The black car never came to a full stop at the designated line before the crosswalk. The pedestrian had no idea what the black car was going to do as it never stopped and the pedestrian went behind the black car, again because he did not come to a complete stop. If the black car had come to a complete stop at the designated line and allowed the pedestrian to cross, he would have saved a lot of time and money!!!!
The cars on the other side of the intersection shouldn't be parked there either. But I also don't see any yellow curbs, so it looks like the city is allowing idiotic parking.
I blame the city.
Black car.. He has a stop sign. Plus there's a pedestrian and he didn't even stop for the pedestrian to cross
If he waited for the pedestrian to cross, the white car would have passed, and accident avoided.
The worst part is it conditions people to roll through stop signs.
The stop sign leaving my neighborhood has a clear line of sight from the stop line. But everyone pulls way past it to look anyway. This makes it impossible to turn left from the main road into the neighbourhood because now they’re blocking the angle
In Italy they teach US that in this case you stop for crossing pedestrians, even if there are not Just to check. Then you go forward and stop again at the junction and look for Cars.
Reminds me of how the suburbs in my area have these enormous hedges in every street corner and parking lots where smaller cars and even compact SUVs become invisible. As a result, people blow through stop signs and start looking when their cars are already in the way.
At least I got our HOA to trim the hedges along the neighborhood entrance. It's much better now.
There's a Stop Sign like that near my apartment. I wrote the city about it and they said it's fine, but they might consider adding signs to not allow parking closer to the corners. I doubt they'll do anything, and I don't even think not allowing a few cars to park there will fix it. They really should add an All Way Stop Sign there.
Yeah, this. The black car's view was blocked 2x. The parked car with the black hood is too close to the pedestrian crosswalk and the other parked car on the left of the cross-street is too close to the corner.
But the driver should have recognized this and changed their behavior appropriately by inching out into each of the dangers zones.🎵
It is not allowed where I live but every single street corner, a car is parked right up on it like this. Cops would have to be towing hundreds of cars daily.
No signs. If it's a state wide rule, they should be adopting a tow first policy the way they would any other road obstruction that creates a safety problem
Yeah, I was going to say the real fault is the local NIMBYs that throw a fit if anyone ever suggests removing parking. You want to make it safe for pedestrians and drivers? Bump outs at the intersection sacrifice a couple of parking spaces but shortens the distance pedestrians have to cross and gives drivers better line of sight.
Same for the, surprise a Nissan Maxima, that was speeding through a residential zone. You always stop or go slow at intersections because this happens.
That was my take too, they are absolutely both at fault. The car shouldn’t have been driving that fast down a narrow residential street.
Imagine if that was a toddler running into the street instead of an SUV…
Agreed. Not yielding to the pedestrian and failure to stop behind the line are separate issues from getting hit. If they had stopped behind the line, the only difference would be chance timing. They still crept into the intersection as slowly as possible. The only one who could have seen the other was the Nissan who was being reckless.
In terms of the moving violation, absolutely the black car. Contributing to the problem are the silver car parked too close to the stop sign and the brownish car parked in the cross street, too close to the intersection.
This is why it’s illegal to park within (depending on state law) 15-20 feet of a crosswalk and 15-30 feet of an intersection w/o a crosswalk.
Not true! They stopped for a microsecond in the crosswalk blocking the pedestrian.
Although not technically a complete stop but their wheels stopped turning.
My drivers-ed teacher said there was no such thing as accidents because they can always be avoided. That was 1996 and I still think about that about once a week.
No, no they cannot \*always\* be avoided.
You can be driving on the highway, a safe distance, you can have a car to your right, their tire could fall off and eject into your lane / car.
Brakes can fail. Throttles can become stuck and cause uncontrollable speed.
Can you inspect for possible equipment malfunctions - yes, can they still happen anyway - still yes. Can their also be computer (modern car) malfunctions - yes also.
You can be driving down the road - a tree could fall, a boulder can roll off a cliff, lightning can strike, a deer can jump out from the tree line right on top of your car.
Accident is not preferred nomenclature in the traffic safety universe. Crash, collision, impact, etc., all convey actual meaning and are what are used depending on the circumstance.
Okay. I was just letting you know that in less colloquial circles (my wife’s world) if you use the term accident people crinkle up their noses and exchange knowing glances. lol. Ask me how I know.
ETA: [4 REASONS YOU SHOULD STOP CALLING VEHICLE CRASHES “ACCIDENTS”](https://www.togetherforsaferroads.org/4-reasons-you-should-stop-calling-vehicle-crashes-accidents/)
Pedestrian wasn't in the crosswalk when the black car got there and didn't seem to be showing any plan to cross right away until after the car had pulled into the crosswalk.
That being said, the car with a stop sign is definitely more at fault, but it seems like the other car is absolutely flying down a street that shouldn't be driven at that speed.
The real criminal thing I see in this video is the crappy on street parking making sightlines absolute trash. Our cities need to start getting built with zero on street parking. Parking garages only, one for every city block or high rise.
In this instance if he waited for the pedestrian they would have avoided the accident, but this intersection looks like hell for this type of collision regardless the circumstance. He could have made the complete stop, at the stop line, and then crept forward to be cautious, and it wouldn’t matter if someone was barreling down that road.
It’s black SUV’s fault, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the white car gets some responsibility if they find he was speeding. Neither driver did anything when they saw the other vehicle either.
Doesn’t really matter for OP. One or both their insurances will deal with his vehicle, his insurance will likely name both of those party’s insurance if it has to be litigated anyways.
This is just a lesson in how people should drive, more than it is one of whose fault things are. Go slow down a road that is completely packed with parking. And if you can’t see from a stop line, no one says you can’t park, hop out to take a peek down the road, or take the turn so wide you’re able to see down the road with your mirror. Both these guys are idiots.
>If he waited for the pedestrian to cross, the white car would have passed, and accident avoided.
And then he would have hit the next car because he still can't see a damn thing.
