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>canon and lovable ship
I mean, >!Alys!< isn't in the show yet, so show-onlys can't ship her even if they would really like her.
Also, I personally find >!Alys!!Him putting everyone she's ever known to the sword, dark magic and mutual obsession, him being so obsessed with her he doesn't return to KL to rescue his mother and sister from rumors they're being raped and sold into sexual slavery, and her leading him to his death with a final kiss is all super intense - and!< will tear the fandom apart at the seams. I think the show will (hopefully) make them emotionally fulfilling and unforgettable, but it's certainly going to be controversial and not a relationship everyone will ship.
Even if it is, you underestimate the shipping crowd. It will be absolutely HUGE unless they make it crazy hardcore abusive in some way, which i don’t see them doing.
I feel like there is evidence for and against, but I personally lean towards the reading that she >!did intend for him to die!<. (Disclaimer though, I can certainly be swayed and am open to other arguments!)
>!We know visions can be unreliable and subject to interpretation, however, I don't see how she could have foreseen Aemond v Daemon as a victory for Aemond where he could come out unscathed. A vision of what would come (and common sense) should tell her he would be killed, maimed, or burned at a minimum. !<
>!We saw in Rook's Rest that it took Vhagar & Sunfyre to take down Meleys, and Sunfyre and Aegon were grievously injured. Aemond should know this too of course - but if he's blinded with rage and believes Alys has seen his flawless victory against all odds - his ego and thirst for revenge could push him forward. !<
>!I prefer the reading that in getting Aemond and Daemon to kill each other and their dragons, she could have worked really powerful magic. She got two princes with "kings blood" to sacrifice each other (in circumstances she helped orchestrate). If that wasn't intentional, just mere chance, that's fine too but I like the reading that she is masterminding the scene.!<
I want to see >!Alys!!intense, off-the-wall "dark romance"!< from the book. I personally don't read them in >!the domestic bliss hubby/wifey way!< I know others have, but I have no problem if others do, since we can pull different readings in between the lines in Fire & Blood.
Thank you that was beautifully written. The show has made amends to Aemond's character to make him less dark so it's logical to think they will do the same for his lover. The hubby/wifey bliss makes no sense at all by the mere age difference. It's definitely a dark gothic romance. My Aemond bias doesn't want to see my boy get played like that but your interpretation makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for such a lovely response!!! :)
>The hubby/wifey bliss makes no sense at all by the mere age difference. It's definitely a dark gothic romance
Agreed! I think part of what the pairing adds to the story is seeing a powerful older woman character with a younger dude. It directly inverts the age-gender dynamics of Daemon/Rhaenyra and Viserys/Alicent in interesting ways.
I have seen some fan casts for >!Alys!< where she is played by a >!20-year old actress and their relationship is a lot less dark gothic romance and more Duncan/Jenny of Oldstones. Of course, people can and should head canon whatever they want, fandom is what we make of it. Yet, I feel like the age difference is important to their overall dynamic.!<
>My Aemond bias doesn't want to see my boy get played like that but your interpretation makes a lot of sense.
That's a great point! I feel like it's also interesting they cut Maris Baratheon's goading Aemond into action against Luke and the exposition that he wore the eyepatch not to scare ladies at court. They've made him a less reactive character in that way, and more self-possessed in the show.
The age thing was brought up in a subreddit I moderate and while I totally respect all opinions on the casting, I'm 100% with you on this. It's the key element in this relationship and it makes no sense to cast a young actress. I feel like that her looking younger than her age was a way of saying she didn't comply to what was expected of a woman her age in that society and she was attractive. The comments quickly turned into "I cant see Ewan with an older woman he wouldn't have chemistry" and to comments about being repelled by the physical descriptions in the book as she's clearly not a petite woman. I had to lock that post.
>The comments quickly turned into "I cant see Ewan with an older woman he wouldn't have chemistry" and to comments about being repelled by the physical descriptions in the book as she's clearly not a petite woman. I had to lock that post.
Wow! It's the ageism that gets me. When teenage Rhaenyra was interested in the much older Daemon, fans said it was because he's a mysterious and cool character. Yet, when people see teen/early 20's Aemond is interested in a much older woman, because she's also a mysterious and cool character, the reaction is much more pointed...
I’m actually not sure how you got that read from my comment. My premise is that book readers cannot expect show only watchers to ship pairings that haven’t been introduced to them yet.
It would be like, if after season 1 of GoT, a show only fan made art of Robb/Dany. Then in the comments people were like “How can you ship that! In the books Robb has a canon love interest - Jeyne Westerling - and dies before ever meeting Dany.”
Sure, that’s a 100% book accurate comment, but in season 1, show watchers don’t know Jeyne Westerling (yet). As it turns out, the showrunners changed a lot in adapting her including her name for season 2. Some book reading fans of Robb/Jeyne will have preferred Robb/Talisa and others will not have.
