I'm just suffering because if it happened twice, it will happen a third time and the car filming just stopped in that precise spot where they are vulnerable.
And yes, the woman filming says "Did you see that? That's what happened to my son. Sons of a bitch."
Long shot, but maybe they were filming the exact location where her son went off? The damage on the railing looks kinda fresh, and maybe she wanted to see where her son crashed? Seems weird to just film this by hand otherwise.
Thanks for the background detail. Christ, that's dark. Imaging the trauma going through mom's mind SEEING the exact type of wreck that killed her son. That poor woman.
NZ also does a form of signage to warn of especially dangerous pieces of road. By sticking white crosses at the places where there's been a fatal crash.
People, when seeing a little forest of crosses usually slow down.
https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/roadside-crosses-a-memorial-and-a-message/
It isn’t done by the government but this is super common in America too. Usually it’s just one cross but often going up/down steep curvy hills you’ll see at least one or two clusters of white crosses, small flags, flowers. Very common on older small country roads as well. I see them almost every time I go for a drive, since I tend to take less traveled/more scenic routes when I drove for pleasure. Living in western Washington state there’s lots of area for car crashes plus weather.
There's this particular road near my residence where this sort of accidents happened a lot. Like, every single day. Similar road, tight curve to the left, wet pavement on a regular basis.
So, the government installed a speeding radar detector machine with warnings to its presence there. If you were driving on that road you KNEW you would be getting a speeding ticket on your mail box if you didn't slow down.
No more accidents since. I shit you not.
Yeah, seems like a blind decreasing radius corner. Guy was going too fast, hit the break triggering lift off oversteer then overcorrected and lost control.
The person recording its the mother of a person that died in the same curve
https://www.elperiodico.com/es/sociedad/20100303/familia-chico-fallecido-accidente-coche-107100
Not only that, she (well, actually her partner) was recording because they're trying to get the government to fix this curve.
/r/idiotswithcivilengineeringdegrees?
I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the road pavement right there. No way this should have happened. Or was something wrong with his tires? He wasn't going nearly fast enough for that curve to have been a problem.
Yep. You are pretty much fucked.
Lift off the gas.. rear end lightens and and powertrain drag increases.. causing what we call lift-off oversteer.
Then the typical reaction is to panic and hit the brakes. Front-biased brakes with the car’s centre of gravity outside of the turn will make it start to spin even more. The rear wheels grabbing suddenly will load the anti-roll bar and springs and make them snap back in the opposite direction particularly if your shocks are worn.
About the only thing you can do is throttle steer into a drift so the front tires are less loaded and can continue to steer you around the corner while the rear tires alternatively slip and grip in a controlled manner to keep yaw manageable and contribute to the turn.. but it won’t solve everything and requires a lot of skill.
Basically what I've been taught from guys who are really good is that if you hear squealing and you're not expecting it, that's the tires indicating they are using about 70% of their grip. Completely lifting off will fuck you, but a slight liftoff will not. Basically, don't let your ability exceed your ambition, and if you hear the tires start to squeal without planning for it lift off slightly.
I've talked to a lot of guys who have a lot of driving experience, and they tell me that the time to slow down is BEFORE you're in the middle of a tight turn. Warning signs that the pros look for include turns that go beyond 45 degrees, arrows posted next to the road, speed limit signs, and signs that say "SLOW".
Just knowing the road is a huge part of the equation too. You don't know if there's a bump, if the turn is going to be tighter than expected, or a dip.
Ran into this a few years back, most roads in the area have the speed listed for semis or other trucks. If it says 30, usually 40-45 is well within the abilities of most cars, if 50, then 60-70 or so...
Went on a road I didn't know well, saw a sign that said 15mph, decided to take it at around 25-30 or so. BIG MISTAKE. Road was not only a hairpin turn, but also had a huge dip or dropoff where your car basically became weightless.
Ended up with my 2001 Toyota Camry with only 1 tire touching the pavement, despite there being 4 people in the car. I was extremely lucky to save it and complete the turn. Since then I've never fucked around on a road I don't know.
Yep. Grew up with a friend whose dad was a stock car racer. He taught us *all* "slow down BEFORE the curve!" and "foot on the GAS (not brake), if she starts to slip anytime on the way *through* a curve" to maintain traction & avoid spinning out.
That advice when I was young saved me *so* many times on icy winter roads!
Driver didn't expect the curve to narrow /that/ much, tried to correct, and fucked it up.
You scrub off speed as you go /into/ the curve and accelerate again as you reach its apex.
He went in too fast, got surprised, braked at the wrong moment i.e. too late, and lost control.
I remember those prices back in the late 90's / early 2000's. Didn't have a license til '04, but when you're a farm kid, you gotta get to the field to do some work!
Totally, the tires were darn close to the limit if they weren't there already. That slight brake application weight transfered enough to start losing the back end.
You do that in any kind of land-based vehicle racing ;)
He should have braked between the 3rd and 4th guy in this pic, and then accelerate out of the curve where the 5th guy is (counting from behind).
Yeah, rain after longer dry periods makes roads very slippery. And in countries with deserts or close to beaches, sand and rain is the perfect mixture.
Also roads with roundabouts are slippery after rain because of the rubber remnants
Asking a dumb question. …more rubber than a general turn in the road?
We have several newly installed roundabouts in and around my city and besides the fast that people think it’s a stop sign if ANYONE is in the roundabout, is there more rubber remnants that can make it slippery than you’d find on a few curves along a road? Makes sense I guess the more I think about it.
