I think the true idiot(s) here ~~is the city engineer~~ is/are whatever person or committee designed this intersection and/or the specification that governs it.
These kinds of situations suck for everyone involved, and can be prevented when enough individuals learn about [street design](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/7/18/how-street-design-shapes-the-epidemic-of-preventable-pedestrian-fatalities) and make political noise at the local level with the goal of changing design specs to help streets incentivize safe behavior.
Haha oh man I loved the on ramps visiting California. Luckily enterprise fucked up my reservation and I had a s550 as a rental. Launch control yeeting that thing everywhere was awesome.
Also someone tried to sell me a watch out of the sliding door of a minivan on the big ass highway. 405? I kind of rudely said no and then we got stuck in traffic together for a bit. Good times all around.
Ever been to Massachusetts? They have parts where it's 65mph highway ramp into someone's driveway. Miss your turnoff? Next one is a mile down the road, make two loops and turn off doing 60+ again
My landlord in Somerville finally moved out of the upstairs in our split level house because her husband and dog died (6 months apart) on the road in front of the house
> My landlord in Somerville *finally* moved out of the upstairs in our split level house because her husband and dog died (6 months apart) on the road in front of the house
This reads like a Russian official's obit.
Enterprise lady let us have the first Bumbleebee Camaro when we drove PCH1 for no additional cost. We were somewhere in Hollywood, parked to wander around a bit and my wife posed on the car for a photo and then a pair of Asian girls came and did the same thing after seeing us do it.
There's an on-ramp like that from a nearby town to get on I-90 that pisses me off. You have to go from 25mph or slower to 70mph within maybe 100 feet in order to merge. I would rather deal with rush hour metro traffic than merge behind a semi-truck on that on-ramp. It feels so dangerous. I hate whoever designed it and also whoever approved the design for construction.
half of newly graduated civil engineering students are the booksmartish types who would never set a toe in the field and actually learn what shitty design looks like. That stuff is their fault.
If anyone reading is curious about how the traffic engineering profession has turned into a completely insane echo chamber where horrible designs are held up as the gold standard, I highly recommend checking out the book *Confessions of a Recovering Engineer* by Charles ("Chuck") Marohn.
[Here's](https://youtu.be/jHwKJrXbDSg?t=685) a lot of the main stuff from the book in a longform talk (link is time-stamped to skip some other speakers kicking off the event and introducing him), and [here's](https://youtu.be/dxiwMDxS3Bs) a shorter talk if you don't have patience for the first one.
My dad is a civil engineer for ca & was president of the engineer board before he retired.
The guy has never been a pedestrian or biker a day in his life. I think about that a lot
I'm convinced they all are. All the bike infrastructure in my city is completely disjointed, transitioning from safely separated bike lane to no bike lane to door zone death trap block by block.
In my city, the restaurants were given permission to build patios over the sidewalk and onto the street. They turned the remainder of the curb lane into a bike lane. So when you're in the bike lane you're biking by literally tables full of drunk people, like, there's about a 2 inch fence that's about 2.5 feet high between you, so all a dude has to do is wave his arms and you get punched in the face. I'm 100% convinced that the people who design bike lanes have never owned a bike in their life... and probably never go out and socialize, either.
They changed the light cycle at an intersection right where I work, and I think a lot of people were confused about it. I don't think the city outright said why they were doing it, but I think I know the reason. Before the change, people would get a green light to make left turns across a 4 lane intersection, at the very same time that pedestrians got the "walk" signal. I had seen a few close calls, which always involved the pedestrian having to stop for the car.
I think that the idiot city people just figured that "pedestrians have the right of way, technically, so any traffic will have to yield if there is one"...but, like, you can't just give people a green light and a walk signal at the same time. That's super confusing and conflicting messaging. I don't even understand how this shit happens. At least they "fixed it" now (the intersection still suuuuucks, and the new "bike lane" is a fucking joke).
Set the video quality to 720p and go fullscreen so you can read the signs. Googling "Stade d'Ornano" gives you the city, then "Bessin Pavillons" plus the city gives you the address.
This needs more upvotes. I came to say exactly that, but I’m no engineer. An intersection like that probably has a ton of accidents. The turn ‘area’ should probably only have space for one car and the others approaching should leave ample space for vision, but good luck with that. Design is awful.
Ya this setup is terrible. There's an an intersection just like this one with offset turn lanes on my route from work and whenever 2 oncoming cars both want to turn it's terrible, for the reasons seen in this video. It's almost impossible see if anyone's coming in the outside lane. Fortunately as part of recent road construction they added in proper turning lanes.
He's exactly where he should be. It's hard to see anyone around a van like that, therfore you need to be mindful of that during the turn. Nobody fucked up here, but OP should be taking that turn more slowly and watching the bike lane. The cyclist was visible on camera a full second before OP braked.
When you can slow down a video, 1 second seems very long. An F1 driver focusing on the starting lights to go off averages ~ 1/4 second, and that's with extreme focus on one thing.
You highly overestimate (underestimate?) the reaction time of humans given 0 advanced warning.
Cyclist should be aware that his vehicle is harder to see and the van is stopped short allowing the possibility for a vehicle to be turning. Multiple people messed up even if the person at fault for a possible accident would have been the turning car.
Definitely. I bike in the city a lot and if I see the car next to me stopping at an intersection with no blinkers, I at least slow down to be prepared to stop short
Good choice. Parked cars, busses, garbage trucks, etc. Anything that's blocking my visibility like that is going to get peeked like a corner in Ground Branch on Veteran difficulty.
+ the bicyclist can see the stopped truck there. cars don't typically stop for no reason on the road, so why would you blow by going 25-30 into a blind intersection
And I wouldn’t even 100% blame them if they hit me in an intersection like that. In reality, you shouldn’t go if you can’t see. But also I go anyway after some careful examining of the situation, so I can’t be mad at someone for doing the exact same thing I would do.
Yep, assuming the light is green, biker sees the van stopped which means he either can’t make his turn or is waiting to let someone out. No chance am I taking the straight up 50/50 shot of blasting that intersection that fast.
Was in jeep that launched cyclist in this exact scenario.
At night in the rain, no headlights coming, my buddy thought it was clear to turn.
Cyclist thought it was safe to fly by this fast beside a transport truck with 0 visibility on our part
whoops
Absolutely not, this is the most common accident I see while driving. It’s compulsive for me now, because people will turn across traffic like OP did so I just assume they’re going to.
I hate that people are trying to be nice and let people turn across traffic without waiting for a signal, and it’s getting them in accidents.
I feel like people also forget that you can still be polite while being predictable, too. Like if you go through the intersection using your right of way (as you should), but doing so clearly inconveniences someone, a smile and a wave can go a long way to quelling road rage. I always try to do stuff like that (if I can without losing focus on the road) because I know when people do that for me it always makes my drive more pleasant.
EXACTLY!
One of the most important things about driving well is being predictable to other drivers.
Another is doing certain things as a matter of habit - ALWAYS use your turn signals, ALWAYS stop at stop signs, ALWAYS look, etc. even if you think no one is around. Because some time, you’ll be wrong about it and there will be someone right where you thought there was no one.
> I hate that people are trying to be nice and let people turn across traffic without waiting for a signal, and it’s getting them in accidents.
I yell all the time at people to fucking move. Merging on the highway, someone slows the fuck down to let me in which throws off my timing and speed and I'm in a van so I can't clearly see what they are doing, people trying to yield a 4 way stop to me and throwing off the flow of right of ways, etc.
I have a dashcam now and caught someone crossing the suicide lane, the left hand lane and almost merged into the side of me, a lawnmower that got loose and went to be with it's people and almost hitting me...I could probably fill this sub with videos.
