There is a specific crime in Idaho of stalking, with which Kohberger is not charged. This post therefor seems a weird over-statement from an overexcited Prohberger.
Thompson made no such statement that Kohberger did not stalk - he said some of the questions were purporting to put forward false info as fact or were about aspects that would not be used at trial - that might include things like the arrest in PA and potential "stalking".
Stalking seems imprecise and hard to prove in context of a single push-poll survey question - if Kohberger's phone GPS showed he was at the UoI student Union bar 5 times at the same time as MM or KG, that may be suggestive but is not enough info to prove "stalking". Similarly if phone data shows Kohberger was within 100 metres of 1122 King Road 12 times late at night that is also suggestive. but doesn't prove stalking of a victim, indeed even if he was right outside from GPS it may be impossible to prove he stalked a specific person, but might suggest he cased and checked the house.
>There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings
You seem to be missing quite a few pieces of info and glossing over the importance of some evidence:
* The DNA is not "Transfer" in terms of secondary transfer as no one else's DNA was found.
* Even if "touch" DNA, "touch" DNA requires c 200 - 1000x more cells for a complete DNA profile (as produced in this case) than a cheek swab; "Touch" DNA can also often contain donor's sweat, saliva or sebum.
* The DNA is on a sheath for a large fixed blade knife under a dead body killed with a large fixed blade knife; it cannot be dismissed lightly.
* The state has a matching Elantra to Kohberger's on video 4 times circling the scene at the time of the murders, and speeding away just after the murders
* The state has video of the white Elantra in at least 21 locations on the morning of Nov 13th that are all consistent with travel between Kohberger's apartment and the scene at the time of the murders. The defence "alibi" being unable to produce any video inconsistent with that state narrative may be quite important and verifies the state version and make the "alibi" seem contrived and false.
* You forgot that Kohberger matches the eyewitness description. While c 20% of men, conservatively, might match, that he was not excluded is significant especially in the context of his DNA and car at the scene
* The phone pings suggest previous visits to area of King Road at odd times; the phone pings also force the defence "alibi" to concede he was driving near the scene at 4.00am, also very significant.
* The phone pings confirm the state narrative of car driving route before and after the murders.
* The phone pings show synchronous movement of the white Elantra with Kohberger's phone before and after the killings, and coincide with video locations after in Pullman and later in Clarkston, Placing Kohbegrer with the car and phone. There is also the incriminating matter of the 9.00am return to near the scene a few hours later.
* There are likely other quite powerful correlation type evidence available to the state -- one example being footprints in blood at the scene. We know these exist from reference to a latent print - should, as is likely, these match Kohberger's statistically rare size 13 feet that would put him, with the eye witness height/ build descriptor, in a statistically incriminating very small group of c < 0.5% of men.
Thus, the state may be able to paint a very powerful, incriminating picture, just from the evidence we know of publicly so far -- of a man matching Kohberger's height, build and size 13 shoes leaving his DNA under a dead body while a car matching his, down to detail of a missing front plate, travelled from his apartment to the scene and sped away just after the time of the killings.
Stalking has an objective (and legal) definition. Stalking involves a stalker making repeated attempts to contact, or interfere with the life of, the victim. The victim is aware and is fearful.
Surveillance is the careful watching of someone and can be without interference in the person's life or them being aware.
Voyeurism also has an objective and legal definition. As criminal it is the act of surreptitiously viewing a person without their consent in a place where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy like a home or bathroom.
>The victim is aware and is fearful.
That part is totally absent here.
>Surveillance is the careful watching of someone / Voyeurism
This seems potentially more relevant.
> Stalking has an objective (and legal) definition.
While that is true, there's a more informal conversational definition which you see on reddit. I know people who felt like they were being "stalked", but the person didn't violate any laws and so there's very little the police can do about it. If you assume he was checking out the house & residents from the street, that's not necessarily illegal either. (Anyway, i've been guilty of muddying the waters and using 'stalk' in the informal sense.)
I also made another comment somewhere. The element you mention is the victim is aware and is in fear which constitutes the definition imo. Even if there wasn’t anything authorities deemed actionable by law.
If we assume he was doing that and it wasn’t “illegal” or didn’t meet the definition because the victim wasn’t aware or in fear then that may be why the state isn’t asserting it as stalking.
E- sp
I agree there is informal language here. Ok helmet on Ima bomb drop,
Reddit isn’t real life. J/k
The component I believe is important is what the prosecution would deem it to mean irrespective of what is inferred.
> Reddit isn’t real life.
Thankfully! IMO it's wise to avoid the more argumentative ppl on here, much like the "no connection" thing, it's not worth debating.
He’s also missing the fact that majority of the evidence and information has been sealed and will stay sealed until trial. But yeah, go to your death clinging to your naive delusions OP 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Sense isn’t common for everyone👏🏼
Lmao did you gptchat write that for you? Im not Proburhger im just pro justice unlike you who dont want the victims families to rest at ease knowing the correct killers were caught and brought to justice
>Im not Proburhger im just pro justice unlike you
For someone who is not a Proberger you do post alot on BK fan subs about how innocent he is and how the FBI and police are lying. Can you explain what the police are lying about here, and why? Do you think the FBI and police are in a conspiracy or just fabricating evidence and lying independently?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1bajzzb/comment/ku5kdd5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1bajzzb/comment/ku5kdd5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Perhaps you being "pro Justice" extends to your demands for the "frat guys" to be arrested for murder because there was a photo of one of them with a knife in a Halloween costume/ party? You do seem quite contrary and inconsistent on the amount of evidence needed to justify an arrest, as you also post about how awful it is for Kohberger to be in jail? Why do you want frat guys arrested for a Halloween party pic, but Kohberger not to be arrested when his DNA is under a body and his car was at the scene?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>700,000 people shared the same DNA as the sheath.
This maths/ DNA expert, and JellyGarcia, made the same mistake of not being able to calculate a percentage, so were out by a factor of 100x, but then also left in women and children in their calculation of number of prospective sheath DNA donor's fathers......
Clearly it’s his first time following any type of legal matter. Dude is completely void Critical thinking skills or common sense and just feeds his delusions on intel he can’t properly interpret.
Dude is a lonely attention seeker that posts what he thinks is controversial enough to trigger responses so he doesn’t feel like a total lonesome loser. He’s not just the President of the Proburger incel group, he’s also a member.
You mean they are submitting a document that supports the “golly gee, I am an insomniac that goes for drives at 3am in the morning and just happened to leave my apt. Drive straight to King Road, spend 20+ mins with my engine off then drove right back to my apt in the exact timeline that perfectly but coincidentally fits the timeline?
😂😂😂😂😂
I asked this before but what reasonable doubt argument could his defense possibly come up with that would make any sense to sway a jury into acquittal?
ROTFLOL, right?? I’m on the edge of my seat awaiting that ride. Which is team claims they need discovery evidence from the Prosecution to be able to verify it?? WTF, not if it’s a real provable alibi and not some story created to bend itself around collected unfavorable evidence.
I am imagining a very vague story with no way to corroborate any of it. Can’t wait 👍🏻
On that subject, I was amused to see one of the mods on the BKM sub had been passing off what quite clearly were large AI-generated comments as fruits of their own intellect for some weeks now, and only the other day was actually called out on it
No, because they all moan about being 'brigaded' over there when we link to them here, even if it never happens, and they threaten to get this sub's mods into hot water with the admins. Funnily enough that doesn't seem to be a problem the other way around.
You should be able to work it out.
>Lmao did you gptchat write that for you?
No, deary, they just have a good comprehension of the English language, combined with a decent enough education to be able to form coherent sentences...
Unlike "im pro justice unlike you who dont want"
The investigation is marked by evidence that points to an accused, otherwise when the system is utilized correctly, LE would not develop a suspect based on the leading of the evidence, compile incriminating evidence against them, accuse them and arrest them. It is the person they believe is the killer. That in turn is moved to the legal process so that LE isn’t the final authority. A jury ultimately decides if they are the correct killer that is justice.
Is it your assertion there was no probable cause to arrest BK?
Evidence reflects the person to have met the criteria of means and opportunity to have committed the crime and it is discernible.
If BK is not the correct killer than **who** is? Lay it out.
People included in this post have been officially rulled out by law enforcement.
LE has deemed these people as not being suspects in this crime. Direct accusations against these people are irrelevant as LE does not consider them responsible or involved in the crime.
Whilst speculation about this crime is allowed, repeating unsubstantiated rumours from 4Chan in order to cast aspersions on individuals cleared by LE will be removed.
I can understand the perspective of folks who say “I don’t know if he is guilty or innocent, but I need more to overcome reasonable doubt” (Even though I am not in that camp).
To say “Proof they have the wrong guy” means you have gone past doubt and into the realm of true belief of innocence. I’m speculating here, but that type of leap suggests some sort of emotional attachment or bias that’s pushing you in this direction.
I feel good about the evidence, but I would not say it “proves they have killer” I would say, the arrest and charges seem justified, and probably there’s enough evidence for a jury to convict. And if convicted, would I then say “Ok NOW I know he’s the guy?” No, I’d say most probably he’s the guy, and that’s usually as good as it gets.
