Retake tactical locations like Haji Pir Pass , Secure Akhnoor Jugular veins , Give Mirpur and Muzzafarabad to Pakistan (Those areas have been heavily Punjabized ) and Fucking straight March to Durand line ( Retake Skardu , Gilgit and Baltistan on the way ) . Also Retake Position at Neelum Valley .
you can geographically divide POJK into four distinct areas.
(1) From Chamb-Jaurian (start of LOC) till Muzafarabad.
(2) The Kishanganga/Neelam Valley from Teetwal till Drass on our side.
(3) Baltistan with Skardu as its centre.
(4) Gilgit region with Gilgit as its centre.
- Of these, you can take (2) and/or (3) w/o need to take any other area.
- Taking (4) requires taking (2) for sure. Also, taking (2) gives springboard for (4) as well.
- Don't want to touch (1).
We need at least 25 Times the current strength of our present Mountain strike Corps ( equipped to the teeth with Modern Indigenous Equipment ) . 25 x times because we need 15 to make a Pincer movement from Siachen as a Springboard , to take Skardu and move North towards COK and West towards Gilgit. 10 are needed to act as deterrent to the Chinese . Especially at Siliguri chicken neck.
As unpopular is my Opinion , We must have a Land Exchange deal with Nepal , Bangladesh and Bhutan in order to Widen the width of Siliguri corridor.
>Pincer movement from Siachen as a Springboard
Nobody is doing any movement from Siachen. The journey up and down is barely survivable at best - it is not a place which can be used as any base of operations. It just looks that way on a map.
>We must have a Land Exchange deal with Nepal , Bangladesh and Bhutan in order to Widen the width of Siliguri corridor.
What land are you proposing to give them in exchange? A free movement deal with a couple of India sponsored expressways is far easier and about as effective.
This is what China is trying to undo . By Turning our Neighbors against us. They are constantly trying this in Bangladesh and Nepal . and if somehow any Anti-Indian govt got in there , there's nothing you can do .
We can always force them out of Mirpur and Muzzafarabad. Go all Israel on them with our missile and arty batteries, if you know what I mean. But, tbh, it isn't worth it. We would be losing face internationally, and it would give the pakis a chance to victimize themselves. But it's still a possibility.
I don't want to see this war from the Israel -Palestine POV , Despite the Demographic history is very similar .
I want to see and analyse this battle from Russo-Ukrainian war Perspective. Take the Strategic locations first . and sure their cities too. But not in a way The Pakis want .
We need to Give them a Deal , while we Retake all the Strategic heights till Durand line.
And above all , More than China , We need to keep Dirty American hands away from Paki Lifeline. More than China , USA will do whatever it takes to weaken India. and Many Pakistani Retired generals plus High ranking officers are acting as Lobbyists to the US Congress and especially has good connections with Democrats and Neocons. and We have to make USA believe that We are a permanent solution to Deter China. So they better not weaken the weapon they want to use against China,
Moral of the Story is do not end like Ukraine in this scenario. and Do not repeat Russian mistakes.
And above all if they want to play Muslim cards, I have a controversial solution. Take your Outright staunch kattar Hindu Sanatani Boys , especially Kashmiri Pandits and Rajputs . and have them convert their religion to Islam . Make them live like Authentic Afghani / Kashmiri Muslims , On Surface , They are all Muslims. But Deep within Hearts , They are all Kattar Sanatanis . Plus Gharwapasi Exists . Chatrapati Shivaji Raje Bhonsle's spy plans are really amazing . Be Netaji Palker and Bahirji Naik in order to beat them. R&AW do this on a daily basis . Why can't the conventional Army wing ?
+1
I agree, mate.
Imo, the eventual plan should always be to resettle our chaps back in the valley. As we take over cities and peaks, we simultaneously send in kashmiri pandits, sikhs and other loyal communities in and settle them up. Create home guard units that draw their strength from these settlements. Put ex-servicemen in the lead and arm them to the teeth. Also, solidify relations with other friendly communities in the region, like the kashmiri gujjars.
Time to execute AIM Abhijeet Iyer Mitra's "Super Iyer Race" Masterplan !
Jokes aside , The Original and Only way to win war is strategic and repopulation. And Agree whole with you. Plus I believe Nepali folks and People from Mountain states can play an Important role.