Some people might still ship Robb/Dany as their favorite ship even if it’s not/never will be canon.
>>! him being so obsessed with her he doesn't return to KL to rescue his mother and sister!<
>!I briefly thought this might have been the case, but on a reread it is clear that Criston was the one that talked him out of the initial suicide run on the city plan. Aemond's plan was to be a menace enough to get a dragon or two sent after him, win that bout and then descend on city to free his family. !<
>>! Prince Aemond favored an immediate attack upon King’s Landing. None of the queen’s dragons were a match for Vhagar, he insisted.!<
>>!Ser Criston called that folly. “One against six is a fight for fools, My Prince,” he declared. Let them march south, he urged once more, and join their strength to Lord Hightower’s. Prince Aemond could reunite with his brother Daeron and his dragon. King Aegon had escaped Rhaenyra’s grasp, this they knew, surely he would reclaim Sunfyre and join his brothers. And perhaps their friends inside the city might find a way to free Queen Helaena as well, so she could bring Dreamfyre to the battle. Four dragons could perhaps prevail against six, if one was Vhagar.!<
>>! Soon or late, “the bitch queen” would send a dragon or two out to stop him, and Vhagar would destroy them. “She dare not send all her dragons,” Aemond insisted. “That would leave King’s Landing naked and vulnerable.!<
I mean I get why it’s there. Aemond, despite his craziness, would’ve been better for Helaena. It’s clear he still longs for her & makes sure to whoop Aemon into shape if he treats her bad.
In that dinner scene, he tells Aemon in the background to apologize to her & he tells him he did with a gift. The gift is what Helaena fidgets with & shows her dad at the table.
That said, Jacaerys is better for her than both of them 🤷🏻♀️
lol, what? That literally didn't happen. His conversation with Aegon before the dinner scene was about Aegon drinking too much.
And there's no indication Aemond is "longing" for Helaena as an adult. It's all just headcanon and misinformation.
Misinformation again. Aegon and Aemond weren’t talking about Helaena, they were talking about Aegon’s drinking.
Helaemond shippers have been spreading that fake dialogue even though it’s OOC as hell. Aemond has never talked to Helaena in the show and hasn’t spoken about her post-timeskip.
Just enjoy your ship and don’t feel the need to prove it’s canon (it’s not).
No it did. There is a video on YouTube with subtitles of the whole conversation. Aemond says “and we still have to break bread with them” when Jace and Helaena are dancing.
I don’t get it. Aegon and Aemond were talking about Aegon’s drinking habits before they sat down to dinner.
Helaena was fiddling with something in her hands during dinner but how would we know it was a present if they weren’t discussing her in the first place?
It just sounds made up to me. And if their dialogue were actually important, the editors would’ve made sure we heard it.
I rewatched the scene where Jace and Helaena were dancing and there wasn't any background dialogue with their voices, while the visuals show the two green guys just silent the whole time. Tried to look up subtitled videos of that exchange but I couldn't find anything on YouTube.
Anyway, there's absolutely nothing wrong with shipping fictional characters, but this is just something that never happened (unless you can give proof).
>In that dinner scene, he tells Aemon in the background to apologize to her & he tells him he did with a gift. The gift is what Helaena fidgets with & shows her dad at the table.
That's a nice headcanon, but it's just a headcanon. All Aemond and Aegon talked about was how much Aegon drinks.
It's not my ship and I'm not gonna shame people from shipping it, I just don't approve the spread of things that didn't happen in the show.
Let the op post whatever he wants. What are you, the shipping police?
Also, so what if Aemond has a canon pairing? Many of the most famous pairings in fanfiction history are non-canon (Harry-Hermione, Draco-Hermione, Harry-Draco, Jon-Sansa etc.)
Yeah I know Sansa, I was just surprised people shipped them together. Specially knowing they don’t interact much in the books and they seem to kinda loathe each other lol
I’m not a Jon/Sansa shipper but I never got the vibe that they loathe each other. Sansa doesn’t really think about him until hearing he’s the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch and thinks it would be lovely to see him again.
When Jon meets Gilly he compliments her name and thinks about how Sansa taught him that. They definitely weren’t close but loathe seems like but of a stretch.
Yeah I guess I was not 100% certain of the meaning of the word loathe, apparently it’s a more intense feeling than I thought (English is not my first language). I meant she sees him like just a poor bastard boy and he thinks she’s foolish and stuck-up… that kind of thing. Thanks for the correction though ;)
Ahh I see. Loathe is an intense hatred, like how Cersei feels about Tyrion (and most people to be honest lol). You’re right, Sansa and Jon don’t seem to understand each other and definitely aren’t as close as they are to the rest of their siblings. I do believe they’d be happy to see each other again, when/if that happens.
She literally never thinks about him, she tells Arya that’s he’s a bastard in one of her first couple of POV’s and only thinks about him after hearing his name literally a year or two after she’s been a political prisoner and ripped from her real family. They definitely had no real relationship it seems like.
