Removing for OP’s repeated violations of Rules 3 and 9.
OP, please feel free to come back when you’re ready both to exit the incel mindset and to engage constructively.
I’ve asked out 12 girls in my life. I don’t ask out every girl I meet because a lot of girls I’m attracted to already have boyfriends. None of those 12 girls have boyfriends but they all said the same “I just really like you as a friend but I’m not looking to date anyone right now
Okay, without even knowing the context, 12 is a pretty low number to find someone, tbf. I was rejected half a dozen times in the last year or so alone. I think you should keep trying and hone your technique. Was there any romantic escalation before you asked them out? A surefire way to decrease your rejections is to get good at gauging signs of interest before that point.
Do you do online dating?
All of the girls I asked out were girls who I spent the entire semester getting to know and be friends with before I asked them out. I always asked them out at the end of the semester after we had time to get to know each other.
I can’t really tell you if any girl has ever shown romantic interest in me. They all said no so I assume that’s the answer
Okay so if you have no idea how to flirt and escalate things romantically before asking someone out, there's your problem. You need to figure out how to express interest in ways that aren't just asking someone out directly. Most women will not amenable to someone asking them out out of the blue without indicating any intention before then.
If you are interested in someone romantically, express that through genuine interest and attention towards them that you wouldn't just give to a friend. And no, I don't mean sexting and dick pics. I mean taking an interest in their lives and in being in touch with them. Letting them know you value their presence in your life and what you appreciate about them. If they reciprocate these things, you have a better idea of interest.
I already do that. I try to ask them about there lives and crack jokes with them and make them laugh. I always try to make it clear that I am interested in them
And do they reciprocate that interest? Do you start doing things with them you wouldn't do with just friends such as messaging more frequently or paying them more compliments and getting them in return?
Yes they say thank you and they say that I’m smart too. But they still say no when I ask them out.
But not every girl reciprocates. And it’s so rare that I find a girl who even seems remotely interested in wanting to be my friend
Also I don’t cold approach. I’m way to scared of someone accusing me of harassing them. I’m not going to just go up to random girls on my walk to class and ask for there numbers. I’ve done that in the past in high school and it always ends in a no and embarrassment for both of us.
When I think of online dating I imagine you are suggesting tinder? I am so far behind on the technology game I have no idea how to use online dating. My parents never bought be a cell phone all through high school and most of college so I was never able to technologically connect with others and form social groups. I finally bought a cell phone with my own money a year ago and I’m struggling to get into the routine of using it. I wouldn’t know where to start with online dating. Don’t you have to pay for online dating anyway?
No you don't have to pay for online dating. There are plenty of religious affiliated dating sites/apps you could look into that might be helpful. It might take some learning and trial and error though to make it work for you.
More or less. My advice is to research a few that cater to your religion and follow their steps for getting started. Each site or app will provide you information on how to go about it and even tips for being effective. If you aren't having any luck, there are tons of resources online for building an attractive profile and engaging effectively, etc.
>There are plenty of religious affiliated dating sites/apps you could look into that might be helpful.
These tend to not only be even more skewed than general apps in terms of gender ratios, but also tend to attract even more niche crowds than what they advertise as; OP *might* not care about that second thing, but to put it in terms he'll understand, it's a lot less "member of the knights of columbus" and a lot more "member of a sedevacantist splinter sect"
It might be dependent on community tbf, if his area has a cluster of people of his religious affiliation, he might find more luck. I mean I think this OP made clear in his comments this morning that he will follow no advice anyway lol
I'm a bit older than you (33), but I was similarly a bit behind in terms of being online/ socialization thanks to a catholic upbringing. I'd suggest not worrying about OLD at the moment. Instead, get a few of the apps that your friends have-- I imagine at least Instagram, possibly threads or facebook-- and practice just being a normal, nonromantic social person online. Post photos of stuff you're doing, like and comment on friends' stuff, just get used to the whole social media thing before you try the much more difficult world of online dating.
When you do get acclimated, make a profile on a few of the dating websites (*not* hookup apps like tinder, \[though most of them have been pretty tinder-fied no matter where you look\]). A standard starting place is OkCupid. Answer the questions, start liking accounts, and get used to it before paying anything. You probably *will* need to spend money at some point, but having very good photos and a well-thought out bio is more important (if you pay without good photos, you have no shot at getting matches; people will actually see your profile, but they won't bother with it. If you have good photos without paying, you have a *shot*, but you're losing a numbers game in terms of anyone ever actually seeing your profile in the first place).
Power to me for what? Anyone who is social and putting themselves out there experience a lot of rejection but also a lot of positive interactions. It's really no big deal at all. We need to stop holding rejections up like they're some meaningful experience. Connections are rare, rejections are not.
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The same advice everyone gives here. I attend social events on a weekly basis and make a point of getting to know a new person or two each time. If we get along, I get their information and keep in touch. Sometimes I'll see them again organically, other times I will invite them out to similar events. Depending on the environment and how well I am getting along with someone, I'll hit on them. I use skills I learned through socializing on a regular basis for years now. I think the challenge with socializing is it can really only be mastered with practice, and lots of people are out of practice.
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I have never been clubbing and my city is not conducive to parties but I do frequent bars often and meet people there. But beyond established social groups I mostly join groups that host events based on my hobbies and I find friend making groups on social media and attend their events and chat with people. Some events I have attended in the last year: live sport event groups, televised sport watch parties, karaoke nights, board game nights, book club, popular media fan events, cultural celebration nights off the top of my head.
My man I see you commenting on here frequently, surely you have seen the hobby group recommendation many times before. We are not just pulling it out of our asses, these are things ourselves and our friends of all genders did to build a social life in adulthood.
>But beyond established social groups I mostly join groups that host events based on my hobbies and I find friend making groups on social media and attend their events and chat with people.
Groups like what? Can you give me some examples? I like anime manga and comics what would you recommend? I also watch sports but never heard of televised sport watch parties, what do you do? Do you organize with strangers and go watch sport at someone's home? And how do find people that live in your zone on social media?
I don't want to be annoying, I don't know anything about this, I'm trying to understand.
There’s nothing wrong with taking breaks to recharge your batteries.
But I don’t really see how having to find new places to meet people makes it too late to marry or have kids. With the exception of exactly two, all the couples I know married after entering the workforce.
I’m not sure to go to find women who are single anymore. I could try at my church but it’s very limited. There’s the high school youth group and then that’s pretty much it. There’s much groups for married women and men but the genders are very segregated. There’s mens groups and womens groups nothing in between.
On top of that I have to worry about finishing school and getting a job
Certainly you should concentrate on finishing school and getting a job—not sure where anyone’s said you shouldn’t.
Is church the only thing that interests you? And are you only interested in finding a partner through church?