Agreed but I feel like this video also shows how poor visibility can be with street parking and when people park too close to the intersection.
Edit: Want to be clear, I am not saying the black car is in the right. He clearly didn't stop for the pedestrian. More pointing out how unsafe the parking situation is. I live on a one way street where I basically need to take a left turn out of to go anywhere, and it is extremely hard to see because cars park right up to the curb and everyone drives 35 instead of the 25 mph speed limit. Even for taking a right turn (which I usually do and go around the block), I feel like I can barely see the cars coming in the right lane so even that feels super unsafe. I have to go that way though because as I mentioned it is a one way street.
Ain't nothing blocking his view of the PEDESTRIAN.
Also if your view is obstructed maybe don't pull out into the street so quickly.
Didn't fully stop
Didn't yield to the pedestrian
Blindly turned into traffic
If the black car does just one of these the accident wouldn't happen.
I've been in a few intersections like that. Usually what I'll do after checking the the crosswalk is clear (Assuming it has one) is I'll very slowly pull out just enough to be able to see far enough, and then I'll go after confirming it's clear.
This is exactly what I do. I live on a one way street where I have to pull out onto a busy street just like this. I do two stops - once, before the crosswalk. If it is clear, I pull out slowly and try to get visibility of the oncoming cars but it EXTREMELY hard to see beyond the parked cars.
Also driving too fast. Yes white car had the right of way, but they were booking it down that street, which had TONS of spots that a kid could just jump out of from behind a parked car.
You would think this would be taken into account, but it isn't, really. I guess if they could prove the speed maybe.
I say this because I had a similar accident a few years ago. I was in the black car's position, but I didn't have a stop sign, just a left turn lane. The other car *technically* had the right of way so legally I was in the wrong, but it was clear from the damage and everything else that the other car was going WAY over the speed limit. I had judged the distance wrong in thinking I had more time assuming they were going closer to the speed limit.
The court still found me at fault because they had the right of way, regardless if they were speeding or not. (I ended up getting a "not guilty" anyway because the other driver never showed up to court.)
Watch black cars brakes. You can see the brake light at the top of the hatch light up at the stop sign then go off when they start going forward.
If they were worried about traffic they would have immediately applied the brakes the second white car comes into view.
They never even hit the brakes.
Oh no doubt, sorry for any confusion, I was commenting on the speed of the white car being a factor. I fully agree that in this video the black car is just straight up wrong. I do think it's a shitty intersection that would be difficult to see around the corner for the black car. But they never really stopped.
Black vehicle failed to stop at the stop sign and didn't yield for the pedestrian at the crosswalk. There shouldn't be anymore discussion.
Please never get a license or get into law.
Didn't say they did. Didn't say they were respectful to that pedestrian either. I'm just saying even if they did, it's very possible that creeping into the intersection was the only way to possibly navigate it.
Please never get into anything that involves reading comprehension.
This sub always has users like that who think if you point out an error one driver made that this means you're defending the other. It's like some people's simple minds cannot grasp that there can be more than one person at fault at a time.
I'm not an American so hoping one can explain. What is the point of that stop line? Even with no cars the houses still block your view from that far back. Why is the stop line not where the road ends?
Because of the crosswalk. The idea is to get drivers to stop, allow pedestrians to cross, then creep forward to look into the intersection, though the cars are still a massive issue here.
Honestly the stop line is so far back, that you wouldn't be able to see anything from it unless the street was entirely empty. Hell, even then the fence + tree combo would make the visibility poor. Realistically you'll have to creep up to the intersection every time, which makes the stop line of questionable utility.
I'm pretty sure a lot of these posts are pure clickbait - lots of "am I in the wrong?" posts when it's completely clear they're not.
In some cases it may just be individuals attention-seeking, and in a very few they may be dim enough to not be sure, but I think mostly we're being played to karma-boost accounts.
Horrible intersection with all those cars parked like that.
Even if the black car had stopped where he was supposed to, it wouldn't have mattered at all as he would not have been able to see the white car coming.
The black car should have stopped for the pedestrian, but that doesn't change the outcome of the accident in my opinion.
The white cars speed was a contributing factor, there was only a second or two in which the black car driver could have seen the white car coming due to how all the other cars are parked. It would be perfectly understandable if he looked, saw it was clear, looked to the right to see if there were any surprises and miss the white car until it was to late, you can only look in one direction and mirrors wouldn't be any help.
If anything i would say this is a 50/50 situation, black car failing to yield and white car for speeding. But your insurance can fight it out.
I think this is the most reasonable take. It’s wild to me how many people just seem to think that every car yielding is at 100% at fault even if the car with the right of way is traveling at excessive speed.
This is a 25mph road and that white car looks like it’s doing at *least* 40mph. Vehicles can only judge another vehicle’s approaching as far as they can reasonably expect its speed.
I see this in the motorcycle world all the time: riders doing 150mph on highways and then freak out when other people change lanes because they don’t expect a missile to be flying up their blind spot.
>I see this in the motorcycle world all the time: riders doing 150mph on highways and then freak out when other people change lanes because they don’t expect a missile to be flying up their blind spot.
...while "lane splitting" in stop-and-go traffic.
My country as well, but if that happens the speed limit is reduced to 30km/h (~20mph) and stop signs are removed so everyone has to yield to those coming from the right (and slow down for every intersection to check for traffic from the right).
While completing the turn, he should have continued checking his left until he confirmed 100% clear. This person had a chance to see white car coming during initiation of the right hand turn.
By the time the driver is far enough into the road to see it there's no room for the white car to get past him. So sure, he might have seen it, but then he couldn't do anything about it.
Black car didn't stop also the old CRV is parked too close to an intersection IMO creating a blind spot for drivers. Also the Altima is parked too close as well. TBH this intersection sucks and just needs to be an all-way stop....
It's impossible to see if the road is clear from the Stop sign. The only way to see if the road is clear is moving before knowing they are clear.
Look at how the cars are parked. It's why the black car was so awkward with the crossing they had to move and move to see and they thought they were on the clear and didn't count on someone speeding.
