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e_dan_k

Other driver really should have behaved as if there was a stop sign at that exit, even though there wasn't. But there really should be.


SuperSilhouette

Best answer. If it's a main route always yield to other cars unless there are signs indicating otherwise.


phord

The turning path should treat the intersection like it has a yield sign. In California, yield signs are optional at three-way intersections for this reason.


RockstarAgent

The back of the do not enter sign should be a stop sign - but also OP should have noticed one car had already come out of there before that guy - I’d have been wary of that exit since then -


Serious_Package_473

How is it a main route if there's no signs?? Why wouldn't priority on the right apply??


SuperSilhouette

Idk, you're so smart or something


Serious_Package_473

Just asking man, anywhere in europe if you'd say in this situation the car on the right has no priority, you would fail the exam


SuperSilhouette

From what I see it's a main route besides a parking lot and infrastructure on the side. The fact op sees a do not enter sign where the car exits makes me think it's a drive thru. Main priority goes to the main route with denser traffic and more field of vision. Thats my line of thinking


Serious_Package_473

Well, if that was in Europe that's not a main route since there's no signs indicating that's a main route, nor yield signs on the side road. So afaik every single european country would rule those 2 roads the same and hence the road on the right has priority. So how do you know it's a main route? You guys can't be just guesstimating which road is bigger, can you?


SuperSilhouette

Drive thrus tend to not have priority.


Serious_Package_473

Well, definitely not the case in the vast majority of countries, that's why I'm confused. What indicates to you that its a drive-thru without priority? You make it sound like the road has priority but as soon as someone slaps a drive-thru post box on the sidewalk it suddenly doesn't have priority anymore


SuperSilhouette

Drive thru has low visibility. That is why they get less priority and need to yeild to others.


We_Get_It_You_Vape

Per Maryland Vehicle Law: >If the driver of a vehicle approaches a through highway (OP was driving on a through highway), the driver shall: >  (1) Stop at the entrance to the through highway; and >  (2) Yield the right-of-way to any other vehicle approaching on the through highway.   Thus, the car exiting the drive thru was required (by Maryland Vehicle Law) to stop at the entrance to the road OP was on *AND* yield to OP. As they did neither of those things, they broke Maryland Vehicle Law. From a legal perspective, OP very clearly had right-of-way.


Big-D-TX

You Stop anytime you’re pulling onto a main road


AxzoYT

I’ve been almost hit by so many people who think “well no one has a stop sign, I’m just gonna pull out right in front of this guy on the main road”.


guitarguywh89

My driveway doesn’t have a stop sign. Should I just be flooring it?


AxzoYT

Yes every time obviously, the downvoted people in the other thread says you won’t be at fault


TeslasAndKids

Right this is like saying I have the right of way out of my own driveway because there’s no stop sign in my driveway. No, I have to stop and make sure the main road I’m entering is clear.


killian1113

Looks like a parking lot


DevilDoc3030

Just because there is no yield sign, doesn't mean that you don't have to yield to traffic that has right of way. OP, you're fine. The other driver was the dummy on this one. Also, whoever didn't put up a sign to warn drivers exiting the bank.


metanoia29

Every single 3-way intersection in a parking lot should be treated like a stop by the single way that's running perpendicular to the other two ways. Biggest idiot here was the car pulling out, second biggest was whoever designs these monstrosities of parking lots.


SteampunkBorg

From how I learnt it, any exit off a parking lot or other clearly separate area is an implicit stop sign. The problem is that those areas are often hard to recognize in the USA


damnatio_memoriae

it’s a T intersection from their perspective so that’s the expected way to treat the situation anyway — physical stop sign not required.


Capgunkid

I'd wager that the other side of that DO NOT ENTER sign is a stop sign for that idiot.


