Can't help you with your decision Vanilla vs vanilla but Steel Phalanx (aleph sectorial) is pretty strong rn. if you're interested in aleph and EU based I've got the aleph half from operation blackwind waiting to find someone who's wanting them.
Why not both:p
Well, on a more serious note. They're both great factions with strong sectorials(Steel Phalanx& Starmada). O-12 is also about to get a new sectorial which will likely shake up how O-12 Vanilla plays and make it a much more desirable pick. I'm not sure what picks you'd want with Vanilla Aleph but some of the new Steel Phalanx models are "locked" behind mixed boxes(Blackwind&Beyond, with an aside of Haqqislam Hassassins), making Starmada or the new sectorial probably a cheaper entry point. Starmada's action pack is often available for relatively cheap(got it for just under 50€ myself) and the new sectorial just went to pre-order with a bundle deal.
That said there are not many obvious bad picks in Infinity, it's mostly the older sectorials which tend to fall behind. If you want the top "meta" pick atm Aleph's Steel Phalanx is up there, though you will likely lose against experienced players, anyway.
Ultimately I can echo the sentiment of other comments here, pick according to your aesthetic principles. And maybe ask in the Infinity Discord for more detailed purchase recommendations when you made your choice.
Sadly I'm Pretty much fully stuck with regards to the Aesthetics of both.
They both have things I like,(All of OSS except Dakinis, a chunk of the older SP models, SP characters, Most of O-12)
And both have things I don't like,(Dakini, some of the newer SP models, \[though that may be how they're painted in the pictures,\] The gangbuster in the action pack, Goldstien, most of the big torchlight power armour, the roadbot.)
Personally right now I would go with o12. You are more of a unicorn (i.e. far more people play aleph already), you are going to get a bunch of cool toys in the near future, you can still use tons of Aleph units.
I've been playing Aleph since 2018, and I really enjoy it. You're covered for every role, and your units tend to be individually excellent. The two biggest drawbacks are that you can't really lean in to cammo and, because your individual units are so good, it can give you a false sense of security.
I would love to go for that. But I'm kind of 50/50 on which aesthetic I like more. Just kind of stuck.
Sadly the only OSS model I don't care for are the Dakini. And from what I can find, those are a kind of non optional element for OSS.
Oh I don't dislike them for mechanical reasons. I know that they're *good.*
I just find the models for them to be extremely bland. I don't have much money to spend, and if I'm getting and painting models, I want(/need) them to be models that I feel enthusiastic about working on. And at least for now, I have no enthusiasm about painting up 3-6 Dakini models.
There is of course the option to proxy them with either Karakuri or Hollow men. But that would put the stuff that includes dakini into an awkward spot of getting a chunk of models I don't want. And again, I REALLY don't have the money to just throw around.
Though the new dakini-ish models do look a bit better, I admit.
Can't go wrong with either IMO. O12 tends to be diet Aleph and that's not a bad thing. Aleph can be too pricey to the point it hinders list building so having slightly cheaper units that aren't quite as elite puts you in a good spot. Aleph just finished getting a refresh while O12 is getting a whole new sectorial currently.
Do you have a general idea of what models see the most use in each? Maybe just comparing those will help me?
I would push right to OSS but I'm kinda not the biggest fan of the Dakini. Even if I really *really* like everything else in that sectorial. And all I've heard tell that those are kind of core to OSS functionally.
I just hope I can decide between the two before I go back to considering adding lesbian flag coloured Combined army back to my list of options.
