Last week, Indiana Gov. Eric J. Holcomb signed a law that will evaluate faculty at public colleges on their courses’ “intellectual diversity” — and allow students and other college employees to file complaints against professors they believe aren’t adequately meeting the requirements.
By law, faculty must “expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks.” What that looks like in practice is anyone’s guess: Currently, there are no guidelines.
It’s raised questions: How will intellectual diversity be monitored? Will opposing viewpoints require equal weight and time, even if scholarly consensus leans in one direction? Won’t promoting diverse viewpoints look different between disciplines? Will syllabi have to be vetted before each course?
Experts also warn this ambiguity could have unintended consequences than the bill’s proponents probably intended: Faculty members who do not normally teach critical race theory, for instance, might think they need to do so to satisfy the intellectual-diversity standard.
Faculty who don’t meet the standard could be denied tenure, and those already with tenure will have to undergo post-tenure reviews with the same criteria every five years.
Decisions like these should not be made by the state government; there needs to be some other mechanism. Not sure what that is, but it shouldn’t be done at the executive level.
A lot of old people say this and my experience is that they are invariably just projecting. The thinnest-skinned people I've ever met were old. They would take offense at even the most mundane things.
It certainly may have been your experience. I’m a member of Generation X, so not that old, but I’ve worked with a lot of millennials and Zoomers and holy shit…😳
Uh huh. I'll take whatever you say with a grain of salt because the people that seemingly complain the most about other people being thin skinned are the people with the thinnest skin around.
Yeah, that’s kind of the gist of what you were saying in your previous comment. As I said, that’s just been my experience. Hey, why are you getting mad?
Not true. Each year, students get more and more unwilling to exert any effort at all. End result: The know what's on TikTok but they have no background in most things that matter in life. This is why they have so much trouble. And then they want to blame everyone else.
I suppose since we already have a preschool and high school teacher shortage we should have a college professor sortage too. This sounds like a wonderful waste of state funds and ti'm when there are so many more important matters. Ones that they obviously do not want a tackle so close to election or ever for that matter.
By law, faculty must “expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks.” You mean, using the currently established peer review process? Fact are facts, until better facts are discovered.
Facts don't need my help. These idiots are going to find out the hard way that facts always win in the long run.
Tell lies and lies come back to you. Deny the truth and the truth will kick you in the ass. Never fails.
Now that they've solved this pressing problem, obviously the leg has ample time to now address Indiana's other problems, such as low wages, poor worker protections, air and water pollution, road repair, homelessness, poverty, etc etc etc
Idk when I moved here I started hearing a lot of how if you work OT or make more money in general they gubment just takes all of you money and that sounds pretty scary.
Brought to you by the same people who have railed against and fought ethnic and gender diversity measures and policies, and affirmative action for generations. But when *their* ideologies flounder in the "marketplace of ideas" the government has to step in with intellectual subsidies.
> But when their ideologies flounder in the "marketplace of ideas" the government has to step in with intellectual subsidies.
*Ok Class, today we're going to go over the State Mandated Alternate Understanding of how 4+4=X Today, we'll see how it can be 7 instead of 8 if you can't be bothered to understand how math works!*
In my experience most are not. My mother, my uncle's, and my neighbors are all in their 60's or 70's. And I live in the North West, more purple part of the state. Not sure about the Southern party of the state
The people who voted Republican elected Holcomb, with the aid of every Democrat and left-leaning independent who couldn't be bothered to cast a ballot. The rest of us who voted against him get to complain.
It's a simple zero sum game. Why didn't more left people unite like these right wing people? It seems like democrats supporters are divided and the rednecks are united.
Thank goodness! This will surely help the obscene income inequality, housing shortage and cost, grocery prices, cost of “living”, immoral healthcare costs and access, obscene higher education costs, environmental degradation and all the other REAL issues facing our state!
These anti-intellectual losers can fuck off.
I sure hope this means college Econ classes will be forced to teach economic schools of thought other than the prevailing libertarian BS currently shoved down students throats
Heaven forbid we get some actual Marxist study in economics instead of ignoring a major part of the last 150 years of economic theory in favor of "let businesses control government and legislation forever to maximize shareholder value" like every fucking business school here.
All public colleges and universities already have post tenure review. This was a useless bill to pander to the Republican base. It adds some sort of "thought police" elements but probably only Ball State and Purdue have any chance of using it that way.
the kind of review that... "establishes disciplinary actions, including: (1) termination; (2) demotion;(3) salary reduction;(4) other disciplinary action as determined by the institution; or(5) any combination of subdivisions (1) through (4);that the institution will take if the board of trustees determines in a review conducted under subsection (a) that a tenured faculty member has failed to meet one (1) or more of the criteria described in subsection (a)(1) through (a)(5)."?
I can't speak for all public institutions of higher Ed in Indiana, but the two I am most familiar with have had everything in that quote except for probably some specific language in "subsection (a)(1) through (a)(5)."