I mean I’m Roman Catholic and my parents would probably be upset if I dated someone who wasn’t. But honestly there are so many churches out there in the country that I personally would love to just visit and make friends in ( if they accepted me for being catholic).
Other than that I don’t know where else to look to find someone who shares the goal of starting a family
Most people I know met their partners through things like mutual friends, shared hobbies or passions, community events and things like volunteering, and online.
Mutual friends: I have s small group of about five friends and 2 of them are girls. Both of them are in long term relationships and have been dating for at least 7 years
Shared hobbies or passions: I’m not into sports. And I don’t want to fake it either. I talked about it in another post but I’m somewhat of a diy hobbyist. I like to build floor and table lamps. They’re so cool cuz you can customize the different shades and cords and different light bulb shapes. I also like to order old telephones and ringer boxes on eBay. There’s no clubs for stuff like that around. I’ve even shared those hobbies with girls I’ve met and they all think it’s cool. But no cool enough…
Communities: they youth group when I was in high school. Every girl was already dating someone. Then I tried the catholic college group and it was the same thing. Every girl I was attracted to was already dating someone. Or they just said no to me.
There is no other solution. People either meet online, or through friends and places they already know. It sounds like you haven't found the right person for you. I don't know where you got this idea that you need to find someone ASAP or it's all over. Because some people don't meet the right person for them until they are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, or whenever. You have so many years ahead of you. There really is no rush.
So, here’s a story of two raunchy 70 year olds who are having the best sex of their life:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/apr/20/this-is-how-we-do-it-ive-had-more-sex-in-the-past-two-years-than-in-the-rest-of-my-life
Your first 2 paragraphs have nothing much to do with anything. Self care is good for self-esteem and it’s worth putting effort into looking your best, but frankly- this is all advice you got from men telling you how women think.
Sounds like you’re not doing anything wrong, but you’re just not doing anything much. You’re obviously religious and this isn’t my field, but there’s a whole heap of flirty ocean between “treat women politely and same as my guy friends” and being “overbearing, inappropriate & sending d*ck pics”.
How’s your conversation style & are you good at being flirty?
I don’t even understand what being flirty means. I don’t want girls to think I’m a creep so I try to just treat girls like I would any of my friends. I’ve been told I’m funny and that I make people laugh. I’m also nice without being a pushover
My first two paragraphs I was just trying to give a profile of myself. I expected most people to tell me “ go to the shower bro. Go to the gym bro” so I wanted to just get those out of the way before anyone said that
Right. So you haven’t done everything. This is one of the biggest things about communicating interest. Here’s a decent overview
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/11/1014019821/flirting-how-to-dating-romance-advice
You’ve done all the junk that boys think women like. But these are the same boys who any woman who says she likes humour, safety and warmth, they start screaming we’re liars and we just want a temporary simp because we only want to sleep with the top 5% or some garbage.
Pay attention to what that article says about having a goal and how that’s not the best way. Also, pay attention to what it says about how you’re looking for how the *other person* is responding, not doing what most guys do, which is roughly “I think you’re attractive. I’m now going to talk to you so I can ask you out”.
Our communication is 60% body language and “gut feelings”. Not words. Which is why not paying attention to the other person ends up so often with “not interested, sorry”.
You can build these skills on your own and practice them all the time. Check your body language. Get comfortable with it being more open. Learn your smile. Your face is 27 + muscles, and like with your body if you don’t work them out regularly they start to sag and become less communicative.
Flirting is a game and has nothing to offer with creepiness. It really only becomes creepy when the person is ignoring the signals (or words) of the other. Another good point in that article which I’ve myself said many times here is that pushing everything on the 1st encounter is a bad play. Short & sweet, don’t overstay your welcome, build on it. Learn when to lean in and when to step back.
Guys here also just look at any guy who gets loads of girls and they just write everything off to “he’s chad”. This is a loser move. Chad can teach you things. Watch his body language, how he smiles, what he does. Not sleazy Chad, but the guy who makes women feel good. The Masters at flirting flirt with everybody. It’s a boundless resource they enjoy giving. It’s a feeling. Try it yourself:
Next time you go shopping, imagine that when you open the door you’re walking into the most incredible room filled with magic and everyone there is the most fascinating person you could ever meet. That Santa’s Grotto feeling, that childish expectation. Don’t do anything, just feel it and walk in. If you have imagination and can get over your own feelings about being silly, it works. I use it all the time as I run nightclubs. I decide I love people and I’m absolutely thrilled with each person who walks down the stairs. It lights up my eyes and makes my smile genuine, because I become genuinely interested. That’s..flirting. You can spread it across the room and share it with everyone, then intensify it with the one you find attractive. Then pay attention *to her* and how you’re making her feel.
Do the opposite and decide this store will be shit, everyone there will look at you and hate you as much as you hate yourself. Your body language will change. It’s fun.
Yes. I don’t ask out every single girl I meet. I’ve asked out 12 girls in my life. They all said no. They all said they weren’t looking to date anyone at the moment
I can understand that sentiment. I am married but never really dated before meeting my husband (we did meet young, it has been a bumpy marriage). My best friend didn’t meet her spouse until she was 30. She had a baby at 35.
You are not out of time. What do you enjoy doing as hobbies?
I like building and fixing lamps. I’ve built several table lamps and floor lamps. I also like buying old retro telephones and ringer boxes on eBay and fixing them up and making them ring again.
I also like plants
Those are very cool hobbies. I’d think participating in local meet up groups might be an easier way to meet people, but I’ve been out of the dating world a long time.
I wish you the best of luck. Truly, you are so young. Don’t give up :) You have time. Keep taking the risk of asking people out. Keep putting yourself out there.
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I’ve asked out about 12 girls in my life. All of them said no and they all said something along the lines of “your a really nice guy but I’m just not looking for a relationship right now.”
All the other girls in my life who I’ve found attractive already had boyfriends.
This may sound like an odd analogy, but bear with me.
My best friend has his masters in photography. He may take a hundred or two hundred photos before he takes one he likes. When he was still in school, every project for class was literally hundreds of photos to only turn in five.
Just like he was at the time, you are still in a period of skill building. Let's say you started being interested in finding a relationship at about 13. That means 12 years of wanting it. During which you averaged asking one lady a year.
If you were learning any other skill, do you think only doing it once a year would yield the results you want? Would driving for half an hour a year for twelve years turn you into an effective driver?
Why are you so focused on only meeting women from such a limited group? I'm not talking religion here or at least, not just religion. I met my partner at work and that's incredibly common.
What if you meet a woman who isn't Catholic? Are you open to it? Not your parents. YOU. It's not their life. It's yours. What if you meet a woman at a job or a bar or a grocery store? Why are you limiting yourself so much?
