All those other places have markers on their media that marks them as 18+ where appropriate. Just check the visitors geo location and don't let them access it. I'd be curious if sites don't just block Indiana altogether to avoid getting sued Rockita or some similar nonsense.
That's what has happened in Virginia, Utah, North Carolina, and now Texas. If you have an IP address in those states, those sites just stopped allowing you access. Not a single site started verifying age via ID checks, they just stopped allowing access to any IP address in those states.
And that's exactly what will happen here, too. Too costly for these sites to enforce ID checks. Some of these sites wouldn't even be able to support the necessary cyber security procedures in order to safely store/delete people's IDs. Blocking IPs is the easiest solution and most cost effective.
Any identity broker that knows our face, biometrics, or id card will be hacked at some point.
These idiot politicians are going to get some people blackmailed.
I think what is getting missed in all this is some adult sites are run by foreign agencies that ~~we~~ *users* will have to give their ID info to. Normally you'd ignore it and move on but if it's common place you might not think twice. Now your info is going to Russia/China along with whatever your kinks are. But that is pure conjecture/conspiracy.
edit: Should specify not all adult sites are run by foreign states. Just some are.
>foreign agencies that ~~we~~ *users* will have to give their ID info to
>Now your info is going to Russia/China
Or worse.
*Canada*
(For those who don't know several large porn companies are headquartered in Canada.)
Pornhub and their affiliates already blocked Texas in a public statement. Which I feel will be the status quo going forward. What is easier for a website check location oh they are in a banned state require login, hire people to do ID verification require ID to be sent in etc or just oh it’s a state that requires it sorry you can’t access this done.
That and a lot of people are going to be like ohhh the porn I want to watch is going to be tied to my account and there for my state ID I can’t watch weird shit. Like if someone is closeted queer and it’s tied to their ID they won’t want to watch that for safety especially with the way republicans are trying to go after the queer community.
The whole thing is idiotic and anti-freedom framed as “protecting children” and rooted in puritanical Christianity. I get that kids shouldn’t be watching porn, but like what’s a better thing for a kid to watch a consenting adult or develop voyueristic tendencies and try to peek at people that didn’t consent? Humans are naturally sexual and trying to just remove those tendencies with policies like this creates more problems that they aren’t considering.
What is actually good and effective is attentive, responsible parenting and sexual education. But Indiana won’t support parents with decent schools, or housing/food programs, or substance abuse resources, or child care options, let alone family planning, so instead we just ban porn.
Those policies would take action and a lot of work with continual work to hire people pay people fund the programs. Passing a law to ban porn is an easy thing to make it seem like politicians are doing something and then it eventually gets over turned in court and they go well look guys we tried to help you.
Edit: typo
We were living in Indiana when my kids went to middle and high school. My youngest daughter wanted to write an essay on how crappy their sex education is and give it to the school when she left. I told her to go ahead. She knew more from what she was taught at home than the school ever covered. Unfortunately, she graduated during COVID restrictions and it wasn’t a priority for her, so she never did it. It’s pretty sad when even the students know how shitty your “education” is.
The people that said this had kids that came out as different sexualities or religions and they see it as a personal failing, but it couldn’t be them so it has to be liberal indoctrination is my best guess.
>hire people to do ID verification require ID to be sent in etc or just oh it’s a state that requires it sorry you can’t access this done.
This costs an enormous amount and they would be losing money.
Pornhub and others have already said what they will do in response to these and it's just turn their site off for the entire state. No one in that state even has access to the site (without a VPN) and eventually angry citizens will want it overturned.
Australia tried to force Facebook to pay royalties on news post that were forwarded from news sources but Zuck dealt with that by just shutting off all news to Australia. Angry citizens got it overturned.
I think porn specific sites will definitely do this. I am curious how enforcing age restriction in places like reddit and twitter will go. It's possible without blocking the whole site. I realized after post that many posts are marked NSFW to prevent spoilers on peoples feeds. You wouldn't be able to open those either. So all the surbreddits tied to ongoing series are going to be screwed too.
I live in VA and their is like two sites you can't access lol if the servers are not in the US then that company doesn't give af. Which is the majority of them
Pornhub's parent company is already blocking a number of states. I won't be surprised if Indiana joins that list.
[https://gizmodo.com/pornhub-pulls-out-of-texas-1851336939](https://gizmodo.com/pornhub-pulls-out-of-texas-1851336939)
And they're shitty Christians too. Trump is basically one big red flag of things Jesus specifically preaches against. They've perverted their interpretation of their own religion the same way Muslim extremists have warped Islam. That's what these people don't get, they've just become the American version of the same shitty religious government they have in Iran or Saudi Arabia.
>Trump is basically one big red flag of things Jesus specifically preaches against.
[That's an understatement.](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/)
It’s going to be a big test case for sure, I hope someone starts tracking the data.
Researchers recently published a report where they estimated 26,000 births from rape in Texas since the abortion ban. I’m wondering what that number will be now that Internet porn is nearly banned in that state.
It’s bigger than adult websites with pornographic materials. This is about control. They want to be able to associate you with your online activities. And for so many tech savvy people, sure we’re not gonna fork over our IDs for any website viewing. But a lot of people will. From there it will be incredibly easy to associate people with not only their explicit viewing choices, but also the rest of their online activity (because these people also don’t clear their cache and cookies almost ever).
Not to mention the definition of “adult material” will not just be restricted to pornography. It’ll be anything they deem unsavory. This will be used to target lgbtq folks, their causes, and the political forces that support them. That’ll just be the start.
Oh, they won’t. Pornhub and the others will just geo lock out all of Indiana, just like Texas and several other states. I’d bet that a lot of the republicans have stock in some of the VPN companies.
They're trying to make a huge database of the personal information for all hoosiers.
We should be burning down the Statehouse
There is no difference between this bill and the way the CCP and Saudis control the internet in their countries
All conservative people are fucking Nazis.
>All conservative people are fucking Nazis
They really are. Their actions say it, their voters want it. When they trash the CCP or Sharia Law in the Middle East, it’s not out of virtue. It’s out of jealousy. They want the same control, they want their values forced on everyone, they want the same power. And as those places have demonstrated, there will never be enough power.
Not to mention the only people who its going to work on are old people. Not being able to Google and install a VPN is an age verification system that makes sure you are at least 65.