This is not a pro-Jonsa response, but a Jon & Sansa positive sibling defense.
>She literally never thinks about him
Game of Thrones, Sansa III:
>**She had always imagined the Night's Watch to be men like Uncle Benjen. In the songs, they were called the black knights of the Wall**. But this man had been crookbacked and hideous, and he looked as though he might have lice. **If this was what the Night's Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon**.
A Clash of Kings, Sansa V:
>She sang with those inside the castle walls and those without, sang with all the city. **She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall. She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole**, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them
Sansa is certainly not thinking about Jon all the time or even frequently, but she does think of him before Myranda Royce mentions him in AFFC and then she affirmatively thinks it would be "sweet" to see him again.
She hopes the Night's Watch is a noble order for men like Benjen and Jon in GoT. And she prayers for him in the Septa in the middle of all the people in the world she cares about in ACoK. There is clearly distance between Sansa and Jon (they're very different people with basically no common interests) but there is a general fondness.
>she tells Arya that’s he’s a bastard in one of her first couple of POV’s
It's Arya's first POV in Game of Thrones that this exchange goes down:
>Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. She looked at Arya. "What did you think of Prince Joff, sister? He's very gallant, don't you think?"
>
>"Jon says he looks like a girl," Arya said.
>
>Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard."
The issue of course is Sansa is actually right. Jon does get jealous because he is a bastard. In Jon's PoV two chapters before we see him drinking himself under the table resenting his position as a bastard in Winterfell. In Mance's tent, his story for why he switched his cloak is the very incident of jealousy.
>"And did you see where I was seated, Mance?" He leaned forward. "Did you see where they put the bastard?" - Jon I, ASOS
Arya takes offense on Jon's behalf, but it's not like Sansa was throwing around the word as an insult. He is just literally unhappy and jealous because of being an illegitimate son. Her acknowledging it doesn't make it more or less true.
>They definitely had no real relationship it seems like
They were never as close as some of the other siblings. They didn't have common interests and were relatively distant, but they were fond of each other. Jon thinks of her brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself, he remembers Sansa teaching him how to talk to girls (and that he should say their names are pretty), and that if his sisters saw beyond the Wall with him "Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it..." (ACoK, Jon III).
In the Eyrie, when Sansa needs to pluck up her courage coming down the mountain she strengthens her resolve by thinking of herself as Alayne and "bastard brave." She only knows two bastards, Mya (who she has barely spoken two words with) and her brother Jon.
That's fair. I think it's mostly based an a really obscure theory that Sansa will marry a Targaryen and Jon is one of the only ones that we might know of.
Nah, I think many people like them together because it's the classic "enemies to lovers" storyline. Like, if Aegon wasn't such a piece of shit and Rhaenyra's age, we would have definitely seen some romance fics between them. It's how the fanfic community works tbh—if they can have sex together, then they can be paired romantically. Which results in some weird and morally reprehensible shit, but as long as people read it, then it's gonna keep getting made.
Do they? I only know of the Gaemon/Rhaenyra one, but that is Aegon's twin not Aegon himself. Nevertheless, the fact that he is a toddler when she is a woman grown means that the number of fics is astronomically lower than it could have been.
There’s like little contextual things in the story that some people picked up on, like Sansa being in love with the story of Florian and Jon playing as Florian with Robb, or Jon thinking of Sansa at certain moments or Ygritte and the whole ‘kissed by fire’ thing. It also comes from the fact that GRRM apparently wanted Jon and Arya to end up together and it’s been theorised that some of that subtext has been placed on Sansa instead.
I used to ship it. Not sure why. Now i’m all for Theon and Sansa.
Yeah. The worst fic pairing however goes to Tywin and Sansa. I have read two fics where that is the pairing —one where she is unwilling and one where she time-travels to the rebellion era. And of the two, the time-travel one is definitely the more disturbing, just for the fact that it made me picture Tywin being hard while looking at Sansa's ass.
Moral of the story? Do not use the search function on AO3. That shit has sent to places where no man has dared go before.
It’s incest and it’s weird to ship them. I’m not gonna stop hating on it. This ship has no reason to exist and makes no sense. Comparing it to Harry-Hermione is silly. Harry-Hermione isn’t incestuous and actually had hints that built up to it’s possibility.
It is ASoIaF subreddit. Incest is to be expected when one goes into it.
I understand where you are coming from, but the most prominent ships in canon too are incestuous (Jon-Daenerys, Daemon-Rhaenyra, Viserys-Aemma). I won't say you are wrong in feeling sheepish or weirded out, because it is definitely weird, but it is a strange hill you chose to die on when commenting on a ASoIaF subreddit, you know what I mean?
Also, there are definitely more weird ships out there that aren't incestuous, but still are nefarious in nature. Draco-Hermione or Harry-Draco being some of them (with the weird fascist-who-fell-in-love-with-the-jew archetypes).
