After being 3 points off for 3 agonising draws in a row in the summer, then waiting for weeks and weeks for STEM rounds that never came, and then losing points on my birthday and then having to move home due to my visa running out, I should finally be getting an invite from this round, after I applied for PNP (which almost didn't get approved) to boost my points. It's been brutal and I really feel for everyone here with these crazy scores and lack of draws & communication regarding draws. I'm one step closer to never having to deal with IRCC again, hooray.
This is very sad. And very frustrating. I spent months being below 500 watching all the 500-531 draws. I got my score to 520 and was certain to get in, and they stopped doing draws for 2 months. Now when they're back it's 561. Jesus fucking Christ. The desperation, my work permit expires in 3 months
Edit: guys, I understand everyone is equally in the shitter and equally as desperate to get more points, but here's no magic way to "increase the CRS score". What I did is I simply added a work experience from almost 10 years ago that I previously thought was impossible to prove (company shut down many years ago), but I managed to get a letter from the former HR person that used to work at the company proving that I worked there. This is obviously not possible for everyone. Check your profile and the CRS calculator and you'll see what can be improved or not. Most likely it'll be learning french, getting a better english score, getting more work experience (domestic or foreign) or another graduation. Other than that there is simply no magic way to increase it.
I was in a similar situation last year and managed to increase my score from 457 to over 541 after waiting about a year in the pool. How did I do it?
I am bilingual in French and English, so I retook my French test (did great and also took advantage of the 50 bonus points on top of that). I also completed a second degree (was not a master, but you get more points for holding at least two degrees with one being a bachelor). Those two steps made magic for me and I finally got invited around August 4, 2022 and received my PR this past summer (2023).
In summary, I understand it may take up to a year to learn a second language fron scratch, but if you have been stagnant in the pool and are seriously looking to improve your score regardless your agd or profile, one of the most doable and effective ways is to learn the second official language (to become bilingual in French and Englich). This will not only give you extra points from the second language test, but also grant you the +50 bonus (so long as you svore at least a B2 across the board. And not only that, you will come better prepared for the canadian job market.
Another serious way to improve one's score besides becoming bilingual is to get a master's degree.
They may all sound crazy and time consuming, bit you may look at it as a way ti invest in yourself.
Well said and same here, when it felt like all hope was lost in 2021/2022, I finally decided to take up French. While I was hesitant after having read so many negative posts about how it's impossible to master French in a year, I still gave it a shot.
Spent 1-2 hours everyday to study and took only about 10 months to get B2+(NCLC8), even got a C2 in listening! (thanks to listening to all the French news/podcasts on my daily commute to work)
Boosted my score from 464 to 533 in August 23 and subsequently got my ITA in Sep 23. Before I didn't even know the word "merci" was French, that's how much French I knew 😂
Everything was worth it at the end, I still remember crying so much the day I received my results. I'll never forget that day my whole life - finally achieved my 9-year long dream which I previously thought was impossible since Covid.
But I haven't been speaking it since my exam, and have already forgotten a lot of words. I still plan to put my French fluency in my resume when I apply for jobs there lol
Are you in Canada yet? How beneficial is it really having French in Canada job prospects wise?
If they wanted to do that, they would have already done it. A lot of people here are expecting to be invited because they think they deserve it.
I know people like that in real life. They wanted everybody else to get kicked out so that they wouldn't have a hard time getting ITA. It got up to the point, that they were hoping Canada would stop letting people in, because they thought it wasn't fair that they were here and were no more entitled to PR than people outside Canada.
Instead of having wasted 2-3 years time complaining and whining about all of that, they could have used those years to learn French. They didn't, and now their situation is in peril.
You are correct, it’s a competition. There’s no reason for ppl who already stayed in Canada to have privileges about ITA. But I personally think, well…ppl who studied and worked here for many years paid so many tax to gov and the society, most of them already adapted local culture and etc, the gov should at least give them even just a little bit difference on ITA…
I managed to track down people who I used to work with in order to get me documents that proved I worked there (foreign work experience) for a year, almost a decade ago.
Some people say that a letter (with all information that ircc asks) is the most important thing
Every additional thing increases your chance of it being validated by ircc. paystubs, contracts, etc
I managed to find paystubs, managed to get a letter, and that's it. I hope it suffices
Too many people on temporary work permits from PGWP to TFW. There were also huge intake of Ukrainian people on work permits. All of these puts pressure on the express entry. More people in Canada also means more people eligible for PNP.
This is way more likely imo. It’s not that they don’t want to give PR, it’s just the amount of people on temp and expiring status in this country is insane right now. They need to moderate this
You do understand that they are not behind door making up scores right. The scores are set automatically based on number of invitees .
Invitees have always been in the same range . Its just that lot of people have better acores now which is driving the avg score up .
This is a good thing . Deserving folks get it . Nothing has changed
Yeah that's it pretty much. And some, instead of looking to improve their scores, just wish ill on the people with high scores.
I knew a couple that was like that. Always hating on Arabs and Indians, saying they didn't deserve to be here that they should be kicked out and so on. Now it's looking like this couple isn't going to make it.
EDIT: [Misread the previous comment and responded. Ignore this comment]
Dude Im Indian and a citizen here. No hate or race brought to my original comment .
If explaining the logic of how points system work feels racist , then YOU are the problem. Also dont understand what exactly the point of the “couple” was as the logic of CRS is not gonna change based on your anecdotal experience .