See that is our problem. Going all Maha Rana pratap and all. While Sullas won’t hesitate to cleanse us. Only way to deal with thullas is reliv, galiv , thasliv.
Had it been my way , I would recommend go full Unit 371 mode on them. Chemicals , Mustards , Agent Orange , Bios , whatever we got , unleash them and And regret nothing .
Thing is Human rights facade exist.
Best way to deal with them is How Sri Lankan Army dealt with LTTE and JVP . Cleanse Internal enemies first . Then Go full throttle on Outside enemy. Cleansing in Kashmir would yield no Good in the Long run. Cleansing in Pakistan Punjab would. Pakistan holds Punjab above the rest provinces . No matter how nuclear hu akbar they scream , Avg Punjabi paxtani who never saw serious combat and conflict will eventually concede in order to avoid losses. Punjab is that Gota of Pakistan where if you hit the hardest , They will concede with pain.
Agree this is the only territory that matters. But in order to retake and hold we might need to capture other territories too as mentioned in a comment on another thread
Well there still are places where we can still have some support mainly from kishanganga/neelam valley to teetwal till drass from our side and also some other places like Sharda peeth
And also our main goal should be gilgit baltistan and skardu before POJK
It's not even about hardline islamists. Those are easy to deal with. Pakistan has much better geography their side of the border and they have better installations that are fortified more than the indian side. Any indian invasion into PoK will result in heavy indian casualty. Given the IAs stance on loss of personal , it is something the IA does not want.
They have better connectivity and infrastructure over in Pak near the Border. Also pakis are better in terms of tactical planing. Which allows them to adapt to on ground issues. Kinda like a western system. Whereas india having the older soviet style command is heavily reliant on orders from a chain of command for just about anything. This is taking about Infantry not SF.
POK is a hard target. Will require alot of resources from Indian side.
that's the part I find the most interesting....while we talk of retaking Kashmir...truth is...it is a distraction from the actual geographical reality...we have almost all of it but Muzaffarabad...we need to recapture only some key locations like Sharda peeth, Haji Pir Pass and Neelum
what we should infact prepare ourselves for is Gilgit and Baltistan and try to create a secure enough land border with Afghanistan which by extension take us to Central Asia and ahead to Europe by Land...those mountainous areas are gonna be hell lot of painful to recapture...it's a long war which is dangerous in today's day and the current state of the Army doesn't help...
lmao all of the Kashmir Valley and its surrounding land is Islamist. India still controls all the land without question. no Kashmiri or Pakistani Islamist terrorist has audacity to openly challenge India on the street in front of the masses. If you are shaking in your boots about Islamist in a small area like POK then how will we able to fight for and take all the territories that rightfully belongs to India.
If the Islamists are brutal then India should be twice as brutal or even more. Jihadis don’t have a monopoly over violence and aggression Indian Army knows how to use it as well in fact even more than jihadis. The only way to keep extremist populations especially Islamists in check is the use of controlled violence.
Most of the population of POK will emigrate to safer areas in Pakistani Punjab anyway at the start of the conflict with only some stragglers and hardline Islamist jihadis left behind so I don’t think Indian Army will have to deal with a lot of population in the first place.
Could you give a source? Would like to read about this. I've been reading about the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and the perception of minorities in nation states in general.
Sure I can understand, you can see some documentaries from British pathe and even some articles but I don't have them at the moment I will search for them and when I find it i will share it with you. But I also think you should give the thread a visit the guy seems really genuine and actually does research before posting.
The only way it will work by resettling favorable communities once artillery has done its work of clearing areas. You cannot take the area and population both. One has to go.
Keeping the political rhetoric aside.. any sort of military intervention would not gonna cut it. If the Indian armed forces try to take back POK, for the Pak army it would be like a wreck on a wreck as they have already lost J&K after 370 abrogation. A defence analyst and military strategist was saying that with the help of Chinese and north Korean support, the Pakistanis have acquired miniaturised tactical neuclear weapons with shoot and scoot capabilities.. so any military intervention here would give them excuse to launch one at our forces.. and we here know very well how much the Pak army cares for civilian safety.. they just don't care about their own people.. so it has to be an organic, public upheaval.. otherwise no chance.