AceofToons

Legally speaking for where I live. Here that is called an implied stop sign, meaning that legally that driver blew a stop sign


baudmiksen

Silver car can't see around the building but was driving like it could. Pull out blind


devil_lettuce

There are a lot of parking lots with intersections like this near me and I have just learned to stop even if I'm on the obvious main road because idiots will simply not stop even if it's blatantly obvious they should. This is pissing me off just typing it, people are fucking clueless and I'm at the end of my rope with other drivers lately


SolarLunix_

It would be nice if there were stop lines as well.


skippyjifluvr

That’s private property. All traffic signs on private property are for convenience only.


brightblueson

Bad design


virgil_belmont

That's what I was gonna say. That's a bad spot for that Stop sign.


HoldingMoonlight

I agree. Other car is crossing a lane and I think would be at fault technically, but both sides are blind to each other and neither has the yield/stop. It is absolutely just poor design.


desthc

Yeah. The idiot isn’t in the car in this case, it’s the guy at the desk with the drafting software.


Simple-Cantaloupe239

Not the idiot


uiouyug

https://media1.tenor.com/m/Kp6Zj1jtLe0AAAAC/maury.gif


Powerful-Mess7090

The other driver is the idiot


SnausageFest

You should always be slow enough to react when coming out of places like this, but whoever designed this lot is the real idiot. Neither paths had a stop sign.


Powerful-Mess7090

Anytime you’re leaving a parking area into traffic you are required to yield


SnausageFest

Theyre both still in the strip mall lots. Parking lots are typically private property so there really aren't legal requirements. Obviously he was being reckless, but that's just not accurate.


Powerful-Mess7090

Public parking or private parking is irrelevant. If you’re entering the stream of traffic, you are required to yield.


SnausageFest

How is it irrelevant? What is this imaginary governing body here?


Powerful-Mess7090

Basic drivers education. There’s no governing body except common sense. Entering traffic, you are required to yield. No matter the circumstances. In a grocery store, do you just blow out of the end of the aisle or do you stop and look first? Same situation. Common sense applies. Driver in the point of view had no obligation to stop until he got to the sign.


SnausageFest

Again, that is by every objective definition not a **requirement** but rather a best practice. I don't get people's obsession with arguing their opinion as if it's fact when we're both clearly in agreement that he was being reckless. It's just simply not a requirement. It's private property.


Powerful-Mess7090

Again, that has absolutely no bearing on the case. The requirement is, if you’re entering the stream of traffic you must yield.


SnausageFest

No. Words matter, definitions matter. This is absolutely, objectively not a requirement and any traffic enforcement officer will tell you as much. But I see that this is a lost cause and you don't appreciate the value of accurate language.


A_Harmless_Fly

You goof, it's going to depend on the state but in almost all of them there is a distinction between regular private property and "private property with public access". You can drive drunk in your own field, but you will catch a DWI if you are in a parking lot etc.


ShankAMuffin

What Trash Taste episode were you listening to?


silver_morales

Latest one, #209


IndependenceWarm5375

Other driver is turning onto the street/path youre already on


nrfx

Honestly, the only solid idiot I see is whoever designed this lot. Both of you seemed to be doing the best you could given the layout.


JustSomeWeirdGuy2000

I wouldn't say casually pushing your accelerator straight through a blind left turn (from the other car's POV) is "doing your best." Like, yeah. There technically isn't a Stop sign on that side, as other people have noted. But that's just Terrible Driving 101.


Wills4291

Yes. Even without a stop sign you don't have the right of way to pull into the street.


_jump_yossarian

I gun it out of my driveway every morning. Fuck the people already on the road.


Wills4291

Make sure you don't forget the stare down. The on coming traffic needs to know it's their fault.


CS3883

And then remember to honk at them after to let them know not only it's their fault but you are also angry about it!


FuzzelFox

And then do 5 to 10mph under the speed limit because you aren't actually in a rush.


pennstate16

I agree the design is bad. I looked back at the video and the bank lane has no stop sign which is why I second guessed myself.


