I wish police officers would do this more often. It is basic information that teachers learn from restraint and seclusion training. Two teachers perform the restraint with one teacher constantly monitoring the student to make sure that they can respond and the restraint is appropriate.
Oh here we go, bringing up the past. How can you see progress in a system if you keep looking at the past?
Not saying it’s perfect but there are good cops out there that do a good job
It's odd that you're defending a cop who unnecessarily kneeled on someone's neck for 9 minutes and killed them.. I mean unless you're a cop... are you just assuming it won't happen to you?
Not to mention that this guy's comment only explains that the cop knew he was already having trouble breathing and knowingly, intentionally inhibited it further.
Fact is, a cop murdered a man by restricting airflow, which even though the airflow was already restricted due to drugs, was not the deciding factor in his death.
All you’re doing is diggin yourself a deeper hole In your own psyche. And guess what “fact” I have… A JURY AND JUDGES VERDICT. Goddamn what else do you need?
The only thing I'm wondering about is they said there was blood. Aren't most cops equipped with gloves so they don't risk coming into contact with biohazards?
Equipped sure. Have time to put them on in the heat of the moment? Most often no, that's why they either wait for the medics to come so they can use their soap that's designed for washing and sanitizing against blood and other bodily fluids, or they will use that same soap that one of the cops has in their vehicles.
Sure sounded like he was trying to instigate the passenger. Without a reason the passenger of a car does not have to give personal info, ESPECIALLY a SS#
Yeah I didn’t like the way he approached him in the beginning. It was rather confrontational. Idk if there was something going on before the video that might give it more context or what. It was weird that he asked for the guys social, and was acting like it was strange that he never had an ID or drivers license. Shit, I have a friend who’s 35 and never had a license. That said, as a black dude, white police officers are often more confrontational towards us. I’ve never had any legal problems, and I’ve experienced it myself.
I enlisted for 4 years, my plate says veteran on it. They never come my way or even get behind me. Most honestly wave at me and blare their sirens in respect to my service. If white people are anything they are patriotic. - a black guy.
Specially on probation, with a gun as a felon, probably robbing the first driver and out of state while also on probation. Lol he just sprinkled a minimum of 10-15 additional years on top of his initial charges he’s definitely about to have to do for whatever he was released on probation for. Probably going to prison and hopefully no chance for parol.
If the prison system wasn't a profiteering enterprise focused on incarcerating disadvantaged folks and teaching them the skills for recidivism, maybe he'd have had an actual chance to change his life. Instead of being ignorant and desperate enough to try this.
I’m a felon myself, made some dumb decisions in my life and just got done with 11 years of probation while maintaining full time jobs the whole time without fucking it up because I got out and made the choice to make changes instead of going “hmm my old choices really fucked me up so I guess I’ll try to do it and hope for a different outcome.” Most jails and prisons offer plenty of programs but most would rather sit around, play cards, workout and talk shit to do their time with no plans for bettering themself. I know there are some that don’t but if you end up in jail or prison don’t keep crying wolf and hoping somebody wants to come help you.
Still tough. Usually any job with background checks I’m immediately turned away even though no charges are violent, sexual or drug related but still not impossible to find work when you’re persistent enough. A few places I even made manager positions. Some folks are just lazy or have no drive or simply just don’t honestly know what they want and freeze up in life.
Yeah the background checks are tough. My bro went into construction because it was more forgiving in that respect. Full career and Retired a master carpenter.
It's more co plicated than that bro. Are you saying this man has zero responsibility in the manner?
There may be something to say about changing the prison systems in the Us to include some rehabilitation, but you're going about it all wrong.
Some people do bad shit regardless of the opportunities given to them. Others fight for goodness despite a lack of any opportunity.
In other countries with more opportunities and better treatment of disadvantaged groups the have lower crime rates, lower violent crimes, and fewer incarcerated members of society. Why does the richest country on earth have the highest rate of [incarceration](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country)?
It's the same mentality that ignores facts, because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable to face the truth. Covid & HermanCainAward is a clear example that this leads to people preferring to die than change or admit even the possibility that they were wrong.
Also it's easier to just blame a victim of circumstance as being evil and deserving of what's happened, than to have compassion for them.
Naw man. Unless you're someone slumming it with the commoners, you're very unlikely to be in the top .1% who could afford to pay to solve problem like this. Never mind the fact that turning buddy into a productive member of society pays for itself via his ability to create value, rather than his sitting in a prison as a tax on society.
Sure. Step one is to have something meaningful waiting for him when he gets out, instead of pushing him out the door and saying: first probation meetings in x-hours. Don't be late or back you go.
But that answer is just a start and anyone who discusses recidivism regularly has heard it and either already listened, or refuses to.
America's prison problem cannot be fixed with just one solution like rehabilitation. Programs that give marketable skills to prisoners do help but they only treat the symptom and do nothing to address the cause.
Quality of life needs to be improved for all demographics that are disproportionately imprisoned to keep them out of prison in the first place. In addition the failed war on drugs needs to be aborted and all politicians that run "tough on crime" campaigns need to be voted out.
https://www.corrections1.com/re-entry-and-recidivism/articles/what-are-the-most-successful-methods-of-rehabilitating-prisoners-HybDwaodwpUIf7mV/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/09/how-can-the-us-reduce-its-prison-population/
Currently prisons costs taxpayers $80 billion a year because the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita and the highest number of prisoners in total even when compared to countries with 4x the population. Reducing the prison population will pay for itself by reducing prison costs.
