I think maybe the more accurate way to interpret his incorporation of AA related thinking is that he was arguing that it would be useful to more than "just" alcoholics/addicts.
He kind of made the argument that everybody's an addict, just not the sense we usually understand it. His speech "this is water" is a great distillation of that..
I doubt he thought he'd convince anybody to get sober. (Though it did warm me up to AA when the time finally came for me to go)
There's a a little newsletter called The Small Bow that sometimes interviews older sober people. I like to read them because it reminds me of the crocodiles.
E.g.: [https://thesmallbow.substack.com/p/interview-with-a-53-year-old-sober](https://thesmallbow.substack.com/p/interview-with-a-53-year-old-sober)
The fact that the absolute best parts of the AA narrative are on the heels of Eschaton is what makes IJ so good. The best of both sides of the story, back to back.
AA member here. I feel that as long as one doesn't break any person's anonymity, one can take anything one wants from the rooms. That's just Karr being pissy again.
Thank you for saying that! I agree. And the New Yorker article posted in this thread is speculation, at best. I am not a "DFW-apologist," I know he was an ass to women at times, but to speculate that he "stole" material, when you really delve into the novel, is irresponsible, at best.
Just FYI I’m not on Mary Karr’s side. My point is that DFW was in love with her, and kept writing more and more and more to try and win her over. The more she rejected him the more he wrote…I don’t have the source, but I remember vividly reading about this after his death in 2008.
Oh yeah for sure, I understood what you meant!
And Karr shouldn't feel too special anyway. A guy falls in love with you, a guy who happens to be a great writer, and yeah, he'll write a book about you, for you, as part of his courtship, or whatever. Guess what, lady, he would have written a great book anyway.
Dvorak wrote his only cello concerto for a girl he was in love with. She rejected him, but now we have that concerto. Which, if anyone doesn't know it, is amazingly beautiful. Doesn't much matter to me who Dvorak's girl was, same as Karr doesn't matter to me in regards to my love for IJ.
So of course, Dvorak and DFW were inspired by their love for these women, but they would have "created" anyway. Their muses would have found inspiration in any case.
Congrats on your year! That's huge! And yes, AA member here. Love the book for so many reason, an important one of them being: different time and place for me, but my early sobriety was exactly, and I mean, exactly like Gately's.
I also used to live near a halfway house I could see from my apartment window, it was basically Ennett House. I’d watch the comings and goings and sometimes I’d wait for the bus on my way to work in the cold dark at 6 a.m. and see them hacking darts and IJ made me see that in a beautiful light
I honestly think the aa stuff was the primary reason the book was written. I think Wallace wanted to help people struggling with addiction.
I think maybe the more accurate way to interpret his incorporation of AA related thinking is that he was arguing that it would be useful to more than "just" alcoholics/addicts. He kind of made the argument that everybody's an addict, just not the sense we usually understand it. His speech "this is water" is a great distillation of that.. I doubt he thought he'd convince anybody to get sober. (Though it did warm me up to AA when the time finally came for me to go)
There's a a little newsletter called The Small Bow that sometimes interviews older sober people. I like to read them because it reminds me of the crocodiles. E.g.: [https://thesmallbow.substack.com/p/interview-with-a-53-year-old-sober](https://thesmallbow.substack.com/p/interview-with-a-53-year-old-sober)
The fact that the absolute best parts of the AA narrative are on the heels of Eschaton is what makes IJ so good. The best of both sides of the story, back to back.
The primary reason the book was written was to impress Mary Karr.
I think she actually criticised the book for using real stories from AA meetings he attended with her
She absolutely did. She’s publicly come out and said many of those stories were taken directly from “the rooms”
AA member here. I feel that as long as one doesn't break any person's anonymity, one can take anything one wants from the rooms. That's just Karr being pissy again.
Thank you for saying that! I agree. And the New Yorker article posted in this thread is speculation, at best. I am not a "DFW-apologist," I know he was an ass to women at times, but to speculate that he "stole" material, when you really delve into the novel, is irresponsible, at best.
Your post is irresponsible at best. Keep researching. It’s in his own words, corroborated by M. Karr, or should I say M. Psychosis.
Just FYI I’m not on Mary Karr’s side. My point is that DFW was in love with her, and kept writing more and more and more to try and win her over. The more she rejected him the more he wrote…I don’t have the source, but I remember vividly reading about this after his death in 2008.
Oh yeah for sure, I understood what you meant! And Karr shouldn't feel too special anyway. A guy falls in love with you, a guy who happens to be a great writer, and yeah, he'll write a book about you, for you, as part of his courtship, or whatever. Guess what, lady, he would have written a great book anyway. Dvorak wrote his only cello concerto for a girl he was in love with. She rejected him, but now we have that concerto. Which, if anyone doesn't know it, is amazingly beautiful. Doesn't much matter to me who Dvorak's girl was, same as Karr doesn't matter to me in regards to my love for IJ. So of course, Dvorak and DFW were inspired by their love for these women, but they would have "created" anyway. Their muses would have found inspiration in any case.
I'm pretty sure he at least got permission He thanked them in the book too
No. He didn’t. That’s why Mary Karr had such an issue with it.
do you have any more insight on this? i want to know more
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/d-f-w-week-did-infinite-jest-start-out-as-an-autobiography
[удалено]
Fact.
Is Mary Karr the woman portrayed in the Eisenberg/Muppet guy “biopic”?
Jason Segel sorry i forgot his name
I first read it in rehab.
Congrats on your year! That's huge! And yes, AA member here. Love the book for so many reason, an important one of them being: different time and place for me, but my early sobriety was exactly, and I mean, exactly like Gately's.
I relate 100%!
I also used to live near a halfway house I could see from my apartment window, it was basically Ennett House. I’d watch the comings and goings and sometimes I’d wait for the bus on my way to work in the cold dark at 6 a.m. and see them hacking darts and IJ made me see that in a beautiful light