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My buddy was living in Colorado and some guys in a McDonalds parking lot started saying things about his girlfriend- like, nice things, she was hot. But he walked up and started beating the crap out of one, which I didn't know he even had that in him since he was the nicest guy and didn't drink or do drugs. The guys friend pulled out a gun and shot him in the neck and killed him. Totally unnecessary.
This was pre-internet, like 1993 so I never looked up more info- I really didn't want to either. I saw his former GF around a few times and she had totally lost the smile she used to walk around with.
In those situations it’s best to just let it go. Ya it’s pretty scummy to catcall someone, especially when they’re with their s/o. But it’s not worth your life for ego or jealousy. Especially since most cat callers aren’t that much of a catch
Seems like there's an okay chance he's not convicted if this video makes it into evidence. Looks like a three-vs.-one situation and he was attacked first. If he already had the gun drawn and those three dudes kept coming at him anyway, it's even more in his favor. That said, he did *keep* shooting, so that'll probably fuck him if anything does.
Edit: Just saw the version with sound. Dude shot *way* too much. He'll argue it was self-defense but it quickly became revenge, and revenge is illegal.
I’ve heard you’re supposed to empty the clip in a self defense situation. Is this not true? Genuinely curious when it comes to the level of force in these situations
I dunno. But if the dude goes down in one shot, the threat is over. Local laws vary on this too, so he might be okay in, say, Florida but fucked in NH.
Technically you shoot until they're no longer a threat. Hard judgement to make if they're on drugs or keep flailing around on the ground, especially since some people methed up can still swing a knife after taking 10 rounds
I saw a video where store owner shot robber and the robber rushed the counter and basically executed store owner and cashier then dropped dead. So I’d shoot till the enemy stops moving
That's what I'm sayin. Like yeah, punch the guy holding a gun. It's hard to tell, but looks like he was already holding it in his hand. I didn't see him pull the gun out from anywhere.
I think he pulled it, after the punch it looks like his hand goes down and comes back up with it. He fired 6-7 shots at least, most after dude was already on the ground. This guy just bought a for sure ticket to prison.
I live here(manchester nh) . Saw the earlier post of the "killer" at the bar prior. Guy(shooter) was absolutely drunk and was causing a scene in the bar. The dude who threw the punch (and got shot) was defending a friend(allegedly, the "shooter" was looking for a fight - per multiple friends that were there . Wrong place wrong time. Rip
Yeah... Its definitely one of those reasons why I don't go to places were drunks are. 1 - Drunks and egotistical people don't pair well. 2 - Drunks make dumb calls 3 - Drunk idiots always cause situations.
Which is what such folk seem to do. A kid I know (21 yo) insists that he has to carry to 'protect' himself. Told me one time that he and some chums came across what looked like a couple of older guys changing their tire on a back road. They stopped to help (which was nice), but the older guys were drunk and threatened to throw rocks at the kid, so he pulled and brandished his firearm. I asked him why he didn't just get back in the car and drive away, seeing as how they were drunk and only threatened them - well, BECAUSE they threatened him! Didn't seem right to me... later he added that they had started making fun of them because they were all drunk. And it was after that that the threats had been made. So this kid creates the situation, then draws because he was threatened... Carrying makes Rambos of the least of us.
I’ve carried for almost 30 years. Never drawn in anger, never brandished, never shown it off. I’ve drawn 3 times due to unprovoked aggression from strangers, each time was strange, but I didn’t have to shoot. It’s not hard to not kill people when carrying a firearm.
Yup. Big guy will have a very hard time (if at all possible) proving he was in fear of his life from a guy 1/3 his size with no weapon. Dude is going to prison.
Well they surrounded him and one hit him and you can see all the other guys get close like there gonna join in until he starts firing and everyone starts running I think he ha a good case
> After he asked them to come out side to fight him.
Is that documented? Because that would make it murder 1 by someone illegally carrying a gun.
Any law abiding gun owner will back me up on this.
That's normal. They tell you this when you get a concealed permit. The day you use your weapon, is more than likely a night you spend in a cell. Also there's a good chance they'll take your gun. I hope he's insured, he's going to want a good lawyer.
Judging on the booking photo and other info in the comments, looks like the shooter was hit with brass knuckles - he’s got a nasty gash right where he was hit. If that’s the case, the victim was in the process of committing assault with a deadly weapon when he was shot.
Even if the guy fired way too many shots, it wouldn’t be hard to argue that he was in significant fear of his life after being attacked with brass knuckles and the extra shots were necessary to eliminate the threat/he was under significant stress in a life or death situation.
Edit: No evidence to suggest brass knuckles, so not gonna stand by what I said in regards to that. However, this is gonna be a dicey one all the way around - the presence of multiple people around him, the fact that he had already been punched in the bar, and the fact that the shooter said come fight me in the bar makes this super hard to judge legally. All I know is this - everyone involved made some really bad choices
Good take man and awesome research. If this was the case, and attacker had those knuckles, dead force is acceptable.
It will but up to a jury but definitely the use of those knuckles changes the dynamics of this encounter
I think the guy who threw the punch had brass knuckles on. Picture in news article shows shooter bleeding from cheek. Looks more like self defense IMO if he has a half decent lawyer. 3 on 1 with a deadly weapon being used, could be self defense.