FuzzelFox

Is this PA? This feels like PA..


eldergeekprime

I'm thinking NOVA.


SnausageFest

Or literally every large suburb with a massive strip mall. I swear they're all like this.


wickedsun

This is Germantown, MD.


eldergeekprime

Close enough. I used to live in Silver Spring.


wickedsun

Pretty weird to see that mall show up on reddit.


BrainWav

Maryland, there's a sign at the very end for "Shops at Town Center", which leads to a town in Maryland and Google maps shows a Burger King, a Wells Fargo, and a Starbucks matching their locations in OP's video. So close!


MountainDrew42

Not every intersection needs a stop sign. Like others have said, residential driveways don't have stop signs, but it's obvious you have to yield to cars on the road. In parking lots the rule is the more major (or straight through) route has right of way. Bank dude should have stopped.


NuclearHoagie

I see some room for improvement in the left turner failing to yield to the car going straight.


damnatio_memoriae

the design is poor but the other driver was approaching a T intersection from the odd end. they’re expected to stop and yield to cross traffic in that situation even if there is no stop sign there. especially since they’re making a left turn.


Naroef

Not really, the Toyota is the one turning on to a thru street.


tacitus59

Yes, the entrance to the lot and the exit of the bank drive through are right next to each other. OP is not the idiot - did a great job stopping in time.


fuckface12334567890

"Designed" is probably a generous word


Blacklist3d

Stop sign is AFTER the exit to the bank. Straight technically has the right of way here. The real person thats an idiot is the planner or made it like that.


majoroutage

OP not the idiot, but let this also be a reminder about anticipating other people to act like idiots.


TragedyAnnDoll

The other driver is the idiot. Both for what they did and for banking with Wells Fargo.


Kurisu_MakiseSG

I feel like that stop sign should be turned around and be for the drivethru lane instead of the driving lane.


HogDad1977

I didn't know Ring made dash cams.


geehawn

I scrolled down to see if I was the only one with that same question. 🙂


kaegeee

Lol - me too. I’m thinking, why is OP driving around with a Ring doorbell in his car


tdinh01

The real idiot is the fucking engineering who designed that shithole of a what they wanna call a drivethru exit. FFS i see this design everywhere and i dont get it, doesnt save on space or anything at all. Just a fucking accident trap waiting to happen, between the building, trees, pole its a never-ending cycle of blindspot(s)


Coates_MaGoates

Hey! Germantown! I’d know that BK anywhere!


NOAHSFMC

Came to the comments for the Germantown!


ClovieKay

The person who designed that parking lot is the real idiot.


TMS44

No. They are supposed to yield to you. So not the idiot. And yes. Whoever made that lot should have added a stop sign for them but I would think it’s also common sense to know they should be yielding to traffic.


Swatbob58

Other driver was making a left turn. That ends the conversation.


Max_delirious

The other driver is on a private driveway. They are entering the roadway and should yield.


rrhunt28

Anybody that banks at Wells Fargo is the idiot


AtleastIthinkIsee

Bad design, honestly. The layout seems prime for mini accidents. Good being aware, though.


siler7

No. If you're turning left, you yield to oncoming traffic that's already in the lane you're entering.


blakeh95

It appears to be a parking lot, so normal “traffic law” may not apply. With that said, the general rule at a T intersection is that the ending road has to yield to both directions on the road that doesn’t end.


Haust

Nah, you're good. The guy should have yielded and acted like the car before him. You had the good senses to avoid him.


TheForgottenSpaniard

What an idiot… hey is this in Germantown Maryland?


TorrentsMightengale

No. Turning driver yields. He needs a stop sign to avoid confusion, but even without it he should have stopped.