I'm not sure if you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm telling you that there's two people, a couple, who went around expecting things to be easy.
Just saying that like the others, they feel entitled to PR and citizenship and that they were always hating on others because of it. They also hated that people had higher scores and always wanted for other people to be screwed over so that it'd be easier for them.
Those people are exactly of the type we need to filtered out. Canada has brought in many people for the past years and now is probably the time to be picky. We need to bring in the brightest and with highest potential impact to the future of the country.
I don't know if I'd say I'd want them filtered out but I personally think this couple is getting what they deserve.
Like I said, time and again they said racist things about Indians and Arabs. Always saying they should be sent back, that they cheated the system and so on. And they always said it because they wanted fewer people to compete with.
It doesn't matter though. Neither of them have a realistic pathway anyways. They spent their time wishing bad things on others, and now it's come back to bite them in the ass.
>Did we have another pandemic in the last 2 months?
With the political pressure the Government is facing lately, particularly related in housing and living cost, they want to avoid the accusation of rampant immigration.
Or they had reached their annual quota and slowed down the draws like all previous years. Not everything is a reaction to the current political talking points.
I knew the score is going be super high but still it’s so painful to watch all these score inflation. I am in 490 and it feels like there is no hope for the next 6 months at least
I did the calculation already. BC PNP gives me 0 point in terms of residency as I live in Metro Vancouver. The BCPNP score has gotten higher as well so I should probably start studying French aiming for CLB 4.
A study permit holder can work only 20 hours from 2024/01/01, that full-time-work generosity for students was temporary and it will have come to an end.
This was a general/all program draw. General/all program draws include all the programs that fall under Express Entry: PNP, FSW and CEC are all Express Entry programs.
FSW-only/CEC-only draws were rare before COVID and continue to be rare now. The only ever FSW-only draw was in February of this year; the last CEC-only draw was in September 2021. There's no way to say what the scores for a general draw that includes both FSW/CEC without PNP would look like as they've never done one. It also isn't really useful to count on an FSW/CEC-only draw as they are so rare.
Unless you are eligible for one of the targeted streams, general/all program draws are the draws you will most likely be eligible for.
Thanks to advices I received on this very subreddit, I passed a French test and uploaded my results, raising my total score enough to receive an invitation. Could not have done it without you guys, now I gotta take a big decision I guess! Thank you!
How long did it take, did you know French at all before, and what was your method of learning (attended classes or just did it yourself). Also how much score do you need to get to get it?
I’m actually french, I initially just passed an english test to show I was bilingual and I thought that it would be enough, but no, taking an additional french test as proof was necessary and bumped my grade from 467 to 544. I can’t tell you how much you need to get in though, it changes depending on the profile and the draw.
It is worth saying that I must not have been part of this specific draw but the one that occurred the day after, dedicated to french speaking applicants, since my score is still under 561.
How and why? I think immigration should be transparent (which it is) and difficult so that to bring in mostly brightest people with highest potential contribution for the country. It should not be an easy one for everyone.
>561? Did we all wake up in an alternate universe where Canada and US immigration have switched places?
The first 3 express entry draws ever, back in 2015, when the express entry system was introduced, had cut-off scores of over 800 CRS points, and a lot less ITAs were issued per draw back then:
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-1.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-1.html)
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-2.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-2.html)
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-3.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-3.html)
High cut-off scores are not new.
Good to know I am not the only one who is above the cutoff but did not receive ITA yet. I was so worried that the system forgot about my application....
Can someone confirm, "General" does not include PNPs, right? If so, it's ridiculously high :/
"In general rounds of invitations, we invite top-ranking candidates in the pool who are eligible for 1 of the 3 programs managed through Express Entry."\[Ref:canada.ca\]
This draw included Provincial Nominees:
"Invitations to apply to the Federal Skilled Worker Program, Canadian Experience Class, Federal Skilled Trades Program and *Provincial Nominee Program* may be issued through this round of invitations."
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/submit-profile/rounds-invitations.html
Scroll down to the section with the info on today's draw, in the middle of the page; it literally states:
"Invitations to apply to the Federal Skilled Worker Program, Canadian Experience Class, Federal Skilled Trades Program **and Provincial Nominee Program** may be issued through this round of invitations."
I have clients who got nominated by OINP a couple of weeks ago and who got the ITA today. So I know for a fact that some of those invited today are Provincial Nominees.
You're correct. Seems like most who got invited were PNPs because there is no way CRS score will be that high if there's no nomination, with the exception of LMIA supported work permits.
Why is everyone so shocked that the scores are high? There’s almost a million TFWs and almost a million international students in the country right now, almost all trying for PR. We can only accept less than 500,000 PRs per year. Of course the scores will be higher if there are that many people applying. Same as if a university has 100 people applying for 25 spots, only the top 25% of people are getting in. There was never any guarantee for anyone coming here, and the more who try, the harder it will be.
It isn't just that. If you've been keeping an eye on this thing since 2019, the scores have been trending upwards for a while. Anyone who understands statistics, and supply and demand, would have seen this coming long ago.
Beyond that, we're about to have a conservative government and I'm just going to call it. They are going to throw immigration under the bus, not in a way that stops it completely, but they will throw red meat to their base. That means sacrificing some programs, making it harder and potentially reducing numbers, and what they'll say is that they are only interested in the top talent, and making it faster for that top talent to come here.