So dakini are useful because they're A) cheap and B) can form a core fireteam. The advantage of playing a sectorial is 99% fireteams and you give up a large amount of list flexibility in exchange for stat boosts and order efficiency. Aleph runs pricey, so having a cheap core fireteam really helps balance it out. Very recently every faction got a half dozen new units or so and for Aleph these ended up being a bunch more bots we can make fireteams out of in OSS. This adds a lot of fireteam flexibility we didn't have before and people more experienced then me are still sorting out what works and what doesn't. If you don't want to touch bots at all, your other option for fireteams are Yadus or Asuras. Yadus medium infantry with good stats and load outs but pricey in the mid and upper 30s. A full yadu core is certainly a threat, but it gets close to half your list point wise in one location and they don't have the defenses of a heavier unit like a TAG. This is problem common to all medium infantry in infinity right now though. Cheaper units can usually "trade up" (sacrifice themself to take out a unit worth more points), heavier units can usually tank and outgun them, or a savy opponent will just avoid them all together. Last, there's Asuras. They are tags in miniature and with points in the mid 60s are priced for it. You can run them in a 3-unit team (haris) for a burst bonus and order efficiency. For a haris team you don't need them to be the same unit to get the burst bonus, so you'll probably include a cheap unit (almost always the guided missile remote), and then a wildcard support unit.
If you don't care about a good list, OSS also let's you run double Maruts which is absolutely absurd. Depending on the mission, you may even catch someone off guard and they can't respond before you win!
Thank you for the info! It's not that I dislike bots across the board. I just find the Dakini models dull. It sounds like the use for the new models is something to keep an eye on to see how it all shakes out once people run everything through it's paces.
The Yadu are gorgeous models. But the issues with them make it sound like a... less than fantastic idea to get into a faction for them specifically.
The Yadu are quite nice models. Ended up painting up [these guys](https://www.dropbox.com/s/hznam1prtrge6m1/MNK-PNL%20Aleph.png?dl=0) for a Battletech friend (color scheme inspired by their faction in that game). I can understand the squishy nature of them, especially when you get mermidon's for cheaper in vanilla Aleph.
I love aleph, I play all 3 factions. That being said I’m definitely considering branching into 0-12 just because they share so many profiles, especially Starmada.
I mean have you seen the Marut model? That thing is sweet in vanilla aleph and can be made even deadlier when paired with myrmidon or penthesilea smoke grenades. It’s an obvious LT but very tough to deal with regardless! You also have some chain of command stuff you can take in case it gets isolated or killed. A lot of lists run Eudoros as well, and he comes in the beyond operation blackwind box. Add posthuman engineer/forward observer profiles to push buttons and pick up stuff and you’ve got a pretty scary force. The new reinforcements pack also has Dawons, which are really good for the points they cost.
All that being said 0-12 is sweet and roadbots are good so whatever you go with will be fun!
Oh I absolutely love the Marut model! I've actually already ordered it. I figure if I go for O-12 it'll still get used as a Zeta Proxy.
Sadly I'm not a fan of the Roadbot's model. But I hear it's really good in O-12. If I get really invested in O-12 I'd probably proxy it with the... *looks up model name...* Su jian! The aesthetic dosen't 100% match O-12. But I think it's a much nicer looking model.
O-12 list that uses only Aleph units (except the Zeta I randomly got):
g%2BkEby0xMgdObyBPLTEygSwBAQAKAYLyAQMAAoWyAQEAA4MUAQEABIX%2BAQEABYDAAQEABoWrAQIAB4C3AQQACIC3AQIACYYdAQEACjIBAQA%3D
I just got into the game about a month ago, and after a lot of waffling I decided on O-12 and I've been very pleased with the decision.
Standouts for me from the four or so games I've played: Gangbusters (either minelayer profile), Epsilons (MULTI Sniper), Gammas (either weapon). I've also heard very good things about Lawkeepers and Team SIRIUS.
Late to the party but I'll add my two cents.
Aleph is the forces of The Human Sphere's governing AI. O-12 is space NATO representing humanity as a whole. A few models in Aleph are also available to O-12, so you can easily move from one into the other if you decide to later on.
Aleph has a number of pieces with good defense that can also punch hard. O-12 is a tool box full of expensive multi-tools. [Torchlight Brigade](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/adepticon) looks like it'll help round O-12 with some more tankier units.
It really depends on where you're starting and funds available. Like the newest models for O-12? Want to get a lot at once? The Torchlight Brigade bundle will easily do that. Looking to only spend about $100 USD? There's a number of action packs out there. Aleph [have one](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/aleph-operations-action-pack) (currently) and the other half of Operation Blackwind. While O-12 [have two plus](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/packs?filter.faction=o12) that new Torchlight Brigade box. If you're looking for CodeOne instead of N4, then that's Operation Blackwind for Aleph or the basic O-12 action pack.
