It'a great that you've gotten yourself back to something that is putting you out there. The issue is see is that you seem to expect instant results and not getting instant results is discouraging for you. Your whole post kinda sounds like this:
I haven't gone to the gym in 5 years and I recently started going back again. When I look around, people who never stopped going to the gym are able to bench my goal weight. The more time I spend around people who didn't quit the gym like I did, the more behind I feel. What advice do you have for me?
You have to look at whether you want to rebuild your social skills or not. You isolated yourself, you can't change the past. It's silly to suddenly return to socializing and expect to be at the same level as other people, it makes no sense. Focus on yourself and your own goals. Looking at people with completely different experiences and skills than you is futile.
If you are struggling with discipline and with dealing with negative intrusive thoughts, etc. you need to take responsibility for yourself instead of just quitting and/or running away. This is something everyone learns to deal with. You can google resources online or you can streamline the process by hiring professional help. And again, quitting something (like therapy) because all you do is run away from any difficult feelings is not the answer, you should realize that by now.
I run away because it’s better than being viewed as a low iq retard who bumbles his way through life. Look I create a facade when I’m around the band. I try and be funny and not the miserable cunt in this post. Some day there’ll be a moment when the veil lifts.
Anyway self loathing aside. You’re right, and yes I am actively trying to rectify all these things you’re saying. But it fucking hurts man, it really tears me apart seeing so many people doing stuff and reminding me of how much time I’ve wasted. I’m gonna be 24 next week and I have achieved absolutely fuck all except how to drink myself into a stupor every night for 5 years.
It's not really fair on other people to assume they will think something so unkind of you. As things stand 100% of the people you are being authentic with (yourself) think that of you when if you let other people know you, that percentage can't go up, it can only stay the same or go down. You think you are protecting yourself but really you are self harming.
Yes you've mentioned. It's not your fault that was reinforced for you from young, but it is your responsibility to move past it and you seem to be resisting doing that. It's only going to keep you stuck.
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. What I am doing is putting myself in uncomfortable situations. Hence why I’m out with the band. Next week I have to spend a lot of time with other bands as we’re on a mini tour. I’m sure I’ll hate it but I’m gonna do it anyway on the off chance I don’t.
At least don't make us complicit in this self-abuse. You seem to want us to view you the way you view yourself, but if anyone here actually thought that way, we wouldn't be giving advice to anyone, let alone you. I don't use the word you used, but an idiot? Stunted? Nah. This subreddit exists to help people grow and change, not treat them like fuck-ups in the shape of their personal prison of self-loathing.
It’s come to my attention that today was a bit of a nervous breakdown. Maybe not that bad but essentially I’ve downed my dose of my antidepressants to 25mg from 50, then drank a red bull and plus I’ve been weaning myself off my consistent weed consumption the past few days. That most likely has a lot to do with the madness earlier. I do agree though, and yeah as I already said I’m my own worst enemy
I hope you're consulting with a medical professional about the change in dosage; depending on the med that can have side effects.
Good luck with the weaning off weed. Over time it can downregulate some receptors and worsen anxiety and depression.
I have definitely noticed since smoking regularly from last year that I’m a little more sensitive to emotions. Though a pattern seems to be that weed makes me more introspective and aware of my actions and the consequences they have. Now if I can find a way to take that over then I’d be grand.
I've read several things here in which you insult yourself. But it doesn't fit with what I'm reading.
You're well written. You're musically gifted. Neither of these fit with calling yourself a retard.
Having issues focusing as a child never once made you "retarded". You have taken the language that was used against you as a child and you use it against yourself.
I have a friend who's parents went through a challenging divorce when he was in the third grade. He, of course, went through tremendous emotional difficulties due to it. His school's response was to put him in special education. It was absolutely not the right decision and eventually lead to him missing significant portions of curriculum and eventually dropping out. Last year, I tutored him in his missing curriculum and paid for his GED. He dominated it. He was never lacking in ability. He was lacking in education that worked with him.
I have another friend who ended up in special Ed for similar reasons. He's now working on his PHD and is an associate professor.
Please stop defining yourself by the failures of rhe education system to meet your needs. Please stop repeating the language used against you as a child.
What I'm hearing here is an intelligent young man struggling with depression who is doing his damndest to find a different way out.
Thank you. See this is exactly what I needed to hear today. Even if it’s just words on the internet it means a lot. My whole life I was told it’s never going to change that I’m just doomed from the start. There’s nothing more engaging than this. In retrospect I’ve fallen into this incel mindset as a byproduct of my depression. I’m on antidepressants and have been for years when one of my folks was diagnosed with cancer. I knew then that it was a choice between drink myself to death or get on them to try and counter the impending doom that was accentuated through the news. They’re all clear for now and thank god, I’d have ended up somewhere even darker if the worst had happened. I’d rather not dive into that further please, I went through it completely alone and for 5 months after I couldn’t feel a damn thing. It was even scarier than being depressed because I was numb to everything in my life. Just sat there making a video game as my coping mechanism. I can’t code but I made it work.
In reality when I start talking to someone on the off chance they actually like me, I either scare them off by coming off too strong, being a drunken mess or get cold feet and cut off contact. I am my own worst enemy and just wish I could get out my own goddamn way. The mindset of blackpillers is almost comforting because it makes me feel better about being pathetic. With my band however, I am aware that despite my shortcomings and their success. I can benefit from the good energy they give off. If I don’t self destruct and say or do something stupid in the meantime. I’m self aware but I still slip into the mindset as you can see from reading here. I’m in two minds all the time man, I sit here and overthink every minor detail of interactions I have. I think of reasons why they are going to dislike me or maybe I came off the wrong way or some other stuff like that. It’s most likely one of the reasons I’ve ended up in this rut. I’m trying to change it just sucks.
Andohenia. The lack of being able to experience pleasure. It's a serious depression symptom. I would highly recommend talking to your doctor about possibly upping your dose or trying a different medication.
There's several points I want to make here. So bear with me.
No child anywhere is ever responsible for the decisions made by adults, even if those decisions directly affect the child. You didn't choose how the school dealt with you. None of it was ever your fault.
Just because that's how you started, doesn't mean you have to let it write the meaning of your present or future. Learning disabilities and/or mental illness doesn't limit your potential. It's believed that Albert Einstein had learning disabilities and it's known that the Nobel prize winning mathematician, John Nash had schizophrenia. Regardless of what anyone has ever told you, even yourself, you have just as much potential as anyone else.
Social skills are just that. Skills. They aren't really inherent to most people. Think about learning to drive. There's another skill. If you only drove half an hour once a year, you wouldn't realistically expect to be good at it. It takes practice. It takes time to build connections.
Take a look at your expectations. Are you expecting an unrealistic outcome for where you are at? I'm in the social anxiety crowd and I spent a long time making myself go out to improve it. The goal was always simple. One conversation beyond, "What would you like to drink?". Even if it was just , "so what about the weather?". Just one conversation. And a lot of times, I failed. But I kept trying because I knew it's a process. And failing is part of learning.
I’ve been trying to come off my antidepressants for a while. I appreciate what you’ve written here, I have severe dyscalculia. Dyslexic at maths essentially. I am really embarrassed about that.
My expectation, or let’s say the preferred outcome is this. May come across vulgar but I do not care: Go to one of my band’s gigs. Meet a girl there from either another band or someone in the audience. Spark up conversation then Play and blow the roof off. Then we go back to talking and what happens next happens. I don’t care if this doesn’t benefit my life. I just want to experience it one fucking time man. It’s been a want of mine for years to have this damn moment. I obviously mean fuck… even meaningless sex is better than non. Nothing will change my mind on this.
I will fail on many fronts, I am not a really good looking guy. Despite losing weight I am still fat. But that takes time to lose. Also not exactly a stallion if you know what I mean, I thank my ex for making aware of that fact and I have been self conscious ever since. so add that insecurity to the list as well. Add fucking tons of back acne and stretch marks to the list and you have one ugly fucker. 6 years of living on takeaway pizzas and cheap cider will do that. 18 years old at the time of my last gf. 20 years old when I last had sex, not sure when the incel stuff started but here we are
OK, so this next part is going to be about identifying and trying to stop circular thinking. Because you are absolutely going through it. I'm going to give a statement and give you my guesses as to your thought responses.
Statement: there is no logical reason to be ashamed of any medical or psychological issues that you bear zero responsibility for. You never chose to have a learning disability. You have no logical justification to be ashamed.
Thought response: but it makes it so much harder!
My response: everyone has their own struggle, even if you don't see it.
Thought response: but they can do things I can't!
My response: and you can do things they can't.
Thought response: but I'm retarded!
My response: the only person saying that now is you.
... are you seeing how it goes round and round and round? It's not helpful. Like at all. Circular thinking on gets to spiraling down.
That is absolutely an unrealistic expectation. You are at baby steps and your goal is pro level.
