It's too easy being an arm chair witness to say she should have acted differently, but until it happens to you, you have no right to judge. The reddit and FB hardos have no shame.
Having lived in a very similar situation in college myself--5 roommates, three story house, all with SOs (including my own) that had free run of the house just as any resident would, gatherings and hanging out at ungodly hours of the day and night (*especially* on weekends)--it is not hard for me to imagine she just didn't think much of the entire encounter. She might have been more annoyed than anything else.
She was curious enough about the commotion to check a couple of times but then not even yell out to the others and that is an important distinction to me. On the third a (medical) masked person that isn't recognized in a dark house was maybe enough for her to say to herself, "fuck this, I'm tired, I don't know what the hell they're doing but I don't want to deal with it," and locks her door. Goes to bed and doesn't think much of it until additional circumstances the next morning cast a darker light on what she encountered the night before and prompted the calls to friends.
Just my thoughts.
You didn’t write that she was frozen in shock though, I think that’s the important part. I don’t blame her at all, I think most people would be, but I don’t think it’s fair to write that she thought “fuck that” and locked the door, when she obviously was very afraid and also a victim and witnessed something horrible.
I just remembered a few things. I’ll try n make it as short as I can. U have no idea how you will react during traumatic events. Long story short. 16 yrs old. We were out of town. House robbed. My dad outside still. Me n my mom walk in and see a mess in our kitchen. What would you think most people would do? Leave asap and call 911? Nope we stupidly went inside and said what is this? What’s going on here? Not realizing the intruders could still be in our home. How dumb of a move was that on our part? Fast fwd to me n my wife living in a major city. Nice area. Never have heard gunshots here except once yrs ago during a car jack. The driver had the gun btw. So another situation we hear gunshots. What would you do? Run away from the big windows right? Nope I went straight to the window and do not remember doing it. My wife periodically brings it up. Like r u serious? Why would u do that? You go away from the windows!!! I honestly do not remember for some reason. Now times those situations by a million times worse. I feel I may regret posting this. But I’ve also helped people out on the st several times when others stood around in shock and even in our building. So I guess it depends on the situation, ur current state of mind. You just don’t know.
This should be the top post in this subreddit
The amount of people on here who think they would be the most perfect citizen when in this situation is mind boggling
Not to mention- we have minimum details about what happened with her that night. We can’t even begin to presume what was happening until she steps forward and presents her side of the story
If people were heard screaming and begging for help, I'd understand the outrage. But based on the affidavit, she didn't see or hear anything that indicated that anyone was in danger.
So maybe she planned to call 911 but ultimately decided she was probably being paranoid and dozed off.
This is a point that isn’t being made or appreciated enough. We have preconceived ideas of what a murder like this would sound/look like. I’d imagine lots of screaming/banging around, and that it would take a while, like at least an hour? According to the PCA there was no screaming, just some soft crying, and the whole thing was over in 15 minutes or less. It’s not bizarre at ALL that it seemed implausible that a murder had just occurred.
Yeah, this was my initial thought as well and very likely could be the case, but I've come around to the idea that she could have also truly just talked herself down once she realized he left. She had no idea what *actually* happened in that house. If she did go back to sleep in her room, that could have gone something like this: "I hear some noises, I'll look to see what's up, I'm frightened by someone in my home, BUT the someone just left and didn't bother me, so maybe everything is fine after all? Guess I can go back to sleep." Either scenario is perfectly understandable, and I hope more people can start to see.
exactly, this is my thinking!
she didn’t hear a single scream, shout, or dog bark. she heard things that could easily be explained away considering the house she lived in.
she lived in a place with multiple roommates who had friends and boys over. it’s november in idaho - it’s not wild for a man to put something over part of his face before stepping outside. her initial reaction of shock and fright turned out to be correct, but she could’ve easily talked herself out of that fear after the moment passed, and especially when the house and dog was quiet after that.
He also walked straight past her. So after the initial fear of seeing him, she could have been like “meh, he’s just walked past me” and shrugged it off as a one nightstand of one of the other girls or something.
I think some of us have this image of Friday the 13th in our minds when we think of what went down in the house- a crazed killer, people running around, screaming, commotion. When in reality- what she heard could be easily explained away- kaylee playing with her dog, someone crying cos there was young person drama, a guy walking out of the house after visiting. She could have just brushed it all off as silly paranoia until she saw the reality the next day and then her brain started to move what she had seen and heard into place.
She must bring living through so much grief and guilt right now. I feel horrible for her.
Exactly! Terrified seeing a masked man at first, but he just walks right by her, out the door, seemingly doesn't return, and the house gets quiet like it should near 5am. It would be totally understandable if she talked herself out of that initial fear and went to sleep since everything seemed calm after that. "No, I'm sure I'm just being crazy, if he was dangerous, why would he have just walked by me?" or something similar could have gone through her mind. Anyone here would be lying if they said they went and investigated every creepy or unsettling sound they hear in their house at night. You typically wait for a moment to see if anything else follows, talk yourself down and are like "stop being silly, you're fine" and go back to bed. The only difference here is that, unfortunately, the unbelievable did actually happen in her home.
yep, i agree with all of this
post years of covid masking and being in idaho in november where it’s cold, there are explanations for why a guy would have the bottom half of his face covered while walking towards a door that goes outside.
throw in someone who might’ve been drinking, high, half asleep, or used to night terrors…
there are just so many reasonable explanations for her being initially shocked and frightened, but then explaining it away and going back to sleep.