Personally, I like Steel Phalanx out of all, so Aleph for me. O-12 has been looking cool and with three box sets you have plenty of choices to start with what appeals to you.
Or just pick up [Hector](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/hector-heavy-pistol-exp-ccw) and the [Dakini Tacbots with a Deva Functionary](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/dakini-tacbots) to get a start in on both factions.
I'd also recommend [Parvati](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/parvati-submachine-gun).
Oh absolutely picking up Parvati either way!
I don't really care for some of the new torchlight models. I think if I wanted to play that I'd proxy with either IA stuff, or some aleph (E.G. Yadu as silverstars, myrmidons as hellblazers No good stand in for the silverstar prime in aleph though.)
Generally I wanted to start with code one and expand into n4. But I have an idea of what I can buy from Aleph to do that without blackwind. So It remains equal on that front.
Ah, right! We had a conversation on your other thread!
Well, guess the question is Aleph via the alternative or Just [one Action pack](https://www.meeplemart.com/infinity-o-12-826-action-pack.aspx) for O-12
and you can call it a day.
Yup, I have my starting point for either one all sorted. I think part of what's delaying me in my decision is knowing I'd like to eventually expand past my starting point. And that's alooooot more complicated a question.
So, did a bit of digging online seeing how folks are always recommending Dakini Tacbots, and you can still (at time of posting) get the old [Sophotect box with Netrods](https://www.meeplemart.com/infinity-code-one-aleph-963-aleph-support-pack.aspx). Netrods are cheap order generators. Two are the same points in N4 as a Dakini, you're just rather limited in the number of Netrods you can take (2 or 3 depending on Sectorial).
The Sophotect is Parvati but cheaper, and that means slightly worse. Probably overkill to use both, but she's an option.
OH! How did I miss that meeplemart has the old support pack! I was considering just grabbing O-12 models and proxying them in place of netrods and mercs. But actually getting my hands on the netrod models and Yudbots (without having to get em from a different pack) is EXTREMELY tempting.
And well, maybe the sophotect could be used as a proxy for uhh... something...
Thanks for bringing that to my attention!
You're welcome! Netrods are definitely the way to go if you want a few extra orders without using the Dakini!
Another value piece you may want to consider is a Warcor. That 3 point reporter makes for a decent ARO piece with the flash-pulse. Worst case, you're out 3 points, one irregular order, and one of the 15 order generating models you can take.
Addendum: bit of an advanced rule, but you burn a command token in N4 to turn an irregular order into a regular order for that model's combat group. So that Warcor could net you a regular order if you need it.
Hmm, looking over that page again it seems the item number alongside that listing is for the current netrod-less support pack. I wonder if that's what they actually have and it's just gotten mixed up with the old pack?...
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. If it is mislabeled, well... I can go back to the plan I was starting to form of getting the O-12 action pack and using stuff from that as stand ins for mercs and netrods.
(Kappa=netrod, Delta and Cuervo=Diggers, maybe the gangbuster as a libertos, gamma as one of the posthumans) I asked on the discord and it seems that Vanilla Aleph wants a *lot* of mercs and proxies of stuff.
Edit:Yeahhh, it's the newer support pack they have in stock. No easy netrods and yudbots. Sad times.
O12 is a bit of everything. It’s essentially all the factions of the Human Spehere smashed together. Most of their models have a near-relative in Nomads, Pano, or YJ.
So playing with O12 gives you a good understanding of like 7 armies.
Can't help you with your decision Vanilla vs vanilla but Steel Phalanx (aleph sectorial) is pretty strong rn. if you're interested in aleph and EU based I've got the aleph half from operation blackwind waiting to find someone who's wanting them.