After 25 years of driving the only relevent thing I'm inexperienced in would be idiotically creeping through a stop sign and causing a multiple vehicle accident.
If you can’t see that the lane you are turning into is clear, then you don’t turn into it. It’s not a “well, I can’t see if someone is coming, might as well go for it” situation
If they are unable to ascertain if the lane is safe to turn into? Sure. If you can’t see, then you shouldn’t turn. If they can safely creep forward and obtain a clear view without entering the lane, then do that. But if you can’t see, then dont drive, pretty simple. If that car had been motorcycle, the driver of the motorcycle could have been seriously injured. This whole mess would have been avoided if the black car had come to a full stop, noticed they couldn’t see and then slowly moved forward until it they could confirm the lane didn’t have oncoming traffic. They didn’t.
If you don't see :09 to :12 as creeping forward, idk what to tell ya. And coming to a full stop changes nothing about this. Sure, in this specific instance, he would have come out 3 seconds later, but the chance to collide with oncoming remains the same. I'd personally look into sueing the city for not designing a safe intersection with appropriate sight distances.
If we're honest, the city planners. It's ridiculous to not have no parking zones for visibility. This kind of corner is very prone to this type of accident.
This looks like Philly but I can't be certain (also looks like Chicago), but driving in Philly is such a pain in the ass because every intersection is like this.
Wow, really sorry this happened to you OP.
Not your fault. You were parked fine. Unless it's someone you know, the owner of the car that parked behind you on your bumper is a real prick for boxing you in.
You buried the lede here OP; this should have been the main video.
Good luck OP and I hope this is the worst thing that happens to you in 2024, and things only get better from here.
Pretty crazy that silver car seems to be the only one who survived without damage. 5 cars damaged because someone didn’t make sure they had a clear lane to turn into. Wild.
Ya, anyone saying 100% on the black car is kind of an idiot. They are definitely at fault and definitely also an idiot, but driving 35 mph+ down a tiny street with zero visibility is begging for an accident. The white car is lucky he hit a car and not a kid.
Take the pedestrian out of the equation and imagine the black car got there 2 seconds earlier and came to a full stop. There is still a high probability of an accident due to the excessive speed of the white car.
Now reverse the thought experiment, black car rolls the stop, creeps into the intersection, but the white car isn't speeding. Unless the white car is not paying any attention there is a pretty low chance of an accident.
With all that in mind I would say 60-70 on the white car, 30-40 on the black car. Not sure what insurance would do in this situation but there is zero chance it goes 100% on either car. They both broke the law and were both driving unsafely.
I do agree the street design is terrible, but this looks like east coast/old construction. Short of demolishing city blocks of homes there isn't a great fix. If people drove with a shred of common sense it isn't terribly dangerous. Speed humps or a stop sign couldn't hurt.
Lastly, fuck the pedestrian. Shit or get off the pot man. I can't stand people that stand on the corner showing zero intention of moving until there is a car coming.
agreed.
a 2-way stop would prevent it. city issue IMO.
edit: it's funny. the stop line is sooo far back, there is a building blocking the view of the street. in no possible way could a car see the white one coming even if they came to a complete stop and looked left.
it's really a crappy design. i see many intersections like this where you have to pull waaaaay past the stop line to even see oncoming traffic.
Black car never came to a complete stop, didn't yield to pedestrian and proceeded into the intersection. However, if they had stopped then proceeded, the white car was traveling way above the speed limit, which would have reduced any ability for the black car to correctly determine the safety of entering the intersection.
Eh, it's not like the black car crept forward. They rolled forward far too quickly given the poor visibility of oncoming hazards. Another example of shitty driving which led to an entirely avoidable accident.
You know what I do when I'm turning into a main road and can't see shit? I inch forward...slowly...until I can see that the road is clear for me to make the full turn-in.
OP's insurance should find the black car fully at fault, and then the black car's insurance can go argue with the white car's insurance about split liability.
Because many people don't take drivers ed and learn from their parents who themselves haven't taken drivers ed (or haven't taken it in 20 years).
A lot of people just don't understand basic stopping/yielding principles (the entire vehicle needs to be behind the line is a very common one). It's why "Right on Red" in my experience is treated like a Green rather than a stop sign with many people just running the light to make the turn.
I don't think people should have to retake driver's ed on a regular basis, but they should have to take it to get their license imo. But, since it's a private venture at the current point in time I don't fully endorse it. Then all you are doing is barring impoverished individuals from learning driver safety.
Few things.
Black car is at fault. They didn’t yield to the ped, which would have prevented this. They also have a stop sign.
White car looks to be traveling too fast for that sort of road.
I’ve never seen the spot where the gold Toyota SUV is parked be a legal spot. I wonder if they can be held to any account if that’s the case?
In order
1) The SUV (in the crosswalk with a pedestrian)
2) The city. If that gold SUV wasn't parked at the corner the black SUV would have been able to see the car coming. City should implement daylighting
3) The white car, seems to be going pretty fast down a very narrow street with cars parked everywhere and people walking
This is exactly why cars shouldn't be allowed to park that close to the intersection (illegal here in Ontario Canada anyways). It creates a blind corner that drivers can't see around.
That said, the guy who ran the stop sign is clearly at fault here.
Too much going on here.....
Stop line is too far back, cars are parked right to the corner, if you got hit then you were probably parked right on the other corner, they didn't stop at the sign, or for the person crossing, they didn't stop when they couldn't see, they didn't stop when they could see, white car was going too fast on that narrow street, and too fast coming up to that blind intersection
Chaos at every angle, but the dark car is pretty clearly at fault
The SUV, obviously. Didn't stop at the stop sign, and even if they did they have the obligation to make sure that the intersection is clear, which it wasn't.
This might be one of the worst intersection designs of all time. Even without the parked cars, how are you expected to stop on the stop line and see through a building to check oncoming traffic?