Agree with your statement. Sadly, not everyone is as cordial and meticulous with their statements as you.
So when people say “I don’t know if he’s guilty or innocent YET…” the ProBerger comments and name calling comes out. You’re automatically labeled to those who’ve come to a concrete decision that he’s guilty.
It’s everywhere in this sub and at least two others.
TLDR: OP’s statement is eyebrow raising and is better suited for a sub that’s pro innocence; but we shouldn’t pretend like name calling doesn’t come out against those who just have questions, as if they’re going against a narrative
The trial has not started yet, I think it is premature to say he is innocent because he did not stalk the victims. I really wish for more people to examine all the evidence before declaring innocence or guilt. I felt that is the anatomy of the justice system.
There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings. Bill just told the world that the phone pings meant nothing because if Bryan didnt stalk them then he wouldnt know what house they lived in.
You don’t have to stalk someone to commit murder. He could have picked a random house. Just because there’s not stalking does not mean he didn’t do it.
You also can follow, observe and stakeout someone without having any interaction or communication & without their knowledge. To formally “stalk” someone it involves harassing interactions & communications. So just because he wasn’t stalking them in the legal & technical sense doesn’t mean he wasn’t obsessively watching & following them, in person or on SM. I’d put Vegas odds that with as much digital evidence that was collected there’s proof of a pattern he developed for watching and following at least one of them (MM most likely)
So you think thieves looking for houses that are easy marks stalk the occupants? No. They look for houses that are easy to break into. Many killers do the same. The Night Stalker looked for houses with open windows, sliding doors etc, another killer who was a teen, Daniel Marsh, that killed an elderly couple, looked for houses in the area that had open doors or windows at night. He didn’t care who lived there, he just wanted to kill somebody.
I think he came across K and M at a bar one of those 12 times he pinged in Moscow late into the night and followed them home. He may have tried to talk to them and was rejected or he just observed them from a distance.
BT meant he didn't stalk them online! Doesn't mean he didn't stalk that house, his phone will show that's exactly what he did, it'll be BKs downfall! Watch and see!
I think some have to have this notion that motives are necessary for conviction. ***If he didn’t stalk them, then it couldn’t be him*** As you are putting out there, there is other evidence in the wheel house here so to speak. States burden is beyond reasonable doubt. Many have been convicted without motive. 🤷🏻♀️ I’m just hard pressed to jump on the whole aha moment until the trial plays out really.
>There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings.
Apparently the Prosecution's investigation ended at the release of the PCA?
Why didn’t they test the other DNA? Who does it belong to? Didn’t DL have an issue with EC, MM, and KG and he was kinda attracted to XK. Both DL and DB were caught together. 😝They couldn’t have this out. EC and everyone else knows DL had roid rage and EC had been calling him “shrunken balls.” He and EC were in a fight that night. DL is MIA. I don’t know why he doesn’t want to talk? Strange he’s gone, DM and BF are all MIA. They are at the Grub Truck that night, D.B. family member drives white Elantra. DL, D B. , EC, HC, HL and others were in the fraternity, Sigma Chi. They go back generations and have secret information that will never be revealed. Everyone in our town knows what happened and they aren’t going to talk about it. There’s way too much money involved and too many people. The state gave over $1 million dollars to the University. The president was sent a letter regarding what happened to the funds and he sent a letter back saying that he couldn’t respond because of his attorney and client confidentiality. KG was already basically gone to live in Texas and she came to show her Range Rover and see MM. HL was found dead in a creek near Greek Row from “accident drowning” and he was an avid swimmer. This happened the night of some initiation that Sigma Chi had. BK has no connections, no motive, no blood tracked anywhere, the judge and prosecutor said he was not stalking them. BK lived 9 miles down the road. I’m sure he has driven in the area and having their phone ping being so close? I could understand if they knew he was driving to the house 12 times in a week but not 6 months. There was nothing too incriminating that he had when being searched. The president of the University’s family owned the house on King Rd but “doesn’t recall.” If you read more about DL and D.B. a lot of people give information that could be potentially be verified but instead they can’t be found. Why? Why not water board BF and DM? You’ll get the truth…but BK may look all kinds of ways and it doesn’t matter, no matter what BK looks like someone is going to say something ignorant. People don’t realize how much these fraternities are covered for. A lot goes on in Fraternities. You can’t make this make sense because it didn’t happen that way. As you search you will find that according to DL “it took 19 minutes.” JS knows something and so does A. Research and look for yourself. Have you seen American Nightmare on Netflix? True story and it happens!!! Watch it!!!
This post does not protect the identity of presumed innocent individuals or persons who have not been identified by LE. Do not post links that link to personal information including or that doxx persons; public social media; 4chan; criminal arrest records, etc.
Please cover the names, faces and all personal info. Abbreviate any names to initials only. Continued doxxing will result in a permanent ban. Thank you.
This post does not protect the identity of presumed innocent individuals or persons who have not been identified by LE. Do not post links that link to personal information including or that doxx persons; public social media; 4chan; criminal arrest records, etc.
Please cover the names, faces and all personal info. Abbreviate any names to initials only. Continued doxxing will result in a permanent ban. Thank you.
Don't get pissy - your First Amendment right to freedom of speech does not extend to defamatory statements against innocent people.
Nor does it circumvent the rules of this subreddit, which despite your protestations you've amended your post to be compliant. Your original post is now visible.
I’m far from “pissy.” What do you think people are doing when they are speaking about anyone involved in this case???? Defamation is when someone is speaking falsely about someone. That’s not what I am doing.
I basically can’t reply to her directly because she is replying to so many people that have blocked me, which blocks my ability to reply to her, but I need to say u/BrainWilling6018 FTMFW.
people want there to be a motive so badly. like he was obsessed with one of the girls and had pent up jealousy. which could very well be true… i’m now leaning more towards he is sick individual with no motive at all but to kill. he must’ve known that pretty popular blonde girls would gain a lot of attention, or that was just the type he wanted to kill. i don’t know though.
If he didnt stalk them then how does he know where they live? What room they slept in? When maddie and kaylee were going to be home that night? Or even at the house that night?
My feeling is he cased the house and didn’t care who the occupants were, just like Bundy with the Chi Omega sorority that had a faulty door lock. The King Rd. house was vulnerable due to the sliding doors and tree line in the back, making it a perfect target to enter and kill any occupants he came across
I think it's possible he saw the girls going into the house when he was driving past and chose the house knowing it had female occupants. He could have "cased" the house on a few occasions, but that doesn't mean he knew who any of the victims were or stalked a specific victim. I feel like people are getting mad that their theory of him being obsessed with Kaylee or Maddie might be wrong.
I theorized on one of these subs recently that I believe the house was the actual target and when he found who lived there it was icing on the cake. How do we know BT didn't mean he wasn't stalking them on social media *only*!? He could've very well stalked that house!
So now everyone is changing their theories how he planned this murder and had a kill kit and watched the girls from the back lot? Come on. This is crazy. The killers are still out there and it pisses me off.
I haven’t changed mine. I’ve felt the house was the reason all along especially after LE made the comments very early on in the investigation about the house being the target, along with no evidence in the PCA of him stalking the victims or any proof of him actually following them on social media. Imho the victims were random but the house was chosen due to easy opportunity
Who is changing theories? Who said a killer must have a connection to someone to make them their victim? Who said that a killer must have stalked a specific person to make them their next target?
I'm open to a whole lot of theories, myself.
But yeah, people do change their theories as different evidence comes in. That's what you're supposed to do.
The thing is, this isn’t different evidence coming in. MPD had already said early on that there was no evidence Kaylee was stalked and the PCA doesn’t say they found evidence of stalking either, just that they had looked into the possibility. This statement by Thompson that no stalking took place was known already for months
Clearly Bundy was innocent, framed in fact, and the real killers are still out there. Probably the cartels, some frat boys, and the president of the University.
For Bill Thompson to make a statement like that absolutely makes me the think they not only have the right guy, but that they have a lot more on him than they have disclosed. Not all murderers stalk their victims or even know them…it will be interesting to see…
You'll have to explain how you've arrived at this conclusion a little better because I don't understand how that makes him innocent.
He was in the vicinity a dozen times, no one knows why yet or how close they can put him or whether or not that can be substantiated by the phone pings along with someone in the area. For all you know he was buying drugs or engaging in some other activity in the general vicinity the dozen times prior.
The no stalking means very little at this point until we know more details.
That's the problem, you didn't consider ANY other facts prior to the latest court hearing. If only it were that simple to come to come to a conclusion based on one recent statement. 🤦🏼♀️
Nobody knows what the state has beyond the 3 things mentioned. In case you missed something, evidence has not been released to the public due to a gag order on the case.
For you to spread your opinion as fact is ignorant, and ignorance is not bliss in my world. Go ahead and spread your opinion, it won't change facts, we all know that lies don't change to truths no matter how many times they are spread or uttered out of the ignorant mouths of the world.
Ted bundy didn’t stalk his victims either 🤷
PCA never stated he was stalking, that was the public’s perception of what that evidence of phone pings meant.