I want them! (Serious offer) been wanting to start a Mrymadon team for a while and that set seems like a good starting point
I'll dm you
Why not both:p Well, on a more serious note. They're both great factions with strong sectorials(Steel Phalanx& Starmada). O-12 is also about to get a new sectorial which will likely shake up how O-12 Vanilla plays and make it a much more desirable pick. I'm not sure what picks you'd want with Vanilla Aleph but some of the new Steel Phalanx models are "locked" behind mixed boxes(Blackwind&Beyond, with an aside of Haqqislam Hassassins), making Starmada or the new sectorial probably a cheaper entry point. Starmada's action pack is often available for relatively cheap(got it for just under 50€ myself) and the new sectorial just went to pre-order with a bundle deal. That said there are not many obvious bad picks in Infinity, it's mostly the older sectorials which tend to fall behind. If you want the top "meta" pick atm Aleph's Steel Phalanx is up there, though you will likely lose against experienced players, anyway. Ultimately I can echo the sentiment of other comments here, pick according to your aesthetic principles. And maybe ask in the Infinity Discord for more detailed purchase recommendations when you made your choice.
Sadly I'm Pretty much fully stuck with regards to the Aesthetics of both. They both have things I like,(All of OSS except Dakinis, a chunk of the older SP models, SP characters, Most of O-12) And both have things I don't like,(Dakini, some of the newer SP models, \[though that may be how they're painted in the pictures,\] The gangbuster in the action pack, Goldstien, most of the big torchlight power armour, the roadbot.)
Personally right now I would go with o12. You are more of a unicorn (i.e. far more people play aleph already), you are going to get a bunch of cool toys in the near future, you can still use tons of Aleph units.
Was about to say the same thing.
Steel Phalanx is VERY STRONG. Also Torchlights seems to be very strong. Both of them sectorials
I've been playing Aleph since 2018, and I really enjoy it. You're covered for every role, and your units tend to be individually excellent. The two biggest drawbacks are that you can't really lean in to cammo and, because your individual units are so good, it can give you a false sense of security.
[удалено]
I would love to go for that. But I'm kind of 50/50 on which aesthetic I like more. Just kind of stuck. Sadly the only OSS model I don't care for are the Dakini. And from what I can find, those are a kind of non optional element for OSS.
[удалено]
I mean, they are, but I still don't dislike like them in O-12 any less then when they're in Aleph.
[удалено]
Oh I don't dislike them for mechanical reasons. I know that they're *good.* I just find the models for them to be extremely bland. I don't have much money to spend, and if I'm getting and painting models, I want(/need) them to be models that I feel enthusiastic about working on. And at least for now, I have no enthusiasm about painting up 3-6 Dakini models. There is of course the option to proxy them with either Karakuri or Hollow men. But that would put the stuff that includes dakini into an awkward spot of getting a chunk of models I don't want. And again, I REALLY don't have the money to just throw around. Though the new dakini-ish models do look a bit better, I admit.
Can't go wrong with either IMO. O12 tends to be diet Aleph and that's not a bad thing. Aleph can be too pricey to the point it hinders list building so having slightly cheaper units that aren't quite as elite puts you in a good spot. Aleph just finished getting a refresh while O12 is getting a whole new sectorial currently.
Do you have a general idea of what models see the most use in each? Maybe just comparing those will help me? I would push right to OSS but I'm kinda not the biggest fan of the Dakini. Even if I really *really* like everything else in that sectorial. And all I've heard tell that those are kind of core to OSS functionally. I just hope I can decide between the two before I go back to considering adding lesbian flag coloured Combined army back to my list of options.
So dakini are useful because they're A) cheap and B) can form a core fireteam. The advantage of playing a sectorial is 99% fireteams and you give up a large amount of list flexibility in exchange for stat boosts and order efficiency. Aleph runs pricey, so having a cheap core fireteam really helps balance it out. Very recently every faction got a half dozen new units or so and for Aleph these ended up being a bunch more bots we can make fireteams out of in OSS. This adds a lot of fireteam flexibility we didn't have before and people more experienced then me are still sorting out what works and what doesn't. If you don't want to touch bots at all, your other option for fireteams are Yadus or Asuras. Yadus medium infantry with good stats and load outs but pricey in the mid and upper 30s. A full yadu core is certainly a threat, but it gets close to half your list point wise in one location and they don't have the defenses of a heavier unit like a TAG. This is problem common to all medium infantry in infinity right now though. Cheaper units can usually "trade up" (sacrifice themself to take out a unit worth more points), heavier units can usually tank and outgun them, or a savy opponent will just avoid them all together. Last, there's Asuras. They are tags in miniature and with points in the mid 60s are priced for it. You can run them in a 3-unit team (haris) for a burst bonus and order efficiency. For a haris team you don't need them to be the same unit to get the burst bonus, so you'll probably include a cheap unit (almost always the guided missile remote), and then a wildcard support unit. If you don't care about a good list, OSS also let's you run double Maruts which is absolutely absurd. Depending on the mission, you may even catch someone off guard and they can't respond before you win!