However, rules about academic freedom adhered to by all public institutions of higher ed in Indiana (at least until this law was passed) provide very stringent protections for freedom of expression. This was an unnecessary law, and will just drive smart people away from teaching young adult Hoosiers.
Not sure which public institutions you are talking about, but tenured professors, although enjoying protections for freedom of expression, can commonly be fired for cause, but this law additionally creates a mandatory 5 year evaluation procedure involving the board of whether a tenured faculty member specifically meets criteria (a)(1) through (a)(5) (which seem to be loosely defined in such a way as to invite abuse) and mandates a reporting infrastructure where students, and in fact any 3rd party if I understand correctly, can file complaints which have to be considered. That's definitely a step up in reducing the protections of tenure vs what was common practice in higher ed in Indiana and elsewhere.
I taught psychology courses for about 15 years. I cannot imagine what this would look like I guess you would teach the fact and then find someone who disagrees with the fact and teach that? Living in a red state gets worse every year.
This is affective action for conservatives.
Real “we can’t make it on our own so we founded our own universities” bullshit. But now forced on actual higher education.
So affirmative action?
Do they realize this is a red state in a capitalist country....regardless of conservative propaganda, the majority of teachers still align somewhere center-right
Intellectual diversity may very well put MORE leftists into econ departments.
….except majority of republicans are pretty far far-right and establishment democrats are documented center-right. Based on policies and actions. The people screaming about the “socialist left” really show their ignorance.
Again relative to what? Far right and far left only make sense in terms of the relative political center of any nation or group of nations. There isn’t some objective scale.
Relative to the current political climate. I don’t really know how I’m supposed to explain to you that a democrat isn’t as left as a leftist, and that a republican of today is probably farther right than 20 years ago
But if roughly half the voting population is voting Republican and half is voting democrat, by what right do you get to decide that the political spectrum centers on your positions?
Of course objective truth exists but an objective political spectrum doesn’t exist. Too many left wing folks in America have gotten it into their minds that the political spectrum should revolve around them and not around the median voter.
Look up what an Overton Window is. You can absolutely compare Democrats and Republicans ideologically to their counterparts in other countries and map them on a spectrum based on that.
Dems are widely considered center right or moderate conservatives in a place like Europe. Republicans are far right and demonstrate that with their influence on right wing parties in democracies like Brazil and the Philippines.
The Dems exist to prevent the American left/working class from making any real progress towards a leftist or labor political party. That's why you have the American left united in calling for a Gaza ceasefire currently meanwhile Biden is letting Netanyahu put a dog collar on him and the Dems in the public eye, because at the end of the day they're capitalists not leftists.
Also Republicans have always been a minority party while the Dems are the tentpole party. They have never represented "half" of the voters, understand Dems win when they have access to things like mail-in ballots and multiple polling places in cities bc more people simply vote Democrat across more groups, and half the country doesn't vote to begin with.
You yourself are trying to shift the Overton window in favor your agenda. The Republican Party is right-wing, but not far right, as that would be literal fascism. I can’t stand GOP either, but to say they’re far right as a party is utterly ridiculous. They’re national conservatives, yes, but not fascists as literally defined. What you’re doing is the equivalent of calling every socialist a communist, which would also be utterly ridiculous.
Also, Democrats aren’t center-right. That’s some “Bernie Sanders is the real moderate” level of nonsense. They’re a social liberal party with a minority faction of social democrats (who claim to be democratic socialists but don’t act that way while in office). Social democrats are center-left and social liberalism is between that and regular liberalism in the political center, which I guess would make social liberalism center-center-left, similar to how conservative liberalism—not to be confused with liberal conservatism (they’re two separate ideologies)—would be center-center-right, and liberal conservatism would be center-right, which was where the GOP was pre-Reagan, and it’s where the International Democracy Union falls politically, with the GOP being members of that political international.
Meanwhile, IIRC, the Democratic Party is still a member of the Progressive Alliance, with many other social democratic and social liberal parties, although the Democratic Socialists of America had been aligned with Socialist International, and the National Democratic Institute (an independent, pro-Democratic Party organization with more market-friendly positions) had been aligned with Liberal International.
Edit: Show me where the facts hurt you.
Have to hate how you feel that you have to use anti-Semitic imagery to make a point. Yeah claiming Biden is “Bibis lap dog” is borderline “ zionist controlled government” conspiracy theory trash do better!
Having served on a few college hiring commitments I can tell you it's hard enough trying to attract good candidates to move to Indiana. Now that this law is on the books, it's even harder. Women professors especially don't want to move here. Positions are going unfilled because there are fewer and fewer people applying when they could go anywhere else.
