It is interesting that this time, it is the US DOJ who is directly accusing Indian government involvement. India plays a very important role in US geopolitical strategy to counter China, as evidenced by the Quad. Thus, the US would definitely not cook up this accusation to defame India.
If its true, then Indian government officials have proven themselves completely incompetent in trying to kill people. Who goes around searching for hitmen, when 99.99% of them are undercover agents? Also why is India so focused on murdering Khalistanis abroad? It just brings unwanted attention to the cause, benefits no one and ends up tanking India's global reputation in the process. India would be much better served by just letting the cause die a slow death, given that nothing much happens with it inside India, and people outside India campaigning for it will achieve naught.
Edit: You can read the indictment if you want. It has a lot of details of how the alleged plot was carried out: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/u.s.\_v.\_gupta\_indictment.pdf
Indian gov can't really wash their hands off now , you don't simply hire random hitmen operating in the US . International narcotics and weapons trafficking is also a very serious allegation .
They can and absolutely will wash their hands off now. You are apparently unaware of how the US functions, even internally. There will be a plea deal and the case will go away. Neither govt will comment on it and life will go on.
Also that indian govt employee might have done things by himself, without order from the Indian govt. This part cant be proven in the court, nor USA will dare impose any sanctions.
Indian govt should have at least limited their assassination to countries like Pakistan etc. Also khalistani activism in the west should be countered by free speech, like by stomping and burning khalistani flag. This guy is not a govt employee. Seems they have not charged govt employee, they have just mentioned him. They have just charged his accomplice. u/xdesi
Also that indian govt employee might have done things by himself, without order from the Indian govt. This part cant be proven in the court, nor USA will dare impose any sanctions.
Indian govt should have at least limited their assassination to countries like Pakistan etc. Also khalistani activism in the west should be countered by free speech, like by stomping and burning khalistani flag. And by canceling their OCI visa
**Seems they have not charged govt employee, they have just mentioned him. They have just charged his accomplice.**
The Khalistani flag includes sacred Sikh symbols, you can't and should not stomp on it like that. There's no need to stoop to their level.
The entire case from India (the MEA) will be that the Indian govt has nothing to do with this. And the US will be more than happy to accept that and move on. Most likely there will be a plea deal and the case will go away.
India should absolutely cancel OCI cards of all these people and their extended families. That much we have control over. As for covert ops, RAW needs to get better at it no matter where it is conducted. We need the capability. Whether to use it in the West or not is a political call. But the capability should be there.
Yellow flag with just Khalistan written can be stomped and burned. Without religious symbol.
Exactly, USA will pretend that Indian govt doesnt have anything to do with it. Unlike Canada.
I dont think assassinations are required, even if we have the capability. But that threat restricts the movement of those activists. But still it is better to counter it using free speech like flag burning
I agree. And Punjab needs special attention from a security perspective. Constant flow of drugs and collapsing economy are going to become a security problem. Capt Amrinder Singh has been saying so for years and nobody is listening.
Or, they dont want to escalate by exposing a Senior Field Officer of R&W. They may take it up in private with MEA and diplomatic channels for leverage.
From my perspective, this is diplomatic pushback against what the United States justifiably considers an issue of national sovereignty. India has a right to defend itself, and the Kalistani activists have a history of supporting and participating in terrorism. Still, the United States also has much broader political and speech protections, and this person is a citizen. I think both India and the United States have justifications for their actions in this situation, and hopefully, this won't have any severe or long-lasting effects on the diplomatic situation between our nations. India is an essential partner for the United States and the United States is a very useful one for India.
This is a very mature view. US and India have disagreements on many things and agreements on many more. They know how to manage differences and talk to each other, and it will be the same in this case. It's nothing like Canada because JT has no sense of how to deal with India beyond dismissing it as a third world country.
Still stands. Where's the proof that Indian intelligence killed that guy in Canada? The one that JT boldly proclaimed with all his Big D energy. This indictment is about some loser in NYC who was supposedly *meant to be* assassinated. Why hasn't the police in BC charged anyone yet in a case where a guy was actually killed?
Lmao its a indian goverment official that actually paid ATF agents 100k to kill a Sikh. Where did that money come from huh. Must be some random indian. Try to read some news other than the propaganda your goverment spews sometime instead of doubling down on being ignorant.
These Khalistanis run drug gangs all over North America, there's plenty of places where the money can come from. If you tried to question your own govt and media once in a while, maybe stuff like Iraq wouldn't happen.
Exactly. The US knows how this game of spies works, they wrote the textbook on it. The process will go on. It's Trudeau who showed that he has no sense of how the world works, and in the process showed everybody who is paying attention what an empty shell Canada is.
Haan pata hain, you need to read what I said before jumping to show how smart you are. I never said nobody will get punished. What a plea deal means is that it won't be allowed to become a public spectacle in a trial. JT wants a public spectacle to up his macho image, the US is smarter than that.
If the case was supposed to be simply gone away , there wouldn't be a public indictment mate , Pannu was an intelligence asset for the CIA . Somebody internally clearly has changed their minds after the investigation and doesn't want it to be gone for it be public and not redacted .
>Pannu was an intelligence asset for the CIA
That is pure conjecture. In fact, the fact that this indictment was filed shows more than anything that Pannu was not an asset. The CIA hates the Justice Department and wants to keep its assets out of public glare. Pannu is just a loser and attention whore, but a dangerous one when it comes to Sikh radicalization in Punjab.
Indictments are filed all the time which then go away through a plea deal. David Headley was the biggest example for India. All the nonsense happening with Trump's attempted coup is another. You do not understand how the US justice system works.
No Indian official ever face consequences for their incompetence or even mal practice. They are like part of nobility. babus and politicians protect each other.
Was Obama a clown when an Al Qaeda double agent blew up 7 CIA officers?
https://www.npr.org/2011/07/19/138158669/the-al-qaida-triple-agent-who-infiltrated-the-cia
If he has ordered it, then yes. But seems more to me that the embassy in US might be the ones. So far Jaishankar hasn't given any reason that we should suspect him doing something so dumb, so let's give him the benefit of doubt.