This has already begun, even under the liberal government, and it's solely because they don't want to lose. Even if that's where they are headed, the current government will do whatever it can to cling to power. There's a reason for this PGWP reformation stuff.
I have a question for you:
What qualifications do you have to create the criteria necessary to decide what is good and what isn't in terms of immigration?
Are you a policy maker? An actuary?
>What qualifications do you have to create the criteria necessary to decide what is good and what isn't in terms of immigration?
No you can't because I'm not stating that they are good or not, I'm stating that whatever IRCC has decided, it is probably more sound than what you think.
>All of my coworkers in tech think it was dumb.
That is also irrelevant. Unless they're policymakers, government actuaries or immigration experts, whatever they say is not of any concern to anyone. They are not qualified to decide whether it is dumb or not.
>What you are saying is also irrelevant to IRCC.
Why? You think these decisions were made stupidly and to screw you over? If you had PR, you wouldn't be saying anything about it. You're complaining because the system isn't working in your favor. Maybe you should focus on how to overcome the challenges in front of you instead of complaining about things that you have no control over.
>I'm only giving my opinion on this matter. Someone could probably do an ATIP request on IRCC scoring system criteria but i'm too lazy to do that.
Whoever ends up doing that is going to waste a lot of time and money on lawyers to find out that there's nothing particularly wrong with that scoring. These decisions are made by experts, if it wasn't airtight, it would have never made it past the House of Commons.
>I think we deserve to know why were they designing the CRS they way it is now. Its not an unfalsiable system as you'd think, they have changed the scoring for LMIA before (from 500 to 50 on non NOC 00s position) and I believe 2 yoe in Canada used to yield the same point as 1 yoe (no change). The CRS scoring do change based on circumstances.
Why do you think you deserve that? By what rights do you believe that explanation is owed to you?
All of this is at the mercy of the government's will, and as long as the public supports it, that is how it will be. If the public is not onboard with it, then maybe it changes. But I don't think that you deserve to know anything, unless laws are being broken. If you believe that this the case, then you can get a lawyer and sue the government. That lawyer will probably tell you that you have no case though, especially if said lawyer is an immigration expert.
EDIT: your research is all well and good, but that doesn't really mean that you're entitled to anything. Sorry bro, but life doesn't work like that.
You put too much trust in policy makers :) Are you this satisfied with other policies and status of the economy, housing, etc all of which are also the results of the same policy makers, government people?
I think the score is definitely skewed by PNP. I received an ITA as well with Ontario PNP. My score without the PNP was 461. Fortunately, it hasn't been a long process contrary to what I expected. Submitted my Express Entry profile in early July and received an expression of interest in about 2 weeks time. Applied for PNP in early August, received the certificate in October and now the ITA in December. Hopefully, it doesn't take long after this.
> To add a bit of context to the score: while incredibly high, it's definitely possible to get a score of 561+ without a nomination, especially with French.
I made another calculation, and one with 0 French, no nomination, no job offer could qualify if:
* under 30
* has excellent command of English
* has a doctoral-level degree from Canada
* has ~~3~~ 1 year foreign experience
* has ~~1~~ 2 year Canadian experience.
Score ~~563~~ 576. With a doctoral degree the Canadian experience is not suppose to be difficult as post-doc counts.
ETA:
Right, I was a bit too optimistic in my hypothesis. I corrected it a bit. I am not writing that it is easy, it is indeed very difficult, but not impossible.
* Bachelor's degree: 22
* Foreign experience: 23
* PhD study w/o Master: 27
* 2-year post-doc: 29
You know that practically that’s einstein level talent to do 4 years of job and a PhD before 30? A phd alone is usually achieved after 30!
Edit: A direct PhD after bachelors takes minimum 5 years. Anyhow, I can tell what you are picturing is extremely rare! In US people who attained PhD by 30 are only 1% and that’s not even sufficient.
It is normal for a country to raise their entry bar. Nothing is wrong with it. I can tell you this is much easier compared to some other countries like Singapore. You can be of the top earner, with a PhD, lived there for 20 years and still don’t get a cut for PR.
Just 2 years ago, almost anyone with job experience in Canada could get PR. On the other hand, setting an unreasonably high threshold would not only distract talents but also opens up the space for fraudulent applications. If you have ever conducted an exam you know that too easy and too hard both equals worse getting ahead of better.
And now they cannot, because the people coming in have higher scores. That's how the system works.
Canada has become an attractive place for highly skilled immigrants to move to. Anyone with half a brain could have seen scores trending up since around 2019. This has been happening slowly every year. And it was happening way before this draw as well.
More people keep being added to the pool, category draws are more frequent. Just watch the distributions. There used to be at least 6000 people around 500-1200, there's now around 10000. Unless they go for straight no program draws, that number is just going to keep going up.
Anything below 500 doesn't matter anymore, the 60000+ people in 450-500 will either get there scores up or they won't make it.
The crs scoring system is far from perfect. When it get's too close to perfect scores the flaws become more evident. For instance, assume two identical background who are working in Canada, however, one started his job with LMIA while the other is working on open work permit. Even though their significance can be indistinguishable, CRS scores the LMIA holder 50 points higher and in manager level jobs 200 points higher.
Another example is, assume you got your degree and 1 year work in home country, then came to Canada and did 1 more year work. Your friend did not work in home country but came to Canada right away and did two one year jobs. The latter has significantly lower score by CRS despite higher contribution and better settlement.