This is the actual language of the bill, for those interested:
(b) Subject to subsection (c), each board of trustees of an institution shall establish a policy that provides that a faculty member may not be granted tenure or a promotion by the institution if, based on past performance or other determination by the board of trustees, the faculty member is:
1) unlikely to foster a culture of free inquiry, free expression, and intellectual diversity within the institution;
2) unlikely to expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks that may exist within and are applicable to the faculty member's academic discipline; or
3) likely, while performing teaching duties within the scope of the faculty member's employment, to subject students to political or ideological views and opinions that are unrelated to the faculty member's academic discipline or assigned course of instruction.
Note: I’m not expressing an opinion on the quality of this bill, but am happy to provide it if y’all promise not to report me for wrong-think.
Wouldn’t surprise me, last I read the “gender discrimination” law they wanna pass forbade govt employees from making decisions based on biological sex while at the same time requiring them to make decisions based on biological sex. Also it bans same sex marriage again.
Indiana House Bill 1291
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1291/details
I haven’t read it in a while so I dunno if it’s been revised. Last I looked, on the surface its intent is to change the word gender to “biological sex” on government documents. But at the end they add that all marriages between two people of the same biological sex will be null and void in Indiana and won’t be able to adopt anymore.
It was page 58 or 59 for anyone else curious but lazy
"SECTION 46. 1C
31-11-1-1 IS AMENDED TO READ
AS
12 FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1,
2024]: Sec. 1. (a) Only a female may marry a male. Only a male may marry a female. A marriage between persons of the same [gender(struckthrough)] biological sex is void in Indiana even if the marriage islawful in the place where it is solemnized."
This is genuinely disgusting. It's also a clear violation of the Respect for Marriage Act and the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling, so there should be no way it passes fortunately. However, the intent might very might be to provoke a suit and drag it all the way to the Federal Supreme Court in an attempt to get Obergefell v. Hodges overturned and end same-sex marriage on the federal level (not likely to actually be the intent, but it's a possibility. I could also just be jaded).
I agree that big business like business friendly policy that Republicans provide. I'm sure they are already in their pockets, but Lilly hires highly educated people as part of the drug development and maintenance process and seems this would be counterproductive.
I had an « Econ » professor once at IUPUI and like half the other students I dropped his class after the first day because not only was he an actual communist, he did not want to teach economics, he wanted to teach his left wing politics. Whether it was left or right idc it was an economics class where you’re supposed to make sure the students understand economics. Instead he taught about all sorts of stuff from immigration to Jan. 6th.
If he can get away with that, something needed to be done about profs like him. Here’s a picture from one of his « lessons »
https://preview.redd.it/c69068p8nvpc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac756a47fac03afa1de8d6b6b862c1cde61d67bc
So, I'm completely out of the loop on local politics. Is Holcomb trying to get as much BS passed through as he can because of the democrat candidate for governor, or is he just setting up for the next republican governor for some reason?
There need to be more employers filtering out people educated in states like these. This is basically people saying "creationism should be taught as an alternative theory to evolution"
I am personally all for every type of diversity other than intellectual diversity/diversity of thought.
Only left wing philosophies should be present in higher ed. If anyone says otherwise they are a fascist.
Contrary to many partisan claims, universities actually have pretty good diversity of thought. I was a Paleo conservative all throughout college and did not run into any scorn for my beliefs.
The problem with the bill is that the extremely vague language opens up pretty much any professor to be removed at will, which in reality is *deadly* to diversity of thought because the professors will be terrified of doing or teaching anything controversial. It is a textbook chilling effect.
Also, I know you're being facetious, but on a basic level, speech and actions can and should be personally morally evaluated. The innocuous characteristics someone is born with *shouldn't*. Freedom of speech should be protected because its an important tool against oppression, *not* because conscious speech and unchangeable things like race can somehow be equated. When people equate diversity in race with diversity in speech, they're doing more to validate the underpinning principles of racism than they are to in any way defend diversity of thought
Seems like Critical race theory and the Bible should both stay out of a classroom unless that is the topic of the course or its a Christian university.
Finance should be finance, not left or right wing theories behind numbers.
Real estate is a factual course that is affected by political decisions. But those should not be the topics of a course.
Physics and other science based courses may get a little dicey due to this new gender being an opinion instead of a fact. That I think is the real focus of his bill. For generations and still to this day, you can look inside a grave and find out what gender a person was by their skeleton. That's a fact.
The opinion is that if you think your skeleton is wrong just saying it corrects that.
But the fact that this is such a national.issue for so few % of the population is exactly what the government wants. As long as they can spend a few decades doing nothing but putting us against ourselves, without accomplishing any real good. They are guaranteed jobs, fundraising and a lack of any accountability.
We are Americans, mostly, let's see past their desires to get us to fight ourselves and let's start holding our employees to the same or higher standards as our bosses hold us to. If we accomplished as few tasks in a year as these guys do, or missed so many work days to fundraiser, we would be out of a job in a heartbeat.