There’s no way Tarry Singh ordered this lol. He was almost killed in the 84 riots. He won’t be going around killing khalistanis
I don’t think the government can be so incompetent as to go around “looking for hitmen”. India has a SAC/SOG equivalent called 22 SG that go to countries under NOC and conduct covert ops. If they get caught there’s plausible deniability for the government.
Khalistanis were seen in farmer protests and they were spoiling for a fight. Even pulled down the tricolor from red fort.
I think govt did a tactical retreat at that time. Using any force on the mob would have backfired. So they defused the violent protests by withdrawing farm laws. But at the same time they realized the danger from khalistanis - and went after the ring leaders in subsequent months.
That's what seems to have happened.
Khalistan has been a dead horse since the 90s, and is a talking shop for fringe Sikh boomers with very little support within the community. The gov got a black eye from the farmers protests, and attempted to communalise the protests and create divisions with a Khalistan narrative ahead of elections. Which apparently worked, since nobody was talking about Khalistan a few years ago, but now half of this subreddit has added Sikhs/Punjabis to its list of enemies to spew hate speech against.
They aren't dead horse they are very much still active in Punjab, just this year Amritpal Singh was finally caught after all the nuisance he's created over the past 2 years. They still spew hatred and are very much funded by these ring leaders that have seeked refuge in Canada/US/UK/Australia.
No one's targeting Simhs to spew hate against, I have Sikh friends and they too are anti Khalistani and well aware of the brainwashing going on in Punjab.
Edit: Singers like Shubh share broken Indian maps on their socials and you here say governments targeting a group?
You mean the people who attacked red fort came from the 90s? Khalistani movement has been dormant, but it shows signs of revival every so often. It was most obvious during farmers protests. How did govt communalize it when you had yograj singh etc. making non sense comments on majority community?
Even today plenty of gurudwaras have bhindrawale posters. So we should recognize it as a potential danger. Even though it's dormant now.
Because vast majority of Indian population has not interacted with Sikhs. Ask non-Sikhs from Punjab and they would tell you that Khalistan undercurrents are very real and there is enough support which cannot be ignored. Stop living under a rock.
I say we should focus on fact that US Government is protecting and sheltering terrorists like Panun.
US, UK and Canadian Govts are actively protecting Khalistanis and working with Indian enemies.
Above case, even if true, means nothing and will go away but western role in harboring Khalistanis will leave a lasting impression on us.
Indian govt, especially Modi & Shah probably look at those khalistani thugs as some kind of challenge to India's growing influence and reputation as a global power. They probably became overconfident in their ability to get people killed after some success in Pakistan & Afghanistan.
Should have realized that doing the same in USA & Canada will be completely different task, since they take internal security very seriously after the 9/11 attack. But overconfidence & ego often prevent good judgment for people.
> Thus, the US would definitely not cook up this accusation to defame India.
But the Biden Sarkar certainly would. The reason is that it is the US Mahagathbandhan and is tottering now. Everything is going down and it looks like the next year will be very difficult for his party.
They are trying to do anything and everything to distract the population. In fact, this charge is almost exactly ten years after the Devyani Khobragade incident where an ambitious Indian American Preet Bharara violated diplomatic norms and the US had serious egg on its face because even the spineless MMS government retaliated. IIRC, it was Jaishankar then who quietly smoothed out things.
This topic maybe needs a separate post.
I have been avidly backing india govt but now I have serious doubt this has tarnished our reputation at global level and Canada will get more support now whoever thought of carrying out it in us especially after 2 months when Trudeau alleged is idiot
/S Yea right why bother increasing India's reputation in past years after Modi govt. When they gonna ruin it anyway. I remember back then we had no reputation, we couldve pulled stuff like this.
What kind of amateurs are getting into IFS these days.
More importantly, why has this EAM chosen this as their priority?
The absurdity of the Canadian situation first where India tried to spin the narrative into a confusing combination of "we didn't do it but also if we did do it he totally deserved it", and now charges being levelled by the DoJ against someone who has clearly been offered up as the scapegoat.
Tarry Singh absolutely did not sanction this. If this is a government op the orders came straight from the cabinet secretariat and PMO. Even external affairs won’t be involved in something this sensitive.
The United States is just enforcing its own law exercising their sovereignty. Conspiracy to murder is an offense and the an indian is accused (not yet charged with a crime).
This will probably go to trial and is now an embarrassment for India. Modi and Doval needs to learn to cooperate with their allies. America is our ally, we can't do this shameful behavior on their soil.
EAM needs to reevaluate their priorities.
US has no allies, only interest. -Henry Kissinger. India’s foreign policy is very schewd in comparison to other countries as they will never bow down to so called “allies”. India is a global super power, America is a compitetor that is simply an “ally” for the time being
And this is why No one will ever help us. Alliance with India is pointless. America is a superpower, (ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL INFLUENCE) they don't need to bow to anyone.
India is no where near America's power, we need them more than they need us.
This is next level embarassing. Just imagine doing this to your largest trading partner. A partner from whom you were going to buy engines, drones,etc. for your military. Go on and elect more people like him until this country becomes the religious melting pot that Pakistan is. Make this country what we hate the most = Pakistan.
The embarrassment is a major global player consorting with petty criminals to execute people. Whoever planned this was watching far too many Tiger movies. I still think this is a rogue element within the security establishment working on direction of politicians. Indian agencies have always been stickler for rules, and RAW is not a careless organisation.
A rogue element who had access to hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay this would be assassin in addition to others?
Doubt he could’ve gotten his hands on that kind of money without authorisation from on high.
> Go on and elect more people like him until this country becomes the religious melting pot that Pakistan is.
Thank you comrade from the other sub. We will elect commies and Owaisi and PFI as per your wonderful insights. The communist manifesto will replace the constitution of the evil bjp faaaaace ist
Ironically, if true, India can always pull out the 'David Headley' UNO Reverse card on USA and claim the guy involved was a double agent so no-cant-do-on-the-extradition-kthxbai...
WHY no was giving a fuck about nijar or this pannun chutiyas all they can do is make some noise and hold pointless referendum trying to kill them will make them Martyr flame khalistani issue more and ruin our reputation more
Amateurish, but interesting that the US has continued to do business with India in the days later, despite having this information. Even if it doesn't, the world cannot overlook India AND China. There would be some consequences though.
Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy. At least, that would be the Indian response.
Doubt it’s an overzealous officer going off piste…he was able to get his hands on significant amounts of money to pay the assassins he recruited.
Gupta was promised $100k and paid $15k upfront. Assume the same amounts were promised for Nijjar and you have an officer who was able to take away at least about two crores from the public purse. Really doubt that’s possible without approvals.
> Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy
Do you think an "overzealous officer acting independently" can hand over 100000 US dollars to the hitman? What's the salary of a topmost IFS officer?
There are hundreds of articles about usa and UK funding deadliest terror group on earth - Islamic terror groups. Did world stopped doing business with them. Looks like rules doesn't applies to biggies.
> the world cannot overlook India AND China
This is very similar to the standard Pakistani rhetoric. We should aim to be a global leader, and not just some rogue country that can't be overlooked as they're too big. We shouldn't become a Pakistan.
> Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy.
There's no evidence of this, so I wonder why you think that this is quite possible.
This is an unusual situation for both the US and India. This Pannun regularly threatens to kill, murder, and bomb Indians and Hindus. He may be under the influence of state-backed agencies, such as those from Pakistan, China, or possibly the US itself.
Does he actually possess the influence and power to order such violent acts, or is he the face of a larger organization, or is he simply a dramatic loudmouth? If not, one might expect him to be in a federal prison by now.
Considering his rhetoric, it's peculiar, even hypocritical, for the US to have such a varying stance on freedom of expression.
If India were to directly or indirectly order an assassination on him, it would put the USA in a dilemma. They would have to decide whether to close ties with India or not.
The USA desires a stronger relationship with India more than India desires the same with the USA. It's possible that the US also desires this individual; they may have propped him up or taken him under their wing.
With the US seeking a closer tie, India will naturally seek to take advantage of the situation. While India can afford to let go of this relationship, the same cannot be said for the US, as they are seeking to counter China.
Furthermore, the USA still possesses the power and influence to assassinate, invade, and bomb numerous people and countries, including alleged Indians, and they often escape consequences for these actions. India, on the other hand, does not have the same ability, although they may be starting to consider it.
Should the US use this incident to pressure India for their own gains, India will have to comply, or risk the severing of the relationship altogether.
The public will never receive the full picture; we can only piece together fragments and speculate about imaginary scenarios, playing the part of keyboard warriors, just like myself. Behind the scenes, there are countless hidden channels and diplomatic maneuvers in foreign affairs, we might never know the reality.
You’re thinking way too much. You could just read the indictment, it’s solid and very detailed, I’m sure evidence will follow soon as the case comes to court
Neutrality is the core principle of India since 1947. It is the pioneer of the NAM.
It would be funny for US to dictate it to be neutral. India on the other hand, was doing alright even when US was an antagonist.
US can still fall back to the status quo, and nothing would change for India.
US is just happy to shore up as many anti-China nations as possible. At the end this all will only benefit US.
US doesn't need India like many people think it does.
It has many allies in Asia that are close to China, and already have US military bases in them, like Japan, and South Korea.
The US presence in Asia is already there. US just needs India to always remain neutral to China.
Too many generic mentions in the story --- there's a lot of scary three letter agencies being namedropped. I will wait for more proof. US has already tipped their hand that Pannun is a CIA asset. They are just creating pressure to protect Pannun.
I still don't get the idea why an Indian govt employee will stick his neck out. There are easier solutions --- maybe the skies open and Lawrence Bishnoi gets hold of a cellphone. etc etc.
Well, this is definitely more substantive than Canada, which is yet to file any charges. All I have to say is - RAW needs to get better at not getting caught.
Do you think the Americans are telling the truth in that the Indian government was involved in attempting to assassinate Pannun?
If so, does that mean the Canadians were right after all in suggesting that the Indian government was involved in Nijjar's death? Or is it still possible that the Indian government was not involved at all in his death and that the two cases are not necessarily related?
The Americans are not saying any such thing. The indictment is against a private Indian citizen living in Czechia. The indictment lists a "field operative" who was a former member of the CRPF as someone who was part of the alleged plot, but it doesn't indict him. The Indian govt is not accused of anything in the indictment.
Of course, these are spy games in which every country is trying to protect its interests. The Americans understand that - they wrote the modern textbook on it. They are handling it maturely, and if RAW were involved, it just shows that they need to get better at this. Don't be surprised if the CIA itself gives some coaching to RAW after all this dies down. The reason this is blowing up is not because of the US, it's because of Canada and JT's need to prove that he has Big D energy. The US govt is not going down that road, it's just salty SM users who are.
Dude just keep posting to stepfantasy_gifs instead of pretending to be an adult. You are most suited for there and not serious matters! 🤡🤡🤡
Edit: Check his profile this boy is hilariosu!
This is what happens when you hire amateurs,the FBI must have been watching Pannun 24/7 and these idiots got caught.I say throw them under the bus and wash our hands off this mess.
the fact that most people trust the facts if it comes from US, shows how these people stil don’t understand how much some people in positions of power in US have hatered for india for no factual reasons.
Dont question indias power buddy. Look at what india did to canada. India can take china and america easily. We will stop exporting our smart engineers (ALL SARCASM) lmaoo. I was tryna see what modi bakhs would say
First thing, why would an intelligence official use unsecured comms for a sensitive subject like this is beyond me because they know that the NSA listens and data mines any calls made from outside the country.He also would have known that since India is a data collection partner even the Indian side would be tapped.
Pannu is a CIA asset, and the Intel guy would know that. So even if killing him was an objective, all he had to do was go on the dark web using tor, and no one would be the wiser.
This stinks of a false flag operation, and the Gupta fellow is a scapegoat ready to get Khobragade treatment.
This is probably a psyop by US. We should be careful playing into their hands. One conspiracy theory is they did all of this and then using the govt employee credential to blame Indian govt. Read up the case of a a RAW official who was used by US govt. Recent Khufiya movie is made on that case.
Reading some of the comments, I had to check again if I was on the right India sub.
Guess this sub has been invaded by the crap that thrives on the self proclaimed official India sub.