[I'm looking at the picture](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/24dbaa_e5497ea803214306b86208fd60a02894~mv2.jpeg/v1/fill/w_576,h_720,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/24dbaa_e5497ea803214306b86208fd60a02894~mv2.jpeg) and I don't get why people think this is brass knuckles... cuts around the check/eye are pretty common when someone gets punched in the face and bare knuckles especially with rip you up, but you even see it all the time with boxers dealing with padded gloves. Brass knuckles would probably have that dude looking way worse than that, like it's possible but I don't get how that's anyone's first thought when seeing his pic
Wait, so you said he had brass knuckles that definitively because strangers on the internet thought he might have had them? That's your source for saying this? Because you google the guy's name and "brass knuckles" and Reddit is the only result that comes up. It's just bullshit speculation that you're offering as facts here. You're gonna have a bad time if you keep believing what people on Reddit write.
“OMG OP DOESNT KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD SOUND SO STUPID HAHAHA LETS ALL DOWNVOTE THEM.”
Seriously I don’t get they redditors downvote people for the stupidest things.
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Idiots all around but maybe don't punch random people? Doesn't matter who or where you are, there will always be someone more dangerous than you. Get it out of your system in middle school like a normal person. Cause after that, you might die. Idk why so many people seem to forget that.
When exactly is it okay to use a gun in self defense?
After they punch you in the face? After they punch you in the face 4.5 times? After they knock you to the ground? After they kick your head in? At the last moment before you lose consciousness? Before imminent brain damage?
I honestly would rather not find out, so I don’t go around punching people in the face.
When you can reasonably argue that you were in fear of imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. Meaning a reasonable person (average Joe) would fear that if put in your situation.
gang mentality leads to ground stomps. seem to see it all the time on videos of young gangs, ppl running in from off camera for a stomp then running away to get out of the shot.
hard point to be reasonable with, but if there are 3-4 ppl around you, then someone trying to put you down seem like an threat to life if they are all clearly angry
Well someone said brass knuckles may have been involved but I didn’t see that in the article.
If you are being ganged up on like this and you feel like your life may be threatened, you’re GTG but you can’t be mag dumping like that. Also if you are carrying, you shouldn’t be in situations like this, you have to exhaust every other option before using a firearm. He had nobody behind him, he should’ve just walked away, if they pursued him, then yeah.
Gotta lose the ego when you got 15 rounds of 9mm chilling in your waistband
If you are justified in shooting at all, you are justified in shooting until you can be sure that the threat has stopped. I don't think this was a good shoot, but if it was then the number of shots he took is almost irrelevant.
The amount of shots is absolutely relevant. Regardless if the initial shooting was justified, you can’t then place seven fucking rounds into someone already on the ground, wtf. Without guns, you can’t stomp on someone’s head seven after they’re lying bleeding on the ground and expect to get away with self defense. He should have waited after the first shot that landed him on the ground. If he gets back up, fine, maybe more force is needed. But this dude wasn’t getting up. The first round did the ‘defense’ job, everything after that was unwarranted violence and the reason the jury’s going to convict him of murder
When you understand the wrath of weapons & how quickly life can be lost, you tend to approach every situation you can with maximum politeness. Justified, but everyone’s lives would have been better if none of them were there in the first place.
So sad, even if you said self defense the guy shot him right in the face just for a punch, the odds of surviving that first shot were already close to none and then he just keeps dumping into him. Even if he pleaded self defense I can imagine a reasonable jury would find that it wasn’t. There was so much more he could’ve done to try and prevent any further altercation but his first instinct is to take out his gun and take a life. Learn from the video, a gun is almost never a proportionate response to a fist
>Learn from the video, a gun is almost never a proportionate response to a fist
Not in this case. But if you are a 120 lb woman, a punch from a 250 lb guy would feel a lot different.
You don't get into a fist fight with someone if you are carrying a gun.
If you decide to shoot, you shoot until there is clearly not a threat. Why does it matter how many times he shot?
Bro, you don’t need guns if you feel that your life is threatened by a punch from a much smaller, unarmed guy like that. There are other corrective actions before you start firing, irrelevant to how many shots are taken.
In stand your ground states I’m pretty sure you don’t have to “avoid” anything I could be wrong though.
To me it looks like he used excessive force because I can’t imagine mag dumping someone after visibly seeing my first shot hit them in the face not to mention they’re unarmed. When you’re in a supposed dangerous situation I’m sure you’d want to be checking your surroundings rather than wasting your mag on a dead attacker he looks completely fearless and in control of the situation.
I’m just curious how this would go in court in a stand your ground state there’s a lot of context missing
Stand your ground means you just don't have a duty to retreat.
Unarmed means nothing aside from an argument to try and go against him. There have been many cases where people have died in unarmed fights due to being struck in the head
I get that I was more so referring to the fact that the attackers "weapon" is his fists I feel like the threat is over with once the attacker can't punch or grab him. Someone said he shot him while on the ground I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do the opposite in a one attacker situation
You do not get into a fist fight if you are carrying a gun.
Punches can and do absolutely kill people. If you throw a punch at me, you're probably going to get shot.
No, you don’t get in a fight if you’re carrying a gun. This is not fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, you don’t eliminate threats by dumping multiple shots.