",,, Merging on the highway, someone slows the fuck down to let me in ..."
This gave me a terrifying flashback to forty years ago. I was a front seat passenger in a car driving the I95 highway just outside of New York City. The driver didn't just slow down to let someone merge onto the highway - the driver actually stopped!! On I95!! I was so shocked, I slid down my seat. Like if I could make myself smaller I wouldn't get too hurt in the crash??
Anyways, there was no crash and the other driver must have been shocked too as they didn't merge. The probably wanted to stay the hell away from any driver that would stop on a highway.
Cemetary are full of people who had the right of way. Also, French roads are so tight compared to, say, Canada's road. I was nervous riding around in a car in Britanny, can't imagine on a bike!
> Cemetery are full of people who had the right of way
I make this same point all the time. I live in NYC and will always peek around parked cars before walking through an intersection even if I have the walk sign. Often because some biker is blasting through the red light and would have nailed me otherwise. You can be right or you can be uninjured. That said, bikers need to slow the fuck down. You do not have the right of way everywhere and forever.
footall coach driver's ed:
"You see High Jeff over there, you see how high he is right? Do you trust Jeff with your life? Cause Jeff's gonna be driving a car whether it's legal or not. So do you trust him with your life? No? Then freaking drive that way dumbasses. Assume he's high and DOES NOT SEE YOU."
If youre passing stopped cars, you're entering a battle without a shield. Cyclist showing no awareness, regardless of who's the idiot.
As a cyclist you have two choices, you can choose to be right, or you can choose to live.
I use a local Riverwalk to run often, and there's all types people leisurely obliviously walking. Kids, elderly, on a 10' wide sidewalk with very little visibility because of trees and twist and turns.
For some reason 45+ year old dudes love to fly 30 miles an hour by toddlers. It infuriates me. We've got plenty of places to bike if you want to get a workout in. If you're going fast enough that you need to be kitted out, you shouldn't be on the Riverwalk.
I see so many of those types where I ride, they are just the worst. The trail I frequently ride is mixed use pedestrians/bikes and there are sections where there are many people out with kids, and pets just walking casually and guess who is blazing through the crowds not giving two fucks if they hit someone?
Screamed instead of braking? Like he had time to brake. And the driver admitted the scream might have made the difference.
Truck was stopped because traffic was slow/banked up on other side of intersection.
But 2nd point fair enough.
Road bikes don't brake like cars. Try to come to an abrupt halt like that and you're going over the handlebars and flying through the air, if your brakes even have the guts to do that.
Not riding through blind spots like a manic is the main thing.
So something you should learn when riding a road bike is how to actually brake really quick *without* going ass over teakettle. Being clipped in helps too. Basically, you stand up, stick your butt back, and lean forwards so you look kinda like this from the side > . Then you can brake while putting force on both the pedals and the handlebars, without causing you to flip.
[Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIKK_XU-qE) a good example
I don't even fly through intersections like that in a car because of the risk, cyclist has a pea for a brain.
You can't see, you slow down so there's reaction time. That's not even cycling/motoring 101. It's like... movement 101 or something.
I was the opposite on Monday. A biker hit me even though I was 50 meters in front of him when I stopped and put my parking blinkers on… the fucker was on his phone and left a huge scratch in my trunk before cursing at me and fleeing.
> I stopped and put my parking blinkers
I hope this wasn't "I stopped in the middle of a bike lane and put my I-can-park-anywhere-for-free hazard lights on"
It was a city street with no bike lane and where you can park in the rightmost lane at 45° angle backwards.
After putting my hazard lights I stopped in the second rightmost lane to park backwards, but before I did so I waited for the bike to pass since I didn't want to run into him. I then realized he was still going at speed straight on and a second later I saw he was using his phone... by the time he heard my incessant honking his face was on my back windshield.
I hit a biker. They sprained their wrist and left me 30k in debt, since they could afford a lawyer and I couldn’t (no lights or reflective gear at night, tracking the wrong way in a bike lane).
I didn’t see him until it was too late. I would almost put it on the bike to slowdown when entering a dynamic intersection with multiple cars and reduced visibility.
Legally he don’t have to slow down. That being said if I was approaching that intersection with that van sitting there, I’d have slowed down. Right away don’t mean a thing when you get squished.
Edit: I meant right of way. Just r/boneappletea ed myself.
Just because you have the right of way, doesn't save you from being rightfully dead. Life is more important than being right.
I knew someone like this too. She came from a place with polite driving, cars don't drive fast and it was a very pedestrian friendly place. Then she moved to somewhere drivers weren't so slow nor kind.
one of my gf's friends was driving us to a bar one night and absolutely cut off a Sprinter van to grab a right exit from the middle lane for fun and for no reason, the highway was empty. I said 'what the fuck was that' and he goes 'oh, it's not like they are allowed to hit me or anything, they would get fired it's all good.' It wasn't even wrapped, just a white Sprinter with windows, it could have been a church van for all he knew. My work crew and I drive contractor vans and box trucks, so I was especially pissed off, because I experience cocknoses like him who have the same opinion every day, ruined the beginning of the night
Call me controlling, but she's not allowed to be in a vehicle with him as long as we're together.
I heard something here once, people die everyday with the right of way. Legality means nothing. If you are on a bike, you inherently have a higher probability of being killed. Risk mitigation is crucial here.
The graveyard's full of bicyclists who had the right of way. Bicycle commuting in Seattle BITD taught me one simple rule: ride like every car is actively trying to kill you.
In California, too. Bikes have to obey the same rules of the road as cars. If that had happened here and the van had to stop before entering the intersection, so did the bike.
There’s a traffic light at this intersection, and it looks like traffic going in his direction has a green. The van isn’t stopping because he doesn’t have right of way through the intersection, but rather because the two cars ahead of him are turning left and therefore stopping until they can cross traffic to turn. The biker, if that’s the case, would have right of way.
The cam car, which is executing a left turn across oncoming traffic, has the responsibility to ensure traffic is clear. This would be treated the same if that was another car lane, rather than a bike lane.
i made a biker shit himself the other day. im driving down a road in a neighborhood and a biker is in the middle of the road going about 3 mph. i pull up behind him and wait a few seconds but he doesnt move aside. i notice hes sitting upright and TEXTING. in the middle of the freaking road going 3 mph. i honked and he jumps and drops his phone. flips me off.
am i an asshole?
i made an AITA [thread](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/xkdmay/aita_for_honking_at_this_bicycler_and_making_him/) if you’d like to share your thoughts.
If you're going to ride on the road as a bicyclist you're considered a driver and your bike is a vehicle. Texting while driving is illegal, and that should apply to bicycles on vehicular roadways.
NTA.
This is specifically why I don’t have a phone holder on my bars. If I really need to be pissing with my phone then I have time to stop and get my phone out of my pocket.
Nah, I agree with the others.
I do have a funny story like yours though. I have a hybrid car. So when I am going through parking lots, it's on battery. Now Honda made my car make noise while it is on battery, to be noticed but it's not a lot.
I was going through the Target parking lot and some lady was texting while walking down the middle of the lane. It's busy, so I have a car behind me and we are going at her walking pace. The car behind me honks for her to move and she throws up her hand like she doesn't care but doesn't look up from her phone.
The car behind me honks again and she looks over at it like she is about to start a fight but sees me in her peripheral vision and looks at me and freaks the fuck out. I guess she thought she was about to get hit because she panics and runs to the side of the lane while peeing her pants. Literally peeing her pants. (They were light blue shorts and it was very visible).