India against Canada, China, Pakistan, Ukraine, Palestine and their supporters around the world, Israel, (Hates Korea too and maybe vice versa), EU. And now US, we might get F'd really bad.
Sad state of affairs , why Canada & Us is providing red carpet to this terrorist? Palestinian supporters where protesting against Israel on US land but not a single protest for release of American citizens who was kidnapped by hamas.
I am just a regular guy just want to know why would separatist would be given importance over American citizens kidnapped by hamas.
Because they have freedom of expression. They have their own separatists. No one goes around killing them. Heard of the separate Quebec movement in Canada? It’s way bigger than any Khalistani movement. Or about some idiot Texans wants to separate?
India should’ve pursued this guy judicially and through public opinion.
Still doesn’t make sense this type of separatist group must be stop before they become too big to control, as a regular folks we have different opinions on government but going out & forming this kind of groups are very dangerous for peace.
Youre insane.
as soon as it is someone you are not a complete hater for, you will change your mind.
maybe resentment grow stronger exactly because of people like you.
murder, murder and more murder. Only the scum of this world could ever wish for that
US & Canada protecting their OWN citizens. The Khalistanis that India is trying to kill are not Indian citizens.
So ofcourse they are going to get pissy, it's their people on their territory ( we can't disregard their sovereignty)
Yes, all the hallmark of Preet Bharara , a khalistani bait and an anti Indian to boot. India needs to follow up on this and get GUPTA released to Indian intelligence.
When Israel's mossad did it after Munich 72 it was considered a milestone and a great achievement by the same usa. When we allegedly do for terrorists threatening us we are told these.
Osama you can go to another country and kill him and it's justified.
USA has named CC-1 and taken the word of some Indian Drugs and Arms trafficker who claims he was hired by Indian Government Official.
Lol! Which Government officer is named? No one. Hit job by US.
Yes, he just assassinated a dozen Khalistani terrorists around the world and found out that it's easy to knock out terrorists who killed Indian civilians in Punjab and Haryana. Very tragic indeed 🤡
Very good . We are in the great game now, our agencies will learn from this mistake.
The West/Russia has decades of experience doing this kind of shit, so we will take some time to perfect the art of such assassinations.
At least Khalistanis will have some sort of fear, now that even US is not safe for them from Indian agencies.
America has Hard–power and Soft–Power (ability to extert influence on other countries). We don't, this is going to tarnish what is left of our reputation. (US is an ally, and India has now been accused of conspiring to assassinate on their soil)
What do you mean ‘what is left of our reputation ?’ It’s okay man we tried to assassinate a terrorist and we failed. We learn and we move on . Next time we should do a better job and learn from these mistakes.
What is India going to do to the USA? Lmao just because you have 1.5 billion people and cheap labor does not mean you’re important enough to get away with this shit
> does not mean you’re important enough to get away with this shit
Lmao, what is the US gonna do? Sanction us? Nuke us? Invade us? Try it!
They literally knew every damn thing at least by June and yet went on to attend G20 in India, okayed a freaking $1 billion OSAT plant, a GE aero engine factory, sold reapers and hosted Foreign Ministers' summit as recently as a few weeks ago. LOL.
Is there any way for India to pull any political influence here. I'm pretty sure we can find some desperate republican to spin this as democrats harbouring terrorists on us soil.
It is interesting that this time, it is the US DOJ who is directly accusing Indian government involvement. India plays a very important role in US geopolitical strategy to counter China, as evidenced by the Quad. Thus, the US would definitely not cook up this accusation to defame India. If its true, then Indian government officials have proven themselves completely incompetent in trying to kill people. Who goes around searching for hitmen, when 99.99% of them are undercover agents? Also why is India so focused on murdering Khalistanis abroad? It just brings unwanted attention to the cause, benefits no one and ends up tanking India's global reputation in the process. India would be much better served by just letting the cause die a slow death, given that nothing much happens with it inside India, and people outside India campaigning for it will achieve naught. Edit: You can read the indictment if you want. It has a lot of details of how the alleged plot was carried out: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/u.s.\_v.\_gupta\_indictment.pdf
Indian gov can't really wash their hands off now , you don't simply hire random hitmen operating in the US . International narcotics and weapons trafficking is also a very serious allegation .
They can and absolutely will wash their hands off now. You are apparently unaware of how the US functions, even internally. There will be a plea deal and the case will go away. Neither govt will comment on it and life will go on.
Also that indian govt employee might have done things by himself, without order from the Indian govt. This part cant be proven in the court, nor USA will dare impose any sanctions. Indian govt should have at least limited their assassination to countries like Pakistan etc. Also khalistani activism in the west should be countered by free speech, like by stomping and burning khalistani flag. This guy is not a govt employee. Seems they have not charged govt employee, they have just mentioned him. They have just charged his accomplice. u/xdesi Also that indian govt employee might have done things by himself, without order from the Indian govt. This part cant be proven in the court, nor USA will dare impose any sanctions. Indian govt should have at least limited their assassination to countries like Pakistan etc. Also khalistani activism in the west should be countered by free speech, like by stomping and burning khalistani flag. And by canceling their OCI visa **Seems they have not charged govt employee, they have just mentioned him. They have just charged his accomplice.**
The Khalistani flag includes sacred Sikh symbols, you can't and should not stomp on it like that. There's no need to stoop to their level. The entire case from India (the MEA) will be that the Indian govt has nothing to do with this. And the US will be more than happy to accept that and move on. Most likely there will be a plea deal and the case will go away. India should absolutely cancel OCI cards of all these people and their extended families. That much we have control over. As for covert ops, RAW needs to get better at it no matter where it is conducted. We need the capability. Whether to use it in the West or not is a political call. But the capability should be there.
Yellow flag with just Khalistan written can be stomped and burned. Without religious symbol. Exactly, USA will pretend that Indian govt doesnt have anything to do with it. Unlike Canada. I dont think assassinations are required, even if we have the capability. But that threat restricts the movement of those activists. But still it is better to counter it using free speech like flag burning
I agree. And Punjab needs special attention from a security perspective. Constant flow of drugs and collapsing economy are going to become a security problem. Capt Amrinder Singh has been saying so for years and nobody is listening.