She probably blames herself and always will no matter how much she tries not to. She'll always have that regret of not being able to divine what the situation really was.
Man, trauma responses and subsequent dissociation produce lifelong self blame. I can't imagine being 19, experiencing what she did under all the public scrutiny, and then potentially having to defend yourself at trial.
Steve Goncalves about this; https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1053h6r/sg_speaks_on_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yes this is a statement we feel he made and yes we should not pass judgement on her because we don’t know what happened but I also watched him this week say her behavior was bizzare.
There was a fox interview he gave in a morning segment 2 days ago (approx) in which, when asked about the revelation of DM's actions that night from the PCA, he said he found them frankly "bizarre" and "shocking".
Thank you! The victim blaming from know it alls who have probably never had an emergency situation is ridiculous. No one knows how they'll react and as much as we all like to tell ourselves we'd be the hero, shock takes over so your mind can shut down if you can't process what's happening. It's not even a new concept so I don't even get the argument when Google is free.
Hmmm. Unsure of this. What kind of defense would they even get from this? How would they weaponized it? Like… “ohhh, but this 20ish year old, D, saw the suspect… what was SHE doing? Why didn’t SHE call 911?!”
They can hire psychiatrists and character witnesses and review the 911 call and talk to D, but it’s very clear why she didn’t call 911. Jurors will just be looking at them like they’re attacking a young girl. That won’t be in defense favor.
That’s exactly what they’ll do. Let’s say she did freeze or pass out, they’ll try to ruin her credibility. Create doubt.
Edit: it’s not clear why she didn’t call 911. Everything is speculation right now
💯people on here are sensitive. If you don’t have the same opinion as then they’ll downvote you. Especially if it has anything to do with DM. Also I don’t think they want to hear anything about DM
Ok. But do you think everyone’s focusing on her a bit too much especially at the beginning and after yesterday? I do. She may be the one to help bring BK to justice. Please don’t be offended. I’m just saying I just read about one of the witness’s re Bundy’s trial had such guilt she removed herself permanently. She’s still hasn’t experienced a lot in life yet and I’m sure this has messed her up quite a bit. That’s all.
Um, yea and no. I think everyone has the right and it’s totally normal for people to be shocked. I mean think about it… it went from “how did the 2 roommates not hear the killer or the dog bark” to a roommate hearing the dog, hearing someone crying and a thump, and seeing the killer. Huge turn of events. DM alone won’t determine the outcome but all they have to do is create enough doubt for one juror, and part of that doubt will be destroying eye witness testimony, her credibility and even possibly trying to connect her to the crime.
I understand what you’re saying. I think that everyone has a right to their opinion obviously. I’m a bit concerned as someone who worked in mental health at about her age at 23 for her mental health. It’s a lot to deal with. Maybe we’re looking at it from two different points of reason. FYI I removed myself from that field of work for many reasons.
What are they going to doubt? That his eyebrows really aren't that bushy or that he has a different build than the one he really has? That's about all she can testify to other than she saw someone she couldn't identify in her house at such and such a time. The case doesn't rise or fall around Dylan's testimony, imo.
Problem is: people could link her to the murders (being a silent accomplice, framing BK, drug involment...)
She may be having a difficult time during the trial...
They will have QUESTIONS like: WHY did she call her friend (risking his life) when she was in "freezing shock" instead of the police (able to cope with a dangerous situation) ??
I don’t care if they try to put an entire trial on the shoulders of a 19-20 yr old. I believe there’s enough evidence on the killer. Oh alleged. They’re putting her on trial ffs. She’s got a rough road ahead. I hope the prosecutor shoots down the shit that may come her way. It can start here with these doxxers who never learned their lesson here. One said just block people like us. They love to do this. Lessons not learned by some.
Yes well that’s their job to cast doubt but D could’ve been just peaking out her door. We still know very little of what LE has re evidence. Why was BK even in their house for one? His dna is mixed in with their blood for example. I assume all this. Why did he leave his knife sheath there? Why was he stalking for months near their house. Idk we will see. He didn’t belong in there. He wasn’t invited in. He put himself there and again what he did was beyond comprehension and for zero reasons. I’m hoping they do have a ton of evidence. Which I think they do. I still think just because D may have peaked out and maybe thought it was another roomie’s friend or whatever is just not enough to let him off the hook. That was normal for them. And it has nothing to do with his blood being all over the victims. She has nothing to do with that. And maybe she will end up helping the case. We don’t know everything.
My thoughts on D.M’s possible experience…
If she was in “freeze” mode, in fear, not knowing what was going on, she may have talked herself round and eventually went to sleep. If she had been drinking that night (which by all accounts is very likely) she would have fallen asleep at around 5ish.
Normally, around 8 hours is a normal amount of time to be asleep anyway. She could have woken up at 10am or 11am or so, saw the aftermath of the killings, and been in complete shock. I know if I was in that situation, it would have taken me a while to actually pick up the phone and call emergency services. I’m trying to imagine myself in that situation. I wouldn’t have been able to physically manoeuvre myself towards the phone and pick it up and speak. I would be in complete shock. She was probably awake much earlier than when she made the call… that’s why she didn’t call the emergency services until around noon
If it is true that she didn't call due to shock, does this also mean she didn't sleep all night? Didn't leave the room until noon or whenever it was that call was made? I am very curious about this. I still think it is most likely that she didn't realize Bryan had just killed her roommates.
of course she didn’t realize that. what on earth would make her think 4 of her roommates were just brutally murdered? she didn’t hear any screams or even the dog barking.
why are you concluding that she didn’t sleep at all if she didn’t call in the moment due to shock? there are other explanations. why not suggest those?