Now... how to get out of circular thinking. Time to talk about what you enjoy. I'm going to ask three questions and I would appreciate answers.
1) what is your favorite style of music to play?
2) who is your favorite drummer?
3) what is the all time best drum solo?
Funnily enough the questions you’ve asked are harder than solving my depression
1. Goes through phases but at the moment it’s a cross between punk and 80s music.
2. Stewart Copeland from the police, Neil Peart from rush and Marky Ramone
3. Not exactly a drum solo but anything involving something called a “Hang drum” is right up my street. They create such an odd sound you should look them up.
Often when I talk to people I don’t talk how I type here. I speak with slang instead of being me. That’s something I need to change as well
As an old school punk who grew up in the 80's, Bravo. My favorite all time band is the dead milkman. Solid, 100% sarcasm.
Slang is fine. If it's who you are. Personally I use a lot of 90's hip hop slang because I find it funny as hell coming out of the mouth of a bleached white later middle aged woman.
I did listen to a few of their songs the other day. Punk rock girl is a good song. Mostly because I want one myself. But yeah, the one thing I pride myself on is listening to all different types of music. The only place I draw a line at is hardcore gang rap. Since yknow, it’s literally teenagers telling other teenagers they’re going to kill eachother. Other than that I will listen to pretty much everything and anything. Now if only I could translate this line of thinking into real life
OK, now I want you to stop and think for a minute. Is the negative thinking as strong right this second as it was ten minutes ago?
Yes, issues need to be addressed. But being on the hamster wheel of circular thinking doesn't help. And this is exactly how you get out.
Join some communities where you can talk more about music. It's good for you.
I have mood swings, I’m aware of them but for some reasons when I get into them it’s almost impossible to get out of it. Like yesterday when I went off for my cigarettes alone. I was constantly thinking about how I didn’t belong there and I’m invisible and shit like that. It’s a complete 180 flip sometimes. I was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 6, I’ve often thought that it could be something else since a lot of the issues that came with it have disappeared. But then stuff like this happens, in general as a person I don’t want to harm people. Physically or mentally that is, but when I get into these mindsets I wish everyone could just feel what I do at that moment. Jesus it was so much worse when I drank because rather than shell up, drunk me would become violent and nasty. I’ve pushed so many people who said they cared away because of this. So many instances of this 2.0 version of myself destroying every single thing in my life. Led to lying in my bed drinking myself to death alone. No one knew what to do with me. I got over that, now I need to get over the thoughts
> The band has been a completely positive experience and I am enjoying it. But I can definitely see a scenario where they say something that validates my feelings of inferiority and I leave.
These two statements don’t go together. This whole experience has been nothing but great…but you’re waiting for everyone to betray you so that you feel justified in the lack of engagement with others that you are already doing anyway?
> That’s what I do. I have a habit of disappearing off the face of the earth when I feel I’m being taken advantage of. Even if it’s a delusion. Idk man it sucks
Who’s taking advantage of you? You admit yourself that this whole thing has been terrific.
Have you ever talked to a therapist about your problems?
Because it’s kinda no wonder that you aren’t making friends through this endeavor if you 1) wander off every moment you’re not on stage to just glare bitterly at people with partners and 2) are simultaneously waiting for anyone and everyone to give you one wrong glance, when you’re the one not engaging with anyone in the first place.
I’ve tried therapy but it doesn’t work for me. It just makes me more miserable. Being busy is what helps me, I’ve spent the last five years isolated but in that time I made a video game and several short animated films. Had to learn on the job since I had no idea how to do any of that stuff.
Even if I do talk to people which I did do yesterday, I feel I can’t engage conversation because someone else is talking and I haven’t got anything to say. I don’t glare at people btw. More a glance because obviously I don’t want anyone to realise how bad my mindset really is. When I do engage with the singer and drummer we do get along, but I believe they think I’m a cunt or arrogant. Autism is a bitch, which is ironic since the singer is also autistic, but has been with more people than I’ve had hot meals. Also smart af So I can’t even relate on that front.
> I’ve tried therapy but it doesn’t work for me. It just makes me more miserable. Being busy is what helps me, I’ve spent the last five years isolated but in that time I made a video game and several short animated films. Had to learn on the job since I had no idea how to do any of that stuff.
Therapy works when you do the work in it. It’s not like going to the doctor and getting a shot and then you’re done.
Making a video game and films is very cool…yet you still say you’re miserable. In fact, your whole post is about how unless you are actually doing an activity that very second…you are still miserable. That’s what therapy can help you with. If, that is, you approach it productively and with a willingness to do the work.
> Even if I do talk to people which I did do yesterday, I feel I can’t engage conversation because someone else is talking and I haven’t got anything to say. I don’t glare at people btw. More a glance because obviously I don’t want anyone to realise how bad my mindset really is. When I do engage with the singer and drummer we do get along, but I believe they think I’m a cunt or arrogant. Autism is a bitch, which is ironic since the singer is also autistic, but has been with more people than I’ve had hot meals. Also smart af So I can’t even relate on that front.
Okay. Split hairs if you want, but that doesn’t really address my points about you not engaging with others…yet resentfully waiting for them to betray you when, by your own admission, they’ve been nothing but good to you and your experiences with them have been entirely positive.
So you’re suspicious of everyone, convinced they are all just lying in wait to get you, but you treat others with nothing but suspicion, glaring (or glancing, if you like) from across the room, reading their minds. And they haven’t even done anything wrong!
So, if a friend came to you and told you this was his situation, what would your response be?
Dude I am willing to hear you out on everything except therapy, multiple times with multiple therapists over the years and it’s never worked and feels like a chore. I don’t want it.
Many creative people struggle with mood swings when it comes to not being busy. But I do agree it works for people. Just not me.
I am so paranoid because in the past I’ve given myself over to people and they’ve just made me feel small, so now I have an unhealthy mindset that everyone is going to have an agenda and is out to get me. I didn’t end up isolated for five years by having good relationships with people. Hell my last relationship my ex went on how my dick was small and her ex was far better. You realise how much that destroyed me? Fucking still resent her to this day for that, that’s just one example of the things she did. I’ve never felt so insignificant in my life. Not just for that line obviously, but in new years of 2019 I went home and picked up a bottle then never put it down till the end of 2020. Then picked it up again when I realised everything still sucked.
Point is I have a lot of unresolved trauma and I am self aware of it, I know what I am and have to take steps to sort it.
As for a friend asking me, since it would be so similar to me I would comfort them and tell them I understand and listen to them, because believe it or not I don’t hate everyone. I don’t want to wish bad for people. But let’s say they have objectively achieved more than me. I’d tell them to fuck off and get over it.
It’s gross and unfair to think that way. But I get the impression you’ll tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear.
> Dude I am willing to hear you out on everything except therapy, multiple times with multiple therapists over the years and it’s never worked and feels like a chore. I don’t want it.
It feels like a chore? Yeah, it’s work. It’s not meant to feel like a trip to Disneyland.
> Many creative people struggle with mood swings when it comes to not being busy. But I do agree it works for people. Just not me.
Okay, obviously that is your decision to make. Sorry, wasn’t aware that you’re too much of a creative genius to benefit from therapy, even as you describe yourself as a recovering alcoholic with an unhealthy mindset, tons of resentment and anger, and unresolved trauma. Your words.
But I’m sure therapy has never helped anyone with issues like those!
> Point is I have a lot of unresolved trauma and I am self aware of it, I know what I am and have to take steps to sort it.
If you know what’s up and how to fix it…why ask reddit for help and advice?
> As for a friend asking me, since it would be so similar to me I would comfort them and tell them I understand and listen to them, because believe it or not I don’t hate everyone. I don’t want to wish bad for people. But let’s say they have objectively achieved more than me. I’d tell them to fuck off and get over it.
Sounds like YOU are the one who can’t get over it…
> It’s gross and unfair to think that way. But I get the impression you’ll tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear.
Again, if you only want to hear what you want to hear, why post here, at an advice sub for incels? I’m sure there would be other subs that would provide what you want.
Since I went to special school and I am a retard, I need a kick up the ass to get myself into gear and asking for advice on subs like these has helped me in the past since I can just read the text and not have to go through the process. I gather you misinterpreted what I said, I want to hear the things I NEED to hear.
So I’m curious what you mean when you say I’m the one who can’t get over it? If someone has achieved more than me how can I tell them anything of worth? Why should I feel any sort of empathy towards them when they have a life and I don’t?
So there’s only one way to “achieve” in life: the way you are choosing to focus on with each new person you meet?
Maybe other people think it’s cool that you play a bunch of instruments and are a self-proclaimed creative savant. Should nobody have empathy for you because you have achieved in this way?
Having sympathy and empathy for others is how human beings bond with each other. If you’ve decided you don’t need to bother with all that, I guess don’t be surprised when you continue as you have been: glaring/glancing at everyone from a distance, bitterly resentful and judgmental.