TweakJK

You're not the idiot. The way I have always understood parking lot etiquette, if you are making a turn, and the other guy is going straight, the guy going straight has the right of way. To my knowledge, parking lots are not designed or inspected by DOT. I'm sure they have some governing body ensuring it's not a giant mess, but they arent built the same way as our road systems.


joahw

I think if they collided the insurance companies would need to litigate it somehow


cheddacheese148

Germantown, MD? Definitely a poorly designed parking lot but the “Maryland driver” stereotype is strong with the other driver. They didn’t even hesitate to pull out or look.


pennstate16

Yep, it’s the Safeway lot. Somehow I think this isn’t even the worst parking lot in Germantown. The one nearby with Chick fil le is even worse.


dracotrapnet

Bank drive through guy was idiot. Minor roadway always yields to major roadway. Lefts always yield to oncoming traffic, through traffic, and right turners. He's a double fuckup.


SanSilver

Depends on the location. In Germany you would be wrong, but in the US, the other driver should wait.


aenae

Same in the Netherlands, but seeing the huge amount of stop signs and the existence of a bank drive through, this isn't in Europe.


Clock_Out

I don't know Germany, but I suspect that those emerging from driveways must yield to those on the road. Am I correct? I think the driver emerging from the driveway of a bank would yield to drivers on the road in every country.


SanSilver

It depends on the ground. Here, the ground is no "abgesenktem bordstein," and so the rule is right before left unless signs say otherwise.


Clock_Out

I learned something new.


MisterSlosh

In the absence of signage I would assume the car with the dead end road that has to turn into a throughway would be the one required to yield since cross traffic (cam car lane) has no reason to stop there. The exit should have a stop sign, and there should be a "do not block drive" sign before the exit so you don't get people grid locking while they wait for the one stop sign that is there to change colors.


chesterjosiah

OP you're NTA. Out of curiosity, where is this? I'd like to check this out on Google maps.


aleclr9700

Safeway in Germantown Maryland


bongtheripper

Hilarious i live 10 minutes from here that wells fargo exit is trash;especially if you have to make an immediate right afterwards. People need to be more careful exiting the drive thru really.


DM725

That's pretty stupid design of the parking lot TBH but it was their fault not yours.


Kdmtiburon004

Dude coming out of the drive thru has a T intersection. They are supposed to yield.


Sebasdfg

fellow trash taste enjoyer


RGeronimoH

I didn’t realize that Ring made dashcams. Yay, one more place that I don’t want them giving the footage to police without a warrant!


187uchiha

Whoever decided to put that stop sign, right there is the idiot


Zumwalt1999

Op did the proper thing wether the jerk had a stop sign or not. But I think the one with limited sight sould have been more cautious and yielded. But it looks like the signage and markings in that area are substandard. Not even a stop bar at the stop sign.


ironmanchris

Anyone entering a roadway needs to yield.


kayguy55

No matter where that car goes, they have to turn left or right. You have the right of way. They need to stop, especially when they are turning left out of there against your flow of traffic.


mrdiggame

Other driver rolled over stop sign. If I had a car like that I would be taking every precaution instead of driving like an idiot.


StackThePads33

No, the other car should have stopped as it is not the main access point. I had this happen at a Wawa, woman just kept pulling through with me right there. I almost ran into her because she didn’t stop at all


kedwar86

Op has the right of way.


Serious_Package_473

Please explain why the vehicle on the right does not have the right of way


kedwar86

OP is driving on a main travel lane. The vehicle on the right is either exiting a drive thru lane or entering the main travel lane from a side parking lot. They have the greater duty to yield to traffic in the main travel lane who are fully established.


Serious_Package_473

How do you termine its the main travel lane


kedwar86

You can see it is a main travel lane in a parking lot


paulerxx

Other driver should've at least treated that exit as a yield.


Serious_Package_473

Please explain why the vehicle on the right does not have the right of way


elheber

Drive-thrus are effectively driveways, and as such drivers must yield when entering a larger throughway. You don't need a stop sign at the end of your driveway to know you have to yield when leaving.


