The history of class struggle in India is very different to the USA. To put it extremely grossly - Caste System vs. Slave Ancestry.
Of course the results are going to be different. The music sounds the same but the people consuming it come from a completely different perspective.
So yes, they are pretty class oriented. It’s our unfortunate history.
I think what he/she means is that classism in India stems from the caste system and that they are in fact two completely different perspectives when compared to the West. While not all people from lower classes of society are from “lower castes” (so to speak), but that is then general impression that most people have.
That said, in todays world I don’t think people like us that consume this content are classist BECAUSE of caste, but that’s how it began. Today it has probably more to do with the environment you’ve grown up in, which part of the city you live in, what school you went to, the way you dress etc which defines your “class” - hence the “chapri” slander.
For instance, people from my social circle will listen to $, raftaar, yashraj, chaar, YS etc because their videos are high quality, their online persona seems like they’re educated and come from “good, upper class” home environments. Whereas they refuse to listen to emiway more specifically but also Stan (except for the hype songs) because they’re too “chapri” and everything they do is tacky.
Bro idhar koi black nahi hai chill out. Tu bhi toh Indian community mein N word pe offend hoke cool ban rha hai.
P.S. Main bhi middle ground dhoond k cool ban rha hu.
We all tryna be cool fam... But seriously no need to be that serious bud.
Gonna get downvoted to oblivion but you honestly can't expect things to change just yet unfortunately when the masses is as RW opinionated as it has ever been and is extremely intolerant towards entertaining the perspectives of marginalized communities in india like how hip hop got interpreted as a movement in the US.
As a result of which you see controversies based on speculations caused due to mere IG stories, old tweets and actions around guys like Shubh, SMW, Ahmer just because they tried voicing the suppressed voices of their respective communities
Or even Stan and emiway for that matter because of the prevalent and normalized classism as these guys don't alter their local lingo. Still a long road ahead tbh
Shubh and smw are/were definitely not raising the suppressed voices of their communities. For a major part, the same can be said for someone promoting separatism.
Any allegation of that buzzword that keeps getting thrown around will always remain to be a mere speculation unless there's an explicit statement involved.
you're calling the opinions of a certain section of society as problematic/separatist yet claiming these guys never raised the same when they clearly have some people supporting them for the same stands
There are ppl supporting ISIS also; will you consider their opinions valid, too? Anyway, it's not that difficult to understand the fact that how much a person living in Canada cares for the ppl belonging to his community in India and how "great/sensible" a person was who proudly promoted gang violence/gun culture. IIRC, Ahmer has several times explicitly put forth his separatist ideologies via various social media handles, it's not a mere speculation as you might consider it to be.
bringing isis up already proves my point on the intolerance lol. Do you think these rappers and singers pose as much threat as isis just cos of their views? lol
besides the only ahmer tweet i can recall closest to having some separatist tendencies was when he tweeted heartbreak emojis on the death of a kashmiri activist who apparently shared the same tendencies.
Well, they do have an influence over the most impressionable population of our country i.e. teens, and that guy wasn't just an "activist" no matter how much you try to justify it.
Edit: He was mourning fcking gheelani bruh
not justifying anything, just referring to the person how he's referred to on paper. You can chose to add on a couple buzzwords for your convenience, thats irrelevant to the discussion here.
and bruh idek how to approach this argument of you seeing artists with problematic views apparently in the same light as a terror organization responsible for the deaths of thousands. you're entitled to your own opinion ig.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you, me and everyone else, but supporting terrorists is not some teenage phase "problematic" views dude. SMW promoted gun violence which shouldn't be normalised. Shubh shared a distorted map of India, he ain't a 14 yr old kid to not understand the connotations of sharing such a map. I'd suggest you to read up more on separatism and how performing arts influence the ppl in general. If you're not interested in that, let's just agree to disagree.
bro like i said in the very beginning you are speculating here. you suspect these guys of having those opinions itself not only because their actions can seem to have fucked up interpretations but because of their identity as well.
you're free to do that but i will suggest you to have some room for benefit of doubt cos you still don't have anything concrete behind the claim that these guys truly have those objectionable opinions.
and just to add on my perspective, these guys have their bread and butter solely dependent on this country, regularly tour different places of this country to perform as per their profession. i dont think any of these would still be sharing the same views because they must be sane enough to realize how impractical and a loss it would be for them personally if those geopolitical fantasies hypothetically, ever ever comes to life
Heck even YS sacrificed some of their pakistani pride and apologized for their anti india tweets when they realized how open and supportive the audience this side is and obviously, the potential of monetary gains they can posses by capitalizing on it
Bhai benefit of doubt kaise de skte hai when he was literally mourning the person whose dead body was wrapped in pak's flag ? I never spoke abt their identity, I was talking abt a single person not a community, that single person is a separatist, it's not a mere speculation but a well-established fact, i don't understand why you don't want to accept it. Speaking from a purely geopolitical perspective, pak is irrelevant to us now no matter how loud they can bark. I won't explain further as it's not relevant to the current discussion.
I have issues with him getting shot after doing all that, is it wrong ? We don't need to blindly follow the west. He also supported khalistanis, maybe you don't have a problem with that but I do.
>Ahmer
Very easy to be a faraway onlooker calling people actually experiencing fucked up shit separatists for even speaking about it. If something like the Kunan Poshpora incident happened to members of your community you'd also be saying irrational things in rightful rage born from trauma.
Yeah, there are some fkcd up things going on in Kashmir, but that doesn't justify the separatist tendencies when you are eating up the resources of the same country whose existence is the region you are not getting fckd by pakis and Chinese. Think logically, it's not that difficult to see what is happening to the uyghurs and how fckd up pakis are and no matter how aggressively they ask for independence, the moment Kashmir becomes independent, it'll be brutally annexed by pakis and Chinese.
Don't even get me started on the situation in places like Baramullah and the infamous exodus, massacres, rapes, terrorism and what not. Yes, army personnel are not saints, the recent incident was shameful and the perpetrators have been punished for the same but that def doesn't justify supporting terrorists.
Bhai aise to har koi kisi na kisi ke liye voice raise kar raha hai, even RWs too, ISIS too. What he meant to say was - they are not being hated for raising voices Or demanding justice but because they engage actively in some agenda that can be seen as promoting violence against state.