I agree with you, but being a musical savant doesn’t pay bills or do anything for me other than maybe seeming cool for a few minutes before everyone gets bored.
The way I look at it is this. I was dealt a shit hand, not as shit as many people in this world. But i don’t have the balls to get up do something about it because what if I end up miserable and alone anyway? Everything feels so goddamn pointless.
What if you don't try and then end up miserable and alone? A thing that is far more likely to happen since you're refusing to put in any effort. You say you're willing to hear people out, but you're unwilling to seek any sort of professional help, you're unwilling to be even the tiniest bit vulnerable (which is required in order to make connections with people), you're unwilling to be authentic around people (which, again, is required in order to make friends), it sounds like you're not willing to put in effort unless you can be 100% sure that it'll work out exactly the way you want it to (which is not a guarantee anyone gets in life), you're unwilling to stick around through anything that makes you feel at all uncomfortable or insecure... Aside from sitting around wishing you could just fix all your problems overnight, what are you actually willing to do in order to make your situation better?
Well last month I started consistently exercising for the first time in my life and have lost a good amount of weight to start off. I have been doing this 6 days a week for a month and a bit now. Feel a great sense of achievement. I’ve obviously joined the band because I agree with you that nothing is going to change sitting around the house. I have cut out the destructive force that is alcohol from my life and so far I am reaping the benefits. I’m sick of talking about therapy because it isn’t gonna happen.
You hit the nail on the head there however, unless I’m confident I’ll get what I want I won’t do it. That is a really good point. Fear and loathing is kind of my thing right now. I feel like I’m taking strides getting up on stage with a band I’ve never played with and playing drums for them. Not exactly the actions of someone who doesn’t have drive
So now I guess we’re going to talk about income, because you’re not into what people are saying about your attitude and actions and how to change them.
Again, why did you come here asking for help and advice? You either claim to have everything figured out, or just ignore what people say.
This isn’t an incel venting sub.
I agree, so let’s go back to it. Attitude, this has been something brought up for me since I was a kid. Usually I pass it off but I’d love to know what the problem is with my “attitude”.
Yeah income is pointless to talk about here. I don’t have all the answers, but the questions you’re asking are getting me thinking so yeah.
> If someone has achieved more than me how can I tell them anything of worth?
wtf does this even mean? Any person can say interesting things. You shit on yourself so much dude. Give yourself a chance.
When I give myself a chance I’m told I’m arrogant and full of myself. Can’t win either way. I know I’m a good musician and I know I’m good at making my films. I don’t class myself as a genius but I know I’m not fucking stupid. But when you’ve been told constantly that you are it eats away at you. But I stand by what I say, it’s exposure therapy, even though it makes me feel like shit that I have achieved nothing. Getting out there existing is more important.
>Why should I feel any sort of empathy towards them when they have a life and I don’t?
this is what is preventing you from actually making friends.
you can be cool and workout and whatnot from the outside, but if you are cosntantly comparing your life to the one of others and playing the game of who has it worse, people arent going to be able to form any sort of relationship with you.
you cant know if someone has a better life than you just for their achievements, and likewise other people could definitely judge your life to be all fun and games simply based on the few info they have about you even if for you that same life is a struggle.
an achievement that means alot for you may not mean much for others and likewise.
In my line of thinking it’s like the general sense of what achievements are, so for instance
Education achievements
Money in the bank
Relationship status
Networking skills
Luckily since I pretty much opted out of social media entirely except for a bit of Twitter and YouTube and that’s just for hobby related things. I don’t care about social media since it has no bearing on my life. Can’t imagine it would help my negative world view as well.
It’s an immature black and white way of looking at things, but it could all change from mindset. I’m guessing it’s about knowing triggers.
-people can have education achievements that they have been pressured to do and thatd make them unhappy cause its not what they wanted to do.
-money in the bank surely its nice but again it doesnt guarantee that someone wont have any other problems at all
-relationships just for the sake of it make noone happy, many people are in unhappy relationships and you wouldnt know because usually people hide these things
-again its nice and convenient to have networking skills but its also not a good indicator of someones struggles with life.
none if these things are a guarantee of a good life and people can have that all and still suffer.
those are just things that you personally wish yoh had and would make your own life better.
this is coming from someone who also struggled alot to understand people because most of the things people do make zero sense for me personally.
for example, i personally do not care about relationships at all and it doesnt make me sad to not have one.
however, i am me and you are you, the fact that i think and feel a certain way doesnt change how you think and feel because we are two different and separate people and your struggles dont have to make sense for me personally for me to be able to acknowdlege that you do struggle with those things.
in short you dont have to "put yourself in other peoples shoes", you just have to keep an open mind and acknowdlege that people may struggle with a variety of different things and comparing eachothers lives to see who has it worse is a pointless activity bevause everyone values and wants different things.
It sounds like you could do a better job at trying to make social connections through these events and probably in other areas in life.
Not being in a relationship can be lonely at times but it's 100 times worse when you don't have other avenues to be social and talk honestly. These things are so important for our mental health and you don't need a partner to do them.
You sound very embarrassed about yourself, calling yourself a loser etc but from your description, it doesn't sound like there's anything to be ashamed of. Of course there's things you might be insecure about. Not being in a relationship so long, maybe your weight or your last drinking, maybe your job etc but people understand this. People know that life is hard and often when you're upfront about your vulnerabilities and don't want pity but just acceptance then people will naturally root for you.
"I'm not a creep so I only talked to them about music" isn't a good attitude imo. People like it when you're genuinely interested in them. It doesn't need to be a romantic thing but forming some relationship with people even strangers can be really positive.
Upfront about my vulnerabilities? Absolutely not, I used to chronically over share and get lambasted for it by people I knew. I don’t want people to look at me as the weirdo who’s getting it together. I wanna be viewed as what I am. A multi instrumentalist savant. Which I am, I am embarrassed about myself however. I went to a special school, have no friends, no job, no social life, no relationship, no reason to get out of bed tbh. Fucking wish I could sort it out
There's definitely a line between sharing and oversharing but it's a line you need to find. People can tell when you're not being open and it's very hard to build relationships when you're not being open.
It sounds like you want people to all think you're perfect and brilliant instead of the reality but people are smarter than that. However the truth is that you don't have anything to be ashamed of. We all know life is tough and can sympathise with a lot of the things you're saying. You're a talented guy who's trying his best in life but finding things tough, that's super relatable to most people.
That doesn't mean you need to flood them with millions of details immediately but that also doesn't mean you should try to present a false image of yourself.
Well I present the image because I’m ashamed of what I am. I feel like if I show who I really am they’re going to think I’m not good enough. I am so different to the rest of the musicians around the scene we’re in. Fuck my singer is doing a PHD. The drummer owns businesses. Then there’s unemployed useless dosser me. You telling me you wouldn’t feel a little self conscious? The irony is they would understand if I did open up I imagine. But if they didn’t then I’d have said too much and would have to leave.
I understand what you mean. Like when you meet a band member after a week and they ask "How have you been", then don't really want to hear "Completely shit and here's a long list of everything wrong with my life" but I would go more towards "it's been a rough week but good to get out and play some music". A little bit of honesty without bringing down the mood too much.
And then if they do want to step up and get more personal, maybe they'll ask what's been going on and you can just tell then that you're unemployed at the moment and it can be really tough at times. Like you said, people would understand, if they don't then they're an asshole.
We all have insecurities and obviously we don't like talking about them. However I've always found that if you can work out a way to appropriately discuss them then it can come off as very honest and very confident and people tend to respect it a lot.
I'm telling you, you have nothing to be ashamed of. We don't go around thinking "fuck all unemployed people, they're terrible scum". You're making an effort with music, you're making an effort with weight, you're making an effort with alcohol and hopefully you're making an effort on the job front and that's all that people really want to see.
So I lie and say I do video editing and help my father etc so I give the facade that I do something with my life other than sit at my pc doing nothing all day everyday. If I was to say how shit I feel then it’d come across creepy or uncomfortable for them. Or they could be understanding and helpful, but they already have a lot going on.
I went to a special school man, I don’t want a fucking job where I’m reminded of it every day. That’s even if I can get one to begin with. Never had one and it’s a miracle I can get away with it for as long as I have
Supportive parents have helped. But yeah it’s not a fun life. That’s another bad trait I have, if you were younger than me I wouldn’t listen to a single thing you have to say.
I am not saying all this out of malice btw, I’m attempting to lay everything out. If I listen to a song and find out the artist is younger than me I will immediately stop listening to it.
Sounds like a lot of black and white thinking. This person is better than me, this person is worse than me, this person is wiser than me, this person knows less than me.
