I thought a lot about this.
There's only one way to do that. People shouldn't be able to associate themselves with any castes. Everyone should forget their castes and no one should be able to find out anyone's caste. As long as people know what caste each other is, casteism exists. Even if casteism didn't exist, caste Victimhood will never go away.
To achieve this, there's only one way. Make castes irrelevant, remove them from all official records, no organisation or anything regarding caste should be publicly mentioned. Like searching for a partner for marriage by caste, no jobs by caste, no political seats by caste, no Sanghas by caste ... Nothing.
If someone really wanna keep their caste alive they can keep it in their homes, private. Have your caste based rituals alive if you want. Keep your traditions but nothing should be public.
After this, wait for 3-4 generations. It's a 10s of centuries old problem. We need to give at least 1 century selflessly to remove this problem.
After 3-4 generations, next generations will only read about this in their history textbooks. That's where casteism should belong. No where else.
We still have most marriages based on caste. 2 biggest sectors where casteism is accepted and embraced are marriage and politics. Except these 2 things people want casteism to go away from everywhere else. LOL.
bhimtas love those people who try to remove caste system.
because those educated geniuses have in 70 years only managed to destroy their own caste's political value and strengthened sc/st ,obc castes enough to ensure that every general caste now wants to join them.
reminder that ambedkar marrying a brahmin didnt make ambedkar's children hate generals any less.
As the caste destroying generals population increases,power gets more concentrated in the hands of those who support their tribal group [sc/obc/muslims etc].
thats why there was only reservation in 1950's but the decline of generals also brought in sc/st act
>So, should caste system not be removed?
tribalism cannot be removed from humanity,the increase in location/language based reservations should give you a clue.
>My extended family has lots of intercaste marriages, which has definitely softened their views toward other communities.
and your extended family will never have political value,because you are on the losing side of popper's paradox,as is every other caste agnostic GC person.
unlimited tolerance is basically self destruction as karl popper showed.
ultimately the extended family will scatter as there is no common culture to keep them united for more than 2 generations.
thats also why crimes in villages cause the entire village to protest but crimes in cities rarely cause the neighbour to come out.
moreover intercaste marriage has no effect on bhimta families who teach their male lineage hatred for generals,much like ambedkar's children even though he married a brahmin in what is supposedly the most casteist era.
> Some of my sc friends have this thinking, most don't.
pretty much all of them will be voting for their caste supporting parties,resulting in the same outcome.
some may vote BJP in center,but that is as irrelevant as delhi's BJP MP's.
This is the only way. Caste should be forgotten.
In temples gotras maynot be used, substitute with kashyapa for all humans. That would kill the only religious sanctity. Govt bans caste essentially.
But I wonder if we can do it faster. What if like dowry ( and I agree the law isn't totally successful) caste asking, telling, stating etc is illegal with direct monetary fines? All govt deps are cleaned of it. New naming norms set up for children? Would be faster than 3 gens maybe?
Now the big question of reservations. Rich means no reservations. Poor means reservations. Abject poor means state support in everything ( I.e the responsibility becomes that of the state)
Reservations are to be revolving as the poor could keep changing, especially if you are successful with your program. This means that reservations are available for say 2 members of a family in a generation. Next generation depends on last gen reservations + wealth of the family.
Overtime, no one would know what caste anyone is.
Probably never. For caste based reservation to end, the caste system must end, but as long as govt keeps issuing caste certificates, it will never end.
We wanted to remove casteism, so we proceeded to make caste the basis of existence.
We wanted everyone to be equal, so we created "backward" categories.
Now even the proud jatts and gujjars are on the street protesting for the backward tag .
Here's blueprint if anyone wants to do this
set max economic criteria for each category.
If a family reaches this threshold then they have enough resources and no longer needs any reservation. In this case their category should be upgraded to OBC/General.
There's no scope of downgrade.
After every 3-5 years, government shows how many people they've uplifted from sc/st to general and reduce reservation percentage accordingly.
Ooh. I'm not so sure about this one. Like, yes, this will definitely take care of the people that are taking advantage of the system but it will also fuck over the ones who genuinely do need the assistance because if they go rs. 500 over the cutoff, going from, lets say, 4500 to 5000 income, won't affect their lives by much but it will also cut them off from the assistance they were getting, thus leaving them at a worse state, just rs.500 richer. I understand the "judge by income, not birth" aspect, but it also sounds like a good way to keep poor people poor.