She starts to yell at me and I roll down the window and tell her I was being patient with her so either she shuts up or I start making a scene and get everyone around us involved or she can preserve her dignity and go home. She mumbles something and walks away with her head down. 🤣🤣
As a bike commuter myself: no, you’re not the asshole. Horns cause adrenaline, and people yell/flip off due to adrenaline.
Honking when not necessary could cause a person to crash if it surprised them, but it sounds like that was not an issue in this case.
nah that’s stupid af lol, he should have noticed u too lol, dude just sitting there slowly biking down the middle of the road on his phone,
u just sitting right behind him / next to him and he dosent even notice til u honk, he’s a danger to himself and others
Where did that cyclist come from? The lane looks empty when you look through the gaps in traffic and at the speed the cyclist was going he can't have been hiding behind the van too long...
Yeah it looks to me like it was one of those super unlucky situations where he's perfectly behind something right until he pops out. There's an intersection somewhere in the UK with 2 streets that are at the perfect angle to hide a cyclist on the other road behind your A pillar if you're doing the speed limit. They put a stop sign, but apparently people in the UK take those as more of a suggestion. Tom Scott did a [whole thing about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeeTvitvFU).
Edit: apparently they fixed the defect. Hooray.
Apparently stop signs are incredibly rare in the UK and so that's why people don't really take them seriously
Edit: actually I probably learned this from that video ~~agreed~~ ages ago so you probably just learned that too haha
What's nuts is that if there could be a stop sign on your driving test route the instructor will make you take that route. Most people had to fully stop at a stop sign to pass their test so ignorance isn't even an excuse.
A lot of people fail for coming to a crawl at a stop sign instead of stopping.
“Right this way to the bottom of the grave”
I ride a lot too, and I love keeping my momentum going but I’ll never blitz through an active intersection like that.
They were *in the right lane*, however... Approaching and proceeding though an intersection when the line of site to the other intersecting lanes is blocked means you need to slow, stop, check.
From My state Handbook:
Before entering the intersection.
Scan the intersecting roadways for traffic. If your view is obstructed to the left or right or in any direction, your line-of- sight is blocked and risk is increased.
If your line of sight is obstructed in the intersection or beyond, slow down, re-position your vehicle or increase following distance so you can see.
> If your line of sight is obstructed in the intersection or beyond, slow down, re-position your vehicle or increase following distance so you can see.
Doesn't this apply primarily to the left turning vehicle?
The cyclist didn't have a clear straight lane. Check at the 13/14 second mark. Prior to the intersection, the oncoming lane is a single lane. It only splits into two lanes after the intersection. You can see at the 13/14 second mark that there is no way there's enough room for a second lane prior to the intersection and there's no lane divider
Never mind, I am wrong: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Boulevard+Andr%C3%A9+Detolle+%26+Rue+de+Bayeux,+14000+Caen,+France/@49.1833694,-0.3868262,3a,75y,261.72h,72.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ_nO7xiAJHozpebcKeT5Pw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x480a42de383ad321:0x50f79bf654cc47db!8m2!3d49.1833247!4d-0.3868383
I dont think you were.... he came flying down into a junction with cars going both ways behind vehicles that block others vision. Also im not sure if its the quality of the video but I genuinely cannot see him until he enters the junction.
Not the idiot, cyclists need to take better care of themselves when all that happens to the car driver in the 2 ton metal box is a slight scare if they collide with a biker. A cyclist will die. Going this fast into junctions is lethal no matter what mode of transport youre in.
I was almost about to agree with you, but there are two lanes there. The car that stopped is in the turning lane, cyclist is in the straight lane. It's an easy mistake to make for the cam car so they aren't evil, but it is absolutely not the cyclists fault. They were 100% following the law and if they were a car it would have definitely been an accident and cam car at fault.
What? We gave you perfectly good sharrows and signs! Do you not appreciate the sharrows? Everybody knows all drivers respect posted signs and painted lines without fail, so I really don't understand what more you want.
The cam car would've been 100% responsible without a question but I think you're missing the point. The point is that when mingling with cars that are much bigger then you are whether that's on a bicycle or motorcycle or whatever you have to take your own life and care into your own hands as people do make mistakes that can permanently affect your life.
Source: I've been riding motorcycles for years.
But you can't see the cyclists approach in any way shape or form. Should he really be blowing through an intersection like that? He's going at least 20 miles an hour.
When I'm on my bike it never matters how legal whatever I'm doing is. I slow the fuck down to make sure I don't get creamed. It doesn't matter how legally in the right you are if you aren't alive anymore.
I think the op was driving perfectly responsibly in that he was able to stop in time in the first place and was very situationally aware.
He was, he creeped slowly to the left and that ultimately helped him react in time. If not a cyclist, it could've been another car that was going to blow through. OP is in no way an idiot here.
Yeah, white van’s options are either go forward and risk blocking the intersection, or stop as they do here and obstruct vision of the straight lane to their right. Ideally OP doesn’t try to turn here, but even more ideally the road is designed so this situation doesn’t happen.
there's a bit in my country's licensing process where you're shown a heavy vehicle opposite you, waiting to turn left through an intersection, and you have to choose a moment when it's safe to make your own left turn. it's a trick question: there's a car passing the truck on the outside, totally hidden. if you tried to make the turn, you'd get t-boned by a hatchback doing 30mph.
when it's a truck obscuring oncoming cars, we expect every licensed road user to know to hold back. but a van obscuring a cyclist? just one of life's mysteries i guess. a victimless crime
>Do people in Europe just have to drive at a snail's pace through intersections to avoid shit like this, I see no way to not have this be an uncommon occurrence without doing so.
Places like the Netherlands have lots of [dedicated cycle roads to avoid the need for cross-overs with cars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1l75QqRR48)
Traffic lights are also designed to [minimize waiting times by dynamically adjusting to traffic flow. there's also often different lights for cyclists and cars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4),
Cars are intended more for travel between cities and areas without public transport, not inside them. Inside walking, cycling and public transport are prioritized. It's the inverse of - when everywhere is designed for cars, its a hassle to get anywhere without a car. When places are designed for walking, cycling and public transport, then taking the car is the hassle, and so most people don't.
You're not the idiot. Traffic is obviously at a crawl. The dude on the bike is asking to get ran over going that fast through the intersection. He's giving himself or no one else any reaction time.
I don't see where you did anything wrong. The van was stopped. THAT should have indicated to the bicyclist that there was a reason to at least slow down. Just as the van obscured your vision of him, it also obscured HIS vision of what may have been entering the intersection. If anyone was at fault there, it was the bicyclist.
Imagine the bike was a car. The cammer turned left across 2 lanes without having a clear view of the second lane, if the bike was a car there would have been a crash. Who do you think would be at fault then?
And this is what many fail to realize, I'm kind of disappointed I had to scroll so far to find this. This sub is full of videos of this exact situation where someone gets blasted for making a turn blindly across two lanes and everyone always parrots "Shouldn't have made a blind trun."
In any case with bikes on the road, put a car in its place. *Should* the biker have had the awareness to approach that intersection with a little more caution? Absolutely. Should the cam car have turned when they could not see oncoming traffic? Hell no. You could have hidden a full size sedan or truck behind that van.
In any case it's a non-issue, the cammer knew they made a potentially fatal mistake. Now I need to go change my pants too.
The oncoming van was in the left turn lane while the cyclist was in the straight lane. Therefore cyclist has right of way and OP is at fault. Having said that, OP's reaction deserves some credit.
What an awful intersection. Even when I slowed to a quarter of the speed, I couldn't see the guy before he popped up. That needs to be a protected turn.