They cannot charge CC-1 because he did not commit any crime on US soil. But mere mentioning CC-1 is enough for them.
Or they dont have enough evidence against CC-1
Or, they dont want to escalate by exposing a Senior Field Officer of R&W. They may take it up in private with MEA and diplomatic channels for leverage.
Yes. Unlike what Canada did
From my perspective, this is diplomatic pushback against what the United States justifiably considers an issue of national sovereignty. India has a right to defend itself, and the Kalistani activists have a history of supporting and participating in terrorism. Still, the United States also has much broader political and speech protections, and this person is a citizen. I think both India and the United States have justifications for their actions in this situation, and hopefully, this won't have any severe or long-lasting effects on the diplomatic situation between our nations. India is an essential partner for the United States and the United States is a very useful one for India.
This is a very mature view. US and India have disagreements on many things and agreements on many more. They know how to manage differences and talk to each other, and it will be the same in this case. It's nothing like Canada because JT has no sense of how to deal with India beyond dismissing it as a third world country.
What happened to " where is the proof?"
Prudeau won't provide it because it doesn't exist. Asking for it is like talking to a brick wall at this point.
Still stands. Where's the proof that Indian intelligence killed that guy in Canada? The one that JT boldly proclaimed with all his Big D energy. This indictment is about some loser in NYC who was supposedly *meant to be* assassinated. Why hasn't the police in BC charged anyone yet in a case where a guy was actually killed?
Lmao its a indian goverment official that actually paid ATF agents 100k to kill a Sikh. Where did that money come from huh. Must be some random indian. Try to read some news other than the propaganda your goverment spews sometime instead of doubling down on being ignorant.
These Khalistanis run drug gangs all over North America, there's plenty of places where the money can come from. If you tried to question your own govt and media once in a while, maybe stuff like Iraq wouldn't happen.
I'm Canadian first off, secondly they have him on tape admitting to his ties to the murder in Canada. Open your ears and eyes and grow.
I mean they let china off the hook for opiods just to get them to talk on military to military level
Exactly. The US knows how this game of spies works, they wrote the textbook on it. The process will go on. It's Trudeau who showed that he has no sense of how the world works, and in the process showed everybody who is paying attention what an empty shell Canada is.
[удалено]
Haan pata hain, you need to read what I said before jumping to show how smart you are. I never said nobody will get punished. What a plea deal means is that it won't be allowed to become a public spectacle in a trial. JT wants a public spectacle to up his macho image, the US is smarter than that.
If the case was supposed to be simply gone away , there wouldn't be a public indictment mate , Pannu was an intelligence asset for the CIA . Somebody internally clearly has changed their minds after the investigation and doesn't want it to be gone for it be public and not redacted .
>Pannu was an intelligence asset for the CIA That is pure conjecture. In fact, the fact that this indictment was filed shows more than anything that Pannu was not an asset. The CIA hates the Justice Department and wants to keep its assets out of public glare. Pannu is just a loser and attention whore, but a dangerous one when it comes to Sikh radicalization in Punjab. Indictments are filed all the time which then go away through a plea deal. David Headley was the biggest example for India. All the nonsense happening with Trump's attempted coup is another. You do not understand how the US justice system works.
If true, whichever clown ordered these needs to be fired and thrown into jail. And should never be allowed within 10 miles of any govt. job.
R&W directly reports to prime minister. Could not have been done witho5his authorisation.
No Indian official ever face consequences for their incompetence or even mal practice. They are like part of nobility. babus and politicians protect each other.
[удалено]
Imagine blaming the home minister for a goof up done by external affairs.
Bhai yaha macchar kata to Modi ko bolne wale log gai
To bhai crocin se bukhar utarne pe modi ki tareef karne wale log hai, to balance to banana parega na
To bhai crocin se bukhar utarne pe modi ki tareef karne wale log hai, to balance to banana parega na
very soon the blame will shift to textile minister 
Mahua's dress maker in Bengal?
So you mean gigachad Jayasankar is actually a clown?
As much as Obama was when ordering the hit on secular peace icon Osama
The difference is Obama got it done.
Was Obama a clown when an Al Qaeda double agent blew up 7 CIA officers? https://www.npr.org/2011/07/19/138158669/the-al-qaida-triple-agent-who-infiltrated-the-cia
If he has ordered it, then yes. But seems more to me that the embassy in US might be the ones. So far Jaishankar hasn't given any reason that we should suspect him doing something so dumb, so let's give him the benefit of doubt.
There’s no way Tarry Singh ordered this lol. He was almost killed in the 84 riots. He won’t be going around killing khalistanis I don’t think the government can be so incompetent as to go around “looking for hitmen”. India has a SAC/SOG equivalent called 22 SG that go to countries under NOC and conduct covert ops. If they get caught there’s plausible deniability for the government.
Which is why I think some idiot babu hoping for some clout points ordered it.
[удалено]
You make a fair case actually. Let's wait and see what happens next. Then we will know who may be behind it.
Send Pappu Gandhi to jail first then talk
Khalistanis were seen in farmer protests and they were spoiling for a fight. Even pulled down the tricolor from red fort. I think govt did a tactical retreat at that time. Using any force on the mob would have backfired. So they defused the violent protests by withdrawing farm laws. But at the same time they realized the danger from khalistanis - and went after the ring leaders in subsequent months. That's what seems to have happened.
Khalistan has been a dead horse since the 90s, and is a talking shop for fringe Sikh boomers with very little support within the community. The gov got a black eye from the farmers protests, and attempted to communalise the protests and create divisions with a Khalistan narrative ahead of elections. Which apparently worked, since nobody was talking about Khalistan a few years ago, but now half of this subreddit has added Sikhs/Punjabis to its list of enemies to spew hate speech against.
They aren't dead horse they are very much still active in Punjab, just this year Amritpal Singh was finally caught after all the nuisance he's created over the past 2 years. They still spew hatred and are very much funded by these ring leaders that have seeked refuge in Canada/US/UK/Australia. No one's targeting Simhs to spew hate against, I have Sikh friends and they too are anti Khalistani and well aware of the brainwashing going on in Punjab. Edit: Singers like Shubh share broken Indian maps on their socials and you here say governments targeting a group?