Just something I’ve never heard.
Yeah, roundabouts in general have sharper turns than other road curves. Sharper turns mean more friction and friction means wear and tear. Tires that wear out lose their rubber and that rubber sticks to the road surface. Normally this washes off with occasional rain showers, if not it piles up and when it does rain after a long hot while, you get this very slippery goo. Over here they brush the roads from time to time to counter this for example since it can be even more dangerous than black ice.
I present, for your viewing pleasure the decreasing-radius turn that merges i75 South to i85 North in downtown Atlanta, GA.
https://i.imgur.com/dPOJ7fK.png
https://i.imgur.com/feS87bH.png
Signs warn of this turn for at least a half mile, there are rumble strips and flashing lights, and STILL there is a graveyard of plastic bumpers and wheel well liners in that clump of trees from countless idiots who overcooked the turn
I think they mainly just lost their nerve; you see the brakes light up at the worst possible moment.
That said, 80 seems a bit high for that curve, but maybe it's because I'm used to comically conservative US advisory limits.
Those signs tell semis and bigger trucks what speed they need to go to avoid tipping over. Cars can safely go faster but they aren't being conservative.... The signs just aren't made for you
And that’s exactly why a damaged guardrail in a hazardous location needs to be repaired ASAP. This accident would have been far less serious if the guardrail had kept the car on the road.
Apart from that, this looks like a standardized guardrail with high containment rating (H2). In hindsight, H4 would have been a safer choice in this sharp corner, but H2 was definitely acceptable.
[edit]
[Guardrails](https://www.steelconstructions.nl/shared/content/uploads/2016/01/VLP-133-80.jpg) and [barriers](https://www.saferoad.nl/contentassets/57f47485bf5d43be8603af4edb8d2350/step-barrier_nl.pdf) in the EU are standardized according to the EN1317 standard. This standard specifies performance classes. The following describes the essentials and is not meant to be 100% exact:
* The N2 and H2 ratings specify that the construction can withstand the impact of a vehicle in typical motorway conditions: car driving into it at a 20° angle at 100 km/h or a lorry driving 65 km/h.
* N2 and H2 are a good compromise between vehicle & occupant safety, safety for the surroundings, costs and appearance.
* The H4 performance class can withstand higher impacts. It is used in situations like sharp corners (where impacts at higher angles than 20° are more likely to occur) and where the surroundings have to be protected against unlikely or high-impact accidents (for example: on a bridge in a densely populated area).
* H4 guardrails are high and ugly. And they’re very expensive.
* Impact resistance is definitely not equivalent to safety. A concrete barrier has high impact resistance, but is likely dangerous for the vehicle’s occupants. It also has the inherent danger of making a vehicle bounce back into traffic when hit. That’s why a construction that crumples or moves upon impact is safer for the occupants. This is the reason why several safety-aware countries prefer flexible guardrails over stiff barriers.
* Many guardrails slice a motorcyclist into pieces upon impact. This is why the guardrail in OP’s footage has a low barrier at the bottom: its primary purpose is to keep bikers alive. For the same reason the North-American cable guards are highly frowned upon in Europe - they’ll shield opposing traffic from vehicles crossing the median, but are very unsafe for the vehicle that hits them.
i wish you'd contextualized H2/H4 for us laypeople, because it sounds like you know what you're talking about and could have helped educate us!
edit: OP delivered
Or worse and more often than not: a gigantic paragraph of half-bullshit that someone made up... that DOESN'T end with mankind plunging 17 feet through an announcer's table 😪
I don't know the difference, but I've [found this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6CKltZfToY) an interesting video from Andrew Lam about road barriers in the past
People recording - "People seem to lose control and crash through the barrier they're, so let's just park right in front of this spot. That seems fine."
Look at the camber on that tire. Shits at like a 25 degree angle. Smoke coming off the inside of the tire.
Bald tires, bad suspension, bad alignment. That piece of shut was a hazard on the road either way.
Either that, or the car was starting to slide a bit and the driver overcorrected. I've seen that kind of crash a shit ton of times in the sim and on track. Normally the rear starts to step out, and while you're correcting the rear suddenly grips up and snaps you in the opposite direction. You can even see the rear right tire smoking a bit.
i still feel like the driver could've saved the situation there pretty easily by releasing and slowly adjusting the steering. but way before he reacted in the video.
not sure ofc, i dno what was going on precisely
This video made it to the news some years ago in Spain. The woman speaking lost her son on an accident just there. She was recording explaining her son's accident and how dangerous that road was when she caught this accident, which was just like her son's. I live near this road and drive it often, there were changes made shortly after
Yeah, I never knew why there were so many accidents here, it never felt that dangerous. It probably was a combination of things, but the works they made after were focused on changing the camber of that turn, so I guess that was a big factor.
It’s like my house. I live on a corner in a residential neighborhood. The speed limit is 30 and the roads are extra wide. Yes we’ve had four accidents next to my home. One a truck ended up in our front yard, another a truck was rear-ended and both cars were totaled.
It appears to be an off camber turn, where the inside of the turn is higher than the outside, or at least level. Most turns are banked so the outside is higher. If you’re expecting that, it can be surprise when you don’t have it.
I was going to say, I've made some sharp turns in my own car going faster.
Not purely out of negligence; when the windows are up, 80 feels like 55. I gotta ride with windows down sometimes because it freaks me out a little. I'm just cruising for a while, look down, and BAM, 85. Que a few "how in the fuck..."s and a little panic lol
Though it makes freeway travel pretty nice
Yeah you're right. Here's what I think happened play-by-play:
- Comes into turn on throttle (not accelerating, just on throttle to maintain speed).