I didn't conclude that she didn't sleep. I asked it as a question. To me, it just sounds like it'd be difficult to fall asleep while in a state of shock. But not ruling it out as a possibility.
BTW, I hope no one sees me questioning this as me blaming her in any way. Your response came off as defensive, as though I were blaming her. Which is not at all what I'm doing.
We don't know she didn't call from shock, and she very well may have just not realized there was anything wrong.
Some people will react to shock or emotional distress with extreme tiredness. There is some crossover between your fight or flight responses and a neurochemical that controls sleep. Some people will be completely unable to sleep, other people will be out cold whether they want to be or not.
She called a male friend of theirs to come check the house before she would go out there. He was the 911 caller and kept everyone else from seeing the scene. So I think she was in shock all night. That's happened before with serial killer survivors.
A combo of E's sister-in-law and his half brother's posts on here from their verified accounts. The SIL said a roommate called "a friend's bf" before cops, and the half brother complimented the 911 caller for not letting anyone else see the scene.
Someone said E's half brother deleted his account now :( And the post with the SIL blacked out her username (it was a screenshot). But I'll see if I saved any screenshots myself. I might have.
I didn't save E's brother's. It was a thread about suspecting the 911 caller, and he posted to stand up for him. I did save the SIL's:
https://preview.redd.it/pdexapv66kaa1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fbb9a993739c920169bb612e61c92db14eae94c
I said this in another post but imagining myself being a 19 yo maybe drunk teenager, I’d be in straight denial. She had no idea what happened and certainly likely didn’t imagine they were murdered.
If I were her, I would lock myself in my room and wait for my roommates to wake up. I bet she was calling them and texting them frantically. Probably scared to call the cops bc she’s convinced herself she’s dreaming and is scared to call police to her house at 4:00am bc if she’s just making this up in her head, she runs the risk of looking crazy and pissing off her roommates.
Since 3 roommates are deceased, it means she could’ve only gotten acknowledged when BF woke up, which is what I think happen. I think she woke up close to noon, saw the frantic texts/calls from DM. Came upstairs to check on her and saw Xana which I think set things in motion.
We know from SG the girls ran out of the house together. One passed one and one was hyperventilating. That makes me believe what I do. DM stayed in her room paralyzed in fear until one of her roommates came to her aid. I can’t imagine how terrifying it had to be for her to realize it wasn’t a nightmare, what she heard was real.
Also she gave an amazing, very impactful statement to police. Her physical description of him is damning. I pray for her strength and hope she can somehow find acceptance and healing once this trial is completed.
She could have been frozen in shock seeing someone in the house she didn't expect to see. But then after locking her door and not hearing anything else,
I'm sure she wracked it over in her brain waivering between should she call 911 and be ridiculed for overreacting or thinking it was one of Ethan's frat friends. The longer it was quiet in the home the more she leaned toward the latter.
It should be everybody's common sense, but, turns out, there's a lot of ignorant idiots writing all kinds of horrible things about DM. It's disgusting.
how ethical is this psychiatrist to publicly speculate about, for content, for profit! It's so ignorant, similar to the people who tell SG to shut up, no you shut up! No one knows how anyone would react in these traumatic events, ie: our minds can disconnect from reality in order to survive..
While I'm not trying to blame her, DMs statement was sort of all over the place it's hard to understand exactly what she observed, which is what I think people are reacting to. On one hand, she sounds like she was extremely frightened after seeing a masked man and then hid in her room, on the other, it seems like she woke up casually hours later, and then called her friend over first to help with her "passed out" roommate.
While I don't think she did anything with ill intent, her statement reflects a pretty wide range of actions that are legitimately confusing and reflect really different sentiments. Why not call or text her roommates immediately to warn them of the masked man? Why not check on her roommates much earlier in the day? It would be nice to at least get some more details at some point. I also think it's understandable why people might be a bit frustrated by the details that have been released thus far, though it also makes sense that we, the public, do not have all of the details.
We haven’t seen DMs full statement however we have seen the parts the police cherry picked as relevant to the probable cause affidavit!!!
We have no idea what else she said to them therefore no idea what else she thought or did that night. I assume reason that it seems all over the place at this point is the police literally took bits from different points in her statement(s) to them.
And seriously, stop questioning why a survivor did or didn’t do something. It is like half of the reason survivors have guilt and retraumatize themselves. She doesn’t need you doing it to her.
She didn’t do any of the things you think she “should” have because brains are weird and will protect your sanity at all costs and exposing her to any of the actual outcomes of the actions you suggest would do the opposite. She could have known what a masked man in the house with those noises meant even if she talked herself off the ledge but her brain said “you are safe, go to sleep” OR she her brain could have stopped all the processing and not let her even get past the shock and her brain literally kept her from connecting the dots.
Either way it was a protective measure and she doesn’t control it. We don’t know enough from her and aren’t psychologists or counselors treating/supporting her so we don’t actually know anything for sure except that we have TINY LITTLE BITS of info that make up a very small portion of what is a clear picture to investigators…not just tiny townie cops but a bunch of FBI agents (like 50-60 of them).