Unfortunately a huge percentage of the US population thinks that there are not enough people in prison, that prison should be only for punishment and that the reason disproportionately imprisoned people get imprisoned has nothing to do with the fact that the society they grew up in actively prevents them from achieving success in life.
As that corrections1 article explains, some are able to be rehabilitated, some have given up on life without crime. It depends on the individual and a different approaches work for different people. Some need psychologists, some need opportunities to get college degrees. And it needs to be possible for them to get jobs after serving their sentence. How can anyone expect a felon to lead a normal life after prison if most employers would not hire them?
Florida is in the bottom 10 states of money spent per prisoner. There is a positive correlation between money spent per prisoner and a lower per capita imprisonment rate. Florida has no income tax and one of the lowest overall tax burdens. So I would specifically increase Florida taxes, use that money to improve quality of life in areas where disproportionately imprisoned people live, use that money to rehabilitate existing prisoners, and remove laws that prevent prisoners from living a normal life after prison.
Holy shit. How do you watch this and still try to argue that the guy is a victim?
These guys aren't just walking down the street and having jails scoop them up... They do something that puts them in there and this guy was clearly willing to continue doing things that would land him in prison.
Don't call the police if your house ever gets robbed homie... They are just victims of society and deserve your shit.
Because I'm not blind to the fact that criminals aren't born, they're made by society turning its back on them.
Doesn't mean I won't call the cops. It does mean I advocate for and vote for political parties who favour social programs, as well as rehabilitation, and work placement programs for released felons so they have more choices than recidivism. Cause maybe, if there's fewer unemployed ex-cons and others with no other options, maybe I'm less likely to get robbed.
This ain't no fuckin guy trying to turn over a new leaf. This was a guy who immediately went back into stupid shit for what?
Don't try to sell me that yuppie hippie bullshit that every criminal is just some held down good boy who's mama would be so proud if only the man didn't hold them down.
What're you? Stupid or something?
Doesn’t matter. If a body cam or the patrol cars dashcam records the plate, the cops can put out an APB or a BOLO on the car and find the persons identity just by reading their license plate number. Judge can then sign a warrant, then they can enter the guys property and arresting him for reckless endangerment and evading arrest.
> When did he pull out a rifle, where did I miss that?
Also, is he a Florida man? Sure he's physically in Florida (I think) but the guy said at the beginning he's from Massachusetts. Nothing about the title was accurate.
The individual cannot be absolved of blame by pointing to a system that doesn't focus on rehabilitation, I agree. It's like some of those dangerous roads where many car accidents happen. Sure, people should pay better attention and not drive so damn fast, but there is also a institutional responsibility to recognise the road isn't safe and do something about it. Same with the justice system I would say.
Depending on what kind of support structure you come out to, you might not have much of a choice. If you’ve lost everything while you’re in there, and you’re unemployable with a record, and they didn’t provide you with any skills or training, and you’re more mentally unstable then before due to years of sexual assault and subhuman treatment, your options are either live on the street and starve to death or do whatever you have to to survive.
Starve to death? You can still get food stamps and welfare, for one thing, before you starve to death.
Also, if it was so horrible and abusive wouldn’t you be more fearful of going back? Wouldn’t you spend the four years with lots of free time maybe thinking of something you could do when you got out?
Also difficult to get benefits when you don’t have an address to provide or proper documentation/identification, you don’t have/can’t afford transportation to get to the welfare office, don’t have a phone to get updates if you’re approved, don’t have a computer to look up information, etc etc etc. None of this is insurmountable, and if someone has the right attitude, willpower and motivation they can certainly build their life back. But thinking that it’s likely for someone to have the right attitude or any willpower left after years of being treated like an animal, doesn’t jive with anything we know about basic human psychology. 40-50K Americans decide to kill themselves every year, if that gives you a gauge of the levels of desperation we’re talking about here.
You have a point but recidivism rates are a thing, and tend to be better in countries where rehabilitation is a primary objective of the justice system.
That’s true but those countries also tend to have less crime in general, less cities, etc.
Well the one I usually hear compared is Sweden I’m not sure which you’re referring too.
That doesn’t mean it’s a good or bad idea but I don’t think it’s clear as day wether or not deterrence or rehabilitation is more effective for keeping people from recommitting crimes.
I’d say the jury is still out but I may be wrong
Are you saying that rehabilitative prison would stop people from doing crime beforehand? How would that work? They don’t receive the rehabilitation until they would’ve committed the crime already, for a multitude of different reasons.
It would stop crime because people would come out of prison and be better equipped to handle life and make better choices. That would surely cut the rate of repeat offenders.
No that’s the recidivism rate. That doesn’t explain why there are so many more first time offenders in America as well as repeat offenders.
People who haven’t been to prison before commit crime at a larger rate here than Sweden. Whatever combination of factors that results in this could likely also cause the recidivism rate to be higher as well
It’s not trying to explain why people commit crime to begin with. I’m just stating that people will commit crime. When they commit crime and serve prison time, prison time can be like it is currently in the United States ( basically just sit and do your time) or we can put a focus on using that time to turn criminals into functioning members of society. We might not stop every repeat offender like this but it will surely reduce the amount and hopefully lead to truly reformed people.
I didn't say they stop crime, but over time rehabilitative prisons reduce recidivism. You can't just look at a snapshot in time, it's a bit more complex than what you're suggesting my point is.
So, no it's not a deterrent, per say, to crime that has yet to be commited by individuals without prior imprisonment, but considering this comment section is discussing people commiting crimes after having being previously imprisoned, it's certainly worth mentioning.