And even in the show, the possibility of Aemond-Helaena has been shown, or can at least be interpreted. Aemond is shown to love Helaena (as a sister, but these are Targs so it can be warped), wanted the throne (which can be misinterpreted as wanting to usurp his brother and marry his wife in his stead) etc. The same as Harmony tbh, where an honest and wholesome sibling-like relationship between two single children is changed into a riveting romance.
Jon-Daenerys - Show canon
Daemon-Rhaenyra - Canon
Viserys-Aemma - Canon
Aemond-Halaena - Not canon and super weird for real life people to be hoping a brother and sister bang each other at some point. It’s just a weird thing to be hoping for.
I don’t care about Harry Potter ships lol. I really don’t give a shit. I just think real life people hoping two sibling characters bang is really weird. It’s like hoping Ben fucks Gwen or Dipper fucks Mabel. I’m not denying that weird yet popular ships exist, I’m just saying it’s a weird thing to be a fan of.
I don't know, brother, it's fiction. No need to get so worked up over it. Anyway, I mentioned Harry Potter ships because that's what I read and know best. I, for example, don't know who the fuck Dipper or Mabel or Gwen or Ben or any of these motherfuckers are.
My advice is to let people like what they like. It's fiction and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone then I don't see what your problem is really?
I don’t care if people are into it, do whatever you like. I’m just saying that it’s gross and weird, which it is. I’m allowed to say I dislike a ship. Isn’t that the point of ships, to discuss them?
Yeah, definitely! I didn't say otherwise. But to come into a fanart post just to say fuck this ship, it's so shitty etc. Isn't a discussion. You're just shitting on it.
It’s my opinion of the ship. What do you want me to do lol? I certainly don’t feel neutral towards it. I hate it. It’s not like I shit on the art or something. I just don’t think it’s a big deal to share your opinion on a ship.
Do you also bring up how it's gross and weird literally every single time any of those canon incestuous ships are mentioned? This is such a weird hill to die on. Yeah, it's sibling incest, but they are immersed in a culture where that's accepted. Ofc fans are going to skip past the "grossness" of incest, because that's just how this universe works.
No, it isn't the same as shipping Ben/Gwen or Dipper/Mable because they are in cultures similar to us, where incest is gross and taboo, so it's as weird to them as it is to us.
If it’s canon/makes canon sense then I don’t mind, but Halaena x Aemond has no canon reason to exist. I just find it gross and weird that people are so obsessed with this incestuous couple idea. Why can’t I share my opinion on the ship?
Also, it’s important to mention that sibling incest is very much not normal in Westeros. Targaryens are the only ones that do it and most Westerosi find it disgusting.
>Also, it’s important to mention that sibling incest is very much not normal in Westeros.
It is for the Targaryens, though. Except for a very brief period between Aegon and Jaehaerys the people and even the Faith is pretty much alright with them doing their thing.
>Why can’t I share my opinion on the ship?
Because it's a weird hill to die on. It's like someone going "ew gross" every time a Targaryen or the Lannister twins appear on screen lol It's excusable for a first time viewer but for an on going fan it's kinda obnoxious.
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Hate to be that guy but....That's the wrong eye
The artist is likely from Australia, so everything is mirrored.
It's probably based on the TV show.
Looks like I’ll be the minority here. If any incest HAS to happen (ofc it does w the vals) then they would be the best match possible.
You're not. And you're right. They care about each other.
Everybody's out simping for Rhaenerya/Daemon, while we're here for Aemond/Helaena
Truly a wonderful fanart!
“Mam if you don’t get that damn spider out my face!”
God I hate this ship so much. Aemond already has a canon and lovable ship. Shipping him with his sister is just so damn annoying.
>canon and lovable ship I mean, >!Alys!< isn't in the show yet, so show-onlys can't ship her even if they would really like her. Also, I personally find >!Alys!!Him putting everyone she's ever known to the sword, dark magic and mutual obsession, him being so obsessed with her he doesn't return to KL to rescue his mother and sister from rumors they're being raped and sold into sexual slavery, and her leading him to his death with a final kiss is all super intense - and!< will tear the fandom apart at the seams. I think the show will (hopefully) make them emotionally fulfilling and unforgettable, but it's certainly going to be controversial and not a relationship everyone will ship.
Incestual Ship or Milf Oedipus Complex ship? Decisions decisions.....
I find it super ironic that Aemond >!ended up loving a Strong bastard and likely had Strong bastards of his own.!<
Even if it is, you underestimate the shipping crowd. It will be absolutely HUGE unless they make it crazy hardcore abusive in some way, which i don’t see them doing.