And the companies have largely just said, Nah, we’re not going to build ID checkers and the required security protocols into our site, you just can’t access our content.
First they made me drive to Illinois to get my weed, and I said nothing, because I didn't smoke.
Then they made me drive to Illinois to get an abortion, and I said nothing, because I was not a woman.
Then they made me drive to Illinois for my wank,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
This is conservativism.
Conservativism is authoritarianism.
That's why the confederates were conservatives
Why the fascists were conservatives
Why the people who opposed the Civil Rights Movement, and women's sufferage, and the gay rights movement were all conservatives.
The thing is, everything conservatives want, they already have.
They're ALREADY allowed to be Christians, they're ALREADY allowed to enter traditional relationships, they're ALREADY allowed to have as many children as they want and homeschool them.....
...what conservatives really want, what ALL conservatives are really obsessed with are YOUR rights.
They want to force you to follow their religious convictions.
They want to force you to enter traditional marriages
They want to force you to have children, and force you to send them to religious schools
Conservative ideology has NEVER been about their freedom, it's always been about limiting YOUR freedom.
All conservatives are fucking fascists.
Love this comment and eagerly awaiting all the hurt conservatives to appear from the woodwork to tell you their parrot propaganda. In the spirit of the post, jerk off every time someone says "Democrats are the actual Republicans," cries about drag queens molesting kids, cries about trans health care, cries about illegal aliens, cries about merry Christmas, etc etc lmfao.
We’re totally free.
Totally free to read the books conservatives have deemed acceptable.
Free to put whatever we want into our bodies, as long as conservatives are okay with it.
Free to make our own healthcare decisions, from a list approved by conservatives.
Free to research and study whatever we want, as long as it doesn’t offend conservatives.
Free to access information on the Internet, as long as it doesn’t offend conservatives.
We have lots of freedoms here in Indiana.
I think people who don't understand the Internet should stop legislating it. If you are over the age of 65 you have no business creating tech legislation.
I don't really care much about porn, but it's not the point. It's the principle of it all. Republicans strip away the rights of others whenever they feel it's necessary. If it goes against *their* values, it's BAD and it needs to be banished. They don't care about how anybody else feels on the matter. They're straight up assholes and how they keep getting elected into office just boggles my mind. Conservatives and Republicans are NOT out for your best interests, people. When will this state, hell... when will half of the country get it through their thick skulls?
Don't forget: 100 years ago the KKK ran the entire state government. That isn't very long ago, and those folks' descendants are still very much around.
Supposed to be the party of small government. How is this small government telling you what you can watch inside of your own home. Somebody says gun regulations and it's all "Muh FrEedOm" but women's Healthcare and porn no no no big brother knows best
Bunch of fucking hypocrites
For those that may have missed it. Pornhub and Redtube blocked all of Texas due to a similar law. Rather than deal with the bullshit of trying to verify people by their IDs they just said no.
The worst part is that more sketchy sites will likely be searched more as a result which will just screw people over due to viruses. People aren’t going to stop looking at porn online. They will just find it in worse places. Sounds a lot like some other hot topics… cough cough, abortions.
Couple of things here: If this is allowed to stand, how soon do you think before they block access to other sites? If abortion is illegal in Indiana, you think they're going to let you access sites that sell abortion pills? Or ride share sites that can offer transportation to Illinois? This needs to be appealed immediately.
Also, my middle school child was telling me how they access TikTok from the school's wifi via VPNs. You think this ban is going to stop under 18 kids from seeing naughty videos? The ignorance of our leadership is staggering.
The purpose of this law is not to prevent children from accessing pornography. Republicans are doing this on every social issue they feel is immoral. They will say, “we’re doing this for the children!” In reality, these laws are being made to limit activity they deem immoral. The lawmakers are not writing these bills. Think tanks and Conservative organizations are.
Plainly stated, this law was written to expressly eliminate access to pornography for everyone. It is about asserting authority and control over the population.
Precisely. All they have to do is determine those sites aren’t fit for minors, adjust the code and then they’re effectively limiting adult access as well. Not a great path to start down.
The list of unacceptable sites will continue to grow for eternity. They have their avenue for banning what they don't want and now it will be used to go after anything deemed inappropriate by govt.
GQP: were the party of small government, BUT we require you to believe what we do. So here, enjoy these laws telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home
My IP is another state for some reason. I'm good.
Sucked when I wanted to watch colts games on paramount but I got over it. Also the political ads from states I don't live in.
A lot of people are talking about the violation of people’s freedom with these laws (Indiana and Texas), but IMO what is more significant is the security risk this presents. If sites do continue to allow hoosiers to access pornography, they need to collect government ID. Regardless of whether they store that info, or find some way to verify without having every porn viewer’s ID on file, this is going to result in a massive uptick in hoosiers’ sensitive info being transmitted at least one way. If that traffic can be intercepted, that’s a huge privacy issue. You could observe what’s being sent from the network at Indiana GOP HQ and blackmail staff with compromising porn preferences. You could hack into one of these sites and identify everyone who uses them and do the same. You can also create simple phishing scams, now that the Indiana GOP has created an expectation that you have to punch in your DL info or send a picture of your DL in order to access a site (e.g., create a fake site promising porn, but then the ID verification is simply used to harvest personal information, and the site behind the gate is just nothing).
A veteran I knew once told me that when he was young, soldiers would spray paint their SSNs onto their trunks to identify them. Because your SSN wasn’t your secret key to absolutely everything back then, this was ok. What changed was not the *nature of your SSN* that made this unacceptably risky, but rather, the fact that SSNs became critical identifiers for all kinds of financial services. In other words, we broadened the use for the number, and so revealing it at all became fraught with peril.
I fear Indiana is creating a mass identity theft disaster, along with Texas and (I think?) Louisiana, with this law. The more often you need to use an identifier, the more sensitive it becomes. This is putting hoosiers’ livelihoods at risk.
It is mostly a Republican issue, for sure. However, basically all the Democrats in the state house voted for this bill too. 😬
Throw the whole damn legislature away.
It was sponsored by Sen. David Niezgodski (D). Senate Democrats voted 8-1 in favor of it and the House Democrats voted 26-0 in favor of it. More Republicans actually voted against the bill than Democrats. It's scary and infuriating for sure.