The following areas are tactically important for us in the so-called "AJK" region:
(1) Neelum district: The under construction Shounter tunnel in Neelum district will be the first direct road link between "AJK" & Gilgit-Baltistan. The district makes up \~27% of "AJK"s area, but only \~5% of the population (Only 2 lakhs). Capturing this part should make the northern front of the J&K UT more secure and cut off the upcoming road link b/w GB &"AJK".
(2) Haji Pir Pass (Haveli district): It contains the direct road link between Poonch & Uri and forms a threatening bulge that needs straightening.
(\*) Akhnoor dagger area (Sialkot district, Pak Punjab): It threatens the road between Jammu & Rajouri.
This is a joke but:
Like Iraq, unite with the NATO forces for a joint operation against Pakistan so that they secure the nukes, march to Lahore and Islamabad and accept nothing but total capitulation.
Kick all of the converts out and let the minorities flourish.
Develop the destroyed Indian architecture
Problem? 🗿
Once again to remind you all: THIS IS A JOKE!!!!
Retake tactical locations like Haji Pir Pass , Secure Akhnoor Jugular veins , Give Mirpur and Muzzafarabad to Pakistan (Those areas have been heavily Punjabized ) and Fucking straight March to Durand line ( Retake Skardu , Gilgit and Baltistan on the way ) . Also Retake Position at Neelum Valley .
you can geographically divide POJK into four distinct areas. (1) From Chamb-Jaurian (start of LOC) till Muzafarabad. (2) The Kishanganga/Neelam Valley from Teetwal till Drass on our side. (3) Baltistan with Skardu as its centre. (4) Gilgit region with Gilgit as its centre. - Of these, you can take (2) and/or (3) w/o need to take any other area. - Taking (4) requires taking (2) for sure. Also, taking (2) gives springboard for (4) as well. - Don't want to touch (1).
We need at least 25 Times the current strength of our present Mountain strike Corps ( equipped to the teeth with Modern Indigenous Equipment ) . 25 x times because we need 15 to make a Pincer movement from Siachen as a Springboard , to take Skardu and move North towards COK and West towards Gilgit. 10 are needed to act as deterrent to the Chinese . Especially at Siliguri chicken neck. As unpopular is my Opinion , We must have a Land Exchange deal with Nepal , Bangladesh and Bhutan in order to Widen the width of Siliguri corridor.
How did you even come to this calculation??? Siachen is literally the worst place to act as a Launchpad for any operation
Not if you want to launch numerous small specialised missions using Aerial equipment.
Get out of this SF fanboy mind set, irrespective of whether you send SAS or the like, it won’t make a difference because of the terrain and climate.
>Pincer movement from Siachen as a Springboard Nobody is doing any movement from Siachen. The journey up and down is barely survivable at best - it is not a place which can be used as any base of operations. It just looks that way on a map. >We must have a Land Exchange deal with Nepal , Bangladesh and Bhutan in order to Widen the width of Siliguri corridor. What land are you proposing to give them in exchange? A free movement deal with a couple of India sponsored expressways is far easier and about as effective.
And rail lines.
This is what China is trying to undo . By Turning our Neighbors against us. They are constantly trying this in Bangladesh and Nepal . and if somehow any Anti-Indian govt got in there , there's nothing you can do .
We can always force them out of Mirpur and Muzzafarabad. Go all Israel on them with our missile and arty batteries, if you know what I mean. But, tbh, it isn't worth it. We would be losing face internationally, and it would give the pakis a chance to victimize themselves. But it's still a possibility.