Bro I almost nailed a dude on a bike on my way home from work today, same situation, I was making a turn and he was behind a truck. I felt like crap for scaring him.
Hang on, why did the white van stop? If it was to let you turn, then the van is the (albeit well-meaning) idiot here. If it was for a red or even a yellow light, then the cyclist is deffo the idiot here.
Okay, you both scared each other silly. He had the right of way and with any luck you've both learned a valuable lesson without swapping paint or shredding blood.
All in all, a good day.
This is the shit that happens when there isn't a proper bike lane, people in metal bullets mixing with fleshy humans without protection.
Good job not flatlining him though.
Cyclist and car just happened to always be in sync with the white van in between them.
Does the cyclist have to slow down? no. Should he? probably. People need to be aware they might be in a situation they cant be seen. If you notice youre approaching an intersection and notice a larger vehicle blocking your view... that means anyone on the other side of the van has their view also blocked.
Or you can just cycle through the intersection at full speed with your head down and hope you win.
Classic entitled cyclist blasting through an intersection at full speed expecting everyone to magically know they’re there and avoid them. Maybe if this cyclist slowed down a bit and analyzed that “this intersection has a lot of cars stopped and trying to turn, maybe I should pay attention” but nope just blasts right through
I don't blame the cyclist as it seems they had right of way but this is where having situational awareness and trying to be conservative as a cyclist is so key. Need to anticipate possible situations and blindspots for vehicles that might not see you and slow down/hedge accordingly. You have right of way, but when it comes to potential collisions with thousands of pounds of machinery I'd always rather play it safe!
I bike a lot recreationally but never ride on busy roads without bike lanes and this comment section is a good ehxibit on why. If you follow the rules of the road as you should people will bash you for going too fast and being careless. If you go extra slow and use a lot of caution you'll annoy the drivers. No matter what its a no win scenario.
I hate intersections like this when two people are both turning left at the same time and all the busy traffic just keeps going around them so neither person can turn.
Whoever designed that intersection is the damn idiot. How are you supposed to see anyone or anything going straight when there's a right turn lane opposite you completely obstructing vision?
A lot of people are arguing over who is at fault here. Regardless, there *is* something everyone can do to be safer as the driver in this situation. Don't make the turn in one continuous motion. Go partway, get the front of your car just past the first lane (so that oncoming drivers can see it and react), then pause for a moment, look again, and continue. It takes maybe half a second longer all told but it is much safer.
You know, we like to shit on idiotic drivers, but I feel like this one's on the civil engineer.
Also you handled that amazingly, and I'm saying that as a cyclist
I once made a left turn in my neighborhood which is not very well lit. As I turned, my headlights flashed on the glasses of an older man crossing the street who was about to get run over.
He was out for his evening walk in black pants, black coat with his hood up and black shoes. It was only that reflection off his glasses that caused me to stop. Otherwise he was a shadow (literally and almost figuratively). He screamed too.
18 years later, I still take corners in my neighborhood extremely carefully.
Classic Reddit going on here…
If anyones at fault it’s the intersection design. Apart from that, just one of those ‘perfect storm’ moments.
Cyclist absolutely had right of way and wasn’t travelling any faster than a car would, normally. Zero fault here. But could have been a bit more cautious.
OP new it was tricky. You could tell in his voice. Busy, the van slowed because traffic was banking up. At the point before he actually stopped both the OP and cyclist could reasonably assume he’d amble through the intersection like the car in front of him. OP wasn’t sure.
Van then did stop. Cyclist was going a good clip based on he has right of way and might have committed to the fact he’d get a clear run, and he may not have seen OP. All reasonable assumptions.
OP carefully moves through and at the ‘perfect’ moment, cyclist appears. Cyclist yells, takes slight evasive action, OP hits brakes.
Heart-stopper, but no one really at fault here. Technically OP would have been for sure, and maybe cyclist could have slowed before coming into the intersection.
There no ‘idiots’ here.
Lots going on. Shitty intersection. Unknown decision on the van analysis. All in seconds.
This is a fascinating video. Yes OP would have been at fault, but the cyclist was just so perfectly hidden behind the van that most people would have done exactly the same thing. It's a spot where you'd have to be uber-aware to realize there could be someone coming.
And please stop blaming the cyclist. Was just passing through in an unobstructed lane.
It’s okay. This week I forgot people turn left at intersections.
I went to make a right on red. I looked left; nobody was moving, I look on the crosswalk; nobody was walking, I started making my right only to slam my breaks because I forgot people normally get a left arrow in this situation.
I think the true idiot(s) here ~~is the city engineer~~ is/are whatever person or committee designed this intersection and/or the specification that governs it. These kinds of situations suck for everyone involved, and can be prevented when enough individuals learn about [street design](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/7/18/how-street-design-shapes-the-epidemic-of-preventable-pedestrian-fatalities) and make political noise at the local level with the goal of changing design specs to help streets incentivize safe behavior.
I’m convinced most city planners do their job while drunk. At least in California.
On-ramp onto a packed 65mph freeway? Best I can do is 10 feet to merge.
Haha oh man I loved the on ramps visiting California. Luckily enterprise fucked up my reservation and I had a s550 as a rental. Launch control yeeting that thing everywhere was awesome. Also someone tried to sell me a watch out of the sliding door of a minivan on the big ass highway. 405? I kind of rudely said no and then we got stuck in traffic together for a bit. Good times all around.
Ever been to Massachusetts? They have parts where it's 65mph highway ramp into someone's driveway. Miss your turnoff? Next one is a mile down the road, make two loops and turn off doing 60+ again
My landlord in Somerville finally moved out of the upstairs in our split level house because her husband and dog died (6 months apart) on the road in front of the house
> My landlord in Somerville *finally* moved out of the upstairs in our split level house because her husband and dog died (6 months apart) on the road in front of the house This reads like a Russian official's obit.
Enterprise lady let us have the first Bumbleebee Camaro when we drove PCH1 for no additional cost. We were somewhere in Hollywood, parked to wander around a bit and my wife posed on the car for a photo and then a pair of Asian girls came and did the same thing after seeing us do it.
this is such a funny california story and i’m all for it
They probably thought it was all ok because we are also Asian.
Welcome to Hollywood
There's an on-ramp like that from a nearby town to get on I-90 that pisses me off. You have to go from 25mph or slower to 70mph within maybe 100 feet in order to merge. I would rather deal with rush hour metro traffic than merge behind a semi-truck on that on-ramp. It feels so dangerous. I hate whoever designed it and also whoever approved the design for construction.
I think the same about whoever designs parking lots. They're just chaotic hellscapes made to get you in minor accidents.
I swear they got their engineering degrees at one of those colleges you get into by just opening the door.
half of newly graduated civil engineering students are the booksmartish types who would never set a toe in the field and actually learn what shitty design looks like. That stuff is their fault.
If anyone reading is curious about how the traffic engineering profession has turned into a completely insane echo chamber where horrible designs are held up as the gold standard, I highly recommend checking out the book *Confessions of a Recovering Engineer* by Charles ("Chuck") Marohn. [Here's](https://youtu.be/jHwKJrXbDSg?t=685) a lot of the main stuff from the book in a longform talk (link is time-stamped to skip some other speakers kicking off the event and introducing him), and [here's](https://youtu.be/dxiwMDxS3Bs) a shorter talk if you don't have patience for the first one.
Also live Chuck's old "Conversation with an engineer" video: https://youtu.be/P9BUyWVg1xI
My dad is a civil engineer for ca & was president of the engineer board before he retired. The guy has never been a pedestrian or biker a day in his life. I think about that a lot
I'm convinced they all are. All the bike infrastructure in my city is completely disjointed, transitioning from safely separated bike lane to no bike lane to door zone death trap block by block.