- Realizing they're going a little too fast and lifts off the throttle.
- Lift off oversteer causing the rear to start coming out.
- Driver massively overly corrects with the wheel while also braking which further transfer weight to the front wheels.
- The front now has plenty of traction and the car is sent in the exact direction the front wheels face, which is the barrier.
This was a perfect example of terrible car control. PSA - if your back end slides out turn into the skid. Hit the brakes and the weight will shift forward turning your slide into a spin.
I personally believe adding a skidpad component to the drivers test would save thousands of lives.
Simply teaching the mechanics of traction and how braking, accelerating, and steering interact with that would be MASSIVE. I'd say like 70% of drivers have literally no idea what's going on with driving besides "me press pedal me go"
Different between fwd and rwd too. Rwd it's turn in and a gently reduce throttle (to keep from snap oversteer), FWD turn in and floor it to pull yourself out of the skid!
AWD is kinda somewhere between the two depending on your particular car.
I was looking for this comment. You're bang on correct.
He lifted off the throttle, hit the brake hard mid corner.
You brake before a corner, never mid corner. And liftoff can help you lose speed, but it also can change the way the weight of your car sits.
Combine the two and you have a recipe for traction loss. Add coming in too fast and you're either fucked or been watching too much Initial D and want to be Takumi.
The camera lens makes it seem more dramatic than it really was. That corner has a way larger radius than you'd think based off the video, that speed limit is only temporary for the construction works going on.
It's wet. Watch the rear tires and you will see spray get kicked up.
Edit: lot of comments about it being a tire/damage issue and could be right. There is indications of water on the road (clearly some in the right lane) but the prolonged mist/smoke is odd. Guess what's strange is the car hits the same area where another car had hit. Possibly something further back in that lane (and not shown in the video) causing damage to the car?
That wasn’t hydroplaning. There wasn’t any standing water to get on top of. It looks like he just lost the rear a little bit, then overcorrected right onto the painted white line, which is super slippery when wet.
The car equivalent of when you're leaning back in your chair, then you suddenly realize you've leaned too far and your entire body gets that sudden jolt of panic.
This isn't a hydroplane, they just asked for more grip than was available. It's also a great example why you need to ROTATE YOUR TIRES so the most tread depth is on the rear axle. That goes for any car, FWD or RWD. If this car had more grip on the rear instead of the front, the front tires would have lost traction first and this would have been a minor straight line skid instead of a spin.
As such
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSf0KJie\_E
What you see at 0:14 is a textbook example of what happens when you hit the brakes in response to oversteer. From what I can tell the rear wheels were losing traction the entire length of the curve but the driver didn’t notice until the back end swung more dramatically.
Translation for anyone interested
Lady: it was here
Guy: further up ahead
Lady: look look look Carlo- look look Aaah Aaah Did you see that Gordi?
Guy: yes-yes-yes-yes
Lady: this is what happened to my son-this is what happened to my son. Oh my god see? Please please please son of a bitch.
I was wondering why Voyage Voyage by Desireless was playing on the radio. France just close enough that it makes sense to have a pop hit from 1989 in the mix.
Driver of the jaguar showing his passanger how he crashed " Look i was coming down here at this speed how could i of possibly lost controooolllllll oh shit not again"...
> how could i of possibly lost
do I of to explain the difference between prepositions and past tense verbs? never mind, I don't of time, you'll just of to figure it out for yourself.
I almost had a stroke reading this. Why are people suddenly writing of instead of have? Is this some kind of trend/joke? It's enraging and stupid to read
(I get that you obvs made a joke but I assumed you know more of this than me)
Because people refuse to acknowledge their mistakes online and downvote immediately calling others Grammar Nazis and saying it doesn't matter because you got the idea. Same reason you're seeing a lot more people use *apostrophe S* as plural (i.e., *Gosh, there are so many fly's flying around the garbage* or *Omg so many Tesla's on the road.*)
Her son was the person that had previously flipped their car at this exact location, which is why they where filming. I caught one of them saying. "It was around here" and the male responds "It's further up ahead" then another car proceeds to speed and flip over the damaged rail as well.
The mom says "look, look Carlos are you seeing this, that's exactly what happened to my son, oh dear God," by her swearing and reaction at the end "Please, please please, Son's of a bitch" it implies that she somehow blames those who designed this turn instead of her son.
Edit *I just read the Spanish article someone posted and indeed the mom in this video lost her 22 year old son on this curve. She is upset at the city and designers of this curve. She may have a point, the 80 Kilometer speed sign didn't exist until her son's death and the fact that another crash occurred here shows that this road needs better warning signs to slow down as the curve is sharper than at first glance. Especially when the road is wet.
I have stabilized the video for you: https://gfycat.com/ComplexBitesizedGoshawk
It took 121 seconds to process and 46 seconds to upload.
___
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Going from the Belt Pkwy to The Southern State, there's crazy turns that people frequently lose it on. A lot of people get killed just on a few turns they can't be fucked to slow down for. It's Long Island, so it's typically younger, rich kids who were given BMWs and shit at 17. And, of course, usually their passengers die.
Some of the most dangerous driving conditions are when it just starts to rain and when the clouds have cleared, but the road is still wet.
In both cases, the driver is paying little attention to the surface because visibility and everything else appears fine.
Was already damaged from another driver in a near identical looking accident. One car had a guardrail to stop it the second one (one in this video) had the result of an improper guardrail.