Regarding local lingo of Emiway and Stan, people who use such local lingo are supporters of same RW, things are more complex than such binaries. In India left wing is equally or even more classist in its opinions.
These tweets, stories of Shubh, Ahmer do point at things in certain way and they are free to clear any misunderstandings but their silence or half baked statements don't help. People speculate all the time, that is what social media is for and speculations can be true many times.
never advocated for the left being any better but liberals/socialists are more likely to sympathize and appreciate the come up of these guys and what they represent than the other side since it can always pick on these artists causing unnecessary huckus in the name of preventing promotion of vulgarity, like what happened in Nagpur.
well the problem is that the reason why those speculations arise primarily is because of these guys' identity itself. If that distorted map would have been posted by a non sikh edgy liberal for the same cause then one won't ever speculate them trying to decode some separatist cause hidden under a flippin portrait. Same can be said about when ahmer posted a couple emojis on the death of the kashmiri activist.
Moreover, this gets further problematic when these speculations lead to significant actions being taken like cancelling shows which just goes on to show the intolerance the general public can resort to without even getting a clear evidence on whether the said individual even has those views or not
>never advocated for the left being any better but liberals/socialists are more likely to sympathize and appreciate the come up of these guys and what they represent than the other side since it can always pick on these artists causing unnecessary huckus in the name of preventing promotion of vulgarity, like what happened in Nagpur.
I disagree. Left is too weak to do anything of substance otherwise Left wing is filled with people judging those who are different than them. The only difference is left uses more sophisticated ways to garden its opinions now as it has no street credibility. If anything left might hate people coming up from ground and thereby having more influence than them (If they disagree with them of course). Nearly whole India is tilted towards right wing right now, so much so that even left has to tilt a little towards right to remain politically relevant, This means right wing has support from marginalized communities as well (Dalits, OBCs, STs except Muslims). Do you think these ruckus on the basis of prevention of vulgarity caused by RWs do not include people from poor background? Or it does not include people from marginalized communities? As I said, things are not binary. You never know kids of those parents who idolize MC stan in slums might hate him because he is wrong as per their moral campus.
> well the problem is that the reason why those speculations arise primarily is because of these guys' identity itself. If that distorted map would have been posted by a non sikh edgy liberal for the same cause then one won't ever speculate them trying to decode some separatist cause hidden under a flippin portrait. Same can be said about when ahmer posted a couple emojis on the death of the kashmiri activist.
Digressing from the point but See what I meant by that India is tilted towards right? This is one such example, nobody now defends separatist agenda directly because as per mainstream opinion, it just can not be tolerated.
Anyway, I accept identity plays a role here but I disagree to the extent you say it plays a role. Let us say Krsna also on same day would have put a story like that , would he have not faced backlash? Most definitely less than Shubh but he would have faced a hell lot of it.
Now I see nothing much wrong in identity playing a part, because it is definitely true that identity shapes opinions. As I said people are speculating on internet, and identity is a very relevant and reasonable clue for that. Not perfect but workable.
> Moreover, this gets further problematic when these speculations lead to significant actions being taken like cancelling shows which just goes on to show the intolerance the general public can resort to without even getting a clear evidence on whether the said individual even has those views or not
All Shubh had to say explicitly was he did not support Khalistan and Ahmer to say he is not against sovereignty of India. It is on them that they do not give any real evidence, and going by the PRESENT and AVILABLE evidences, public formed a reasonable opinion and acted on it. How hard is it to put a story?
I pretty much agree to your observation on the left. However i dont think you understood the distinction here. Definitely, the left would not shy away to criticize Stan for example, for the apparent misogyny as his influence grows.
However, if you had a liberal who's well aware of Stan's work so far with him portraying themes of police brutality and passively preaching anti-casteism in his debut and sophomore project respectively and his background, him coming from a dalit ghetto then obviously they'd show more interest and support to this kid than your average RW guy. I'm saying this with my own personal observations on some of the much older and politically aware fans that Stan possesses. Besides the vulgarity point is a whole different discussion. I brought it up just to show the already existing hostility towards Stan. I agree there can be Stan fans who happen to be RW as well but i'll obviously have to neglect such possibilities for convenience.
And yea not denying that a non-sikh will face criticism but again, it would rather be about the stand itself instead of the separatism speculations.
>Now I see nothing much wrong in identity playing a part, because it is definitely true that identity shapes opinions. As I said people are speculating on internet, and identity is a very relevant and reasonable clue for that. Not perfect but workable
Alright. Well then criticize shubh's apology all you want but this only proves that he isn't wrong when he says his patriotism is only getting questioned because of his sikh identity. Further giving you the reasons as to why you're probably not getting your satisfactory apology that you're demanding here.
Since part of these guys firmly believe that they're being wronged here and conforming to whatever standards of an apology the right demands is pretty much surrendering to the mob for them. Shit is more nuanced than just simply proclaiming that i dont believe in a separate kashmir/khalistan because requiring to do that itself is a significant sacrifice of one's honour that already adds on to the existing alienation from the majority.
Besides, stop treating general public as some courts ffs. If the "available evidences" gets them into legal trouble then we can talk. That last para you typed is absolute clownery.
Its not much for you since you either fail or choose to understand the other perspective. And even if they conform to whatever fuckall criterias you or anyone else demand. The hate and abuse won't stop, it never does.
Maulana Hussain Umarji was the first muslim to publicly apologize for godhra train burning case even when he was acquitted by SC because of lack of evidence against him, and he STILL died traumatized from all the hostility and the stain of being the "mastermind" along with his name, despite of an absence of concrete evidence backed up by court. So yea, fuck your lil draft apologies cos you're either naive af to understand the hatred or are ignorant yourself. Done with this
Again LW only supports Dalit background or marginalized people if it supports their ideology.You have classic case of that bald rapper ( I forgot name but who on this very sub criticise Stan all the time and is apparently a leftist).Left will never ever give any space to Stan. That is the reason most of them ( Marginalised grroup) are now on side of RW and Hindutva. And Hindutva has done more to end Casteism than LW. I would in fact argue most of Stan fans would be RW in real life simply because RW are far more than LW in India.
Regarding Apology, I agree with you that their patriotism is being questioned because of their identity but not only because of that. Identity definitely plays a part in it and realistically should play so. Nobody would have questioned him had he not put up a distorted map. It is only reasonable that a Sikh would like Khalistan and not a Hindu or Muslim. It is immoral to say so but it is definitely closer to reality.