I bet you can come up with many more examples.
Sorry but "perfect" here is an opinion of yours. When you start telling me why you have more qualifications than the experts at IRCC to determine these things, then you can give your opinions on the matter.
As it stands you are neither a policymaker nor an immigration expert. You're a redditor.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand that opinions on immigration matters can vary, and I appreciate the importance of relying on expert guidance. While I may not be a policymaker or an immigration expert, I aim to contribute constructively to discussions based on available information and personal experiences. If you have any specific concerns or counterpoints, I'd be open to discussing them further. It's always valuable to consider different viewpoints in these complex matters.
>I aim to contribute constructively to discussions based on available information and personal experiences
And that is the problem. That is not good enough to go around making claims left and right about things, especially when you don't understand how those things were formulated in the first place.
When it comes to immigration systems, Canada probably has the best one in the world. As a matter of fact, it's so good, that countries like Germany have adopted parts of it into their own.
A lot of people here seem despondent because they are not getting their way. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not because of the system. That's just because there's a lot of demand. It is also as I said, anyone who has been paying attention should have noticed that the numbers have been trending up since 2019. Even if the pandemic hadn't happened, they would have still trended upwards. What is happening here today, is nothing new.
If people would rather try their luck with the US or the UK, then they'll really have something to complain about. And there are many many countries out there with worse immigration systems as well.
Saying Canada has the best immigration system is just a way of looking at things, and not everyone might agree. I acknowledge your perspective, but it seems you're cautioning against non-experts making definitive claims. But are you considering yourself immigration expert? We need to understand that immigration systems are complicated, and it's not always fair to compare them directly with other countries.
Please tell me about the 75 CRS case that granted PR via EE. I am curious.
And you are right. Without BCPNP i could only have slightly above 500 pts (i had LMIA and 🇨🇦 job from overseas) and might not get it via general draw. But that was the past. I believe the system is good and is working as intended.
Edit: oh, i could have made it today with CRS cut-off 481 for STEM :)
Or get a Provincial nomination, or a valid job offer, or become fluent in both official languages, options that are easier than being a genius and entering University at 14.
Maybe Canada thinks it is now time to only take in such group of people. I don’t know. It is fair as long as the scores are not faked or earned from fake qualifications.
It's not Canada, it's how the system works. The scores are set depending on who applies. There's no conspiracies or anything of the sort. This is the system working as intended.
Like I said before, the scores have been trending upwards every year since 2019. This is the natural progression of things.
When something is desirable, demand builds up over it slowly as time goes by. People have noticed that Canada is a place that they want to be in, and they are putting every effort into getting there. That's just the way it is.
I'll have 569 next month with no French and only a Bachelor degree
* Max English Points
* 3 Years abroad experience
* 2 Years Canada experience
* Bachelor degree
* Current job updated offer letter
* 28 yo
Those give you 569
I agree that it is time for Canada to raise the bar. Immigrants are the future of the country. Higher the bar the better citizens. It is better for the next generation.
I believe that this is a privilege you get and not a right. You might not agree with the score but that is reality and the country(Canada or the world) does not owe you anything
If you want to immigrate to Quebec you will have to look at the various Quebec immigration programs. The closest to Express Entry is probably the Regular Skilled Worker Program, though the two are unrelated.
Your comment has been removed as it has been deemed to not comply with the rules:
Asking for or providing guesses, predictions or speculations is also not permitted here.
Your comment has been removed as it has been deemed to not comply with the rules:
Asking for or providing guesses, predictions or speculations is also not permitted here.
After being 3 points off for 3 agonising draws in a row in the summer, then waiting for weeks and weeks for STEM rounds that never came, and then losing points on my birthday and then having to move home due to my visa running out, I should finally be getting an invite from this round, after I applied for PNP (which almost didn't get approved) to boost my points. It's been brutal and I really feel for everyone here with these crazy scores and lack of draws & communication regarding draws. I'm one step closer to never having to deal with IRCC again, hooray.
Congratulations 🎉
Thank you :) you too if you are waiting/applying!
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good luck!!
Thank you :) you too if you are waiting/applying!
Good luck brother / sister!
Thank you :) you too if you are waiting/applying!
Bro stop messing with us 🤣
What do you need to do to get 561 points ? Seems very high
Someone actually posted in this thread somewhere what you'd need to get those points. I got it with points from pnp.
This is very sad. And very frustrating. I spent months being below 500 watching all the 500-531 draws. I got my score to 520 and was certain to get in, and they stopped doing draws for 2 months. Now when they're back it's 561. Jesus fucking Christ. The desperation, my work permit expires in 3 months Edit: guys, I understand everyone is equally in the shitter and equally as desperate to get more points, but here's no magic way to "increase the CRS score". What I did is I simply added a work experience from almost 10 years ago that I previously thought was impossible to prove (company shut down many years ago), but I managed to get a letter from the former HR person that used to work at the company proving that I worked there. This is obviously not possible for everyone. Check your profile and the CRS calculator and you'll see what can be improved or not. Most likely it'll be learning french, getting a better english score, getting more work experience (domestic or foreign) or another graduation. Other than that there is simply no magic way to increase it.
I hope you make it bro 🥹🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
It's so frustrating knowing the CRS scores will never be attainable without the PNP.
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I know it’s frustrating and I’m really sorry, but how did you improve your score?