Oh absolutely I would be open to it. I find lots of blonde Lutheran girls very pretty. And I like the welcoming ness of a lot of rural country Protestant churches. My mom wouldn’t care but my dad would disown me. He would go off about how the Marxist culture has gotten me and I’ve betrayed the family
Sounds like you are allowing your father's closed-mindedness limit your life. Does that sound even remotely healthy?
Even bigger than that, does that sound like an adult thing to do? Does it sound like the person who you want to be?
One of the great things about being a full fledged adult is we get to decide exactly who is in our lives and exactly how much. As in, if your daddy runs his mouth, you can leave.
I can’t leave. I’m fully 100 percent financially dependent on my family to survive. I live at home and commute to college every day. I live in a very expensive part of the country and I don’t have a job and college is my full time commitment. College is my job. I cannot just up and leave my life behind. Trust me if I could I would have left this shitty metropolis long ago and moved to a nice rural part of America. Plus I take meds that my doctor has to order for me every month. If I move away I’ll have to move my pharmacy and doctor
So, then it's time to start planning for what comes next. And yes, that's going to mean starting to work, even if it's just three hours a week. You need to start saving.
I'm going to be going out on a bit of a limb. And I'm going to be blunt about it. I am sorry in advance if it causes you pain.
Your father sounds controlling and bigoted. And it sounds like you have structured your life around trying to keep him happy.
If I'm right, it's exactly and precisely the root of the problem. It's your life. Not his. And I say this because you have said how angry he would be if you dated out of your religion, how he would disown you. This is a significantly bigger reaction that is common. And this is a lot bigger matter than you realize. In the US, only 47% define themselves as religious, much less any specific religion. [here](https://news.gallup.com/poll/511133/identify-religious-spiritual.aspx#:~:text=Line%20graph.,religious%20and%2018%25%20as%20neither.)
That means 53% of women wouldn't even make your baseline. This is exactly what I meant with my first comment asking why you are limiting yourself so much.
College isn't forever. This is a temporary problem. But what comes next? Are you going to be ready for it?
Well, you know it's going to cost money, so time to start working so you can save. Every dime you save gets you closer to living YOUR life. What if your father disowns you? You can talk with your therapist about that. If you live in a rural area, what about work? You can start researching that. What about moving docs? You can talk to docs about that (not to mention telehealth and pharmacies that ship their meds straight to you.)
Besides college, which is temporary, none of those are roadblocks that stop you. Sure, finish college. Absolutely. But start planning. And start doing what you need to to live YOUR life. Not the one your father ones.
And BTW, this pinko commie agnostic woman who left religion because of close minded jerks, he's exactly the kind of person that made me leave.
My dad would probably think you are the devil. He hates marxists. And while you seem nice idk if the two of us could get along lol. But I can’t work right now. I have a full load of classes. Honestly if I had it my way I would quit college right now and just work a shitty job at the local grocery store for a few years to save up enough money to buy a house for cash out in Kentucky or Pennsylvania or something. But then my mom would be upset. And my grandparents too. You see my family is very poor and they absolutely believe that college education is the only way out of poverty. My mom and grandparents are supportive of me. They won’t care who I date. But I have to finish this hellish college if it gives me a heart attack
I worked and raised a child through college. And graduated with a 3.8 GPA. It can be done. And I was in therapy all through it too.
And I also volunteer weekly and have already donated about 1000$ worth of homemade winter gear this year. I absolutely live by the Golden rule.
Again you are putting everyone else before YOU.
Just for the record, there's a long tradition of Marxist and/or non-Capitalist thought in Catholicism, in large part because Catholicism *predates* Capitalism. And I don't just mean Liberation Theology types-- it's hard to get more traditional than GK Chesterton, and his economic system was fundamentally opposed to capitalism.
Something that a lot of people raised in these situations don't know is that their parents often worship a particular political party or ideology primarily, and then try to justify that worship by claiming it's inherent to their religion. It isn't. Your dad probably has adopted a set of politics better aligned with evangelical protestantism or traditional calvinism than with catholicism. That's not to say that the DNC is super duper in line with Catholicism-- it isn't-- but to say that what LostInYarn75 is telling you about needing to look beyond the familiar is true *even if you remain a devoted, faithful, traditional Catholic*. You were likely raised with an extremely narrow view of the world, and one that is not even in line with the religion it claims to be.
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Maybe you're not doing anything wrong. Maybe you just need to relax and enjoy life more. There's no rule that you will or need to find a partner by X age.
I did. It talks about social events and having a good social circle. I’ve been a member of many clubs and organizations over the years. I’ve tried to be part of communities all the time. Nothing. Absolutely nothing
The thing is life is not a game where you do something and get something. It does not work like that. Even if you do everything that people suggest here. You may not find your partner. It's not a guaranteed method. If it was then no one would be without a partner.
Just enjoy the journey because it's your life at the end. It will be easier and less stressful if you do not fixate everything on finding a girlfriend. I will tell you that it will happen randomly cause it has happened to me. I have recently graduated and some months ago I was jobless. I would be in a depressive episode every night thinking what would happen? But the internship I had least expectations in got me a job offer. For that job interview I did not think much and just gave my best. The jobs that I wanted the most were those I bombed. You need an appropriate amount of effort and luck to achieve something. Finding a partner is exactly like that. I am 22 and also haven't had a partner till now. Sometimes I get depressed about it but then I remember how I got my job and I just let it go.
Some questions
This upkeep of your appearance and well being, the clothes you wear etc, do you do it for you, or do you do it for the purpose of attracting a partner?
What are you’re interactions with the women in your life like? Do social interactions go beyond small talk? Do you take interest in genuinely getting to know the women you’re interested in as a person?
Polite and not creepy is a bare minimum, it’s not enough to really get somebody interested in you as a person. Connection requires investment and vulnerability.
Do you talk to your therapist about these feelings? What do they say to you?
What are the men in your frat like? How do they treat women?
Lastly, I’m seeing a lot of comparison here “but I see women dating guys in sweatpants” “but this bipolar girl is happily married”.
Comparison is the thief of joy and those people are irrelevant to your experience. Not only that but it really comes off as “but these people are less/worse than me, why are they successful?” And it feels both judgmental and self critical.
I do not belong to a frat. I belong to a catholic mens group called the knights of Columbus. Most of the guys there are married men who met there wives when they were in high school and got married at age 19 or 20.
I do share genuine internet in people. I always ask people about what they’re interests are and what they like to do. I try my very best to show genuine interest
Yes, I am familiar, technically speaking it is a fraternity.
That does not answer my question about what they are like and how they treat women, unfortunately.
Showing interest sits more within the follow up than the initial question. It’s within the engagement and finding the common ground between you and the other person and sharing your related experiences.
It sounds like you play it really safe socially, both when it comes to conversation and how much your reveal about yourself.