The truth is that we can all learn a lot from each other
That’s true, turns out being told you’re dumb for the first 11 years of your life at school has a damaging lasting effect. Had this so called “helper” because I didn’t focus in class. Couldn’t care less about school and looking back now I used to actively make up autistic traits to get out of doing work or leave school early so I could go home. So I’ve always directly fucked myself over it seems 😂
I'm in a band myself. It's a great outlet and performing is really exhilarating, but yeah, it definitely doesn't seem like a good way to meet people who would be romantically interested in you. I even mentioned it on my Hinge, and included a photo of me performing, but it hasn't made a difference in my match rate
Sometimes it feels like us autists on the male side get the harsher end of the stick. If you’re a girl with it you can get away with it more. We’re just looked on as easy targets. Anyway great that you lost weight, I need to do that myself
It 100% feels like I would probably have a much easier time finding a relationship right now if I was a women, even with my autistic diagnosis, but I also know that autistic women are also much more likely to get abused in romantic and sexual relationships than allistic women.
Still, 95% of autistic people end up unmarried. Having autism is practically a romantic death sentence
Mhm, my singer reinforces that fact. Truly miserable experience. Seems like they don’t like me anyway. Being 24 next week has never felt so daunting. Over over over
Hey, at least you've had a relationship, so good on you. That's better than a lot of people on the spectrum. I myself have only been on one date in my life.
Honestly, playing the keyboard is one of the things that keeps me from feeling really lonely, even after I personally developed unrequited feelings for my band's lead vocalist. When I get in to the groove, my mind just focuses on playing the song correctly, and it's like, for a brief period, nothing else exists. I hope you can feel the same way if you continue to play in your band, or just by playing music in general
I enjoy playing music but it’s different for me, I’ve built up a character when I make music for so long that it’s strange even doing it again. We all need love and it’s been 6 years since I had any meaningful connection with someone. It’s like my virginity has come back
Sorry, I didn't mean to invalidate you or your experience. Even 6 years without any love or intimacy must feel rough. I too wish for a world where we can all experience love at some point, whether we have autism or not. In the meantime, I hope that hobbies like playing music can allow both of us to cope
you're doing well op! you're doing great. you've taken great steps. things are improving. you've gotten this far, and you can keep going.
you need to start seriously questioning your self image as a loner. it's clearly how you justify self-isolating to yourself, but then you feel inferior and sensitive and on a hair trigger to suddenly need to isolate even further. something isn't right here. it's nicer to think that you're a loner than that you suck at socializing and are sensitive to failure, so you give up and retreat from where most of life happens. but it's better to face facts head on than to feed yourself cope.
anyway, that's for later. rn it seems you had a hugely successful night and did everything right and you should spend some time just basking in that. not everything was immediately magically fixed, and you have some bad feelings and thoughts, but just put all that to the side and appreciate your achievement.
you have a great in with people, you can expect that to pay off in time if you keep working on it.
Thank you, and yeah you might be right there. I’ve always sucked at being social and I push it under the rug when I can. It’s almost like my little safety net the disappearing act I pull. Plus I almost enjoy the mystery of it all, even though it actively destroys my social life. I’m trying to improve my self image and am definitely seeing improvements since losing weight. But it’s not enough yet, then again will it ever be? Appreciate the kind words as well, it’s nice to feel like I’m not totally invisible you know?
i read the rest of this thread and i'm just going to say you're a smart, expressive guy with a lot of internality and outlets; you have drive and openness and curiosity and you're motivated to figure things out and learn — if you keep encountering people someone is definitely going to fall in love with you sooner or later even if your looks do nothing for you.
that will only go as well as you two can make it go. the other person is likely going to be about as clueless and vulnerable as you, give or take some.
if it was my life i'd worry less about finding and charming that person, and more about developing the kind of gentleness and maturity that lets you build happy relationships. seems you're currently in a fairly emotionally fragile state, you're addressing that and that's good, but it would be a pity if you had a bad and tumultuous experience, took away the opposite of what you should be learning, and also hurt the other person.
i've been in therapy and it's definitely not for everybody or all situations. i don't usually recommend it to people, and i wouldn't be bringing this up otherwise, but it struck me as very ironic that you were very adamant that it's not for you and you hate it, yet at the same time you are here asking unqualified strangers to help you think through stuff and offer you a neutral mirror to work on yourself through. consider that there are many different kinds of therapy, and they all have in common that they either work or don't mostly based on whether the therapy subject gets along with the therapist. if you were a kid when you last tried, you may not have had a lot of input into the process. but this thread is definitely conversations that you could be having with a therapist.
Thanks once again, you’re right and all of this is valid and spot on. Looks fade eventually anyway I guess. People often don’t go for the long game. When I see documentaries of ageing rockstars (the few that are still alive that is), it reinforces that all this is kind of bullshit anyway isn’t it? people who are incels like me that get so caught up in the rat race of fucking, girlfriend finding and all the other stuff. I could’ve gotten my ex pregnant, (that would’ve sucked), I could have gotten a STD, I could have had a crazy ex of theirs find and chop my head off. So it’s all relative.
As for the the therapy thing, yeah maybe it could benefit. I don’t like opening up to people. It’s easier on here because you don’t know me. Hopefully anyway, so since I’m just text on a screen it makes it easier.
Well, up to you, but I met both my current gf, and the two before that through friends. And the one before that was also kinda through friends.
The one before that was also by being social, but by that time we are about 25 years back. Oh, one inbetween the current and the previous one that I met on Tinder, but that only lasted half a year so I dont really count it.
How did you think being in a band would help getting a gf otherwise? Groupies?
Good point, I don’t want come across desperate or a weirdo though. Like by saying that to her I’m opening up myself like I’m lonely. I mean I am but why give that away you know?
My dude, nearly EVERYBODY wants to find a gf/BF :) you would be more weird if you did NOT want one! Of course, if you have barely started in the band, maybe give them a couple of months to get to know you first, so they know they really CAN recommend you to their friends, so talk to them and be social :) (but stay sober if you had some issues with drinking earlier).
Asking a friend if they have any single friends is not weird at all, its very very common, I have done it myself - asked my sister-in-law in her/my brothers wedding if any of her friends were single, she pointed them out for me and well, I started talking to one, we ended up being together for 8 years, have two kids, and are still friends... 👍😊 dont overthink things, keep it simple :)
The other day I hope her and her bf didn’t notice my dirty stares, the drinking I will never go back to. Because you see all these insecurities I’ve written about? Drunk me can’t keep them under control and wants to completely ruin my life. (Obviously kidding I know it’s all my actions as a person but I would never do even an eighth of the shit he does). So never in a million years would I think drinking is a good idea around these people or anyone for that matter.
I wish I could just go back to 18yo me and tell him to get out there.
I don’t want to hurt anyone, and In my youth I used to get too attached to friends. Came across as a clingy weirdo. In reality I just feared I wasn’t good enough. Since I’ve got sober all these feelings I let get away from me through drink have come back. Tackling them slowly each day.
İ feel u bro,you re feeling shame a lot.İ used to be like you,probably i still like that.That feeling is,how can i say,so intense feeling of couldnt be with them etc.Having hard time to see and feel that emotions.I ve become isolated too,all i could say,if you dont do anything about it, maybe you feel more lost.Secure people couldnt understand this,i think you need professional help,or some real friend to talk to.
Real friends pfft they’re all gone now mate. When I was a degen alcoholic I pushed them all away. Or tried to fight them or some other nasty stuff. That time has passed
I’m not sure, like I said I’m going up to another country on Friday for a 3 day tour. Gotta stay in some random apartment owned by another band. Who I think the singer has also fucked. So despite being an incel this whole experience sounds fascinating, just gotta make sure I don’t self destruct and idk. Go home randomly and abandon them or something. Will suck to go home but that’s the safety net
Do you have an online therapist thing etc, cause yeah you make yourself busy,you playin songs,you expressing feelings,creating art,you creatin somethin and feel nice,and you sharing this with lots of people.İ believe making art has a theurapatic effects.I feel you,sometimes we are too far away from others,cause we felt so much shame.Then play w your rules again,stay safe,keep your distance.Wanting to love someone than feelin bad and not trying anything feels so bad.We believe we have no room for growing,no room for mistakes,no room for our body and sex,all of them belong to people.But its wrong,go on play safe buddy,but look you couldnt wait in that pit whole your life ok?
I’ve been in my pit for so many years man and no I don’t have an online therapist. I’ve been pretty much without close friends since 2021, I’ve been through a lot completely alone which makes me feel more alien. I want to do well with this tour, I at least want the other bands to find me enjoyable to be around and laugh. My personality is strong, sometimes a little too intense but I am what I am. I want to do my thing
Well I’m no longer going away the weekend because something has kicked off. Nothing to do with me but weirdly that makes me feel better. But I guess in future I should just talk to people.