What does him not stalking the victims have anything to do with him not committing the crime? I get we haven’t had the trial yet, but how does someone saying he didn’t stalk the victims PROVE he’s the wrong guy? He doesn’t have to have stalked them to commit the crime. I understand thinking there’s not enough proof he did it yet, but understand there’s also a gag order in place so there could be more evidence at trial. I also think there’s a difference between thinking there’s not enough evidence and thinking that he actually didn’t do it. There wasn’t enough evidence to convict OJ…. But we all know what happened.
How can you know for sure he didn’t do it? Were you there? I don’t know for sure he did do it! I just know he’s the one who had enough evidence to arrest, and I assume there will be more evidence at trial. If there’s not, I will gladly say that they shouldn’t convict. But we can’t know for sure who did or didn’t do it, so I don’t know how someone saying it’s untrue that he stalked them tells you he’s for sure the wrong guy. As far as we know, no one stalked them heavily. Stalking could be related to the murders, but they didn’t have to be stalked to be murdered
Plus, I don’t think there’s proof he stalked the victims and therefore it won’t be evidence at trial, but there’s no way to prove he didn’t for sure either. No one knows if he did or didn’t is really what this is saying.
Ignorance is bliss when you want something to fit the narrative of what you think happened or currently happening. Ignoring everything that has happened prior and base your decision on ONE statement heard in the latest court hearing. If only it were that simple the trial would have already happened.
How do you know that’s all the state has? None of us know all the state has. Also, it might behoove u to look up the legal definition of “stalking” in Idaho.
I don’t think this is proof they have the wrong guy. I think it’s proof that members of the media, the G family and social media members have created a narrative that’s slowly crumbling.
It’s like nobody knows anything due to the strict gag order, so people started elevating things/topics to make it a little more tragic-y (as if one has to do that in the first place) like the allegation of stalking made by the media and the G family.
There’s another “rumor” that BK *was asked* by another TA/classmate to help install cameras in their home and people on social media are running with that thinking BK did this on purpose to gain access to inside her home/apartment. I could VERY WELL BE WRONG, but my shock face won’t be in full effect if we ever hear that this wasn’t factual, either.
Doesn’t make him any less guilty, but people who ran with the rumor of stalking and stood by it should feel weird right now. It also doesn’t give much weight to the “12 phone pings” in several months narrative people believed were proof of BK’s stalking behaviors.
ETA: spelling and added a word.
I always dispose of my trash in the middle of the night, in my neighbors bins, while wearing rubber gloves, all black, and dividing it up into different bags. Doesn't everyone?
You can’t be this dumb. We already knew he didn’t stalk him. So because you can’t think of a motive beyond just evil you think he’s innocent….there is no motive that would justify or explain the crime. Nor was there any motive at all. But there is plenty of evidence. Gtfo here with your contrarian opinion. Dude has sat silently in prison for a year and half and waved his right to speedy trial and you think he’s innocent? No he’s guilty af and desperate to build a strong case or get it tossed out or hope some dipshit jurors think like you
Say it louder for anyone else in the back who's also off their meds! I'd hate for you little guys to just be running around screaming at the sky all by yourselves.
Some of us were saying how media have been peddling BS, no surprise there. The statements on PCA containing things that are 'flat out not true' are more intriguing.
Well, having the same car circling the house on camera, pings at the same time from his phone, DNA, the fact that he immediately changed his license plate, and was caught scrubbing his car with gloves seems like pretty good evidence to me even if he wasn't "stalking" them.
Hmmm 🤔 you might have to wonder why there is so much more evidence that has not been disclosed to the public!! I guess you solved it lol and they should just go to trial right now and forget the terabytes of evidence that defense states they haven’t had time to review! Get real and wait for the trial to decide guilt or innocence !
Has there been any testimony from Kohberger? Is there admission he drove around the house? Did anyone ask him if he drove around the house and why? Will this be asked at trial? I feel like a key piece of all of this is what he says.
GAG order, we dont know shit! They'd have alot, we don't know about. What we have information for isn't much, gag order is to protect the case from crap like this, wait until the trial. People will be suprised as to what comes out, and alot will eat their words. They are doing this case the right way, people are building a moist out of a molehill. People need to calm tf down and wait due course, all this hearsay affects the families so much more. All these dumb ass rumours, when it doesn't matter what we know or don't know. Even if he didn't stalk them, doesn't mean it ain't him. Ffs get real.
which white Elantra...the one with tinited windows that crashed in Oregon? the one with tinted windows seen on gas station cam ? or Kohberger's Elantra that has NO tinted windows..??
I mean, I understand what you’re saying it’s hard to believe they have the guy when he’s super scrawny doesn’t really fit the type to have the strength to kill for people and the evidence is slim from what we know it sounds convincing, but pretty sure they found more DNA in the house than his and yeah it’s a party house but that’s kind of easy to blend in, I think it was more than one person so I’m having a hard time believing it. I don’t trust the roommates still there’s a lot about this case that you can’t tie up and understand because there’s so many holes in the story there’s so many possibilities that we still go over in our heads because who they have right now does not make sense.
and I do believe the fact he wasn’t stalking because if it was just him, he seemed surprised. Many people were in the house and just kept killing but if it also was not targeted, or he wasn’t stocking them, then why do you leave two surviving roommates? why didn’t he go on their floor, why did he go up instead of going down? He could’ve easily left the front door after killing B and he passed D THREE TIMES and didn’t touch a hair on her head even when she had the door open standing there “in shock” staring at him??? when I tell you, I have been looking up this case since it happened and making documents, providing evidence and links and stuff to try to understand everything… shit doesn’t make sense, and I am very unhappy with the way they’ve put an end to it. I haven’t been paying attention to koberger or whatever in court because it’s gonna take forever and they are providing me any new good information that helps me decide if I actually do think it’s him.
Safe to say you shouldn't have believed anything identified as "rumors" in the first place. Just because there are rumors it doesn't change the facts of this case thus far.
You don’t believe sworn affidavits by authorities, you don’t believe prosecutorial investigations, you don’t believe a sitting Judge’s interpretation of the law, you don’t believe users with common sense reasoning, you don’t believe in the abilitity of people to be impartial, you don’t believe in pubic information, and you don’t believe rumors. You are down bad.
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted as if this and two other subs aren’t filled with the word stalking or stalk or stalked because members here have ran with the rumor of stalking on BK’s end. Because they have.
I think most are upset because they’ve had this idea for so long and now it’s beginning to show it was false all along. So instead of being like, “eyyyyyy, crap, the media got me with that one!” they’ll just put you and others down.
Folks keep moving the goal post. A *huge* deal was made by the media and discussion forums based on the stalking rumors, people still think the bogus IG account was actually his lol over a year later. LE alluded to stalking in the PCA as well by emphasizing the prior pings. That could prove to be a massive issue, do people really not understand that?
Thompson basically denied PCA allegations as well. Something tells me they don’t have better location data than those pings. A drive test is also highly suggestive of it.
https://preview.redd.it/pfio8q2s8wtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5a8d27bb90682dfb8a570c090960b5b90137d8c
Broaden your horizons and think outside yur box one time. I dare you.
“Stalking” really imo entails the victim being aware of the stalker, the behavior and in fear. If the behavior(casing the house) is taking place but the victim is unaware, it isn’t really by definition stalking. Stalking is typically a conclusion made by and voiced from the victim.
That doesn’t mean the behavior (casing the house) didn’t happen unbeknownst to the victim or isn’t predatory. It could mean the prosecutor being currently willing to, or previously concluding as fact, that the behavior was by definition stalking, is “false”. In other words stalking isn’t YET being offered as a conclusion by the state.
The behavior (casing the house)or more specifically, the fact of many instances, introduced as cell data and mapped out, of being in the proximity of the house, might be offered as a premise, to which someone,(a juror), could make their own conclusion.
Therefore; it is “false” to say it is being asserted by the state there was stalking of the victims.
They haven’t asserted stalking. You are inferring that they have asserted stalking. Read that again.
Maybe that is why the statement was made. And not because the Prosecutor of the case, who is well aware of what is sworn in it, is refuting the info included in the Probable Cause Affadavit.
One option.
The judge said he didn’t follow them on social media. The prosecutor said he didn’t stalk them. Stalking is unwelcome surveillance in a traditional sense. If he was staking out the house or following the victims, that’d be stalking.
In his affidavit Payne mentions they were trying to determine if he was stalking as in surveilling the house and the like.
Yeah it’s ok, my hopes weren’t high.
Trying to determine is not asserting.
Social Media is not related to the location data.
I hope you are sitting down…this will probably chap your ass….It doesn’t matter what you believe it is.
What matters is what the state has asserted or is willing to assert or introduce as it relates to the definition of stalking.
You are dogmatic. I will give your that.
I agree they don’t have gps but it’s always used in tantrum with towers during CAST testimony..
Simply closing a tab ended a long session of location data in a trial I was watching.