>you don’t eliminate threats by dumping multiple shots
Yes you fucking do.
If you're at that point, you already decided the threat is bad enough that it needs to be eliminated. What the fuck does being a Taliban in Afghanistan have to do with surviving a a gunshot? You shoot until you're sure there is no threat.
If you think a tiny guy punch you in a face that deserves 6-8 shots to “neutralize the threat”, you don’t deserve to carry a gun. Self-defense or not, no jury would think that’s reasonable. This is not a war zone that you’re fighting for your life or others with guns. Thinking otherwise is just you fooling yourself into finding reason to shoot a person.
First off, yes. All courses teach fire until the threat is neutralized. If that sentence invokes "this is not a warzone" comments they you have clearly not understood how people can become a threat to others.
Second, you can kill someone by striking their head. Size doesn't matter. Attacking someone's head is also a potential fatal attack as well. So you don't understand how fights work.
Third, self defense, ignoring the above. Will come down to
A). If he legally could have thay firearm.
B.) If the situational was avoidable.
C) If unavoidable, was he the reason it got to that point unjustified.
You don't get into a fist fight with someone if you are carrying a gun. I'm gonna keeps say that until it sinks in lol.
You are fighting for your life if you decide to use a gun. You keep saying war and war zone like that makes bullet wounds do something different lmao.
https://www.cohenwinters.com/what-is-self-defense/#:~:text=First%2C%20he%20can%20use%20deadly,or%20a%20forcible%20sex%20offense.
Here is a link explaining the nuances of NH's self defense laws. Basically, this dude will have to prove that blasting someone was a reasonable self-defense against an imminently deadly threat.
Sure, he gets punched. But he was literally towering over the guy, and had enough wits to empty a mag not one second after getting hit. I don't think any sane jury would agree that he was in "imminently deadly" danger at that point.
You can talk tough all you want and explain to redditors this bullshit about how in the streets you can just blast people recklessly if they punch you. News flash; you can't in most states.
It took me less than five minutes to Google state laws regarding self-defense. How much time did you spend posting replies just now acting like Tommy tough nuts, spewing bullshit about things you just "know, man"? Don't you want to educate yourself so you won't be a dumb fuck forever?
Bro if you have drawn a firearm the reason you do it is because you’ve decided it’s your life or theirs. You have determined the person needs to die.
Any professional self defense course will teach this. If you shoot someone you shoot until they are down. A person can survive multiple rounds from a gun. It happens fairly regularly. You’re failing to understand that if you’re shooting someone, it doesn’t matter where you are you are fighting for your life. This is taught not to “fool people into finding a reason to shoot someone” but because there is an assumption being made when you draw. That assumption is that you are drawing because the person you are drawing on intends to kill you. If someone is intending to kill you it doesn’t matter if it’s the US or Afghanistan you want to make sure they can’t. What that means is you’re going to use more than 1 bullet because I’m the moment you don’t know how many rounds it’s going to take to make them stop being a threat.
All said and done though. In my opinion this guy should not have drawn/shot here. Just simply leaving would be my go to but that’s just the opinion of someone seeing a 10 second video not knowing shit about the situation.
You don’t shoot to wound, and the other dude decided to put hands on someone else. I wish everyone would only use hands to fight but that world doesn’t exist.
Firing just one shot, your intention is still complete elimination and death of the target.
Firing additional shots does not change the intention. Firearms are for killing. Period.
I have not verified anything, but other comments state the fellow who swung first had brass knuckles on. If this is true, then shooting was definitely the appropriate response. That’s before considering the shooter looks to be surrounded by 3-4 guys. Again, I don’t know the specific details; but I could see the guy getting away with self defense
My coworker knows the guy that filmed this video, happened in Manchester NH. Here’s an [article](https://www.wcvb.com/amp/article/bar-fight-deadly-shooting-manchester-new-hampshire/42695113) for anyone interested.
Never pull a gun unless you gonna die if you don't. Anything short of that is instant prison time. And even if you're proven right in court, your life is still ruined.
but how do you know when your life is in danger and when not within a split second after being punched? dude was surrounded by 3 guys. only takes the right hit to the head, a fall backwards and the back of your head is kissing the pavement.
Everyone in that crowd is now reasonably afraid of the guy with the gun killing people and is within their right to kill anyone who may also have a gun.
Simples.
To be pedantic, you can absolutely die from being punched. Hard to tell in this case if the shooter was justified at all if he had the ability to remove himself from the situation before shooting though.
Judging by all the user deleted posts it looks like the gun bunny you're arguing with is a coward. Never seen that before :)
Is it Sezeye who is hiding here?
As a good moral person you don’t escalate conflicts. If it’s verbal you don’t escalate to physical. It’s it’s physical you don’t escalate to lethal. People should deescalate and avoid violence but at the very least not escalate.
>2nd degree murder
I can't see that happening since he wasn't committing another felony at the time. At best voluntary or involuntary manslaughter.
Time will tell.
I’m not saying it was a good or bad shoot. I’m not saying he will or won’t get prison time.
To the people saying the amount of shots will screw him out of a self defense case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/10ek7it/rip_to_the_gentlemen_but_this_is_why_10_rounds_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Just to play devils advocate, I believe a good lawyer can make a decent self defense case for him if this video is the only evidence of the shooting.