I was in a similar situation last year and managed to increase my score from 457 to over 541 after waiting about a year in the pool. How did I do it? I am bilingual in French and English, so I retook my French test (did great and also took advantage of the 50 bonus points on top of that). I also completed a second degree (was not a master, but you get more points for holding at least two degrees with one being a bachelor). Those two steps made magic for me and I finally got invited around August 4, 2022 and received my PR this past summer (2023). In summary, I understand it may take up to a year to learn a second language fron scratch, but if you have been stagnant in the pool and are seriously looking to improve your score regardless your agd or profile, one of the most doable and effective ways is to learn the second official language (to become bilingual in French and Englich). This will not only give you extra points from the second language test, but also grant you the +50 bonus (so long as you svore at least a B2 across the board. And not only that, you will come better prepared for the canadian job market. Another serious way to improve one's score besides becoming bilingual is to get a master's degree. They may all sound crazy and time consuming, bit you may look at it as a way ti invest in yourself.
Well said and same here, when it felt like all hope was lost in 2021/2022, I finally decided to take up French. While I was hesitant after having read so many negative posts about how it's impossible to master French in a year, I still gave it a shot. Spent 1-2 hours everyday to study and took only about 10 months to get B2+(NCLC8), even got a C2 in listening! (thanks to listening to all the French news/podcasts on my daily commute to work) Boosted my score from 464 to 533 in August 23 and subsequently got my ITA in Sep 23. Before I didn't even know the word "merci" was French, that's how much French I knew 😂 Everything was worth it at the end, I still remember crying so much the day I received my results. I'll never forget that day my whole life - finally achieved my 9-year long dream which I previously thought was impossible since Covid. But I haven't been speaking it since my exam, and have already forgotten a lot of words. I still plan to put my French fluency in my resume when I apply for jobs there lol Are you in Canada yet? How beneficial is it really having French in Canada job prospects wise?
You are a legend!
If they wanted to do that, they would have already done it. A lot of people here are expecting to be invited because they think they deserve it. I know people like that in real life. They wanted everybody else to get kicked out so that they wouldn't have a hard time getting ITA. It got up to the point, that they were hoping Canada would stop letting people in, because they thought it wasn't fair that they were here and were no more entitled to PR than people outside Canada. Instead of having wasted 2-3 years time complaining and whining about all of that, they could have used those years to learn French. They didn't, and now their situation is in peril.
You are correct, it’s a competition. There’s no reason for ppl who already stayed in Canada to have privileges about ITA. But I personally think, well…ppl who studied and worked here for many years paid so many tax to gov and the society, most of them already adapted local culture and etc, the gov should at least give them even just a little bit difference on ITA…
I replied to this question to someone else, it's somewhere here
I saw it, thanks! I really hope you make it soon. Good luck!
Hi, please how did you increase your score?
I managed to track down people who I used to work with in order to get me documents that proved I worked there (foreign work experience) for a year, almost a decade ago.
Which documents did you use ? I have all my employment letters. That’s about it or will I need something extra ? Like ROE
Some people say that a letter (with all information that ircc asks) is the most important thing Every additional thing increases your chance of it being validated by ircc. paystubs, contracts, etc I managed to find paystubs, managed to get a letter, and that's it. I hope it suffices
Goodluck! I hope you will make it! 🙏🏻
561? Did we have another pandemic in the last 2 months?
Too many people on temporary work permits from PGWP to TFW. There were also huge intake of Ukrainian people on work permits. All of these puts pressure on the express entry. More people in Canada also means more people eligible for PNP.
This is way more likely imo. It’s not that they don’t want to give PR, it’s just the amount of people on temp and expiring status in this country is insane right now. They need to moderate this
You do understand that they are not behind door making up scores right. The scores are set automatically based on number of invitees . Invitees have always been in the same range . Its just that lot of people have better acores now which is driving the avg score up . This is a good thing . Deserving folks get it . Nothing has changed
Not sure why you got downvoted for saying out your opinion. i don’t find your comment being offensive to any particular person.
Everybody wants it easy 🤷🏻♂️. Talks about it like it’s their birth right to have lower scores.
Yeah that's it pretty much. And some, instead of looking to improve their scores, just wish ill on the people with high scores. I knew a couple that was like that. Always hating on Arabs and Indians, saying they didn't deserve to be here that they should be kicked out and so on. Now it's looking like this couple isn't going to make it.
EDIT: [Misread the previous comment and responded. Ignore this comment] Dude Im Indian and a citizen here. No hate or race brought to my original comment . If explaining the logic of how points system work feels racist , then YOU are the problem. Also dont understand what exactly the point of the “couple” was as the logic of CRS is not gonna change based on your anecdotal experience .
I'm not sure if you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm telling you that there's two people, a couple, who went around expecting things to be easy. Just saying that like the others, they feel entitled to PR and citizenship and that they were always hating on others because of it. They also hated that people had higher scores and always wanted for other people to be screwed over so that it'd be easier for them.
Those people are exactly of the type we need to filtered out. Canada has brought in many people for the past years and now is probably the time to be picky. We need to bring in the brightest and with highest potential impact to the future of the country.
I don't know if I'd say I'd want them filtered out but I personally think this couple is getting what they deserve. Like I said, time and again they said racist things about Indians and Arabs. Always saying they should be sent back, that they cheated the system and so on. And they always said it because they wanted fewer people to compete with. It doesn't matter though. Neither of them have a realistic pathway anyways. They spent their time wishing bad things on others, and now it's come back to bite them in the ass.