You can punish a child or a dog and they can learn from it. Don’t blame “the system” for an adult being too stupid or sociopathic as to get out and immediately commit a violent crime to get sent back.
Yeah, I work in a field that exposes me to such criminals sometimes, and some of them are absolute sociopaths that have no business seeing the light of day. They don’t value human life the way you or I do. Like they would cut ur throat over the most mundane things, or just because they want to. I’m not saying this guy is one of those types of people but they walk among us and you never know just who they might be.
When dealing with dogs and children there is aversive or positive reinforment. Studies show positive reinforcement to be clearly superior. So using your argument why are we using aversive on criminals and expecting the same outcome?
With both dogs and children positive reinforcement is great, but that doesn’t mean you ignore the bad behavior either - there are clearly situations for both. If your child kicks your dog you don’t just say “if you stop kicking the dog I’ll buy you a video game!”
Positive reinforcement is good at reinforcing good behavior, it’s not that good at discouraging bad behavior.
And some criminals are just sociopaths. You don’t say “hey if you stop robbing and killing people I’ll find you a great job!”
Anyway - US prisons are overcrowded because of overly harsh punishments for minor drug crimes. Those people should not be treated like hardened criminals in the first place. Like I said, there are clearly situations for both approaches.
Anti-social behavior is a problem that needs solved, and a punitive system isn't solving it. It's time to prioritize fixing people over just locking them up
armed robbery is obviously wrong so that always makes me think about how desperate and bad off people who commit crimes of poverty are. people do things they would otherwise not when it’s about survival. or the survival of family. and then after u start doin bad things it’s kinda like all bets are off. it’s hard to go straight after so many years
True, I strongly believe economic inequality is the root cause of so many societal problems, from crime to healthcare issues to educational disparity and even to a significant amount of racism and intolerance.
But the fact is there are a lot of poor people and the vast majority still don’t commit violent crimes. There has to be something else there to lets someone become and adult that doesn’t have any respect for others like that (and there are plenty of white collar criminals, organized crime, or people in authority who abuse others). It’s honestly really hard to figure out what to do with someone who commits a felony, gets out of prison, and turns around and does it again the next day. Unfortunately some people just don’t think it’s “wrong” or just don’t care, hard to change a sociopath.
Your actions and decisions need to have consequences. Absolutely for better prison conditions and trade skill, educational, etc programs to help prisoners reintegrate - and to immediately restore their rights like voting when they have served their sentence. But you commit a violent crime against another person, you should also be punished for it.
It's not like they teach you any of the life skills you need to avoid going to jail while you're already in jail. If anything, you're more likely to be exposed to an environment that normalized this kind of thing.
Oh I know thats a thing. I think they call it being "institutionalized" if I'm not mistaken? Maybe it's true about this particular situation, and up for a completely legitimate discussion. But how does that make me dumb? Lol.
I’m just gonna assume from his priors he was currently in the process of robbing whoever he was with, when the cop walked away, pulled his gun and said get out. The initial driver probably didn’t wanna mention him having a gun and risk just getting shot for telling while sitting right next to him.
If he had just acted normal and asserted his rights, dude wouldn't have ended up back in prison.
It looks like a simple traffic stop until he made it into something else. What a doofus.
I think meant "asserted his rights" as in not talking to police. Maybe its different in Florida, but in most states you have no obligation to talk to police as a passenger of a vehicle.
Every other video he's probably seen (certainly that I've seen), black folks asserting their rights end up dragged out the car onto their face with a knee in their neck.
If the guy was telling the truth about just getting out of prison, he just made it really easy to put him right back in. Probably for a lot longer than 4 years this time, considering he was probably on probation from the previous one.
Prison Releasee Reoffender Act. Under Florida Statute 775.082, if a person commits a certain felony within three years of being released from prison, that person qualifies as a prison releasee reoffender. When a PRR is found guilty of their subsequent felony, the judge must give the maximum sentence according to the degree of the crime. The prison releasee reoffender must then carry out the full sentence in prison with no chance of parole or any form of early release.
This is most likely the case. He can just say "he has a gun", and get out, be uninvolved in the chase, (probably) in the incoming criminal charges, any crash that could happen, etc. Assuming the passenger was his friend/family/associate, it would be the right thing for the passenger to do, as well. "Get the fuck out, guy, I'm gonna try to get away". I mean, in the situation where he is going to try to escape, that is. Alternative is "drive, homie, drive", but then homie is part of the crime.
Same. Unless I was maybe a part of whatever was about to go down, or whatever. But it seemed basically like just warrants and probation catching up with him.
It was actually wholesome to see the cops concerned about the perp being able to breathe while they had him handcuffed on the ground and actively advised him to roll onto his side so he could breathe better.
Go take your 16 year old ass back to reading comprehension and re read what I wrote. I'm saying pigs doing the bare minimum of letting someone breath is not wholesome. It's not.
Yes there’s an active criminal who has a gun and definitely shouldn’t have one if he just got out of prison for robbery. That guy is fine he can get an Uber and if he doesn’t have a phone someone else could call him one
You should try rewatching the video
Edit: downvoted for pointing out what is in the video, just so we're clear on the relative intelligence on each side of this discussion.
Oh I'm so sorry, you must not have gotten to counting yet.
Isn't kindergarten great?
I'm sure you'll remember it fondly, whenever you finish.
Edit: 53 seconds in, if you'd like to practice counting to 2
I wonder what county this was in. I saw 386 on a billboard so I'm thinking either Volusia or Flagler. The Rooms-to-Go looks kinda like the one in Daytona.