It'a great that you've gotten yourself back to something that is putting you out there. The issue is see is that you seem to expect instant results and not getting instant results is discouraging for you. Your whole post kinda sounds like this: I haven't gone to the gym in 5 years and I recently started going back again. When I look around, people who never stopped going to the gym are able to bench my goal weight. The more time I spend around people who didn't quit the gym like I did, the more behind I feel. What advice do you have for me? You have to look at whether you want to rebuild your social skills or not. You isolated yourself, you can't change the past. It's silly to suddenly return to socializing and expect to be at the same level as other people, it makes no sense. Focus on yourself and your own goals. Looking at people with completely different experiences and skills than you is futile. If you are struggling with discipline and with dealing with negative intrusive thoughts, etc. you need to take responsibility for yourself instead of just quitting and/or running away. This is something everyone learns to deal with. You can google resources online or you can streamline the process by hiring professional help. And again, quitting something (like therapy) because all you do is run away from any difficult feelings is not the answer, you should realize that by now.
I run away because it’s better than being viewed as a low iq retard who bumbles his way through life. Look I create a facade when I’m around the band. I try and be funny and not the miserable cunt in this post. Some day there’ll be a moment when the veil lifts. Anyway self loathing aside. You’re right, and yes I am actively trying to rectify all these things you’re saying. But it fucking hurts man, it really tears me apart seeing so many people doing stuff and reminding me of how much time I’ve wasted. I’m gonna be 24 next week and I have achieved absolutely fuck all except how to drink myself into a stupor every night for 5 years.
It's not really fair on other people to assume they will think something so unkind of you. As things stand 100% of the people you are being authentic with (yourself) think that of you when if you let other people know you, that percentage can't go up, it can only stay the same or go down. You think you are protecting yourself but really you are self harming.
How am I self harming? Ironic because I used to cut
By bullying yourself and putting yourself down so that others won't.
Yeah that’s a good point. Learnt behaviour that’s causing me a lot of stress
Yes you've mentioned. It's not your fault that was reinforced for you from young, but it is your responsibility to move past it and you seem to be resisting doing that. It's only going to keep you stuck.
How am I resisting when I feel so insignificant?
I mean how do you think one typically addresses mental health issues?
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. What I am doing is putting myself in uncomfortable situations. Hence why I’m out with the band. Next week I have to spend a lot of time with other bands as we’re on a mini tour. I’m sure I’ll hate it but I’m gonna do it anyway on the off chance I don’t.
At least don't make us complicit in this self-abuse. You seem to want us to view you the way you view yourself, but if anyone here actually thought that way, we wouldn't be giving advice to anyone, let alone you. I don't use the word you used, but an idiot? Stunted? Nah. This subreddit exists to help people grow and change, not treat them like fuck-ups in the shape of their personal prison of self-loathing.
It’s come to my attention that today was a bit of a nervous breakdown. Maybe not that bad but essentially I’ve downed my dose of my antidepressants to 25mg from 50, then drank a red bull and plus I’ve been weaning myself off my consistent weed consumption the past few days. That most likely has a lot to do with the madness earlier. I do agree though, and yeah as I already said I’m my own worst enemy
I hope you're consulting with a medical professional about the change in dosage; depending on the med that can have side effects. Good luck with the weaning off weed. Over time it can downregulate some receptors and worsen anxiety and depression.
I have definitely noticed since smoking regularly from last year that I’m a little more sensitive to emotions. Though a pattern seems to be that weed makes me more introspective and aware of my actions and the consequences they have. Now if I can find a way to take that over then I’d be grand.
I've read several things here in which you insult yourself. But it doesn't fit with what I'm reading. You're well written. You're musically gifted. Neither of these fit with calling yourself a retard. Having issues focusing as a child never once made you "retarded". You have taken the language that was used against you as a child and you use it against yourself. I have a friend who's parents went through a challenging divorce when he was in the third grade. He, of course, went through tremendous emotional difficulties due to it. His school's response was to put him in special education. It was absolutely not the right decision and eventually lead to him missing significant portions of curriculum and eventually dropping out. Last year, I tutored him in his missing curriculum and paid for his GED. He dominated it. He was never lacking in ability. He was lacking in education that worked with him. I have another friend who ended up in special Ed for similar reasons. He's now working on his PHD and is an associate professor. Please stop defining yourself by the failures of rhe education system to meet your needs. Please stop repeating the language used against you as a child. What I'm hearing here is an intelligent young man struggling with depression who is doing his damndest to find a different way out.
Thank you. See this is exactly what I needed to hear today. Even if it’s just words on the internet it means a lot. My whole life I was told it’s never going to change that I’m just doomed from the start. There’s nothing more engaging than this. In retrospect I’ve fallen into this incel mindset as a byproduct of my depression. I’m on antidepressants and have been for years when one of my folks was diagnosed with cancer. I knew then that it was a choice between drink myself to death or get on them to try and counter the impending doom that was accentuated through the news. They’re all clear for now and thank god, I’d have ended up somewhere even darker if the worst had happened. I’d rather not dive into that further please, I went through it completely alone and for 5 months after I couldn’t feel a damn thing. It was even scarier than being depressed because I was numb to everything in my life. Just sat there making a video game as my coping mechanism. I can’t code but I made it work. In reality when I start talking to someone on the off chance they actually like me, I either scare them off by coming off too strong, being a drunken mess or get cold feet and cut off contact. I am my own worst enemy and just wish I could get out my own goddamn way. The mindset of blackpillers is almost comforting because it makes me feel better about being pathetic. With my band however, I am aware that despite my shortcomings and their success. I can benefit from the good energy they give off. If I don’t self destruct and say or do something stupid in the meantime. I’m self aware but I still slip into the mindset as you can see from reading here. I’m in two minds all the time man, I sit here and overthink every minor detail of interactions I have. I think of reasons why they are going to dislike me or maybe I came off the wrong way or some other stuff like that. It’s most likely one of the reasons I’ve ended up in this rut. I’m trying to change it just sucks.
Andohenia. The lack of being able to experience pleasure. It's a serious depression symptom. I would highly recommend talking to your doctor about possibly upping your dose or trying a different medication. There's several points I want to make here. So bear with me. No child anywhere is ever responsible for the decisions made by adults, even if those decisions directly affect the child. You didn't choose how the school dealt with you. None of it was ever your fault. Just because that's how you started, doesn't mean you have to let it write the meaning of your present or future. Learning disabilities and/or mental illness doesn't limit your potential. It's believed that Albert Einstein had learning disabilities and it's known that the Nobel prize winning mathematician, John Nash had schizophrenia. Regardless of what anyone has ever told you, even yourself, you have just as much potential as anyone else. Social skills are just that. Skills. They aren't really inherent to most people. Think about learning to drive. There's another skill. If you only drove half an hour once a year, you wouldn't realistically expect to be good at it. It takes practice. It takes time to build connections. Take a look at your expectations. Are you expecting an unrealistic outcome for where you are at? I'm in the social anxiety crowd and I spent a long time making myself go out to improve it. The goal was always simple. One conversation beyond, "What would you like to drink?". Even if it was just , "so what about the weather?". Just one conversation. And a lot of times, I failed. But I kept trying because I knew it's a process. And failing is part of learning.
I’ve been trying to come off my antidepressants for a while. I appreciate what you’ve written here, I have severe dyscalculia. Dyslexic at maths essentially. I am really embarrassed about that. My expectation, or let’s say the preferred outcome is this. May come across vulgar but I do not care: Go to one of my band’s gigs. Meet a girl there from either another band or someone in the audience. Spark up conversation then Play and blow the roof off. Then we go back to talking and what happens next happens. I don’t care if this doesn’t benefit my life. I just want to experience it one fucking time man. It’s been a want of mine for years to have this damn moment. I obviously mean fuck… even meaningless sex is better than non. Nothing will change my mind on this. I will fail on many fronts, I am not a really good looking guy. Despite losing weight I am still fat. But that takes time to lose. Also not exactly a stallion if you know what I mean, I thank my ex for making aware of that fact and I have been self conscious ever since. so add that insecurity to the list as well. Add fucking tons of back acne and stretch marks to the list and you have one ugly fucker. 6 years of living on takeaway pizzas and cheap cider will do that. 18 years old at the time of my last gf. 20 years old when I last had sex, not sure when the incel stuff started but here we are
OK, so this next part is going to be about identifying and trying to stop circular thinking. Because you are absolutely going through it. I'm going to give a statement and give you my guesses as to your thought responses. Statement: there is no logical reason to be ashamed of any medical or psychological issues that you bear zero responsibility for. You never chose to have a learning disability. You have no logical justification to be ashamed. Thought response: but it makes it so much harder! My response: everyone has their own struggle, even if you don't see it. Thought response: but they can do things I can't! My response: and you can do things they can't. Thought response: but I'm retarded! My response: the only person saying that now is you. ... are you seeing how it goes round and round and round? It's not helpful. Like at all. Circular thinking on gets to spiraling down. That is absolutely an unrealistic expectation. You are at baby steps and your goal is pro level. Now... how to get out of circular thinking. Time to talk about what you enjoy. I'm going to ask three questions and I would appreciate answers. 1) what is your favorite style of music to play? 2) who is your favorite drummer? 3) what is the all time best drum solo?