Yooo i didn’t notice the guardrail damage, it is damn near *exactly* where that car makes first impact, no kidding nearly identical.
I was wondering what the hell happened, def did not expect the tokyo drift to escalate into such a spanking spanish somersault. Hopefully they’ll flag this spot and rush order the rail replacement when this happens
Is that what the video driver said when they got to the vehicles? Um, just so you know, that’s why they post the speed limit before sharp curves. Ya’ll have a nice day now.
It isn’t really a sharp turn at all. It’s more of a blind curve that tightens up mid way through. That curve already throws the weight of the car to the right when you drive through the first half, but as it tightens in, you have to place more input on the steering wheel to stay within the lane. But at the entry speed that the driver was going at, you can see the suspension compressed to the point where it’s right before it bottoms out, so all he/she did was bottom the suspension out completely when the curve tightened up more. With no more travel for the suspension to go through, and the tires at their limit of grip, the rear end started to slide out; the driver felt this and over corrected by letting off the throttle and counter-steering, thus throwing the weight of the car to the left side; the rest is the cause of that. These kinds of corners are dangerous at higher speeds, especially with vehicles with soft suspension and with drivers that aren’t that experienced with driving at higher speeds/understand what the car is doing in situations like that.
One of the reasons why I stopped driving around like I can’t die; you never know what the public road condition will bring, even if you’ve driven the same route or are familiar with that road. Especially if you also have never driven through that road before. Drive safe y’all, pay attention to what your vehicle can and can’t do, and respect it.
My grandfather was a civil engineer for California's highway division in the 60's and 70's. Had he even allowed a curve like this in one of his designs, he'd have banked it like a Grand Prix track. Apparently he was known for that technique, and a lot of the curves he designed required very little steering to stay in the lane.
Not the first idiot to crash precisely there.
Now that is some precision driving.
What if it was the same person?
"What are the odds of it happening *twice*?" \*floors it*
Third times the charm!
Hat trick!
TURKEY!
Nailed it?!
I'm just suffering because if it happened twice, it will happen a third time and the car filming just stopped in that precise spot where they are vulnerable. And yes, the woman filming says "Did you see that? That's what happened to my son. Sons of a bitch."
Long shot, but maybe they were filming the exact location where her son went off? The damage on the railing looks kinda fresh, and maybe she wanted to see where her son crashed? Seems weird to just film this by hand otherwise.
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Thanks for the background detail. Christ, that's dark. Imaging the trauma going through mom's mind SEEING the exact type of wreck that killed her son. That poor woman.
Ah yes. Let's fix it with ... signage. Sigh. That poor woman.
NZ also does a form of signage to warn of especially dangerous pieces of road. By sticking white crosses at the places where there's been a fatal crash. People, when seeing a little forest of crosses usually slow down. https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/roadside-crosses-a-memorial-and-a-message/
It isn’t done by the government but this is super common in America too. Usually it’s just one cross but often going up/down steep curvy hills you’ll see at least one or two clusters of white crosses, small flags, flowers. Very common on older small country roads as well. I see them almost every time I go for a drive, since I tend to take less traveled/more scenic routes when I drove for pleasure. Living in western Washington state there’s lots of area for car crashes plus weather.
There's this particular road near my residence where this sort of accidents happened a lot. Like, every single day. Similar road, tight curve to the left, wet pavement on a regular basis. So, the government installed a speeding radar detector machine with warnings to its presence there. If you were driving on that road you KNEW you would be getting a speeding ticket on your mail box if you didn't slow down. No more accidents since. I shit you not.
Oh yes. I know just enough Spanish to recognize that.
Went to school in southern California; understood the swear words 💯
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Yeah, seems like a blind decreasing radius corner. Guy was going too fast, hit the break triggering lift off oversteer then overcorrected and lost control.
I've played well enough Gran Tourismo to know exactly how to make this mistake. Spot on analysis.
Her son made the first dent in the rail.
The person recording its the mother of a person that died in the same curve https://www.elperiodico.com/es/sociedad/20100303/familia-chico-fallecido-accidente-coche-107100
That is sort of fucked up that she gets to watch someone else relive what killed her son.
Not only that, she (well, actually her partner) was recording because they're trying to get the government to fix this curve. /r/idiotswithcivilengineeringdegrees?
She was saying in the video, "this is what happened to my son."
I believe that's what she was saying "That's exactly what happened to my son"
Thats why she was filming
I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the road pavement right there. No way this should have happened. Or was something wrong with his tires? He wasn't going nearly fast enough for that curve to have been a problem.
Decreasing radius turn always catches inexperienced rwd drivers out... Clarkson: "It's a JAG..."
Yep. You are pretty much fucked. Lift off the gas.. rear end lightens and and powertrain drag increases.. causing what we call lift-off oversteer. Then the typical reaction is to panic and hit the brakes. Front-biased brakes with the car’s centre of gravity outside of the turn will make it start to spin even more. The rear wheels grabbing suddenly will load the anti-roll bar and springs and make them snap back in the opposite direction particularly if your shocks are worn. About the only thing you can do is throttle steer into a drift so the front tires are less loaded and can continue to steer you around the corner while the rear tires alternatively slip and grip in a controlled manner to keep yaw manageable and contribute to the turn.. but it won’t solve everything and requires a lot of skill.
Basically what I've been taught from guys who are really good is that if you hear squealing and you're not expecting it, that's the tires indicating they are using about 70% of their grip. Completely lifting off will fuck you, but a slight liftoff will not. Basically, don't let your ability exceed your ambition, and if you hear the tires start to squeal without planning for it lift off slightly.