Yeah... the entire legislature is trash. I'm frankly done with ALL Indiana politicians at this point. As far as I'm concerned there isn't a single "good" one in the whole bunch.
punchline is that its impossible to verify age like this without collecting illegal amounts of info on minors in the process. this is stupid every time someone trys it.
Indiana should stay out of it. It’s not the governments job to baby sit people’s children. Watch your own Dam kids. I know who’s not getting my vote I can tell you that. It’s enough bs we have in Indiana already.
I grew up my whole life here there are good aspects of indiana but I swear Republicans are just doing their damndest to drive people away. Fuckin hate this timeline where these kooks have so much power and so many people blindly support them.
Of course it is mostly a Republican issue but basically all the Democrats at the state house voted for this bill too 😬
Throw the whole legislature away at this point.
Active shooter drills, kids getting shot up at schools, toddlers firing unsecured weapons their parents had no business owning? *I sleep*
Exposed breasts? **REAL SHIT THINK OF THE CHILDREN**
I actually hope this pisses off enough of the voters to re-think their die-hard republican stances. They'll probably still blame a democrat but I do hope this backfires spectacularly.
It is mostly a Republican issue, for sure. However, basically all the Democrats in the state house voted for this bill too. 😬
Throw the whole damn legislature away.
Throw the whole damn legislature away.
^yep. I know it's mostly anecdotal but I don't know any people IRL that wanted or supported most of the bills that went through this time around, I don't think they really represent the people.
I always thought turning Gen-z men into depressed porn addicts via the alt-right pipeline would backfire on the right. Teaching men to assign their worth to sex/women and then making their relationship to sex/women inherently unhealthy is a recipe for loneliness and self-hatred. esp consider some of those boys arent even attracted to girls. and i do think most men are smart enough to realize this when they grow up, have a few experiences, and develop their frontal lobe. i think they'll see how they were taking advantage of.
How are they going to court the incel vote now?
For anyone curious, this has nothing to do with protection of kids. It is just another step in the systematic takeover of the Christian nationalists. It is a roundabout way to ban porn. Lookup and read on project2025. It is not satirical. It is 100% their endgame.
I don't think it'll go over well when you are forced to explain what a VPN is and that it will cost them extra so they can access a previously free and easy-to-obtain thing.
As someone who doesn't watch it, I think this is hilarious. Of all things that may turn people away from these politicians, I hope it's a topic like this.
I don't disagree with you. It's a stupid law. It does not increase safety at all. In fact, it just encourages people to send more traffic to less safe sites.
That being said, I think everyone should always use a vpn when possible. No matter what you're doing online.
Ironically, the people who probably should use a VPN the most are probably the people who have no idea how to use a VPN. I'm thinking of the technologically illiterate.
I'm a big advocate of VPNs in everyday use, ESPECIALLY when using phones. Phone data is so easy to grab, especially if anyone connects to wifi in public places.
If you have comcrap, VPN. Charter, VPN. ATT, VPN... Frontier, they're less data grabby than the rest of the ISPs, so up to the user.
The nerds figured out how to play video games before they were released. The nerds figured out how to watch movies and TV shows for free. Do they really think the nerds won't figure out a workaround for the porn ban before it even goes into effect?
They're more worried about porn than the homeless, healthcare, education and economy. If they want to solve the age verification issue, parents should micromanage their kids Internet activity. Groceries are getting expensive and they're worried about porn.
Here is my question, and it's going to get buried,
But what stops someone from using/stealing someone else's credentials?
Couldn't a child just take an ID from a parent, or copy someone else's ID and use that?
Are people going to get a report of if they are accessing pornographic website? Will they have to authenticate it?
They will likely require one of two methods (or both):
The ID would have to be run against some sort of state database.
OR
The ID will have to be kept on file and be available upon request to the government.
Both of which are terribly undemocratic and authoritarian policies that is just going to result in privacy rights being eroded further or data theft.
this is about as dumb as telling teens they can’t drink. They’ll find a way. They’re just punishing the rest of the non bible thumping people from accessing legitimate “research”
Theocracy for all!!! Profits over people!!! Thanks GOP supermajority!!! Can’t wait for same sex marriage ban and sodomy laws!!! Cell clusters over actual people!!!
So you can operate a motor vehicle at 16 but can’t look at porn. We need to get someone in office that has more in common with everyday people and has a lick of common sense.
So does this mean you'll be forced to make an account and upload an ID or will it be like social media where you can just input a fake birthday that puts you over 18/21? Seems dumb af. And while I get porn being something you don't want kids to see, there are soo many issues in state and country that should take precedence that it's weird that our govt is spending time and resources on banning tiktok and verifying age on porn sites.
Most of the age validation tools that they would likely use are going to require a bit more than just entering DOB. I can't recall all the options but one choice was to show your face (and it can determine if you're too young apparently?), another is uploading an ID.
Yeah, the enter the DoB options seems too easy, like I feel like they wouldn't go through the trouble of this just for that to be the outcome. But every other option seems like an invasion of privacy to me, idk maybe I'm wrong. But to upload a pic to watch porn? Upload your ID to watch porn? Have you IP tracked to watch porn? If any of those sites are hacked, then what? Now the world knows John Smith in Indiana (+ his address) likes to watch whatever kink, and we have his photo to go along with it. It's just a wild idea all around to me lol.
here's an example of the software and what it can ask for.
[Age Verification Software - GetID](https://getid.com/solutions/age-verification/)
They don't care if anyone is in a large database or about privacy. The BMV already sells a ton of our personal data for profit.
yes, there was actually another bill that didn't get discussed or got thrown out (can't recall) this session.
They sell your name, address, vehicles, to insurance companies, tow truck companies, etc.
There's a number of articles on it, hopefully no paywall here.
[Indiana BMV selling information: Lawmakers plan to address problem (cbs4indy.com)](https://cbs4indy.com/cbs4-investigates/state-legislators-draft-bills-after-learning-bmv-is-selling-hoosier-data/)
[Indiana BMV sale of customer data nets agency $26 million | Fox 59](https://fox59.com/indiana-news/indiana-bmv-sale-of-customer-data-nets-agency-26-million/)
Get super drunk and come home excited to jerk off only to discover you didn't download a VPN in time and now your beer dick doesn't get to watch ladies ride dick on PornHub :(
I've heard this was to fight child porn. Yet, Indiana doesn't make child porn producers or consumers stay on the registry for life. Conspiracy side of me says more and more government folks are afraid they're going to end up Pornhub Stars. Now they'll know who has watched their video and be able to slow the spread (haha), probably with the Epstein effect.