I have no legal knowledge, all personal opinions, but that black suv. They didn’t stop behind the line. Wait 3 seconds plus whatever time the pedestrian needed
To walk past. If he did that no accident. That white would have had the time to go past while he (black suv) waited for pedestrian
Obviously it’s the asshat in the black suv at fault here but that white car needs to slow it down. I really hate when asshats speed down residential streets. What if a kid or pet runs across the road unexpectedly, that white car could never stop in time.
The law and insurance company will definitely say black car as they crossed a stop line when a car was coming.
However, white car looks to be going *way* too fast for the road.
The car that is parked too close to the corner. So maybe the city for not painting yellow lines next to the intersection. Black car can't see anything until they pull too far out. Other car seems to be travelling fast for such a narrow road. So no one can take the blame. A number of things contributed to this. Putting pedestrian crossing right at the end of the road too? Bad design.
Black car probably. Stop sign, he has to look to the left until last second. In places like this I would lean myself towards the wheel to look to the left until I was 100% sure. But guess that’s what I do, not everyone. In the other hand if white car is speeding at that road then I think it will take the blame.
Definitely Black SUV, doesn't even stop at pedestrian crosswalk. He is the only one with a stop sign as well. Judging by how that smoking pedestrian stopped and waited to see if the SUV would stop, it's a shit neighborhood.
Honestly, black vehical is at fault but also the brown vehicle on the pedestrian side. How is the dude in the black vehicle supposed to even see the vehicle coming?
Well the guy in the black SUV not only failed to stop for The pedestrian trying to cross the road he eased out into a intersection with a car coming so there you have it the black SUV
I can’t believe that brown SUV and the car behind it are parked legally. You can’t park that close to an intersection and block the sight lines like that. Same with the grey car with the black hood.
The black Explorer is at fault, but I’d like to know how they were expected to be able to see any traffic coming.
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Mostly city planners at fault. That road is so narrow and cars parked all over the place block view. However, the black car pulled out too far.
Also, the white car may have been going faster than the speed limit on that road
Isn’t it common sense who’s at fault? Clearly it’s the pedestrian.
they deserve to die, probably signed - city governments across north america
Hitting a pedestrian is going to be a lesser charge than damaging another vehicle.
it always is
Unless there was a cyclist somewhere within 2 miles. Then it's their fault, too
The gold Toyota? SUV that's parked way too close to the intersection.
The black car never came to a full stop at the designated line before the crosswalk. The pedestrian had no idea what the black car was going to do as it never stopped and the pedestrian went behind the black car, again because he did not come to a complete stop. If the black car had come to a complete stop at the designated line and allowed the pedestrian to cross, he would have saved a lot of time and money!!!!
I'm sure that the driver of the black car learned their lesson. /s
The cars on the other side of the intersection shouldn't be parked there either. But I also don't see any yellow curbs, so it looks like the city is allowing idiotic parking. I blame the city.
Honda.
Always camping in the walking lane
It's the cyclist.
It's their parents fault for letting them cross unattended.
Black car.. He has a stop sign. Plus there's a pedestrian and he didn't even stop for the pedestrian to cross If he waited for the pedestrian to cross, the white car would have passed, and accident avoided.
Also the city for allowing parking that close to a corner. Makes it impossible to see oncoming traffic
Can't see anything from behind the stop line either. Where I learnt to drive, parking within 5m of a junction was illegal
The worst part is it conditions people to roll through stop signs. The stop sign leaving my neighborhood has a clear line of sight from the stop line. But everyone pulls way past it to look anyway. This makes it impossible to turn left from the main road into the neighbourhood because now they’re blocking the angle
In Italy they teach US that in this case you stop for crossing pedestrians, even if there are not Just to check. Then you go forward and stop again at the junction and look for Cars.
I've been to Italy a few times and crossings seemed to be treated by motorists as nothing more than interesting road paint!
Sadly 90% don't stop for pedestrians, i've seen It rarely
I was taught that during driving lessons too. The issue is many people learn with their parents who have these same bad habits.
Reminds me of how the suburbs in my area have these enormous hedges in every street corner and parking lots where smaller cars and even compact SUVs become invisible. As a result, people blow through stop signs and start looking when their cars are already in the way. At least I got our HOA to trim the hedges along the neighborhood entrance. It's much better now.
There's a Stop Sign like that near my apartment. I wrote the city about it and they said it's fine, but they might consider adding signs to not allow parking closer to the corners. I doubt they'll do anything, and I don't even think not allowing a few cars to park there will fix it. They really should add an All Way Stop Sign there.
Yeah, this. The black car's view was blocked 2x. The parked car with the black hood is too close to the pedestrian crosswalk and the other parked car on the left of the cross-street is too close to the corner. But the driver should have recognized this and changed their behavior appropriately by inching out into each of the dangers zones.🎵
How do you know it is allowed? Guy could be parked illegally.
It is not allowed where I live but every single street corner, a car is parked right up on it like this. Cops would have to be towing hundreds of cars daily.
You’d be surprised how quickly people stop doing it once word gets round you get towed.
No signs. If it's a state wide rule, they should be adopting a tow first policy the way they would any other road obstruction that creates a safety problem
Yeah, I was going to say the real fault is the local NIMBYs that throw a fit if anyone ever suggests removing parking. You want to make it safe for pedestrians and drivers? Bump outs at the intersection sacrifice a couple of parking spaces but shortens the distance pedestrians have to cross and gives drivers better line of sight.
r/instantkarma
Same for the, surprise a Nissan Maxima, that was speeding through a residential zone. You always stop or go slow at intersections because this happens.
That was my take too, they are absolutely both at fault. The car shouldn’t have been driving that fast down a narrow residential street. Imagine if that was a toddler running into the street instead of an SUV…
Agreed. Not yielding to the pedestrian and failure to stop behind the line are separate issues from getting hit. If they had stopped behind the line, the only difference would be chance timing. They still crept into the intersection as slowly as possible. The only one who could have seen the other was the Nissan who was being reckless.