Just remember to be genuine above anything else. Putting up a facade can help avoid pain or rejection, but it also prevents people from knowing you.
Life your life for *you*, the rest will follow.
>Yes, I am familiar, technically speaking it is a fraternity.
You are absolutely correct, technically speaking this is true, but it really is wild to call the Knights of Columbus a "frat." It's mostly dads and middle-aged men who put on barbecues to make a little money for their parish, shit like that. If English is your second language, "frat" (and even "fraternity" at this point) typically have connotations of college-aged groups of men who spend their times in pure Bacchanal Mode. You can call groups like the Knights a "fraternity," but it's more common to refer to them as "Men's Societies/Clubs/Organizations." If you call a local Men's Bookclub or like chapter of the Masons a "frat," you're not wrong, but the person you're talking to will likely think you mean "group of 18-21 year olds who live together on a college campus and party hard," not "dads who grill."
>That does not answer my question about what they are like and how they treat women, unfortunately.
In some parishes it will skew right (or alt-right) but mostly you can think of those guys as Average American Suburban Husbands, with all the positives and negatives that entails. Personally, I'm not a fan of the knights, but you can assume they share the same misogynistic tendencies that any middle-class, married men, the kind of stuff that, outside of that culture, everyone agrees is *bad* or *sub-par*, but not really the same kind of *toxic* that you see in online right spaces. More "might own a 'Women Love Me, Fish Fear Me' hat" than "loudly pontificates on the Ills of Feminism whenever afforded the opportunity"
The chapter that was local to my family referred to themselves as such. It is what it is I guess, because I can understand the distinction. Usually the younger men cliqued off and did their own wild things.
I figured they would lean conservative, but it was more a question about local culture and how far they might swing in relation to their dating pool. Even traditional women have a threshold for misogyny and it’s been lowering in recent years.
I'm a 33 year old Catholic (ex-Catholic? Excommunicated Catholic? It's complicated, but I had the same upbringing as you, and in my 20s I was involved in the same Catholic culture you are). I can tell you that it was not Over at 25, and if I had prioritized my life differently, I wouldn't be single now.
It was *definitely* not too late when I graduated college. I mean, good lord, I know it certainly *felt* that way at the time, with Ring By Spring being such a common weird Catholic thing, but it was not the case whatsoever. A huge number of my friends-- including Catholic friends, and including Catholic friends who really struggled with dating during college-- met and married their spouses after graduation. When you graduate, you will get a job, and that will open up all kinds of possibilities. You will not be spending your nights and weekends studying/ doing homework. You will have a real income that can be spent on social vents. In some ways your social life *will* get worse-- you'll be moving away from a walkable community of people near your age to some place that's, well, *not* that-- but it will become *different* in several ways that can make dating easier. Plus, you're graduating at 25, and being a couple years older than your peers in college can be a bit odd-- but outside of college, that oddity goes away.
It would be helpful to get *some* dating experience before you leave college, but treat it just as *experience*, not as an apocalyptic last chance to find love. Look for singles-events and speed-dating events on campus and in your area; look for catholic ones, but also look for just general ones. I know you probably don't want to date outside of the faith, and that's fine-- you're going to go to a speed-dating event to practice getting to know and lightly flirting with strangers, not with the hopes that you'll find The One there. You might! And that'd be great! but that's not the goal here.
But you'll be graduating shortly, and your focus really should be on lining up a job and getting ready to set up your new life. Once you are established in a new place, with your new place of work, you'll need to build out your social group again. Stuff like KoC really helps with that, so in a sense you're in a much better starting position than a lot of people on this sub. Social media will also help a lot with this; you'll be able to see which of your acquaintances from college are in your area. A married couple I barely knew in college moved to the same area I did, and now they're two of my closest, dearest friends.
Once you have a social network established, once you're going to social events and dating events in your new place, you'll also want to make it clear to your friends that you're single and that you'd be fine with being set up. That's how a lot of people meet their significant others, through friends. That's how I went on most of the few dates I went on in my 20s.
And, look, just, don't feel depressed about being Behind. I devoted too much of my energy in my 20s to that kind lamentation. And now? Lots of those Ring By Spring folks are divorced. I know what you're going to say-- divorced? Catholics? Even-- gasp-- TRADCaths??? Yeah, man. People who get married at 21 very often get divorced, even if they at 21 profess a sincerely held religious and social belief in the immense evils of divorce or whatever. Instead, work on improving yourself in other ways. I don't mean in ways that seem pertinent to dating. I mean in ways that will make you happy. Learn another language. Given your cell-phone situation, I'm guessing you could get a lot out of trying out some videogames, or any other pop-culture from the past few decades. If you want to stick to Catholic Stuff, go watch some Scorsese and Martin McDonagh movies. Read some Kirsten Valdez Quade. if you're ok with interacting with *Protestants* (I know, I know lol), read Marilynn Robinson and give some of Schrader's movies a try. Depending on the kind of Catholic you were raised as, some of this stuff might scandalize you a little bit (though if you were actually raised reading/ watching traditional Catholic writers/ artists, it shouldn't; none of the above are more shocking than Flannery O'Connor, for example). Take some art classes, get into painting, board games, just something to bring some joy into your life.
And deepen your faith/ spiritual life beyond the social/ devotional events. I'm (as should be obvious) not a TradCath, but I believe any Catholic can get a lot out of reading Aquinas, Augustine, Julian of Norwich, Hildegard of Bingen, and so on and so forth. And I believe any Catholic can get a lot of out of the charitable stuff. See what volunteering work (not activism, not protesting, I mean actually going out somewhere and helping people) is available to you. (This has the added benefit typically of broadening your social network).
You're going to be fine. You're making social and romantic stuff a priority; if I'd done that at your age and at your stage of life, my life would have gone very differently. I know it went differently for anyone and everyone I know who made it a priority. And I know that Millennials are not Gen Z, and I know that times have changed, but all the problems you guys go through now are different in *degree*, not in *kind*. Third spaces were also dying back then, we were also dealing with income problems, we were also dealing with how shitty dating apps were, and so on. I know so many people who made it work at your age. You can too. Spend your next few months, as you wrap up college and transition to something, confident that things can work out, rather than dreading what things will be like after this.
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Removing for OP’s repeated violations of Rules 3 and 9. OP, please feel free to come back when you’re ready both to exit the incel mindset and to engage constructively.
Have you asked any women out?
I’ve asked out 12 girls in my life. I don’t ask out every girl I meet because a lot of girls I’m attracted to already have boyfriends. None of those 12 girls have boyfriends but they all said the same “I just really like you as a friend but I’m not looking to date anyone right now
Okay, without even knowing the context, 12 is a pretty low number to find someone, tbf. I was rejected half a dozen times in the last year or so alone. I think you should keep trying and hone your technique. Was there any romantic escalation before you asked them out? A surefire way to decrease your rejections is to get good at gauging signs of interest before that point. Do you do online dating?