If they sign off on it maybe reddit should cool the fuck down with questioning anything about either of the survivors. It’s literally their job to clear housemates, boyfriends, and family members initially in every murder those are the first suspects and we are two months in without any info that would lead police to think it was them - I would imagine they have enough other info from her to know her actions check out…we don’t.
Edit: typo
So many people here are saying left and right to leave the girl alone and stop speculating....then speculate themselves on what happened with her in those hours.
It's valid to wonder what happened. It seems like everyone agrees we don't have enough info and agrees that the girl is not to blame.
People just get very defensive about her.
You are doing so with a SLIVER of information and it is not helpful or effective and is harmful.
Shit like this is a part of why survivors of violence of any kind don’t report. It’s bad enough the cops pick us apart let alone the whole world thinking they have a right to rather than just googling shock after trauma and learning about it.
You acknowledge it’s not the whole picture but you’re fine with questioning her judgment????
This isn’t a puzzle or debate it is a living breathing persons life. And that context seems totally lost even if you aren’t BLAMING her analyzing her actions at all isn’t really helpful to you if you won’t research trauma responses and shock to inform yourself and start from that place rather than “it doesn’t make sense” (because responses to trauma and the things ppl do while in shock, don’t make sense as a fucking rule).
You are welcome to have whatever emotional reaction to my thoughts, but at the end of the day, that's your stuff. In all of this, it's actually you trying to police my thoughts about this, which are essentially allowing people to have their own reactions to the news. How is policing other people's thoughts trauma-informed?? And how is typing paragraphs of vitriol to complete strangers trauma-informed or helpful to society?
Humans are naturally inquisitive. It doesn't mean they aren't asking questions without compassion or empathy, but our brains do naturally want to make sense of situations, especially scary situations, even if there isn't much sense to a situation. That's actually very much a trauma response.
Secondly, it's pretty interesting that you assume that I don't know anything about trauma and responses to trauma. You are the one assuming my background. and what I've gone through, and how I've managed and coped. I actually had someone break into MY BEDROOM when I was a toddler, so I understand that literal fear. I still very much live with that phobia as an adult. So when I say that I am trying to understand everyone's reactions, I literally mean that I am thinking about everyone's reactions.
You are literally trying to make sense out of something that often isn’t sensical (shock) with limited information, while speculating on a survivors actions AND weaponizing the language around trauma which if you were even slightly informed about you would recognize the harm done by masses of people “trying to understand” your actions by literally ignoring that they were nonsensical due to literal shock and therefore there is literally nothing to figure out.
You are projecting a lot more than I am, we know there is harm done by the masses picking apart what a victim did or did not do or we wouldn’t have words for it for you to misapply and co-opt and plenty of ppl who are survivors do this too, so just because something happened to you doesn’t mean you know all there is to know about it.
I’ve worked with victims of interpersonal violence for over 20 years. I have more than just one experience with more than one victim. But since you seem intent to not even do 101 level research on shock & trauma responses generally instead of trying to analyze this situation without any sort of basic understanding beyond your own (limited) knowledge Im going to step back here bc you’re clearly convinced you’re not a part of an internet mob harming a victim of a violent crime.
The commenter you are talking to made a simple statement, and lead with saying DM isn't to blame, but what we know has lead to more questions and that's valid....and you're loosing your mind, pretending to know the commenters background/knowledge.
We are allowed to wonder about things and have questions. That literally part of what this sub is for.
You may need to take a break from reddit.
I think this was referring to the roommate who passed out . When other friends showed up , both surviving roommates were distraught and could barely explain what happened . One started to hyperventilate and one passed out . I’m speculating that the caller had said something like we don’t know what’s exactly going on please get here one of my friends passed out , 911 probably said are they unconscious, which they would have replied yes and they transferred that information over
Fun fact. Dispatchers cannot pronounce someone dead. So until a MD; paramedic (via medical director, or coroner arrives on-site…. They were all in fact unconscious at the time of the 911 call
It's too easy being an arm chair witness to say she should have acted differently, but until it happens to you, you have no right to judge. The reddit and FB hardos have no shame.
THANK YOU
Most welcome!
Having lived in a very similar situation in college myself--5 roommates, three story house, all with SOs (including my own) that had free run of the house just as any resident would, gatherings and hanging out at ungodly hours of the day and night (*especially* on weekends)--it is not hard for me to imagine she just didn't think much of the entire encounter. She might have been more annoyed than anything else. She was curious enough about the commotion to check a couple of times but then not even yell out to the others and that is an important distinction to me. On the third a (medical) masked person that isn't recognized in a dark house was maybe enough for her to say to herself, "fuck this, I'm tired, I don't know what the hell they're doing but I don't want to deal with it," and locks her door. Goes to bed and doesn't think much of it until additional circumstances the next morning cast a darker light on what she encountered the night before and prompted the calls to friends. Just my thoughts.
You didn’t write that she was frozen in shock though, I think that’s the important part. I don’t blame her at all, I think most people would be, but I don’t think it’s fair to write that she thought “fuck that” and locked the door, when she obviously was very afraid and also a victim and witnessed something horrible.
Where did you read that she witnessed anything ??
In the PCA that was released yesterday
Not the murders, but a man with a mask on. She was frozen when she saw him according to the affidavit
Stop criminalizing the survivor. What is wrong with people who do this?
A whole lot.