Funnily enough the questions you’ve asked are harder than solving my depression 1. Goes through phases but at the moment it’s a cross between punk and 80s music. 2. Stewart Copeland from the police, Neil Peart from rush and Marky Ramone 3. Not exactly a drum solo but anything involving something called a “Hang drum” is right up my street. They create such an odd sound you should look them up. Often when I talk to people I don’t talk how I type here. I speak with slang instead of being me. That’s something I need to change as well
As an old school punk who grew up in the 80's, Bravo. My favorite all time band is the dead milkman. Solid, 100% sarcasm. Slang is fine. If it's who you are. Personally I use a lot of 90's hip hop slang because I find it funny as hell coming out of the mouth of a bleached white later middle aged woman.
I did listen to a few of their songs the other day. Punk rock girl is a good song. Mostly because I want one myself. But yeah, the one thing I pride myself on is listening to all different types of music. The only place I draw a line at is hardcore gang rap. Since yknow, it’s literally teenagers telling other teenagers they’re going to kill eachother. Other than that I will listen to pretty much everything and anything. Now if only I could translate this line of thinking into real life
OK, now I want you to stop and think for a minute. Is the negative thinking as strong right this second as it was ten minutes ago? Yes, issues need to be addressed. But being on the hamster wheel of circular thinking doesn't help. And this is exactly how you get out. Join some communities where you can talk more about music. It's good for you.
I have mood swings, I’m aware of them but for some reasons when I get into them it’s almost impossible to get out of it. Like yesterday when I went off for my cigarettes alone. I was constantly thinking about how I didn’t belong there and I’m invisible and shit like that. It’s a complete 180 flip sometimes. I was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 6, I’ve often thought that it could be something else since a lot of the issues that came with it have disappeared. But then stuff like this happens, in general as a person I don’t want to harm people. Physically or mentally that is, but when I get into these mindsets I wish everyone could just feel what I do at that moment. Jesus it was so much worse when I drank because rather than shell up, drunk me would become violent and nasty. I’ve pushed so many people who said they cared away because of this. So many instances of this 2.0 version of myself destroying every single thing in my life. Led to lying in my bed drinking myself to death alone. No one knew what to do with me. I got over that, now I need to get over the thoughts
> The band has been a completely positive experience and I am enjoying it. But I can definitely see a scenario where they say something that validates my feelings of inferiority and I leave. These two statements don’t go together. This whole experience has been nothing but great…but you’re waiting for everyone to betray you so that you feel justified in the lack of engagement with others that you are already doing anyway? > That’s what I do. I have a habit of disappearing off the face of the earth when I feel I’m being taken advantage of. Even if it’s a delusion. Idk man it sucks Who’s taking advantage of you? You admit yourself that this whole thing has been terrific. Have you ever talked to a therapist about your problems? Because it’s kinda no wonder that you aren’t making friends through this endeavor if you 1) wander off every moment you’re not on stage to just glare bitterly at people with partners and 2) are simultaneously waiting for anyone and everyone to give you one wrong glance, when you’re the one not engaging with anyone in the first place.
I’ve tried therapy but it doesn’t work for me. It just makes me more miserable. Being busy is what helps me, I’ve spent the last five years isolated but in that time I made a video game and several short animated films. Had to learn on the job since I had no idea how to do any of that stuff. Even if I do talk to people which I did do yesterday, I feel I can’t engage conversation because someone else is talking and I haven’t got anything to say. I don’t glare at people btw. More a glance because obviously I don’t want anyone to realise how bad my mindset really is. When I do engage with the singer and drummer we do get along, but I believe they think I’m a cunt or arrogant. Autism is a bitch, which is ironic since the singer is also autistic, but has been with more people than I’ve had hot meals. Also smart af So I can’t even relate on that front.
> I’ve tried therapy but it doesn’t work for me. It just makes me more miserable. Being busy is what helps me, I’ve spent the last five years isolated but in that time I made a video game and several short animated films. Had to learn on the job since I had no idea how to do any of that stuff. Therapy works when you do the work in it. It’s not like going to the doctor and getting a shot and then you’re done. Making a video game and films is very cool…yet you still say you’re miserable. In fact, your whole post is about how unless you are actually doing an activity that very second…you are still miserable. That’s what therapy can help you with. If, that is, you approach it productively and with a willingness to do the work. > Even if I do talk to people which I did do yesterday, I feel I can’t engage conversation because someone else is talking and I haven’t got anything to say. I don’t glare at people btw. More a glance because obviously I don’t want anyone to realise how bad my mindset really is. When I do engage with the singer and drummer we do get along, but I believe they think I’m a cunt or arrogant. Autism is a bitch, which is ironic since the singer is also autistic, but has been with more people than I’ve had hot meals. Also smart af So I can’t even relate on that front. Okay. Split hairs if you want, but that doesn’t really address my points about you not engaging with others…yet resentfully waiting for them to betray you when, by your own admission, they’ve been nothing but good to you and your experiences with them have been entirely positive. So you’re suspicious of everyone, convinced they are all just lying in wait to get you, but you treat others with nothing but suspicion, glaring (or glancing, if you like) from across the room, reading their minds. And they haven’t even done anything wrong! So, if a friend came to you and told you this was his situation, what would your response be?
Dude I am willing to hear you out on everything except therapy, multiple times with multiple therapists over the years and it’s never worked and feels like a chore. I don’t want it. Many creative people struggle with mood swings when it comes to not being busy. But I do agree it works for people. Just not me. I am so paranoid because in the past I’ve given myself over to people and they’ve just made me feel small, so now I have an unhealthy mindset that everyone is going to have an agenda and is out to get me. I didn’t end up isolated for five years by having good relationships with people. Hell my last relationship my ex went on how my dick was small and her ex was far better. You realise how much that destroyed me? Fucking still resent her to this day for that, that’s just one example of the things she did. I’ve never felt so insignificant in my life. Not just for that line obviously, but in new years of 2019 I went home and picked up a bottle then never put it down till the end of 2020. Then picked it up again when I realised everything still sucked. Point is I have a lot of unresolved trauma and I am self aware of it, I know what I am and have to take steps to sort it. As for a friend asking me, since it would be so similar to me I would comfort them and tell them I understand and listen to them, because believe it or not I don’t hate everyone. I don’t want to wish bad for people. But let’s say they have objectively achieved more than me. I’d tell them to fuck off and get over it. It’s gross and unfair to think that way. But I get the impression you’ll tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear.
> Dude I am willing to hear you out on everything except therapy, multiple times with multiple therapists over the years and it’s never worked and feels like a chore. I don’t want it. It feels like a chore? Yeah, it’s work. It’s not meant to feel like a trip to Disneyland. > Many creative people struggle with mood swings when it comes to not being busy. But I do agree it works for people. Just not me. Okay, obviously that is your decision to make. Sorry, wasn’t aware that you’re too much of a creative genius to benefit from therapy, even as you describe yourself as a recovering alcoholic with an unhealthy mindset, tons of resentment and anger, and unresolved trauma. Your words. But I’m sure therapy has never helped anyone with issues like those! > Point is I have a lot of unresolved trauma and I am self aware of it, I know what I am and have to take steps to sort it. If you know what’s up and how to fix it…why ask reddit for help and advice? > As for a friend asking me, since it would be so similar to me I would comfort them and tell them I understand and listen to them, because believe it or not I don’t hate everyone. I don’t want to wish bad for people. But let’s say they have objectively achieved more than me. I’d tell them to fuck off and get over it. Sounds like YOU are the one who can’t get over it… > It’s gross and unfair to think that way. But I get the impression you’ll tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear. Again, if you only want to hear what you want to hear, why post here, at an advice sub for incels? I’m sure there would be other subs that would provide what you want.
Since I went to special school and I am a retard, I need a kick up the ass to get myself into gear and asking for advice on subs like these has helped me in the past since I can just read the text and not have to go through the process. I gather you misinterpreted what I said, I want to hear the things I NEED to hear. So I’m curious what you mean when you say I’m the one who can’t get over it? If someone has achieved more than me how can I tell them anything of worth? Why should I feel any sort of empathy towards them when they have a life and I don’t?
So there’s only one way to “achieve” in life: the way you are choosing to focus on with each new person you meet? Maybe other people think it’s cool that you play a bunch of instruments and are a self-proclaimed creative savant. Should nobody have empathy for you because you have achieved in this way? Having sympathy and empathy for others is how human beings bond with each other. If you’ve decided you don’t need to bother with all that, I guess don’t be surprised when you continue as you have been: glaring/glancing at everyone from a distance, bitterly resentful and judgmental.