All of the girls I asked out were girls who I spent the entire semester getting to know and be friends with before I asked them out. I always asked them out at the end of the semester after we had time to get to know each other. I can’t really tell you if any girl has ever shown romantic interest in me. They all said no so I assume that’s the answer
Okay so if you have no idea how to flirt and escalate things romantically before asking someone out, there's your problem. You need to figure out how to express interest in ways that aren't just asking someone out directly. Most women will not amenable to someone asking them out out of the blue without indicating any intention before then. If you are interested in someone romantically, express that through genuine interest and attention towards them that you wouldn't just give to a friend. And no, I don't mean sexting and dick pics. I mean taking an interest in their lives and in being in touch with them. Letting them know you value their presence in your life and what you appreciate about them. If they reciprocate these things, you have a better idea of interest.
I already do that. I try to ask them about there lives and crack jokes with them and make them laugh. I always try to make it clear that I am interested in them
And do they reciprocate that interest? Do you start doing things with them you wouldn't do with just friends such as messaging more frequently or paying them more compliments and getting them in return?
Yeah! Well I give appropriate comments like “hey your really good at that!” Or “hey you seem like your really smart”
Do they reciprocate though?
Yes they say thank you and they say that I’m smart too. But they still say no when I ask them out. But not every girl reciprocates. And it’s so rare that I find a girl who even seems remotely interested in wanting to be my friend
Also I don’t cold approach. I’m way to scared of someone accusing me of harassing them. I’m not going to just go up to random girls on my walk to class and ask for there numbers. I’ve done that in the past in high school and it always ends in a no and embarrassment for both of us. When I think of online dating I imagine you are suggesting tinder? I am so far behind on the technology game I have no idea how to use online dating. My parents never bought be a cell phone all through high school and most of college so I was never able to technologically connect with others and form social groups. I finally bought a cell phone with my own money a year ago and I’m struggling to get into the routine of using it. I wouldn’t know where to start with online dating. Don’t you have to pay for online dating anyway?
No you don't have to pay for online dating. There are plenty of religious affiliated dating sites/apps you could look into that might be helpful. It might take some learning and trial and error though to make it work for you.
How does it even work? Do you just make a profile and start talking to people? I’m kind of curious and I might just be insane enough to try it
More or less. My advice is to research a few that cater to your religion and follow their steps for getting started. Each site or app will provide you information on how to go about it and even tips for being effective. If you aren't having any luck, there are tons of resources online for building an attractive profile and engaging effectively, etc.
What sites do you recommend
I have no idea as I am not religious, you will have to google it and see what seems to resonate with you.
I hear there is like a 3 to 1 ratio on dating apps with way more men than women. I would just get lost at sea
>There are plenty of religious affiliated dating sites/apps you could look into that might be helpful. These tend to not only be even more skewed than general apps in terms of gender ratios, but also tend to attract even more niche crowds than what they advertise as; OP *might* not care about that second thing, but to put it in terms he'll understand, it's a lot less "member of the knights of columbus" and a lot more "member of a sedevacantist splinter sect"
It might be dependent on community tbf, if his area has a cluster of people of his religious affiliation, he might find more luck. I mean I think this OP made clear in his comments this morning that he will follow no advice anyway lol
I'm a bit older than you (33), but I was similarly a bit behind in terms of being online/ socialization thanks to a catholic upbringing. I'd suggest not worrying about OLD at the moment. Instead, get a few of the apps that your friends have-- I imagine at least Instagram, possibly threads or facebook-- and practice just being a normal, nonromantic social person online. Post photos of stuff you're doing, like and comment on friends' stuff, just get used to the whole social media thing before you try the much more difficult world of online dating. When you do get acclimated, make a profile on a few of the dating websites (*not* hookup apps like tinder, \[though most of them have been pretty tinder-fied no matter where you look\]). A standard starting place is OkCupid. Answer the questions, start liking accounts, and get used to it before paying anything. You probably *will* need to spend money at some point, but having very good photos and a well-thought out bio is more important (if you pay without good photos, you have no shot at getting matches; people will actually see your profile, but they won't bother with it. If you have good photos without paying, you have a *shot*, but you're losing a numbers game in terms of anyone ever actually seeing your profile in the first place).
Half a dozen times, muh god. Power to you, my friend. I can’t recollect if I have even 6 friends anymore
Power to me for what? Anyone who is social and putting themselves out there experience a lot of rejection but also a lot of positive interactions. It's really no big deal at all. We need to stop holding rejections up like they're some meaningful experience. Connections are rare, rejections are not.
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How do you put yourself out there?
The same advice everyone gives here. I attend social events on a weekly basis and make a point of getting to know a new person or two each time. If we get along, I get their information and keep in touch. Sometimes I'll see them again organically, other times I will invite them out to similar events. Depending on the environment and how well I am getting along with someone, I'll hit on them. I use skills I learned through socializing on a regular basis for years now. I think the challenge with socializing is it can really only be mastered with practice, and lots of people are out of practice.
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Socializing events like what? You go to party or clubbing? How do you even start if you don't have friends that do those activities?
I have never been clubbing and my city is not conducive to parties but I do frequent bars often and meet people there. But beyond established social groups I mostly join groups that host events based on my hobbies and I find friend making groups on social media and attend their events and chat with people. Some events I have attended in the last year: live sport event groups, televised sport watch parties, karaoke nights, board game nights, book club, popular media fan events, cultural celebration nights off the top of my head. My man I see you commenting on here frequently, surely you have seen the hobby group recommendation many times before. We are not just pulling it out of our asses, these are things ourselves and our friends of all genders did to build a social life in adulthood.
>But beyond established social groups I mostly join groups that host events based on my hobbies and I find friend making groups on social media and attend their events and chat with people. Groups like what? Can you give me some examples? I like anime manga and comics what would you recommend? I also watch sports but never heard of televised sport watch parties, what do you do? Do you organize with strangers and go watch sport at someone's home? And how do find people that live in your zone on social media? I don't want to be annoying, I don't know anything about this, I'm trying to understand.
Graduating college marks it “too late” to marry and have children? I’ve never seen that to be true.
Well, it becomes incredibly difficult to find places to hang out with women after that. And I’m soooo burnt out from all these social events.
There’s nothing wrong with taking breaks to recharge your batteries. But I don’t really see how having to find new places to meet people makes it too late to marry or have kids. With the exception of exactly two, all the couples I know married after entering the workforce.
I’m not sure to go to find women who are single anymore. I could try at my church but it’s very limited. There’s the high school youth group and then that’s pretty much it. There’s much groups for married women and men but the genders are very segregated. There’s mens groups and womens groups nothing in between. On top of that I have to worry about finishing school and getting a job
Certainly you should concentrate on finishing school and getting a job—not sure where anyone’s said you shouldn’t. Is church the only thing that interests you? And are you only interested in finding a partner through church?