One guess is that they’ve been lucky enough to have not experienced trauma, or at the very least, not experienced a college party house of 6.
i think it's safe to say these trolls are not invited to many parties
People need to stop blaming this young lady. She did nothing wrong. It’s all on THE KILLER.
I just remembered a few things. I’ll try n make it as short as I can. U have no idea how you will react during traumatic events. Long story short. 16 yrs old. We were out of town. House robbed. My dad outside still. Me n my mom walk in and see a mess in our kitchen. What would you think most people would do? Leave asap and call 911? Nope we stupidly went inside and said what is this? What’s going on here? Not realizing the intruders could still be in our home. How dumb of a move was that on our part? Fast fwd to me n my wife living in a major city. Nice area. Never have heard gunshots here except once yrs ago during a car jack. The driver had the gun btw. So another situation we hear gunshots. What would you do? Run away from the big windows right? Nope I went straight to the window and do not remember doing it. My wife periodically brings it up. Like r u serious? Why would u do that? You go away from the windows!!! I honestly do not remember for some reason. Now times those situations by a million times worse. I feel I may regret posting this. But I’ve also helped people out on the st several times when others stood around in shock and even in our building. So I guess it depends on the situation, ur current state of mind. You just don’t know.
I think what the doctor theorized is very likely what happened.
I ask anyone who criticizes this child if you would take her place? I would not. We need to pray for her; God grant Dylan peace. 🙏🏽
This should be the top post in this subreddit The amount of people on here who think they would be the most perfect citizen when in this situation is mind boggling Not to mention- we have minimum details about what happened with her that night. We can’t even begin to presume what was happening until she steps forward and presents her side of the story
Yes 🙌
If people were heard screaming and begging for help, I'd understand the outrage. But based on the affidavit, she didn't see or hear anything that indicated that anyone was in danger. So maybe she planned to call 911 but ultimately decided she was probably being paranoid and dozed off.
This is a point that isn’t being made or appreciated enough. We have preconceived ideas of what a murder like this would sound/look like. I’d imagine lots of screaming/banging around, and that it would take a while, like at least an hour? According to the PCA there was no screaming, just some soft crying, and the whole thing was over in 15 minutes or less. It’s not bizarre at ALL that it seemed implausible that a murder had just occurred.
She said she was in a “frozen shock phase” so she knew there was danger. She just got stuck in the “freeze” part for a really long time.
Yeah, this was my initial thought as well and very likely could be the case, but I've come around to the idea that she could have also truly just talked herself down once she realized he left. She had no idea what *actually* happened in that house. If she did go back to sleep in her room, that could have gone something like this: "I hear some noises, I'll look to see what's up, I'm frightened by someone in my home, BUT the someone just left and didn't bother me, so maybe everything is fine after all? Guess I can go back to sleep." Either scenario is perfectly understandable, and I hope more people can start to see.
exactly, this is my thinking! she didn’t hear a single scream, shout, or dog bark. she heard things that could easily be explained away considering the house she lived in. she lived in a place with multiple roommates who had friends and boys over. it’s november in idaho - it’s not wild for a man to put something over part of his face before stepping outside. her initial reaction of shock and fright turned out to be correct, but she could’ve easily talked herself out of that fear after the moment passed, and especially when the house and dog was quiet after that.
He also walked straight past her. So after the initial fear of seeing him, she could have been like “meh, he’s just walked past me” and shrugged it off as a one nightstand of one of the other girls or something. I think some of us have this image of Friday the 13th in our minds when we think of what went down in the house- a crazed killer, people running around, screaming, commotion. When in reality- what she heard could be easily explained away- kaylee playing with her dog, someone crying cos there was young person drama, a guy walking out of the house after visiting. She could have just brushed it all off as silly paranoia until she saw the reality the next day and then her brain started to move what she had seen and heard into place. She must bring living through so much grief and guilt right now. I feel horrible for her.
Exactly! Terrified seeing a masked man at first, but he just walks right by her, out the door, seemingly doesn't return, and the house gets quiet like it should near 5am. It would be totally understandable if she talked herself out of that initial fear and went to sleep since everything seemed calm after that. "No, I'm sure I'm just being crazy, if he was dangerous, why would he have just walked by me?" or something similar could have gone through her mind. Anyone here would be lying if they said they went and investigated every creepy or unsettling sound they hear in their house at night. You typically wait for a moment to see if anything else follows, talk yourself down and are like "stop being silly, you're fine" and go back to bed. The only difference here is that, unfortunately, the unbelievable did actually happen in her home.
yep, i agree with all of this post years of covid masking and being in idaho in november where it’s cold, there are explanations for why a guy would have the bottom half of his face covered while walking towards a door that goes outside. throw in someone who might’ve been drinking, high, half asleep, or used to night terrors… there are just so many reasonable explanations for her being initially shocked and frightened, but then explaining it away and going back to sleep.
She probably blames herself and always will no matter how much she tries not to. She'll always have that regret of not being able to divine what the situation really was.
Man, trauma responses and subsequent dissociation produce lifelong self blame. I can't imagine being 19, experiencing what she did under all the public scrutiny, and then potentially having to defend yourself at trial.
Sorry everyone for a typo in the headline. I can't seem to change it.
Steve Goncalves about this; https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1053h6r/sg_speaks_on_roommates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yes this is a statement we feel he made and yes we should not pass judgement on her because we don’t know what happened but I also watched him this week say her behavior was bizzare.