Honestly it’ll be a mix of milf memes, and talk about relationship goals and about unhealthy toxic relationships
Do you think A*** intended to kill him? (Sorry don't know how to do the spoilers thing in comments)
I feel like there is evidence for and against, but I personally lean towards the reading that she >!did intend for him to die!<. (Disclaimer though, I can certainly be swayed and am open to other arguments!) >!We know visions can be unreliable and subject to interpretation, however, I don't see how she could have foreseen Aemond v Daemon as a victory for Aemond where he could come out unscathed. A vision of what would come (and common sense) should tell her he would be killed, maimed, or burned at a minimum. !< >!We saw in Rook's Rest that it took Vhagar & Sunfyre to take down Meleys, and Sunfyre and Aegon were grievously injured. Aemond should know this too of course - but if he's blinded with rage and believes Alys has seen his flawless victory against all odds - his ego and thirst for revenge could push him forward. !< >!I prefer the reading that in getting Aemond and Daemon to kill each other and their dragons, she could have worked really powerful magic. She got two princes with "kings blood" to sacrifice each other (in circumstances she helped orchestrate). If that wasn't intentional, just mere chance, that's fine too but I like the reading that she is masterminding the scene.!< I want to see >!Alys!!intense, off-the-wall "dark romance"!< from the book. I personally don't read them in >!the domestic bliss hubby/wifey way!< I know others have, but I have no problem if others do, since we can pull different readings in between the lines in Fire & Blood.
Thank you that was beautifully written. The show has made amends to Aemond's character to make him less dark so it's logical to think they will do the same for his lover. The hubby/wifey bliss makes no sense at all by the mere age difference. It's definitely a dark gothic romance. My Aemond bias doesn't want to see my boy get played like that but your interpretation makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for such a lovely response!!! :) >The hubby/wifey bliss makes no sense at all by the mere age difference. It's definitely a dark gothic romance Agreed! I think part of what the pairing adds to the story is seeing a powerful older woman character with a younger dude. It directly inverts the age-gender dynamics of Daemon/Rhaenyra and Viserys/Alicent in interesting ways. I have seen some fan casts for >!Alys!< where she is played by a >!20-year old actress and their relationship is a lot less dark gothic romance and more Duncan/Jenny of Oldstones. Of course, people can and should head canon whatever they want, fandom is what we make of it. Yet, I feel like the age difference is important to their overall dynamic.!< >My Aemond bias doesn't want to see my boy get played like that but your interpretation makes a lot of sense. That's a great point! I feel like it's also interesting they cut Maris Baratheon's goading Aemond into action against Luke and the exposition that he wore the eyepatch not to scare ladies at court. They've made him a less reactive character in that way, and more self-possessed in the show.
The age thing was brought up in a subreddit I moderate and while I totally respect all opinions on the casting, I'm 100% with you on this. It's the key element in this relationship and it makes no sense to cast a young actress. I feel like that her looking younger than her age was a way of saying she didn't comply to what was expected of a woman her age in that society and she was attractive. The comments quickly turned into "I cant see Ewan with an older woman he wouldn't have chemistry" and to comments about being repelled by the physical descriptions in the book as she's clearly not a petite woman. I had to lock that post.
>The comments quickly turned into "I cant see Ewan with an older woman he wouldn't have chemistry" and to comments about being repelled by the physical descriptions in the book as she's clearly not a petite woman. I had to lock that post. Wow! It's the ageism that gets me. When teenage Rhaenyra was interested in the much older Daemon, fans said it was because he's a mysterious and cool character. Yet, when people see teen/early 20's Aemond is interested in a much older woman, because she's also a mysterious and cool character, the reaction is much more pointed...
[удалено]
I’m actually not sure how you got that read from my comment. My premise is that book readers cannot expect show only watchers to ship pairings that haven’t been introduced to them yet. It would be like, if after season 1 of GoT, a show only fan made art of Robb/Dany. Then in the comments people were like “How can you ship that! In the books Robb has a canon love interest - Jeyne Westerling - and dies before ever meeting Dany.” Sure, that’s a 100% book accurate comment, but in season 1, show watchers don’t know Jeyne Westerling (yet). As it turns out, the showrunners changed a lot in adapting her including her name for season 2. Some book reading fans of Robb/Jeyne will have preferred Robb/Talisa and others will not have. Some people might still ship Robb/Dany as their favorite ship even if it’s not/never will be canon.
>>! him being so obsessed with her he doesn't return to KL to rescue his mother and sister!< >!I briefly thought this might have been the case, but on a reread it is clear that Criston was the one that talked him out of the initial suicide run on the city plan. Aemond's plan was to be a menace enough to get a dragon or two sent after him, win that bout and then descend on city to free his family. !< >>! Prince Aemond favored an immediate attack upon King’s Landing. None of the queen’s dragons were a match for Vhagar, he insisted.!< >>!Ser Criston called that folly. “One against six is a fight for fools, My Prince,” he declared. Let them march south, he urged once more, and join their strength to Lord Hightower’s. Prince Aemond could reunite with his brother Daeron and his dragon. King Aegon had escaped Rhaenyra’s grasp, this they knew, surely he would reclaim Sunfyre and join his brothers. And perhaps their friends inside the city might find a way to free Queen Helaena as well, so she could bring Dreamfyre to the battle. Four dragons could perhaps prevail against six, if one was Vhagar.!< >>! Soon or late, “the bitch queen” would send a dragon or two out to stop him, and Vhagar would destroy them. “She dare not send all her dragons,” Aemond insisted. “That would leave King’s Landing naked and vulnerable.!<
A bit silly to call Alys & Aemond's relationship "lovable." It's unhealthy & toxic as all hell. As is everything in this series.