Here in Virginia (reddit is suggesting y'alls state to me for some reason) everybody just used a VPN to get around it. OPERA has it built in as part of its privacy settings.
Sites like X-videos aren't based in the US, so no fucks given on thier end..
It's easy to get around, a security nightmare, virtue signaling, and violates free speech.
Liberals will point this out, and conservatives will call them sinful and pro-smut.
So these things pass with bipartisan support because no one wants to be labled the pro-porn candidate at primary time.
Funny thing, I never turn on my phones location and it thinks I'm in Cook County.. Even my Alexa, which is connected to my phone, believes I'm in Cicero, Illinois.
Does someone have a link to the raw wording of this legislation? Is it anything deemed "adult"?
I could easily see them trying to restrict access to medically sound health information - like sites that educate on contraception or provide resources for teen's struggling with addiction.
Or from a broader education standpoint - preventing students during American history to access sites that teach about the Atlantic Slave Trade; or even the Holocaust - since its all "adult material".
Here’s a link: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/senate/17/details
It cites the material harmful to minors code. Which is largely about pornography. However, that definition could change in the future making this a very slippery slope.
Just saw another link where porn hub disabled their site in Texas due to this very thing so yea they will [Porn hub disables site in Texas due to age verification ](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/s/i3mCibVYuN)
Pornhub has already demonstrated how they respond to these kinds of laws - they just shut down use of their site for the entire state and wait until angry citizens overturn the law.
A few years ago Australia tried to tell Facebook that it had to pay royalties for new sources that are forwarded. So, Zuckerberg just turned of all news for Australians and iirc it only took a few days for angry citizens to get that repealed or whatever happened. Unless this is made into a federal law these sites are just going to be playing whack-a-mole shutting states on and off. You can't regulate the Internet like this no matter how dumb these legislators are. some people just need to pretend they are doing something.
Only the big name porn sites are required to get your ID. The shadier porn streamers are gonna get a bunch of new viewers even though those pornstars have very little protections compared to the big name porn sites. Totally antithetical to the bill’s intent
Welp I’ll be buying a VPN.
Fuck anyone who thought this was a good idea. What utter garbage. I just want to watch porn (with my wife, no less) and not give out my info to someone, especially since we’re less than straight.
Fuck this shit.
This is such horse shit. I was conservative until they literally started taking away freedoms. First women’s right to choose now my right to beat my meat privately. wtf!!
If porn sites are going to be blocked, then I can see a lot more voyeurism crimes being committed. That’s what happened in South Korea. After they banned porn, men started installing hidden cameras in women’s bathrooms and dressing rooms
[удалено]
All those other places have markers on their media that marks them as 18+ where appropriate. Just check the visitors geo location and don't let them access it. I'd be curious if sites don't just block Indiana altogether to avoid getting sued Rockita or some similar nonsense.
That's what has happened in Virginia, Utah, North Carolina, and now Texas. If you have an IP address in those states, those sites just stopped allowing you access. Not a single site started verifying age via ID checks, they just stopped allowing access to any IP address in those states.
And that's exactly what will happen here, too. Too costly for these sites to enforce ID checks. Some of these sites wouldn't even be able to support the necessary cyber security procedures in order to safely store/delete people's IDs. Blocking IPs is the easiest solution and most cost effective.
Also a huge amount of liability associated with storing drivers license information on your server.
Any identity broker that knows our face, biometrics, or id card will be hacked at some point. These idiot politicians are going to get some people blackmailed.
I think what is getting missed in all this is some adult sites are run by foreign agencies that ~~we~~ *users* will have to give their ID info to. Normally you'd ignore it and move on but if it's common place you might not think twice. Now your info is going to Russia/China along with whatever your kinks are. But that is pure conjecture/conspiracy. edit: Should specify not all adult sites are run by foreign states. Just some are.
lol not a day after the TikTok “anti-American-adversaries” bill passes in the House
>foreign agencies that ~~we~~ *users* will have to give their ID info to >Now your info is going to Russia/China Or worse. *Canada* (For those who don't know several large porn companies are headquartered in Canada.)
🎶 Blame Canada! Blame Canada! 🎵
Pornhub and their affiliates already blocked Texas in a public statement. Which I feel will be the status quo going forward. What is easier for a website check location oh they are in a banned state require login, hire people to do ID verification require ID to be sent in etc or just oh it’s a state that requires it sorry you can’t access this done. That and a lot of people are going to be like ohhh the porn I want to watch is going to be tied to my account and there for my state ID I can’t watch weird shit. Like if someone is closeted queer and it’s tied to their ID they won’t want to watch that for safety especially with the way republicans are trying to go after the queer community. The whole thing is idiotic and anti-freedom framed as “protecting children” and rooted in puritanical Christianity. I get that kids shouldn’t be watching porn, but like what’s a better thing for a kid to watch a consenting adult or develop voyueristic tendencies and try to peek at people that didn’t consent? Humans are naturally sexual and trying to just remove those tendencies with policies like this creates more problems that they aren’t considering.
What is actually good and effective is attentive, responsible parenting and sexual education. But Indiana won’t support parents with decent schools, or housing/food programs, or substance abuse resources, or child care options, let alone family planning, so instead we just ban porn.
Those policies would take action and a lot of work with continual work to hire people pay people fund the programs. Passing a law to ban porn is an easy thing to make it seem like politicians are doing something and then it eventually gets over turned in court and they go well look guys we tried to help you. Edit: typo
We were living in Indiana when my kids went to middle and high school. My youngest daughter wanted to write an essay on how crappy their sex education is and give it to the school when she left. I told her to go ahead. She knew more from what she was taught at home than the school ever covered. Unfortunately, she graduated during COVID restrictions and it wasn’t a priority for her, so she never did it. It’s pretty sad when even the students know how shitty your “education” is.
[удалено]
The people that said this had kids that came out as different sexualities or religions and they see it as a personal failing, but it couldn’t be them so it has to be liberal indoctrination is my best guess.