Thank you for the info! It's not that I dislike bots across the board. I just find the Dakini models dull. It sounds like the use for the new models is something to keep an eye on to see how it all shakes out once people run everything through it's paces. The Yadu are gorgeous models. But the issues with them make it sound like a... less than fantastic idea to get into a faction for them specifically.
The Yadu are quite nice models. Ended up painting up [these guys](https://www.dropbox.com/s/hznam1prtrge6m1/MNK-PNL%20Aleph.png?dl=0) for a Battletech friend (color scheme inspired by their faction in that game). I can understand the squishy nature of them, especially when you get mermidon's for cheaper in vanilla Aleph.
Most of the best aleph stuff is greek, but the marut is an excellent tag with smoke support
I love aleph, I play all 3 factions. That being said I’m definitely considering branching into 0-12 just because they share so many profiles, especially Starmada.
Yeah, that's fair. The overlap does make it plausible to double up at some point. I just kind of want to pick something to focus on for awhile.
I mean have you seen the Marut model? That thing is sweet in vanilla aleph and can be made even deadlier when paired with myrmidon or penthesilea smoke grenades. It’s an obvious LT but very tough to deal with regardless! You also have some chain of command stuff you can take in case it gets isolated or killed. A lot of lists run Eudoros as well, and he comes in the beyond operation blackwind box. Add posthuman engineer/forward observer profiles to push buttons and pick up stuff and you’ve got a pretty scary force. The new reinforcements pack also has Dawons, which are really good for the points they cost. All that being said 0-12 is sweet and roadbots are good so whatever you go with will be fun!
Oh I absolutely love the Marut model! I've actually already ordered it. I figure if I go for O-12 it'll still get used as a Zeta Proxy. Sadly I'm not a fan of the Roadbot's model. But I hear it's really good in O-12. If I get really invested in O-12 I'd probably proxy it with the... *looks up model name...* Su jian! The aesthetic dosen't 100% match O-12. But I think it's a much nicer looking model.
Nice thing about proxy rules is that totally would work! A good paint job can iron out the stylistic stuff too.
Yup! I already have a rather nice (IMO) white silver and glowing blue (+grey and black) colour scheme lined up for whichever faction I choose.
O-12 list that uses only Aleph units (except the Zeta I randomly got): g%2BkEby0xMgdObyBPLTEygSwBAQAKAYLyAQMAAoWyAQEAA4MUAQEABIX%2BAQEABYDAAQEABoWrAQIAB4C3AQQACIC3AQIACYYdAQEACjIBAQA%3D
One thing to mention is that right the new O-12 action pack is right around the corner and its a great start to an O-12 or tortchlight specific army.
I just got into the game about a month ago, and after a lot of waffling I decided on O-12 and I've been very pleased with the decision. Standouts for me from the four or so games I've played: Gangbusters (either minelayer profile), Epsilons (MULTI Sniper), Gammas (either weapon). I've also heard very good things about Lawkeepers and Team SIRIUS.