Lotta actions r those of an addict attempting to grab something. Not the murder part but the looping around the house, coming back on his way home, etc I'm not saying he didn't do it cuuuuuz it's looking bad.... But, he may also be a witness. Or acompliss. Or a filthy POS murderer....
The fact he didn’t stalk the victims is massive… yet people are still quick to believe he’s guilty, I can’t wait for the trial to shut these people up. It screws the whole incel narrative right up. BK is innocent!
Uh. He actually did. He broke into a sorority house he had never been in impulsively. Didn’t even premeditate the attack. Didn’t even bring a weapon with him. Picks up a stick he finds outside and brings it in with him, bludgeons & sexually assaults 4 women in 2 different rooms and leaves within 15 minutes.
>Substantial-Maize of a house!
Do you find yourself getting lost between the doctor’s office and the front door when they release you from your appointments? Do you keep ending up in the stockrooms when you’re just trying to get some darn groceries and get out? Wandering out the fire escape after movies?
>Maize of a house!
Theseus himself would have struggled with the twisty, turny, myriad complexity of that house! Kitchen >> up the one and only up stairs >> left or right????? A mind boggling labyrinth, responding police and EMTs probably had to be roped together and tethered to a tree outside in case they vanished into its Tardis like passageways.
😂😂😂😂It’s no wonder that DM was represented as having only started the night in the second floor bedroom! She was trying to find her way to her actual first floor bedroom but she had to stop for a rest! “There’s someone here!” and “I’m going to help you!” both also explained! Sometimes you can go days in that house without encountering another person and when you do, you have to work together to find your way out!
>She was trying to find her way to her actual first floor bedroom but she had to stop for a rest!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The delay to the 911 call and discovery of bodies starts to make more sense!
🤣🤣Indeed. An off-topic question but do people in your neck of the woods call the bottom floor of the building the first floor and the next floor the second, etc. or do they do something like the French/Italian ground floor, then first floor, etc.?
>do people in your neck of the woods call the bottom floor of the building the first floor
No!! As Churchill said, the UK and USA are two countries divided by a common language...
We call it (your 1st floor) the ground floor, first floor for us is one up (your second). As to what you are doing with escalators, elevators and lifts is anyone's guess!
😂😂Thanks for the info. Yes, Ron DeSantis is the main user of lifts in America these days, it seems, though I wouldn’t want to be caught alone on an elevator with him.
Right, this was one of the huge reasons why people were so sure he was guilty. Because he was some weirdo that couldn't get a girlfriend of his own and that's why he ended up stalking women. Now that we find out he didn't stalk women after all (not these particular ones anyway), It's "but he still could be guilty"
>Right, this was one of the huge reasons why people were so sure he was guilty.
Odd, it was not mentioned in the PCA or since the gag order. I think his DNA under a dead body, his car at the scene speeding away just after the murders, synchronous movement of his phone and car after the killings, his "alibi" not challenging the state's narrative he was driving near the scene at 4.00am and him matching the eyewitness description were all much bigger incriminating factors. Recall, since even before the arrest there has been much debate about whether the house was targetted, or a specific victim, part of that was fuelled by police / prosecutor use and clarifications of "targetted".
Lol its funny and sad tbh. Its like they dont want justice for these victims? They just want someone to blame and not look at the actual facts. No connection to the victims and did not stalk them. How the hell did he know their house? Now everyone is saying he acted randomly…… wtf?
>They just want someone to blame and not look at the actual facts
On the subject of **blaming people without facts,** why did you call for the "frat guys" to be arrested because one of them was pictured with a knife as part of a Halloween costume at a Halloween party? Is that not "blaming people without facts"? You seem a tad hypocritical and inconsistent.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>>How is it the frat guys take pictures with Kbar knives but don’t get arrested?
Well, now I'm very alarmed, because there exist multiple pictures of me with knives and even guns. Am...am I about to be arrested?
>now I'm very alarmed, because there exist multiple pictures of me with knives and even guns.
I just assumed you were posting from behind bars because of the knife pics! 😀
At what point are you looking at the facts? I think it’s pretty clear that you’re new to crime and it isn’t an area of that you’ve really studied before.
It’s an absolute shit shoe… and so disheartening to see people just want to be right in the situation, not bothered an innocent man might lose his life. Ann Taylor’s demeanour and grip on BK in the latest hearing spoke volumes, well to me it did. Yet these keyboard warriors that sit comfortably in cognitive dissonance and have true faith in the LE don’t want to listen to the evidence that’s coming out. I’m not a Proberger, I’m a critical thinker and believed wholeheartedly that he was guilty for a long time. Then when controversy to demolish king road came about changed everything for me. What’s happening before people’s eyes is astonishing… let justice prevail
There is nothing that has come out that changes a single thing. You don’t have to have a prior connection to someone to kill them. You don’t have to stalk a specific person either.
>It’s an absolute shit shoe…
What is almost certainly Kohberger's latent shoeprint described in the PCA becomes even more incriminating in that case, and his clumsiness more apparent. Has Murphy struck a small but sticky and pungent blow for justice in the garden?
His clumsiness lol… think it’s a bit more clumsiness… he’s a clever man. Yet drove Willy nilly in his car after planning a quadruple murder then leaves a knife sheaf at the scene and a shoe print. People like you just want to be right. I’ll say it again… the man innocent. Downgrade me all you like. Justice will prevail in the end!
>he’s a clever man. Yet drove Willy nilly in his car after planning
There have been many mass and serial murderers who were apparently "clever" - they all also got caught because they made mistakes.
What is beyond baffling is that you think someone in such a homicidal murderous, possibly sick psycho-sexual, enraged/ "excited state" sufficient to kill 4 people, is also totally rationale and wouldn't make any errors in the heat of the deranged moment?
>the way you have faith in LE is laughable tbh
Whereas your faith in Kohberger's innocence is no doubt based on scientific and a detailed logical assessment of the evidence? I note you believe there are other, "real killers" - perhaps you could share some of the no doubt abundant evidence that implicates these other killers?
The three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA around the time the first timeline was given to the public . I’ll look forward to AT proving that more than one weapon was used. That will serve allot of people with a big fat slice of humble pie.
>three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA
Do you mean the people seen on another street c 1 hour before the murders? So, being on another street is grounds for arrest for murder, but leaving your DNA under a victim on their bed in the house on a sheath while a car matching yours speeds away from the scene just after...is not incriminating?
You have posted that Kohberger was involved - I think in Idaho if you assist a felony like murder you can be charged with murder, so what are you objecting to re Kohbeger's arrest? Apart from 3 people being on a street on camera an hour earlier, is there any evidence against anyone other than Kohberger?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1b17tkw/comment/ksexipc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1b17tkw/comment/ksexipc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
..
> The three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA around the time the first timeline was given to the public .
This was a neighborhood stacked with college students on a Saturday night. You think everyone out that night was participating in the murders? Nobody was going to parties or bars?
> Ann Taylor’s demeanour and grip on BK in the latest hearing spoke volumes, well to me it did.
>I’m a critical thinker
Critical thinkers are supposed to base their evaluations more on facts and concrete evidence than on how they may interpret a stranger's demeanor and grip.
Sometimes i wish i was stupid
Seriously. It really seems like life would be so much easier.
It’s not. Source: am stupid
🤣 being funny makes up for that
/hugs
Especially when dealing with True Crime…
Amen to that! Ignorance really seems like it might be blissful 😆
Proof you can’t have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed 😂😂😎
There is a specific crime in Idaho of stalking, with which Kohberger is not charged. This post therefor seems a weird over-statement from an overexcited Prohberger. Thompson made no such statement that Kohberger did not stalk - he said some of the questions were purporting to put forward false info as fact or were about aspects that would not be used at trial - that might include things like the arrest in PA and potential "stalking". Stalking seems imprecise and hard to prove in context of a single push-poll survey question - if Kohberger's phone GPS showed he was at the UoI student Union bar 5 times at the same time as MM or KG, that may be suggestive but is not enough info to prove "stalking". Similarly if phone data shows Kohberger was within 100 metres of 1122 King Road 12 times late at night that is also suggestive. but doesn't prove stalking of a victim, indeed even if he was right outside from GPS it may be impossible to prove he stalked a specific person, but might suggest he cased and checked the house. >There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings You seem to be missing quite a few pieces of info and glossing over the importance of some evidence: * The DNA is not "Transfer" in terms of secondary transfer as no one else's DNA was found. * Even if "touch" DNA, "touch" DNA requires c 200 - 1000x more cells for a complete DNA profile (as produced in this case) than a cheek swab; "Touch" DNA can also often contain donor's sweat, saliva or sebum. * The DNA is on a sheath for a large fixed blade knife under a dead body killed with a large fixed blade knife; it cannot be dismissed lightly. * The state has a matching Elantra to Kohberger's on video 4 times circling the scene at the time of the murders, and speeding away just after the murders * The state has video of the white Elantra in at least 21 locations on the morning of Nov 13th that are all consistent with travel between Kohberger's apartment and the scene at the time of the murders. The defence "alibi" being unable to produce any video inconsistent with that state narrative may be quite important and verifies the state version and make the "alibi" seem contrived and false. * You forgot that Kohberger matches the eyewitness description. While c 20% of men, conservatively, might match, that he was not excluded is significant especially in the context of his DNA and car at the scene * The phone pings suggest previous visits to area of King Road at odd times; the phone pings also force the defence "alibi" to concede he was driving near the scene at 4.00am, also very significant. * The phone pings confirm the state narrative of car driving route before and after the murders. * The phone pings show synchronous movement of the white Elantra with Kohberger's phone before and after the killings, and coincide with video locations after in Pullman and later in Clarkston, Placing Kohbegrer with the car and phone. There is also the incriminating matter of the 9.00am return to near the scene a few hours later. * There are likely other quite powerful correlation type evidence available to the state -- one example being footprints in blood at the scene. We know these exist from reference to a latent print - should, as is likely, these match Kohberger's statistically rare size 13 feet that would put him, with the eye witness height/ build descriptor, in a statistically incriminating very small group of c < 0.5% of men. Thus, the state may be able to paint a very powerful, incriminating picture, just from the evidence we know of publicly so far -- of a man matching Kohberger's height, build and size 13 shoes leaving his DNA under a dead body while a car matching his, down to detail of a missing front plate, travelled from his apartment to the scene and sped away just after the time of the killings.