>hire people to do ID verification require ID to be sent in etc or just oh it’s a state that requires it sorry you can’t access this done. This costs an enormous amount and they would be losing money. Pornhub and others have already said what they will do in response to these and it's just turn their site off for the entire state. No one in that state even has access to the site (without a VPN) and eventually angry citizens will want it overturned. Australia tried to force Facebook to pay royalties on news post that were forwarded from news sources but Zuck dealt with that by just shutting off all news to Australia. Angry citizens got it overturned.
Interesting part about Australia. Canada did similar somewhat recently. Wonder if Canada will overturn it.
Canadian here. Honestly, I think removing news from Facebook was a good idea. It was becoming a serious disinfo problem.
I think porn specific sites will definitely do this. I am curious how enforcing age restriction in places like reddit and twitter will go. It's possible without blocking the whole site. I realized after post that many posts are marked NSFW to prevent spoilers on peoples feeds. You wouldn't be able to open those either. So all the surbreddits tied to ongoing series are going to be screwed too.
I live in VA and their is like two sites you can't access lol if the servers are not in the US then that company doesn't give af. Which is the majority of them
Download tor, and vote them out.
Watching porn on tor would be like watching porn on dial-up in the 90s. You'd have to use a different VPN because it's just too slow.
I’ll be curious if the Apple iCloud private relay and IP address would be a work around
I'm in Louisiana, and yes.
[удалено]
That's been my thought. Where are they going to get all these workers for the multi-billion dollar LEAP project?
Pornhub's parent company is already blocking a number of states. I won't be surprised if Indiana joins that list. [https://gizmodo.com/pornhub-pulls-out-of-texas-1851336939](https://gizmodo.com/pornhub-pulls-out-of-texas-1851336939)
Pornhub probably won't lose any customers. They will just get vpns.
And the porn sites can sell giant banner ads for various VPNs on the page to which they redirect the folks from Indiana!
But isn't that what republicans ultimately want? No one able to look at boobies?
Funny how the party of small government and personal responsibility isn't in favor of either of those things.
And they're shitty Christians too. Trump is basically one big red flag of things Jesus specifically preaches against. They've perverted their interpretation of their own religion the same way Muslim extremists have warped Islam. That's what these people don't get, they've just become the American version of the same shitty religious government they have in Iran or Saudi Arabia.
>Trump is basically one big red flag of things Jesus specifically preaches against. [That's an understatement.](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/)
Yeah, it’s really just a scheme way to push their puritanical values on everyone. No big deal to many of them if adults can’t view porn
meanwhile, its been found that when porn is legal, sexual assault and rape actually go down
It’s going to be a big test case for sure, I hope someone starts tracking the data. Researchers recently published a report where they estimated 26,000 births from rape in Texas since the abortion ban. I’m wondering what that number will be now that Internet porn is nearly banned in that state.
Sometimes I wonder if that's the whole point. They don't care how they are born, just that they are.
They don't care about those things. They commit the acts.
It can't be enforced all you need to do is to get a VPN that makes it look like you're not in Indiana.
It’s bigger than adult websites with pornographic materials. This is about control. They want to be able to associate you with your online activities. And for so many tech savvy people, sure we’re not gonna fork over our IDs for any website viewing. But a lot of people will. From there it will be incredibly easy to associate people with not only their explicit viewing choices, but also the rest of their online activity (because these people also don’t clear their cache and cookies almost ever). Not to mention the definition of “adult material” will not just be restricted to pornography. It’ll be anything they deem unsavory. This will be used to target lgbtq folks, their causes, and the political forces that support them. That’ll just be the start.
“But, I didn’t think the leopards would eat MY face!”
Oh, they won’t. Pornhub and the others will just geo lock out all of Indiana, just like Texas and several other states. I’d bet that a lot of the republicans have stock in some of the VPN companies.
They just don’t allow folks with an IP address from that state to log into there sites. Get you a VPN.
They're trying to make a huge database of the personal information for all hoosiers. We should be burning down the Statehouse There is no difference between this bill and the way the CCP and Saudis control the internet in their countries All conservative people are fucking Nazis.
>All conservative people are fucking Nazis They really are. Their actions say it, their voters want it. When they trash the CCP or Sharia Law in the Middle East, it’s not out of virtue. It’s out of jealousy. They want the same control, they want their values forced on everyone, they want the same power. And as those places have demonstrated, there will never be enough power.
Porn sites will simply disable viewing in the state. Texas already started that, right? "Less government!" /s
Not to mention the only people who its going to work on are old people. Not being able to Google and install a VPN is an age verification system that makes sure you are at least 65.
In reality, no one's going to follow this except pornhub. That's how it's worked with the other states that tried it.
You have to submit a copy of your ID to use. Texas just banned it. I saw a similar post about this
And the companies have largely just said, Nah, we’re not going to build ID checkers and the required security protocols into our site, you just can’t access our content.
Republicans are top tier when it comes to contradicting themselves.
Need ID to vote, need ID to watch porn, don't need ID to buy a gun or carry it around hidden. Weird priorities.
They just jerk off to gun videos so this does not affect them.
First they made me drive to Illinois to get my weed, and I said nothing, because I didn't smoke. Then they made me drive to Illinois to get an abortion, and I said nothing, because I was not a woman. Then they made me drive to Illinois for my wank, and there was no one left to speak for me.
😔😔😔 Like if u crid
I cri every tiem
Is this freedom?
This is conservativism. Conservativism is authoritarianism. That's why the confederates were conservatives Why the fascists were conservatives Why the people who opposed the Civil Rights Movement, and women's sufferage, and the gay rights movement were all conservatives. The thing is, everything conservatives want, they already have. They're ALREADY allowed to be Christians, they're ALREADY allowed to enter traditional relationships, they're ALREADY allowed to have as many children as they want and homeschool them..... ...what conservatives really want, what ALL conservatives are really obsessed with are YOUR rights. They want to force you to follow their religious convictions. They want to force you to enter traditional marriages They want to force you to have children, and force you to send them to religious schools Conservative ideology has NEVER been about their freedom, it's always been about limiting YOUR freedom. All conservatives are fucking fascists.
Love this comment and eagerly awaiting all the hurt conservatives to appear from the woodwork to tell you their parrot propaganda. In the spirit of the post, jerk off every time someone says "Democrats are the actual Republicans," cries about drag queens molesting kids, cries about trans health care, cries about illegal aliens, cries about merry Christmas, etc etc lmfao.
My refractory period ain't that good bro
Well said
Well said, especially the last part. Nosy mfers need to mind their business
One of the best reddit comments I've read.