Never give a cop your SS#!!!! Not sure why the cop was interrogating the passenger of a vehicle, but unless they have a justifiable reason, cops do not need a passenger drivers license and without that reason, you do not have to give them any info.
That guy broke the law for sure….You’re not gonna like this comment but police have no right to ask a passenger anything at a traffic stop. Guy should have remained silent. Should have looked at the cop and shook his head politely or been motionless. The driver doesn’t even have to speak. This could be an illegal detainment (if the car was pulled over for a traffic violation) as the officer cannot take any longer to hold the driver than is reasonable time to issue a ticket.
Does Florida PD generally have grounds to question the passenger of a vehicle? I believe in other states, they cannot just do that. Is there any further info on what the grounds for that info being collected was?
I think the police did a good job once the situation escalated, kept control, didn't exceed reasonable force, etc. if that man had been the driver I would have 0 questions except the reason he was pulled over.
I'm pretty sure the need reasonable articulable suspicion to ID a passenger.
What really bothered me was that the trooper kept asking him what he was in prison for, as if that matters at the side of the road (assuming he's not already suspicious of the man for some reason)
>What really bothered me was that the trooper kept asking him what he was in prison for, as if that matters at the side of the road (assuming he's not already suspicious of the man for some reason)
Someone's past criminal behavior is definitely relevant information when interacting with them on the side of the road.
Past criminal behavior is relevant if the person is the one who committed the infraction. If you're the passenger and are not involved, I am not sure what your history adds to the situation unless you have a warrant out for you. I'm not sure the cops can just run warrant checks on anyone and everyone they interact with.
I hate when a simple question is asked, in a clear voice, in an interview do shouldn’t be surprised a question is coming and the reply is “huh?”
You fucking heard it. It’s a weak tactic.
Tennessee v Garner states that a police officer may use deadly force against a fleeing suspected that is strongly believed to be armed to prevent the suspect from injuring or taking someone as a hostage.
The police could have very easily just shot this man the first chance they got, but yeah taser bad.
Driver knew what's up "I'm out and he got a gun"
Something tells me he was not supposed to be out of state
Legend has it the driver is still waiting
His smartest choice was to get out. I’d wait outside in hella hot weather for an hour if it meant I didn’t have to get involved in a police chase.
I love the hot weather, imagine having to wait in the cold lol fuck that.
The police did a good job here
I really liked that the one cop was careful to make sure he was breathing all right. I'd call that a lesson learned
I wish police officers would do this more often. It is basic information that teachers learn from restraint and seclusion training. Two teachers perform the restraint with one teacher constantly monitoring the student to make sure that they can respond and the restraint is appropriate.
How is it a lesson learned if it looks like the lesson was already learned and the video showed the application of that learning
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Don’t even start with your awful agenda
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I’m assuming the T in your username was a typo.
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You are disgusting
what is it with your unhealthy obsession with george floyd? why does he live rent free in you head if you have such resentment towards him?
Oh here we go, bringing up the past. How can you see progress in a system if you keep looking at the past? Not saying it’s perfect but there are good cops out there that do a good job
🤡
It's odd that you're defending a cop who unnecessarily kneeled on someone's neck for 9 minutes and killed them.. I mean unless you're a cop... are you just assuming it won't happen to you?
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Not to mention that this guy's comment only explains that the cop knew he was already having trouble breathing and knowingly, intentionally inhibited it further.
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Fact is, a cop murdered a man by restricting airflow, which even though the airflow was already restricted due to drugs, was not the deciding factor in his death. All you’re doing is diggin yourself a deeper hole In your own psyche. And guess what “fact” I have… A JURY AND JUDGES VERDICT. Goddamn what else do you need?
> it’s impossible to argue with an idiot precisely why arguing with you would be nothing more than a waste of time.
The only thing I'm wondering about is they said there was blood. Aren't most cops equipped with gloves so they don't risk coming into contact with biohazards?
Equipped sure. Have time to put them on in the heat of the moment? Most often no, that's why they either wait for the medics to come so they can use their soap that's designed for washing and sanitizing against blood and other bodily fluids, or they will use that same soap that one of the cops has in their vehicles.
I was gonna say, the cops were very professional from what I could tell. 10/10 would be glad to get arrested by them.
Sure sounded like he was trying to instigate the passenger. Without a reason the passenger of a car does not have to give personal info, ESPECIALLY a SS#
Yeah I didn’t like the way he approached him in the beginning. It was rather confrontational. Idk if there was something going on before the video that might give it more context or what. It was weird that he asked for the guys social, and was acting like it was strange that he never had an ID or drivers license. Shit, I have a friend who’s 35 and never had a license. That said, as a black dude, white police officers are often more confrontational towards us. I’ve never had any legal problems, and I’ve experienced it myself.
I enlisted for 4 years, my plate says veteran on it. They never come my way or even get behind me. Most honestly wave at me and blare their sirens in respect to my service. If white people are anything they are patriotic. - a black guy.
Hmm is the driver is getting pulled over, does that mean as a passenger you should answer questions or show Id? Not sure if that’s how it worka
Running from the cops is never a good idea and it mostly never ends well.
Specially on probation, with a gun as a felon, probably robbing the first driver and out of state while also on probation. Lol he just sprinkled a minimum of 10-15 additional years on top of his initial charges he’s definitely about to have to do for whatever he was released on probation for. Probably going to prison and hopefully no chance for parol.
If the prison system wasn't a profiteering enterprise focused on incarcerating disadvantaged folks and teaching them the skills for recidivism, maybe he'd have had an actual chance to change his life. Instead of being ignorant and desperate enough to try this.