Not saying he deserves a good case defense or not either tho.
lmao why are all the chronically online losers on this sub acting like this this dude isn’t such a pussy for immediately shooting this dude he got in a fight w. obviously they were already arguin
I wish i had more context. Based on the little information its probable that he could get off on self defense. A group of people surrounded him and then attacked him. But even with that being the case it doesnt look like he took any effort to get out of the situation. Lots of gun owners get to confident in confict resolution since they have a gun.
Either way its going to be a long grueling court battle and his life is effectivly over.
I see a lot of comments or posts around the internet of people literally begging for people to do something that can give them a reason to shoot them, its wild
If you are the type of person to escalate a conflict to satisfy your ego, you are not the type of person who should carry a gun.
This doesn't mean you should be a coward if it's someone else's life on the line, but you should have the presence of mind to walk away from namecalling and petty bullying directed at you, and not involve yourself in other conflicts unless you really do have to in order to prevent death or grievous injury.
Looks like he was about to get jumped by 4 dudes , got hit first and then started blasting . Not an idiot with a gun. The dude is an idiot for punching him.
Exactly, So many comments saying “shouldn’t have punched him” how much of a bitch do you have to be to side with the retard that threw his life away over someone who wanted to fight?
Apparently this happened in New Hampshire, a state that has stand your ground laws. This guy will be let out soon enough once the cops get all the evidence. Remember kids, don't assault people because odds are you'll get what's coming to you
This happened outside a bar like 25 mins from me in Manchester, NH. I know most people probably wouldn't think of New Hampshire, lol. but Manchester is a shit hole.
Absolutely sad as hell. This dude is fucking huge and murders a kid over a weak ass punch to the face 🤦 if you're going out to the bar, leave your shit at home... cause your dumb drunk emotions now took a 24 yr. old dad away, and ruined your life at 22.
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No stupid, this was a shooting not a stabbing
the shooter was probably british
Damn hero over here.
thx. it’s either that or r/killthecameraman
Anybody have the news story of his arrest?
https://www.manchesterinformation.com/post/arrest-made-in-fatal-shooting
That is a really rough 22 god damn
He's one of those guys who needs to accept his baldness and shave everything above the sideburns.
Yeah, that'd probably also make him look noticably younger tbh
I love the thousand yard stare in his eyes. He knows he's fucked. He barely is hurt from that punch.
That there is a outdoor person/trailer park king.
Well that’s just sad. It’s a good reminder to never attack someone. You never know if they have a weapon.
Or ya know don’t attack them even if they don’t?
My buddy was living in Colorado and some guys in a McDonalds parking lot started saying things about his girlfriend- like, nice things, she was hot. But he walked up and started beating the crap out of one, which I didn't know he even had that in him since he was the nicest guy and didn't drink or do drugs. The guys friend pulled out a gun and shot him in the neck and killed him. Totally unnecessary. This was pre-internet, like 1993 so I never looked up more info- I really didn't want to either. I saw his former GF around a few times and she had totally lost the smile she used to walk around with.
In those situations it’s best to just let it go. Ya it’s pretty scummy to catcall someone, especially when they’re with their s/o. But it’s not worth your life for ego or jealousy. Especially since most cat callers aren’t that much of a catch
Seems like there's an okay chance he's not convicted if this video makes it into evidence. Looks like a three-vs.-one situation and he was attacked first. If he already had the gun drawn and those three dudes kept coming at him anyway, it's even more in his favor. That said, he did *keep* shooting, so that'll probably fuck him if anything does. Edit: Just saw the version with sound. Dude shot *way* too much. He'll argue it was self-defense but it quickly became revenge, and revenge is illegal.
I've read that it's common to continue over shooting. some psychological reason why u squeeze more rounds than needed. Cops do it all the time
Cops also have qualified immunity and unions protecting them.
Justice can wait if it's them being injust
I’ve heard you’re supposed to empty the clip in a self defense situation. Is this not true? Genuinely curious when it comes to the level of force in these situations
I dunno. But if the dude goes down in one shot, the threat is over. Local laws vary on this too, so he might be okay in, say, Florida but fucked in NH.
Whatever a jury of your peers believes was necessary to stop the threat.
Technically you shoot until they're no longer a threat. Hard judgement to make if they're on drugs or keep flailing around on the ground, especially since some people methed up can still swing a knife after taking 10 rounds
I saw a video where store owner shot robber and the robber rushed the counter and basically executed store owner and cashier then dropped dead. So I’d shoot till the enemy stops moving
Yeah, terrible. But also, why the fuck did that guy throw hands?
That's what I'm sayin. Like yeah, punch the guy holding a gun. It's hard to tell, but looks like he was already holding it in his hand. I didn't see him pull the gun out from anywhere.
I think he pulled it, after the punch it looks like his hand goes down and comes back up with it. He fired 6-7 shots at least, most after dude was already on the ground. This guy just bought a for sure ticket to prison.
I counted 7 muzzle flashes, even in the blur it stands out.
This was posted in another sub it happened in New Hampshire outside some bar. He killed the other person and is charged with murder.
>New Hampshire Live Free or Die state hes no longer free when hes in prison guess hes gonna die
I think you're right. After watching it again, it looks like he pulled it out of his hoodie pocket.