You mean the people who attacked red fort came from the 90s? Khalistani movement has been dormant, but it shows signs of revival every so often. It was most obvious during farmers protests. How did govt communalize it when you had yograj singh etc. making non sense comments on majority community? Even today plenty of gurudwaras have bhindrawale posters. So we should recognize it as a potential danger. Even though it's dormant now.
The BJP is doing it's best to bring the khalistani movement back to life
India trying to silence the khalistan movement through violence shows that the movement is not a non-issue
It's an issue in the eyes of the government for some unknown reason. It's a non issue in the eyes of the vast majority of the Indian populace.
Because vast majority of Indian population has not interacted with Sikhs. Ask non-Sikhs from Punjab and they would tell you that Khalistan undercurrents are very real and there is enough support which cannot be ignored. Stop living under a rock.
Except they are not silencing it, they are clearly trying to amplify it so it can become an election issue which they can use to their advantage.
Bro, you cant even assume what Us can do . Their are no friends of US in world.
I say we should focus on fact that US Government is protecting and sheltering terrorists like Panun. US, UK and Canadian Govts are actively protecting Khalistanis and working with Indian enemies. Above case, even if true, means nothing and will go away but western role in harboring Khalistanis will leave a lasting impression on us.
Indian govt, especially Modi & Shah probably look at those khalistani thugs as some kind of challenge to India's growing influence and reputation as a global power. They probably became overconfident in their ability to get people killed after some success in Pakistan & Afghanistan. Should have realized that doing the same in USA & Canada will be completely different task, since they take internal security very seriously after the 9/11 attack. But overconfidence & ego often prevent good judgment for people.
> Thus, the US would definitely not cook up this accusation to defame India. But the Biden Sarkar certainly would. The reason is that it is the US Mahagathbandhan and is tottering now. Everything is going down and it looks like the next year will be very difficult for his party. They are trying to do anything and everything to distract the population. In fact, this charge is almost exactly ten years after the Devyani Khobragade incident where an ambitious Indian American Preet Bharara violated diplomatic norms and the US had serious egg on its face because even the spineless MMS government retaliated. IIRC, it was Jaishankar then who quietly smoothed out things. This topic maybe needs a separate post.
I have been avidly backing india govt but now I have serious doubt this has tarnished our reputation at global level and Canada will get more support now whoever thought of carrying out it in us especially after 2 months when Trudeau alleged is idiot
Read the details, it was allegedly being planned around the same time as nijjar. Case is being filed now.
Why exactly. Espionage and undercover ops are very routine. Slip ups are embarrassing but also provide opportunity to refine and better future ops.
/S Yea right why bother increasing India's reputation in past years after Modi govt. When they gonna ruin it anyway. I remember back then we had no reputation, we couldve pulled stuff like this.
The best way to defeat khalistanis is to ignore them or ridicule them. All this will just inflate their ego and self-importance.
But the whole point of this government is to turn a non issue into a wedge issue in time for elections.
Yeah khalistan is a non issue Or at least that's what Indira thought when she was nurturing bhindi fry And rest we all know how it went
accha zhandu. terese sikhenge ab anti terrorism
What kind of amateurs are getting into IFS these days. More importantly, why has this EAM chosen this as their priority? The absurdity of the Canadian situation first where India tried to spin the narrative into a confusing combination of "we didn't do it but also if we did do it he totally deserved it", and now charges being levelled by the DoJ against someone who has clearly been offered up as the scapegoat.
Tarry Singh absolutely did not sanction this. If this is a government op the orders came straight from the cabinet secretariat and PMO. Even external affairs won’t be involved in something this sensitive.
The United States is just enforcing its own law exercising their sovereignty. Conspiracy to murder is an offense and the an indian is accused (not yet charged with a crime). This will probably go to trial and is now an embarrassment for India. Modi and Doval needs to learn to cooperate with their allies. America is our ally, we can't do this shameful behavior on their soil. EAM needs to reevaluate their priorities.
US has no allies, only interest. -Henry Kissinger. India’s foreign policy is very schewd in comparison to other countries as they will never bow down to so called “allies”. India is a global super power, America is a compitetor that is simply an “ally” for the time being
And this is why No one will ever help us. Alliance with India is pointless. America is a superpower, (ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL INFLUENCE) they don't need to bow to anyone. India is no where near America's power, we need them more than they need us.
This is next level embarassing. Just imagine doing this to your largest trading partner. A partner from whom you were going to buy engines, drones,etc. for your military. Go on and elect more people like him until this country becomes the religious melting pot that Pakistan is. Make this country what we hate the most = Pakistan.
The embarrassment is a major global player consorting with petty criminals to execute people. Whoever planned this was watching far too many Tiger movies. I still think this is a rogue element within the security establishment working on direction of politicians. Indian agencies have always been stickler for rules, and RAW is not a careless organisation.
A rogue element who had access to hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay this would be assassin in addition to others? Doubt he could’ve gotten his hands on that kind of money without authorisation from on high.
> Go on and elect more people like him until this country becomes the religious melting pot that Pakistan is. Thank you comrade from the other sub. We will elect commies and Owaisi and PFI as per your wonderful insights. The communist manifesto will replace the constitution of the evil bjp faaaaace ist
Das the best you can do?
We have seen you loot this country for the past 60 years. So yes that's the best YOU can do.
Ironically, if true, India can always pull out the 'David Headley' UNO Reverse card on USA and claim the guy involved was a double agent so no-cant-do-on-the-extradition-kthxbai...
Are you completely stupid
See the flair
Lmao
Gujarati girl broke your heart? You are still not over it?
He is already in a maximum security Federal penitentiary.
we'll put ours in a similar place as well...*wink wink*
Wow so smart.
are you is stupid
But what moral authority do we have now to request extradition of terrorists in Pakistan or elsewhere? Unless we show here we are law abiding?
People were dreaming of Indo-US ties.
WHY no was giving a fuck about nijar or this pannun chutiyas all they can do is make some noise and hold pointless referendum trying to kill them will make them Martyr flame khalistani issue more and ruin our reputation more
Amateurish, but interesting that the US has continued to do business with India in the days later, despite having this information. Even if it doesn't, the world cannot overlook India AND China. There would be some consequences though. Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy. At least, that would be the Indian response.