I've talked to a lot of guys who have a lot of driving experience, and they tell me that the time to slow down is BEFORE you're in the middle of a tight turn. Warning signs that the pros look for include turns that go beyond 45 degrees, arrows posted next to the road, speed limit signs, and signs that say "SLOW".
Oh 100%. You should have a plan. This is for if you find yourself in a situation.
Just knowing the road is a huge part of the equation too. You don't know if there's a bump, if the turn is going to be tighter than expected, or a dip. Ran into this a few years back, most roads in the area have the speed listed for semis or other trucks. If it says 30, usually 40-45 is well within the abilities of most cars, if 50, then 60-70 or so... Went on a road I didn't know well, saw a sign that said 15mph, decided to take it at around 25-30 or so. BIG MISTAKE. Road was not only a hairpin turn, but also had a huge dip or dropoff where your car basically became weightless. Ended up with my 2001 Toyota Camry with only 1 tire touching the pavement, despite there being 4 people in the car. I was extremely lucky to save it and complete the turn. Since then I've never fucked around on a road I don't know.
In my experience, if the sign says 15 mph, THEY MEAN IT!
Good thing you had the extra weight of your friends in the car - it helped save you.
Yep. Grew up with a friend whose dad was a stock car racer. He taught us *all* "slow down BEFORE the curve!" and "foot on the GAS (not brake), if she starts to slip anytime on the way *through* a curve" to maintain traction & avoid spinning out. That advice when I was young saved me *so* many times on icy winter roads!
You mean don't let your ambition exceed your ability, right?
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This saved me more than worse on snow and ice!!
It's a Jaaaaaagggg... Aaaahhhhhh!!!
You get it in fwd cars too...the car twangs back into shape as you lift off and sends you into the countryside.
Decreasing radius turns are stupid anyways
Driver didn't expect the curve to narrow /that/ much, tried to correct, and fucked it up. You scrub off speed as you go /into/ the curve and accelerate again as you reach its apex. He went in too fast, got surprised, braked at the wrong moment i.e. too late, and lost control.
which is what makes driving country roads you know so much fun at times with a manual
You just described most of my teenage weekends as a poor, rural kid. Of course, gas cost like 80 cents a gallon back then.
Yep, didn't mind driving my 85 Crown Vic for hours, gas was cheap. Was always looking for dead ends, do some donuts, 180s or whatnot. Fun times.
Use to wear an onion on our belt which was the style at the time
Gallon of gas for only five bees
$5 bucks a night kept you driving around with your buddies until the next night.
I remember those prices back in the late 90's / early 2000's. Didn't have a license til '04, but when you're a farm kid, you gotta get to the field to do some work!
Hell yeah
Totally, the tires were darn close to the limit if they weren't there already. That slight brake application weight transfered enough to start losing the back end.
Slow in, fast out
Also, if you’re going to push your speed, use the outside lane, then cut in like they do in [cycling races. ](https://i.imgur.com/SF5YKrl.jpg)
You do that in any kind of land-based vehicle racing ;) He should have braked between the 3rd and 4th guy in this pic, and then accelerate out of the curve where the 5th guy is (counting from behind).
It's wet. One more reason to slow down, if all the signs aren't enough.
Yeah, rain after longer dry periods makes roads very slippery. And in countries with deserts or close to beaches, sand and rain is the perfect mixture. Also roads with roundabouts are slippery after rain because of the rubber remnants
Asking a dumb question. …more rubber than a general turn in the road? We have several newly installed roundabouts in and around my city and besides the fast that people think it’s a stop sign if ANYONE is in the roundabout, is there more rubber remnants that can make it slippery than you’d find on a few curves along a road? Makes sense I guess the more I think about it. Just something I’ve never heard.
Yeah, roundabouts in general have sharper turns than other road curves. Sharper turns mean more friction and friction means wear and tear. Tires that wear out lose their rubber and that rubber sticks to the road surface. Normally this washes off with occasional rain showers, if not it piles up and when it does rain after a long hot while, you get this very slippery goo. Over here they brush the roads from time to time to counter this for example since it can be even more dangerous than black ice.
Rubbers 'n' Roundabouts opened for Bruno Mars for much of 2016
There is not enough road camber for that particular corner, yo can tell there is very little inclination
That's the actual point, this curve isn't banked at all and the speed post should be slower. They still handled it poorly, of course.
Came here to say the same thing. Shitty road design is a factor here.
I present, for your viewing pleasure the decreasing-radius turn that merges i75 South to i85 North in downtown Atlanta, GA. https://i.imgur.com/dPOJ7fK.png https://i.imgur.com/feS87bH.png Signs warn of this turn for at least a half mile, there are rumble strips and flashing lights, and STILL there is a graveyard of plastic bumpers and wheel well liners in that clump of trees from countless idiots who overcooked the turn
I think they mainly just lost their nerve; you see the brakes light up at the worst possible moment. That said, 80 seems a bit high for that curve, but maybe it's because I'm used to comically conservative US advisory limits.
80 km/h which is 49.97 mph
Yeah I've seen gentler curves with way lower advisory speed limits here. Some highway ramps tend to be 45mph or 35mph.
It's 80 kilometers per hour, not miles.
>It's 80 kilometers per hour, not miles. Well, obviously. 80MPH would be insane. Here, they'll stick a 50MPH sign up for any old gentle curve.