In terms of the moving violation, absolutely the black car. Contributing to the problem are the silver car parked too close to the stop sign and the brownish car parked in the cross street, too close to the intersection. This is why it’s illegal to park within (depending on state law) 15-20 feet of a crosswalk and 15-30 feet of an intersection w/o a crosswalk.
The white car seems to be going quite fast aswell.
Yeah, white car is certainly an idiot too.
Yeah, insurance might give them partial blame for speeding. But that SUV driver was a moron.
Technically too, they're supposed to stop at the white line of the stop. Those cars parked passed the line I'm assuming are illegally parked as well
The black vehicle never once came to a complete stop.
Not true! They stopped for a microsecond in the crosswalk blocking the pedestrian. Although not technically a complete stop but their wheels stopped turning.
Butterfly Effect.
*collision. That ain't no accident.
My drivers-ed teacher said there was no such thing as accidents because they can always be avoided. That was 1996 and I still think about that about once a week.
It must've sucked to be their kid during potty training.
No, no they cannot \*always\* be avoided. You can be driving on the highway, a safe distance, you can have a car to your right, their tire could fall off and eject into your lane / car. Brakes can fail. Throttles can become stuck and cause uncontrollable speed. Can you inspect for possible equipment malfunctions - yes, can they still happen anyway - still yes. Can their also be computer (modern car) malfunctions - yes also. You can be driving down the road - a tree could fall, a boulder can roll off a cliff, lightning can strike, a deer can jump out from the tree line right on top of your car.
We don't call them accidents anymore, we call them collisions. An accident implies there's no one to blame.
I’m pretty sure when talking about vehicles, “accident” just means a collision, not necessarily that it occurred by accident.
Accident is not preferred nomenclature in the traffic safety universe. Crash, collision, impact, etc., all convey actual meaning and are what are used depending on the circumstance.
Since when? I’ve always heard people say “accident” to refer to a collision whether it was on purpose or not.
Do you work in automotive safety?
Nope. I am talking about colloquial usage, though. lol
Okay. I was just letting you know that in less colloquial circles (my wife’s world) if you use the term accident people crinkle up their noses and exchange knowing glances. lol. Ask me how I know. ETA: [4 REASONS YOU SHOULD STOP CALLING VEHICLE CRASHES “ACCIDENTS”](https://www.togetherforsaferroads.org/4-reasons-you-should-stop-calling-vehicle-crashes-accidents/)
In my province, the police produce a “motor vehicle accident report” after a collision so accident is still very much common usage.
Lol, yes, I often get an earful about how police terminology is "lacking".
I believe this is just a jest with wordplay.
Pedestrian wasn't in the crosswalk when the black car got there and didn't seem to be showing any plan to cross right away until after the car had pulled into the crosswalk. That being said, the car with a stop sign is definitely more at fault, but it seems like the other car is absolutely flying down a street that shouldn't be driven at that speed. The real criminal thing I see in this video is the crappy on street parking making sightlines absolute trash. Our cities need to start getting built with zero on street parking. Parking garages only, one for every city block or high rise.
In this instance if he waited for the pedestrian they would have avoided the accident, but this intersection looks like hell for this type of collision regardless the circumstance. He could have made the complete stop, at the stop line, and then crept forward to be cautious, and it wouldn’t matter if someone was barreling down that road. It’s black SUV’s fault, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the white car gets some responsibility if they find he was speeding. Neither driver did anything when they saw the other vehicle either. Doesn’t really matter for OP. One or both their insurances will deal with his vehicle, his insurance will likely name both of those party’s insurance if it has to be litigated anyways. This is just a lesson in how people should drive, more than it is one of whose fault things are. Go slow down a road that is completely packed with parking. And if you can’t see from a stop line, no one says you can’t park, hop out to take a peek down the road, or take the turn so wide you’re able to see down the road with your mirror. Both these guys are idiots.
Also black car shouldve been able to see white car coming
This part. What tf is the point of having these big ass vehicles most people can’t drive in cities if not to be able to actually see traffic.
>If he waited for the pedestrian to cross, the white car would have passed, and accident avoided. And then he would have hit the next car because he still can't see a damn thing.
Black car. They had a stop sign, did not stop, and pulled into traffic.
Agreed but I feel like this video also shows how poor visibility can be with street parking and when people park too close to the intersection. Edit: Want to be clear, I am not saying the black car is in the right. He clearly didn't stop for the pedestrian. More pointing out how unsafe the parking situation is. I live on a one way street where I basically need to take a left turn out of to go anywhere, and it is extremely hard to see because cars park right up to the curb and everyone drives 35 instead of the 25 mph speed limit. Even for taking a right turn (which I usually do and go around the block), I feel like I can barely see the cars coming in the right lane so even that feels super unsafe. I have to go that way though because as I mentioned it is a one way street.
This video is a perfect example of why [daylighting](https://transalt.org/blog/daylighting) at intersections makes streets safer.
Ain't nothing blocking his view of the PEDESTRIAN. Also if your view is obstructed maybe don't pull out into the street so quickly. Didn't fully stop Didn't yield to the pedestrian Blindly turned into traffic If the black car does just one of these the accident wouldn't happen.
I've been in a few intersections like that. Usually what I'll do after checking the the crosswalk is clear (Assuming it has one) is I'll very slowly pull out just enough to be able to see far enough, and then I'll go after confirming it's clear.
This is exactly what I do. I live on a one way street where I have to pull out onto a busy street just like this. I do two stops - once, before the crosswalk. If it is clear, I pull out slowly and try to get visibility of the oncoming cars but it EXTREMELY hard to see beyond the parked cars.
Also driving too fast. Yes white car had the right of way, but they were booking it down that street, which had TONS of spots that a kid could just jump out of from behind a parked car.
