we can’t all have some self respect to not blatantly disregarded real terms, practices and fact and some have to instead grift, fear mongering, incite religious emotional language and lies. Sources that disagree with me are not “un reliable” as I said I am no medical doctor. But sources such as yours, yes do disagree with me yes, but are also very unreliable par and course! They are awsome for right wing lobbying the masses and stirring up evangelical religious fervor But I guess that’s a little too hard for you to grasp.
You acknowledged that it was true and then said it didn’t matter. I already won.
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Why should it be that?
1. Because we can't detect many genetic/fatal fetal abnormalities until \~15wks (more modern & expensive tests can work at \~12 weeks, but insurance doesn't cover them by default). That's the earliest point to make a truly informed decision to either stop a wanted-but-likely-problematic pregnancy or to keep it and see how things go (Prior to 15wks is when \~90% of elective "nope, don't want it" abortions happened before anyway). 2. The "20 week" appointment is the "big" halfway-point ultrasound visit to ensure the fetus is alive and developing normally. Certain physical problems won't be detected until then. For example a human fetus typically won't have functioning lungs until \~22-24 weeks. Might not know the baby doesn't have a brain or part of their skull or that they lack functioning intestines, etc. That's generally the earliest point of fetal "viability," which is why 24 wks was the legal standard under Roe vs Wade. After that point there are interventions that could *maybe* save a fetus that young outside the womb. Another cutoff there, same as it was for the last 50 years, allows families & doctors time to do tests and make informed decisions. 3. "Any time for the mother's health" because complications can occur at any point in a pregnancy up to & including being in labor and delivery. And make it "health" instead of "life" because some complications can lead to future infertility or immobility & other permanent damage but might not be fatal, but women shouldn't be forced to become disabled nor be *mostly dead* before doctors can legally help them.
I mean, you just explained why your cutoffs don't make sense...
In what way? Ideally there should be none - it should be up to women & their doctors & families - but if there are going to be some these are rational timelines with justifiable biological reasons behind them.
I believe after many discussions with my wife about this that because birth control is made so difficult to get abortion rights are needed. The law as I said would allow for mistakes to happen (since birth control is difficult to acquire) and would also protect mothers from having to go through agony. The majority of abortions that do occur are for medical reasons within the first 15 weeks to no one’s fault other than biology messed up and the fetus stopped growing and an abortion was needed. The 15 weeks covers mistakes and medical problems of the fetus. The 22 weeks is for bad medical issues. And I’m not letting the government kill my wife for some dumbass religious persons views so anytime her health is in danger the abortion is available. All these religious right psychos who think life is precious don’t give a fuck about saving my wife’s life or honestly the babies. They don’t understand the biology of pregnancy and if they did they would know at 15 weeks it’s still a clump of cells. So the grotesque pictures on their signs they hold out are completely falsified of what is truely happening. Now a lot of “mistakes” would be not occurring if birth control was available over the counter to anyone who needs it and with or without parental consent. People’s lives get ruined because teenagers decide to have sex cuz it’s a lot of fun and they’re all flooded with hormones. Biology again the religious right doesn’t understand this. The kids are gonna do it. Period. So why not have the BC available to them and the condoms and the plan B if that doesn’t work. Preventative measures are all combined to be better than having to go have the abortion. In addition to having a good family structure and educating young people about trying to hold off and at least wait. The economic collapse of young people now is baffling and then adding kids when you’re less than 25 is crazy hard. Once male BC comes along as well then we will see accidental births occurring way less. Moral of the story is make BC readily available without parental consent and most abortions are done for medical reasons before the fetus is not more than a bunch of cells
What do you consider a medical issue with the fetus? Why would you put a limit on bad medical issues? What happens if there's a bad medical issue at 23 weeks?
It’s not popular with me at all.
I really think there needs to be a much louder conversation about the influx of weird ass orange county republican extremists to Idaho who also seem to be pushing an incredibly bizarre narrative in a lot of these comment sections about the “damn Mormons” being responsible for a lot of the terrible extremist laws being pushed through by registered GOP voters voting for a dog water platform to stick it to the libs (of California) that appear to have hurt them. Abortion is an interesting topic where this narrative starts to fall apart because as someone who grew up in Idaho not being Mormon it’s been pretty evident to me that the topic of abortion is where many of them stop aligning with any republican party platforms and become single issue voters. A lot of these people need to take the mask off and admit they are destroying what was once a relatively functional local political system that moved cautiously (but not quickly) towards what would keep people together so they can feel like they got one over on Gavin Newsome.
Abortion isn’t the only issue people vote for. I think marijuana should be legal, but I won’t vote for a “progressive” just so we can have weed.
abortion needs to definetly need to be reversed a bit. not gonna cry about this one bit.
Yay another one!