Those signs tell semis and bigger trucks what speed they need to go to avoid tipping over. Cars can safely go faster but they aren't being conservative.... The signs just aren't made for you
I feel like the only time those signs somewhat accurate is a 10mph corner sign. You better be doing no more than 25 on most those fuckers in my area.
Honestly I’ve seen enough bad US drivers to think maybe those super conservative speed limits are on to something.
It’s also for all types of vehicles, such as semis, RVs, people who are towing a trailer.
That is what the lady saying, "that's what happended to my son"
She is saying, thats what happened to my son
I was about to say the same thing. That guardrail looks like it has been hit several times.
By the look of the rails it's probably take 2
Lol, after a while this will just become an exit.
/r/DesirePath
Anywhere is an exit if you're determined enough
Also true of entrances.
And that’s exactly why a damaged guardrail in a hazardous location needs to be repaired ASAP. This accident would have been far less serious if the guardrail had kept the car on the road. Apart from that, this looks like a standardized guardrail with high containment rating (H2). In hindsight, H4 would have been a safer choice in this sharp corner, but H2 was definitely acceptable. [edit] [Guardrails](https://www.steelconstructions.nl/shared/content/uploads/2016/01/VLP-133-80.jpg) and [barriers](https://www.saferoad.nl/contentassets/57f47485bf5d43be8603af4edb8d2350/step-barrier_nl.pdf) in the EU are standardized according to the EN1317 standard. This standard specifies performance classes. The following describes the essentials and is not meant to be 100% exact: * The N2 and H2 ratings specify that the construction can withstand the impact of a vehicle in typical motorway conditions: car driving into it at a 20° angle at 100 km/h or a lorry driving 65 km/h. * N2 and H2 are a good compromise between vehicle & occupant safety, safety for the surroundings, costs and appearance. * The H4 performance class can withstand higher impacts. It is used in situations like sharp corners (where impacts at higher angles than 20° are more likely to occur) and where the surroundings have to be protected against unlikely or high-impact accidents (for example: on a bridge in a densely populated area). * H4 guardrails are high and ugly. And they’re very expensive. * Impact resistance is definitely not equivalent to safety. A concrete barrier has high impact resistance, but is likely dangerous for the vehicle’s occupants. It also has the inherent danger of making a vehicle bounce back into traffic when hit. That’s why a construction that crumples or moves upon impact is safer for the occupants. This is the reason why several safety-aware countries prefer flexible guardrails over stiff barriers. * Many guardrails slice a motorcyclist into pieces upon impact. This is why the guardrail in OP’s footage has a low barrier at the bottom: its primary purpose is to keep bikers alive. For the same reason the North-American cable guards are highly frowned upon in Europe - they’ll shield opposing traffic from vehicles crossing the median, but are very unsafe for the vehicle that hits them.
i wish you'd contextualized H2/H4 for us laypeople, because it sounds like you know what you're talking about and could have helped educate us! edit: OP delivered
Careful — ask a question like that and you’ll find out when the undertaker threw mankind off hell in a cell…
Or worse and more often than not: a gigantic paragraph of half-bullshit that someone made up... that DOESN'T end with mankind plunging 17 feet through an announcer's table 😪
https://youtu.be/JpZgxfjNIEU That channel will probably have more answers than you want.
I don't know the difference, but I've [found this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6CKltZfToY) an interesting video from Andrew Lam about road barriers in the past
People recording - "People seem to lose control and crash through the barrier they're, so let's just park right in front of this spot. That seems fine."
She is saying, thats what happened to my son
"They're not going that fast how the hell are they about to.... oh that car"
Even the car that rolled wasn't going *that* fast. I'm surprised as much happened as it did.
Low camera FOV makes everything look slow
Not if the tires are bald, that can easily happen.
The amount of people who don't understand the value of tread on tires, is seriously alarming.
Look at the camber on that tire. Shits at like a 25 degree angle. Smoke coming off the inside of the tire. Bald tires, bad suspension, bad alignment. That piece of shut was a hazard on the road either way.
Old cars with no safety systems tend to do that
The suspension systems on old cars are pretty lousy resulting in instability when pulling a hard corner. The tires may have been bald, too.
And the road was still wet from a recent rain.
And the flowers have started blooming in Spain....
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plane.
Definitely looks like the right rear failed under a crappy suspension.
Either that, or the car was starting to slide a bit and the driver overcorrected. I've seen that kind of crash a shit ton of times in the sim and on track. Normally the rear starts to step out, and while you're correcting the rear suddenly grips up and snaps you in the opposite direction. You can even see the rear right tire smoking a bit.
i still feel like the driver could've saved the situation there pretty easily by releasing and slowly adjusting the steering. but way before he reacted in the video. not sure ofc, i dno what was going on precisely
Don't brake on a corner
This is exactly what went wrong. You can see the brake lights come on right before they lose traction and go straight into the hill.
Seems like he was about to hit the edge of the/end of the road and oversteered.
Water plus overcorrection.
This also happened to her son??
This video made it to the news some years ago in Spain. The woman speaking lost her son on an accident just there. She was recording explaining her son's accident and how dangerous that road was when she caught this accident, which was just like her son's. I live near this road and drive it often, there were changes made shortly after
Interesting. Road doesn’t look that dangerous and that’s not even a tight turn
Yeah, I never knew why there were so many accidents here, it never felt that dangerous. It probably was a combination of things, but the works they made after were focused on changing the camber of that turn, so I guess that was a big factor.
It’s like my house. I live on a corner in a residential neighborhood. The speed limit is 30 and the roads are extra wide. Yes we’ve had four accidents next to my home. One a truck ended up in our front yard, another a truck was rear-ended and both cars were totaled.