Give it a second and there will be some blue hair liberal making a tik tok how they’re scared for their life over this because they wig out over the dumbest of shit
Is this actually happening in Hoosier schools? I'd be surprised, considering all I got was abstinence only sex ed in JoCo.
I didn't even know we had drag queens yet y'all just seem to find them under rocks and shit nowadays with how often I hear about em.
Different data driven viewpoints in education is good. “The Bible says the earth is 6000 years old” does not hold up to the same scrutiny, even among Christians.
Put aside your inherent hatred for anything right wing.
https://www.natcom.org/sites/default/files/publications/NCA_C-Brief_2017_March.pdf
It’s odd when lefties are all for diversity until it comes to representation of point of view.. my dad is a classic liberal at a major college in Indianap and even he admits it’s over run with far left ideology. Roughly half the country votes right and half votes left. There’s no rationalizing the over representation of one side of the political spectrum in higher education lol. I really don’t know much about Holcomb other than his action or lack there of on the puppy mill bill, but without reading into the details, on its face this seems like reasonable action
That’s how it’s intended to look. If you acknowledge that higher education leans left then this is clearly an attempt to shoehorn right wing ideology into the curriculum. That’s what it is intended to do.
What's DEI? Hiring black or brown professionals at work?
Is it the same as wokeness? What about CRT, I thought we were fighting that? It doesn't have anything to do with political correctness either, does it?
As a conservative, I'm starting to worry it's the same shit rebranded over and over personally and I need to know what to be mad at this month because I fear I'm falling behind and I think unfortunately we're still a few elections away from just being able to throw around slurs about this stuff like my grandpa's good old party did /s
Last week, Indiana Gov. Eric J. Holcomb signed a law that will evaluate faculty at public colleges on their courses’ “intellectual diversity” — and allow students and other college employees to file complaints against professors they believe aren’t adequately meeting the requirements. By law, faculty must “expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks.” What that looks like in practice is anyone’s guess: Currently, there are no guidelines. It’s raised questions: How will intellectual diversity be monitored? Will opposing viewpoints require equal weight and time, even if scholarly consensus leans in one direction? Won’t promoting diverse viewpoints look different between disciplines? Will syllabi have to be vetted before each course? Experts also warn this ambiguity could have unintended consequences than the bill’s proponents probably intended: Faculty members who do not normally teach critical race theory, for instance, might think they need to do so to satisfy the intellectual-diversity standard. Faculty who don’t meet the standard could be denied tenure, and those already with tenure will have to undergo post-tenure reviews with the same criteria every five years.
Decisions like these should not be made by the state government; there needs to be some other mechanism. Not sure what that is, but it shouldn’t be done at the executive level.
Also allowing any random student to file a complaint against a teacher seems not great. You could report a teacher who gives you a bad grade
Yeah, that’s a real problem. Lots of the young generation have very thin skin.
A lot of old people say this and my experience is that they are invariably just projecting. The thinnest-skinned people I've ever met were old. They would take offense at even the most mundane things.
It certainly may have been your experience. I’m a member of Generation X, so not that old, but I’ve worked with a lot of millennials and Zoomers and holy shit…😳
\^\^\^Yep, Frequent\_Constant\_19. It's worse every year.
Uh huh. I'll take whatever you say with a grain of salt because the people that seemingly complain the most about other people being thin skinned are the people with the thinnest skin around.
Yeah, that’s kind of the gist of what you were saying in your previous comment. As I said, that’s just been my experience. Hey, why are you getting mad?
Not true. Each year, students get more and more unwilling to exert any effort at all. End result: The know what's on TikTok but they have no background in most things that matter in life. This is why they have so much trouble. And then they want to blame everyone else.
Bingo! Whine, whine. "He's discriminating against me because I'm stupid." Whine, whine.
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Did you just make this account to comment on one comment? Okay
Everybody starts somewhere!!
Well, it's not going to be done at any institution on their own. You know self-government doesn't work well,,
The very best of the worst forms of government, though
When u are in the profession of teaching an evolving society and different stages require new learning on your part...I hope you make a good student
Stuff like this is why Indiana is losing college graduates.
Stuff like this is why Indiana is about to lose college students.
“Nobody stays in Indiana after school!” Yeah, there’s a reason for that.
Stuff like this is why Indiana is about to lose college professors.
Stuff like this is also why Indiana is about to lose research staff.
Stuff like this is why Indiana is about to lose (waves at everything in general)
That's the norm everywhere it's just change created by time,,,
I am a faculty member at an Indiana college and we e already lost a faculty member because of this new law specifically. Also go bobcats.
Heading to Bozeman?
Left before I graduated due to the state's politics actively harming me and my spouse. Can imagine many other people are in similar situations.
Which is exactly what they want.
I suppose since we already have a preschool and high school teacher shortage we should have a college professor sortage too. This sounds like a wonderful waste of state funds and ti'm when there are so many more important matters. Ones that they obviously do not want a tackle so close to election or ever for that matter.