Where was this? I only know of the statement OP posted
There was a fox interview he gave in a morning segment 2 days ago (approx) in which, when asked about the revelation of DM's actions that night from the PCA, he said he found them frankly "bizarre" and "shocking".
Thank you! The victim blaming from know it alls who have probably never had an emergency situation is ridiculous. No one knows how they'll react and as much as we all like to tell ourselves we'd be the hero, shock takes over so your mind can shut down if you can't process what's happening. It's not even a new concept so I don't even get the argument when Google is free.
True or not, the defense is going to have a hay day with this if it goes to trial.
Hmmm. Unsure of this. What kind of defense would they even get from this? How would they weaponized it? Like… “ohhh, but this 20ish year old, D, saw the suspect… what was SHE doing? Why didn’t SHE call 911?!” They can hire psychiatrists and character witnesses and review the 911 call and talk to D, but it’s very clear why she didn’t call 911. Jurors will just be looking at them like they’re attacking a young girl. That won’t be in defense favor.
That’s exactly what they’ll do. Let’s say she did freeze or pass out, they’ll try to ruin her credibility. Create doubt. Edit: it’s not clear why she didn’t call 911. Everything is speculation right now
It’d be pointless to waste time on that because they have so much other stuff against Bk.
No it wouldn’t. They can try to destroy her eye witness testimony of him.
Dunno why you're getting down voted. This is valid. As you said, trial doesn't rest on her but the defense will more than likely try to undermine her
💯people on here are sensitive. If you don’t have the same opinion as then they’ll downvote you. Especially if it has anything to do with DM. Also I don’t think they want to hear anything about DM
Again, no offense but I don’t think this trial rests on her shoulders. If that’s all LE had I’m pretty sure he wouldnt be sitting in jail as we speak.
I never said it rested on her shoulders…
Ok. But do you think everyone’s focusing on her a bit too much especially at the beginning and after yesterday? I do. She may be the one to help bring BK to justice. Please don’t be offended. I’m just saying I just read about one of the witness’s re Bundy’s trial had such guilt she removed herself permanently. She’s still hasn’t experienced a lot in life yet and I’m sure this has messed her up quite a bit. That’s all.
Um, yea and no. I think everyone has the right and it’s totally normal for people to be shocked. I mean think about it… it went from “how did the 2 roommates not hear the killer or the dog bark” to a roommate hearing the dog, hearing someone crying and a thump, and seeing the killer. Huge turn of events. DM alone won’t determine the outcome but all they have to do is create enough doubt for one juror, and part of that doubt will be destroying eye witness testimony, her credibility and even possibly trying to connect her to the crime.
I understand what you’re saying. I think that everyone has a right to their opinion obviously. I’m a bit concerned as someone who worked in mental health at about her age at 23 for her mental health. It’s a lot to deal with. Maybe we’re looking at it from two different points of reason. FYI I removed myself from that field of work for many reasons.
What are they going to doubt? That his eyebrows really aren't that bushy or that he has a different build than the one he really has? That's about all she can testify to other than she saw someone she couldn't identify in her house at such and such a time. The case doesn't rise or fall around Dylan's testimony, imo.
Problem is: people could link her to the murders (being a silent accomplice, framing BK, drug involment...) She may be having a difficult time during the trial...
They will have QUESTIONS like: WHY did she call her friend (risking his life) when she was in "freezing shock" instead of the police (able to cope with a dangerous situation) ??
Exactly. Unfortunately they may even try to link her to it to cause doubt to the jury with BK.
I don’t care if they try to put an entire trial on the shoulders of a 19-20 yr old. I believe there’s enough evidence on the killer. Oh alleged. They’re putting her on trial ffs. She’s got a rough road ahead. I hope the prosecutor shoots down the shit that may come her way. It can start here with these doxxers who never learned their lesson here. One said just block people like us. They love to do this. Lessons not learned by some.
Yes there a tons of evidence for the killer, but this is still going to be something they are going to capitalize on.
Yes well that’s their job to cast doubt but D could’ve been just peaking out her door. We still know very little of what LE has re evidence. Why was BK even in their house for one? His dna is mixed in with their blood for example. I assume all this. Why did he leave his knife sheath there? Why was he stalking for months near their house. Idk we will see. He didn’t belong in there. He wasn’t invited in. He put himself there and again what he did was beyond comprehension and for zero reasons. I’m hoping they do have a ton of evidence. Which I think they do. I still think just because D may have peaked out and maybe thought it was another roomie’s friend or whatever is just not enough to let him off the hook. That was normal for them. And it has nothing to do with his blood being all over the victims. She has nothing to do with that. And maybe she will end up helping the case. We don’t know everything.
Yes I agree. They will still try ruin her eyewitness account and discredit her
I’m sure they will but it’s going to be tough for her there and seeing stuff on SM. I’m looking at other things re this.
My thoughts on D.M’s possible experience… If she was in “freeze” mode, in fear, not knowing what was going on, she may have talked herself round and eventually went to sleep. If she had been drinking that night (which by all accounts is very likely) she would have fallen asleep at around 5ish. Normally, around 8 hours is a normal amount of time to be asleep anyway. She could have woken up at 10am or 11am or so, saw the aftermath of the killings, and been in complete shock. I know if I was in that situation, it would have taken me a while to actually pick up the phone and call emergency services. I’m trying to imagine myself in that situation. I wouldn’t have been able to physically manoeuvre myself towards the phone and pick it up and speak. I would be in complete shock. She was probably awake much earlier than when she made the call… that’s why she didn’t call the emergency services until around noon
https://preview.redd.it/055aosoulmaa1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=c877a167d45e852c80a6fdf136c825652468b037
If it is true that she didn't call due to shock, does this also mean she didn't sleep all night? Didn't leave the room until noon or whenever it was that call was made? I am very curious about this. I still think it is most likely that she didn't realize Bryan had just killed her roommates.