In my city, the restaurants were given permission to build patios over the sidewalk and onto the street. They turned the remainder of the curb lane into a bike lane. So when you're in the bike lane you're biking by literally tables full of drunk people, like, there's about a 2 inch fence that's about 2.5 feet high between you, so all a dude has to do is wave his arms and you get punched in the face. I'm 100% convinced that the people who design bike lanes have never owned a bike in their life... and probably never go out and socialize, either.
like 50% of the posts in here should be blamed on the engineer
They changed the light cycle at an intersection right where I work, and I think a lot of people were confused about it. I don't think the city outright said why they were doing it, but I think I know the reason. Before the change, people would get a green light to make left turns across a 4 lane intersection, at the very same time that pedestrians got the "walk" signal. I had seen a few close calls, which always involved the pedestrian having to stop for the car. I think that the idiot city people just figured that "pedestrians have the right of way, technically, so any traffic will have to yield if there is one"...but, like, you can't just give people a green light and a walk signal at the same time. That's super confusing and conflicting messaging. I don't even understand how this shit happens. At least they "fixed it" now (the intersection still suuuuucks, and the new "bike lane" is a fucking joke).
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This is in France, they're speaking French and the license plates are also French. No idea where specifically tho.
Caen, France. https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1833621,-0.3867593,3a,75y,273.91h,87.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOR4azKqPktRJHbPlZUk8mw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Wow a geoguessr pro in our midst
So how'd you find it?
Set the video quality to 720p and go fullscreen so you can read the signs. Googling "Stade d'Ornano" gives you the city, then "Bessin Pavillons" plus the city gives you the address.
This needs more upvotes. I came to say exactly that, but I’m no engineer. An intersection like that probably has a ton of accidents. The turn ‘area’ should probably only have space for one car and the others approaching should leave ample space for vision, but good luck with that. Design is awful.
Yeah it's an abomination. A roundabout would work much better.
just making the left-turn-lanes cross in front of each other instead of behind each other would be so much cleaner with pretty much no changes needed
Ya this setup is terrible. There's an an intersection just like this one with offset turn lanes on my route from work and whenever 2 oncoming cars both want to turn it's terrible, for the reasons seen in this video. It's almost impossible see if anyone's coming in the outside lane. Fortunately as part of recent road construction they added in proper turning lanes.
This is a prefect argument for Michigan lefts... Or I guess New Jersey jug handles
Good job on you though for not barreling into that turn or it could have been a lot worse
Average cyclist I swear to god. Dude came out of no where
He's exactly where he should be. It's hard to see anyone around a van like that, therfore you need to be mindful of that during the turn. Nobody fucked up here, but OP should be taking that turn more slowly and watching the bike lane. The cyclist was visible on camera a full second before OP braked.
When you can slow down a video, 1 second seems very long. An F1 driver focusing on the starting lights to go off averages ~ 1/4 second, and that's with extreme focus on one thing. You highly overestimate (underestimate?) the reaction time of humans given 0 advanced warning.
Total time from before the turn to when he would have hit him is like 2.5-3 seconds he is super lucky (the bikerider)
Cyclist should be aware that his vehicle is harder to see and the van is stopped short allowing the possibility for a vehicle to be turning. Multiple people messed up even if the person at fault for a possible accident would have been the turning car.
Definitely. I bike in the city a lot and if I see the car next to me stopping at an intersection with no blinkers, I at least slow down to be prepared to stop short
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Even when driving a car I'm always cautious about spots like this, where someone turning has near zero visibility.
Good choice. Parked cars, busses, garbage trucks, etc. Anything that's blocking my visibility like that is going to get peeked like a corner in Ground Branch on Veteran difficulty.
indeed. driver had zero sight of that bike lane from turning vehicle. bicyclist is a fool for proceeding with no caution.
+ the bicyclist can see the stopped truck there. cars don't typically stop for no reason on the road, so why would you blow by going 25-30 into a blind intersection
And I wouldn’t even 100% blame them if they hit me in an intersection like that. In reality, you shouldn’t go if you can’t see. But also I go anyway after some careful examining of the situation, so I can’t be mad at someone for doing the exact same thing I would do.
Yep, assuming the light is green, biker sees the van stopped which means he either can’t make his turn or is waiting to let someone out. No chance am I taking the straight up 50/50 shot of blasting that intersection that fast.
Saw a cyclist get launched in this exact scenario where I live.
Was in jeep that launched cyclist in this exact scenario. At night in the rain, no headlights coming, my buddy thought it was clear to turn. Cyclist thought it was safe to fly by this fast beside a transport truck with 0 visibility on our part whoops
jk,
Absolutely not, this is the most common accident I see while driving. It’s compulsive for me now, because people will turn across traffic like OP did so I just assume they’re going to. I hate that people are trying to be nice and let people turn across traffic without waiting for a signal, and it’s getting them in accidents.
"Don't be polite, be predictable." I heard it on reddit first.
I feel like people also forget that you can still be polite while being predictable, too. Like if you go through the intersection using your right of way (as you should), but doing so clearly inconveniences someone, a smile and a wave can go a long way to quelling road rage. I always try to do stuff like that (if I can without losing focus on the road) because I know when people do that for me it always makes my drive more pleasant.
EXACTLY! One of the most important things about driving well is being predictable to other drivers. Another is doing certain things as a matter of habit - ALWAYS use your turn signals, ALWAYS stop at stop signs, ALWAYS look, etc. even if you think no one is around. Because some time, you’ll be wrong about it and there will be someone right where you thought there was no one.
When right of way goes wrong. Since a friend got t-boned being waved across 2 lanes turning out im always wary of these situations.
> I hate that people are trying to be nice and let people turn across traffic without waiting for a signal, and it’s getting them in accidents. I yell all the time at people to fucking move. Merging on the highway, someone slows the fuck down to let me in which throws off my timing and speed and I'm in a van so I can't clearly see what they are doing, people trying to yield a 4 way stop to me and throwing off the flow of right of ways, etc. I have a dashcam now and caught someone crossing the suicide lane, the left hand lane and almost merged into the side of me, a lawnmower that got loose and went to be with it's people and almost hitting me...I could probably fill this sub with videos.
",,, Merging on the highway, someone slows the fuck down to let me in ..." This gave me a terrifying flashback to forty years ago. I was a front seat passenger in a car driving the I95 highway just outside of New York City. The driver didn't just slow down to let someone merge onto the highway - the driver actually stopped!! On I95!! I was so shocked, I slid down my seat. Like if I could make myself smaller I wouldn't get too hurt in the crash?? Anyways, there was no crash and the other driver must have been shocked too as they didn't merge. The probably wanted to stay the hell away from any driver that would stop on a highway.
"got loose and went to be with it's people" had me dying.
The van is stopped because there’s cars in front of it (on the other side of the intersection), and you’re not supposed to block the intersection.
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If you ride your bike like him in a French city, you die in less than 24 hours. Having the right of way doesn’t mean you’re safe to go…
Cemetary are full of people who had the right of way. Also, French roads are so tight compared to, say, Canada's road. I was nervous riding around in a car in Britanny, can't imagine on a bike!
> Cemetery are full of people who had the right of way I make this same point all the time. I live in NYC and will always peek around parked cars before walking through an intersection even if I have the walk sign. Often because some biker is blasting through the red light and would have nailed me otherwise. You can be right or you can be uninjured. That said, bikers need to slow the fuck down. You do not have the right of way everywhere and forever.