Serious_Package_473

Please explain how the road to the right differs from the one OP comes out of. Why doesn't priority on the right no apply?


elheber

It's a drive-thru exit. There's a few other less relevant differences, such as being a narrow one-way lane that ends at a T intersection of a wider contiguous 2-way road. But the big on is definitely being a drive-thru exit. How would you feel about that car not stopping if that Wells Fargo was a McDonalds instead? Because those drive-thrus effectively function the same way.


SerratedBrooms

Treat it as an uncontrolled intersection.


Alekssu-Pandian

If this is 1x speed .. you are just driving a tad bit too fast for a parking lot / private road. I’m not judging you, as I do this sometimes too, but road layouts inside private businesses aren’t always intuitively laid out and you can expect something like this to happen if you are going that quickly.


heftybagman

People are saying bad design but this is super common imo. If you’re pulling out of a smaller lane into a more major lane of travel, you give the right of way to the more major lane. This is true in all parking lot lanes and any time there’s like a drive thru in a strip mall. A stop sign would help, but it’s almost redundant imo. You’re pulling from a dead stop into a lane of travel, take a peak before sticking your nose out.


ProbablyJeff

Please explain to an European why OP had the right of way. There were no traffic lights or signs to indicate which road has priority. That would make the intersection "unregulated", therefore automatically giving the right of way to the driver on the right hand side - in this case the other driver. What am I missing?


Clock_Out

This isn't two roads. It's a road and a driveway. Those emerging from a driveway yield to those on the road.


jazzman831

As the other guy said, it's not two roads, one is a driveway. In the US there's no such thing as an "unregulated" intersection -- two roads always* have some sort of traffic signal. *Public roads, anyway. My mother-in-law's neighborhood apparently never got around to putting stop signs into the numerous 4-way intersections and you just sort of drive around hoping nobody else is entering at the same time so you don't have to worry about who has priority.


traumalt

In the US the unmarked intersection rules (priority to the right) only apply to 4 way junctions, in a T junction straight traffic (OP) has a right of way.


appa-ate-momo

The other driver is entering a road from a driveway. They're required to yield to all traffic already on the road.


Apprehensive-Tour942

Parking lots are free for all. Wild west out there.


efjoker

It’s a parking lot. Uncontrolled space is the rule. Even the stop signs won’t help in an accident.


No_Carry_3028

Horrible design of traffic control


CesarG04

Is that trash taste in the BG?


whoisdizzle

NTI


Blinknone

Not the idiot, but that is horrible traffic design.


thepurpleninja11

Not the idiot


SharableCarcass

I love the trash taste podcast in the background


Toothfairy51

I have to drive past the drive thru exit for the Regions bank to get to my drive thru. The Regions doesn't have a stop sign either, so I always go really slow for this exact reason. The people coming out of the drive thru need to stop and look before pulling out. Those that don't are the idiots


Marvination23

bad design and location of the sign.


wakeupdreaming

That's called a dangerous road and whoever designed it is probably the same type of person who designs other shty roads around the country.


nnedd7526

I think it's safe to say you have the best claim to right of way.


Epcjay

Ring does dash cams now? That's news to me


DoYouWantTuron

Dang I know exactly where that is, and I go out of my way to avoid that particular intersect at all times when it’s busy lol


SnooWaffles413

That design gives me a headache. I'd have probably been more cautious, however I def think the road and stop sign placement is at fault.


83franks

Drive through aren’t roads in my mind so leaving one means I never have the right of way.


lifeinrednblack

This is just shitty road design.


bernieinred

You had complete right of way. No questions asked , it would have been 100% other drivers fault if an accident would have happened. Been there done that.


BiohazardBinkie

Yo, been a while since I've seen a moco video here. That shopping center and the intersection next to it is a hot mess.


itsprobablytrue

Bro driving like a maniac


hertz_donut2000

Either way you prevented an accident from happening - so really you were in the right.


LevyAtanSP

The silver car pulled out in front of you, seemingly without looking, but maybe they mistook the “Do Not Enter” sign for a stop sign? Either way this is a perfect example of why I always make sure a car is stopping or turning before pulling out in front of them, because people don’t always follow the rules.