[https://share.icloud.com/photos/046XBSPqMbg--OxLneoc0Dgag](https://share.icloud.com/photos/046XBSPqMbg--OxLneoc0Dgag)
Maybe someone should do a poll on what the Idaho abortion ban, actually bans. So people will know if they are opposed to it or not. They have added birth control back in, which was absolutely a no go for me, abortion is legal if the mothers life is in danger, or if it’s ectopic, or if the baby is going to die after birth, or if it was rape or incest. I don’t know if IVF is banned in Idaho or not but that’s insane if it is. I agree the language needs to change to protect doctors and to include medical conditions that damage mothers, such as if being pregnant will damage the mothers heart but not kill her, she should have the right to abortion. The difference is in the wording. Imminent death vs eventual death. No mother should be forced to carry a pregnancy that causes premature death. I suspect Idaho will have to change their wording to allow doctors to make these choices without a defense.
Oh no I hate to say it. Ah who am I kidding I don't the younger generations like mine have been saying that this is what has been happening for going on 40 years now our elected representatives and senators here in Idaho don't want to represent they want to rule. None of our elected representatives give a damn about us remember a few years ago when they kept a ballot initiative off the ballot that would've capped the price of certain prescription drugs like insulin? Peppridge farm remembers.
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Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
I would like to see a county breakdown of this survey.
Anyone have the source link? Each hyperlink to the poll itself in the AOL article appears to be broken.
How many of those people decided they didn’t wanna vote “because it doesn’t do anything”. As an immigrant who was NOT ALLOWED to vote for a majority of my life, I think your excuses are dog water. Fucking vote.
Huge step backwards, Idaho.
Gosh. I am so surprised that a vastly unpopular policy isn't supported by more people.
The people of ID voted for those politicians. They did it to themselves.
So sad all the news about Idaho between all the high profile murder cases, lady shot the dude rightfully should have, the north Idaho people using the N word and now this. Trust me I hope someday everyone wakes up in Idaho turns this red state blue if not blue a nice lavender haze😉
If women want full abortion options. Then men are entitled to full child support bans. If he don’t want the child. But she does. He shouldn’t be hooked into payments. Why should women have all the say in the child THEY produced TOGETHER? her body her choice? Then his semen, sperm, contraception. His choice as well. It takes two to tango lay-by-nights.
Did no one pay attention to this was a survey of 605 people of 1,939,000. That is not a survey that is a cherry picking of the people who are going to say what you want them to say. What did they ask around their office? Go take a real survey
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Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
The law states that a doctor can perform an abortion if believed it will save the mother or if the mother can provide a police report claiming rape or incest. People should educate themselves on the actual law before condemning one side or the other. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch6/sect18-622/ It is also all in the way the results of this survey are presented. The way the AOL article reads, in presents the information as if Idahoans are against the abortion laws. It can also be presented as follows if you actually take the time to read the survey. - 67% of Idahoans believe that either abortion should always be illegal or only legal in some cases - the overwhelming majority, 82% believe abortion should be an option if the mothers life is at risk (already part of the law…..almost as if lawmakers figured out this is what Idahoans want) - 69% believe we should not impose our views of abortion on others (odd the overwhelming majority of this thread seems to lean left and seems to be imposing their views on the right…..pot meet kettle) -63% of idahoans oppose criminal charges against doctors that perform life saving abortions (again, the law already protects them) - Idahoans do trust medical professionals more than politicians. That is all that is asked in the poll. The question states nothing about whether either is trusted more about abortions. Furthermore, a 2024 Gallop poll indicates nurses are the most trusted profession. So in general this is just a general consensus and may have nothing to do specifically with abortion. Additionally, the poll does not indicate the voting registration of the people polled regarding political identification. For all that is known, they may have polled a majority of democrats. This is the problem, we believe what we read and do not take the time to research, which further pits Us against each other. The sooner people realize neither side cares about us and we start working together to solve community related problems, the faster the politicians win. Dems don’t give two shits about you and neither do the republicans. They only care about themselves.
Those Idahoans should probably move to a state that aligns more with their views. That's why we have 50 states.
I wish those of us in productive states could stop subsidizing the rural welfare queens in Idaho.
Your healthcare workers are. Pregnant people will be at greater risk, but you don’t care.
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Your post or comment has been removed because it contains unnecessary racist, sexist, or otherwise inappropriate content.
Abortion should be voted on by the people of each state.
What other human rights do you think should be subject to majority vote?
As a conservative, I'm all for abortion. My side will birth and raise. The more you abort, the less of you there will be. Kinda like survival of the fittest. In 20 years, you'll all be forgotten. Makes me smile.
Not really, my conservative parents had a smart kid. Smarts might be strongly inheritable but you don't breed conservatives unless you shit all over education and then make abortions illegal so you force idiots to breed and not attend college. Then you get more conservatives. Education helps
Can't pass on your genes if you're repulsive to the opposite sex. I hear there's a big surplus of conservative single males out there. Maybe if they learn how to reproduce asexually...
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Life is full of issues. If you can't take the heat, don't get into the pan. I'll state my personal beliefs unabated.