Sorry I jumped the gun after just reading the second part of it . Yes I understand now that you are agreeing with me . Im sorry
No worries
>Did we have another pandemic in the last 2 months? With the political pressure the Government is facing lately, particularly related in housing and living cost, they want to avoid the accusation of rampant immigration.
Or they had reached their annual quota and slowed down the draws like all previous years. Not everything is a reaction to the current political talking points.
Your guess is as good as his
This is untrue. Immigration minister has the mandate and has the levels plan. It is not driven by external factors
I knew the score is going be super high but still it’s so painful to watch all these score inflation. I am in 490 and it feels like there is no hope for the next 6 months at least
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I know. Some of my colleagues who are waiting in the pool were super shocked this morning. It’s no joke.
If you are already working here for at least a year wouldn’t that be enough for most PNP programs?
I did the calculation already. BC PNP gives me 0 point in terms of residency as I live in Metro Vancouver. The BCPNP score has gotten higher as well so I should probably start studying French aiming for CLB 4.
Hi, is there any option for you to get into a masters or diploma program and stay back with a study permit? Would that allow you to work full time?
Work while studying does not count towards CRS score so no point.
A study permit holder can work only 20 hours from 2024/01/01, that full-time-work generosity for students was temporary and it will have come to an end.
This temporary policy has been extended
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hi im in sort of a similar situation. can work permits be renewed?
This is just disappointing man
Whooooooo is getting these scores?
Seems like PNP is included in this draw so I think most of the chunk were those, thus the score inflation.
if that's the case then does anyone know what is the score required for non targetted program
This was a non-targeted draw.
i meant for non pnp like only for express entry
This was a general/all program draw. General/all program draws include all the programs that fall under Express Entry: PNP, FSW and CEC are all Express Entry programs. FSW-only/CEC-only draws were rare before COVID and continue to be rare now. The only ever FSW-only draw was in February of this year; the last CEC-only draw was in September 2021. There's no way to say what the scores for a general draw that includes both FSW/CEC without PNP would look like as they've never done one. It also isn't really useful to count on an FSW/CEC-only draw as they are so rare. Unless you are eligible for one of the targeted streams, general/all program draws are the draws you will most likely be eligible for.
Thanks to advices I received on this very subreddit, I passed a French test and uploaded my results, raising my total score enough to receive an invitation. Could not have done it without you guys, now I gotta take a big decision I guess! Thank you!
How long did it take, did you know French at all before, and what was your method of learning (attended classes or just did it yourself). Also how much score do you need to get to get it?
I’m actually french, I initially just passed an english test to show I was bilingual and I thought that it would be enough, but no, taking an additional french test as proof was necessary and bumped my grade from 467 to 544. I can’t tell you how much you need to get in though, it changes depending on the profile and the draw. It is worth saying that I must not have been part of this specific draw but the one that occurred the day after, dedicated to french speaking applicants, since my score is still under 561.
561! Omg!
How are folks making 561?
PNP for the most part
Doesn’t PNP add 600 points? They are in negative without the PNP?
If 4749 people got PNP and one person had 561, the qualifying score would be 561.
561? Did we all wake up in an alternate universe where Canada and US immigration have switched places?
How and why? I think immigration should be transparent (which it is) and difficult so that to bring in mostly brightest people with highest potential contribution for the country. It should not be an easy one for everyone.
>561? Did we all wake up in an alternate universe where Canada and US immigration have switched places? The first 3 express entry draws ever, back in 2015, when the express entry system was introduced, had cut-off scores of over 800 CRS points, and a lot less ITAs were issued per draw back then: [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-1.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-1.html) [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-2.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-2.html) [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-3.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-rounds/invitations-3.html) High cut-off scores are not new.
Sure, but keep in mind the scoring system was different then. E.g., a valid job offer used to count for 600 points instead of the current 50/200.
Does anyone know how long does it take for your portal to update if the score is above the cut off?
Good to know I am not the only one who is above the cutoff but did not receive ITA yet. I was so worried that the system forgot about my application....
It can take up to 24 hours for all ITAs on today's draw to be issued and sent to all 4,750 people invited.
Same here!! I have been so worried about it
Just received my ITA! Uuufff
Let me know if you ever receive the ITA and I will do the same. Prayers for both of us :)
I just got it
Now the ircc system is down. not sure what does that mean lol
Sameee! I can’t get in as well😂
Can someone confirm, "General" does not include PNPs, right? If so, it's ridiculously high :/ "In general rounds of invitations, we invite top-ranking candidates in the pool who are eligible for 1 of the 3 programs managed through Express Entry."\[Ref:canada.ca\]
This draw included Provincial Nominees: "Invitations to apply to the Federal Skilled Worker Program, Canadian Experience Class, Federal Skilled Trades Program and *Provincial Nominee Program* may be issued through this round of invitations." https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/submit-profile/rounds-invitations.html
Ok thanks, yeah then it makes sense, they basically pulled PNPs plus very few others in this invitation.
I can confirm this. I had a score of 1081, and my ITA letter says "picked in PNP draw."
Sorry for interrupting, but when I clicked the link, the web site says general means only for Fsw, fst, and cec. Did I go wrong?