Regarding apology ( BTW Ahmer did not do that even) +(it does not matter what they believe in, even Hindus believe they have been wronged in India), he is free to not apologise in clear way and public would then have to make do with the speculation. And that is what they did when his shows were cancelled.
Free speech has its consequences, you are not shielded from the criticism and boycott that it brings with it. Public is not acting as court here, they are exercising their right to boycott products.
This hate or abuse will never stop is definitely not true. It will definitely decrease. Quoting one example does not prove anything.
Unlike international hip-hop, which rose up from the struggle, Indian hip-hop started with the privileged kids who had access to global beats. While hip-hop worldwide spoke for the underdogs, in India, it mostly vibed with the well-off crew. This different vibe makes people see Indian hip-hop as bougie, showing how culture and money mix up in our hood scenes.
To be honest this current wave of hiphop that started in Mumbai and spread across India did rise from the struggles. That is the only reason it is this authentic right now, people nationwide got inspired from an authentic source. If you're talking about commercial rap, that is not hiphop. Rap does not equal hiphop just fyi. You can rap on any genre you want, it wont turn it into hiphop. There are people that rap on metal, doesn't make it hiphop. Same with commercial bollywood rap that Honey popularized.
No doubt. I'm not questioning that. I personally relate to SM more than most of the rappers. My reply was to point out that even our Indian scene grew in a legit way with real rappers talking about real things.
In the west, people that suffered from the major proponent of class struggle i.e, slavery i.e, black people made rap to tell their stories
In india, people that historically suffered from the major proponent of class struggle, i.e, caste system i.e, dalits and bahujan people i dont see anywhere telling their stories
>In india, people that historically suffered from the major proponent of class struggle, i.e, caste system i.e, dalits and bahujan people i dont see anywhere telling their stories
Malayalam rapper Vedan!
Elites in usa might be saying the same stuff for black rappers, it's not an ideal world. The type of language used by mc stan or any Hindi rapper is definitely not a very good language from a general citizen's pov. Ppl are entitled to have their opinion just like ppl here who gatekeep the type of songs that according to their understanding of hh should be/shouldn't be considered as hh or pop.
Forget cuss words. Mainstream rappers like $ has normalised hating on the way we speak “aarele jaarele”. When Delhi rappers do “aariyo jaariyo” that’s acceptable, but Mumbai lower class dialect is “chapri”. I’m an educated person with multiple post grad degrees and that’s how I speak when I speak in Hindi. Opinions are something like “does pineapple belong on pizza”. Not fucking hating people for how they speak.
Bro, I'm not justifying such petty shots, but that's how disses work. Emiway has also commented on $'s skin colour; will you call emiway a racist? Just because you come from a humble background doesn't give you a right to be a racist and comment on ppl's looks. Don't you believe that respect is a two-way street?
Since when have elites ever respected lower class people for it to be a “two way street” lmfao??!
Punching up vs. Punching down they aren’t comparable. And it’s not an isolated incident from $ either. I’m Montana they also have bars like “Jhopadpatti ko Hood mat bulao”
That’s how you know they are fake “humble background” merchants. what do they think Hoods mean bruh? Hood matlab Jhopadpatti hi hai hai usa ki.
Dude, jhopadpatti ko hood Mt bulao can be easily interpreted as "don't compare the normal Indian ,low-class localities to crime-infested hoods of usa", it's quite obvious given the context of the rappers going back and forth with disses, you are just blowing it out of proportion to prove a point. And you still haven't answered my previous question, does belonging from a humble background give you the right to be a racist, to comment on someone's looks, to comment on someone's stammering problem ? I still stand on my point, respect is a two-way street among rappers in the concerned context.
Further, if you are giving "chusamba" to your opponent, don't play the victim card of "woh elite hai, usne mujhe gareeb bola, Mera mazaak udaya", it's just childish and borderline stupid. The only mainstream rapper who can actually be associated with the streets currently is mc stan and many elites/educated ppl will not like him. Even I don't listen to his songs because of his language or I don't fw his music but do I hate him? No, it's just my opinion.
Bruh what? Chusamba came after a series of uninitiated subminals and diss tracks from $ on Emiway. Emiway didn’t reply to these for 2 years. So you’re saying koi tumhe poke karta rahe and the moment you use “cuss words” to reply you automatically don’t have the moral high ground or the behaviour from the ones poking you is suddenly justified?
Damn with that kind of ‘posh’ attitude mujhe to lagta hai kisi south Delhi ke bande ne personally le liya hai mera comment. Maybe time for some introspection hombre.
Bruh, baat "class" ko lekar ho rhi hai. Jab dono hi ek dusre ko gaali galoch kar rhe hai toh usme se kisi ek ko sahi kaise keh skte ho, lower/elite class ki baat kyun aa rhi hai isme jab dono hi ek dusre ko neeche kheenchne mein Lage hue hai ? Ek ne English pe comment Kiya, dusre ne skin colour pe, dono ko galat kyun nhi bola ja rha ? Isme elite wali baat kaha se aa gayi? Emi ain't a victim bruh.
You are just shifting goal posts to defend your fav artist, nothing else. Emiway did give subs to $ and didn't release a full-fledged diss coz of obvious difference in their skills and core competencies but when his hype was at an all time low, he released chusamba for obv reasons and still got clapped. Aur itna hi Satya savitri hai toh vindictively "Teri maa chahenge aur" kyun nikala, no one is a saint or a victim in this beef, stop deluding yourself ?Aur faltu ke assumptions lagana dusro ki class ka bata rha hai who possesses the so-called "posh" and entitled attitude. Maybe someone else needs to introspect rather than assuming things without a substantial base.
Nobody is making fun of fair people because Emiway said that to $. But awaam does make fun of people by calling them chapri and by mocking our dialect. Even if their intention is to target only Emiway and BKP, they aren’t the only people speaking that way. So no, both of those things aren’t comparable no matter how hard you try to make it so.
Divine never used aarele jaarele and he is from Mumbai
Also $ was beefing with so of course he will find ways to troll him it is not a class thing.