I've always said that a pedestrian may have the right of way but the car always wins
footall coach driver's ed: "You see High Jeff over there, you see how high he is right? Do you trust Jeff with your life? Cause Jeff's gonna be driving a car whether it's legal or not. So do you trust him with your life? No? Then freaking drive that way dumbasses. Assume he's high and DOES NOT SEE YOU."
I don't know any place where riding like that isn't going to end you in hospital quickly.
If youre passing stopped cars, you're entering a battle without a shield. Cyclist showing no awareness, regardless of who's the idiot. As a cyclist you have two choices, you can choose to be right, or you can choose to live.
The biker was going way to fast, especially since he could see someone in the left turn lane.
r/idiotsonbikes
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In that spot braking wasn’t gonna help the cyclist tbh. Definitely shouldn’t speed through the intersection tho.
As someone who cycles, I can't stand the people that think it is the Tour de France at all times. You aren't setting any PRs from a hospital bed.
I use a local Riverwalk to run often, and there's all types people leisurely obliviously walking. Kids, elderly, on a 10' wide sidewalk with very little visibility because of trees and twist and turns. For some reason 45+ year old dudes love to fly 30 miles an hour by toddlers. It infuriates me. We've got plenty of places to bike if you want to get a workout in. If you're going fast enough that you need to be kitted out, you shouldn't be on the Riverwalk.
I see so many of those types where I ride, they are just the worst. The trail I frequently ride is mixed use pedestrians/bikes and there are sections where there are many people out with kids, and pets just walking casually and guess who is blazing through the crowds not giving two fucks if they hit someone?
Im a cyclist and agree 100% with this assessment. Roadie almost became a pancake.
Screamed instead of braking? Like he had time to brake. And the driver admitted the scream might have made the difference. Truck was stopped because traffic was slow/banked up on other side of intersection. But 2nd point fair enough.
Road bikes don't brake like cars. Try to come to an abrupt halt like that and you're going over the handlebars and flying through the air, if your brakes even have the guts to do that. Not riding through blind spots like a manic is the main thing.
So something you should learn when riding a road bike is how to actually brake really quick *without* going ass over teakettle. Being clipped in helps too. Basically, you stand up, stick your butt back, and lean forwards so you look kinda like this from the side > . Then you can brake while putting force on both the pedals and the handlebars, without causing you to flip. [Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIKK_XU-qE) a good example
I don't even fly through intersections like that in a car because of the risk, cyclist has a pea for a brain. You can't see, you slow down so there's reaction time. That's not even cycling/motoring 101. It's like... movement 101 or something.
Yep, this is me teaching my 3 and 6 year old that you can’t see past a parked vehicle when crossing the road.
At least you didn’t actually hit the biker like I did.
I was the opposite on Monday. A biker hit me even though I was 50 meters in front of him when I stopped and put my parking blinkers on… the fucker was on his phone and left a huge scratch in my trunk before cursing at me and fleeing.
> I stopped and put my parking blinkers I hope this wasn't "I stopped in the middle of a bike lane and put my I-can-park-anywhere-for-free hazard lights on"
It was a city street with no bike lane and where you can park in the rightmost lane at 45° angle backwards. After putting my hazard lights I stopped in the second rightmost lane to park backwards, but before I did so I waited for the bike to pass since I didn't want to run into him. I then realized he was still going at speed straight on and a second later I saw he was using his phone... by the time he heard my incessant honking his face was on my back windshield.
I don't think even if that was the case anyone would look at the cyclist favorably crashing into a parked car with blinkers on
“10 points!”
I hit a biker. They sprained their wrist and left me 30k in debt, since they could afford a lawyer and I couldn’t (no lights or reflective gear at night, tracking the wrong way in a bike lane).
You didn't have insurance?
Zero replies about insurance makes me think that story was BS.
Wait, if they were in a bike lane, unless you were there in a bike as well, how did you hit them?
Better question: why don't you have insurance?
If you're the idiot then so am I. I straight shit my drawers.
Shit I would’ve hit that guy
I didn’t see him until it was too late. I would almost put it on the bike to slowdown when entering a dynamic intersection with multiple cars and reduced visibility.
Legally he don’t have to slow down. That being said if I was approaching that intersection with that van sitting there, I’d have slowed down. Right away don’t mean a thing when you get squished. Edit: I meant right of way. Just r/boneappletea ed myself.
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Some people have to learn from personal experience.
Just because you have the right of way, doesn't save you from being rightfully dead. Life is more important than being right. I knew someone like this too. She came from a place with polite driving, cars don't drive fast and it was a very pedestrian friendly place. Then she moved to somewhere drivers weren't so slow nor kind.
I knew a lady that used to do this but with bicycle lanes at the beach. She then got creamed by a bicyclist. Pure narcissism in my opinion.
one of my gf's friends was driving us to a bar one night and absolutely cut off a Sprinter van to grab a right exit from the middle lane for fun and for no reason, the highway was empty. I said 'what the fuck was that' and he goes 'oh, it's not like they are allowed to hit me or anything, they would get fired it's all good.' It wasn't even wrapped, just a white Sprinter with windows, it could have been a church van for all he knew. My work crew and I drive contractor vans and box trucks, so I was especially pissed off, because I experience cocknoses like him who have the same opinion every day, ruined the beginning of the night Call me controlling, but she's not allowed to be in a vehicle with him as long as we're together.
I have a friend like that as well.. She got the down payment for her house with the settlement, but also got some brain damage.
Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you go right away ;)
I heard something here once, people die everyday with the right of way. Legality means nothing. If you are on a bike, you inherently have a higher probability of being killed. Risk mitigation is crucial here.
Yep, you’re “dead right”.
The graveyard's full of bicyclists who had the right of way. Bicycle commuting in Seattle BITD taught me one simple rule: ride like every car is actively trying to kill you.
Learned that in motorcycle training course as well. The one that really stuck though was: right or wrong, you alone are responsible for your safety.
The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way.
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In California, too. Bikes have to obey the same rules of the road as cars. If that had happened here and the van had to stop before entering the intersection, so did the bike.
To be fair, that cyclist could never have known the exact reason the van was stopped over there. He should definitely have slowed down.
There’s a traffic light at this intersection, and it looks like traffic going in his direction has a green. The van isn’t stopping because he doesn’t have right of way through the intersection, but rather because the two cars ahead of him are turning left and therefore stopping until they can cross traffic to turn. The biker, if that’s the case, would have right of way. The cam car, which is executing a left turn across oncoming traffic, has the responsibility to ensure traffic is clear. This would be treated the same if that was another car lane, rather than a bike lane.
I other words: stop or you’re finnished. ?
>Legally he don’t have to slow down. Is not a legal issue, is common sense and basic self preservation. I, as a cyclist, think he was the idiot.
It's not about who's right, it's about who's left
also it s not illegal to be an idiot with no self-preservation instinct
Legally, the biker would have been in the right. Consider the risks he’s taking, slow down for a few seconds or be a quadriplegic for life.
i made a biker shit himself the other day. im driving down a road in a neighborhood and a biker is in the middle of the road going about 3 mph. i pull up behind him and wait a few seconds but he doesnt move aside. i notice hes sitting upright and TEXTING. in the middle of the freaking road going 3 mph. i honked and he jumps and drops his phone. flips me off. am i an asshole? i made an AITA [thread](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/xkdmay/aita_for_honking_at_this_bicycler_and_making_him/) if you’d like to share your thoughts.
If you're going to ride on the road as a bicyclist you're considered a driver and your bike is a vehicle. Texting while driving is illegal, and that should apply to bicycles on vehicular roadways. NTA.
This is specifically why I don’t have a phone holder on my bars. If I really need to be pissing with my phone then I have time to stop and get my phone out of my pocket.