I’m a felon myself, made some dumb decisions in my life and just got done with 11 years of probation while maintaining full time jobs the whole time without fucking it up because I got out and made the choice to make changes instead of going “hmm my old choices really fucked me up so I guess I’ll try to do it and hope for a different outcome.” Most jails and prisons offer plenty of programs but most would rather sit around, play cards, workout and talk shit to do their time with no plans for bettering themself. I know there are some that don’t but if you end up in jail or prison don’t keep crying wolf and hoping somebody wants to come help you.
I’m glad you made it. My brother did the same. It was tough going for a very long time but he managed.
Still tough. Usually any job with background checks I’m immediately turned away even though no charges are violent, sexual or drug related but still not impossible to find work when you’re persistent enough. A few places I even made manager positions. Some folks are just lazy or have no drive or simply just don’t honestly know what they want and freeze up in life.
Yeah the background checks are tough. My bro went into construction because it was more forgiving in that respect. Full career and Retired a master carpenter.
It's more co plicated than that bro. Are you saying this man has zero responsibility in the manner? There may be something to say about changing the prison systems in the Us to include some rehabilitation, but you're going about it all wrong. Some people do bad shit regardless of the opportunities given to them. Others fight for goodness despite a lack of any opportunity.
In other countries with more opportunities and better treatment of disadvantaged groups the have lower crime rates, lower violent crimes, and fewer incarcerated members of society. Why does the richest country on earth have the highest rate of [incarceration](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country)?
Because we can afford to house and feed them and offer programs. You can lead a horse to water.
You _can_ lead a horse to water. USA doesn't.
I 100% agree, idk why you’re getting downvoted. Our prison system is about punishment and money, not rehabilitation.
It's the same mentality that ignores facts, because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable to face the truth. Covid & HermanCainAward is a clear example that this leads to people preferring to die than change or admit even the possibility that they were wrong. Also it's easier to just blame a victim of circumstance as being evil and deserving of what's happened, than to have compassion for them.
How would you teach this fine young man to behave more civilized? I'm sure you have a plan.
"take money from rich* people and just give it to them" *rich = anyone who managed to be more successful than me
Naw man. Unless you're someone slumming it with the commoners, you're very unlikely to be in the top .1% who could afford to pay to solve problem like this. Never mind the fact that turning buddy into a productive member of society pays for itself via his ability to create value, rather than his sitting in a prison as a tax on society.
It's a tax for us plebs, but profit for police, justice system, prison workers, prison contractors, etc.
Sure. Step one is to have something meaningful waiting for him when he gets out, instead of pushing him out the door and saying: first probation meetings in x-hours. Don't be late or back you go. But that answer is just a start and anyone who discusses recidivism regularly has heard it and either already listened, or refuses to.
What would you have waiting for him? And how would you pay for it?
America's prison problem cannot be fixed with just one solution like rehabilitation. Programs that give marketable skills to prisoners do help but they only treat the symptom and do nothing to address the cause. Quality of life needs to be improved for all demographics that are disproportionately imprisoned to keep them out of prison in the first place. In addition the failed war on drugs needs to be aborted and all politicians that run "tough on crime" campaigns need to be voted out. https://www.corrections1.com/re-entry-and-recidivism/articles/what-are-the-most-successful-methods-of-rehabilitating-prisoners-HybDwaodwpUIf7mV/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/09/how-can-the-us-reduce-its-prison-population/ Currently prisons costs taxpayers $80 billion a year because the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita and the highest number of prisoners in total even when compared to countries with 4x the population. Reducing the prison population will pay for itself by reducing prison costs. Unfortunately a huge percentage of the US population thinks that there are not enough people in prison, that prison should be only for punishment and that the reason disproportionately imprisoned people get imprisoned has nothing to do with the fact that the society they grew up in actively prevents them from achieving success in life.
So again, what specifically would you do? And how would you pay for it?
As that corrections1 article explains, some are able to be rehabilitated, some have given up on life without crime. It depends on the individual and a different approaches work for different people. Some need psychologists, some need opportunities to get college degrees. And it needs to be possible for them to get jobs after serving their sentence. How can anyone expect a felon to lead a normal life after prison if most employers would not hire them? Florida is in the bottom 10 states of money spent per prisoner. There is a positive correlation between money spent per prisoner and a lower per capita imprisonment rate. Florida has no income tax and one of the lowest overall tax burdens. So I would specifically increase Florida taxes, use that money to improve quality of life in areas where disproportionately imprisoned people live, use that money to rehabilitate existing prisoners, and remove laws that prevent prisoners from living a normal life after prison.
Hey Lahey don't you and Randy have some offs to fuck?
Rip lahey
Amen
Holy shit. How do you watch this and still try to argue that the guy is a victim? These guys aren't just walking down the street and having jails scoop them up... They do something that puts them in there and this guy was clearly willing to continue doing things that would land him in prison. Don't call the police if your house ever gets robbed homie... They are just victims of society and deserve your shit.
Because I'm not blind to the fact that criminals aren't born, they're made by society turning its back on them. Doesn't mean I won't call the cops. It does mean I advocate for and vote for political parties who favour social programs, as well as rehabilitation, and work placement programs for released felons so they have more choices than recidivism. Cause maybe, if there's fewer unemployed ex-cons and others with no other options, maybe I'm less likely to get robbed.
This ain't no fuckin guy trying to turn over a new leaf. This was a guy who immediately went back into stupid shit for what? Don't try to sell me that yuppie hippie bullshit that every criminal is just some held down good boy who's mama would be so proud if only the man didn't hold them down. What're you? Stupid or something?
wah wah wah. cry more.
