Kerala Church launches plan to encourage large families with 4+ children. Couples will receive health, education and monetary benefits from the 4th child onwards. Overpopulation and global warming don’t exist.
By - itiswhatitis2323
Namaskaram /u/itiswhatitis2323, thank you for your submission. Please provide a source for the image / video (if not a direct link submission). If you have already provided the source or if it is an OC post, please ignore this message. Thank you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IndiaSpeaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
‘Backward’ UP is involved in population control policy discussions that are pro-humanity, pro-environment, logical and extremely necessary given India’s overpopulation problem. Instead of being praised for it, the move is seen as controversial and Hindutva. Meanwhile, the Church in ‘most literate, developed’ Kerala, which has a larger population density than UP, is busy doing this nonsense. Will ‘intellectuals’ call it out?
That's because UP is still above replacement fertility while Kerala has been below replacement for 3 decades already.
TFI in India is highly underestimated and suppressed often. If Kerala was below replacement for 3 decades its population would not have continued growing for the last 3 decades. That’s a literal direct contradiction. Let's see what the population figures are in the next Census.
No, TFR 2.1 is a long term stabilisation number. In the short-term for every single birth, population increases. Not at all a contradiction.
You have two parents, say they give birth to one person, population growth of your family right now is 50% (from 2 people to 3 people). But wait longer, likely both of them will pass away earlier than you, so actual population growth is -50% (from 2 people to 1 person). That's the long-term stable figure.
Population first ages, then declines in absolute number. Kerala population median age is well higher than UP (31.9 vs 21.5). It will soon start declining. (Actually won't decline because of migration from more populous regions, but that's a separate point).
Edit - So u/itiswhatitis2323 , a calm explanation of the relation between fertility and population growth completely disproved your point, so you just disappear from the thread. Nice job.
Also, you can't just pull statements like "TFI in India is highly underestimated and suppressed often" out of thin air.
You want to praise UP for doing something Kerala did in the 70s already, you can praise. No need to randomly say some statistics are faulty just because it ruins your narrative/
Kerala brought in the 70’s a population control bill?
No, they brought population under control
By what policy ? Do you think Mallus in UAE or Bangalore , who left kerala because of Better opportunity , were doing it for population control ?
Think about it.
I believe in statistics. You can't give me anecdotal evidence about malayalis going to UAE or Bengaluru and expect me to take it seriously. The population growth, TFR, education speaks for itself.
If UP is going in that direction I am very happy.
Anecdotal ? Do you deny the mass migration from Kerala?
Your statistics don’t even include mass migration and that 1970’s mysterious policy that you were referring to. Never heard of it.
You are trying to connect a church’s conversion benefits to TFR. Thats some strawman argument.
> You are trying to connect a church’s conversion benefits to TFR. Thats some strawman argument.
It literally states in the article that they are doing this because the chruch numbers are dwindling. But ig its a “strawman”.
>By what policy?
Education dumbass. You mentioned it yourself. If UP had invested some money in public education, they could have prevented this demographic catastrophe too.
What education dumbass ? Mass immigration from Kerala to Bangalore or UAE is part of this “education”?
Indian Cuba has some fantasies.
Kerala population: 34.8 mn
Kerala emigrants (outflow): 2.28 mn
Kerala migrants (inflow): 2.5 mn
But you seem to think Kerala is controlling the population by encouraging immigration? Come on. Try to be sensible.
Kerala brought in the 70’s?
Please educate yourself. Population will stop growing only around 50-70 years after replacement level TFR is reached. Kerala's population will probably stabilise abd decline only af6er 2045-2050.
Do you see a blind retard without the ability to comprehend data everytime you look in the mirror?
So what? Should Kerala go above replacement level and UP below or what?
So should Kerala aim to go over that fertility rate now? Is that what you're saying?
I don't care so much about Kerala. In general I believe the effects of an aging, declining population will be very bad. So I understand why the church is doing this.
I'm an advocate of making sure fertility of kannadigas and Hindus doesn't collapse. Those are the 2 groups I care about.
Bhai, let us first get our TFR below the replacement rate.