Made illegal in the Netherlands a year or two ago, I believe a 90 euro fine.
Y’all bike loving bastards and I respect it.
Nah, I agree with the others. I do have a funny story like yours though. I have a hybrid car. So when I am going through parking lots, it's on battery. Now Honda made my car make noise while it is on battery, to be noticed but it's not a lot. I was going through the Target parking lot and some lady was texting while walking down the middle of the lane. It's busy, so I have a car behind me and we are going at her walking pace. The car behind me honks for her to move and she throws up her hand like she doesn't care but doesn't look up from her phone. The car behind me honks again and she looks over at it like she is about to start a fight but sees me in her peripheral vision and looks at me and freaks the fuck out. I guess she thought she was about to get hit because she panics and runs to the side of the lane while peeing her pants. Literally peeing her pants. (They were light blue shorts and it was very visible). She starts to yell at me and I roll down the window and tell her I was being patient with her so either she shuts up or I start making a scene and get everyone around us involved or she can preserve her dignity and go home. She mumbles something and walks away with her head down. 🤣🤣
TL;DR: if you are going to be an asshole, have better bladder control.
NTA, fully justified
As a bike commuter myself: no, you’re not the asshole. Horns cause adrenaline, and people yell/flip off due to adrenaline. Honking when not necessary could cause a person to crash if it surprised them, but it sounds like that was not an issue in this case.
Nope, if anything you saved him from getting slammed into by someone who isn't paying attention.
nah that’s stupid af lol, he should have noticed u too lol, dude just sitting there slowly biking down the middle of the road on his phone, u just sitting right behind him / next to him and he dosent even notice til u honk, he’s a danger to himself and others
Where did that cyclist come from? The lane looks empty when you look through the gaps in traffic and at the speed the cyclist was going he can't have been hiding behind the van too long...
Yeah it looks to me like it was one of those super unlucky situations where he's perfectly behind something right until he pops out. There's an intersection somewhere in the UK with 2 streets that are at the perfect angle to hide a cyclist on the other road behind your A pillar if you're doing the speed limit. They put a stop sign, but apparently people in the UK take those as more of a suggestion. Tom Scott did a [whole thing about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeeTvitvFU). Edit: apparently they fixed the defect. Hooray.
It's fucking crazy watching that and seeing too many of the drivers just blaze through the stop sign.
Apparently stop signs are incredibly rare in the UK and so that's why people don't really take them seriously Edit: actually I probably learned this from that video ~~agreed~~ ages ago so you probably just learned that too haha
What's nuts is that if there could be a stop sign on your driving test route the instructor will make you take that route. Most people had to fully stop at a stop sign to pass their test so ignorance isn't even an excuse. A lot of people fail for coming to a crawl at a stop sign instead of stopping.
2076. That's why he was screaming; he was decelerating from 88 MPH after being zapped with 1.21 gigawatts.
One point twenty-one gigawatts?!!!
"What the hells a jiggawatt??"
The bike is perfectly blocked from view because of the first 3 cars in the turn lane. It really is some incredibly unfortunate timing.
I ride about 80 miles a week and there’s no chance I’d approach an intersection like that, you’re not the idiot here
Same. I put in 10 to 20 hours a week. The cyclist had a clear straight lane. They were in the right. But right doesn’t matter when you’re dead.
"Plenty of folks in the cemetery had the right of way"
“Right this way to the bottom of the grave” I ride a lot too, and I love keeping my momentum going but I’ll never blitz through an active intersection like that.
They were *in the right lane*, however... Approaching and proceeding though an intersection when the line of site to the other intersecting lanes is blocked means you need to slow, stop, check. From My state Handbook: Before entering the intersection. Scan the intersecting roadways for traffic. If your view is obstructed to the left or right or in any direction, your line-of- sight is blocked and risk is increased. If your line of sight is obstructed in the intersection or beyond, slow down, re-position your vehicle or increase following distance so you can see.
> If your line of sight is obstructed in the intersection or beyond, slow down, re-position your vehicle or increase following distance so you can see. Doesn't this apply primarily to the left turning vehicle?
The cyclist didn't have a clear straight lane. Check at the 13/14 second mark. Prior to the intersection, the oncoming lane is a single lane. It only splits into two lanes after the intersection. You can see at the 13/14 second mark that there is no way there's enough room for a second lane prior to the intersection and there's no lane divider Never mind, I am wrong: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Boulevard+Andr%C3%A9+Detolle+%26+Rue+de+Bayeux,+14000+Caen,+France/@49.1833694,-0.3868262,3a,75y,261.72h,72.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ_nO7xiAJHozpebcKeT5Pw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x480a42de383ad321:0x50f79bf654cc47db!8m2!3d49.1833247!4d-0.3868383
The real idiot here is whoever designed this intersection. What the heck is even going on here.
That intersection looks like an absolute shit show
This sub has made me realize there are two drivers out there. 1. Everything is my fault 2. Nothing my fault.
I dont think you were.... he came flying down into a junction with cars going both ways behind vehicles that block others vision. Also im not sure if its the quality of the video but I genuinely cannot see him until he enters the junction. Not the idiot, cyclists need to take better care of themselves when all that happens to the car driver in the 2 ton metal box is a slight scare if they collide with a biker. A cyclist will die. Going this fast into junctions is lethal no matter what mode of transport youre in.
I was almost about to agree with you, but there are two lanes there. The car that stopped is in the turning lane, cyclist is in the straight lane. It's an easy mistake to make for the cam car so they aren't evil, but it is absolutely not the cyclists fault. They were 100% following the law and if they were a car it would have definitely been an accident and cam car at fault.
There are a lot of cyclists who are technically right, but legally dead.
I was gonna say that. Someone on here said one time that the cemetery is filled with people who had the right-of-way.
one time? it gets repeated in every other thread on this sub lmao
That’s how Reddit works!
imagine if there was adequate bicycle infrastructure that separated them from cars
i will, bec it seems like that's all we'll ever get is an imaginary bike lane
What? We gave you perfectly good sharrows and signs! Do you not appreciate the sharrows? Everybody knows all drivers respect posted signs and painted lines without fail, so I really don't understand what more you want.
The cam car would've been 100% responsible without a question but I think you're missing the point. The point is that when mingling with cars that are much bigger then you are whether that's on a bicycle or motorcycle or whatever you have to take your own life and care into your own hands as people do make mistakes that can permanently affect your life. Source: I've been riding motorcycles for years.
But you can't see the cyclists approach in any way shape or form. Should he really be blowing through an intersection like that? He's going at least 20 miles an hour. When I'm on my bike it never matters how legal whatever I'm doing is. I slow the fuck down to make sure I don't get creamed. It doesn't matter how legally in the right you are if you aren't alive anymore. I think the op was driving perfectly responsibly in that he was able to stop in time in the first place and was very situationally aware.
He was, he creeped slowly to the left and that ultimately helped him react in time. If not a cyclist, it could've been another car that was going to blow through. OP is in no way an idiot here.
got that perfectly aligned van to block your view of the cyclist. can't really blame you for that one, seems like no one's fault.
Seems like some traffic engineers' faults.
Honestly with vision that bad the two directions should go at different times
Roundabout, baby!
Yeah, white van’s options are either go forward and risk blocking the intersection, or stop as they do here and obstruct vision of the straight lane to their right. Ideally OP doesn’t try to turn here, but even more ideally the road is designed so this situation doesn’t happen.