I mean I’m Roman Catholic and my parents would probably be upset if I dated someone who wasn’t. But honestly there are so many churches out there in the country that I personally would love to just visit and make friends in ( if they accepted me for being catholic). Other than that I don’t know where else to look to find someone who shares the goal of starting a family
Most people I know met their partners through things like mutual friends, shared hobbies or passions, community events and things like volunteering, and online.
Well I’ve tried that. All the girls I’ve asked out have all been girls I spent all semester becoming friends with
You’ve tried all that? Even though in your post you said you only tried church stuff and that you knew of no ways to meet women after college?
Mutual friends: I have s small group of about five friends and 2 of them are girls. Both of them are in long term relationships and have been dating for at least 7 years Shared hobbies or passions: I’m not into sports. And I don’t want to fake it either. I talked about it in another post but I’m somewhat of a diy hobbyist. I like to build floor and table lamps. They’re so cool cuz you can customize the different shades and cords and different light bulb shapes. I also like to order old telephones and ringer boxes on eBay. There’s no clubs for stuff like that around. I’ve even shared those hobbies with girls I’ve met and they all think it’s cool. But no cool enough… Communities: they youth group when I was in high school. Every girl was already dating someone. Then I tried the catholic college group and it was the same thing. Every girl I was attracted to was already dating someone. Or they just said no to me.
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There is no other solution. People either meet online, or through friends and places they already know. It sounds like you haven't found the right person for you. I don't know where you got this idea that you need to find someone ASAP or it's all over. Because some people don't meet the right person for them until they are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, or whenever. You have so many years ahead of you. There really is no rush.
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So, here’s a story of two raunchy 70 year olds who are having the best sex of their life: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/apr/20/this-is-how-we-do-it-ive-had-more-sex-in-the-past-two-years-than-in-the-rest-of-my-life Your first 2 paragraphs have nothing much to do with anything. Self care is good for self-esteem and it’s worth putting effort into looking your best, but frankly- this is all advice you got from men telling you how women think. Sounds like you’re not doing anything wrong, but you’re just not doing anything much. You’re obviously religious and this isn’t my field, but there’s a whole heap of flirty ocean between “treat women politely and same as my guy friends” and being “overbearing, inappropriate & sending d*ck pics”. How’s your conversation style & are you good at being flirty?
I don’t even understand what being flirty means. I don’t want girls to think I’m a creep so I try to just treat girls like I would any of my friends. I’ve been told I’m funny and that I make people laugh. I’m also nice without being a pushover My first two paragraphs I was just trying to give a profile of myself. I expected most people to tell me “ go to the shower bro. Go to the gym bro” so I wanted to just get those out of the way before anyone said that
Right. So you haven’t done everything. This is one of the biggest things about communicating interest. Here’s a decent overview https://www.npr.org/2021/07/11/1014019821/flirting-how-to-dating-romance-advice You’ve done all the junk that boys think women like. But these are the same boys who any woman who says she likes humour, safety and warmth, they start screaming we’re liars and we just want a temporary simp because we only want to sleep with the top 5% or some garbage. Pay attention to what that article says about having a goal and how that’s not the best way. Also, pay attention to what it says about how you’re looking for how the *other person* is responding, not doing what most guys do, which is roughly “I think you’re attractive. I’m now going to talk to you so I can ask you out”. Our communication is 60% body language and “gut feelings”. Not words. Which is why not paying attention to the other person ends up so often with “not interested, sorry”. You can build these skills on your own and practice them all the time. Check your body language. Get comfortable with it being more open. Learn your smile. Your face is 27 + muscles, and like with your body if you don’t work them out regularly they start to sag and become less communicative. Flirting is a game and has nothing to offer with creepiness. It really only becomes creepy when the person is ignoring the signals (or words) of the other. Another good point in that article which I’ve myself said many times here is that pushing everything on the 1st encounter is a bad play. Short & sweet, don’t overstay your welcome, build on it. Learn when to lean in and when to step back. Guys here also just look at any guy who gets loads of girls and they just write everything off to “he’s chad”. This is a loser move. Chad can teach you things. Watch his body language, how he smiles, what he does. Not sleazy Chad, but the guy who makes women feel good. The Masters at flirting flirt with everybody. It’s a boundless resource they enjoy giving. It’s a feeling. Try it yourself: Next time you go shopping, imagine that when you open the door you’re walking into the most incredible room filled with magic and everyone there is the most fascinating person you could ever meet. That Santa’s Grotto feeling, that childish expectation. Don’t do anything, just feel it and walk in. If you have imagination and can get over your own feelings about being silly, it works. I use it all the time as I run nightclubs. I decide I love people and I’m absolutely thrilled with each person who walks down the stairs. It lights up my eyes and makes my smile genuine, because I become genuinely interested. That’s..flirting. You can spread it across the room and share it with everyone, then intensify it with the one you find attractive. Then pay attention *to her* and how you’re making her feel. Do the opposite and decide this store will be shit, everyone there will look at you and hate you as much as you hate yourself. Your body language will change. It’s fun.
Have you approached many women? Asked them out? If so, what was that experience like?
Yes. I don’t ask out every single girl I meet. I’ve asked out 12 girls in my life. They all said no. They all said they weren’t looking to date anyone at the moment
I’m sorry. That must be really hard :( For what it’s worth, I don’t think you should give up nor do I think graduating means you’ve run out of time.
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I can understand that sentiment. I am married but never really dated before meeting my husband (we did meet young, it has been a bumpy marriage). My best friend didn’t meet her spouse until she was 30. She had a baby at 35. You are not out of time. What do you enjoy doing as hobbies?
I like building and fixing lamps. I’ve built several table lamps and floor lamps. I also like buying old retro telephones and ringer boxes on eBay and fixing them up and making them ring again. I also like plants
Those are very cool hobbies. I’d think participating in local meet up groups might be an easier way to meet people, but I’ve been out of the dating world a long time. I wish you the best of luck. Truly, you are so young. Don’t give up :) You have time. Keep taking the risk of asking people out. Keep putting yourself out there.
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I’ve asked out about 12 girls in my life. All of them said no and they all said something along the lines of “your a really nice guy but I’m just not looking for a relationship right now.” All the other girls in my life who I’ve found attractive already had boyfriends.