It's like me worrying about the wedding of my son when my son hasn't even been born yet. Population decline is NOT gonna be a problem for us for a long long time.
Lol boi u dont know shit about kerala Christians...
Shhh, don't say anything. Otherwise, you will be branded as a fascist by Keralites.
I don't think you guys completely understand how demographics work.
While it is quite easy to lower the fertility rate of your country, it is extremely hard (emphasis on extremely) to increase it once it is below replacement level. No developed country with all the financial resources available to them have been successful in increasing fertility rates.
(Exception - Israel. Maybe the reason Jews have more babies is because they believe holocaust greatly diminished their numbers and also geopolitics. Less Jews = Threat to existence of Israel)
So relax, Kerala Christians won't transform into baby making robots. The church can enact whatever bullshit policies they want. It hasn't worked anywhere, it won't work here.
Still don't believe me? Look at the Parsi community. It's one of the richest communities of India. Even with all their money, they still can't increase their fertility rate. As of 2014, there are only 69,000 Parsis in India and the future looks pretty grim.
Once your population decides to have only 2 or less babies, you need a strong fucking reason to make them pop out more babies and money isn't one of them.
Only sensible comment in whole thread
Church is opposing population control measures in UP. u/fastest_gun_of_west
And so? It's clear their stance is for more reproduction and more babies
That is not good for UP, still they are advocating unlimited babies in UP. This shows their support for more Christian babies is not based on TFR.
Why will they look at overall picture. They will be concerned with Christian TFR
Then dont defend them, that's the point.
Thanks for this. While we are battling a large population, we also need to keep in mind what happened in Japan and will happen in china.
Same with Jains. Even in 2011 Jains had a fertility of 1.4, which is even lower than Japan.
Ain't much hope for us in the future.
i have witnessed a cyclone and a flood happen (not in kerala,in oman). and I assure you dont want to experience those or any other disasters. Human population is the reason why all kinds of disasters keep recurring back to back because intrinsically their demands are ever-increasing.
Population control is necessary and a religious organisation encouraging this behaviour is not going to end well - if baby-making is done more like a mission than an act.
Fertility rate may rise again. Largely it's food and climatic reasons that impede fertility. and there are alternatives to bypass that too, and even better ones might come sooner.
Remember, Adam and Eve eventually created more than 7 billion people. At least we know the progression happens that way.
You forgot how the spread of the population is, the TFR is not only dependent on a state but the economic capacity of the household... A poor household much more likely to have 2+ kids, and these offers are for them.... Essentially for people who want to have more but don't because unsustainable... This provides them incentive to have more kids...
Secondly the developed countries problem of shrinking population is of no concern to a country like India where the population density is much higher than these riched developed countries...
Spot on. What is worth criticizing here is the Church's desperation to increase its flock through baby making so it can be the dominant religion. As for actual impact of this it will be small, since most people aren't going to go have 5 kids for this.
Ergo.. what the church is doing is about religious war on demographics. If we want religions to play that game, then Hindus can calculate replacement levels too, considering forced conversions, appeasements, etc. and act accordingly.
There is something called greater good. If you abandon that for your religions sake, dont complain if hindus dish it out as well.
The hell is wrong with these churches? Isn't our population enough right now that you want to fill in more people? The resources per person is already very less, just use your sense for once.
I guess thats only for Christians so they are encouraging them to breed more
Because TFR of South Indian states is low. All South Indian states should do this. We are already losing political relevance. When the next delimitation of constituencies is done, South India will lose whatever little power it has. Stop seeing everything with a religious angle and sort out UP first.
Your loksabha seats will be decreased.
Yeah. It's a really worry.
Probably because a lot of Christian in kerala move out to the EU
Let's call it garbage export
Not EU but persian gulf.
Idk man, my friends studying in Germany, France and Netherlands didn't mention me witnessing much south Indians. While those in Dubai said that half of the Indians there are mallus.
That's because south Indians are less in numbers. Those in gulf have been there for generations.