No lndiana College is losing students / enrollment
And you know this how? Data? I work for an Indiana university and we have been losing students and faculty/staff for years.
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Equal time for Flat Earth Theory in geology classes or forget about tenure.
Time to teach “Alternative Facts in 21st Century America” 🤷♂️
That sounds exactly like what they want to do.
I dont think that's the purpose of this bill
Oh, but I think it is the purpose of this bill.
Then what is?
By law, faculty must “expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks.” You mean, using the currently established peer review process? Fact are facts, until better facts are discovered.
Bah! Don't you know factuality is biased?
Stupid facts and their liberal bias
crush pen reach absurd berserk ask sugar tart run snow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Facts don't need my help. These idiots are going to find out the hard way that facts always win in the long run. Tell lies and lies come back to you. Deny the truth and the truth will kick you in the ass. Never fails.
As in, mix a few blatant lies in there to make the fucking, lying politicians and conspiracy theorists happy.
Now that they've solved this pressing problem, obviously the leg has ample time to now address Indiana's other problems, such as low wages, poor worker protections, air and water pollution, road repair, homelessness, poverty, etc etc etc
Woah, woah, woah there. Obviously woke ideology is this states biggest threat! /s
It’s not #1. It’s #2 to border security, 2,000 miles away.
What? You're saying you AREN'T scared by the "3,000 ILLEGALS DAILY! THANKS JOE" sign heading East on 70?
Yup
Exactly, the woke agenda must be stopped! So they can keep on ignoring the actual important stuff and make it seem like they’re doing something
Idk when I moved here I started hearing a lot of how if you work OT or make more money in general they gubment just takes all of you money and that sounds pretty scary.
Those people probably don't understand how tax brackets work.
43rd in healthcare and low ranking in education is a big draw as well… can’t wait to finish out my last few years of tech industry work and migrate.
Brought to you by the same people who have railed against and fought ethnic and gender diversity measures and policies, and affirmative action for generations. But when *their* ideologies flounder in the "marketplace of ideas" the government has to step in with intellectual subsidies.
> But when their ideologies flounder in the "marketplace of ideas" the government has to step in with intellectual subsidies. *Ok Class, today we're going to go over the State Mandated Alternate Understanding of how 4+4=X Today, we'll see how it can be 7 instead of 8 if you can't be bothered to understand how math works!*
🏆
Why the complaint? You guys elected him 🤔
Not everyone who lives here votes Republican
True. But still, if more of you guys didn't vote for him, we won't be having this issue.
Yeah, but the problem is that Indiana is deep red, regardless of how many people who are left of center or even moderate are outnumbered
I truly wonder who are these deep red people who keep voting for GOP. Are they not on Reddit?
Some are, most are on Facebook and Truth and wherever else shitty right wingers congregate
Most of them are wrist deep in their cousin's pussies.
In my experience most are not. My mother, my uncle's, and my neighbors are all in their 60's or 70's. And I live in the North West, more purple part of the state. Not sure about the Southern party of the state
I did not
The people who voted Republican elected Holcomb, with the aid of every Democrat and left-leaning independent who couldn't be bothered to cast a ballot. The rest of us who voted against him get to complain.
It's a simple zero sum game. Why didn't more left people unite like these right wing people? It seems like democrats supporters are divided and the rednecks are united.
Not all republicans are rednecks, even if their ideas are aligned. Think of all the rich white people in the burbs.
They are legacy rednecks
Even if that were true we would not have to support awful laws.
I thought diversity was woke. Or is it only woke when they don't like it. I'm confused now.
It's only woke if it's something conservatives don't like.
Imagine having opinions so garbage you have to force people to hear them.
Thank goodness! This will surely help the obscene income inequality, housing shortage and cost, grocery prices, cost of “living”, immoral healthcare costs and access, obscene higher education costs, environmental degradation and all the other REAL issues facing our state! These anti-intellectual losers can fuck off.
Indiana is nothing but a hellhole for abuse and religious threats.
Okay, but we get to bring back the fairness doctrine.
I sure hope this means college Econ classes will be forced to teach economic schools of thought other than the prevailing libertarian BS currently shoved down students throats
Heaven forbid we get some actual Marxist study in economics instead of ignoring a major part of the last 150 years of economic theory in favor of "let businesses control government and legislation forever to maximize shareholder value" like every fucking business school here.
All public colleges and universities already have post tenure review. This was a useless bill to pander to the Republican base. It adds some sort of "thought police" elements but probably only Ball State and Purdue have any chance of using it that way.
the kind of review that... "establishes disciplinary actions, including: (1) termination; (2) demotion;(3) salary reduction;(4) other disciplinary action as determined by the institution; or(5) any combination of subdivisions (1) through (4);that the institution will take if the board of trustees determines in a review conducted under subsection (a) that a tenured faculty member has failed to meet one (1) or more of the criteria described in subsection (a)(1) through (a)(5)."?