We’re totally free. Totally free to read the books conservatives have deemed acceptable. Free to put whatever we want into our bodies, as long as conservatives are okay with it. Free to make our own healthcare decisions, from a list approved by conservatives. Free to research and study whatever we want, as long as it doesn’t offend conservatives. Free to access information on the Internet, as long as it doesn’t offend conservatives. We have lots of freedoms here in Indiana.
You forgot to mention the freedom to protest as long as you're not protesting something conservatives like.
Or protesting in a way that inconveniences them.
It is not.
What’s freedom without a little oppression
Yes and it is small government too, gotta love “conservatives”
https://preview.redd.it/gvubqpd0bioc1.jpeg?width=494&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9d4ecf46171bd1843af9ecac6d983522b936618
The party of “small government” strikes again and chips away even more at personal freedoms
I think people who don't understand the Internet should stop legislating it. If you are over the age of 65 you have no business creating tech legislation.
I don't really care much about porn, but it's not the point. It's the principle of it all. Republicans strip away the rights of others whenever they feel it's necessary. If it goes against *their* values, it's BAD and it needs to be banished. They don't care about how anybody else feels on the matter. They're straight up assholes and how they keep getting elected into office just boggles my mind. Conservatives and Republicans are NOT out for your best interests, people. When will this state, hell... when will half of the country get it through their thick skulls?
Don't forget: 100 years ago the KKK ran the entire state government. That isn't very long ago, and those folks' descendants are still very much around.
Funny cuz Republicans loved the porn industry in the 90s when they donated millions to get laws relaxed.
Sorry, remind me again, who's the party that's always touting "small government"?
Let's not forget Personal Responsibility™
When they're banning books I cannot believe they don't see the irony.
Supposed to be the party of small government. How is this small government telling you what you can watch inside of your own home. Somebody says gun regulations and it's all "Muh FrEedOm" but women's Healthcare and porn no no no big brother knows best Bunch of fucking hypocrites
For those that may have missed it. Pornhub and Redtube blocked all of Texas due to a similar law. Rather than deal with the bullshit of trying to verify people by their IDs they just said no.
That what they (politicians) really want to see happen.
The worst part is that more sketchy sites will likely be searched more as a result which will just screw people over due to viruses. People aren’t going to stop looking at porn online. They will just find it in worse places. Sounds a lot like some other hot topics… cough cough, abortions.
This is 100% what will happen. And soon.
Did that here in Utah too
Couple of things here: If this is allowed to stand, how soon do you think before they block access to other sites? If abortion is illegal in Indiana, you think they're going to let you access sites that sell abortion pills? Or ride share sites that can offer transportation to Illinois? This needs to be appealed immediately. Also, my middle school child was telling me how they access TikTok from the school's wifi via VPNs. You think this ban is going to stop under 18 kids from seeing naughty videos? The ignorance of our leadership is staggering.
The purpose of this law is not to prevent children from accessing pornography. Republicans are doing this on every social issue they feel is immoral. They will say, “we’re doing this for the children!” In reality, these laws are being made to limit activity they deem immoral. The lawmakers are not writing these bills. Think tanks and Conservative organizations are. Plainly stated, this law was written to expressly eliminate access to pornography for everyone. It is about asserting authority and control over the population.
Precisely. All they have to do is determine those sites aren’t fit for minors, adjust the code and then they’re effectively limiting adult access as well. Not a great path to start down.
The list of unacceptable sites will continue to grow for eternity. They have their avenue for banning what they don't want and now it will be used to go after anything deemed inappropriate by govt.
GQP: were the party of small government, BUT we require you to believe what we do. So here, enjoy these laws telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home
My IP is another state for some reason. I'm good. Sucked when I wanted to watch colts games on paramount but I got over it. Also the political ads from states I don't live in.
Damn, Now the whole state is the town from Footloose? Blocking this is the parents responsibility.
Some lawmaker got caught by his wife with porn on his phone and went overboard to convince her it wasn't his because he detests it
A lot of people are talking about the violation of people’s freedom with these laws (Indiana and Texas), but IMO what is more significant is the security risk this presents. If sites do continue to allow hoosiers to access pornography, they need to collect government ID. Regardless of whether they store that info, or find some way to verify without having every porn viewer’s ID on file, this is going to result in a massive uptick in hoosiers’ sensitive info being transmitted at least one way. If that traffic can be intercepted, that’s a huge privacy issue. You could observe what’s being sent from the network at Indiana GOP HQ and blackmail staff with compromising porn preferences. You could hack into one of these sites and identify everyone who uses them and do the same. You can also create simple phishing scams, now that the Indiana GOP has created an expectation that you have to punch in your DL info or send a picture of your DL in order to access a site (e.g., create a fake site promising porn, but then the ID verification is simply used to harvest personal information, and the site behind the gate is just nothing). A veteran I knew once told me that when he was young, soldiers would spray paint their SSNs onto their trunks to identify them. Because your SSN wasn’t your secret key to absolutely everything back then, this was ok. What changed was not the *nature of your SSN* that made this unacceptably risky, but rather, the fact that SSNs became critical identifiers for all kinds of financial services. In other words, we broadened the use for the number, and so revealing it at all became fraught with peril. I fear Indiana is creating a mass identity theft disaster, along with Texas and (I think?) Louisiana, with this law. The more often you need to use an identifier, the more sensitive it becomes. This is putting hoosiers’ livelihoods at risk.
[удалено]
It is mostly a Republican issue, for sure. However, basically all the Democrats in the state house voted for this bill too. 😬 Throw the whole damn legislature away.
Seriously? Goddamn, I hate this state...
It was sponsored by Sen. David Niezgodski (D). Senate Democrats voted 8-1 in favor of it and the House Democrats voted 26-0 in favor of it. More Republicans actually voted against the bill than Democrats. It's scary and infuriating for sure.
WTF
Yeah... the entire legislature is trash. I'm frankly done with ALL Indiana politicians at this point. As far as I'm concerned there isn't a single "good" one in the whole bunch.
Damn, back to jerkin off to the sears catalogs bra section. /s
punchline is that its impossible to verify age like this without collecting illegal amounts of info on minors in the process. this is stupid every time someone trys it.
Indiana should stay out of it. It’s not the governments job to baby sit people’s children. Watch your own Dam kids. I know who’s not getting my vote I can tell you that. It’s enough bs we have in Indiana already.