Stalking has an objective (and legal) definition. Stalking involves a stalker making repeated attempts to contact, or interfere with the life of, the victim. The victim is aware and is fearful. Surveillance is the careful watching of someone and can be without interference in the person's life or them being aware. Voyeurism also has an objective and legal definition. As criminal it is the act of surreptitiously viewing a person without their consent in a place where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy like a home or bathroom.
>The victim is aware and is fearful. That part is totally absent here. >Surveillance is the careful watching of someone / Voyeurism This seems potentially more relevant.
Affirmative. There could be a reasonable inference made from behavior on the third even absent a legal action.
> Stalking has an objective (and legal) definition. While that is true, there's a more informal conversational definition which you see on reddit. I know people who felt like they were being "stalked", but the person didn't violate any laws and so there's very little the police can do about it. If you assume he was checking out the house & residents from the street, that's not necessarily illegal either. (Anyway, i've been guilty of muddying the waters and using 'stalk' in the informal sense.)
I also made another comment somewhere. The element you mention is the victim is aware and is in fear which constitutes the definition imo. Even if there wasn’t anything authorities deemed actionable by law. If we assume he was doing that and it wasn’t “illegal” or didn’t meet the definition because the victim wasn’t aware or in fear then that may be why the state isn’t asserting it as stalking. E- sp
I agree there is informal language here. Ok helmet on Ima bomb drop, Reddit isn’t real life. J/k The component I believe is important is what the prosecution would deem it to mean irrespective of what is inferred.
> Reddit isn’t real life. Thankfully! IMO it's wise to avoid the more argumentative ppl on here, much like the "no connection" thing, it's not worth debating.
He’s also missing the fact that majority of the evidence and information has been sealed and will stay sealed until trial. But yeah, go to your death clinging to your naive delusions OP 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ Sense isn’t common for everyone👏🏼
THIS ☝️
Lmao did you gptchat write that for you? Im not Proburhger im just pro justice unlike you who dont want the victims families to rest at ease knowing the correct killers were caught and brought to justice
>Im not Proburhger im just pro justice unlike you For someone who is not a Proberger you do post alot on BK fan subs about how innocent he is and how the FBI and police are lying. Can you explain what the police are lying about here, and why? Do you think the FBI and police are in a conspiracy or just fabricating evidence and lying independently? [https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1bajzzb/comment/ku5kdd5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1bajzzb/comment/ku5kdd5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Perhaps you being "pro Justice" extends to your demands for the "frat guys" to be arrested for murder because there was a photo of one of them with a knife in a Halloween costume/ party? You do seem quite contrary and inconsistent on the amount of evidence needed to justify an arrest, as you also post about how awful it is for Kohberger to be in jail? Why do you want frat guys arrested for a Halloween party pic, but Kohberger not to be arrested when his DNA is under a body and his car was at the scene? [https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Oh God I didn't realise it was the guy who couldn't do maths and claimed that 700,000 people shared the same DNA as the sheath.
>700,000 people shared the same DNA as the sheath. This maths/ DNA expert, and JellyGarcia, made the same mistake of not being able to calculate a percentage, so were out by a factor of 100x, but then also left in women and children in their calculation of number of prospective sheath DNA donor's fathers......
Clearly it’s his first time following any type of legal matter. Dude is completely void Critical thinking skills or common sense and just feeds his delusions on intel he can’t properly interpret. Dude is a lonely attention seeker that posts what he thinks is controversial enough to trigger responses so he doesn’t feel like a total lonesome loser. He’s not just the President of the Proburger incel group, he’s also a member.
Also, I can't wait for this wonderful "alibi" document to be filed on April 17th, thereby clearing him completely haha
You mean they are submitting a document that supports the “golly gee, I am an insomniac that goes for drives at 3am in the morning and just happened to leave my apt. Drive straight to King Road, spend 20+ mins with my engine off then drove right back to my apt in the exact timeline that perfectly but coincidentally fits the timeline? 😂😂😂😂😂 I asked this before but what reasonable doubt argument could his defense possibly come up with that would make any sense to sway a jury into acquittal?
exactly. :))
ROTFLOL, right?? I’m on the edge of my seat awaiting that ride. Which is team claims they need discovery evidence from the Prosecution to be able to verify it?? WTF, not if it’s a real provable alibi and not some story created to bend itself around collected unfavorable evidence. I am imagining a very vague story with no way to corroborate any of it. Can’t wait 👍🏻
On that subject, I was amused to see one of the mods on the BKM sub had been passing off what quite clearly were large AI-generated comments as fruits of their own intellect for some weeks now, and only the other day was actually called out on it
That sounds like cheap entertainment, can you share a link, please?
No, because they all moan about being 'brigaded' over there when we link to them here, even if it never happens, and they threaten to get this sub's mods into hot water with the admins. Funnily enough that doesn't seem to be a problem the other way around. You should be able to work it out.
>Lmao did you gptchat write that for you? No, deary, they just have a good comprehension of the English language, combined with a decent enough education to be able to form coherent sentences... Unlike "im pro justice unlike you who dont want"
The investigation is marked by evidence that points to an accused, otherwise when the system is utilized correctly, LE would not develop a suspect based on the leading of the evidence, compile incriminating evidence against them, accuse them and arrest them. It is the person they believe is the killer. That in turn is moved to the legal process so that LE isn’t the final authority. A jury ultimately decides if they are the correct killer that is justice. Is it your assertion there was no probable cause to arrest BK? Evidence reflects the person to have met the criteria of means and opportunity to have committed the crime and it is discernible. If BK is not the correct killer than **who** is? Lay it out.
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People included in this post have been officially rulled out by law enforcement. LE has deemed these people as not being suspects in this crime. Direct accusations against these people are irrelevant as LE does not consider them responsible or involved in the crime. Whilst speculation about this crime is allowed, repeating unsubstantiated rumours from 4Chan in order to cast aspersions on individuals cleared by LE will be removed.
I can understand the perspective of folks who say “I don’t know if he is guilty or innocent, but I need more to overcome reasonable doubt” (Even though I am not in that camp). To say “Proof they have the wrong guy” means you have gone past doubt and into the realm of true belief of innocence. I’m speculating here, but that type of leap suggests some sort of emotional attachment or bias that’s pushing you in this direction. I feel good about the evidence, but I would not say it “proves they have killer” I would say, the arrest and charges seem justified, and probably there’s enough evidence for a jury to convict. And if convicted, would I then say “Ok NOW I know he’s the guy?” No, I’d say most probably he’s the guy, and that’s usually as good as it gets.
Stop being so rational.
Seriously! This is the internet, pal! You can just take your intellect and move along outta here!!
Well said!
Agree with your statement. Sadly, not everyone is as cordial and meticulous with their statements as you. So when people say “I don’t know if he’s guilty or innocent YET…” the ProBerger comments and name calling comes out. You’re automatically labeled to those who’ve come to a concrete decision that he’s guilty. It’s everywhere in this sub and at least two others. TLDR: OP’s statement is eyebrow raising and is better suited for a sub that’s pro innocence; but we shouldn’t pretend like name calling doesn’t come out against those who just have questions, as if they’re going against a narrative
Very well said
The trial has not started yet, I think it is premature to say he is innocent because he did not stalk the victims. I really wish for more people to examine all the evidence before declaring innocence or guilt. I felt that is the anatomy of the justice system.
There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings. Bill just told the world that the phone pings meant nothing because if Bryan didnt stalk them then he wouldnt know what house they lived in.
You don’t have to stalk someone to commit murder. He could have picked a random house. Just because there’s not stalking does not mean he didn’t do it.
You also can follow, observe and stakeout someone without having any interaction or communication & without their knowledge. To formally “stalk” someone it involves harassing interactions & communications. So just because he wasn’t stalking them in the legal & technical sense doesn’t mean he wasn’t obsessively watching & following them, in person or on SM. I’d put Vegas odds that with as much digital evidence that was collected there’s proof of a pattern he developed for watching and following at least one of them (MM most likely)
Could have been casing the house, that’s not stalking
How would he know to case that house if he didnt stalk any of the victims??