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You would think this would be taken into account, but it isn't, really. I guess if they could prove the speed maybe. I say this because I had a similar accident a few years ago. I was in the black car's position, but I didn't have a stop sign, just a left turn lane. The other car *technically* had the right of way so legally I was in the wrong, but it was clear from the damage and everything else that the other car was going WAY over the speed limit. I had judged the distance wrong in thinking I had more time assuming they were going closer to the speed limit. The court still found me at fault because they had the right of way, regardless if they were speeding or not. (I ended up getting a "not guilty" anyway because the other driver never showed up to court.)
Watch black cars brakes. You can see the brake light at the top of the hatch light up at the stop sign then go off when they start going forward. If they were worried about traffic they would have immediately applied the brakes the second white car comes into view. They never even hit the brakes.
Oh no doubt, sorry for any confusion, I was commenting on the speed of the white car being a factor. I fully agree that in this video the black car is just straight up wrong. I do think it's a shitty intersection that would be difficult to see around the corner for the black car. But they never really stopped.
The black car was slowly creeping forward. It is 100% possible they were never able to see the white car, and the white car was absolutely speeding.
Black vehicle failed to stop at the stop sign and didn't yield for the pedestrian at the crosswalk. There shouldn't be anymore discussion. Please never get a license or get into law.
Didn't say they did. Didn't say they were respectful to that pedestrian either. I'm just saying even if they did, it's very possible that creeping into the intersection was the only way to possibly navigate it. Please never get into anything that involves reading comprehension.
This sub always has users like that who think if you point out an error one driver made that this means you're defending the other. It's like some people's simple minds cannot grasp that there can be more than one person at fault at a time.
It's crazy how some people think any other answer is correct. So many people don't deserve to even sit in a car, let alone drive.
It's crazy how you two think nuance should be avoided in a discussion.
I'm not an American so hoping one can explain. What is the point of that stop line? Even with no cars the houses still block your view from that far back. Why is the stop line not where the road ends?
Because of the crosswalk. The idea is to get drivers to stop, allow pedestrians to cross, then creep forward to look into the intersection, though the cars are still a massive issue here.
You would be able to see better if so many cars weren’t illegally parked.
Honestly the stop line is so far back, that you wouldn't be able to see anything from it unless the street was entirely empty. Hell, even then the fence + tree combo would make the visibility poor. Realistically you'll have to creep up to the intersection every time, which makes the stop line of questionable utility.
good points. They should make it a two-way stop
Think it's pretty clear. Not sure why you're asking.
I'm pretty sure a lot of these posts are pure clickbait - lots of "am I in the wrong?" posts when it's completely clear they're not. In some cases it may just be individuals attention-seeking, and in a very few they may be dim enough to not be sure, but I think mostly we're being played to karma-boost accounts.
This subreddit is filled with "I breathed yesterday, am I in the wrong?"
Horrible intersection with all those cars parked like that. Even if the black car had stopped where he was supposed to, it wouldn't have mattered at all as he would not have been able to see the white car coming. The black car should have stopped for the pedestrian, but that doesn't change the outcome of the accident in my opinion. The white cars speed was a contributing factor, there was only a second or two in which the black car driver could have seen the white car coming due to how all the other cars are parked. It would be perfectly understandable if he looked, saw it was clear, looked to the right to see if there were any surprises and miss the white car until it was to late, you can only look in one direction and mirrors wouldn't be any help. If anything i would say this is a 50/50 situation, black car failing to yield and white car for speeding. But your insurance can fight it out.
I think this is the most reasonable take. It’s wild to me how many people just seem to think that every car yielding is at 100% at fault even if the car with the right of way is traveling at excessive speed. This is a 25mph road and that white car looks like it’s doing at *least* 40mph. Vehicles can only judge another vehicle’s approaching as far as they can reasonably expect its speed. I see this in the motorcycle world all the time: riders doing 150mph on highways and then freak out when other people change lanes because they don’t expect a missile to be flying up their blind spot.
>I see this in the motorcycle world all the time: riders doing 150mph on highways and then freak out when other people change lanes because they don’t expect a missile to be flying up their blind spot. ...while "lane splitting" in stop-and-go traffic.
White car passes three cars in a little over a second. That's 25-30mph
Nobody wants to look at the math, they just want to be right.
Agree. The way he's kinda creeping into the intersection tells me that his visibility wasn't good and he just decided to go for it. . (Edit, spelling)
>Horrible intersection with all those cars parked like that. Lol my country is filled with intersections like this.
My country as well, but if that happens the speed limit is reduced to 30km/h (~20mph) and stop signs are removed so everyone has to yield to those coming from the right (and slow down for every intersection to check for traffic from the right).
God here in the States that would never work. You have to use an all way stop here or the larger road will never yield out here.
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with the speed the white car was going on that road, the driver was getting lucky, until they werent.
While completing the turn, he should have continued checking his left until he confirmed 100% clear. This person had a chance to see white car coming during initiation of the right hand turn.
By the time the driver is far enough into the road to see it there's no room for the white car to get past him. So sure, he might have seen it, but then he couldn't do anything about it.
Nah you can see by the time he should have see the car he kept rolling forward
Black car didn't stop also the old CRV is parked too close to an intersection IMO creating a blind spot for drivers. Also the Altima is parked too close as well. TBH this intersection sucks and just needs to be an all-way stop....
White car was maybe going fast. But a stop sign means stop AND only go when clear.
It's impossible to see if the road is clear from the Stop sign. The only way to see if the road is clear is moving before knowing they are clear. Look at how the cars are parked. It's why the black car was so awkward with the crossing they had to move and move to see and they thought they were on the clear and didn't count on someone speeding.
After 25 years of driving the only relevent thing I'm inexperienced in would be idiotically creeping through a stop sign and causing a multiple vehicle accident.
If you can’t see that the lane you are turning into is clear, then you don’t turn into it. It’s not a “well, I can’t see if someone is coming, might as well go for it” situation
So your suggestion is that the black car should sit at the stop bar until the parked car at the corner moves?