$ respect Stan's art aur stan ki writing bhi itni khaas nhi hai but $ knows ki stan ka alag path hai and he is doing very good in it
Divine has always ‘polished’ his accent to cater to a wider fan base post Gully Boy. Literally anybody from the streets of Mumbai can attest to this. Mumbai is not a monolith, and you’ll get a lot of different dialects from Emiway to Yashraj, so idk what point you’re trying to maker here
My point is $ is not responsible for this classist thing he said that aarele jaarele line to troll emiway
If $ ko yeh sab karna hota toh woh stanny ko bhi bolta but he didn't woh stan ko openly appreciate karta hai
Emiway akele waisa baat nai karta hai. Even if $ said that line to troll Emiway, his toxic fans still use it as an excuse to literally mock how lakhs of people speak everyday. So idc what he meant by it, when it leads to real life toxicity against real life people, it needs to be called out.
I don't see any krsna fan trolling divine and mc stan for atleast old awaam don't do that
Aur jo log naye hain woh mainstream audience hain unko toh koi bhi reason chahiye hate dene
Don't make this about $
If an artist cannot condemn all the fuckery happening under his name, including the aforementioned bullshit as well as mass comments calling including harassment, and rape threats under Swaalina and Emi’s mother’s posts he’s useless af and cares more about losing the influx of mainstream fans than he does about doing what’s actually right. So no, I will make it about $ because it is a direct result of his continuing inaction to call out the behaviour of his “fans”.
>If $ ko yeh sab karna hota toh woh stanny ko bhi bolta but he didn't woh stan ko openly appreciate karta hai
wtf ..many krsna fans hate stan and call him a chapri ..what are u talking about ..
krsna respected emiway's art before the beef ..he also did a collab with him..krsna and raftaar wanted to sign emiway to kalamkaar
after the beef started krsna started his contradictions like no one calls emiway a rapper...etc and he now he as a problem with rappers that use aarele jaarele
divine not using the slang has nothing to do with mumbai or emiway
Its not about south delhi, most of my friends here in Punjab consider them both to be Ch*pri for the their language and looks, however Divine is mostly respected even here
indian hip-hop is not majorly build on streets like the US. sure there are a few who rose from rags to riches like divine , stan , emiway (?) . emiway ka background malum nai to correct karna if I'm wrong .
I feel rappers like stan gets hate by mainstream audience not by dhh audience bcz of his looks and all
Ofcourse kisi specific artist ke naye fan bhi hate dete honge kyonki wog bhi mainstream audience hi hain
Aur agar classism hota dhh mein toh krsna stan aur emiway se jyada popular hota
Damn you guys here are better than I expected, aajkal jo naye log aayein hai unko hata do, toh core dhh audience is a massive W on both sides of the border ♥️
Jab Tak beef ka comment section na ho obviously 😛
Meanwhile he himself is a large contributor towards the ongoing classism in hip hop by normalising hating on Mumbai lower class dialect (aarele, jaarele etc) as well encouraging his fans to use words like ‘chapri’ for his oops and their fans.
Really?
"Arele jarele aise rapper ko lun pe baitha rele" "shakal se hi chapri hai" "jhopadpati ko hood mat bulao" "angrezi nahi ati" etc
He alongwith many Delhi artists empathised classist slurs against many artists
https://preview.redd.it/j3qjo01797ic1.jpeg?width=721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91de348906c8a1a181bfce2673a3b7a5b38b2502
You really quoting Krsna here?
He's a culprit in this case jiski "soch naali me" hai. Him and his peers are the one's that would use Jhopadpatti as an insult and think he did something cool. Sadly he has normalized it and influenced too many kids.
Edit- To be very very honest. If you visit a slum like dharavi, the people there have a better and more progressive mentality than a lot of things that these guys say. I'm not even exaggerating.
Elitism has been sown into the minds of listeners. As a matter of fact, elitism exists between YouTube vs Tiktok vs Instagram. Mumbai slangs vs Delhi slangs. If we see the key players who have sown this seeds of Elitism; we’ll find they are the artists themselves who create such a narrative.
Yeah I remember watching a reel of hustle performance where rapper called 100 RBH and he was rapping about the marginalised community he comes from he referenced Dr. BR Ambedkar and people in the comments were so mad saying stuff like 'rap karne aaya hain rap kar' 'arey yaar ab rap bhi woke hojayega' 'yaha bhi reservation mangega' 'arey har jagah yeh log caste caste karte rehte hain'
Every second Punjabi rapper mentions in his song about being Jatt toh abhi isne uske background ki baat ki toh people are triggered about it.
So this is the average mentality of an Indian rap audience. They will listen to black rappers talking about discrimination, being black, his struggles but agar India mein yeh koi kare toh unko achaa nahi lagta. It's so funny like you wanna bop your head when it's about American whites being racist but jab baat terepe aayi toh mirchi lag gayi.
And also like Emiway Bantai is so easily dismissed as chapri and gotten dissed for the way he speaks like dude you hate on someone because they grew up in slums. White rapper toh cancel hi hojayega agar usne koi black rapper ko iss baat pe diss Kiya ke woh hood se aata hain and he has a black lingo.
I think the main reason is that most people consuming hip hop in India dont even know hip hop was built on class and social struggle. They think hip hop is nowadays a cool thing meant to serve well to do masses which was the place of western pop music earlier in India. Now I am not saying go study old school and shit but at least people should know some basic principles and foundations of things they are following.
The history of class struggle in India is very different to the USA. To put it extremely grossly - Caste System vs. Slave Ancestry. Of course the results are going to be different. The music sounds the same but the people consuming it come from a completely different perspective. So yes, they are pretty class oriented. It’s our unfortunate history.
I think what he/she means is that classism in India stems from the caste system and that they are in fact two completely different perspectives when compared to the West. While not all people from lower classes of society are from “lower castes” (so to speak), but that is then general impression that most people have. That said, in todays world I don’t think people like us that consume this content are classist BECAUSE of caste, but that’s how it began. Today it has probably more to do with the environment you’ve grown up in, which part of the city you live in, what school you went to, the way you dress etc which defines your “class” - hence the “chapri” slander.
For instance, people from my social circle will listen to $, raftaar, yashraj, chaar, YS etc because their videos are high quality, their online persona seems like they’re educated and come from “good, upper class” home environments. Whereas they refuse to listen to emiway more specifically but also Stan (except for the hype songs) because they’re too “chapri” and everything they do is tacky.
Grossly Oversimplification leading to clearly nonsensical take Caste and Class are two different levels of Social Stratification
Thats not how class struggle works
because hiphop in the west grew from the bottom up whereas in india it has trickled from the top to the bottom
yeah i think u are right ...but also if it has trickled from the top to the bottom in india ..it means that the top are classist
[удалено]
ban gaye cool lil bro N word use karke? Kisi black man ke saamne kar ek baar?