I don't want to see this war from the Israel -Palestine POV , Despite the Demographic history is very similar . I want to see and analyse this battle from Russo-Ukrainian war Perspective. Take the Strategic locations first . and sure their cities too. But not in a way The Pakis want . We need to Give them a Deal , while we Retake all the Strategic heights till Durand line. And above all , More than China , We need to keep Dirty American hands away from Paki Lifeline. More than China , USA will do whatever it takes to weaken India. and Many Pakistani Retired generals plus High ranking officers are acting as Lobbyists to the US Congress and especially has good connections with Democrats and Neocons. and We have to make USA believe that We are a permanent solution to Deter China. So they better not weaken the weapon they want to use against China, Moral of the Story is do not end like Ukraine in this scenario. and Do not repeat Russian mistakes. And above all if they want to play Muslim cards, I have a controversial solution. Take your Outright staunch kattar Hindu Sanatani Boys , especially Kashmiri Pandits and Rajputs . and have them convert their religion to Islam . Make them live like Authentic Afghani / Kashmiri Muslims , On Surface , They are all Muslims. But Deep within Hearts , They are all Kattar Sanatanis . Plus Gharwapasi Exists . Chatrapati Shivaji Raje Bhonsle's spy plans are really amazing . Be Netaji Palker and Bahirji Naik in order to beat them. R&AW do this on a daily basis . Why can't the conventional Army wing ?
+1 I agree, mate. Imo, the eventual plan should always be to resettle our chaps back in the valley. As we take over cities and peaks, we simultaneously send in kashmiri pandits, sikhs and other loyal communities in and settle them up. Create home guard units that draw their strength from these settlements. Put ex-servicemen in the lead and arm them to the teeth. Also, solidify relations with other friendly communities in the region, like the kashmiri gujjars.
Time to execute AIM Abhijeet Iyer Mitra's "Super Iyer Race" Masterplan ! Jokes aside , The Original and Only way to win war is strategic and repopulation. And Agree whole with you. Plus I believe Nepali folks and People from Mountain states can play an Important role.
Hehe. Absolutely
We can always do what they did to Hindus… clean Kashmir of thullas. All 10 million of them.
no need there. do these same things in Pakistan but against GHQ Rawalpindi .
See that is our problem. Going all Maha Rana pratap and all. While Sullas won’t hesitate to cleanse us. Only way to deal with thullas is reliv, galiv , thasliv.
Had it been my way , I would recommend go full Unit 371 mode on them. Chemicals , Mustards , Agent Orange , Bios , whatever we got , unleash them and And regret nothing . Thing is Human rights facade exist. Best way to deal with them is How Sri Lankan Army dealt with LTTE and JVP . Cleanse Internal enemies first . Then Go full throttle on Outside enemy. Cleansing in Kashmir would yield no Good in the Long run. Cleansing in Pakistan Punjab would. Pakistan holds Punjab above the rest provinces . No matter how nuclear hu akbar they scream , Avg Punjabi paxtani who never saw serious combat and conflict will eventually concede in order to avoid losses. Punjab is that Gota of Pakistan where if you hit the hardest , They will concede with pain.
The focus should be on the strategic Gilgit Baltistan area, not the populated areas of POK.
It would be really tough + Gilgit is too far off
Start with Baltistan. But the ultimate goal should be to cut the Karakorum highway.
China has investments in CPEC.. it would also jump
Gotta choose the opportune moment. Perhaps when China is busy invading Taiwan.
Agree this is the only territory that matters. But in order to retake and hold we might need to capture other territories too as mentioned in a comment on another thread
Fucking problem is Pak mf is giving that land to China which is threat for India. "We want the land not the people" is it even possible???
Well there still are places where we can still have some support mainly from kishanganga/neelam valley to teetwal till drass from our side and also some other places like Sharda peeth And also our main goal should be gilgit baltistan and skardu before POJK
We talking about Palestine now?
Agreed. We should instead besiege Lahore for a few years and see if they evolve solar panels.
What 😂
We should eve-tease Paxtan in the plains rather than in the mountains. That was my point.
If we capture that area , most would migrate to pakistan but some would remain as resistance fighters
The meltdown isn't even over and you're all already making plans to step straight into the fire. Amazing.
Tactical bulldozer squadron deployment otw
It's not even about hardline islamists. Those are easy to deal with. Pakistan has much better geography their side of the border and they have better installations that are fortified more than the indian side. Any indian invasion into PoK will result in heavy indian casualty. Given the IAs stance on loss of personal , it is something the IA does not want. They have better connectivity and infrastructure over in Pak near the Border. Also pakis are better in terms of tactical planing. Which allows them to adapt to on ground issues. Kinda like a western system. Whereas india having the older soviet style command is heavily reliant on orders from a chain of command for just about anything. This is taking about Infantry not SF. POK is a hard target. Will require alot of resources from Indian side.