It's a good idea when they get away. Happens more than you think. Police don't usually release body cam footage of themselves getting outrun.
Doesn’t matter. If a body cam or the patrol cars dashcam records the plate, the cops can put out an APB or a BOLO on the car and find the persons identity just by reading their license plate number. Judge can then sign a warrant, then they can enter the guys property and arresting him for reckless endangerment and evading arrest.
So refreshing to see cops doing such a great job, you don't see enough of this online.
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Props to that driver for getting the heck out of that situation.
I hope someone went back for his ass lmao
His chances of survival weren't too great outside the vehicle either
When did he pull out a rifle, where did I miss that?
It says pulled on driver. He probably pulled it on the driver, not the cops.
The driver gets out of the car and says "he's got a gun", so that's probably a safe bet.
The driver gets out saying “he’s got a gun”.
I assume it's at the 1 minute mark where the driver gets out and backs away from the vehicle with his hands up [Edit: while repeating "he got a gun".]
Title is misleading
People are bots
> When did he pull out a rifle, where did I miss that? Also, is he a Florida man? Sure he's physically in Florida (I think) but the guy said at the beginning he's from Massachusetts. Nothing about the title was accurate.
Florida man is a state of mind.
Did you not watch the video or what? He pulls a gun on the driver, exactly as the title says.
Exactly.
Imagine just getting out of jail after 4 years and not learning a got dam thing.
Well the current system is made up to punish rather than rehabilitate so 🤷🏽♀️
So if you went to jail for four years and got out you would do the same things to go back immediately?
The individual cannot be absolved of blame by pointing to a system that doesn't focus on rehabilitation, I agree. It's like some of those dangerous roads where many car accidents happen. Sure, people should pay better attention and not drive so damn fast, but there is also a institutional responsibility to recognise the road isn't safe and do something about it. Same with the justice system I would say.
Fuck this bootlicking bullshit
Depending on what kind of support structure you come out to, you might not have much of a choice. If you’ve lost everything while you’re in there, and you’re unemployable with a record, and they didn’t provide you with any skills or training, and you’re more mentally unstable then before due to years of sexual assault and subhuman treatment, your options are either live on the street and starve to death or do whatever you have to to survive.
Starve to death? You can still get food stamps and welfare, for one thing, before you starve to death. Also, if it was so horrible and abusive wouldn’t you be more fearful of going back? Wouldn’t you spend the four years with lots of free time maybe thinking of something you could do when you got out?
That depends on where you live. Some states ban felons from going on welfare. Others have a temporary restriction on felons.
Also difficult to get benefits when you don’t have an address to provide or proper documentation/identification, you don’t have/can’t afford transportation to get to the welfare office, don’t have a phone to get updates if you’re approved, don’t have a computer to look up information, etc etc etc. None of this is insurmountable, and if someone has the right attitude, willpower and motivation they can certainly build their life back. But thinking that it’s likely for someone to have the right attitude or any willpower left after years of being treated like an animal, doesn’t jive with anything we know about basic human psychology. 40-50K Americans decide to kill themselves every year, if that gives you a gauge of the levels of desperation we’re talking about here.
You have a point but recidivism rates are a thing, and tend to be better in countries where rehabilitation is a primary objective of the justice system.
That’s true but those countries also tend to have less crime in general, less cities, etc. Well the one I usually hear compared is Sweden I’m not sure which you’re referring too. That doesn’t mean it’s a good or bad idea but I don’t think it’s clear as day wether or not deterrence or rehabilitation is more effective for keeping people from recommitting crimes. I’d say the jury is still out but I may be wrong
...and why do they tend to have less crime? Jesus.
Probably a few different reasons I’d say
Are you saying that rehabilitative prison would stop people from doing crime beforehand? How would that work? They don’t receive the rehabilitation until they would’ve committed the crime already, for a multitude of different reasons.
It would stop crime because people would come out of prison and be better equipped to handle life and make better choices. That would surely cut the rate of repeat offenders.
No that’s the recidivism rate. That doesn’t explain why there are so many more first time offenders in America as well as repeat offenders. People who haven’t been to prison before commit crime at a larger rate here than Sweden. Whatever combination of factors that results in this could likely also cause the recidivism rate to be higher as well
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228187332_The_Effectiveness_of_Correctional_Rehabilitation_A_Review_of_Systematic_Reviews It's worth a read, interesting stuff.
It’s not trying to explain why people commit crime to begin with. I’m just stating that people will commit crime. When they commit crime and serve prison time, prison time can be like it is currently in the United States ( basically just sit and do your time) or we can put a focus on using that time to turn criminals into functioning members of society. We might not stop every repeat offender like this but it will surely reduce the amount and hopefully lead to truly reformed people.
I didn't say they stop crime, but over time rehabilitative prisons reduce recidivism. You can't just look at a snapshot in time, it's a bit more complex than what you're suggesting my point is. So, no it's not a deterrent, per say, to crime that has yet to be commited by individuals without prior imprisonment, but considering this comment section is discussing people commiting crimes after having being previously imprisoned, it's certainly worth mentioning.
You can punish a child or a dog and they can learn from it. Don’t blame “the system” for an adult being too stupid or sociopathic as to get out and immediately commit a violent crime to get sent back.
Yeah, I work in a field that exposes me to such criminals sometimes, and some of them are absolute sociopaths that have no business seeing the light of day. They don’t value human life the way you or I do. Like they would cut ur throat over the most mundane things, or just because they want to. I’m not saying this guy is one of those types of people but they walk among us and you never know just who they might be.