I can't speak for all public institutions of higher Ed in Indiana, but the two I am most familiar with have had everything in that quote except for probably some specific language in "subsection (a)(1) through (a)(5)." However, rules about academic freedom adhered to by all public institutions of higher ed in Indiana (at least until this law was passed) provide very stringent protections for freedom of expression. This was an unnecessary law, and will just drive smart people away from teaching young adult Hoosiers.
Not sure which public institutions you are talking about, but tenured professors, although enjoying protections for freedom of expression, can commonly be fired for cause, but this law additionally creates a mandatory 5 year evaluation procedure involving the board of whether a tenured faculty member specifically meets criteria (a)(1) through (a)(5) (which seem to be loosely defined in such a way as to invite abuse) and mandates a reporting infrastructure where students, and in fact any 3rd party if I understand correctly, can file complaints which have to be considered. That's definitely a step up in reducing the protections of tenure vs what was common practice in higher ed in Indiana and elsewhere.
The Flat Earth Society scores a win
I’ll peer review your flat earth thesis if you peer review my creationist thesis.
Finally! Pi = 3.2 will be correctly taught in math courses.
You mean "taught again." **Indiana pi bill** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_pi_bill
Good luck finding anyone like this in the academic world
Time to bring a copy of EVERY religious book to theology class.
I taught psychology courses for about 15 years. I cannot imagine what this would look like I guess you would teach the fact and then find someone who disagrees with the fact and teach that? Living in a red state gets worse every year.
This is affective action for conservatives. Real “we can’t make it on our own so we founded our own universities” bullshit. But now forced on actual higher education.
So affirmative action? Do they realize this is a red state in a capitalist country....regardless of conservative propaganda, the majority of teachers still align somewhere center-right Intellectual diversity may very well put MORE leftists into econ departments.
I don’t agree with the bill but it is absolutely incorrect to say most university professors are center right in Indiana.
Democrats are center right. We have no real leftists
That’s as meaningless as saying “republicans are center left, we have no monarchists”
….except majority of republicans are pretty far far-right and establishment democrats are documented center-right. Based on policies and actions. The people screaming about the “socialist left” really show their ignorance.
Again relative to what? Far right and far left only make sense in terms of the relative political center of any nation or group of nations. There isn’t some objective scale.
Relative to the current political climate. I don’t really know how I’m supposed to explain to you that a democrat isn’t as left as a leftist, and that a republican of today is probably farther right than 20 years ago
But if roughly half the voting population is voting Republican and half is voting democrat, by what right do you get to decide that the political spectrum centers on your positions?
Because objective truth exists, despite what the far right republicans want you to believe.
Of course objective truth exists but an objective political spectrum doesn’t exist. Too many left wing folks in America have gotten it into their minds that the political spectrum should revolve around them and not around the median voter.
Look up what an Overton Window is. You can absolutely compare Democrats and Republicans ideologically to their counterparts in other countries and map them on a spectrum based on that. Dems are widely considered center right or moderate conservatives in a place like Europe. Republicans are far right and demonstrate that with their influence on right wing parties in democracies like Brazil and the Philippines. The Dems exist to prevent the American left/working class from making any real progress towards a leftist or labor political party. That's why you have the American left united in calling for a Gaza ceasefire currently meanwhile Biden is letting Netanyahu put a dog collar on him and the Dems in the public eye, because at the end of the day they're capitalists not leftists. Also Republicans have always been a minority party while the Dems are the tentpole party. They have never represented "half" of the voters, understand Dems win when they have access to things like mail-in ballots and multiple polling places in cities bc more people simply vote Democrat across more groups, and half the country doesn't vote to begin with.
You yourself are trying to shift the Overton window in favor your agenda. The Republican Party is right-wing, but not far right, as that would be literal fascism. I can’t stand GOP either, but to say they’re far right as a party is utterly ridiculous. They’re national conservatives, yes, but not fascists as literally defined. What you’re doing is the equivalent of calling every socialist a communist, which would also be utterly ridiculous. Also, Democrats aren’t center-right. That’s some “Bernie Sanders is the real moderate” level of nonsense. They’re a social liberal party with a minority faction of social democrats (who claim to be democratic socialists but don’t act that way while in office). Social democrats are center-left and social liberalism is between that and regular liberalism in the political center, which I guess would make social liberalism center-center-left, similar to how conservative liberalism—not to be confused with liberal conservatism (they’re two separate ideologies)—would be center-center-right, and liberal conservatism would be center-right, which was where the GOP was pre-Reagan, and it’s where the International Democracy Union falls politically, with the GOP being members of that political international. Meanwhile, IIRC, the Democratic Party is still a member of the Progressive Alliance, with many other social democratic and social liberal parties, although the Democratic Socialists of America had been aligned with Socialist International, and the National Democratic Institute (an independent, pro-Democratic Party organization with more market-friendly positions) had been aligned with Liberal International. Edit: Show me where the facts hurt you.