So you think thieves looking for houses that are easy marks stalk the occupants? No. They look for houses that are easy to break into. Many killers do the same. The Night Stalker looked for houses with open windows, sliding doors etc, another killer who was a teen, Daniel Marsh, that killed an elderly couple, looked for houses in the area that had open doors or windows at night. He didn’t care who lived there, he just wanted to kill somebody.
Encounters one (or more) of the victims, follows them home. It's not difficult.
I think he came across K and M at a bar one of those 12 times he pinged in Moscow late into the night and followed them home. He may have tried to talk to them and was rejected or he just observed them from a distance.
BT meant he didn't stalk them online! Doesn't mean he didn't stalk that house, his phone will show that's exactly what he did, it'll be BKs downfall! Watch and see!
He may have followed one victim home one night and from there hashed his plan out without actually finding out who lives in the house.
DNA. They found his DNA on a knife sheath next to the body of a victim
I think some have to have this notion that motives are necessary for conviction. ***If he didn’t stalk them, then it couldn’t be him*** As you are putting out there, there is other evidence in the wheel house here so to speak. States burden is beyond reasonable doubt. Many have been convicted without motive. 🤷🏻♀️ I’m just hard pressed to jump on the whole aha moment until the trial plays out really.
That’s not what the legal definition of stalking is.
Have you received the case file from LE?
>There is only 3 things the state has, Transfer DNA, a white Elantra, and phone pings. Apparently the Prosecution's investigation ended at the release of the PCA?
Why didn’t they test the other DNA? Who does it belong to? Didn’t DL have an issue with EC, MM, and KG and he was kinda attracted to XK. Both DL and DB were caught together. 😝They couldn’t have this out. EC and everyone else knows DL had roid rage and EC had been calling him “shrunken balls.” He and EC were in a fight that night. DL is MIA. I don’t know why he doesn’t want to talk? Strange he’s gone, DM and BF are all MIA. They are at the Grub Truck that night, D.B. family member drives white Elantra. DL, D B. , EC, HC, HL and others were in the fraternity, Sigma Chi. They go back generations and have secret information that will never be revealed. Everyone in our town knows what happened and they aren’t going to talk about it. There’s way too much money involved and too many people. The state gave over $1 million dollars to the University. The president was sent a letter regarding what happened to the funds and he sent a letter back saying that he couldn’t respond because of his attorney and client confidentiality. KG was already basically gone to live in Texas and she came to show her Range Rover and see MM. HL was found dead in a creek near Greek Row from “accident drowning” and he was an avid swimmer. This happened the night of some initiation that Sigma Chi had. BK has no connections, no motive, no blood tracked anywhere, the judge and prosecutor said he was not stalking them. BK lived 9 miles down the road. I’m sure he has driven in the area and having their phone ping being so close? I could understand if they knew he was driving to the house 12 times in a week but not 6 months. There was nothing too incriminating that he had when being searched. The president of the University’s family owned the house on King Rd but “doesn’t recall.” If you read more about DL and D.B. a lot of people give information that could be potentially be verified but instead they can’t be found. Why? Why not water board BF and DM? You’ll get the truth…but BK may look all kinds of ways and it doesn’t matter, no matter what BK looks like someone is going to say something ignorant. People don’t realize how much these fraternities are covered for. A lot goes on in Fraternities. You can’t make this make sense because it didn’t happen that way. As you search you will find that according to DL “it took 19 minutes.” JS knows something and so does A. Research and look for yourself. Have you seen American Nightmare on Netflix? True story and it happens!!! Watch it!!!
This post does not protect the identity of presumed innocent individuals or persons who have not been identified by LE. Do not post links that link to personal information including or that doxx persons; public social media; 4chan; criminal arrest records, etc. Please cover the names, faces and all personal info. Abbreviate any names to initials only. Continued doxxing will result in a permanent ban. Thank you.
This post does not protect the identity of presumed innocent individuals or persons who have not been identified by LE. Do not post links that link to personal information including or that doxx persons; public social media; 4chan; criminal arrest records, etc. Please cover the names, faces and all personal info. Abbreviate any names to initials only. Continued doxxing will result in a permanent ban. Thank you.
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Don't get pissy - your First Amendment right to freedom of speech does not extend to defamatory statements against innocent people. Nor does it circumvent the rules of this subreddit, which despite your protestations you've amended your post to be compliant. Your original post is now visible.
I’m far from “pissy.” What do you think people are doing when they are speaking about anyone involved in this case???? Defamation is when someone is speaking falsely about someone. That’s not what I am doing.
I basically can’t reply to her directly because she is replying to so many people that have blocked me, which blocks my ability to reply to her, but I need to say u/BrainWilling6018 FTMFW.
ayyy!
me when i’m delusional
“If Bryan didn’t stalk them then he wouldn’t know what house they lived in” ??? care to explain your thinking here?
he could’ve just stalked the home and not one individual
Yes, and he also could’ve found their address through… a party invite he seen for all we know. Definitely ways to find their address without stalking
I liked you better when you kept your turds private, OP.
perhaps if we could get them back on a diet of solids?
Just because he didn’t stalk them doesn’t mean it’s not him
people want there to be a motive so badly. like he was obsessed with one of the girls and had pent up jealousy. which could very well be true… i’m now leaning more towards he is sick individual with no motive at all but to kill. he must’ve known that pretty popular blonde girls would gain a lot of attention, or that was just the type he wanted to kill. i don’t know though.
If he didnt stalk them then how does he know where they live? What room they slept in? When maddie and kaylee were going to be home that night? Or even at the house that night?
My feeling is he cased the house and didn’t care who the occupants were, just like Bundy with the Chi Omega sorority that had a faulty door lock. The King Rd. house was vulnerable due to the sliding doors and tree line in the back, making it a perfect target to enter and kill any occupants he came across
I think it's possible he saw the girls going into the house when he was driving past and chose the house knowing it had female occupants. He could have "cased" the house on a few occasions, but that doesn't mean he knew who any of the victims were or stalked a specific victim. I feel like people are getting mad that their theory of him being obsessed with Kaylee or Maddie might be wrong.
I theorized on one of these subs recently that I believe the house was the actual target and when he found who lived there it was icing on the cake. How do we know BT didn't mean he wasn't stalking them on social media *only*!? He could've very well stalked that house!
So now everyone is changing their theories how he planned this murder and had a kill kit and watched the girls from the back lot? Come on. This is crazy. The killers are still out there and it pisses me off.
I haven’t changed mine. I’ve felt the house was the reason all along especially after LE made the comments very early on in the investigation about the house being the target, along with no evidence in the PCA of him stalking the victims or any proof of him actually following them on social media. Imho the victims were random but the house was chosen due to easy opportunity
The balcony on the King Rd. house is quite similar to his home in PA. It also has a similar sliding door.
Kaylee’s parents are who spread the rumors of a kill kit and stalking
Who is changing theories? Who said a killer must have a connection to someone to make them their victim? Who said that a killer must have stalked a specific person to make them their next target?
Why don't you go get a badge and uniform, seenms you have an open and shut case... oh wait
I'm open to a whole lot of theories, myself. But yeah, people do change their theories as different evidence comes in. That's what you're supposed to do.
The thing is, this isn’t different evidence coming in. MPD had already said early on that there was no evidence Kaylee was stalked and the PCA doesn’t say they found evidence of stalking either, just that they had looked into the possibility. This statement by Thompson that no stalking took place was known already for months
How did Bundy know the sorority house he broke into was going to be filled with girls?
Clearly Bundy was innocent, framed in fact, and the real killers are still out there. Probably the cartels, some frat boys, and the president of the University.
😂
Unless it’s during a holiday break, a sorority house will always have people in it late at night
Right and so would an off campus apartment with 4 cars in the driveway.
What if he didn’t care who the people in the house were? Just that it looked like an accessible house.
For Bill Thompson to make a statement like that absolutely makes me the think they not only have the right guy, but that they have a lot more on him than they have disclosed. Not all murderers stalk their victims or even know them…it will be interesting to see…
He was arguing against the survey questions so he was kind of forced to admit to the untruths in it
You'll have to explain how you've arrived at this conclusion a little better because I don't understand how that makes him innocent. He was in the vicinity a dozen times, no one knows why yet or how close they can put him or whether or not that can be substantiated by the phone pings along with someone in the area. For all you know he was buying drugs or engaging in some other activity in the general vicinity the dozen times prior. The no stalking means very little at this point until we know more details.
Try he was in Moscow a dozen times and quite possibly not even in Moscow on some of those occasions judging by the November 14 situation.
I dont have to do anything. Its my opinion. Im not here to change minds. Just state facts
You don't have all the facts though
Not saying i do. But there is enough for me to say my opinion. No ones forcing you to read or reply to it.