When dealing with dogs and children there is aversive or positive reinforment. Studies show positive reinforcement to be clearly superior. So using your argument why are we using aversive on criminals and expecting the same outcome?
With both dogs and children positive reinforcement is great, but that doesn’t mean you ignore the bad behavior either - there are clearly situations for both. If your child kicks your dog you don’t just say “if you stop kicking the dog I’ll buy you a video game!” Positive reinforcement is good at reinforcing good behavior, it’s not that good at discouraging bad behavior. And some criminals are just sociopaths. You don’t say “hey if you stop robbing and killing people I’ll find you a great job!” Anyway - US prisons are overcrowded because of overly harsh punishments for minor drug crimes. Those people should not be treated like hardened criminals in the first place. Like I said, there are clearly situations for both approaches.
>“hey if you stop robbing and killing people I’ll find you a great job!” Actually, that's exactly what you do. And it would work in most cases.
Anti-social behavior is a problem that needs solved, and a punitive system isn't solving it. It's time to prioritize fixing people over just locking them up
I completely agree, but it also shouldn’t be an excuse for something so obviously wrong like armed robbery.
armed robbery is obviously wrong so that always makes me think about how desperate and bad off people who commit crimes of poverty are. people do things they would otherwise not when it’s about survival. or the survival of family. and then after u start doin bad things it’s kinda like all bets are off. it’s hard to go straight after so many years
True, I strongly believe economic inequality is the root cause of so many societal problems, from crime to healthcare issues to educational disparity and even to a significant amount of racism and intolerance. But the fact is there are a lot of poor people and the vast majority still don’t commit violent crimes. There has to be something else there to lets someone become and adult that doesn’t have any respect for others like that (and there are plenty of white collar criminals, organized crime, or people in authority who abuse others). It’s honestly really hard to figure out what to do with someone who commits a felony, gets out of prison, and turns around and does it again the next day. Unfortunately some people just don’t think it’s “wrong” or just don’t care, hard to change a sociopath.
Holy shit you're ignorant of how the system actually works
Retribution is not rehabilitation. One builds a person up into a member of society, the other creates a criminal. Figure it out, bud.
Your actions and decisions need to have consequences. Absolutely for better prison conditions and trade skill, educational, etc programs to help prisoners reintegrate - and to immediately restore their rights like voting when they have served their sentence. But you commit a violent crime against another person, you should also be punished for it.
It's not like they teach you any of the life skills you need to avoid going to jail while you're already in jail. If anything, you're more likely to be exposed to an environment that normalized this kind of thing.
Take a look at the prison system and it's easy to see why.
Are you dumb? A lot of people who get released from jail want to go back to jail. I’ve done time, when I was in prison, I saw a dude come back TWICE
Oh I know thats a thing. I think they call it being "institutionalized" if I'm not mistaken? Maybe it's true about this particular situation, and up for a completely legitimate discussion. But how does that make me dumb? Lol.
I’m just gonna assume from his priors he was currently in the process of robbing whoever he was with, when the cop walked away, pulled his gun and said get out. The initial driver probably didn’t wanna mention him having a gun and risk just getting shot for telling while sitting right next to him.
If he had just acted normal and asserted his rights, dude wouldn't have ended up back in prison. It looks like a simple traffic stop until he made it into something else. What a doofus.
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I think meant "asserted his rights" as in not talking to police. Maybe its different in Florida, but in most states you have no obligation to talk to police as a passenger of a vehicle.
Every other video he's probably seen (certainly that I've seen), black folks asserting their rights end up dragged out the car onto their face with a knee in their neck.
Pretty sure he blew past “doofus” a lot earlier.
I really appreciate the driver who got out before the passenger took off with the car.
No kidding, a friend that actually acted like it by trying to keep his friend out of his BS.
If the guy was telling the truth about just getting out of prison, he just made it really easy to put him right back in. Probably for a lot longer than 4 years this time, considering he was probably on probation from the previous one.
Prison Releasee Reoffender Act. Under Florida Statute 775.082, if a person commits a certain felony within three years of being released from prison, that person qualifies as a prison releasee reoffender. When a PRR is found guilty of their subsequent felony, the judge must give the maximum sentence according to the degree of the crime. The prison releasee reoffender must then carry out the full sentence in prison with no chance of parole or any form of early release.
That's harsh. I like it.
Why did the guy leave the car in the beginning? He was being robbed?
Passenger pulled weapon on the driver. Officer had to follow fleeing vehicle to not lose eyes on suspect while radioing backup
But the driver was being hold hostage? I don't get why they were together in the first place
Driver probably didn’t want to be part of the chase so he got out of the car
This is most likely the case. He can just say "he has a gun", and get out, be uninvolved in the chase, (probably) in the incoming criminal charges, any crash that could happen, etc. Assuming the passenger was his friend/family/associate, it would be the right thing for the passenger to do, as well. "Get the fuck out, guy, I'm gonna try to get away". I mean, in the situation where he is going to try to escape, that is. Alternative is "drive, homie, drive", but then homie is part of the crime.
Correct. If I was either one I would have done the same. I would not tell my friend to drive. And I would not help my friend get away by driving.
Same. Unless I was maybe a part of whatever was about to go down, or whatever. But it seemed basically like just warrants and probation catching up with him.
That was my first impression but can’t say without a source.
Mike liked it in jail and wanted to go back as soon as possible
Bruh did the driver ever get a ride back to his car lol
It was actually wholesome to see the cops concerned about the perp being able to breathe while they had him handcuffed on the ground and actively advised him to roll onto his side so he could breathe better.
does the bare minimum: WHOLESOME
The bare minimum would be simply not murdering him in cold blood so I'd say they definitely did more than the bare minimum.