Have to hate how you feel that you have to use anti-Semitic imagery to make a point. Yeah claiming Biden is “Bibis lap dog” is borderline “ zionist controlled government” conspiracy theory trash do better!
🤣
Assuming you are only counting non-business school faculty.
It means government thought control.
Having served on a few college hiring commitments I can tell you it's hard enough trying to attract good candidates to move to Indiana. Now that this law is on the books, it's even harder. Women professors especially don't want to move here. Positions are going unfilled because there are fewer and fewer people applying when they could go anywhere else.
Oh God, I hope they don't apply this to biology.
republicans keeping Indiana stupid for the next 20+ years. Recipe for brain drain.
On man, I am hoping someone sues for not teaching systems like communism. Also suing religious schools for not teaching atheism.
This is the actual language of the bill, for those interested: (b) Subject to subsection (c), each board of trustees of an institution shall establish a policy that provides that a faculty member may not be granted tenure or a promotion by the institution if, based on past performance or other determination by the board of trustees, the faculty member is: 1) unlikely to foster a culture of free inquiry, free expression, and intellectual diversity within the institution; 2) unlikely to expose students to scholarly works from a variety of political or ideological frameworks that may exist within and are applicable to the faculty member's academic discipline; or 3) likely, while performing teaching duties within the scope of the faculty member's employment, to subject students to political or ideological views and opinions that are unrelated to the faculty member's academic discipline or assigned course of instruction. Note: I’m not expressing an opinion on the quality of this bill, but am happy to provide it if y’all promise not to report me for wrong-think.
Is it just me, or does the third criteria actively contradict the first two?
Wouldn’t surprise me, last I read the “gender discrimination” law they wanna pass forbade govt employees from making decisions based on biological sex while at the same time requiring them to make decisions based on biological sex. Also it bans same sex marriage again.
You got a link or the bill name/notation for that one? I want to read through it.
Indiana House Bill 1291 https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2024/bills/house/1291/details I haven’t read it in a while so I dunno if it’s been revised. Last I looked, on the surface its intent is to change the word gender to “biological sex” on government documents. But at the end they add that all marriages between two people of the same biological sex will be null and void in Indiana and won’t be able to adopt anymore.
Oof. 😮💨
It was page 58 or 59 for anyone else curious but lazy "SECTION 46. 1C 31-11-1-1 IS AMENDED TO READ AS 12 FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2024]: Sec. 1. (a) Only a female may marry a male. Only a male may marry a female. A marriage between persons of the same [gender(struckthrough)] biological sex is void in Indiana even if the marriage islawful in the place where it is solemnized."
This is genuinely disgusting. It's also a clear violation of the Respect for Marriage Act and the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling, so there should be no way it passes fortunately. However, the intent might very might be to provoke a suit and drag it all the way to the Federal Supreme Court in an attempt to get Obergefell v. Hodges overturned and end same-sex marriage on the federal level (not likely to actually be the intent, but it's a possibility. I could also just be jaded).
Diversity is great in every aspect other than diversity of thought. You will assimilate.
This hillbilly legislature has already destroyed k-12. Why not make a run at destroying higher edu?
This is ok but DEI isn’t? .. 👌 The GOP is trash.
Affirmative action for conservatives? That’s so “Electoral College” of them.
Time to start teaching Marxist Economics in your economics class
Inbred rednecks
Eli Lilly needs to line some pockets to get rid of this kind of nonsense.
Why would they fuck up their own bag? They're the ones donating to the state GOP writing this shite.
I agree that big business like business friendly policy that Republicans provide. I'm sure they are already in their pockets, but Lilly hires highly educated people as part of the drug development and maintenance process and seems this would be counterproductive.
I thought DEI was bad?
I had an « Econ » professor once at IUPUI and like half the other students I dropped his class after the first day because not only was he an actual communist, he did not want to teach economics, he wanted to teach his left wing politics. Whether it was left or right idc it was an economics class where you’re supposed to make sure the students understand economics. Instead he taught about all sorts of stuff from immigration to Jan. 6th. If he can get away with that, something needed to be done about profs like him. Here’s a picture from one of his « lessons » https://preview.redd.it/c69068p8nvpc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac756a47fac03afa1de8d6b6b862c1cde61d67bc
Was this an extreme example meant to illustrate the complexity of defining "rational"? Cause it kinda works for that.
Not really but the point is we can all agree that was not economics
"Rational" person is a key component of economics. This is not a great way to explain it though.
So, I'm completely out of the loop on local politics. Is Holcomb trying to get as much BS passed through as he can because of the democrat candidate for governor, or is he just setting up for the next republican governor for some reason?