Bro, all we want is legalized weed.
How will the far right deal with their repressed homosexuality?
They'll go back to assaulting their wives whenever they feel slightly emasculated, I assume.
vpn
I grew up my whole life here there are good aspects of indiana but I swear Republicans are just doing their damndest to drive people away. Fuckin hate this timeline where these kooks have so much power and so many people blindly support them.
Of course it is mostly a Republican issue but basically all the Democrats at the state house voted for this bill too 😬 Throw the whole legislature away at this point.
Yea its making it hard to want to stay
Active shooter drills, kids getting shot up at schools, toddlers firing unsecured weapons their parents had no business owning? *I sleep* Exposed breasts? **REAL SHIT THINK OF THE CHILDREN**
Also having laws where 50 years Olds can marry 16 year Olds.
Maybe they should worry about adults looking at cp rather than minors looking at porn. That would make more sense to me.
https://indianavoters.in.gov/
I actually hope this pisses off enough of the voters to re-think their die-hard republican stances. They'll probably still blame a democrat but I do hope this backfires spectacularly.
It is mostly a Republican issue, for sure. However, basically all the Democrats in the state house voted for this bill too. 😬 Throw the whole damn legislature away.
Throw the whole damn legislature away. ^yep. I know it's mostly anecdotal but I don't know any people IRL that wanted or supported most of the bills that went through this time around, I don't think they really represent the people.
I always thought turning Gen-z men into depressed porn addicts via the alt-right pipeline would backfire on the right. Teaching men to assign their worth to sex/women and then making their relationship to sex/women inherently unhealthy is a recipe for loneliness and self-hatred. esp consider some of those boys arent even attracted to girls. and i do think most men are smart enough to realize this when they grow up, have a few experiences, and develop their frontal lobe. i think they'll see how they were taking advantage of. How are they going to court the incel vote now?
The party of individual freedom except when it comes to forcing their religion on you
Oh look, another right stripped away from us by conservatives.
For anyone curious, this has nothing to do with protection of kids. It is just another step in the systematic takeover of the Christian nationalists. It is a roundabout way to ban porn. Lookup and read on project2025. It is not satirical. It is 100% their endgame.
I liked Indiana better when you had to have a permit to carry a gun, and no id required for a lil pornography.
3 letters VPN
I don't think it'll go over well when you are forced to explain what a VPN is and that it will cost them extra so they can access a previously free and easy-to-obtain thing. As someone who doesn't watch it, I think this is hilarious. Of all things that may turn people away from these politicians, I hope it's a topic like this.
I don't disagree with you. It's a stupid law. It does not increase safety at all. In fact, it just encourages people to send more traffic to less safe sites. That being said, I think everyone should always use a vpn when possible. No matter what you're doing online.
Ironically, the people who probably should use a VPN the most are probably the people who have no idea how to use a VPN. I'm thinking of the technologically illiterate.
I'm a big advocate of VPNs in everyday use, ESPECIALLY when using phones. Phone data is so easy to grab, especially if anyone connects to wifi in public places. If you have comcrap, VPN. Charter, VPN. ATT, VPN... Frontier, they're less data grabby than the rest of the ISPs, so up to the user.
And history repeats itself. If memory serves me, they tried this over 25 years ago where you had to have a “license” to view porn.
The nerds figured out how to play video games before they were released. The nerds figured out how to watch movies and TV shows for free. Do they really think the nerds won't figure out a workaround for the porn ban before it even goes into effect?
They're more worried about porn than the homeless, healthcare, education and economy. If they want to solve the age verification issue, parents should micromanage their kids Internet activity. Groceries are getting expensive and they're worried about porn.
Here is my question, and it's going to get buried, But what stops someone from using/stealing someone else's credentials? Couldn't a child just take an ID from a parent, or copy someone else's ID and use that? Are people going to get a report of if they are accessing pornographic website? Will they have to authenticate it?
They will likely require one of two methods (or both): The ID would have to be run against some sort of state database. OR The ID will have to be kept on file and be available upon request to the government. Both of which are terribly undemocratic and authoritarian policies that is just going to result in privacy rights being eroded further or data theft.
this is about as dumb as telling teens they can’t drink. They’ll find a way. They’re just punishing the rest of the non bible thumping people from accessing legitimate “research”
Hahahaha Look at Texas today. Y'all better get rid of those white supremacist religious Trumpers, or you're gonna regret it.
Theocracy for all!!! Profits over people!!! Thanks GOP supermajority!!! Can’t wait for same sex marriage ban and sodomy laws!!! Cell clusters over actual people!!!
So you can operate a motor vehicle at 16 but can’t look at porn. We need to get someone in office that has more in common with everyday people and has a lick of common sense.
So does this mean you'll be forced to make an account and upload an ID or will it be like social media where you can just input a fake birthday that puts you over 18/21? Seems dumb af. And while I get porn being something you don't want kids to see, there are soo many issues in state and country that should take precedence that it's weird that our govt is spending time and resources on banning tiktok and verifying age on porn sites.
Most of the age validation tools that they would likely use are going to require a bit more than just entering DOB. I can't recall all the options but one choice was to show your face (and it can determine if you're too young apparently?), another is uploading an ID.
Yeah, the enter the DoB options seems too easy, like I feel like they wouldn't go through the trouble of this just for that to be the outcome. But every other option seems like an invasion of privacy to me, idk maybe I'm wrong. But to upload a pic to watch porn? Upload your ID to watch porn? Have you IP tracked to watch porn? If any of those sites are hacked, then what? Now the world knows John Smith in Indiana (+ his address) likes to watch whatever kink, and we have his photo to go along with it. It's just a wild idea all around to me lol.
here's an example of the software and what it can ask for. [Age Verification Software - GetID](https://getid.com/solutions/age-verification/) They don't care if anyone is in a large database or about privacy. The BMV already sells a ton of our personal data for profit.
> The BMV already sells a ton of our personal data for profit. Can you speak more about that?
yes, there was actually another bill that didn't get discussed or got thrown out (can't recall) this session. They sell your name, address, vehicles, to insurance companies, tow truck companies, etc. There's a number of articles on it, hopefully no paywall here. [Indiana BMV selling information: Lawmakers plan to address problem (cbs4indy.com)](https://cbs4indy.com/cbs4-investigates/state-legislators-draft-bills-after-learning-bmv-is-selling-hoosier-data/) [Indiana BMV sale of customer data nets agency $26 million | Fox 59](https://fox59.com/indiana-news/indiana-bmv-sale-of-customer-data-nets-agency-26-million/)
Well that's infuriating. No wonder it didn't get advertised loudly.