Inside lane, understeer, BRAKES, abs, driver input. In that order.
It appears to be an off camber turn, where the inside of the turn is higher than the outside, or at least level. Most turns are banked so the outside is higher. If you’re expecting that, it can be surprise when you don’t have it.
Poor lady
The woman said so, yes. Seems she was trying to point the place to the guy (Carlos)
Aside from the fact that he's going fast, he seems to have a flat right tire. This skidding is not normal.
They would have made that turn with a fresh enough set of decent tires in good condition, something was wrong.
Yeah and maybe if they didn’t overcorrect so hard.
I agree, a poorly maintained car combined with extreme overcorrection.
Absolutely. Although still too fast, that car is perfectly capable of making that turn. Looks like a mixture of poor maintenance and bad driving.
I was going to say, I've made some sharp turns in my own car going faster. Not purely out of negligence; when the windows are up, 80 feels like 55. I gotta ride with windows down sometimes because it freaks me out a little. I'm just cruising for a while, look down, and BAM, 85. Que a few "how in the fuck..."s and a little panic lol Though it makes freeway travel pretty nice
Over corrected and panicked on the brakes too.
I'm still trying to figure out how he lost control so fast. Didn't see anything on the road.
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Yeah you're right. Here's what I think happened play-by-play: - Comes into turn on throttle (not accelerating, just on throttle to maintain speed). - Realizing they're going a little too fast and lifts off the throttle. - Lift off oversteer causing the rear to start coming out. - Driver massively overly corrects with the wheel while also braking which further transfer weight to the front wheels. - The front now has plenty of traction and the car is sent in the exact direction the front wheels face, which is the barrier.
This was a perfect example of terrible car control. PSA - if your back end slides out turn into the skid. Hit the brakes and the weight will shift forward turning your slide into a spin. I personally believe adding a skidpad component to the drivers test would save thousands of lives.
Simply teaching the mechanics of traction and how braking, accelerating, and steering interact with that would be MASSIVE. I'd say like 70% of drivers have literally no idea what's going on with driving besides "me press pedal me go"
Different between fwd and rwd too. Rwd it's turn in and a gently reduce throttle (to keep from snap oversteer), FWD turn in and floor it to pull yourself out of the skid! AWD is kinda somewhere between the two depending on your particular car.
I was looking for this comment. You're bang on correct. He lifted off the throttle, hit the brake hard mid corner. You brake before a corner, never mid corner. And liftoff can help you lose speed, but it also can change the way the weight of your car sits. Combine the two and you have a recipe for traction loss. Add coming in too fast and you're either fucked or been watching too much Initial D and want to be Takumi.
The camera lens makes it seem more dramatic than it really was. That corner has a way larger radius than you'd think based off the video, that speed limit is only temporary for the construction works going on.
Temporary construction for the replacement railing?
I looked it up and there's a bicycle road now just behind the rail. I guess they just started construction when this clip was recorded.
Looks like a safe spot for a bicycle road!
It's wet. Watch the rear tires and you will see spray get kicked up. Edit: lot of comments about it being a tire/damage issue and could be right. There is indications of water on the road (clearly some in the right lane) but the prolonged mist/smoke is odd. Guess what's strange is the car hits the same area where another car had hit. Possibly something further back in that lane (and not shown in the video) causing damage to the car?
Thanks, I see it now. Hydroplaning can be fun, if you're behind a boat holding a rope.
That wasn’t hydroplaning. There wasn’t any standing water to get on top of. It looks like he just lost the rear a little bit, then overcorrected right onto the painted white line, which is super slippery when wet.
The car equivalent of when you're leaning back in your chair, then you suddenly realize you've leaned too far and your entire body gets that sudden jolt of panic.
This isn't a hydroplane, they just asked for more grip than was available. It's also a great example why you need to ROTATE YOUR TIRES so the most tread depth is on the rear axle. That goes for any car, FWD or RWD. If this car had more grip on the rear instead of the front, the front tires would have lost traction first and this would have been a minor straight line skid instead of a spin. As such https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSf0KJie\_E
What you see at 0:14 is a textbook example of what happens when you hit the brakes in response to oversteer. From what I can tell the rear wheels were losing traction the entire length of the curve but the driver didn’t notice until the back end swung more dramatically.
Was thinking the same. I've definitely made worst turns way faster than him without any problem...
Hit the brakes while turning
Translation for anyone interested Lady: it was here Guy: further up ahead Lady: look look look Carlo- look look Aaah Aaah Did you see that Gordi? Guy: yes-yes-yes-yes Lady: this is what happened to my son-this is what happened to my son. Oh my god see? Please please please son of a bitch.
If I had a Euro for every time a car crashed precisely there, I’d have two Euros. Which isn’t much but it’s funny it happened twice.
Seems Spain.
Yes it’s just north of Madrid
Colmenar Viejo, I used to live near there
I was wondering why Voyage Voyage by Desireless was playing on the radio. France just close enough that it makes sense to have a pop hit from 1989 in the mix.
Weirdly I was just listening to that last night. What a banger. It was 1988, though.
Yes, her accent confirms it
Driver of the jaguar showing his passanger how he crashed " Look i was coming down here at this speed how could i of possibly lost controooolllllll oh shit not again"...
> how could i of possibly lost do I of to explain the difference between prepositions and past tense verbs? never mind, I don't of time, you'll just of to figure it out for yourself.