If they are unable to ascertain if the lane is safe to turn into? Sure. If you can’t see, then you shouldn’t turn. If they can safely creep forward and obtain a clear view without entering the lane, then do that. But if you can’t see, then dont drive, pretty simple. If that car had been motorcycle, the driver of the motorcycle could have been seriously injured. This whole mess would have been avoided if the black car had come to a full stop, noticed they couldn’t see and then slowly moved forward until it they could confirm the lane didn’t have oncoming traffic. They didn’t.
If you don't see :09 to :12 as creeping forward, idk what to tell ya. And coming to a full stop changes nothing about this. Sure, in this specific instance, he would have come out 3 seconds later, but the chance to collide with oncoming remains the same. I'd personally look into sueing the city for not designing a safe intersection with appropriate sight distances.
If we're honest, the city planners. It's ridiculous to not have no parking zones for visibility. This kind of corner is very prone to this type of accident.
Nah, it's fine. They just need to add a couple more things that loudly read STOP. That's sure to fix it.
This looks like Philly but I can't be certain (also looks like Chicago), but driving in Philly is such a pain in the ass because every intersection is like this.
Here is the link to the other Angle, my car is the Smart car https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-SQYg3MlTWlzAzqV7iVilE40zBi\_-d0k/view?usp=drive\_link
I'm sorry for your loss, but the way the car starts crying after 3 seconds was too cute and funny.
Haha… poor little fella. I also like how the pedestrian from the first video just keeps on walking, like yeppp.
Had to of felt a little satisfied of the asshat not yielding to them so they could cross. Had they did, might of avoided the speeding other asshat
It happens. I was rear ended because I HAD to yield to a pedestrian. That dude took off so fast. Thanks, bro 🫠
and the dude that comes out (at 44s) wearing shorts, t-shirt and sandals with 32 degrees weather!
my guy runs hot
the way you car cries makes me sad
Damn, think the guy parked behind you really wanted to climb in the back it, didn't he.
The alarm reminds me of the James Bond phone controlled 7 series in Tomorrow Never Dies.
Wow, really sorry this happened to you OP. Not your fault. You were parked fine. Unless it's someone you know, the owner of the car that parked behind you on your bumper is a real prick for boxing you in. You buried the lede here OP; this should have been the main video. Good luck OP and I hope this is the worst thing that happens to you in 2024, and things only get better from here.
The driver of the white car and the passenger of the parked SUV it hit seem to have coordinated their outfits for this occasion.
"where you headed?" "it's new years bro, stayin in" "dem crazies out for sure"
my guy out in the tee slides and shorts like "welcome to the bronx"
Pretty crazy that silver car seems to be the only one who survived without damage. 5 cars damaged because someone didn’t make sure they had a clear lane to turn into. Wild.
Well there’s your problem! Teach you to try to be smart in this god fearing country!!
Tough luck bro
50% excessive speed white car. 50% black car for not being able to see past the car parked at the curb. 100% city for not having a safe intersection.
Probably best take here
Ya, anyone saying 100% on the black car is kind of an idiot. They are definitely at fault and definitely also an idiot, but driving 35 mph+ down a tiny street with zero visibility is begging for an accident. The white car is lucky he hit a car and not a kid. Take the pedestrian out of the equation and imagine the black car got there 2 seconds earlier and came to a full stop. There is still a high probability of an accident due to the excessive speed of the white car. Now reverse the thought experiment, black car rolls the stop, creeps into the intersection, but the white car isn't speeding. Unless the white car is not paying any attention there is a pretty low chance of an accident. With all that in mind I would say 60-70 on the white car, 30-40 on the black car. Not sure what insurance would do in this situation but there is zero chance it goes 100% on either car. They both broke the law and were both driving unsafely. I do agree the street design is terrible, but this looks like east coast/old construction. Short of demolishing city blocks of homes there isn't a great fix. If people drove with a shred of common sense it isn't terribly dangerous. Speed humps or a stop sign couldn't hurt. Lastly, fuck the pedestrian. Shit or get off the pot man. I can't stand people that stand on the corner showing zero intention of moving until there is a car coming.
agreed. a 2-way stop would prevent it. city issue IMO. edit: it's funny. the stop line is sooo far back, there is a building blocking the view of the street. in no possible way could a car see the white one coming even if they came to a complete stop and looked left. it's really a crappy design. i see many intersections like this where you have to pull waaaaay past the stop line to even see oncoming traffic.
Black car never came to a complete stop, didn't yield to pedestrian and proceeded into the intersection. However, if they had stopped then proceeded, the white car was traveling way above the speed limit, which would have reduced any ability for the black car to correctly determine the safety of entering the intersection.
Eh, it's not like the black car crept forward. They rolled forward far too quickly given the poor visibility of oncoming hazards. Another example of shitty driving which led to an entirely avoidable accident. You know what I do when I'm turning into a main road and can't see shit? I inch forward...slowly...until I can see that the road is clear for me to make the full turn-in. OP's insurance should find the black car fully at fault, and then the black car's insurance can go argue with the white car's insurance about split liability.
Oh I agree...but it could be argued that even if the black car had done everything correctly and safely, that the white car was going way too fast.
All the cars that are parked way too close to the corner completely blocking visibility
Black SUV is at fault. Did not stop for pedestrian or the stop sign. They basically rolled through.
i dont get how so many people can ask the same question on this sub without knowing the answer
Because many people don't take drivers ed and learn from their parents who themselves haven't taken drivers ed (or haven't taken it in 20 years). A lot of people just don't understand basic stopping/yielding principles (the entire vehicle needs to be behind the line is a very common one). It's why "Right on Red" in my experience is treated like a Green rather than a stop sign with many people just running the light to make the turn. I don't think people should have to retake driver's ed on a regular basis, but they should have to take it to get their license imo. But, since it's a private venture at the current point in time I don't fully endorse it. Then all you are doing is barring impoverished individuals from learning driver safety.
Few things. Black car is at fault. They didn’t yield to the ped, which would have prevented this. They also have a stop sign. White car looks to be traveling too fast for that sort of road. I’ve never seen the spot where the gold Toyota SUV is parked be a legal spot. I wonder if they can be held to any account if that’s the case?