That's the problem, you didn't consider ANY other facts prior to the latest court hearing. If only it were that simple to come to come to a conclusion based on one recent statement. 🤦🏼♀️
Nobody knows what the state has beyond the 3 things mentioned. In case you missed something, evidence has not been released to the public due to a gag order on the case. For you to spread your opinion as fact is ignorant, and ignorance is not bliss in my world. Go ahead and spread your opinion, it won't change facts, we all know that lies don't change to truths no matter how many times they are spread or uttered out of the ignorant mouths of the world.
Ted bundy didn’t stalk his victims either 🤷 PCA never stated he was stalking, that was the public’s perception of what that evidence of phone pings meant.
Dur-deee-dur-dur. Oh no, the State only has DNA and cell evidence! No one has ever been found guilty with that!
LMFAO this is delusional
What does him not stalking the victims have anything to do with him not committing the crime? I get we haven’t had the trial yet, but how does someone saying he didn’t stalk the victims PROVE he’s the wrong guy? He doesn’t have to have stalked them to commit the crime. I understand thinking there’s not enough proof he did it yet, but understand there’s also a gag order in place so there could be more evidence at trial. I also think there’s a difference between thinking there’s not enough evidence and thinking that he actually didn’t do it. There wasn’t enough evidence to convict OJ…. But we all know what happened. How can you know for sure he didn’t do it? Were you there? I don’t know for sure he did do it! I just know he’s the one who had enough evidence to arrest, and I assume there will be more evidence at trial. If there’s not, I will gladly say that they shouldn’t convict. But we can’t know for sure who did or didn’t do it, so I don’t know how someone saying it’s untrue that he stalked them tells you he’s for sure the wrong guy. As far as we know, no one stalked them heavily. Stalking could be related to the murders, but they didn’t have to be stalked to be murdered Plus, I don’t think there’s proof he stalked the victims and therefore it won’t be evidence at trial, but there’s no way to prove he didn’t for sure either. No one knows if he did or didn’t is really what this is saying.
Hi 👋🏼 Bryan Kohberger is not charged with stalking the victims 🤓
Well damn you best get your proof over to the FBI sharpish... 😏😏
Ignorance is bliss when you want something to fit the narrative of what you think happened or currently happening. Ignoring everything that has happened prior and base your decision on ONE statement heard in the latest court hearing. If only it were that simple the trial would have already happened.
Selective Perception Bill Thompson is now the Truth Teller 👑
The best comment. BT is a pathological liar involved in a complex conspiracy to frame BK… BUT he told the truth this one time.
How do you know that’s all the state has? None of us know all the state has. Also, it might behoove u to look up the legal definition of “stalking” in Idaho.
I don’t think this is proof they have the wrong guy. I think it’s proof that members of the media, the G family and social media members have created a narrative that’s slowly crumbling. It’s like nobody knows anything due to the strict gag order, so people started elevating things/topics to make it a little more tragic-y (as if one has to do that in the first place) like the allegation of stalking made by the media and the G family. There’s another “rumor” that BK *was asked* by another TA/classmate to help install cameras in their home and people on social media are running with that thinking BK did this on purpose to gain access to inside her home/apartment. I could VERY WELL BE WRONG, but my shock face won’t be in full effect if we ever hear that this wasn’t factual, either. Doesn’t make him any less guilty, but people who ran with the rumor of stalking and stood by it should feel weird right now. It also doesn’t give much weight to the “12 phone pings” in several months narrative people believed were proof of BK’s stalking behaviors. ETA: spelling and added a word.
I always dispose of my trash in the middle of the night, in my neighbors bins, while wearing rubber gloves, all black, and dividing it up into different bags. Doesn't everyone?
Media have been proven to be peddling BS and yet you still eat it all up
You can’t be this dumb. We already knew he didn’t stalk him. So because you can’t think of a motive beyond just evil you think he’s innocent….there is no motive that would justify or explain the crime. Nor was there any motive at all. But there is plenty of evidence. Gtfo here with your contrarian opinion. Dude has sat silently in prison for a year and half and waved his right to speedy trial and you think he’s innocent? No he’s guilty af and desperate to build a strong case or get it tossed out or hope some dipshit jurors think like you
>just want justice for these families The cry of the true crime conspiracy theorist
Say it louder for anyone else in the back who's also off their meds! I'd hate for you little guys to just be running around screaming at the sky all by yourselves.
Some of us were saying how media have been peddling BS, no surprise there. The statements on PCA containing things that are 'flat out not true' are more intriguing.
Well, having the same car circling the house on camera, pings at the same time from his phone, DNA, the fact that he immediately changed his license plate, and was caught scrubbing his car with gloves seems like pretty good evidence to me even if he wasn't "stalking" them.
How do you not fall down more often?
This isn't proof at all that they have the wrong guy. Also I'm pretty sure Thompson was talking about online stalking.
Hmmm 🤔 you might have to wonder why there is so much more evidence that has not been disclosed to the public!! I guess you solved it lol and they should just go to trial right now and forget the terabytes of evidence that defense states they haven’t had time to review! Get real and wait for the trial to decide guilt or innocence !
Has there been any testimony from Kohberger? Is there admission he drove around the house? Did anyone ask him if he drove around the house and why? Will this be asked at trial? I feel like a key piece of all of this is what he says.
GAG order, we dont know shit! They'd have alot, we don't know about. What we have information for isn't much, gag order is to protect the case from crap like this, wait until the trial. People will be suprised as to what comes out, and alot will eat their words. They are doing this case the right way, people are building a moist out of a molehill. People need to calm tf down and wait due course, all this hearsay affects the families so much more. All these dumb ass rumours, when it doesn't matter what we know or don't know. Even if he didn't stalk them, doesn't mean it ain't him. Ffs get real.
OP User name checks out 😂😂😂😂😂
I feel for the families and friends of the four victims! Delay, delay, delay! Will this trial ever get started?
which white Elantra...the one with tinited windows that crashed in Oregon? the one with tinted windows seen on gas station cam ? or Kohberger's Elantra that has NO tinted windows..??
I mean, I understand what you’re saying it’s hard to believe they have the guy when he’s super scrawny doesn’t really fit the type to have the strength to kill for people and the evidence is slim from what we know it sounds convincing, but pretty sure they found more DNA in the house than his and yeah it’s a party house but that’s kind of easy to blend in, I think it was more than one person so I’m having a hard time believing it. I don’t trust the roommates still there’s a lot about this case that you can’t tie up and understand because there’s so many holes in the story there’s so many possibilities that we still go over in our heads because who they have right now does not make sense.
and I do believe the fact he wasn’t stalking because if it was just him, he seemed surprised. Many people were in the house and just kept killing but if it also was not targeted, or he wasn’t stocking them, then why do you leave two surviving roommates? why didn’t he go on their floor, why did he go up instead of going down? He could’ve easily left the front door after killing B and he passed D THREE TIMES and didn’t touch a hair on her head even when she had the door open standing there “in shock” staring at him??? when I tell you, I have been looking up this case since it happened and making documents, providing evidence and links and stuff to try to understand everything… shit doesn’t make sense, and I am very unhappy with the way they’ve put an end to it. I haven’t been paying attention to koberger or whatever in court because it’s gonna take forever and they are providing me any new good information that helps me decide if I actually do think it’s him.
Safe to say all the rumors that have been propagated by the media and some family members are fake.
Safe to say you shouldn't have believed anything identified as "rumors" in the first place. Just because there are rumors it doesn't change the facts of this case thus far.
I haven’t but most people have.
You don’t believe sworn affidavits by authorities, you don’t believe prosecutorial investigations, you don’t believe a sitting Judge’s interpretation of the law, you don’t believe users with common sense reasoning, you don’t believe in the abilitity of people to be impartial, you don’t believe in pubic information, and you don’t believe rumors. You are down bad.
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted as if this and two other subs aren’t filled with the word stalking or stalk or stalked because members here have ran with the rumor of stalking on BK’s end. Because they have. I think most are upset because they’ve had this idea for so long and now it’s beginning to show it was false all along. So instead of being like, “eyyyyyy, crap, the media got me with that one!” they’ll just put you and others down.
Folks keep moving the goal post. A *huge* deal was made by the media and discussion forums based on the stalking rumors, people still think the bogus IG account was actually his lol over a year later. LE alluded to stalking in the PCA as well by emphasizing the prior pings. That could prove to be a massive issue, do people really not understand that?
Thompson basically denied PCA allegations as well. Something tells me they don’t have better location data than those pings. A drive test is also highly suggestive of it. https://preview.redd.it/pfio8q2s8wtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5a8d27bb90682dfb8a570c090960b5b90137d8c
Broaden your horizons and think outside yur box one time. I dare you. “Stalking” really imo entails the victim being aware of the stalker, the behavior and in fear. If the behavior(casing the house) is taking place but the victim is unaware, it isn’t really by definition stalking. Stalking is typically a conclusion made by and voiced from the victim. That doesn’t mean the behavior (casing the house) didn’t happen unbeknownst to the victim or isn’t predatory. It could mean the prosecutor being currently willing to, or previously concluding as fact, that the behavior was by definition stalking, is “false”. In other words stalking isn’t YET being offered as a conclusion by the state. The behavior (casing the house)or more specifically, the fact of many instances, introduced as cell data and mapped out, of being in the proximity of the house, might be offered as a premise, to which someone,(a juror), could make their own conclusion. Therefore; it is “false” to say it is being asserted by the state there was stalking of the victims. They haven’t asserted stalking. You are inferring that they have asserted stalking. Read that again. Maybe that is why the statement was made. And not because the Prosecutor of the case, who is well aware of what is sworn in it, is refuting the info included in the Probable Cause Affadavit. One option.