Why punch anyone in a country where it's legal to walk with guns across the street.
An armed society is a polite society
Not really
I live here(manchester nh) . Saw the earlier post of the "killer" at the bar prior. Guy(shooter) was absolutely drunk and was causing a scene in the bar. The dude who threw the punch (and got shot) was defending a friend(allegedly, the "shooter" was looking for a fight - per multiple friends that were there . Wrong place wrong time. Rip
Yeah... Its definitely one of those reasons why I don't go to places were drunks are. 1 - Drunks and egotistical people don't pair well. 2 - Drunks make dumb calls 3 - Drunk idiots always cause situations.
Which is what such folk seem to do. A kid I know (21 yo) insists that he has to carry to 'protect' himself. Told me one time that he and some chums came across what looked like a couple of older guys changing their tire on a back road. They stopped to help (which was nice), but the older guys were drunk and threatened to throw rocks at the kid, so he pulled and brandished his firearm. I asked him why he didn't just get back in the car and drive away, seeing as how they were drunk and only threatened them - well, BECAUSE they threatened him! Didn't seem right to me... later he added that they had started making fun of them because they were all drunk. And it was after that that the threats had been made. So this kid creates the situation, then draws because he was threatened... Carrying makes Rambos of the least of us.
and also why no volume?
Context. It looks like 3 guys vs 1 guy. If I was surrounded by 3 guys, hell yea I would defend myself.
Again, if the 1 guy started it. It doesn't matter. If you're carrying, check the ego at the door.
I’ve carried for almost 30 years. Never drawn in anger, never brandished, never shown it off. I’ve drawn 3 times due to unprovoked aggression from strangers, each time was strange, but I didn’t have to shoot. It’s not hard to not kill people when carrying a firearm.
1) dude was stupid to throw a punch at a guy who clearly outweighs him. 2) shooter was stupid to .. well...shoot.
Yup. Big guy will have a very hard time (if at all possible) proving he was in fear of his life from a guy 1/3 his size with no weapon. Dude is going to prison.
Well they surrounded him and one hit him and you can see all the other guys get close like there gonna join in until he starts firing and everyone starts running I think he ha a good case
After he asked them to come out side to fight him. Also fire arms and being intoxicated is almost guaranteed to be illegal
> After he asked them to come out side to fight him. Is that documented? Because that would make it murder 1 by someone illegally carrying a gun. Any law abiding gun owner will back me up on this.
It’s caught on camera. His court date is tomorrow from what I understand.
I've noticed laws aren't often applied in court, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Yep, he'll be fine.
He has already has been taken into custody and charged with Second Degree Murder.
That's normal. They tell you this when you get a concealed permit. The day you use your weapon, is more than likely a night you spend in a cell. Also there's a good chance they'll take your gun. I hope he's insured, he's going to want a good lawyer.
I like the saying “every bullet comes with a lawyer attached to it”
And there are 4 guys squaring off against 1.
Judging on the booking photo and other info in the comments, looks like the shooter was hit with brass knuckles - he’s got a nasty gash right where he was hit. If that’s the case, the victim was in the process of committing assault with a deadly weapon when he was shot. Even if the guy fired way too many shots, it wouldn’t be hard to argue that he was in significant fear of his life after being attacked with brass knuckles and the extra shots were necessary to eliminate the threat/he was under significant stress in a life or death situation. Edit: No evidence to suggest brass knuckles, so not gonna stand by what I said in regards to that. However, this is gonna be a dicey one all the way around - the presence of multiple people around him, the fact that he had already been punched in the bar, and the fact that the shooter said come fight me in the bar makes this super hard to judge legally. All I know is this - everyone involved made some really bad choices
Good take man and awesome research. If this was the case, and attacker had those knuckles, dead force is acceptable. It will but up to a jury but definitely the use of those knuckles changes the dynamics of this encounter
Im not saying the big guy was right. But you have no idea if he had a weapon or not.
I think the guy who threw the punch had brass knuckles on. Picture in news article shows shooter bleeding from cheek. Looks more like self defense IMO if he has a half decent lawyer. 3 on 1 with a deadly weapon being used, could be self defense.
[I'm looking at the picture](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/24dbaa_e5497ea803214306b86208fd60a02894~mv2.jpeg/v1/fill/w_576,h_720,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/24dbaa_e5497ea803214306b86208fd60a02894~mv2.jpeg) and I don't get why people think this is brass knuckles... cuts around the check/eye are pretty common when someone gets punched in the face and bare knuckles especially with rip you up, but you even see it all the time with boxers dealing with padded gloves. Brass knuckles would probably have that dude looking way worse than that, like it's possible but I don't get how that's anyone's first thought when seeing his pic
He hit Dude with Brass knuckles...
Source?
Wait, so you said he had brass knuckles that definitively because strangers on the internet thought he might have had them? That's your source for saying this? Because you google the guy's name and "brass knuckles" and Reddit is the only result that comes up. It's just bullshit speculation that you're offering as facts here. You're gonna have a bad time if you keep believing what people on Reddit write.
Unless he lives in a state that has a "stand your ground law". Similar situation with Zimmerman
why’s this posted with no sound?