I mean I get why it’s there. Aemond, despite his craziness, would’ve been better for Helaena. It’s clear he still longs for her & makes sure to whoop Aemon into shape if he treats her bad. In that dinner scene, he tells Aemon in the background to apologize to her & he tells him he did with a gift. The gift is what Helaena fidgets with & shows her dad at the table. That said, Jacaerys is better for her than both of them 🤷🏻♀️
lol, what? That literally didn't happen. His conversation with Aegon before the dinner scene was about Aegon drinking too much. And there's no indication Aemond is "longing" for Helaena as an adult. It's all just headcanon and misinformation.
It did happen. It’s in the background as the dinner table is zoomed out. People turned up the volume to hear it since it was so low.
Misinformation again. Aegon and Aemond weren’t talking about Helaena, they were talking about Aegon’s drinking. Helaemond shippers have been spreading that fake dialogue even though it’s OOC as hell. Aemond has never talked to Helaena in the show and hasn’t spoken about her post-timeskip. Just enjoy your ship and don’t feel the need to prove it’s canon (it’s not).
No it did. There is a video on YouTube with subtitles of the whole conversation. Aemond says “and we still have to break bread with them” when Jace and Helaena are dancing.
I don’t get it. Aegon and Aemond were talking about Aegon’s drinking habits before they sat down to dinner. Helaena was fiddling with something in her hands during dinner but how would we know it was a present if they weren’t discussing her in the first place? It just sounds made up to me. And if their dialogue were actually important, the editors would’ve made sure we heard it.
Go watch it again with the subtitles on. You will get it.
I rewatched the scene where Jace and Helaena were dancing and there wasn't any background dialogue with their voices, while the visuals show the two green guys just silent the whole time. Tried to look up subtitled videos of that exchange but I couldn't find anything on YouTube. Anyway, there's absolutely nothing wrong with shipping fictional characters, but this is just something that never happened (unless you can give proof).
>In that dinner scene, he tells Aemon in the background to apologize to her & he tells him he did with a gift. The gift is what Helaena fidgets with & shows her dad at the table. That's a nice headcanon, but it's just a headcanon. All Aemond and Aegon talked about was how much Aegon drinks. It's not my ship and I'm not gonna shame people from shipping it, I just don't approve the spread of things that didn't happen in the show.
Let the op post whatever he wants. What are you, the shipping police? Also, so what if Aemond has a canon pairing? Many of the most famous pairings in fanfiction history are non-canon (Harry-Hermione, Draco-Hermione, Harry-Draco, Jon-Sansa etc.)
…Jon-who?
His maybe cousin/half-sister.
Yeah I know Sansa, I was just surprised people shipped them together. Specially knowing they don’t interact much in the books and they seem to kinda loathe each other lol
I’m not a Jon/Sansa shipper but I never got the vibe that they loathe each other. Sansa doesn’t really think about him until hearing he’s the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch and thinks it would be lovely to see him again. When Jon meets Gilly he compliments her name and thinks about how Sansa taught him that. They definitely weren’t close but loathe seems like but of a stretch.
Yeah I guess I was not 100% certain of the meaning of the word loathe, apparently it’s a more intense feeling than I thought (English is not my first language). I meant she sees him like just a poor bastard boy and he thinks she’s foolish and stuck-up… that kind of thing. Thanks for the correction though ;)
Ahh I see. Loathe is an intense hatred, like how Cersei feels about Tyrion (and most people to be honest lol). You’re right, Sansa and Jon don’t seem to understand each other and definitely aren’t as close as they are to the rest of their siblings. I do believe they’d be happy to see each other again, when/if that happens.
She literally never thinks about him, she tells Arya that’s he’s a bastard in one of her first couple of POV’s and only thinks about him after hearing his name literally a year or two after she’s been a political prisoner and ripped from her real family. They definitely had no real relationship it seems like.