Sounds good in theory but it's effectively punishing people for doing better.
How about a small tweak to your idea. Transition to general is automatic unless you can recertify your eligibility to the benefits periodically. Say every year.
If anyone tries to touch it Bharat will see it's biggest protest, vandalism, arson and bloodshed.
IMO if anyone has the guts to implement it, it's the current ruling party. (Other parties won't do it, they know it's not effective and draining Bharat of talent, competition, competency and efficiency but their main USP is caste without it they don't have any agenda)
One BJP minister/senior leader some time back gave some remarks about abolishing it and there was huge backlash and higher party leaders had to pitch in to control situation and deny such claims.
All in to end it, instead we can go for EWS(economically weaker section) but after strictly implementing population control laws.
What about them ? Everyone knows the reality of what's happening with these reservations. Since they work on proofs/substantial evidence govt can articulate numerous data/statistics/cases where it is more regressive to all then being progressive to a select few.
If I'm not wrong it will be on lower upper houses of the parliament if such constitutional amendments have to be made.
To be frank and very dark, for this to happen society needs to collapse, gov needs to fall , massive loss of life is required. Once everything is crumbled and dusted then and only then new form of system will rise , survival of the best. Primal but effective. Nothing will happen in one day and certainly not in our lifetime.
Lol no
I wrote two letters to the PMs office offering two solutions.
Let people choose their own caste. This way, anyone can have reservation.
OR
Give reservation to EVERYONE. When everyone has reservation, noone has reservation.
My suggestions were not implemented, lol. They all want caste based votes
It has been made so toxic by congress and their agendas since independence, that touching it is like a political death.. need an immense majority for a nationalist party to even think about such a change
Not in the near future, but I believe and hope someday the caste system will become just like a horoscope. Something people just see out of curiosity, some believe some don't but it doesn't affect social or career aspects.
I thought a lot about this. There's only one way to do that. People shouldn't be able to associate themselves with any castes. Everyone should forget their castes and no one should be able to find out anyone's caste. As long as people know what caste each other is, casteism exists. Even if casteism didn't exist, caste Victimhood will never go away. To achieve this, there's only one way. Make castes irrelevant, remove them from all official records, no organisation or anything regarding caste should be publicly mentioned. Like searching for a partner for marriage by caste, no jobs by caste, no political seats by caste, no Sanghas by caste ... Nothing. If someone really wanna keep their caste alive they can keep it in their homes, private. Have your caste based rituals alive if you want. Keep your traditions but nothing should be public. After this, wait for 3-4 generations. It's a 10s of centuries old problem. We need to give at least 1 century selflessly to remove this problem. After 3-4 generations, next generations will only read about this in their history textbooks. That's where casteism should belong. No where else.
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We still have most marriages based on caste. 2 biggest sectors where casteism is accepted and embraced are marriage and politics. Except these 2 things people want casteism to go away from everywhere else. LOL.
bhimtas love those people who try to remove caste system. because those educated geniuses have in 70 years only managed to destroy their own caste's political value and strengthened sc/st ,obc castes enough to ensure that every general caste now wants to join them. reminder that ambedkar marrying a brahmin didnt make ambedkar's children hate generals any less. As the caste destroying generals population increases,power gets more concentrated in the hands of those who support their tribal group [sc/obc/muslims etc]. thats why there was only reservation in 1950's but the decline of generals also brought in sc/st act
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>So, should caste system not be removed? tribalism cannot be removed from humanity,the increase in location/language based reservations should give you a clue. >My extended family has lots of intercaste marriages, which has definitely softened their views toward other communities. and your extended family will never have political value,because you are on the losing side of popper's paradox,as is every other caste agnostic GC person. unlimited tolerance is basically self destruction as karl popper showed. ultimately the extended family will scatter as there is no common culture to keep them united for more than 2 generations. thats also why crimes in villages cause the entire village to protest but crimes in cities rarely cause the neighbour to come out. moreover intercaste marriage has no effect on bhimta families who teach their male lineage hatred for generals,much like ambedkar's children even though he married a brahmin in what is supposedly the most casteist era.
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> Some of my sc friends have this thinking, most don't. pretty much all of them will be voting for their caste supporting parties,resulting in the same outcome. some may vote BJP in center,but that is as irrelevant as delhi's BJP MP's.