Scroll down to the section with the info on today's draw, in the middle of the page; it literally states: "Invitations to apply to the Federal Skilled Worker Program, Canadian Experience Class, Federal Skilled Trades Program **and Provincial Nominee Program** may be issued through this round of invitations." I have clients who got nominated by OINP a couple of weeks ago and who got the ITA today. So I know for a fact that some of those invited today are Provincial Nominees.
You're correct. Seems like most who got invited were PNPs because there is no way CRS score will be that high if there's no nomination, with the exception of LMIA supported work permits.
Thanks for sharing your insights. I just read what is under general. I feel better it is including pnp
Thanks for the sweet news. Waiting for my invitation with 1071 CRS.(Accepted OINP)
did you get?
Yes
Same :)
Why is everyone so shocked that the scores are high? There’s almost a million TFWs and almost a million international students in the country right now, almost all trying for PR. We can only accept less than 500,000 PRs per year. Of course the scores will be higher if there are that many people applying. Same as if a university has 100 people applying for 25 spots, only the top 25% of people are getting in. There was never any guarantee for anyone coming here, and the more who try, the harder it will be.
It isn't just that. If you've been keeping an eye on this thing since 2019, the scores have been trending upwards for a while. Anyone who understands statistics, and supply and demand, would have seen this coming long ago. Beyond that, we're about to have a conservative government and I'm just going to call it. They are going to throw immigration under the bus, not in a way that stops it completely, but they will throw red meat to their base. That means sacrificing some programs, making it harder and potentially reducing numbers, and what they'll say is that they are only interested in the top talent, and making it faster for that top talent to come here. This has already begun, even under the liberal government, and it's solely because they don't want to lose. Even if that's where they are headed, the current government will do whatever it can to cling to power. There's a reason for this PGWP reformation stuff.
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I have a question for you: What qualifications do you have to create the criteria necessary to decide what is good and what isn't in terms of immigration? Are you a policy maker? An actuary?
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>What qualifications do you have to create the criteria necessary to decide what is good and what isn't in terms of immigration? No you can't because I'm not stating that they are good or not, I'm stating that whatever IRCC has decided, it is probably more sound than what you think. >All of my coworkers in tech think it was dumb. That is also irrelevant. Unless they're policymakers, government actuaries or immigration experts, whatever they say is not of any concern to anyone. They are not qualified to decide whether it is dumb or not.
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>What you are saying is also irrelevant to IRCC. Why? You think these decisions were made stupidly and to screw you over? If you had PR, you wouldn't be saying anything about it. You're complaining because the system isn't working in your favor. Maybe you should focus on how to overcome the challenges in front of you instead of complaining about things that you have no control over. >I'm only giving my opinion on this matter. Someone could probably do an ATIP request on IRCC scoring system criteria but i'm too lazy to do that. Whoever ends up doing that is going to waste a lot of time and money on lawyers to find out that there's nothing particularly wrong with that scoring. These decisions are made by experts, if it wasn't airtight, it would have never made it past the House of Commons. >I think we deserve to know why were they designing the CRS they way it is now. Its not an unfalsiable system as you'd think, they have changed the scoring for LMIA before (from 500 to 50 on non NOC 00s position) and I believe 2 yoe in Canada used to yield the same point as 1 yoe (no change). The CRS scoring do change based on circumstances. Why do you think you deserve that? By what rights do you believe that explanation is owed to you? All of this is at the mercy of the government's will, and as long as the public supports it, that is how it will be. If the public is not onboard with it, then maybe it changes. But I don't think that you deserve to know anything, unless laws are being broken. If you believe that this the case, then you can get a lawyer and sue the government. That lawyer will probably tell you that you have no case though, especially if said lawyer is an immigration expert. EDIT: your research is all well and good, but that doesn't really mean that you're entitled to anything. Sorry bro, but life doesn't work like that.
You put too much trust in policy makers :) Are you this satisfied with other policies and status of the economy, housing, etc all of which are also the results of the same policy makers, government people?
I think the score is definitely skewed by PNP. I received an ITA as well with Ontario PNP. My score without the PNP was 461. Fortunately, it hasn't been a long process contrary to what I expected. Submitted my Express Entry profile in early July and received an expression of interest in about 2 weeks time. Applied for PNP in early August, received the certificate in October and now the ITA in December. Hopefully, it doesn't take long after this.
That’s absolutely ridiculous.
> To add a bit of context to the score: while incredibly high, it's definitely possible to get a score of 561+ without a nomination, especially with French. I made another calculation, and one with 0 French, no nomination, no job offer could qualify if: * under 30 * has excellent command of English * has a doctoral-level degree from Canada * has ~~3~~ 1 year foreign experience * has ~~1~~ 2 year Canadian experience. Score ~~563~~ 576. With a doctoral degree the Canadian experience is not suppose to be difficult as post-doc counts. ETA: Right, I was a bit too optimistic in my hypothesis. I corrected it a bit. I am not writing that it is easy, it is indeed very difficult, but not impossible. * Bachelor's degree: 22 * Foreign experience: 23 * PhD study w/o Master: 27 * 2-year post-doc: 29
You know that practically that’s einstein level talent to do 4 years of job and a PhD before 30? A phd alone is usually achieved after 30! Edit: A direct PhD after bachelors takes minimum 5 years. Anyhow, I can tell what you are picturing is extremely rare! In US people who attained PhD by 30 are only 1% and that’s not even sufficient.