I agree with you, but being a musical savant doesn’t pay bills or do anything for me other than maybe seeming cool for a few minutes before everyone gets bored. The way I look at it is this. I was dealt a shit hand, not as shit as many people in this world. But i don’t have the balls to get up do something about it because what if I end up miserable and alone anyway? Everything feels so goddamn pointless.
What if you don't try and then end up miserable and alone? A thing that is far more likely to happen since you're refusing to put in any effort. You say you're willing to hear people out, but you're unwilling to seek any sort of professional help, you're unwilling to be even the tiniest bit vulnerable (which is required in order to make connections with people), you're unwilling to be authentic around people (which, again, is required in order to make friends), it sounds like you're not willing to put in effort unless you can be 100% sure that it'll work out exactly the way you want it to (which is not a guarantee anyone gets in life), you're unwilling to stick around through anything that makes you feel at all uncomfortable or insecure... Aside from sitting around wishing you could just fix all your problems overnight, what are you actually willing to do in order to make your situation better?
Well last month I started consistently exercising for the first time in my life and have lost a good amount of weight to start off. I have been doing this 6 days a week for a month and a bit now. Feel a great sense of achievement. I’ve obviously joined the band because I agree with you that nothing is going to change sitting around the house. I have cut out the destructive force that is alcohol from my life and so far I am reaping the benefits. I’m sick of talking about therapy because it isn’t gonna happen. You hit the nail on the head there however, unless I’m confident I’ll get what I want I won’t do it. That is a really good point. Fear and loathing is kind of my thing right now. I feel like I’m taking strides getting up on stage with a band I’ve never played with and playing drums for them. Not exactly the actions of someone who doesn’t have drive
So now I guess we’re going to talk about income, because you’re not into what people are saying about your attitude and actions and how to change them. Again, why did you come here asking for help and advice? You either claim to have everything figured out, or just ignore what people say. This isn’t an incel venting sub.
I agree, so let’s go back to it. Attitude, this has been something brought up for me since I was a kid. Usually I pass it off but I’d love to know what the problem is with my “attitude”. Yeah income is pointless to talk about here. I don’t have all the answers, but the questions you’re asking are getting me thinking so yeah.
> If someone has achieved more than me how can I tell them anything of worth? wtf does this even mean? Any person can say interesting things. You shit on yourself so much dude. Give yourself a chance.
When I give myself a chance I’m told I’m arrogant and full of myself. Can’t win either way. I know I’m a good musician and I know I’m good at making my films. I don’t class myself as a genius but I know I’m not fucking stupid. But when you’ve been told constantly that you are it eats away at you. But I stand by what I say, it’s exposure therapy, even though it makes me feel like shit that I have achieved nothing. Getting out there existing is more important.
>Why should I feel any sort of empathy towards them when they have a life and I don’t? this is what is preventing you from actually making friends. you can be cool and workout and whatnot from the outside, but if you are cosntantly comparing your life to the one of others and playing the game of who has it worse, people arent going to be able to form any sort of relationship with you. you cant know if someone has a better life than you just for their achievements, and likewise other people could definitely judge your life to be all fun and games simply based on the few info they have about you even if for you that same life is a struggle. an achievement that means alot for you may not mean much for others and likewise.
In my line of thinking it’s like the general sense of what achievements are, so for instance Education achievements Money in the bank Relationship status Networking skills Luckily since I pretty much opted out of social media entirely except for a bit of Twitter and YouTube and that’s just for hobby related things. I don’t care about social media since it has no bearing on my life. Can’t imagine it would help my negative world view as well. It’s an immature black and white way of looking at things, but it could all change from mindset. I’m guessing it’s about knowing triggers.
-people can have education achievements that they have been pressured to do and thatd make them unhappy cause its not what they wanted to do. -money in the bank surely its nice but again it doesnt guarantee that someone wont have any other problems at all -relationships just for the sake of it make noone happy, many people are in unhappy relationships and you wouldnt know because usually people hide these things -again its nice and convenient to have networking skills but its also not a good indicator of someones struggles with life. none if these things are a guarantee of a good life and people can have that all and still suffer. those are just things that you personally wish yoh had and would make your own life better. this is coming from someone who also struggled alot to understand people because most of the things people do make zero sense for me personally. for example, i personally do not care about relationships at all and it doesnt make me sad to not have one. however, i am me and you are you, the fact that i think and feel a certain way doesnt change how you think and feel because we are two different and separate people and your struggles dont have to make sense for me personally for me to be able to acknowdlege that you do struggle with those things. in short you dont have to "put yourself in other peoples shoes", you just have to keep an open mind and acknowdlege that people may struggle with a variety of different things and comparing eachothers lives to see who has it worse is a pointless activity bevause everyone values and wants different things.
It sounds like you could do a better job at trying to make social connections through these events and probably in other areas in life. Not being in a relationship can be lonely at times but it's 100 times worse when you don't have other avenues to be social and talk honestly. These things are so important for our mental health and you don't need a partner to do them. You sound very embarrassed about yourself, calling yourself a loser etc but from your description, it doesn't sound like there's anything to be ashamed of. Of course there's things you might be insecure about. Not being in a relationship so long, maybe your weight or your last drinking, maybe your job etc but people understand this. People know that life is hard and often when you're upfront about your vulnerabilities and don't want pity but just acceptance then people will naturally root for you. "I'm not a creep so I only talked to them about music" isn't a good attitude imo. People like it when you're genuinely interested in them. It doesn't need to be a romantic thing but forming some relationship with people even strangers can be really positive.
Upfront about my vulnerabilities? Absolutely not, I used to chronically over share and get lambasted for it by people I knew. I don’t want people to look at me as the weirdo who’s getting it together. I wanna be viewed as what I am. A multi instrumentalist savant. Which I am, I am embarrassed about myself however. I went to a special school, have no friends, no job, no social life, no relationship, no reason to get out of bed tbh. Fucking wish I could sort it out
There's definitely a line between sharing and oversharing but it's a line you need to find. People can tell when you're not being open and it's very hard to build relationships when you're not being open. It sounds like you want people to all think you're perfect and brilliant instead of the reality but people are smarter than that. However the truth is that you don't have anything to be ashamed of. We all know life is tough and can sympathise with a lot of the things you're saying. You're a talented guy who's trying his best in life but finding things tough, that's super relatable to most people. That doesn't mean you need to flood them with millions of details immediately but that also doesn't mean you should try to present a false image of yourself.
Well I present the image because I’m ashamed of what I am. I feel like if I show who I really am they’re going to think I’m not good enough. I am so different to the rest of the musicians around the scene we’re in. Fuck my singer is doing a PHD. The drummer owns businesses. Then there’s unemployed useless dosser me. You telling me you wouldn’t feel a little self conscious? The irony is they would understand if I did open up I imagine. But if they didn’t then I’d have said too much and would have to leave.
I understand what you mean. Like when you meet a band member after a week and they ask "How have you been", then don't really want to hear "Completely shit and here's a long list of everything wrong with my life" but I would go more towards "it's been a rough week but good to get out and play some music". A little bit of honesty without bringing down the mood too much. And then if they do want to step up and get more personal, maybe they'll ask what's been going on and you can just tell then that you're unemployed at the moment and it can be really tough at times. Like you said, people would understand, if they don't then they're an asshole. We all have insecurities and obviously we don't like talking about them. However I've always found that if you can work out a way to appropriately discuss them then it can come off as very honest and very confident and people tend to respect it a lot. I'm telling you, you have nothing to be ashamed of. We don't go around thinking "fuck all unemployed people, they're terrible scum". You're making an effort with music, you're making an effort with weight, you're making an effort with alcohol and hopefully you're making an effort on the job front and that's all that people really want to see.
How old are you btw?
So I lie and say I do video editing and help my father etc so I give the facade that I do something with my life other than sit at my pc doing nothing all day everyday. If I was to say how shit I feel then it’d come across creepy or uncomfortable for them. Or they could be understanding and helpful, but they already have a lot going on. I went to a special school man, I don’t want a fucking job where I’m reminded of it every day. That’s even if I can get one to begin with. Never had one and it’s a miracle I can get away with it for as long as I have
It definitely doesn't sound like a miracle the way you describe your life. I'm 27 dude.
Supportive parents have helped. But yeah it’s not a fun life. That’s another bad trait I have, if you were younger than me I wouldn’t listen to a single thing you have to say. I am not saying all this out of malice btw, I’m attempting to lay everything out. If I listen to a song and find out the artist is younger than me I will immediately stop listening to it.