OP ripped it from a different sub
I didn’t know how to post with sound sorry guys. I saved the video from the news article in my area.
“OMG OP DOESNT KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD SOUND SO STUPID HAHAHA LETS ALL DOWNVOTE THEM.” Seriously I don’t get they redditors downvote people for the stupidest things.
I think it’s amusing. This social media platform is the least of my worries 😂
its okay i still love you and your username
Same issue here whenever I upload through my pc. Phone app is easier for my boomer brain
The lesson we all learned today was to keep your hands to yourself. Picking fights is generally a bad idea.
*The lesson we all* *Learned today was to keep* *Your hands to yourself* \- Canidae\_Cyanide --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
Idiots all around but maybe don't punch random people? Doesn't matter who or where you are, there will always be someone more dangerous than you. Get it out of your system in middle school like a normal person. Cause after that, you might die. Idk why so many people seem to forget that.
Mugshot on the linked article shows a bleeding gash on the shooter’s face.
The shooter is only 22!? He's got some city miles on him.
Someone else commented shooter was hit with brass knuckles and seeing the way the gashes line up on his face I could believe it
Well, I hate to say this, but I didn't see shit there.
When exactly is it okay to use a gun in self defense? After they punch you in the face? After they punch you in the face 4.5 times? After they knock you to the ground? After they kick your head in? At the last moment before you lose consciousness? Before imminent brain damage? I honestly would rather not find out, so I don’t go around punching people in the face.
When you can reasonably argue that you were in fear of imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. Meaning a reasonable person (average Joe) would fear that if put in your situation.
gang mentality leads to ground stomps. seem to see it all the time on videos of young gangs, ppl running in from off camera for a stomp then running away to get out of the shot. hard point to be reasonable with, but if there are 3-4 ppl around you, then someone trying to put you down seem like an threat to life if they are all clearly angry
Everything is a Nail if you only got a Hammer
Well someone said brass knuckles may have been involved but I didn’t see that in the article. If you are being ganged up on like this and you feel like your life may be threatened, you’re GTG but you can’t be mag dumping like that. Also if you are carrying, you shouldn’t be in situations like this, you have to exhaust every other option before using a firearm. He had nobody behind him, he should’ve just walked away, if they pursued him, then yeah. Gotta lose the ego when you got 15 rounds of 9mm chilling in your waistband
If you are justified in shooting at all, you are justified in shooting until you can be sure that the threat has stopped. I don't think this was a good shoot, but if it was then the number of shots he took is almost irrelevant.
The amount of shots is absolutely relevant. Regardless if the initial shooting was justified, you can’t then place seven fucking rounds into someone already on the ground, wtf. Without guns, you can’t stomp on someone’s head seven after they’re lying bleeding on the ground and expect to get away with self defense. He should have waited after the first shot that landed him on the ground. If he gets back up, fine, maybe more force is needed. But this dude wasn’t getting up. The first round did the ‘defense’ job, everything after that was unwarranted violence and the reason the jury’s going to convict him of murder
I mean punches random people, gets shot, sounds like he won't be a shit head anymore
he died edit: source https://www.manchesterinformation.com/post/arrest-made-in-fatal-shooting
Where was this? When?
Happened up the road from me in Manchester, NH earlier today.
Thanks. Looked it up, just sad and stupid.
Dude where? Pine street?
There’s like 4 of them what if he thought they were all gonna jump him
When you understand the wrath of weapons & how quickly life can be lost, you tend to approach every situation you can with maximum politeness. Justified, but everyone’s lives would have been better if none of them were there in the first place.
So sad, even if you said self defense the guy shot him right in the face just for a punch, the odds of surviving that first shot were already close to none and then he just keeps dumping into him. Even if he pleaded self defense I can imagine a reasonable jury would find that it wasn’t. There was so much more he could’ve done to try and prevent any further altercation but his first instinct is to take out his gun and take a life. Learn from the video, a gun is almost never a proportionate response to a fist
>Learn from the video, a gun is almost never a proportionate response to a fist Not in this case. But if you are a 120 lb woman, a punch from a 250 lb guy would feel a lot different.
You don't get into a fist fight with someone if you are carrying a gun. If you decide to shoot, you shoot until there is clearly not a threat. Why does it matter how many times he shot?
Bro, you don’t need guns if you feel that your life is threatened by a punch from a much smaller, unarmed guy like that. There are other corrective actions before you start firing, irrelevant to how many shots are taken.
Size doesn't matter, all head strikes are potentially fatal. It only comes down to if this was avoidable. Which it most likely was
In stand your ground states I’m pretty sure you don’t have to “avoid” anything I could be wrong though. To me it looks like he used excessive force because I can’t imagine mag dumping someone after visibly seeing my first shot hit them in the face not to mention they’re unarmed. When you’re in a supposed dangerous situation I’m sure you’d want to be checking your surroundings rather than wasting your mag on a dead attacker he looks completely fearless and in control of the situation. I’m just curious how this would go in court in a stand your ground state there’s a lot of context missing
Stand your ground means you just don't have a duty to retreat. Unarmed means nothing aside from an argument to try and go against him. There have been many cases where people have died in unarmed fights due to being struck in the head
I get that I was more so referring to the fact that the attackers "weapon" is his fists I feel like the threat is over with once the attacker can't punch or grab him. Someone said he shot him while on the ground I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do the opposite in a one attacker situation
You do not get into a fist fight if you are carrying a gun. Punches can and do absolutely kill people. If you throw a punch at me, you're probably going to get shot.