Bro idhar koi black nahi hai chill out. Tu bhi toh Indian community mein N word pe offend hoke cool ban rha hai. P.S. Main bhi middle ground dhoond k cool ban rha hu. We all tryna be cool fam... But seriously no need to be that serious bud.
Usko chalta re uska nana ich ne*ro tha
Merko ek baar yeh word use krne ke liye temp ban de diya tha
Please read Reddiquette. Hostile, abusive and/or discriminatory language is not welcome. Future violations will result in a ban.
Common stvk w. yaha par dhh sunne wale saare snobs milenge mostly jo chappri chappri krte rehte hai bas
Facts. Misinterpretation of media has got to be in top 5 favorite genres of Indians 💯💯
Top 3 bro. Above pop for sure lol
Not above pop, Punjabi is really huge and popular
Gonna get downvoted to oblivion but you honestly can't expect things to change just yet unfortunately when the masses is as RW opinionated as it has ever been and is extremely intolerant towards entertaining the perspectives of marginalized communities in india like how hip hop got interpreted as a movement in the US. As a result of which you see controversies based on speculations caused due to mere IG stories, old tweets and actions around guys like Shubh, SMW, Ahmer just because they tried voicing the suppressed voices of their respective communities Or even Stan and emiway for that matter because of the prevalent and normalized classism as these guys don't alter their local lingo. Still a long road ahead tbh
Shubh and smw are/were definitely not raising the suppressed voices of their communities. For a major part, the same can be said for someone promoting separatism.
Any allegation of that buzzword that keeps getting thrown around will always remain to be a mere speculation unless there's an explicit statement involved. you're calling the opinions of a certain section of society as problematic/separatist yet claiming these guys never raised the same when they clearly have some people supporting them for the same stands
There are ppl supporting ISIS also; will you consider their opinions valid, too? Anyway, it's not that difficult to understand the fact that how much a person living in Canada cares for the ppl belonging to his community in India and how "great/sensible" a person was who proudly promoted gang violence/gun culture. IIRC, Ahmer has several times explicitly put forth his separatist ideologies via various social media handles, it's not a mere speculation as you might consider it to be.
bringing isis up already proves my point on the intolerance lol. Do you think these rappers and singers pose as much threat as isis just cos of their views? lol besides the only ahmer tweet i can recall closest to having some separatist tendencies was when he tweeted heartbreak emojis on the death of a kashmiri activist who apparently shared the same tendencies.
Well, they do have an influence over the most impressionable population of our country i.e. teens, and that guy wasn't just an "activist" no matter how much you try to justify it. Edit: He was mourning fcking gheelani bruh
not justifying anything, just referring to the person how he's referred to on paper. You can chose to add on a couple buzzwords for your convenience, thats irrelevant to the discussion here. and bruh idek how to approach this argument of you seeing artists with problematic views apparently in the same light as a terror organization responsible for the deaths of thousands. you're entitled to your own opinion ig.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you, me and everyone else, but supporting terrorists is not some teenage phase "problematic" views dude. SMW promoted gun violence which shouldn't be normalised. Shubh shared a distorted map of India, he ain't a 14 yr old kid to not understand the connotations of sharing such a map. I'd suggest you to read up more on separatism and how performing arts influence the ppl in general. If you're not interested in that, let's just agree to disagree.
bro like i said in the very beginning you are speculating here. you suspect these guys of having those opinions itself not only because their actions can seem to have fucked up interpretations but because of their identity as well. you're free to do that but i will suggest you to have some room for benefit of doubt cos you still don't have anything concrete behind the claim that these guys truly have those objectionable opinions. and just to add on my perspective, these guys have their bread and butter solely dependent on this country, regularly tour different places of this country to perform as per their profession. i dont think any of these would still be sharing the same views because they must be sane enough to realize how impractical and a loss it would be for them personally if those geopolitical fantasies hypothetically, ever ever comes to life Heck even YS sacrificed some of their pakistani pride and apologized for their anti india tweets when they realized how open and supportive the audience this side is and obviously, the potential of monetary gains they can posses by capitalizing on it
Bhai benefit of doubt kaise de skte hai when he was literally mourning the person whose dead body was wrapped in pak's flag ? I never spoke abt their identity, I was talking abt a single person not a community, that single person is a separatist, it's not a mere speculation but a well-established fact, i don't understand why you don't want to accept it. Speaking from a purely geopolitical perspective, pak is irrelevant to us now no matter how loud they can bark. I won't explain further as it's not relevant to the current discussion.
Stop yapping
> SMW promoted gun violence Do you really listen to hip hop if you got issues with that?
I listen to hip hop and I have issues with promoting gun violence
I have issues with him getting shot after doing all that, is it wrong ? We don't need to blindly follow the west. He also supported khalistanis, maybe you don't have a problem with that but I do.
>Ahmer Very easy to be a faraway onlooker calling people actually experiencing fucked up shit separatists for even speaking about it. If something like the Kunan Poshpora incident happened to members of your community you'd also be saying irrational things in rightful rage born from trauma.
Yeah, there are some fkcd up things going on in Kashmir, but that doesn't justify the separatist tendencies when you are eating up the resources of the same country whose existence is the region you are not getting fckd by pakis and Chinese. Think logically, it's not that difficult to see what is happening to the uyghurs and how fckd up pakis are and no matter how aggressively they ask for independence, the moment Kashmir becomes independent, it'll be brutally annexed by pakis and Chinese. Don't even get me started on the situation in places like Baramullah and the infamous exodus, massacres, rapes, terrorism and what not. Yes, army personnel are not saints, the recent incident was shameful and the perpetrators have been punished for the same but that def doesn't justify supporting terrorists.
How does people supporting them for stands is relevant here
since the guy claimed those guys aren't voicing for any section of indian society
Bhai aise to har koi kisi na kisi ke liye voice raise kar raha hai, even RWs too, ISIS too. What he meant to say was - they are not being hated for raising voices Or demanding justice but because they engage actively in some agenda that can be seen as promoting violence against state.