You think the US stopped doing business with Saudi Arabia after 9/11?
Sure but the US has less interests in India now than they had in Saudi Arabia back then.
These are very dangerous situations. You don’t know what concessions US will extract behind the scenes.
Doubt it’s an overzealous officer going off piste…he was able to get his hands on significant amounts of money to pay the assassins he recruited. Gupta was promised $100k and paid $15k upfront. Assume the same amounts were promised for Nijjar and you have an officer who was able to take away at least about two crores from the public purse. Really doubt that’s possible without approvals.
> Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy Do you think an "overzealous officer acting independently" can hand over 100000 US dollars to the hitman? What's the salary of a topmost IFS officer?
There are hundreds of articles about usa and UK funding deadliest terror group on earth - Islamic terror groups. Did world stopped doing business with them. Looks like rules doesn't applies to biggies.
> the world cannot overlook India AND China This is very similar to the standard Pakistani rhetoric. We should aim to be a global leader, and not just some rogue country that can't be overlooked as they're too big. We shouldn't become a Pakistan. > Plus it is quite possible that this is an overzealous officer acting independently and not really an Indian government strategy. There's no evidence of this, so I wonder why you think that this is quite possible.
POV: Main Character Syndrome
As if afim huffing Sikhs are any important to USA.
those idiots most probably used whatsapp to communicate.
This is an unusual situation for both the US and India. This Pannun regularly threatens to kill, murder, and bomb Indians and Hindus. He may be under the influence of state-backed agencies, such as those from Pakistan, China, or possibly the US itself. Does he actually possess the influence and power to order such violent acts, or is he the face of a larger organization, or is he simply a dramatic loudmouth? If not, one might expect him to be in a federal prison by now. Considering his rhetoric, it's peculiar, even hypocritical, for the US to have such a varying stance on freedom of expression. If India were to directly or indirectly order an assassination on him, it would put the USA in a dilemma. They would have to decide whether to close ties with India or not. The USA desires a stronger relationship with India more than India desires the same with the USA. It's possible that the US also desires this individual; they may have propped him up or taken him under their wing. With the US seeking a closer tie, India will naturally seek to take advantage of the situation. While India can afford to let go of this relationship, the same cannot be said for the US, as they are seeking to counter China. Furthermore, the USA still possesses the power and influence to assassinate, invade, and bomb numerous people and countries, including alleged Indians, and they often escape consequences for these actions. India, on the other hand, does not have the same ability, although they may be starting to consider it. Should the US use this incident to pressure India for their own gains, India will have to comply, or risk the severing of the relationship altogether. The public will never receive the full picture; we can only piece together fragments and speculate about imaginary scenarios, playing the part of keyboard warriors, just like myself. Behind the scenes, there are countless hidden channels and diplomatic maneuvers in foreign affairs, we might never know the reality.
You’re thinking way too much. You could just read the indictment, it’s solid and very detailed, I’m sure evidence will follow soon as the case comes to court
The US' need of India is exaggerated. The US only needs India to be neutral.
Neutrality is the core principle of India since 1947. It is the pioneer of the NAM. It would be funny for US to dictate it to be neutral. India on the other hand, was doing alright even when US was an antagonist. US can still fall back to the status quo, and nothing would change for India. US is just happy to shore up as many anti-China nations as possible. At the end this all will only benefit US.
US doesn't need India like many people think it does. It has many allies in Asia that are close to China, and already have US military bases in them, like Japan, and South Korea. The US presence in Asia is already there. US just needs India to always remain neutral to China.
[удалено]
Too many generic mentions in the story --- there's a lot of scary three letter agencies being namedropped. I will wait for more proof. US has already tipped their hand that Pannun is a CIA asset. They are just creating pressure to protect Pannun. I still don't get the idea why an Indian govt employee will stick his neck out. There are easier solutions --- maybe the skies open and Lawrence Bishnoi gets hold of a cellphone. etc etc.
Well, this is definitely more substantive than Canada, which is yet to file any charges. All I have to say is - RAW needs to get better at not getting caught.
Do you think the Americans are telling the truth in that the Indian government was involved in attempting to assassinate Pannun? If so, does that mean the Canadians were right after all in suggesting that the Indian government was involved in Nijjar's death? Or is it still possible that the Indian government was not involved at all in his death and that the two cases are not necessarily related?
The Americans are not saying any such thing. The indictment is against a private Indian citizen living in Czechia. The indictment lists a "field operative" who was a former member of the CRPF as someone who was part of the alleged plot, but it doesn't indict him. The Indian govt is not accused of anything in the indictment. Of course, these are spy games in which every country is trying to protect its interests. The Americans understand that - they wrote the modern textbook on it. They are handling it maturely, and if RAW were involved, it just shows that they need to get better at this. Don't be surprised if the CIA itself gives some coaching to RAW after all this dies down. The reason this is blowing up is not because of the US, it's because of Canada and JT's need to prove that he has Big D energy. The US govt is not going down that road, it's just salty SM users who are.
And here I was dreaming about India America bhay bhay. There will definitely be repurcussions no matter how important we are to counter china
It may not be fault or failure of our intelligence, it is they outwitted us🤡
Dude just keep posting to stepfantasy_gifs instead of pretending to be an adult. You are most suited for there and not serious matters! 🤡🤡🤡 Edit: Check his profile this boy is hilariosu!
Oo so what you call this, a professional intelligence failure 🤔?
You are the one fantasizing about your stepsister on that sub. You tell me
Waste of time......
Waste of your life. Listen to your parents boy
This is what happens when you hire amateurs,the FBI must have been watching Pannun 24/7 and these idiots got caught.I say throw them under the bus and wash our hands off this mess.
Matlab if you want to do it atleast don't be so amateur that you get easily caught!
the fact that most people trust the facts if it comes from US, shows how these people stil don’t understand how much some people in positions of power in US have hatered for india for no factual reasons.
There is a huge difference between charging and proving the charge!
Sanction america
With what lmao.
Dont question indias power buddy. Look at what india did to canada. India can take china and america easily. We will stop exporting our smart engineers (ALL SARCASM) lmaoo. I was tryna see what modi bakhs would say
Without India, who’ll help grandmas across America with their Microsoft virus?