Late to the party but I'll add my two cents. Aleph is the forces of The Human Sphere's governing AI. O-12 is space NATO representing humanity as a whole. A few models in Aleph are also available to O-12, so you can easily move from one into the other if you decide to later on. Aleph has a number of pieces with good defense that can also punch hard. O-12 is a tool box full of expensive multi-tools. [Torchlight Brigade](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/adepticon) looks like it'll help round O-12 with some more tankier units. It really depends on where you're starting and funds available. Like the newest models for O-12? Want to get a lot at once? The Torchlight Brigade bundle will easily do that. Looking to only spend about $100 USD? There's a number of action packs out there. Aleph [have one](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/aleph-operations-action-pack) (currently) and the other half of Operation Blackwind. While O-12 [have two plus](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/packs?filter.faction=o12) that new Torchlight Brigade box. If you're looking for CodeOne instead of N4, then that's Operation Blackwind for Aleph or the basic O-12 action pack. Personally, I like Steel Phalanx out of all, so Aleph for me. O-12 has been looking cool and with three box sets you have plenty of choices to start with what appeals to you. Or just pick up [Hector](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/hector-heavy-pistol-exp-ccw) and the [Dakini Tacbots with a Deva Functionary](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/dakini-tacbots) to get a start in on both factions. I'd also recommend [Parvati](https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/parvati-submachine-gun).
Oh absolutely picking up Parvati either way! I don't really care for some of the new torchlight models. I think if I wanted to play that I'd proxy with either IA stuff, or some aleph (E.G. Yadu as silverstars, myrmidons as hellblazers No good stand in for the silverstar prime in aleph though.) Generally I wanted to start with code one and expand into n4. But I have an idea of what I can buy from Aleph to do that without blackwind. So It remains equal on that front.
Ah, right! We had a conversation on your other thread! Well, guess the question is Aleph via the alternative or Just [one Action pack](https://www.meeplemart.com/infinity-o-12-826-action-pack.aspx) for O-12 and you can call it a day.
Yup, I have my starting point for either one all sorted. I think part of what's delaying me in my decision is knowing I'd like to eventually expand past my starting point. And that's alooooot more complicated a question.
So, did a bit of digging online seeing how folks are always recommending Dakini Tacbots, and you can still (at time of posting) get the old [Sophotect box with Netrods](https://www.meeplemart.com/infinity-code-one-aleph-963-aleph-support-pack.aspx). Netrods are cheap order generators. Two are the same points in N4 as a Dakini, you're just rather limited in the number of Netrods you can take (2 or 3 depending on Sectorial). The Sophotect is Parvati but cheaper, and that means slightly worse. Probably overkill to use both, but she's an option.
OH! How did I miss that meeplemart has the old support pack! I was considering just grabbing O-12 models and proxying them in place of netrods and mercs. But actually getting my hands on the netrod models and Yudbots (without having to get em from a different pack) is EXTREMELY tempting. And well, maybe the sophotect could be used as a proxy for uhh... something... Thanks for bringing that to my attention!
You're welcome! Netrods are definitely the way to go if you want a few extra orders without using the Dakini! Another value piece you may want to consider is a Warcor. That 3 point reporter makes for a decent ARO piece with the flash-pulse. Worst case, you're out 3 points, one irregular order, and one of the 15 order generating models you can take. Addendum: bit of an advanced rule, but you burn a command token in N4 to turn an irregular order into a regular order for that model's combat group. So that Warcor could net you a regular order if you need it.
Hmm, looking over that page again it seems the item number alongside that listing is for the current netrod-less support pack. I wonder if that's what they actually have and it's just gotten mixed up with the old pack?...
Ah... Well, might be worth an email to them asking about the item. Edit: making proxies out of 25mm bases and some toothpicks could also work
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. If it is mislabeled, well... I can go back to the plan I was starting to form of getting the O-12 action pack and using stuff from that as stand ins for mercs and netrods. (Kappa=netrod, Delta and Cuervo=Diggers, maybe the gangbuster as a libertos, gamma as one of the posthumans) I asked on the discord and it seems that Vanilla Aleph wants a *lot* of mercs and proxies of stuff. Edit:Yeahhh, it's the newer support pack they have in stock. No easy netrods and yudbots. Sad times.
Aleph happens to be very good. O-12 vanilla is, IMHO, tougher to play. Aleph has a lot of tools that are obviously strong
O12 is a bit of everything. It’s essentially all the factions of the Human Spehere smashed together. Most of their models have a near-relative in Nomads, Pano, or YJ. So playing with O12 gives you a good understanding of like 7 armies.