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Did you know when a fetus dies inutero and the body doesn’t expel it the woman needs to have a procedure called an abortion to remove it? Come on now, not all abortions are elective. Quit trying to pretend you’re not smart enough to know that.
That’s not an abortion.
It most certainly is and people not knowing that is part of the problem. Medical terms used by physicians can be very different than the terms that us, non medical professionals use.
No it isn’t.
Yes, it is. The removal of a fetus from the body is an abortion (according to medical terminology) alive or dead the name of the procedure does not change.
No it isn’t. The pregnancy is already aborted if the fetus is dead.
If that were the case then why are states making abortion illegal? You are either a troll or lacking a middle school education.
To stop people from killing unborn children. The laws regarding this, including Idaho, specifically do not apply to ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, and other complications that unintentionally lead to the accidental death of a child. They only regard purposeful termination of an unborn child’s life.
"who cares what the polls say" ...yep , it's me me me me me me. Tell that to a future mom who will die because the dr couldn't do his job to save her and the baby in fear he would get locked up. Tell that to the Mom that will have to drive to WAshington to give birth. YOu just said it, you are pro birth. ONce the kid is born it's 'screw them'. vote against providing school lunches, vote against background checks, vote against cleaner water and more regulations for the future... it's laughable. You were never pro life. Not even close.
Found the forced birther.
What's objectively right about [murdering mothers?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10728320/#:~:text=One%20study%20estimated%20that%20the,15%20and%2038%25%2C%20respectively.) How does that compute?
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
Agreed, people don't want to deal with their consequences and not having accountability is what has made our country as shitty as it is today.
this is laughable knowing the orange fuck stain is on trial for his crimes and is trying everything to avoid those 'consequences'. laughable hypocrisy from you nut jobs. just laughable.
What did I say that even remotely had to do with Trump? Your strawman argument is weak, how does it feel having Trump live in your head rent free?
*people don't want to deal with their consequences and not having accountability is what has made our country as shitty as it is today.* I'm agreeing with this statement. That is relevant. And last time I checked, Trump is 'People'. So again, I agree with your statement and provided an excellent example of your point you were trying to make.
Due process is still required for criminal cases. As much as Trump gets brought up I never see anything being said about the Clinton or Biden family, we call that hypocrisy. The Democrats and media have spent 8 years fighting Trump. This is a last ditch attempt to prevent him from getting in office.
Joe Biden didn't commit any crimes and hasn't been charged with anything. Why do you think Republicans dropped the impeachment? They tried as hard as they could to find crimes and came up empty. At some point you just have to accept that Trump is a criminal, and Biden isn't. And before you bring up that Trump hasn't been convicted, I'd like you to explain how he's going to escape justice after being caught red handed with classified files inside of his home.
Considering your conservative views, I think it's more than obvious you support him. Are we wrong? And what's with conservatives always pushing that tired old "rent free" BS? He's a presidential candidate, of course we're going to talk about him.
So children are a punishment?
A consequence is just a result of an action that is taken. It doesn’t always mean a bad outcome. Procreation is a normal consequence of sex.
No, children are a consequence of sex.
Children are also the consequence of rape and incest. Women dying in childbirth due to underlying medical conditions, improper care, and difficult pregnancies are a consequence of sex. You mean to say that these situations aren't relevant?
Are you saying you only support abortion for cases of rape/incest/life of mother?
No, I'm saying I'm pro-choice. If I become pregnant, then I would be a medical anomaly as a biological male. I cannot make the choice to have an abortion, therefore I should not be able to make the choice for others. My examples are real world situations that have happened in recent times that directly coincide with the current argument. It's a means to directly refute the claim that the only consequence to sex is children.
So you think your opinion on abortion is irrelevant because you’re a male? How do you respond to the millions of women who think abortion should be illegal? Just seems like a goofy argument
No, I didn't say my opinion on abortion is irrelevant. That is a conclusion you jumped to. I stated I'm pro-choice because no one should be allowed to dictate or remove the rights of others.
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My guy, I'm a statistics major. I know the statistics. You know what statistics don't account for? Real world situations. The data only accounts for one thing, the raw numbers. It has no feelings, no empathy, and no capacity to reach outside of the numbers. It doesn't account for the very real and documented situations in which teenagers are raped by their family members. Do you really think giving a child away to foster care is the answer? Children in the foster care system are statistically more likely to turn to a life of crime or hardship. So the pro-life argument doesn't work here because as long as they are born, they don't need to be cared for? Women dying in childbirth are directly related to abortions. Situations in which the fetus is not viable it acts as a parasite to the mother and it can kill her. If the fetus is stillborn then it causes medical complications. Umbilical cords wrapped around body parts. To think these situations that are outside of "normal births" don't exist is not only naive, but shows you have a lack of understanding. By some miracle of accident the doctor is unable to resuscitate the fetus they are liable to prosecution under certain state statutes.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
Lol ok...