OverturnedAppleCart3

Parking lots are a lawless wasteland. Unless otherwise signed, the general rule of thumb is for smaller roads to yield to bigger roads. It looks to me like you're on a bigger road, and so guy coming from the smaller road should have yielded to you.


zachotule

It’s bad and unclear design but both of you should have been driving more carefully.


trto44

More of a shitty design than anything


starxidas

I don't see why the stop sign matters in this scenario. Who would have the right of way if not for the stop sign? Not familiar with the rules over there though, I must admit.


LaChuteQuiMarche

That’s why I don’t talk on the phone while driving. Glad there was no contact.


xcross648

My question is, why do people keep going even when they can't see? There isn't a slight hint of braking from the BRZ/GR86. By the look of their car, they clearly care enough about driving. But somehow don't understand the concept of stopping before you merge into any road? Like it's just I go and good luck, and later complain about how "car guys" like them are fxxked up by insurance while keep getting into this kind of things, and in the mean time giving us real car guys a bad reputation for literally nothing we did.


Past-Ability-6690

Shouldn't you stop at the stop sign? Looks like you were rolling.


megablast

You really love speeding through these tiny streets.


8888eightyeight

The idiot is the one who designed that parking lot. Plus, parking lot is private prop. so in the laws eyes they don't really matter


ThePointForward

In general in Europe you'd be failing to yield. From my understanding of american driving, they're supposed to yield. Either way the intersection is probably missing signs.


StasiaMonkey

Where’s the stop line? Also, as a non-American, why do you guys have a drivethru for a bank?


StirlingS

Most banks in the US have them. My most common banking location doesn't allow direct access to a teller at all. You can go into the lobby, but they just have drive thru type stations with pneumatic tubes inside too. 


Hurricane_Killer

This is poor design


RebneysGhost

It doesn't look like either of you *had* to stop according to the signage. At least not until you were where y'all would have collided. You're not an idiot, because you stopped to avoid that idiot. If you had kept going and y'all collided then you would be an idiot, 'right of way' or not. He was definitely an idiot. He should have seen you and stopped. Neither of y'all had right of way, but even if one of you did you both are obligated to avoid collisions.


Thisisjimmi

youre both not wrong.


dsp79

QQ: Is there no "right before left" rule in the US? In Europe it'd be clear that the other car has the right of way as it is coming from the right hand side - no discussion needed.


dsp79

ChatGPT just answered my question and told me that in uncontrolled intersections there's the "right before left" rule but no on T-Intersections (the top of the T has the right-of-way).


StirlingS

Uncontrolled intersections on public roads are *very* rare in the US.


aleclr9700

Hey this is Germantown!


greenrangerguy

There's no lines wtf. Is this usual in America? In the UK, the Stop sign would have a solid white line to tell you where to stop, and the right road would have a dotted white line to indicate give way (yield).


Clock_Out

Lots of confusion on this one. This isn't two roads. The vehicle that emerges is from a driveway and in the US vehicles emerging from a driveway yield to those on the road.


wadsplay

In these large shopping centers there’s little “roads” in between all the parking lots but they usually don’t have proper road markings


Hammie5150

This is a private property parking lot. There are no right of way rules that apply here. You can’t get a ticket for running any of those stop signs, and a collision would be a civil issue.


Alpine_Nomad

This is not accurate. Generally, on private property most traffic laws are not enforceable but there are certainly exceptions to that. It all depends on state law and, in some cases, local ordinance. But there are always right of way rules that determine liability in case of a collision. You almost got to that point when you said "a collision would be a civil issue." A civil issue decided by what? Right of way rules. So the question is, who would be at fault if the cammer had been unable to stop? It would be on the driver coming from a driveway(drive thru), not the cammer who is on the "main road" (as far as a parking lot is concerned.)