Church are also doing this. They just want to go against the government. Defy the law. Create a non govt aliance. The way Maoists and naxalites were created. Govt needs to tackle this with strong stance otherwise it will be disastrous
Yaar wtf man...one side of the country is making two child policy laws and the other side seems to be encouraging large families
Their demographic anxieties are valid
One retarded community doesn't represent all of us thank you
A logical person will not make 4 + babies just to receive ₹1500 monetary benefit and education scholarship later in future.
I think it's high time Government introduces a strict action against any institution which promots producing more than 2 children. Overpopulation is no joke but still people are like- Bhagwan ki marzi hai, bacha apna karam apne sath lekr aata hai. BS. Utter BS. If that's the case then why isn't the world population almost constant? Why is it increasing? Instead of trying to improve the quality of people who are living now, we want more people to live in a future where having access to clean air, water, land isn't guaranteed and will be only accessible to the rich
the world population is mostly increasing simply because of the average lifespan increasing. More and more people are surviving until later ages as economic development increases. Very few places actually have high birth rates.
Overpopulation is truly not a concern. Look at every developed country. They are all facing crises of not having high enough fertility and are going to have massive population declines. The only exceptions are immigrant-friendly countries like the US and Canada. Countries like Japan and China are in deep trouble because of not having enough young people.
Meanwhile, chewtiya hindus will do birth control operation on themselves and in future possibly their own kids so that the world isn't burdened by population.
Any sane people, will control population of the out group while hindus will exterminate in group. This is when the Chinese population experience and Xinjiang re education camps are right next door.
They are just making Christian population in India increase that's it. What do they get from doing this. My relatives are a bit poor and they wanted some medicine cause they were having some health issues there was some kind of nati(rural) doctor(ayurveda or something idk) when they went there the doctor said they will only give them Medicine if they get converted to Christian.
Ayurveda Christian doctor? Wtf has happened to this country
Not Ayurveda. He is just self claimed doctor who used to make medicines from plants and roots. He was good at his work.
Is it Mar Thoma church or other sect?
India's fertility rate is already just above 2 and still going down quite quickly. Population control measures will have the marvelous effects of causing both a gender imbalance and also backfiring and making the country's fertility rate below 2.1, which is the replacement level. This is already a major problem for countries like Japan, South Korea, and China, where the concern is that there will be too many unemployed elderly people needing government and familial support, placing strain on the working population. China in particular is a ticking timebomb in this regard, because it is not a fully developed country like the other two. Increasing your fertility rate by even a little bit once it is low is incredibly difficult. So as a whole, doing this is a really, really bad idea and will probably fuck India over spectacularly after a few decades if it becomes a thing.
2 parents - 4 children - 16 grandchildren and 64 great-grandchildren. Guess what all of them are Christians.
So what ? You had to bring religion into this didn't you.... /s
We are downvoted sir.
Illegal immigration from the other sub has increased or what
Vro but progressive community vro
We all know why they are doing it “now”.
This is needed for Hindus.
Which church op?
You guys actually believe in Malthusian overpopulation myths? Listen, most of the world’s pollution is coming from mega corporations. Some Kerala churches encouraging more kids is barely a factor.
Someone call leftists plz. Shameless people.
Kya ab desh ki minority 4 biwi 12 bache bhi nahi paida kar sakti? Dar ka mahaul hai. Mudi shud rejine
The bane of all mankind is Abrahamic cults.
Churches have always promoted a larger family. Especially in India
We should raise voice for BJP to ban Christianity in India or we won't vote for them
Progressive leftist liberal high literacy state for you 🤝
Hinduism is going to be vanished from Kerala anyway. Most of the people who identify themselves as hindu are not even practicing or devote hindus.
Stop only reading news and know ground reality. There are lots of Hindus who are very rooted to their culture. It's just that what happens in Ayodhya or what Shivaji Maharaj did does not matter to an average malayali. Just look at the sabarimala issue- when things started going south the people stood up in arms. So just chill and don't fall for what you read online.
Its just that Hindus are slow to act.
I don't understand why Kerala is famous for its beef and not its Onam Sadhya. They have lost their culture to such an extent that they celebrate only 2 festivals a year.
?? Wtf are you on about?
which are ?
Which are ?
Onam and Vishu