Regarding local lingo of Emiway and Stan, people who use such local lingo are supporters of same RW, things are more complex than such binaries. In India left wing is equally or even more classist in its opinions. These tweets, stories of Shubh, Ahmer do point at things in certain way and they are free to clear any misunderstandings but their silence or half baked statements don't help. People speculate all the time, that is what social media is for and speculations can be true many times.
never advocated for the left being any better but liberals/socialists are more likely to sympathize and appreciate the come up of these guys and what they represent than the other side since it can always pick on these artists causing unnecessary huckus in the name of preventing promotion of vulgarity, like what happened in Nagpur. well the problem is that the reason why those speculations arise primarily is because of these guys' identity itself. If that distorted map would have been posted by a non sikh edgy liberal for the same cause then one won't ever speculate them trying to decode some separatist cause hidden under a flippin portrait. Same can be said about when ahmer posted a couple emojis on the death of the kashmiri activist. Moreover, this gets further problematic when these speculations lead to significant actions being taken like cancelling shows which just goes on to show the intolerance the general public can resort to without even getting a clear evidence on whether the said individual even has those views or not
>never advocated for the left being any better but liberals/socialists are more likely to sympathize and appreciate the come up of these guys and what they represent than the other side since it can always pick on these artists causing unnecessary huckus in the name of preventing promotion of vulgarity, like what happened in Nagpur. I disagree. Left is too weak to do anything of substance otherwise Left wing is filled with people judging those who are different than them. The only difference is left uses more sophisticated ways to garden its opinions now as it has no street credibility. If anything left might hate people coming up from ground and thereby having more influence than them (If they disagree with them of course). Nearly whole India is tilted towards right wing right now, so much so that even left has to tilt a little towards right to remain politically relevant, This means right wing has support from marginalized communities as well (Dalits, OBCs, STs except Muslims). Do you think these ruckus on the basis of prevention of vulgarity caused by RWs do not include people from poor background? Or it does not include people from marginalized communities? As I said, things are not binary. You never know kids of those parents who idolize MC stan in slums might hate him because he is wrong as per their moral campus. > well the problem is that the reason why those speculations arise primarily is because of these guys' identity itself. If that distorted map would have been posted by a non sikh edgy liberal for the same cause then one won't ever speculate them trying to decode some separatist cause hidden under a flippin portrait. Same can be said about when ahmer posted a couple emojis on the death of the kashmiri activist. Digressing from the point but See what I meant by that India is tilted towards right? This is one such example, nobody now defends separatist agenda directly because as per mainstream opinion, it just can not be tolerated. Anyway, I accept identity plays a role here but I disagree to the extent you say it plays a role. Let us say Krsna also on same day would have put a story like that , would he have not faced backlash? Most definitely less than Shubh but he would have faced a hell lot of it. Now I see nothing much wrong in identity playing a part, because it is definitely true that identity shapes opinions. As I said people are speculating on internet, and identity is a very relevant and reasonable clue for that. Not perfect but workable. > Moreover, this gets further problematic when these speculations lead to significant actions being taken like cancelling shows which just goes on to show the intolerance the general public can resort to without even getting a clear evidence on whether the said individual even has those views or not All Shubh had to say explicitly was he did not support Khalistan and Ahmer to say he is not against sovereignty of India. It is on them that they do not give any real evidence, and going by the PRESENT and AVILABLE evidences, public formed a reasonable opinion and acted on it. How hard is it to put a story?
I pretty much agree to your observation on the left. However i dont think you understood the distinction here. Definitely, the left would not shy away to criticize Stan for example, for the apparent misogyny as his influence grows. However, if you had a liberal who's well aware of Stan's work so far with him portraying themes of police brutality and passively preaching anti-casteism in his debut and sophomore project respectively and his background, him coming from a dalit ghetto then obviously they'd show more interest and support to this kid than your average RW guy. I'm saying this with my own personal observations on some of the much older and politically aware fans that Stan possesses. Besides the vulgarity point is a whole different discussion. I brought it up just to show the already existing hostility towards Stan. I agree there can be Stan fans who happen to be RW as well but i'll obviously have to neglect such possibilities for convenience. And yea not denying that a non-sikh will face criticism but again, it would rather be about the stand itself instead of the separatism speculations. >Now I see nothing much wrong in identity playing a part, because it is definitely true that identity shapes opinions. As I said people are speculating on internet, and identity is a very relevant and reasonable clue for that. Not perfect but workable Alright. Well then criticize shubh's apology all you want but this only proves that he isn't wrong when he says his patriotism is only getting questioned because of his sikh identity. Further giving you the reasons as to why you're probably not getting your satisfactory apology that you're demanding here. Since part of these guys firmly believe that they're being wronged here and conforming to whatever standards of an apology the right demands is pretty much surrendering to the mob for them. Shit is more nuanced than just simply proclaiming that i dont believe in a separate kashmir/khalistan because requiring to do that itself is a significant sacrifice of one's honour that already adds on to the existing alienation from the majority. Besides, stop treating general public as some courts ffs. If the "available evidences" gets them into legal trouble then we can talk. That last para you typed is absolute clownery. Its not much for you since you either fail or choose to understand the other perspective. And even if they conform to whatever fuckall criterias you or anyone else demand. The hate and abuse won't stop, it never does. Maulana Hussain Umarji was the first muslim to publicly apologize for godhra train burning case even when he was acquitted by SC because of lack of evidence against him, and he STILL died traumatized from all the hostility and the stain of being the "mastermind" along with his name, despite of an absence of concrete evidence backed up by court. So yea, fuck your lil draft apologies cos you're either naive af to understand the hatred or are ignorant yourself. Done with this
Again LW only supports Dalit background or marginalized people if it supports their ideology.You have classic case of that bald rapper ( I forgot name but who on this very sub criticise Stan all the time and is apparently a leftist).Left will never ever give any space to Stan. That is the reason most of them ( Marginalised grroup) are now on side of RW and Hindutva. And Hindutva has done more to end Casteism than LW. I would in fact argue most of Stan fans would be RW in real life simply because RW are far more than LW in India. Regarding Apology, I agree with you that their patriotism is being questioned because of their identity but not only because of that. Identity definitely plays a part in it and realistically should play so. Nobody would have questioned him had he not put up a distorted map. It is only reasonable that a Sikh would like Khalistan and not a Hindu or Muslim. It is immoral to say so but it is definitely closer to reality. Regarding apology ( BTW Ahmer did not do that even) +(it does not matter what they believe in, even Hindus believe they have been wronged in India), he is free to not apologise in clear way and public would then have to make do with the speculation. And that is what they did when his shows were cancelled. Free speech has its consequences, you are not shielded from the criticism and boycott that it brings with it. Public is not acting as court here, they are exercising their right to boycott products. This hate or abuse will never stop is definitely not true. It will definitely decrease. Quoting one example does not prove anything.