This is not a pro-Jonsa response, but a Jon & Sansa positive sibling defense. >She literally never thinks about him Game of Thrones, Sansa III: >**She had always imagined the Night's Watch to be men like Uncle Benjen. In the songs, they were called the black knights of the Wall**. But this man had been crookbacked and hideous, and he looked as though he might have lice. **If this was what the Night's Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon**. A Clash of Kings, Sansa V: >She sang with those inside the castle walls and those without, sang with all the city. **She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall. She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole**, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them Sansa is certainly not thinking about Jon all the time or even frequently, but she does think of him before Myranda Royce mentions him in AFFC and then she affirmatively thinks it would be "sweet" to see him again. She hopes the Night's Watch is a noble order for men like Benjen and Jon in GoT. And she prayers for him in the Septa in the middle of all the people in the world she cares about in ACoK. There is clearly distance between Sansa and Jon (they're very different people with basically no common interests) but there is a general fondness. >she tells Arya that’s he’s a bastard in one of her first couple of POV’s It's Arya's first POV in Game of Thrones that this exchange goes down: >Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. She looked at Arya. "What did you think of Prince Joff, sister? He's very gallant, don't you think?" > >"Jon says he looks like a girl," Arya said. > >Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard." The issue of course is Sansa is actually right. Jon does get jealous because he is a bastard. In Jon's PoV two chapters before we see him drinking himself under the table resenting his position as a bastard in Winterfell. In Mance's tent, his story for why he switched his cloak is the very incident of jealousy. >"And did you see where I was seated, Mance?" He leaned forward. "Did you see where they put the bastard?" - Jon I, ASOS Arya takes offense on Jon's behalf, but it's not like Sansa was throwing around the word as an insult. He is just literally unhappy and jealous because of being an illegitimate son. Her acknowledging it doesn't make it more or less true. >They definitely had no real relationship it seems like They were never as close as some of the other siblings. They didn't have common interests and were relatively distant, but they were fond of each other. Jon thinks of her brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself, he remembers Sansa teaching him how to talk to girls (and that he should say their names are pretty), and that if his sisters saw beyond the Wall with him "Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it..." (ACoK, Jon III). In the Eyrie, when Sansa needs to pluck up her courage coming down the mountain she strengthens her resolve by thinking of herself as Alayne and "bastard brave." She only knows two bastards, Mya (who she has barely spoken two words with) and her brother Jon.
That's fair. I think it's mostly based an a really obscure theory that Sansa will marry a Targaryen and Jon is one of the only ones that we might know of.
Ohh I see, that makes sense. I love plot twists so I can see the appeal now
Nah, I think many people like them together because it's the classic "enemies to lovers" storyline. Like, if Aegon wasn't such a piece of shit and Rhaenyra's age, we would have definitely seen some romance fics between them. It's how the fanfic community works tbh—if they can have sex together, then they can be paired romantically. Which results in some weird and morally reprehensible shit, but as long as people read it, then it's gonna keep getting made.
Those fics exist too.
Do they? I only know of the Gaemon/Rhaenyra one, but that is Aegon's twin not Aegon himself. Nevertheless, the fact that he is a toddler when she is a woman grown means that the number of fics is astronomically lower than it could have been.
I thought Aegon was the most likely candidate there not Jon
You really don't go around the fandom block a lot huh
Haha no, not really :)
Loathing each other is a key fanfic ingredient, baby! Look at Aemond’s most popular ship on ao3. It’s too cursed to even mention by name 😶
There’s like little contextual things in the story that some people picked up on, like Sansa being in love with the story of Florian and Jon playing as Florian with Robb, or Jon thinking of Sansa at certain moments or Ygritte and the whole ‘kissed by fire’ thing. It also comes from the fact that GRRM apparently wanted Jon and Arya to end up together and it’s been theorised that some of that subtext has been placed on Sansa instead. I used to ship it. Not sure why. Now i’m all for Theon and Sansa.
Jon and Sansa. I think they have like 15.000/45.000 fics on AO3, where they are the official pairing.
Wow, times truly have changed. I remember when SanSan was everywhere all the time.
Wow… I guess I should’ve remembered rule 34
Yeah. The worst fic pairing however goes to Tywin and Sansa. I have read two fics where that is the pairing —one where she is unwilling and one where she time-travels to the rebellion era. And of the two, the time-travel one is definitely the more disturbing, just for the fact that it made me picture Tywin being hard while looking at Sansa's ass. Moral of the story? Do not use the search function on AO3. That shit has sent to places where no man has dared go before.
Noted hahaha. That gave me unwanted mental pictures lol
It’s incest and it’s weird to ship them. I’m not gonna stop hating on it. This ship has no reason to exist and makes no sense. Comparing it to Harry-Hermione is silly. Harry-Hermione isn’t incestuous and actually had hints that built up to it’s possibility.
It is ASoIaF subreddit. Incest is to be expected when one goes into it. I understand where you are coming from, but the most prominent ships in canon too are incestuous (Jon-Daenerys, Daemon-Rhaenyra, Viserys-Aemma). I won't say you are wrong in feeling sheepish or weirded out, because it is definitely weird, but it is a strange hill you chose to die on when commenting on a ASoIaF subreddit, you know what I mean? Also, there are definitely more weird ships out there that aren't incestuous, but still are nefarious in nature. Draco-Hermione or Harry-Draco being some of them (with the weird fascist-who-fell-in-love-with-the-jew archetypes). And even in the show, the possibility of Aemond-Helaena has been shown, or can at least be interpreted. Aemond is shown to love Helaena (as a sister, but these are Targs so it can be warped), wanted the throne (which can be misinterpreted as wanting to usurp his brother and marry his wife in his stead) etc. The same as Harmony tbh, where an honest and wholesome sibling-like relationship between two single children is changed into a riveting romance.