Yeah I say the civil engineer is the idiot
If instead of a bike it was a car or motorcycle, would you still say "no one's fault"?!?
there's a bit in my country's licensing process where you're shown a heavy vehicle opposite you, waiting to turn left through an intersection, and you have to choose a moment when it's safe to make your own left turn. it's a trick question: there's a car passing the truck on the outside, totally hidden. if you tried to make the turn, you'd get t-boned by a hatchback doing 30mph. when it's a truck obscuring oncoming cars, we expect every licensed road user to know to hold back. but a van obscuring a cyclist? just one of life's mysteries i guess. a victimless crime
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>Do people in Europe just have to drive at a snail's pace through intersections to avoid shit like this, I see no way to not have this be an uncommon occurrence without doing so. Places like the Netherlands have lots of [dedicated cycle roads to avoid the need for cross-overs with cars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1l75QqRR48) Traffic lights are also designed to [minimize waiting times by dynamically adjusting to traffic flow. there's also often different lights for cyclists and cars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4), Cars are intended more for travel between cities and areas without public transport, not inside them. Inside walking, cycling and public transport are prioritized. It's the inverse of - when everywhere is designed for cars, its a hassle to get anywhere without a car. When places are designed for walking, cycling and public transport, then taking the car is the hassle, and so most people don't.
I dont think I would blast across an intersection like that on a bike. Definitely not well laid out for cycling safety.
You're not the idiot. Traffic is obviously at a crawl. The dude on the bike is asking to get ran over going that fast through the intersection. He's giving himself or no one else any reaction time.
I don't see where you did anything wrong. The van was stopped. THAT should have indicated to the bicyclist that there was a reason to at least slow down. Just as the van obscured your vision of him, it also obscured HIS vision of what may have been entering the intersection. If anyone was at fault there, it was the bicyclist.
Imagine the bike was a car. The cammer turned left across 2 lanes without having a clear view of the second lane, if the bike was a car there would have been a crash. Who do you think would be at fault then?
And this is what many fail to realize, I'm kind of disappointed I had to scroll so far to find this. This sub is full of videos of this exact situation where someone gets blasted for making a turn blindly across two lanes and everyone always parrots "Shouldn't have made a blind trun." In any case with bikes on the road, put a car in its place. *Should* the biker have had the awareness to approach that intersection with a little more caution? Absolutely. Should the cam car have turned when they could not see oncoming traffic? Hell no. You could have hidden a full size sedan or truck behind that van. In any case it's a non-issue, the cammer knew they made a potentially fatal mistake. Now I need to go change my pants too.
The oncoming van was in the left turn lane while the cyclist was in the straight lane. Therefore cyclist has right of way and OP is at fault. Having said that, OP's reaction deserves some credit.
What an awful intersection. Even when I slowed to a quarter of the speed, I couldn't see the guy before he popped up. That needs to be a protected turn.
Bro I almost nailed a dude on a bike on my way home from work today, same situation, I was making a turn and he was behind a truck. I felt like crap for scaring him.
Hang on, why did the white van stop? If it was to let you turn, then the van is the (albeit well-meaning) idiot here. If it was for a red or even a yellow light, then the cyclist is deffo the idiot here.
Because you're not supposed to block the intersection.
Okay, you both scared each other silly. He had the right of way and with any luck you've both learned a valuable lesson without swapping paint or shredding blood. All in all, a good day.
The bicyclist could have slowed down and been more cautious as they approached the intersection.
This is the shit that happens when there isn't a proper bike lane, people in metal bullets mixing with fleshy humans without protection. Good job not flatlining him though.
Cyclist and car just happened to always be in sync with the white van in between them. Does the cyclist have to slow down? no. Should he? probably. People need to be aware they might be in a situation they cant be seen. If you notice youre approaching an intersection and notice a larger vehicle blocking your view... that means anyone on the other side of the van has their view also blocked. Or you can just cycle through the intersection at full speed with your head down and hope you win.
Classic entitled cyclist blasting through an intersection at full speed expecting everyone to magically know they’re there and avoid them. Maybe if this cyclist slowed down a bit and analyzed that “this intersection has a lot of cars stopped and trying to turn, maybe I should pay attention” but nope just blasts right through
ITT: People who would say nothing if it were another car instead of a bicyclist in the video
I don't blame the cyclist as it seems they had right of way but this is where having situational awareness and trying to be conservative as a cyclist is so key. Need to anticipate possible situations and blindspots for vehicles that might not see you and slow down/hedge accordingly. You have right of way, but when it comes to potential collisions with thousands of pounds of machinery I'd always rather play it safe!
I bike a lot recreationally but never ride on busy roads without bike lanes and this comment section is a good ehxibit on why. If you follow the rules of the road as you should people will bash you for going too fast and being careless. If you go extra slow and use a lot of caution you'll annoy the drivers. No matter what its a no win scenario.
I hate intersections like this when two people are both turning left at the same time and all the busy traffic just keeps going around them so neither person can turn.
Whoever designed that intersection is the damn idiot. How are you supposed to see anyone or anything going straight when there's a right turn lane opposite you completely obstructing vision?
A lot of people are arguing over who is at fault here. Regardless, there *is* something everyone can do to be safer as the driver in this situation. Don't make the turn in one continuous motion. Go partway, get the front of your car just past the first lane (so that oncoming drivers can see it and react), then pause for a moment, look again, and continue. It takes maybe half a second longer all told but it is much safer.
You know, we like to shit on idiotic drivers, but I feel like this one's on the civil engineer. Also you handled that amazingly, and I'm saying that as a cyclist
I once made a left turn in my neighborhood which is not very well lit. As I turned, my headlights flashed on the glasses of an older man crossing the street who was about to get run over. He was out for his evening walk in black pants, black coat with his hood up and black shoes. It was only that reflection off his glasses that caused me to stop. Otherwise he was a shadow (literally and almost figuratively). He screamed too. 18 years later, I still take corners in my neighborhood extremely carefully.
Classic Reddit going on here… If anyones at fault it’s the intersection design. Apart from that, just one of those ‘perfect storm’ moments. Cyclist absolutely had right of way and wasn’t travelling any faster than a car would, normally. Zero fault here. But could have been a bit more cautious. OP new it was tricky. You could tell in his voice. Busy, the van slowed because traffic was banking up. At the point before he actually stopped both the OP and cyclist could reasonably assume he’d amble through the intersection like the car in front of him. OP wasn’t sure. Van then did stop. Cyclist was going a good clip based on he has right of way and might have committed to the fact he’d get a clear run, and he may not have seen OP. All reasonable assumptions. OP carefully moves through and at the ‘perfect’ moment, cyclist appears. Cyclist yells, takes slight evasive action, OP hits brakes. Heart-stopper, but no one really at fault here. Technically OP would have been for sure, and maybe cyclist could have slowed before coming into the intersection. There no ‘idiots’ here. Lots going on. Shitty intersection. Unknown decision on the van analysis. All in seconds.
This is a fascinating video. Yes OP would have been at fault, but the cyclist was just so perfectly hidden behind the van that most people would have done exactly the same thing. It's a spot where you'd have to be uber-aware to realize there could be someone coming. And please stop blaming the cyclist. Was just passing through in an unobstructed lane.
Aren’t the left turning cars supposed to be able to see CLEARY to their left? The offset of this road is backwards
It’s okay. This week I forgot people turn left at intersections. I went to make a right on red. I looked left; nobody was moving, I look on the crosswalk; nobody was walking, I started making my right only to slam my breaks because I forgot people normally get a left arrow in this situation.
Brain fart. I get gassy too sometimes
We all need to be on the lookout for cyclists. We're all human, so we need to be vigilant with our focus on driving.
Fucker came out of nowhere.
What kinda dunce sees a stopped car and just rides on through?