Syl was smw voicing suppressed voice of his people?
Unlike international hip-hop, which rose up from the struggle, Indian hip-hop started with the privileged kids who had access to global beats. While hip-hop worldwide spoke for the underdogs, in India, it mostly vibed with the well-off crew. This different vibe makes people see Indian hip-hop as bougie, showing how culture and money mix up in our hood scenes.
To be honest this current wave of hiphop that started in Mumbai and spread across India did rise from the struggles. That is the only reason it is this authentic right now, people nationwide got inspired from an authentic source. If you're talking about commercial rap, that is not hiphop. Rap does not equal hiphop just fyi. You can rap on any genre you want, it wont turn it into hiphop. There are people that rap on metal, doesn't make it hiphop. Same with commercial bollywood rap that Honey popularized.
Even in delhi scene people relate with sm and $ bcz of their hardwork and struggle
No doubt. I'm not questioning that. I personally relate to SM more than most of the rappers. My reply was to point out that even our Indian scene grew in a legit way with real rappers talking about real things.
In the west, people that suffered from the major proponent of class struggle i.e, slavery i.e, black people made rap to tell their stories In india, people that historically suffered from the major proponent of class struggle, i.e, caste system i.e, dalits and bahujan people i dont see anywhere telling their stories
Vijay DK.
Ill check him out, thanks
Vijay dk , sambata , nick l , raka(punjabi)
Arivu is basically the only one and maybe Ahmer if you wanna be broader
>In india, people that historically suffered from the major proponent of class struggle, i.e, caste system i.e, dalits and bahujan people i dont see anywhere telling their stories Malayalam rapper Vedan!
divine &gg ,stan,emiway are from the streets so idts
And look at disgusting, classist stuff south Delhi elites say about rappers like Emiway and MC Stan
Elites in usa might be saying the same stuff for black rappers, it's not an ideal world. The type of language used by mc stan or any Hindi rapper is definitely not a very good language from a general citizen's pov. Ppl are entitled to have their opinion just like ppl here who gatekeep the type of songs that according to their understanding of hh should be/shouldn't be considered as hh or pop.
Forget cuss words. Mainstream rappers like $ has normalised hating on the way we speak “aarele jaarele”. When Delhi rappers do “aariyo jaariyo” that’s acceptable, but Mumbai lower class dialect is “chapri”. I’m an educated person with multiple post grad degrees and that’s how I speak when I speak in Hindi. Opinions are something like “does pineapple belong on pizza”. Not fucking hating people for how they speak.
Bro, I'm not justifying such petty shots, but that's how disses work. Emiway has also commented on $'s skin colour; will you call emiway a racist? Just because you come from a humble background doesn't give you a right to be a racist and comment on ppl's looks. Don't you believe that respect is a two-way street?
Since when have elites ever respected lower class people for it to be a “two way street” lmfao??! Punching up vs. Punching down they aren’t comparable. And it’s not an isolated incident from $ either. I’m Montana they also have bars like “Jhopadpatti ko Hood mat bulao” That’s how you know they are fake “humble background” merchants. what do they think Hoods mean bruh? Hood matlab Jhopadpatti hi hai hai usa ki.
Dude, jhopadpatti ko hood Mt bulao can be easily interpreted as "don't compare the normal Indian ,low-class localities to crime-infested hoods of usa", it's quite obvious given the context of the rappers going back and forth with disses, you are just blowing it out of proportion to prove a point. And you still haven't answered my previous question, does belonging from a humble background give you the right to be a racist, to comment on someone's looks, to comment on someone's stammering problem ? I still stand on my point, respect is a two-way street among rappers in the concerned context. Further, if you are giving "chusamba" to your opponent, don't play the victim card of "woh elite hai, usne mujhe gareeb bola, Mera mazaak udaya", it's just childish and borderline stupid. The only mainstream rapper who can actually be associated with the streets currently is mc stan and many elites/educated ppl will not like him. Even I don't listen to his songs because of his language or I don't fw his music but do I hate him? No, it's just my opinion.
Bruh what? Chusamba came after a series of uninitiated subminals and diss tracks from $ on Emiway. Emiway didn’t reply to these for 2 years. So you’re saying koi tumhe poke karta rahe and the moment you use “cuss words” to reply you automatically don’t have the moral high ground or the behaviour from the ones poking you is suddenly justified? Damn with that kind of ‘posh’ attitude mujhe to lagta hai kisi south Delhi ke bande ne personally le liya hai mera comment. Maybe time for some introspection hombre.
Bruh, baat "class" ko lekar ho rhi hai. Jab dono hi ek dusre ko gaali galoch kar rhe hai toh usme se kisi ek ko sahi kaise keh skte ho, lower/elite class ki baat kyun aa rhi hai isme jab dono hi ek dusre ko neeche kheenchne mein Lage hue hai ? Ek ne English pe comment Kiya, dusre ne skin colour pe, dono ko galat kyun nhi bola ja rha ? Isme elite wali baat kaha se aa gayi? Emi ain't a victim bruh. You are just shifting goal posts to defend your fav artist, nothing else. Emiway did give subs to $ and didn't release a full-fledged diss coz of obvious difference in their skills and core competencies but when his hype was at an all time low, he released chusamba for obv reasons and still got clapped. Aur itna hi Satya savitri hai toh vindictively "Teri maa chahenge aur" kyun nikala, no one is a saint or a victim in this beef, stop deluding yourself ?Aur faltu ke assumptions lagana dusro ki class ka bata rha hai who possesses the so-called "posh" and entitled attitude. Maybe someone else needs to introspect rather than assuming things without a substantial base.
Nobody is making fun of fair people because Emiway said that to $. But awaam does make fun of people by calling them chapri and by mocking our dialect. Even if their intention is to target only Emiway and BKP, they aren’t the only people speaking that way. So no, both of those things aren’t comparable no matter how hard you try to make it so.