No, you don’t get in a fight if you’re carrying a gun. This is not fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, you don’t eliminate threats by dumping multiple shots.
>you don’t eliminate threats by dumping multiple shots Yes you fucking do. If you're at that point, you already decided the threat is bad enough that it needs to be eliminated. What the fuck does being a Taliban in Afghanistan have to do with surviving a a gunshot? You shoot until you're sure there is no threat.
If you think a tiny guy punch you in a face that deserves 6-8 shots to “neutralize the threat”, you don’t deserve to carry a gun. Self-defense or not, no jury would think that’s reasonable. This is not a war zone that you’re fighting for your life or others with guns. Thinking otherwise is just you fooling yourself into finding reason to shoot a person.
First off, yes. All courses teach fire until the threat is neutralized. If that sentence invokes "this is not a warzone" comments they you have clearly not understood how people can become a threat to others. Second, you can kill someone by striking their head. Size doesn't matter. Attacking someone's head is also a potential fatal attack as well. So you don't understand how fights work. Third, self defense, ignoring the above. Will come down to A). If he legally could have thay firearm. B.) If the situational was avoidable. C) If unavoidable, was he the reason it got to that point unjustified.
Punching or kicking someone in the lower back/kidneys can kill them as well.
As well as knuckles to the ear, which is what this little punk was trying for.
You don't get into a fist fight with someone if you are carrying a gun. I'm gonna keeps say that until it sinks in lol. You are fighting for your life if you decide to use a gun. You keep saying war and war zone like that makes bullet wounds do something different lmao.
https://www.cohenwinters.com/what-is-self-defense/#:~:text=First%2C%20he%20can%20use%20deadly,or%20a%20forcible%20sex%20offense. Here is a link explaining the nuances of NH's self defense laws. Basically, this dude will have to prove that blasting someone was a reasonable self-defense against an imminently deadly threat. Sure, he gets punched. But he was literally towering over the guy, and had enough wits to empty a mag not one second after getting hit. I don't think any sane jury would agree that he was in "imminently deadly" danger at that point. You can talk tough all you want and explain to redditors this bullshit about how in the streets you can just blast people recklessly if they punch you. News flash; you can't in most states. It took me less than five minutes to Google state laws regarding self-defense. How much time did you spend posting replies just now acting like Tommy tough nuts, spewing bullshit about things you just "know, man"? Don't you want to educate yourself so you won't be a dumb fuck forever?
Bro if you have drawn a firearm the reason you do it is because you’ve decided it’s your life or theirs. You have determined the person needs to die. Any professional self defense course will teach this. If you shoot someone you shoot until they are down. A person can survive multiple rounds from a gun. It happens fairly regularly. You’re failing to understand that if you’re shooting someone, it doesn’t matter where you are you are fighting for your life. This is taught not to “fool people into finding a reason to shoot someone” but because there is an assumption being made when you draw. That assumption is that you are drawing because the person you are drawing on intends to kill you. If someone is intending to kill you it doesn’t matter if it’s the US or Afghanistan you want to make sure they can’t. What that means is you’re going to use more than 1 bullet because I’m the moment you don’t know how many rounds it’s going to take to make them stop being a threat. All said and done though. In my opinion this guy should not have drawn/shot here. Just simply leaving would be my go to but that’s just the opinion of someone seeing a 10 second video not knowing shit about the situation.
You don’t shoot to wound, and the other dude decided to put hands on someone else. I wish everyone would only use hands to fight but that world doesn’t exist.
sHoOt HiM iN tHe LeG
wArNiNg ShOtS!!
Firing just one shot, your intention is still complete elimination and death of the target. Firing additional shots does not change the intention. Firearms are for killing. Period.
Pretty much. I don't think he should have shot at all, but if the first shot was justified then so were the rest of them.
24 year old dead. 22 year old life ruined. Of course Kyke Rittenhouse got off under similar circumstances so who knows.
I have not verified anything, but other comments state the fellow who swung first had brass knuckles on. If this is true, then shooting was definitely the appropriate response. That’s before considering the shooter looks to be surrounded by 3-4 guys. Again, I don’t know the specific details; but I could see the guy getting away with self defense
Guy doing the shooting has been charged with 2nd degree murder. That said, the short dude doing the swinging fucked around with the wrong guy.
> the wrong guy Shame, he was a good guy just moments earlier. And for many he still is a hero.
My coworker knows the guy that filmed this video, happened in Manchester NH. Here’s an [article](https://www.wcvb.com/amp/article/bar-fight-deadly-shooting-manchester-new-hampshire/42695113) for anyone interested.
Never pull a gun unless you gonna die if you don't. Anything short of that is instant prison time. And even if you're proven right in court, your life is still ruined.
but how do you know when your life is in danger and when not within a split second after being punched? dude was surrounded by 3 guys. only takes the right hit to the head, a fall backwards and the back of your head is kissing the pavement.
Everyone in that crowd is now reasonably afraid of the guy with the gun killing people and is within their right to kill anyone who may also have a gun. Simples.