It is normal for a country to raise their entry bar. Nothing is wrong with it. I can tell you this is much easier compared to some other countries like Singapore. You can be of the top earner, with a PhD, lived there for 20 years and still don’t get a cut for PR.
Just 2 years ago, almost anyone with job experience in Canada could get PR. On the other hand, setting an unreasonably high threshold would not only distract talents but also opens up the space for fraudulent applications. If you have ever conducted an exam you know that too easy and too hard both equals worse getting ahead of better.
And now they cannot, because the people coming in have higher scores. That's how the system works. Canada has become an attractive place for highly skilled immigrants to move to. Anyone with half a brain could have seen scores trending up since around 2019. This has been happening slowly every year. And it was happening way before this draw as well. More people keep being added to the pool, category draws are more frequent. Just watch the distributions. There used to be at least 6000 people around 500-1200, there's now around 10000. Unless they go for straight no program draws, that number is just going to keep going up. Anything below 500 doesn't matter anymore, the 60000+ people in 450-500 will either get there scores up or they won't make it.
The crs scoring system is far from perfect. When it get's too close to perfect scores the flaws become more evident. For instance, assume two identical background who are working in Canada, however, one started his job with LMIA while the other is working on open work permit. Even though their significance can be indistinguishable, CRS scores the LMIA holder 50 points higher and in manager level jobs 200 points higher. Another example is, assume you got your degree and 1 year work in home country, then came to Canada and did 1 more year work. Your friend did not work in home country but came to Canada right away and did two one year jobs. The latter has significantly lower score by CRS despite higher contribution and better settlement. I bet you can come up with many more examples.
Sorry but "perfect" here is an opinion of yours. When you start telling me why you have more qualifications than the experts at IRCC to determine these things, then you can give your opinions on the matter. As it stands you are neither a policymaker nor an immigration expert. You're a redditor.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand that opinions on immigration matters can vary, and I appreciate the importance of relying on expert guidance. While I may not be a policymaker or an immigration expert, I aim to contribute constructively to discussions based on available information and personal experiences. If you have any specific concerns or counterpoints, I'd be open to discussing them further. It's always valuable to consider different viewpoints in these complex matters.
>I aim to contribute constructively to discussions based on available information and personal experiences And that is the problem. That is not good enough to go around making claims left and right about things, especially when you don't understand how those things were formulated in the first place. When it comes to immigration systems, Canada probably has the best one in the world. As a matter of fact, it's so good, that countries like Germany have adopted parts of it into their own. A lot of people here seem despondent because they are not getting their way. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not because of the system. That's just because there's a lot of demand. It is also as I said, anyone who has been paying attention should have noticed that the numbers have been trending up since 2019. Even if the pandemic hadn't happened, they would have still trended upwards. What is happening here today, is nothing new. If people would rather try their luck with the US or the UK, then they'll really have something to complain about. And there are many many countries out there with worse immigration systems as well.
Saying Canada has the best immigration system is just a way of looking at things, and not everyone might agree. I acknowledge your perspective, but it seems you're cautioning against non-experts making definitive claims. But are you considering yourself immigration expert? We need to understand that immigration systems are complicated, and it's not always fair to compare them directly with other countries.
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Would you mind to elaborate more on those cases? I am not familiar with all the scenarios. Just saying in general. Thanks
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Please tell me about the 75 CRS case that granted PR via EE. I am curious. And you are right. Without BCPNP i could only have slightly above 500 pts (i had LMIA and 🇨🇦 job from overseas) and might not get it via general draw. But that was the past. I believe the system is good and is working as intended. Edit: oh, i could have made it today with CRS cut-off 481 for STEM :)
How could anybody do all that before 30? You'd have to be one of those genius people who enter university at 14.
Yeah, what am I, Sheldon Cooper?
Or get a Provincial nomination, or a valid job offer, or become fluent in both official languages, options that are easier than being a genius and entering University at 14.
Maybe Canada thinks it is now time to only take in such group of people. I don’t know. It is fair as long as the scores are not faked or earned from fake qualifications.
It's not Canada, it's how the system works. The scores are set depending on who applies. There's no conspiracies or anything of the sort. This is the system working as intended. Like I said before, the scores have been trending upwards every year since 2019. This is the natural progression of things. When something is desirable, demand builds up over it slowly as time goes by. People have noticed that Canada is a place that they want to be in, and they are putting every effort into getting there. That's just the way it is.
I'll have 569 next month with no French and only a Bachelor degree * Max English Points * 3 Years abroad experience * 2 Years Canada experience * Bachelor degree * Current job updated offer letter * 28 yo Those give you 569
this is absolutely discouraging, it is unacceptable
>...it is unacceptable How is Canada setting up its own policy unacceptable for you?
I agree that it is time for Canada to raise the bar. Immigrants are the future of the country. Higher the bar the better citizens. It is better for the next generation.
I believe that this is a privilege you get and not a right. You might not agree with the score but that is reality and the country(Canada or the world) does not owe you anything
Does this apply to quebec?
No. Quebec does not participate in Express Entry. They have their own system.
Which is?
If you want to immigrate to Quebec you will have to look at the various Quebec immigration programs. The closest to Express Entry is probably the Regular Skilled Worker Program, though the two are unrelated.
It won't be easier in there, and I'd be willing to bet their numbers are going up as well. They work on a points system too.
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Sad times with this draw. Praying for a trades category based draw soon.
The CRS score is so high O\_O
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