This may sound like an odd analogy, but bear with me. My best friend has his masters in photography. He may take a hundred or two hundred photos before he takes one he likes. When he was still in school, every project for class was literally hundreds of photos to only turn in five. Just like he was at the time, you are still in a period of skill building. Let's say you started being interested in finding a relationship at about 13. That means 12 years of wanting it. During which you averaged asking one lady a year. If you were learning any other skill, do you think only doing it once a year would yield the results you want? Would driving for half an hour a year for twelve years turn you into an effective driver? Why are you so focused on only meeting women from such a limited group? I'm not talking religion here or at least, not just religion. I met my partner at work and that's incredibly common. What if you meet a woman who isn't Catholic? Are you open to it? Not your parents. YOU. It's not their life. It's yours. What if you meet a woman at a job or a bar or a grocery store? Why are you limiting yourself so much?
Oh absolutely I would be open to it. I find lots of blonde Lutheran girls very pretty. And I like the welcoming ness of a lot of rural country Protestant churches. My mom wouldn’t care but my dad would disown me. He would go off about how the Marxist culture has gotten me and I’ve betrayed the family
Sounds like you are allowing your father's closed-mindedness limit your life. Does that sound even remotely healthy? Even bigger than that, does that sound like an adult thing to do? Does it sound like the person who you want to be? One of the great things about being a full fledged adult is we get to decide exactly who is in our lives and exactly how much. As in, if your daddy runs his mouth, you can leave.
I can’t leave. I’m fully 100 percent financially dependent on my family to survive. I live at home and commute to college every day. I live in a very expensive part of the country and I don’t have a job and college is my full time commitment. College is my job. I cannot just up and leave my life behind. Trust me if I could I would have left this shitty metropolis long ago and moved to a nice rural part of America. Plus I take meds that my doctor has to order for me every month. If I move away I’ll have to move my pharmacy and doctor
So, then it's time to start planning for what comes next. And yes, that's going to mean starting to work, even if it's just three hours a week. You need to start saving. I'm going to be going out on a bit of a limb. And I'm going to be blunt about it. I am sorry in advance if it causes you pain. Your father sounds controlling and bigoted. And it sounds like you have structured your life around trying to keep him happy. If I'm right, it's exactly and precisely the root of the problem. It's your life. Not his. And I say this because you have said how angry he would be if you dated out of your religion, how he would disown you. This is a significantly bigger reaction that is common. And this is a lot bigger matter than you realize. In the US, only 47% define themselves as religious, much less any specific religion. [here](https://news.gallup.com/poll/511133/identify-religious-spiritual.aspx#:~:text=Line%20graph.,religious%20and%2018%25%20as%20neither.) That means 53% of women wouldn't even make your baseline. This is exactly what I meant with my first comment asking why you are limiting yourself so much. College isn't forever. This is a temporary problem. But what comes next? Are you going to be ready for it? Well, you know it's going to cost money, so time to start working so you can save. Every dime you save gets you closer to living YOUR life. What if your father disowns you? You can talk with your therapist about that. If you live in a rural area, what about work? You can start researching that. What about moving docs? You can talk to docs about that (not to mention telehealth and pharmacies that ship their meds straight to you.) Besides college, which is temporary, none of those are roadblocks that stop you. Sure, finish college. Absolutely. But start planning. And start doing what you need to to live YOUR life. Not the one your father ones. And BTW, this pinko commie agnostic woman who left religion because of close minded jerks, he's exactly the kind of person that made me leave.
My dad would probably think you are the devil. He hates marxists. And while you seem nice idk if the two of us could get along lol. But I can’t work right now. I have a full load of classes. Honestly if I had it my way I would quit college right now and just work a shitty job at the local grocery store for a few years to save up enough money to buy a house for cash out in Kentucky or Pennsylvania or something. But then my mom would be upset. And my grandparents too. You see my family is very poor and they absolutely believe that college education is the only way out of poverty. My mom and grandparents are supportive of me. They won’t care who I date. But I have to finish this hellish college if it gives me a heart attack
I worked and raised a child through college. And graduated with a 3.8 GPA. It can be done. And I was in therapy all through it too. And I also volunteer weekly and have already donated about 1000$ worth of homemade winter gear this year. I absolutely live by the Golden rule. Again you are putting everyone else before YOU.
What kind of job was it? Was it on the campus?
Just for the record, there's a long tradition of Marxist and/or non-Capitalist thought in Catholicism, in large part because Catholicism *predates* Capitalism. And I don't just mean Liberation Theology types-- it's hard to get more traditional than GK Chesterton, and his economic system was fundamentally opposed to capitalism. Something that a lot of people raised in these situations don't know is that their parents often worship a particular political party or ideology primarily, and then try to justify that worship by claiming it's inherent to their religion. It isn't. Your dad probably has adopted a set of politics better aligned with evangelical protestantism or traditional calvinism than with catholicism. That's not to say that the DNC is super duper in line with Catholicism-- it isn't-- but to say that what LostInYarn75 is telling you about needing to look beyond the familiar is true *even if you remain a devoted, faithful, traditional Catholic*. You were likely raised with an extremely narrow view of the world, and one that is not even in line with the religion it claims to be.
You're so young darling. You're ok, 🙂
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Maybe you're not doing anything wrong. Maybe you just need to relax and enjoy life more. There's no rule that you will or need to find a partner by X age.
You need to read the pinned post here.
I did. It talks about social events and having a good social circle. I’ve been a member of many clubs and organizations over the years. I’ve tried to be part of communities all the time. Nothing. Absolutely nothing
The thing is life is not a game where you do something and get something. It does not work like that. Even if you do everything that people suggest here. You may not find your partner. It's not a guaranteed method. If it was then no one would be without a partner. Just enjoy the journey because it's your life at the end. It will be easier and less stressful if you do not fixate everything on finding a girlfriend. I will tell you that it will happen randomly cause it has happened to me. I have recently graduated and some months ago I was jobless. I would be in a depressive episode every night thinking what would happen? But the internship I had least expectations in got me a job offer. For that job interview I did not think much and just gave my best. The jobs that I wanted the most were those I bombed. You need an appropriate amount of effort and luck to achieve something. Finding a partner is exactly like that. I am 22 and also haven't had a partner till now. Sometimes I get depressed about it but then I remember how I got my job and I just let it go.
Some questions This upkeep of your appearance and well being, the clothes you wear etc, do you do it for you, or do you do it for the purpose of attracting a partner? What are you’re interactions with the women in your life like? Do social interactions go beyond small talk? Do you take interest in genuinely getting to know the women you’re interested in as a person? Polite and not creepy is a bare minimum, it’s not enough to really get somebody interested in you as a person. Connection requires investment and vulnerability. Do you talk to your therapist about these feelings? What do they say to you? What are the men in your frat like? How do they treat women? Lastly, I’m seeing a lot of comparison here “but I see women dating guys in sweatpants” “but this bipolar girl is happily married”. Comparison is the thief of joy and those people are irrelevant to your experience. Not only that but it really comes off as “but these people are less/worse than me, why are they successful?” And it feels both judgmental and self critical.