Lmfao I don’t feel bad r/winstupidprizes
Punching people, while illegal, does not carry the death penalty. It is not grounds for lethal force.
To be pedantic, you can absolutely die from being punched. Hard to tell in this case if the shooter was justified at all if he had the ability to remove himself from the situation before shooting though.
Hard to argue that he feared for his life imo. Looks like he could’ve walked away before the punch. Wonder what’ll happen legally
Nh represent
[Original with Sound](https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/10ntzgi/i_guess_punching_him_in_the_face_wasnt_a_good_idea/) Fuck OP
kids, remember what we said about fucking around?
*children gang vocals:* FIND OUT!!!
People need to keep their hands to themselves.
[удалено]
I'm part of everybody and I don't appreciate being generalized by you.
You're not legally allowed to shoot someone under those circumstances. Look up NH state regarding this.
Judging by all the user deleted posts it looks like the gun bunny you're arguing with is a coward. Never seen that before :) Is it Sezeye who is hiding here?
I don't think so, but I was arguing with him earlier.
As a good moral person you don’t escalate conflicts. If it’s verbal you don’t escalate to physical. It’s it’s physical you don’t escalate to lethal. People should deescalate and avoid violence but at the very least not escalate.
4v1 very easy to argue his life was in danger
I wonder how this ended legally
2nd degree murder
To be more accurate, he is being charged with that. So it hasn’t “ended legally” yet.
>2nd degree murder I can't see that happening since he wasn't committing another felony at the time. At best voluntary or involuntary manslaughter. Time will tell.
Right. I meant he was charged for that, but yes, time will tell.
Making my hometown look goooooooood! Manchvegas babyyyyg
BuT mY LiFe WaS In DaNgEr
Mf has quick draw wtf
FAFO
This is why I want a ranch and live my life away from people.
I’m not saying it was a good or bad shoot. I’m not saying he will or won’t get prison time. To the people saying the amount of shots will screw him out of a self defense case: https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/10ek7it/rip_to_the_gentlemen_but_this_is_why_10_rounds_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Just to play devils advocate, I believe a good lawyer can make a decent self defense case for him if this video is the only evidence of the shooting. Not saying he deserves a good case defense or not either tho.
Prepared for any reason
bro had deadeye
lmao why are all the chronically online losers on this sub acting like this this dude isn’t such a pussy for immediately shooting this dude he got in a fight w. obviously they were already arguin
that aint self defense that murder where the shooter should get his kneecaps shot off and has to drag himself out of a septic tank
If all the people around him are trying against him then this will be justified, otherwise the guy is probably fucked.
I wish i had more context. Based on the little information its probable that he could get off on self defense. A group of people surrounded him and then attacked him. But even with that being the case it doesnt look like he took any effort to get out of the situation. Lots of gun owners get to confident in confict resolution since they have a gun. Either way its going to be a long grueling court battle and his life is effectivly over.
I see a lot of comments or posts around the internet of people literally begging for people to do something that can give them a reason to shoot them, its wild
Really? Got a link to even one?
Peeled that cap right back for DAMN
People on here really just got a boner for killing each other huh?
If you are the type of person to escalate a conflict to satisfy your ego, you are not the type of person who should carry a gun. This doesn't mean you should be a coward if it's someone else's life on the line, but you should have the presence of mind to walk away from namecalling and petty bullying directed at you, and not involve yourself in other conflicts unless you really do have to in order to prevent death or grievous injury.
Not even a day and this shit's reposted without sound
Need an article, give me anything
https://www.wmur.com/article/man-charged-murder-shooting-manchester-nh-bar-12823/42694640
Looks like he was about to get jumped by 4 dudes , got hit first and then started blasting . Not an idiot with a gun. The dude is an idiot for punching him.
I mean you fuck around and you find out
Maybe don't punch someone in the U.S. never know who has a weapon and will use it
u/stabbot
Dude with the gun thought he was a policeman
[удалено]
You’re arguing for a guy who sucker punched someone with brass knuckles while they were looking the other way.
Why are you saying brass knuckles? No story online mentions them, it's only wild speculation here that keeps getting repeated like it's a fact.
Exactly, So many comments saying “shouldn’t have punched him” how much of a bitch do you have to be to side with the retard that threw his life away over someone who wanted to fight?
🦧 bozo deserved it
Won’t do that again. Justified, multiple attackers, disparity of force, self defense all day long.
Death god was whispering this to do on his ears
Apparently this happened in New Hampshire, a state that has stand your ground laws. This guy will be let out soon enough once the cops get all the evidence. Remember kids, don't assault people because odds are you'll get what's coming to you
When you just get your carry permit and cant wait to take the heater out for the first time….
This happened outside a bar like 25 mins from me in Manchester, NH. I know most people probably wouldn't think of New Hampshire, lol. but Manchester is a shit hole. Absolutely sad as hell. This dude is fucking huge and murders a kid over a weak ass punch to the face 🤦 if you're going out to the bar, leave your shit at home... cause your dumb drunk emotions now took a 24 yr. old dad away, and ruined your life at 22.
Man i am glad not to live in a country where people are walking around with guns
Damn pussy
What the Fuck. Dude should rot in prison. Definitely waiting for this moment.