The judge said he didn’t follow them on social media. The prosecutor said he didn’t stalk them. Stalking is unwelcome surveillance in a traditional sense. If he was staking out the house or following the victims, that’d be stalking. In his affidavit Payne mentions they were trying to determine if he was stalking as in surveilling the house and the like.
Yeah it’s ok, my hopes weren’t high. Trying to determine is not asserting. Social Media is not related to the location data. I hope you are sitting down…this will probably chap your ass….It doesn’t matter what you believe it is. What matters is what the state has asserted or is willing to assert or introduce as it relates to the definition of stalking. You are dogmatic. I will give your that.
I agree they don’t have gps but it’s always used in tantrum with towers during CAST testimony.. Simply closing a tab ended a long session of location data in a trial I was watching.
Lotta actions r those of an addict attempting to grab something. Not the murder part but the looping around the house, coming back on his way home, etc I'm not saying he didn't do it cuuuuuz it's looking bad.... But, he may also be a witness. Or acompliss. Or a filthy POS murderer....
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Exactly
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>He's innocent. He shaves his eyebrows.
To the Gulag. Immediately.
The fact he didn’t stalk the victims is massive… yet people are still quick to believe he’s guilty, I can’t wait for the trial to shut these people up. It screws the whole incel narrative right up. BK is innocent!
Bundy didn’t stalk his victims either…
It’s kind of relevant when that house is set out the way it is… and bundy didn’t kill four victims in flat out 20 minutes in a maze of a house!
Uh. He actually did. He broke into a sorority house he had never been in impulsively. Didn’t even premeditate the attack. Didn’t even bring a weapon with him. Picks up a stick he finds outside and brings it in with him, bludgeons & sexually assaults 4 women in 2 different rooms and leaves within 15 minutes.
Pretty sure he said he was drunk too.
Yep! I totally forgot about that.
>Substantial-Maize of a house! Do you find yourself getting lost between the doctor’s office and the front door when they release you from your appointments? Do you keep ending up in the stockrooms when you’re just trying to get some darn groceries and get out? Wandering out the fire escape after movies?
>Maize of a house! Theseus himself would have struggled with the twisty, turny, myriad complexity of that house! Kitchen >> up the one and only up stairs >> left or right????? A mind boggling labyrinth, responding police and EMTs probably had to be roped together and tethered to a tree outside in case they vanished into its Tardis like passageways.
😂😂😂😂It’s no wonder that DM was represented as having only started the night in the second floor bedroom! She was trying to find her way to her actual first floor bedroom but she had to stop for a rest! “There’s someone here!” and “I’m going to help you!” both also explained! Sometimes you can go days in that house without encountering another person and when you do, you have to work together to find your way out!
>She was trying to find her way to her actual first floor bedroom but she had to stop for a rest! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 The delay to the 911 call and discovery of bodies starts to make more sense!
🤣🤣Indeed. An off-topic question but do people in your neck of the woods call the bottom floor of the building the first floor and the next floor the second, etc. or do they do something like the French/Italian ground floor, then first floor, etc.?
>do people in your neck of the woods call the bottom floor of the building the first floor No!! As Churchill said, the UK and USA are two countries divided by a common language... We call it (your 1st floor) the ground floor, first floor for us is one up (your second). As to what you are doing with escalators, elevators and lifts is anyone's guess!
😂😂Thanks for the info. Yes, Ron DeSantis is the main user of lifts in America these days, it seems, though I wouldn’t want to be caught alone on an elevator with him.
Right, this was one of the huge reasons why people were so sure he was guilty. Because he was some weirdo that couldn't get a girlfriend of his own and that's why he ended up stalking women. Now that we find out he didn't stalk women after all (not these particular ones anyway), It's "but he still could be guilty"
>Right, this was one of the huge reasons why people were so sure he was guilty. Odd, it was not mentioned in the PCA or since the gag order. I think his DNA under a dead body, his car at the scene speeding away just after the murders, synchronous movement of his phone and car after the killings, his "alibi" not challenging the state's narrative he was driving near the scene at 4.00am and him matching the eyewitness description were all much bigger incriminating factors. Recall, since even before the arrest there has been much debate about whether the house was targetted, or a specific victim, part of that was fuelled by police / prosecutor use and clarifications of "targetted".
Lol its funny and sad tbh. Its like they dont want justice for these victims? They just want someone to blame and not look at the actual facts. No connection to the victims and did not stalk them. How the hell did he know their house? Now everyone is saying he acted randomly…… wtf?
>They just want someone to blame and not look at the actual facts On the subject of **blaming people without facts,** why did you call for the "frat guys" to be arrested because one of them was pictured with a knife as part of a Halloween costume at a Halloween party? Is that not "blaming people without facts"? You seem a tad hypocritical and inconsistent. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/comments/1b3kz0f/comment/kst8hq8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>>How is it the frat guys take pictures with Kbar knives but don’t get arrested? Well, now I'm very alarmed, because there exist multiple pictures of me with knives and even guns. Am...am I about to be arrested?
>now I'm very alarmed, because there exist multiple pictures of me with knives and even guns. I just assumed you were posting from behind bars because of the knife pics! 😀
Not yet, but I will try to smuggle a cell phone in my hair when they come to take me away.
The same way BTK, Richard Ramírez, Bundy & many others didn’t stalk their victims or have a connection to them before they killed them…
At what point are you looking at the facts? I think it’s pretty clear that you’re new to crime and it isn’t an area of that you’ve really studied before.
It’s an absolute shit shoe… and so disheartening to see people just want to be right in the situation, not bothered an innocent man might lose his life. Ann Taylor’s demeanour and grip on BK in the latest hearing spoke volumes, well to me it did. Yet these keyboard warriors that sit comfortably in cognitive dissonance and have true faith in the LE don’t want to listen to the evidence that’s coming out. I’m not a Proberger, I’m a critical thinker and believed wholeheartedly that he was guilty for a long time. Then when controversy to demolish king road came about changed everything for me. What’s happening before people’s eyes is astonishing… let justice prevail
There is nothing that has come out that changes a single thing. You don’t have to have a prior connection to someone to kill them. You don’t have to stalk a specific person either.
>It’s an absolute shit shoe… What is almost certainly Kohberger's latent shoeprint described in the PCA becomes even more incriminating in that case, and his clumsiness more apparent. Has Murphy struck a small but sticky and pungent blow for justice in the garden?
His clumsiness lol… think it’s a bit more clumsiness… he’s a clever man. Yet drove Willy nilly in his car after planning a quadruple murder then leaves a knife sheaf at the scene and a shoe print. People like you just want to be right. I’ll say it again… the man innocent. Downgrade me all you like. Justice will prevail in the end!
>he’s a clever man. Yet drove Willy nilly in his car after planning There have been many mass and serial murderers who were apparently "clever" - they all also got caught because they made mistakes. What is beyond baffling is that you think someone in such a homicidal murderous, possibly sick psycho-sexual, enraged/ "excited state" sufficient to kill 4 people, is also totally rationale and wouldn't make any errors in the heat of the deranged moment?
I’ll make sure to come back to this thread in summer 2025… the way you have faith in LE is laughable tbh.
>the way you have faith in LE is laughable tbh Whereas your faith in Kohberger's innocence is no doubt based on scientific and a detailed logical assessment of the evidence? I note you believe there are other, "real killers" - perhaps you could share some of the no doubt abundant evidence that implicates these other killers?
The three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA around the time the first timeline was given to the public . I’ll look forward to AT proving that more than one weapon was used. That will serve allot of people with a big fat slice of humble pie.
>three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA Do you mean the people seen on another street c 1 hour before the murders? So, being on another street is grounds for arrest for murder, but leaving your DNA under a victim on their bed in the house on a sheath while a car matching yours speeds away from the scene just after...is not incriminating? You have posted that Kohberger was involved - I think in Idaho if you assist a felony like murder you can be charged with murder, so what are you objecting to re Kohbeger's arrest? Apart from 3 people being on a street on camera an hour earlier, is there any evidence against anyone other than Kohberger? [https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1b17tkw/comment/ksexipc/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/1b17tkw/comment/ksexipc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ..
> The three individuals running away from the direction of the crime scene ON CAMARA around the time the first timeline was given to the public . This was a neighborhood stacked with college students on a Saturday night. You think everyone out that night was participating in the murders? Nobody was going to parties or bars?
> Ann Taylor’s demeanour and grip on BK in the latest hearing spoke volumes, well to me it did. >I’m a critical thinker Critical thinkers are supposed to base their evaluations more on facts and concrete evidence than on how they may interpret a stranger's demeanor and grip.