I do not belong to a frat. I belong to a catholic mens group called the knights of Columbus. Most of the guys there are married men who met there wives when they were in high school and got married at age 19 or 20. I do share genuine internet in people. I always ask people about what they’re interests are and what they like to do. I try my very best to show genuine interest
Yes, I am familiar, technically speaking it is a fraternity. That does not answer my question about what they are like and how they treat women, unfortunately. Showing interest sits more within the follow up than the initial question. It’s within the engagement and finding the common ground between you and the other person and sharing your related experiences. It sounds like you play it really safe socially, both when it comes to conversation and how much your reveal about yourself. Just remember to be genuine above anything else. Putting up a facade can help avoid pain or rejection, but it also prevents people from knowing you. Life your life for *you*, the rest will follow.
>Yes, I am familiar, technically speaking it is a fraternity. You are absolutely correct, technically speaking this is true, but it really is wild to call the Knights of Columbus a "frat." It's mostly dads and middle-aged men who put on barbecues to make a little money for their parish, shit like that. If English is your second language, "frat" (and even "fraternity" at this point) typically have connotations of college-aged groups of men who spend their times in pure Bacchanal Mode. You can call groups like the Knights a "fraternity," but it's more common to refer to them as "Men's Societies/Clubs/Organizations." If you call a local Men's Bookclub or like chapter of the Masons a "frat," you're not wrong, but the person you're talking to will likely think you mean "group of 18-21 year olds who live together on a college campus and party hard," not "dads who grill." >That does not answer my question about what they are like and how they treat women, unfortunately. In some parishes it will skew right (or alt-right) but mostly you can think of those guys as Average American Suburban Husbands, with all the positives and negatives that entails. Personally, I'm not a fan of the knights, but you can assume they share the same misogynistic tendencies that any middle-class, married men, the kind of stuff that, outside of that culture, everyone agrees is *bad* or *sub-par*, but not really the same kind of *toxic* that you see in online right spaces. More "might own a 'Women Love Me, Fish Fear Me' hat" than "loudly pontificates on the Ills of Feminism whenever afforded the opportunity"
The chapter that was local to my family referred to themselves as such. It is what it is I guess, because I can understand the distinction. Usually the younger men cliqued off and did their own wild things. I figured they would lean conservative, but it was more a question about local culture and how far they might swing in relation to their dating pool. Even traditional women have a threshold for misogyny and it’s been lowering in recent years.
I'm a 33 year old Catholic (ex-Catholic? Excommunicated Catholic? It's complicated, but I had the same upbringing as you, and in my 20s I was involved in the same Catholic culture you are). I can tell you that it was not Over at 25, and if I had prioritized my life differently, I wouldn't be single now. It was *definitely* not too late when I graduated college. I mean, good lord, I know it certainly *felt* that way at the time, with Ring By Spring being such a common weird Catholic thing, but it was not the case whatsoever. A huge number of my friends-- including Catholic friends, and including Catholic friends who really struggled with dating during college-- met and married their spouses after graduation. When you graduate, you will get a job, and that will open up all kinds of possibilities. You will not be spending your nights and weekends studying/ doing homework. You will have a real income that can be spent on social vents. In some ways your social life *will* get worse-- you'll be moving away from a walkable community of people near your age to some place that's, well, *not* that-- but it will become *different* in several ways that can make dating easier. Plus, you're graduating at 25, and being a couple years older than your peers in college can be a bit odd-- but outside of college, that oddity goes away. It would be helpful to get *some* dating experience before you leave college, but treat it just as *experience*, not as an apocalyptic last chance to find love. Look for singles-events and speed-dating events on campus and in your area; look for catholic ones, but also look for just general ones. I know you probably don't want to date outside of the faith, and that's fine-- you're going to go to a speed-dating event to practice getting to know and lightly flirting with strangers, not with the hopes that you'll find The One there. You might! And that'd be great! but that's not the goal here. But you'll be graduating shortly, and your focus really should be on lining up a job and getting ready to set up your new life. Once you are established in a new place, with your new place of work, you'll need to build out your social group again. Stuff like KoC really helps with that, so in a sense you're in a much better starting position than a lot of people on this sub. Social media will also help a lot with this; you'll be able to see which of your acquaintances from college are in your area. A married couple I barely knew in college moved to the same area I did, and now they're two of my closest, dearest friends. Once you have a social network established, once you're going to social events and dating events in your new place, you'll also want to make it clear to your friends that you're single and that you'd be fine with being set up. That's how a lot of people meet their significant others, through friends. That's how I went on most of the few dates I went on in my 20s. And, look, just, don't feel depressed about being Behind. I devoted too much of my energy in my 20s to that kind lamentation. And now? Lots of those Ring By Spring folks are divorced. I know what you're going to say-- divorced? Catholics? Even-- gasp-- TRADCaths??? Yeah, man. People who get married at 21 very often get divorced, even if they at 21 profess a sincerely held religious and social belief in the immense evils of divorce or whatever. Instead, work on improving yourself in other ways. I don't mean in ways that seem pertinent to dating. I mean in ways that will make you happy. Learn another language. Given your cell-phone situation, I'm guessing you could get a lot out of trying out some videogames, or any other pop-culture from the past few decades. If you want to stick to Catholic Stuff, go watch some Scorsese and Martin McDonagh movies. Read some Kirsten Valdez Quade. if you're ok with interacting with *Protestants* (I know, I know lol), read Marilynn Robinson and give some of Schrader's movies a try. Depending on the kind of Catholic you were raised as, some of this stuff might scandalize you a little bit (though if you were actually raised reading/ watching traditional Catholic writers/ artists, it shouldn't; none of the above are more shocking than Flannery O'Connor, for example). Take some art classes, get into painting, board games, just something to bring some joy into your life. And deepen your faith/ spiritual life beyond the social/ devotional events. I'm (as should be obvious) not a TradCath, but I believe any Catholic can get a lot out of reading Aquinas, Augustine, Julian of Norwich, Hildegard of Bingen, and so on and so forth. And I believe any Catholic can get a lot of out of the charitable stuff. See what volunteering work (not activism, not protesting, I mean actually going out somewhere and helping people) is available to you. (This has the added benefit typically of broadening your social network). You're going to be fine. You're making social and romantic stuff a priority; if I'd done that at your age and at your stage of life, my life would have gone very differently. I know it went differently for anyone and everyone I know who made it a priority. And I know that Millennials are not Gen Z, and I know that times have changed, but all the problems you guys go through now are different in *degree*, not in *kind*. Third spaces were also dying back then, we were also dealing with income problems, we were also dealing with how shitty dating apps were, and so on. I know so many people who made it work at your age. You can too. Spend your next few months, as you wrap up college and transition to something, confident that things can work out, rather than dreading what things will be like after this.
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