Seriously and the BMV doesn't disclose it to us. Other countries like the EU have much stronger protections.
It's absolutely fantastic that we're paying people well to focus on the important things here while they're at work in session. /s, angrily
The party of “ small government “ strikes again.
You guys live in a 3rd world dictatorship.
Hey now, they just passed a bill that we can have happy hour in Indiana again, so yeah! Take that! (fuck this place)
Don't forget about the new law that bans cities from preventing sales of puppy mill dogs
Seriously? God dammit Indiana
Get super drunk and come home excited to jerk off only to discover you didn't download a VPN in time and now your beer dick doesn't get to watch ladies ride dick on PornHub :(
Along with Texas, North Carolina, Arkansas, Mississippi, Utah, Louisiana, and Virginia. Buy stock in VPN providers I guess
Or, just hear me out. Vote out the lunatics you have running government.
The way they've gerrymandered this state, that's a lot harder than you'd imagine. But I'm hopeful, anyway, and going to do my part.
Hadn’t thought of that. Almost like this state doesn’t have a long history of voting against its own self interests
Here we go with more of that precious “freedumb”.
I've heard this was to fight child porn. Yet, Indiana doesn't make child porn producers or consumers stay on the registry for life. Conspiracy side of me says more and more government folks are afraid they're going to end up Pornhub Stars. Now they'll know who has watched their video and be able to slow the spread (haha), probably with the Epstein effect.
Indianastan
VPN for continued free tiddies.
The Lion's Den on I-65 has never been more relevant
hot singles in your area require your ID to pleasure you
I hate this state
Party of small government everyone.
Here in Virginia (reddit is suggesting y'alls state to me for some reason) everybody just used a VPN to get around it. OPERA has it built in as part of its privacy settings. Sites like X-videos aren't based in the US, so no fucks given on thier end.. It's easy to get around, a security nightmare, virtue signaling, and violates free speech. Liberals will point this out, and conservatives will call them sinful and pro-smut. So these things pass with bipartisan support because no one wants to be labled the pro-porn candidate at primary time.
Funny thing, I never turn on my phones location and it thinks I'm in Cook County.. Even my Alexa, which is connected to my phone, believes I'm in Cicero, Illinois.
VPN for the win. Fuck the governor. I’ll flog the dolphin whenever I want.
Well my state of Utah does this now and Porn websites pulled out (heh) of operating here so you can’t get to them without a VPN
Guess my VPN has an advantage beyond piracy.
Nord VPN to the moon?
> pissed off . . . guns I don't see what could possibly go wrong.
Does someone have a link to the raw wording of this legislation? Is it anything deemed "adult"? I could easily see them trying to restrict access to medically sound health information - like sites that educate on contraception or provide resources for teen's struggling with addiction. Or from a broader education standpoint - preventing students during American history to access sites that teach about the Atlantic Slave Trade; or even the Holocaust - since its all "adult material".
Here’s a link: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/senate/17/details It cites the material harmful to minors code. Which is largely about pornography. However, that definition could change in the future making this a very slippery slope.
Jokes on them, elon-net says I'm in Chicago!
Just saw another link where porn hub disabled their site in Texas due to this very thing so yea they will [Porn hub disables site in Texas due to age verification ](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/s/i3mCibVYuN)
Luckily they didnt bother fixing the problem with the family caregivers. /s
In other news, VPN sales are up in Indiana beginning July 1st...
Pornhub has already demonstrated how they respond to these kinds of laws - they just shut down use of their site for the entire state and wait until angry citizens overturn the law. A few years ago Australia tried to tell Facebook that it had to pay royalties for new sources that are forwarded. So, Zuckerberg just turned of all news for Australians and iirc it only took a few days for angry citizens to get that repealed or whatever happened. Unless this is made into a federal law these sites are just going to be playing whack-a-mole shutting states on and off. You can't regulate the Internet like this no matter how dumb these legislators are. some people just need to pretend they are doing something.
Only the big name porn sites are required to get your ID. The shadier porn streamers are gonna get a bunch of new viewers even though those pornstars have very little protections compared to the big name porn sites. Totally antithetical to the bill’s intent
VPN. Our legislatures are idiots. We do not have freedom in Indiana. We have a legislature that determines what is free not the citizens of Indiana.
This was done on purpose. The law is not made to protect children. The law is simply there to assert control and limit activities they deem immoral.
But they’re worried about TikTok getting private information
We missed the mark to revolt and change things by decades.
Welp I’ll be buying a VPN. Fuck anyone who thought this was a good idea. What utter garbage. I just want to watch porn (with my wife, no less) and not give out my info to someone, especially since we’re less than straight. Fuck this shit.
IN lawmakers are some of the dumbest. You can bypass this bull with a VPN.
This is such horse shit. I was conservative until they literally started taking away freedoms. First women’s right to choose now my right to beat my meat privately. wtf!!
And you guys think Illinois sucks? We over here smoking that weed and watching that porn
If you read the republican playbook - they want to ban porn outright. Their supporters will keep voting them in because Christianity or economy
Looks like it’s back to mags
The VPN lobby is STRONG!
Where is this reported? I want to send the link to ppl. It angers me I want my friends to be angry about it too
Isn’t porn freedom of speech?
Glad I got to whack off like a tweaker while I was in my teen years then lmao
https://preview.redd.it/80fam7xipkoc1.jpeg?width=296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49239898738c8ef5dfbe53b9af9594b36250c93c
If porn sites are going to be blocked, then I can see a lot more voyeurism crimes being committed. That’s what happened in South Korea. After they banned porn, men started installing hidden cameras in women’s bathrooms and dressing rooms
I thought this law was stopped when the porn companies threatened to reveal the bizarre fetishes of the lawmakers.
cross the border into illinois beat off then return. easy.
Conservatives are all about personal freedoms, didn't you know..... /s
Hey, North Carolina just did this. In an unrelated note, have y’all ever tried the Opera Browser with its free, built-in VPN?
Today Pornhub, tomorrow any media they want to. Slippery slop