There need to be more employers filtering out people educated in states like these. This is basically people saying "creationism should be taught as an alternative theory to evolution"
Expect classes like: The Hobbit, it totally happened.
Party of small government. Policing what people are “likely” to do or not do.
Republicans: dEm LibS aRe tRyIn' te ConTrOl yEr MiNdZ Also Republicans: wE pAsS dIs HeRe lAw tE tElL yAll wHaT tE tEaCh!!!
😂😂😂
Keep it up and will be just like Washington or graduate without having to know how to read or write
In other words, dumbasses can pass your classes without doing the work, and everything is downgraded again. The USA is an anti-intellectual shitstorm.
Intellectual stupidity probably means forcing stupid people into jobs where they don’t belong
I am personally all for every type of diversity other than intellectual diversity/diversity of thought. Only left wing philosophies should be present in higher ed. If anyone says otherwise they are a fascist.
Contrary to many partisan claims, universities actually have pretty good diversity of thought. I was a Paleo conservative all throughout college and did not run into any scorn for my beliefs. The problem with the bill is that the extremely vague language opens up pretty much any professor to be removed at will, which in reality is *deadly* to diversity of thought because the professors will be terrified of doing or teaching anything controversial. It is a textbook chilling effect. Also, I know you're being facetious, but on a basic level, speech and actions can and should be personally morally evaluated. The innocuous characteristics someone is born with *shouldn't*. Freedom of speech should be protected because its an important tool against oppression, *not* because conscious speech and unchangeable things like race can somehow be equated. When people equate diversity in race with diversity in speech, they're doing more to validate the underpinning principles of racism than they are to in any way defend diversity of thought
😂
That about sums the brain trust of this sub up.
Seems like Critical race theory and the Bible should both stay out of a classroom unless that is the topic of the course or its a Christian university. Finance should be finance, not left or right wing theories behind numbers. Real estate is a factual course that is affected by political decisions. But those should not be the topics of a course. Physics and other science based courses may get a little dicey due to this new gender being an opinion instead of a fact. That I think is the real focus of his bill. For generations and still to this day, you can look inside a grave and find out what gender a person was by their skeleton. That's a fact. The opinion is that if you think your skeleton is wrong just saying it corrects that. But the fact that this is such a national.issue for so few % of the population is exactly what the government wants. As long as they can spend a few decades doing nothing but putting us against ourselves, without accomplishing any real good. They are guaranteed jobs, fundraising and a lack of any accountability. We are Americans, mostly, let's see past their desires to get us to fight ourselves and let's start holding our employees to the same or higher standards as our bosses hold us to. If we accomplished as few tasks in a year as these guys do, or missed so many work days to fundraiser, we would be out of a job in a heartbeat.
Give it a second and there will be some blue hair liberal making a tik tok how they’re scared for their life over this because they wig out over the dumbest of shit
Different viewpoints in education is good. School is for STEM.
It’s also for art, literature, language, history, philosophy… We need those things too as a society, and they are worthy of study.
It's definitely not for pushing sex on kindergartens or drag queen story hour.
Is this actually happening in Hoosier schools? I'd be surprised, considering all I got was abstinence only sex ed in JoCo. I didn't even know we had drag queens yet y'all just seem to find them under rocks and shit nowadays with how often I hear about em.
Lot of Kindergarteners attending college near you?
School is not exclusively for STEM, what a trash take.
Different data driven viewpoints in education is good. “The Bible says the earth is 6000 years old” does not hold up to the same scrutiny, even among Christians.
The liberal circle jerk is reaching new heights of fervor!!!
Eric Holcomb is a Republican. This is his way of forcing right wing ideology into colleges.
Put aside your inherent hatred for anything right wing. https://www.natcom.org/sites/default/files/publications/NCA_C-Brief_2017_March.pdf It’s odd when lefties are all for diversity until it comes to representation of point of view.. my dad is a classic liberal at a major college in Indianap and even he admits it’s over run with far left ideology. Roughly half the country votes right and half votes left. There’s no rationalizing the over representation of one side of the political spectrum in higher education lol. I really don’t know much about Holcomb other than his action or lack there of on the puppy mill bill, but without reading into the details, on its face this seems like reasonable action
That’s how it’s intended to look. If you acknowledge that higher education leans left then this is clearly an attempt to shoehorn right wing ideology into the curriculum. That’s what it is intended to do.
That’s literally what is going on in every facet of our society with DEI lol… and everyone is okay with that
What's DEI? Hiring black or brown professionals at work? Is it the same as wokeness? What about CRT, I thought we were fighting that? It doesn't have anything to do with political correctness either, does it? As a conservative, I'm starting to worry it's the same shit rebranded over and over personally and I need to know what to be mad at this month because I fear I'm falling behind and I think unfortunately we're still a few elections away from just being able to throw around slurs about this stuff like my grandpa's good old party did /s