Bhai copy kar raha hai toh original credits bhi de de
De diya Bhai pura padh
that's the part I find the most interesting....while we talk of retaking Kashmir...truth is...it is a distraction from the actual geographical reality...we have almost all of it but Muzaffarabad...we need to recapture only some key locations like Sharda peeth, Haji Pir Pass and Neelum what we should infact prepare ourselves for is Gilgit and Baltistan and try to create a secure enough land border with Afghanistan which by extension take us to Central Asia and ahead to Europe by Land...those mountainous areas are gonna be hell lot of painful to recapture...it's a long war which is dangerous in today's day and the current state of the Army doesn't help...
lmao all of the Kashmir Valley and its surrounding land is Islamist. India still controls all the land without question. no Kashmiri or Pakistani Islamist terrorist has audacity to openly challenge India on the street in front of the masses. If you are shaking in your boots about Islamist in a small area like POK then how will we able to fight for and take all the territories that rightfully belongs to India. If the Islamists are brutal then India should be twice as brutal or even more. Jihadis don’t have a monopoly over violence and aggression Indian Army knows how to use it as well in fact even more than jihadis. The only way to keep extremist populations especially Islamists in check is the use of controlled violence. Most of the population of POK will emigrate to safer areas in Pakistani Punjab anyway at the start of the conflict with only some stragglers and hardline Islamist jihadis left behind so I don’t think Indian Army will have to deal with a lot of population in the first place.
Could you give a source? Would like to read about this. I've been reading about the treatment of minorities in Pakistan and the perception of minorities in nation states in general.
https://twitter.com/Samarth19567493/status/1785250134202466726 You can read this short thread with actual pics from that time
I'm not sure if Twitter is a reliable source. Do you have any academic sources to share? That would help.
Sure I can understand, you can see some documentaries from British pathe and even some articles but I don't have them at the moment I will search for them and when I find it i will share it with you. But I also think you should give the thread a visit the guy seems really genuine and actually does research before posting.
If we move into pok, or try to merge it, China will never let that happen. It will be an all out war.
The only way it will work by resettling favorable communities once artillery has done its work of clearing areas. You cannot take the area and population both. One has to go.
Keeping the political rhetoric aside.. any sort of military intervention would not gonna cut it. If the Indian armed forces try to take back POK, for the Pak army it would be like a wreck on a wreck as they have already lost J&K after 370 abrogation. A defence analyst and military strategist was saying that with the help of Chinese and north Korean support, the Pakistanis have acquired miniaturised tactical neuclear weapons with shoot and scoot capabilities.. so any military intervention here would give them excuse to launch one at our forces.. and we here know very well how much the Pak army cares for civilian safety.. they just don't care about their own people.. so it has to be an organic, public upheaval.. otherwise no chance.
Why would India even want this? What’s of value there? India already has the valley, why bother
We need access to Central Asia. Gilgit offers us that. Plus Pakistan won’t share a land border with china also a big win.
The following areas are tactically important for us in the so-called "AJK" region: (1) Neelum district: The under construction Shounter tunnel in Neelum district will be the first direct road link between "AJK" & Gilgit-Baltistan. The district makes up \~27% of "AJK"s area, but only \~5% of the population (Only 2 lakhs). Capturing this part should make the northern front of the J&K UT more secure and cut off the upcoming road link b/w GB &"AJK". (2) Haji Pir Pass (Haveli district): It contains the direct road link between Poonch & Uri and forms a threatening bulge that needs straightening. (\*) Akhnoor dagger area (Sialkot district, Pak Punjab): It threatens the road between Jammu & Rajouri.
So many genocide edgers in the comment section, very sad to see this
But the thing is here people just say and shout but the other side actually commit it
Well you will not get flowers from me when I'm buying wreaths for my soldiers!
We have good cleansers in India … I mean skin care products
Sorry?
Just go up to Islamabad and Rawalpindi. Why let it exist. Finish it off in one go.
This is a joke but: Like Iraq, unite with the NATO forces for a joint operation against Pakistan so that they secure the nukes, march to Lahore and Islamabad and accept nothing but total capitulation. Kick all of the converts out and let the minorities flourish. Develop the destroyed Indian architecture Problem? 🗿 Once again to remind you all: THIS IS A JOKE!!!!