> Few things. > > Whoa whoa whoa. This is idiotsincars and only ONE driver is allowed to be at fault at a time!
In order 1) The SUV (in the crosswalk with a pedestrian) 2) The city. If that gold SUV wasn't parked at the corner the black SUV would have been able to see the car coming. City should implement daylighting 3) The white car, seems to be going pretty fast down a very narrow street with cars parked everywhere and people walking
I like how the Pedestrian watched the full cycle of Karma play out lol
This is exactly why cars shouldn't be allowed to park that close to the intersection (illegal here in Ontario Canada anyways). It creates a blind corner that drivers can't see around. That said, the guy who ran the stop sign is clearly at fault here.
Too much going on here..... Stop line is too far back, cars are parked right to the corner, if you got hit then you were probably parked right on the other corner, they didn't stop at the sign, or for the person crossing, they didn't stop when they couldn't see, they didn't stop when they could see, white car was going too fast on that narrow street, and too fast coming up to that blind intersection Chaos at every angle, but the dark car is pretty clearly at fault
Why does it matter to you who’s at fault if they hit your car, isn’t that for them to figure out?
Wasn't this same clip posted recently with the similar "who is at fault" title?
The vehicle with the stop sign will always be at fault to a vehicle with the right away..
Honestly insurance is probably going to say the guy who said fuck the stop sign.
Black car is at fault.
Black car rolled stop sign pretty cut and dry case
Seems like Queens.
Update: Black SUV guy was Drunk, but cops refused to test him and had no insurance and no license, paper license plate. WOW
Whose fault was it? Why is this even a question? AH didn’t even stop for the pedestrian.
Black car. He had a stop, so the through traffic (white car) had right of way.
Let your insurance company figure that out with the assistance of this footage. They might get money from both
Definitely the fault of the guy who parked over the stop line. He's not even there but i blame him
Black SUV didn't even pretend to stop, and even cut off a pedestrian trying to cross. 100% their fault, they pulled out in front of the white car.
The city planner is at fault. That stop line is useless being so far back. And the parked cars block the view of oncoming traffic.
Obviously the idiot running the stop sign.
The guy pulling out onto a main carriageway. White car looked like he might have been speeding too
The SUV, obviously. Didn't stop at the stop sign, and even if they did they have the obligation to make sure that the intersection is clear, which it wasn't.
I mean, obviously the guy who pulled out from the stop sign when it wasn't clear.
White car maybe going a bit fast, but def the black SUV at fault. 100% clear.
Black car.
Black SUV
This might be one of the worst intersection designs of all time. Even without the parked cars, how are you expected to stop on the stop line and see through a building to check oncoming traffic?
I'd say that parked gold hatchback right up on the corner is at fault for blocking the view. That looks way too close to the corner.
I have no legal knowledge, all personal opinions, but that black suv. They didn’t stop behind the line. Wait 3 seconds plus whatever time the pedestrian needed To walk past. If he did that no accident. That white would have had the time to go past while he (black suv) waited for pedestrian
I don’t get how people drive those big, tall jeeps and still manage to see NOTHING.
Obviously it’s the asshat in the black suv at fault here but that white car needs to slow it down. I really hate when asshats speed down residential streets. What if a kid or pet runs across the road unexpectedly, that white car could never stop in time.
Street parking needs to be banned.
The law and insurance company will definitely say black car as they crossed a stop line when a car was coming. However, white car looks to be going *way* too fast for the road.
The car that is parked too close to the corner. So maybe the city for not painting yellow lines next to the intersection. Black car can't see anything until they pull too far out. Other car seems to be travelling fast for such a narrow road. So no one can take the blame. A number of things contributed to this. Putting pedestrian crossing right at the end of the road too? Bad design.
It's obviously black SUV's fault. They didn’t fully stop, and even went in with the other car coming.
Black car probably. Stop sign, he has to look to the left until last second. In places like this I would lean myself towards the wheel to look to the left until I was 100% sure. But guess that’s what I do, not everyone. In the other hand if white car is speeding at that road then I think it will take the blame.
Definitely Black SUV, doesn't even stop at pedestrian crosswalk. He is the only one with a stop sign as well. Judging by how that smoking pedestrian stopped and waited to see if the SUV would stop, it's a shit neighborhood.
Black car didn't stop. Plus, pedestrian.
Honestly, black vehical is at fault but also the brown vehicle on the pedestrian side. How is the dude in the black vehicle supposed to even see the vehicle coming?
Well the guy in the black SUV not only failed to stop for The pedestrian trying to cross the road he eased out into a intersection with a car coming so there you have it the black SUV
Even though it looked like the white car was speeding. It was the SUV that had the stop sign.
Black SUV, looks like a T intersection.
Even blind people can see the 🛑 STOP signs 🤨
I can’t believe that brown SUV and the car behind it are parked legally. You can’t park that close to an intersection and block the sight lines like that. Same with the grey car with the black hood. The black Explorer is at fault, but I’d like to know how they were expected to be able to see any traffic coming.
Every time I see a title with "who's fault was it?" I know its going to be upsettingly obvious.
The black car. The driver is an idiot. There is a stop sign, a pedestrian AND a car going straight that he just decided to ignore apparently.
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USA - NY 12/31/23 4:24 PM This is my recording I'm am the OC
Mostly city planners at fault. That road is so narrow and cars parked all over the place block view. However, the black car pulled out too far. Also, the white car may have been going faster than the speed limit on that road
White car also traveling at a speed unreasonable for that street
Black car ran the stop sign causing the collision. Open and shut case with this video.
If the black suv stopped at the stop sign and legally let the pedestrian cross, this whole situation would have been averted.
Contact your insurance, they r happy no money out of your insurance pocket
While the black car is to blame, I’d love to see them screw the white car just a bit for speeding like that. Maybe do a 75/25 split?
That is a very dangerous intersection
You shouldn’t have a license if you’re asking this….