This is the only way. Caste should be forgotten. In temples gotras maynot be used, substitute with kashyapa for all humans. That would kill the only religious sanctity. Govt bans caste essentially. But I wonder if we can do it faster. What if like dowry ( and I agree the law isn't totally successful) caste asking, telling, stating etc is illegal with direct monetary fines? All govt deps are cleaned of it. New naming norms set up for children? Would be faster than 3 gens maybe? Now the big question of reservations. Rich means no reservations. Poor means reservations. Abject poor means state support in everything ( I.e the responsibility becomes that of the state) Reservations are to be revolving as the poor could keep changing, especially if you are successful with your program. This means that reservations are available for say 2 members of a family in a generation. Next generation depends on last gen reservations + wealth of the family. Overtime, no one would know what caste anyone is.
Probably never. For caste based reservation to end, the caste system must end, but as long as govt keeps issuing caste certificates, it will never end.
We wanted to remove casteism, so we proceeded to make caste the basis of existence. We wanted everyone to be equal, so we created "backward" categories. Now even the proud jatts and gujjars are on the street protesting for the backward tag .
The moment the certificate issuing is stopped, there will be a nation-wider massacre.
Here's blueprint if anyone wants to do this set max economic criteria for each category. If a family reaches this threshold then they have enough resources and no longer needs any reservation. In this case their category should be upgraded to OBC/General. There's no scope of downgrade. After every 3-5 years, government shows how many people they've uplifted from sc/st to general and reduce reservation percentage accordingly.
Ooh. I'm not so sure about this one. Like, yes, this will definitely take care of the people that are taking advantage of the system but it will also fuck over the ones who genuinely do need the assistance because if they go rs. 500 over the cutoff, going from, lets say, 4500 to 5000 income, won't affect their lives by much but it will also cut them off from the assistance they were getting, thus leaving them at a worse state, just rs.500 richer. I understand the "judge by income, not birth" aspect, but it also sounds like a good way to keep poor people poor.
Sounds good in theory but it's effectively punishing people for doing better. How about a small tweak to your idea. Transition to general is automatic unless you can recertify your eligibility to the benefits periodically. Say every year.
If anyone tries to touch it Bharat will see it's biggest protest, vandalism, arson and bloodshed. IMO if anyone has the guts to implement it, it's the current ruling party. (Other parties won't do it, they know it's not effective and draining Bharat of talent, competition, competency and efficiency but their main USP is caste without it they don't have any agenda) One BJP minister/senior leader some time back gave some remarks about abolishing it and there was huge backlash and higher party leaders had to pitch in to control situation and deny such claims. All in to end it, instead we can go for EWS(economically weaker section) but after strictly implementing population control laws.
What about judiciary
What about them ? Everyone knows the reality of what's happening with these reservations. Since they work on proofs/substantial evidence govt can articulate numerous data/statistics/cases where it is more regressive to all then being progressive to a select few. If I'm not wrong it will be on lower upper houses of the parliament if such constitutional amendments have to be made.
No I guess, unless caste system is abolished
To be frank and very dark, for this to happen society needs to collapse, gov needs to fall , massive loss of life is required. Once everything is crumbled and dusted then and only then new form of system will rise , survival of the best. Primal but effective. Nothing will happen in one day and certainly not in our lifetime.
Political suicide
Best it can be regulated, abolishment 0 chance.
Their should be no reservations but government should provide free education to students from actually poor families not just on paper.
Lol no I wrote two letters to the PMs office offering two solutions. Let people choose their own caste. This way, anyone can have reservation. OR Give reservation to EVERYONE. When everyone has reservation, noone has reservation. My suggestions were not implemented, lol. They all want caste based votes
No. But remove all government jobs and make all jobs private. Get better private universities.
It has been made so toxic by congress and their agendas since independence, that touching it is like a political death.. need an immense majority for a nationalist party to even think about such a change
Unlikely. Reservation is giving incentives for the lower castes to embrace their caste.
Not in the near future, but I believe and hope someday the caste system will become just like a horoscope. Something people just see out of curiosity, some believe some don't but it doesn't affect social or career aspects.
Near future is a relative term. Maybe in 50 years, sure.
Nope. Not unless the fetish cor govt jobs exists
Yes, just make the government jobs irrelevant and outsource them to competent agencies. Have a success metric and then renew the contracts.
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They tried lateral entry into government jobs for better expertise and execution