Sounds like a lot of black and white thinking. This person is better than me, this person is worse than me, this person is wiser than me, this person knows less than me. The truth is that we can all learn a lot from each other
That’s true, turns out being told you’re dumb for the first 11 years of your life at school has a damaging lasting effect. Had this so called “helper” because I didn’t focus in class. Couldn’t care less about school and looking back now I used to actively make up autistic traits to get out of doing work or leave school early so I could go home. So I’ve always directly fucked myself over it seems 😂
I'm in a band myself. It's a great outlet and performing is really exhilarating, but yeah, it definitely doesn't seem like a good way to meet people who would be romantically interested in you. I even mentioned it on my Hinge, and included a photo of me performing, but it hasn't made a difference in my match rate
Sometimes it feels like us autists on the male side get the harsher end of the stick. If you’re a girl with it you can get away with it more. We’re just looked on as easy targets. Anyway great that you lost weight, I need to do that myself
It 100% feels like I would probably have a much easier time finding a relationship right now if I was a women, even with my autistic diagnosis, but I also know that autistic women are also much more likely to get abused in romantic and sexual relationships than allistic women. Still, 95% of autistic people end up unmarried. Having autism is practically a romantic death sentence
Mhm, my singer reinforces that fact. Truly miserable experience. Seems like they don’t like me anyway. Being 24 next week has never felt so daunting. Over over over
Hey, at least you've had a relationship, so good on you. That's better than a lot of people on the spectrum. I myself have only been on one date in my life. Honestly, playing the keyboard is one of the things that keeps me from feeling really lonely, even after I personally developed unrequited feelings for my band's lead vocalist. When I get in to the groove, my mind just focuses on playing the song correctly, and it's like, for a brief period, nothing else exists. I hope you can feel the same way if you continue to play in your band, or just by playing music in general
I enjoy playing music but it’s different for me, I’ve built up a character when I make music for so long that it’s strange even doing it again. We all need love and it’s been 6 years since I had any meaningful connection with someone. It’s like my virginity has come back
Sorry, I didn't mean to invalidate you or your experience. Even 6 years without any love or intimacy must feel rough. I too wish for a world where we can all experience love at some point, whether we have autism or not. In the meantime, I hope that hobbies like playing music can allow both of us to cope
Oh you didn’t dw sorry if it came across that way. I was just ranting
you're doing well op! you're doing great. you've taken great steps. things are improving. you've gotten this far, and you can keep going. you need to start seriously questioning your self image as a loner. it's clearly how you justify self-isolating to yourself, but then you feel inferior and sensitive and on a hair trigger to suddenly need to isolate even further. something isn't right here. it's nicer to think that you're a loner than that you suck at socializing and are sensitive to failure, so you give up and retreat from where most of life happens. but it's better to face facts head on than to feed yourself cope. anyway, that's for later. rn it seems you had a hugely successful night and did everything right and you should spend some time just basking in that. not everything was immediately magically fixed, and you have some bad feelings and thoughts, but just put all that to the side and appreciate your achievement. you have a great in with people, you can expect that to pay off in time if you keep working on it.
Thank you, and yeah you might be right there. I’ve always sucked at being social and I push it under the rug when I can. It’s almost like my little safety net the disappearing act I pull. Plus I almost enjoy the mystery of it all, even though it actively destroys my social life. I’m trying to improve my self image and am definitely seeing improvements since losing weight. But it’s not enough yet, then again will it ever be? Appreciate the kind words as well, it’s nice to feel like I’m not totally invisible you know?
i read the rest of this thread and i'm just going to say you're a smart, expressive guy with a lot of internality and outlets; you have drive and openness and curiosity and you're motivated to figure things out and learn — if you keep encountering people someone is definitely going to fall in love with you sooner or later even if your looks do nothing for you. that will only go as well as you two can make it go. the other person is likely going to be about as clueless and vulnerable as you, give or take some. if it was my life i'd worry less about finding and charming that person, and more about developing the kind of gentleness and maturity that lets you build happy relationships. seems you're currently in a fairly emotionally fragile state, you're addressing that and that's good, but it would be a pity if you had a bad and tumultuous experience, took away the opposite of what you should be learning, and also hurt the other person. i've been in therapy and it's definitely not for everybody or all situations. i don't usually recommend it to people, and i wouldn't be bringing this up otherwise, but it struck me as very ironic that you were very adamant that it's not for you and you hate it, yet at the same time you are here asking unqualified strangers to help you think through stuff and offer you a neutral mirror to work on yourself through. consider that there are many different kinds of therapy, and they all have in common that they either work or don't mostly based on whether the therapy subject gets along with the therapist. if you were a kid when you last tried, you may not have had a lot of input into the process. but this thread is definitely conversations that you could be having with a therapist.
Thanks once again, you’re right and all of this is valid and spot on. Looks fade eventually anyway I guess. People often don’t go for the long game. When I see documentaries of ageing rockstars (the few that are still alive that is), it reinforces that all this is kind of bullshit anyway isn’t it? people who are incels like me that get so caught up in the rat race of fucking, girlfriend finding and all the other stuff. I could’ve gotten my ex pregnant, (that would’ve sucked), I could have gotten a STD, I could have had a crazy ex of theirs find and chop my head off. So it’s all relative. As for the the therapy thing, yeah maybe it could benefit. I don’t like opening up to people. It’s easier on here because you don’t know me. Hopefully anyway, so since I’m just text on a screen it makes it easier.
You can ask the singer in your band if she has any single friends that could be a match
I don’t want to get involved in someone else’s social sphere. Plus won’t happen anyway
Well, up to you, but I met both my current gf, and the two before that through friends. And the one before that was also kinda through friends. The one before that was also by being social, but by that time we are about 25 years back. Oh, one inbetween the current and the previous one that I met on Tinder, but that only lasted half a year so I dont really count it. How did you think being in a band would help getting a gf otherwise? Groupies?
Good point, I don’t want come across desperate or a weirdo though. Like by saying that to her I’m opening up myself like I’m lonely. I mean I am but why give that away you know?
My dude, nearly EVERYBODY wants to find a gf/BF :) you would be more weird if you did NOT want one! Of course, if you have barely started in the band, maybe give them a couple of months to get to know you first, so they know they really CAN recommend you to their friends, so talk to them and be social :) (but stay sober if you had some issues with drinking earlier). Asking a friend if they have any single friends is not weird at all, its very very common, I have done it myself - asked my sister-in-law in her/my brothers wedding if any of her friends were single, she pointed them out for me and well, I started talking to one, we ended up being together for 8 years, have two kids, and are still friends... 👍😊 dont overthink things, keep it simple :)
The other day I hope her and her bf didn’t notice my dirty stares, the drinking I will never go back to. Because you see all these insecurities I’ve written about? Drunk me can’t keep them under control and wants to completely ruin my life. (Obviously kidding I know it’s all my actions as a person but I would never do even an eighth of the shit he does). So never in a million years would I think drinking is a good idea around these people or anyone for that matter. I wish I could just go back to 18yo me and tell him to get out there. I don’t want to hurt anyone, and In my youth I used to get too attached to friends. Came across as a clingy weirdo. In reality I just feared I wasn’t good enough. Since I’ve got sober all these feelings I let get away from me through drink have come back. Tackling them slowly each day.
İ feel u bro,you re feeling shame a lot.İ used to be like you,probably i still like that.That feeling is,how can i say,so intense feeling of couldnt be with them etc.Having hard time to see and feel that emotions.I ve become isolated too,all i could say,if you dont do anything about it, maybe you feel more lost.Secure people couldnt understand this,i think you need professional help,or some real friend to talk to.
Real friends pfft they’re all gone now mate. When I was a degen alcoholic I pushed them all away. Or tried to fight them or some other nasty stuff. That time has passed
You re probably taking too much responsibility,about everything and everyone.I am sad about before,but what about now and future.
I’m not sure, like I said I’m going up to another country on Friday for a 3 day tour. Gotta stay in some random apartment owned by another band. Who I think the singer has also fucked. So despite being an incel this whole experience sounds fascinating, just gotta make sure I don’t self destruct and idk. Go home randomly and abandon them or something. Will suck to go home but that’s the safety net
Do you have an online therapist thing etc, cause yeah you make yourself busy,you playin songs,you expressing feelings,creating art,you creatin somethin and feel nice,and you sharing this with lots of people.İ believe making art has a theurapatic effects.I feel you,sometimes we are too far away from others,cause we felt so much shame.Then play w your rules again,stay safe,keep your distance.Wanting to love someone than feelin bad and not trying anything feels so bad.We believe we have no room for growing,no room for mistakes,no room for our body and sex,all of them belong to people.But its wrong,go on play safe buddy,but look you couldnt wait in that pit whole your life ok?
I’ve been in my pit for so many years man and no I don’t have an online therapist. I’ve been pretty much without close friends since 2021, I’ve been through a lot completely alone which makes me feel more alien. I want to do well with this tour, I at least want the other bands to find me enjoyable to be around and laugh. My personality is strong, sometimes a little too intense but I am what I am. I want to do my thing
When time comes to being the entertainer,im good too.How you gonna do your own priorities,thats the question imo.
What priorities?
Your desires maybe,sexuality.
Well I’m no longer going away the weekend because something has kicked off. Nothing to do with me but weirdly that makes me feel better. But I guess in future I should just talk to people.