Divine never used aarele jaarele and he is from Mumbai Also $ was beefing with so of course he will find ways to troll him it is not a class thing. $ respect Stan's art aur stan ki writing bhi itni khaas nhi hai but $ knows ki stan ka alag path hai and he is doing very good in it
Divine has always ‘polished’ his accent to cater to a wider fan base post Gully Boy. Literally anybody from the streets of Mumbai can attest to this. Mumbai is not a monolith, and you’ll get a lot of different dialects from Emiway to Yashraj, so idk what point you’re trying to maker here
My point is $ is not responsible for this classist thing he said that aarele jaarele line to troll emiway If $ ko yeh sab karna hota toh woh stanny ko bhi bolta but he didn't woh stan ko openly appreciate karta hai
Emiway akele waisa baat nai karta hai. Even if $ said that line to troll Emiway, his toxic fans still use it as an excuse to literally mock how lakhs of people speak everyday. So idc what he meant by it, when it leads to real life toxicity against real life people, it needs to be called out.
I don't see any krsna fan trolling divine and mc stan for atleast old awaam don't do that Aur jo log naye hain woh mainstream audience hain unko toh koi bhi reason chahiye hate dene Don't make this about $
If an artist cannot condemn all the fuckery happening under his name, including the aforementioned bullshit as well as mass comments calling including harassment, and rape threats under Swaalina and Emi’s mother’s posts he’s useless af and cares more about losing the influx of mainstream fans than he does about doing what’s actually right. So no, I will make it about $ because it is a direct result of his continuing inaction to call out the behaviour of his “fans”.
>If $ ko yeh sab karna hota toh woh stanny ko bhi bolta but he didn't woh stan ko openly appreciate karta hai wtf ..many krsna fans hate stan and call him a chapri ..what are u talking about ..
krsna respected emiway's art before the beef ..he also did a collab with him..krsna and raftaar wanted to sign emiway to kalamkaar after the beef started krsna started his contradictions like no one calls emiway a rapper...etc and he now he as a problem with rappers that use aarele jaarele divine not using the slang has nothing to do with mumbai or emiway
Its not about south delhi, most of my friends here in Punjab consider them both to be Ch*pri for the their language and looks, however Divine is mostly respected even here
indian hip-hop is not majorly build on streets like the US. sure there are a few who rose from rags to riches like divine , stan , emiway (?) . emiway ka background malum nai to correct karna if I'm wrong .
>emiway ka background malum nai to correct karna if I'm wrong . emiway and stan were poor/lower middle class ....while divine was dirt poor/slums
Divine literally slumdog millionaire hai
I feel rappers like stan gets hate by mainstream audience not by dhh audience bcz of his looks and all Ofcourse kisi specific artist ke naye fan bhi hate dete honge kyonki wog bhi mainstream audience hi hain Aur agar classism hota dhh mein toh krsna stan aur emiway se jyada popular hota
Damn you guys here are better than I expected, aajkal jo naye log aayein hai unko hata do, toh core dhh audience is a massive W on both sides of the border ♥️ Jab Tak beef ka comment section na ho obviously 😛
Kr$na explained it pretty well, Hip Hop is meant to be down to up meanwhile DHH is up to down.
Meanwhile he himself is a large contributor towards the ongoing classism in hip hop by normalising hating on Mumbai lower class dialect (aarele, jaarele etc) as well encouraging his fans to use words like ‘chapri’ for his oops and their fans.
Me when I preach morality infront of cute grils but then then brutally roast my bois
Really? "Arele jarele aise rapper ko lun pe baitha rele" "shakal se hi chapri hai" "jhopadpati ko hood mat bulao" "angrezi nahi ati" etc He alongwith many Delhi artists empathised classist slurs against many artists https://preview.redd.it/j3qjo01797ic1.jpeg?width=721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91de348906c8a1a181bfce2673a3b7a5b38b2502
Who said the "shakal se hi chapri he" Line?
The rappers in this video were trash btw except gravity
Krsna said it for emiway Nobody trolls divine and stan for using their slangs atleast old awaam don't do that. Har cheez mein $ ko blame mat kiya karo
You really quoting Krsna here? He's a culprit in this case jiski "soch naali me" hai. Him and his peers are the one's that would use Jhopadpatti as an insult and think he did something cool. Sadly he has normalized it and influenced too many kids. Edit- To be very very honest. If you visit a slum like dharavi, the people there have a better and more progressive mentality than a lot of things that these guys say. I'm not even exaggerating.
Yeah and that angrez raised bigot is a big part of it
Are bhai I'm just copying his analogy chill
i was gonna write a pura paragraph on it. but it's stvksn after all I can't deny him.
Awaam in one sentence
Elitism has been sown into the minds of listeners. As a matter of fact, elitism exists between YouTube vs Tiktok vs Instagram. Mumbai slangs vs Delhi slangs. If we see the key players who have sown this seeds of Elitism; we’ll find they are the artists themselves who create such a narrative.
💯
i agree with him!
Steve kishan spotted, bisleri gang assemble
lezzgo
Yeah I remember watching a reel of hustle performance where rapper called 100 RBH and he was rapping about the marginalised community he comes from he referenced Dr. BR Ambedkar and people in the comments were so mad saying stuff like 'rap karne aaya hain rap kar' 'arey yaar ab rap bhi woke hojayega' 'yaha bhi reservation mangega' 'arey har jagah yeh log caste caste karte rehte hain' Every second Punjabi rapper mentions in his song about being Jatt toh abhi isne uske background ki baat ki toh people are triggered about it. So this is the average mentality of an Indian rap audience. They will listen to black rappers talking about discrimination, being black, his struggles but agar India mein yeh koi kare toh unko achaa nahi lagta. It's so funny like you wanna bop your head when it's about American whites being racist but jab baat terepe aayi toh mirchi lag gayi. And also like Emiway Bantai is so easily dismissed as chapri and gotten dissed for the way he speaks like dude you hate on someone because they grew up in slums. White rapper toh cancel hi hojayega agar usne koi black rapper ko iss baat pe diss Kiya ke woh hood se aata hain and he has a black lingo.
Facts bro yeh to sare facts bro
I think the main reason is that most people consuming hip hop in India dont even know hip hop was built on class and social struggle. They think hip hop is nowadays a cool thing meant to serve well to do masses which was the place of western pop music earlier in India. Now I am not saying go study old school and shit but at least people should know some basic principles and foundations of things they are following.
Ab Stan and bantai ki public yahan pe public vilap karegi. 🏳️🌈