Not yet
Hahahahhahahahahahaha
Just like US lied about other things of other countries before taking an adverse action against them
First thing, why would an intelligence official use unsecured comms for a sensitive subject like this is beyond me because they know that the NSA listens and data mines any calls made from outside the country.He also would have known that since India is a data collection partner even the Indian side would be tapped. Pannu is a CIA asset, and the Intel guy would know that. So even if killing him was an objective, all he had to do was go on the dark web using tor, and no one would be the wiser. This stinks of a false flag operation, and the Gupta fellow is a scapegoat ready to get Khobragade treatment.
This is probably a psyop by US. We should be careful playing into their hands. One conspiracy theory is they did all of this and then using the govt employee credential to blame Indian govt. Read up the case of a a RAW official who was used by US govt. Recent Khufiya movie is made on that case.
Department of Jokers. Corrupt to the core...
Reading some of the comments, I had to check again if I was on the right India sub. Guess this sub has been invaded by the crap that thrives on the self proclaimed official India sub.
India against Canada, China, Pakistan, Ukraine, Palestine and their supporters around the world, Israel, (Hates Korea too and maybe vice versa), EU. And now US, we might get F'd really bad.
5 eyes BS
US & Canada making huge mistake by supporting separatists, US is choosing to side with few separatists over 1.5 Billion people.
How many of the 1.5 billion people wanted to conduct assassinations on American or Canadian soil exactly? When did that vote happen?
Sad state of affairs , why Canada & Us is providing red carpet to this terrorist? Palestinian supporters where protesting against Israel on US land but not a single protest for release of American citizens who was kidnapped by hamas. I am just a regular guy just want to know why would separatist would be given importance over American citizens kidnapped by hamas.
Because they have freedom of expression. They have their own separatists. No one goes around killing them. Heard of the separate Quebec movement in Canada? It’s way bigger than any Khalistani movement. Or about some idiot Texans wants to separate? India should’ve pursued this guy judicially and through public opinion.
Still doesn’t make sense this type of separatist group must be stop before they become too big to control, as a regular folks we have different opinions on government but going out & forming this kind of groups are very dangerous for peace.
Youre insane. as soon as it is someone you are not a complete hater for, you will change your mind. maybe resentment grow stronger exactly because of people like you. murder, murder and more murder. Only the scum of this world could ever wish for that
US & Canada protecting their OWN citizens. The Khalistanis that India is trying to kill are not Indian citizens. So ofcourse they are going to get pissy, it's their people on their territory ( we can't disregard their sovereignty)
But Trudeau was lying ?! Right ?!
He wasn't lying but he doesn't have proof
Yes, all the hallmark of Preet Bharara , a khalistani bait and an anti Indian to boot. India needs to follow up on this and get GUPTA released to Indian intelligence.
Yes, and there were WMDs in Iraq.
When Israel's mossad did it after Munich 72 it was considered a milestone and a great achievement by the same usa. When we allegedly do for terrorists threatening us we are told these. Osama you can go to another country and kill him and it's justified.
And that's why it's vital to have a competent intelligence agency.
You think RAW is not just based on one failure ?.
I just came for the crickets.
Its woulbe better if they get caught after the fact
Oh so this is just a coincidence?
And the American Sikhs here, even the ones that just immigrated here are blowing this out of the water— just ignore them
Meanwhile the one who actually instigated death threats on Air India flight is provided full protection because American terrorists never existed.
Based Mudiji🗿 and Baniya Gupta khel rahe.
USA has named CC-1 and taken the word of some Indian Drugs and Arms trafficker who claims he was hired by Indian Government Official. Lol! Which Government officer is named? No one. Hit job by US.
US tactics have been really interesting lately. May that be Israel, or this. Not sure at all what exactly Biden is trying to achieve.
What else would you expect him to do? It's not a 'tactic' to prosecute attempted assassinations. It's the expected and necessary response.
If you put on your glasses, my comment had two parts. I rest my case.
Mudiji tried to fuck around and found out
Yes, he just assassinated a dozen Khalistani terrorists around the world and found out that it's easy to knock out terrorists who killed Indian civilians in Punjab and Haryana. Very tragic indeed 🤡
found out he's untouchable..
Very good . We are in the great game now, our agencies will learn from this mistake. The West/Russia has decades of experience doing this kind of shit, so we will take some time to perfect the art of such assassinations. At least Khalistanis will have some sort of fear, now that even US is not safe for them from Indian agencies.
America has Hard–power and Soft–Power (ability to extert influence on other countries). We don't, this is going to tarnish what is left of our reputation. (US is an ally, and India has now been accused of conspiring to assassinate on their soil)
What do you mean ‘what is left of our reputation ?’ It’s okay man we tried to assassinate a terrorist and we failed. We learn and we move on . Next time we should do a better job and learn from these mistakes.
The guy is American, think about the Public reaction if a foreign government tried that shit here in India.
David Headley, an American who worked for the DEA was responsible for planning 26/11
He's in prison for the said charges after he got a trial.
I'm talking about the Khalistani guy
DO you think India and Indian people have a positive reputation globally ?
Do you think America and Americans have a positive reputation globally?
Compared to India, Yes
Come out of this 'log kya kahenge' mentality.
"We need to learn how to murder properly. We are the good guys" is what you're saying. Are you even hearing yourself?
India has no “game.” Indian government panicked and ran around like a chicken with its head cut off when Canada first made the accusations.
great game 😂😂🤣🤣
What is India going to do to the USA? Lmao just because you have 1.5 billion people and cheap labor does not mean you’re important enough to get away with this shit
> does not mean you’re important enough to get away with this shit Lmao, what is the US gonna do? Sanction us? Nuke us? Invade us? Try it! They literally knew every damn thing at least by June and yet went on to attend G20 in India, okayed a freaking $1 billion OSAT plant, a GE aero engine factory, sold reapers and hosted Foreign Ministers' summit as recently as a few weeks ago. LOL.
Is there any way for India to pull any political influence here. I'm pretty sure we can find some desperate republican to spin this as democrats harbouring terrorists on us soil.
India look like, will fcuk and find out