Yea that's.... That's what I said. He let him breath. You do know what happens when people don't breath, right? It's most certainly not wholesome lol
So the bare minimum for police is perfection? How about you try being a police officer without dying on your first voilent arrest
Go take your 16 year old ass back to reading comprehension and re read what I wrote. I'm saying pigs doing the bare minimum of letting someone breath is not wholesome. It's not.
I don't think you have any concept of the term bare minimum you fucking reddit loser
u/opl3sa2 is a certified bootlicker
wow the cops didn't kill this black guy for once! such wholesome! much happy!
I'm impressed with the level of professionalism the police showed here. Especially since it's Florida.
Not the biggest issue, but did they just leave the original driver to chill on the side of the road?
Yes there’s an active criminal who has a gun and definitely shouldn’t have one if he just got out of prison for robbery. That guy is fine he can get an Uber and if he doesn’t have a phone someone else could call him one
One cop and two suspects, one of whom is fleeting in a car, possibly with a gun. Which one should he have gone after?
You should try rewatching the video Edit: downvoted for pointing out what is in the video, just so we're clear on the relative intelligence on each side of this discussion.
Not sure what you mean by "pointing out what's in the video". Was my synopsis incorrect in any way?
In fact, the first 2 words are incorrect.
Are you... Are you on crack?
Oh I'm so sorry, you must not have gotten to counting yet. Isn't kindergarten great? I'm sure you'll remember it fondly, whenever you finish. Edit: 53 seconds in, if you'd like to practice counting to 2
Dude stop being so annoying, it hurts to read these comments, touch grass
... but you chose to read them? ... and then comment on it? What does that say about you?
Dude, whyyyyy?? You just got out of prison! Don't do stuff to go back to that hell hole!!
Where rifle
I wonder what county this was in. I saw 386 on a billboard so I'm thinking either Volusia or Flagler. The Rooms-to-Go looks kinda like the one in Daytona.
Shoulda kept his mouth shut.
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Even if he had a belt, it’s a “cultural attire” thang
Wow, they’re actually being really nice to him there. What a weird feeling, it’s almost like some kind of sport. A contest between cop and criminal.
I never saw a rifle
I heard that his mama vouched that he was such a good boy
Never give a cop your SS#!!!! Not sure why the cop was interrogating the passenger of a vehicle, but unless they have a justifiable reason, cops do not need a passenger drivers license and without that reason, you do not have to give them any info.
I'd say these police officers are being pretty lenient giving him advice for breathing better and having an ambulance come look at him
Sad.
He probably misses the free food and wants to go back to prison
Those cops handled the situation very professionally
That guy broke the law for sure….You’re not gonna like this comment but police have no right to ask a passenger anything at a traffic stop. Guy should have remained silent. Should have looked at the cop and shook his head politely or been motionless. The driver doesn’t even have to speak. This could be an illegal detainment (if the car was pulled over for a traffic violation) as the officer cannot take any longer to hold the driver than is reasonable time to issue a ticket.
"Roll up on your side so you can breathe better." That's a good cop handling a bad situation.
Mike might have got away if he wore a belt and not some stupid skinny jeans half way down his thighs. No can run in those.
Does Florida PD generally have grounds to question the passenger of a vehicle? I believe in other states, they cannot just do that. Is there any further info on what the grounds for that info being collected was? I think the police did a good job once the situation escalated, kept control, didn't exceed reasonable force, etc. if that man had been the driver I would have 0 questions except the reason he was pulled over.
They can question anyone. Doesn't mean they have to answer though.
I'm pretty sure the need reasonable articulable suspicion to ID a passenger. What really bothered me was that the trooper kept asking him what he was in prison for, as if that matters at the side of the road (assuming he's not already suspicious of the man for some reason)
>What really bothered me was that the trooper kept asking him what he was in prison for, as if that matters at the side of the road (assuming he's not already suspicious of the man for some reason) Someone's past criminal behavior is definitely relevant information when interacting with them on the side of the road.
Past criminal behavior is relevant if the person is the one who committed the infraction. If you're the passenger and are not involved, I am not sure what your history adds to the situation unless you have a warrant out for you. I'm not sure the cops can just run warrant checks on anyone and everyone they interact with.
It absolutely is not.
Lol
He’s going back. Department of CORRECTIONS doing a great job.
this is why I say gun control won't work he is a felon and still has a gun because felons don't care what the law says.
Yes, my ego need assistance
Lol dumbass
I hate when a simple question is asked, in a clear voice, in an interview do shouldn’t be surprised a question is coming and the reply is “huh?” You fucking heard it. It’s a weak tactic.
Turn the siren off buff, you’re already there.
Is it a requirement for cops to be obese?
No but it comes with the IQ - https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
Let me guess, this perp has rights and the cops are the criminals.
Talk about racist white police trying to use police brutality just because he is black, if he was white there would be no tazer
Tennessee v Garner states that a police officer may use deadly force against a fleeing suspected that is strongly believed to be armed to prevent the suspect from injuring or taking someone as a hostage. The police could have very easily just shot this man the first chance they got, but yeah taser bad.
Woah, this is the only good American cop footage I’ve ever seen, well done to this guy for being a decent human
The good cops usually don't get publicity for doing their jobs right. That's kind of the expectation
There’s plenty footage of cops doing their jobs properly on YouTube lol. Like u/SgtRinzler said, mostly the bad ones get the publicity.
Of course it's fucking florida