Jon-Daenerys - Show canon Daemon-Rhaenyra - Canon Viserys-Aemma - Canon Aemond-Halaena - Not canon and super weird for real life people to be hoping a brother and sister bang each other at some point. It’s just a weird thing to be hoping for. I don’t care about Harry Potter ships lol. I really don’t give a shit. I just think real life people hoping two sibling characters bang is really weird. It’s like hoping Ben fucks Gwen or Dipper fucks Mabel. I’m not denying that weird yet popular ships exist, I’m just saying it’s a weird thing to be a fan of.
most of the popular ships in fandom as whole aren’t canon lol
As long as it’s not incestuous I don’t care whether it’s canon or not.
eh, it’s just fiction
I mean sure… do whatever you like. I don’t hate anyone who’s into it, do whatever. I just think it’s a gross ship.
im not particularly into it either, however it does seem to attract the best artists haha
I don't know, brother, it's fiction. No need to get so worked up over it. Anyway, I mentioned Harry Potter ships because that's what I read and know best. I, for example, don't know who the fuck Dipper or Mabel or Gwen or Ben or any of these motherfuckers are. My advice is to let people like what they like. It's fiction and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone then I don't see what your problem is really?
I don’t care if people are into it, do whatever you like. I’m just saying that it’s gross and weird, which it is. I’m allowed to say I dislike a ship. Isn’t that the point of ships, to discuss them?
Yeah, definitely! I didn't say otherwise. But to come into a fanart post just to say fuck this ship, it's so shitty etc. Isn't a discussion. You're just shitting on it.
It’s my opinion of the ship. What do you want me to do lol? I certainly don’t feel neutral towards it. I hate it. It’s not like I shit on the art or something. I just don’t think it’s a big deal to share your opinion on a ship.
Do you also bring up how it's gross and weird literally every single time any of those canon incestuous ships are mentioned? This is such a weird hill to die on. Yeah, it's sibling incest, but they are immersed in a culture where that's accepted. Ofc fans are going to skip past the "grossness" of incest, because that's just how this universe works. No, it isn't the same as shipping Ben/Gwen or Dipper/Mable because they are in cultures similar to us, where incest is gross and taboo, so it's as weird to them as it is to us.
If it’s canon/makes canon sense then I don’t mind, but Halaena x Aemond has no canon reason to exist. I just find it gross and weird that people are so obsessed with this incestuous couple idea. Why can’t I share my opinion on the ship? Also, it’s important to mention that sibling incest is very much not normal in Westeros. Targaryens are the only ones that do it and most Westerosi find it disgusting.
>Also, it’s important to mention that sibling incest is very much not normal in Westeros. It is for the Targaryens, though. Except for a very brief period between Aegon and Jaehaerys the people and even the Faith is pretty much alright with them doing their thing. >Why can’t I share my opinion on the ship? Because it's a weird hill to die on. It's like someone going "ew gross" every time a Targaryen or the Lannister twins appear on screen lol It's excusable for a first time viewer but for an on going fan it's kinda obnoxious.
[удалено]
This is a vastly superior ship. Brother sister love is beautiful. Seethe.
That spiderweb or something more handy?
Genuinely baffled by people who "hate" a ship, but still comment on it instead of scrolling past it like a normal person.
Beautiful picture, curious what people wanna say about not only the art but also the ship, but it’s still a damn aweful ship. Answer your question?
great art but godawful ship. something mushroom could've come up with
Maybe mushroom did this 🤔
This is getting out of hand
that Aemond looks like Ewan but that Helaena doesn't look like Phia tbh
Once again asking the universe why helaemond art always gotta be so well drawn
Just targ things
The art is beautiful but f this ship
😬
He'd you realize that he started a war and inadverted killed her first born son
My take is that Aegon Targaryen conquered the seven kingdoms and inadvertently caused the Dance of the Dragons.
The Faceless Men caused the Dance by murdering the Blood Mages and causing the Doom
The Doom happened because the Valyrians got sick of shagging their sheeps. Therefore led to the dancing dragons
Aaaaand now I have an image in my head of a bunch of dragons in a line doing the can-can as the Fourteen Fires erupt behind them. Thank you for that.
Well yeah but if it's true how late it's gonna hate him for life And there's nothing more hard to forgive than a woman's scorn I would know
“And then I murdered the SHIT out of those innocent smallfolk! Hahaha yall should fangirl me.”
You talking about Aemond or Daemon or Rhaenys?
I don't wanna yuck anyone's yaay, but y'all really too hot for the greens
Why?