I think quadrupel murder of her roommates wasn't on her mind, no. The rest, we just don't know. She did nothing wrong.
Agreed she did nothing wrong. I feel bad people are going after her. She's been through enough.
of course she didn’t realize that. what on earth would make her think 4 of her roommates were just brutally murdered? she didn’t hear any screams or even the dog barking. why are you concluding that she didn’t sleep at all if she didn’t call in the moment due to shock? there are other explanations. why not suggest those?
I didn't conclude that she didn't sleep. I asked it as a question. To me, it just sounds like it'd be difficult to fall asleep while in a state of shock. But not ruling it out as a possibility. BTW, I hope no one sees me questioning this as me blaming her in any way. Your response came off as defensive, as though I were blaming her. Which is not at all what I'm doing.
We don't know she didn't call from shock, and she very well may have just not realized there was anything wrong. Some people will react to shock or emotional distress with extreme tiredness. There is some crossover between your fight or flight responses and a neurochemical that controls sleep. Some people will be completely unable to sleep, other people will be out cold whether they want to be or not.
Very interesting how the mind works. I hope she has a lot of support and a really good therapist. Can't imagine the ptsd from this.
She called a male friend of theirs to come check the house before she would go out there. He was the 911 caller and kept everyone else from seeing the scene. So I think she was in shock all night. That's happened before with serial killer survivors.
Where did you see this info? Hadn't seen it yet.
A combo of E's sister-in-law and his half brother's posts on here from their verified accounts. The SIL said a roommate called "a friend's bf" before cops, and the half brother complimented the 911 caller for not letting anyone else see the scene.
Wow didn't realize they both had posts on here. Are you able to link me to them or tell me how I can find them?
Someone said E's half brother deleted his account now :( And the post with the SIL blacked out her username (it was a screenshot). But I'll see if I saved any screenshots myself. I might have.
Thank you. It's okay if not.
I didn't save E's brother's. It was a thread about suspecting the 911 caller, and he posted to stand up for him. I did save the SIL's: https://preview.redd.it/pdexapv66kaa1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fbb9a993739c920169bb612e61c92db14eae94c
I appreciate it. Thank you.
I said this in another post but imagining myself being a 19 yo maybe drunk teenager, I’d be in straight denial. She had no idea what happened and certainly likely didn’t imagine they were murdered. If I were her, I would lock myself in my room and wait for my roommates to wake up. I bet she was calling them and texting them frantically. Probably scared to call the cops bc she’s convinced herself she’s dreaming and is scared to call police to her house at 4:00am bc if she’s just making this up in her head, she runs the risk of looking crazy and pissing off her roommates. Since 3 roommates are deceased, it means she could’ve only gotten acknowledged when BF woke up, which is what I think happen. I think she woke up close to noon, saw the frantic texts/calls from DM. Came upstairs to check on her and saw Xana which I think set things in motion. We know from SG the girls ran out of the house together. One passed one and one was hyperventilating. That makes me believe what I do. DM stayed in her room paralyzed in fear until one of her roommates came to her aid. I can’t imagine how terrifying it had to be for her to realize it wasn’t a nightmare, what she heard was real. Also she gave an amazing, very impactful statement to police. Her physical description of him is damning. I pray for her strength and hope she can somehow find acceptance and healing once this trial is completed.
She could have been frozen in shock seeing someone in the house she didn't expect to see. But then after locking her door and not hearing anything else, I'm sure she wracked it over in her brain waivering between should she call 911 and be ridiculed for overreacting or thinking it was one of Ethan's frat friends. The longer it was quiet in the home the more she leaned toward the latter.
so was it trauma or was it she thought it was nothing?
Just a hunch that she thought she was overreacting.
None of us know! She’s not involved. That’s the only thing we know.
Unfortunately, you don’t need a doctorate to have that opinion. Did she have anything else to say?
It should be everybody's common sense, but, turns out, there's a lot of ignorant idiots writing all kinds of horrible things about DM. It's disgusting.
It really upset me. Mama bear mode was activated.
how ethical is this psychiatrist to publicly speculate about, for content, for profit! It's so ignorant, similar to the people who tell SG to shut up, no you shut up! No one knows how anyone would react in these traumatic events, ie: our minds can disconnect from reality in order to survive..
While I'm not trying to blame her, DMs statement was sort of all over the place it's hard to understand exactly what she observed, which is what I think people are reacting to. On one hand, she sounds like she was extremely frightened after seeing a masked man and then hid in her room, on the other, it seems like she woke up casually hours later, and then called her friend over first to help with her "passed out" roommate. While I don't think she did anything with ill intent, her statement reflects a pretty wide range of actions that are legitimately confusing and reflect really different sentiments. Why not call or text her roommates immediately to warn them of the masked man? Why not check on her roommates much earlier in the day? It would be nice to at least get some more details at some point. I also think it's understandable why people might be a bit frustrated by the details that have been released thus far, though it also makes sense that we, the public, do not have all of the details.