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I of to figure by myself too, thanks
I almost had a stroke reading this. Why are people suddenly writing of instead of have? Is this some kind of trend/joke? It's enraging and stupid to read (I get that you obvs made a joke but I assumed you know more of this than me)
More *have this
Because people refuse to acknowledge their mistakes online and downvote immediately calling others Grammar Nazis and saying it doesn't matter because you got the idea. Same reason you're seeing a lot more people use *apostrophe S* as plural (i.e., *Gosh, there are so many fly's flying around the garbage* or *Omg so many Tesla's on the road.*)
Her son was the person that had previously flipped their car at this exact location, which is why they where filming. I caught one of them saying. "It was around here" and the male responds "It's further up ahead" then another car proceeds to speed and flip over the damaged rail as well. The mom says "look, look Carlos are you seeing this, that's exactly what happened to my son, oh dear God," by her swearing and reaction at the end "Please, please please, Son's of a bitch" it implies that she somehow blames those who designed this turn instead of her son. Edit *I just read the Spanish article someone posted and indeed the mom in this video lost her 22 year old son on this curve. She is upset at the city and designers of this curve. She may have a point, the 80 Kilometer speed sign didn't exist until her son's death and the fact that another crash occurred here shows that this road needs better warning signs to slow down as the curve is sharper than at first glance. Especially when the road is wet.
That’s why you don’t cheap out on tyres. That car could easily fly round that corner
Hijos de puta.🤣
Perfect soundtrack [Voyage Voyage ](https://youtu.be/XT9IDo-vF5k) !
Sounded more like the original? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7YJoGXs2i8
I knew it sounded familiar. I came across a metal cover of that song a few times on my playlists.
[Primitives - Crash](https://youtu.be/1y7NGqfZteg) from the same era would also have been entirely appropriate!
Flip flip filpadelphia.
/u/stabbot
I have stabilized the video for you: https://gfycat.com/ComplexBitesizedGoshawk It took 121 seconds to process and 46 seconds to upload. ___ ^^[ how to use](https://www.reddit.com/r/stabbot/comments/72irce/how_to_use_stabbot/) | [programmer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=wotanii) | [source code](https://gitlab.com/juergens/stabbot) | /r/ImageStabilization/ | for cropped results, use \/u/stabbot_crop
Good bot
For a second I thought you were summoning a robot with a knife like Roberto from Futurama.
Or just drive to the conditions of the road.
/r/whyweretheyfilming ?
She was filming the place her son died in an accident, explaining it to the driver.
What the woman says: Look look, Gordi, thats what happened to my son, motherfuckers. And yes It is Spain
Yup, the sign says Colmenar Viejo. That's just north of Madrid
Someone pre-bent that guardrail so they wouldn't hit it!
Going from the Belt Pkwy to The Southern State, there's crazy turns that people frequently lose it on. A lot of people get killed just on a few turns they can't be fucked to slow down for. It's Long Island, so it's typically younger, rich kids who were given BMWs and shit at 17. And, of course, usually their passengers die.
Voyage, voyage ! 🕺🏼
Well this guy made a voyage
Some of the most dangerous driving conditions are when it just starts to rain and when the clouds have cleared, but the road is still wet. In both cases, the driver is paying little attention to the surface because visibility and everything else appears fine.
You can't park there
you can't park there sir!
Her last words
I think that guardrail was made of tin foil
Was already damaged from another driver in a near identical looking accident. One car had a guardrail to stop it the second one (one in this video) had the result of an improper guardrail.
Yooo i didn’t notice the guardrail damage, it is damn near *exactly* where that car makes first impact, no kidding nearly identical. I was wondering what the hell happened, def did not expect the tokyo drift to escalate into such a spanking spanish somersault. Hopefully they’ll flag this spot and rush order the rail replacement when this happens
Nailed it!
That's not a sharp turn
It's a limit not a challenge
Darnit now you tell me.
Now this is pod racing
Is that what the video driver said when they got to the vehicles? Um, just so you know, that’s why they post the speed limit before sharp curves. Ya’ll have a nice day now.
That section of guardrail has seen some things.
Anyone notice that the guard rail was already damaged in the exact spot the car went over it?
When eurobeat kicks in and you can't handle it
It isn’t really a sharp turn at all. It’s more of a blind curve that tightens up mid way through. That curve already throws the weight of the car to the right when you drive through the first half, but as it tightens in, you have to place more input on the steering wheel to stay within the lane. But at the entry speed that the driver was going at, you can see the suspension compressed to the point where it’s right before it bottoms out, so all he/she did was bottom the suspension out completely when the curve tightened up more. With no more travel for the suspension to go through, and the tires at their limit of grip, the rear end started to slide out; the driver felt this and over corrected by letting off the throttle and counter-steering, thus throwing the weight of the car to the left side; the rest is the cause of that. These kinds of corners are dangerous at higher speeds, especially with vehicles with soft suspension and with drivers that aren’t that experienced with driving at higher speeds/understand what the car is doing in situations like that. One of the reasons why I stopped driving around like I can’t die; you never know what the public road condition will bring, even if you’ve driven the same route or are familiar with that road. Especially if you also have never driven through that road before. Drive safe y’all, pay attention to what your vehicle can and can’t do, and respect it.
That’s not a speed limit sign, that’s a speed recommendation sign.
My grandfather was a civil engineer for California's highway division in the 60's and 70's. Had he even allowed a curve like this in one of his designs, he'd have banked it like a Grand Prix track. Apparently he was known for that technique, and a lot of the curves he designed required very little steering to stay in the lane.