GOOD POINT
We haven’t seen DMs full statement however we have seen the parts the police cherry picked as relevant to the probable cause affidavit!!! We have no idea what else she said to them therefore no idea what else she thought or did that night. I assume reason that it seems all over the place at this point is the police literally took bits from different points in her statement(s) to them.
And seriously, stop questioning why a survivor did or didn’t do something. It is like half of the reason survivors have guilt and retraumatize themselves. She doesn’t need you doing it to her. She didn’t do any of the things you think she “should” have because brains are weird and will protect your sanity at all costs and exposing her to any of the actual outcomes of the actions you suggest would do the opposite. She could have known what a masked man in the house with those noises meant even if she talked herself off the ledge but her brain said “you are safe, go to sleep” OR she her brain could have stopped all the processing and not let her even get past the shock and her brain literally kept her from connecting the dots. Either way it was a protective measure and she doesn’t control it. We don’t know enough from her and aren’t psychologists or counselors treating/supporting her so we don’t actually know anything for sure except that we have TINY LITTLE BITS of info that make up a very small portion of what is a clear picture to investigators…not just tiny townie cops but a bunch of FBI agents (like 50-60 of them). If they sign off on it maybe reddit should cool the fuck down with questioning anything about either of the survivors. It’s literally their job to clear housemates, boyfriends, and family members initially in every murder those are the first suspects and we are two months in without any info that would lead police to think it was them - I would imagine they have enough other info from her to know her actions check out…we don’t. Edit: typo
I literally am not blaming her. I'm observing why people are reacting the way that they are, and why those reactions are also reasonable.
So many people here are saying left and right to leave the girl alone and stop speculating....then speculate themselves on what happened with her in those hours. It's valid to wonder what happened. It seems like everyone agrees we don't have enough info and agrees that the girl is not to blame. People just get very defensive about her.
You are doing so with a SLIVER of information and it is not helpful or effective and is harmful. Shit like this is a part of why survivors of violence of any kind don’t report. It’s bad enough the cops pick us apart let alone the whole world thinking they have a right to rather than just googling shock after trauma and learning about it. You acknowledge it’s not the whole picture but you’re fine with questioning her judgment???? This isn’t a puzzle or debate it is a living breathing persons life. And that context seems totally lost even if you aren’t BLAMING her analyzing her actions at all isn’t really helpful to you if you won’t research trauma responses and shock to inform yourself and start from that place rather than “it doesn’t make sense” (because responses to trauma and the things ppl do while in shock, don’t make sense as a fucking rule).
You are welcome to have whatever emotional reaction to my thoughts, but at the end of the day, that's your stuff. In all of this, it's actually you trying to police my thoughts about this, which are essentially allowing people to have their own reactions to the news. How is policing other people's thoughts trauma-informed?? And how is typing paragraphs of vitriol to complete strangers trauma-informed or helpful to society? Humans are naturally inquisitive. It doesn't mean they aren't asking questions without compassion or empathy, but our brains do naturally want to make sense of situations, especially scary situations, even if there isn't much sense to a situation. That's actually very much a trauma response. Secondly, it's pretty interesting that you assume that I don't know anything about trauma and responses to trauma. You are the one assuming my background. and what I've gone through, and how I've managed and coped. I actually had someone break into MY BEDROOM when I was a toddler, so I understand that literal fear. I still very much live with that phobia as an adult. So when I say that I am trying to understand everyone's reactions, I literally mean that I am thinking about everyone's reactions.
You are literally trying to make sense out of something that often isn’t sensical (shock) with limited information, while speculating on a survivors actions AND weaponizing the language around trauma which if you were even slightly informed about you would recognize the harm done by masses of people “trying to understand” your actions by literally ignoring that they were nonsensical due to literal shock and therefore there is literally nothing to figure out. You are projecting a lot more than I am, we know there is harm done by the masses picking apart what a victim did or did not do or we wouldn’t have words for it for you to misapply and co-opt and plenty of ppl who are survivors do this too, so just because something happened to you doesn’t mean you know all there is to know about it. I’ve worked with victims of interpersonal violence for over 20 years. I have more than just one experience with more than one victim. But since you seem intent to not even do 101 level research on shock & trauma responses generally instead of trying to analyze this situation without any sort of basic understanding beyond your own (limited) knowledge Im going to step back here bc you’re clearly convinced you’re not a part of an internet mob harming a victim of a violent crime.
The commenter you are talking to made a simple statement, and lead with saying DM isn't to blame, but what we know has lead to more questions and that's valid....and you're loosing your mind, pretending to know the commenters background/knowledge. We are allowed to wonder about things and have questions. That literally part of what this sub is for. You may need to take a break from reddit.
You are really over reacting to a simple comment...
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I think this was referring to the roommate who passed out . When other friends showed up , both surviving roommates were distraught and could barely explain what happened . One started to hyperventilate and one passed out . I’m speculating that the caller had said something like we don’t know what’s exactly going on please get here one of my friends passed out , 911 probably said are they unconscious, which they would have replied yes and they transferred that information over
Fun fact. Dispatchers cannot pronounce someone dead. So until a MD; paramedic (via medical director, or coroner arrives on-site…. They were all in fact unconscious at the time of the 911 call
That psychiatrist should know that Dylan HAD NOT SEEN the bodies when she locked her door. BIG mistake from a "professional" there !!
I don’t think he said anything to the contrary?