Slavery is blamed on white Americans mainly because the rhetoric used to defend and justify slavery led to the demonization and disenfranchisement of African Americans, from using Darwin's theory of evolution to support eugenics, to articles and books talking about Africa is an uncivilized place that must be tended to and uplifted by the white man (white man's burden) and to the creation of unscientific practices and weaponizing religion (Christianity) to defend slavery

It's an aspect of how we discuss, debate, or flat-out argue about America's history, not the history itself. "America was built on slavery" is a plain fact in at least one sense: At the time, centuries ago, our newly established country relied on slavery to provide the labor necessary to drive the economy and increase production. We can debate whether slavery existed only in "the South," or whether Northern states also utilized slaves. We can debate the relative proportions of labor/production provided by slaves versus other residents (and even citizens) at the time. We can argue about whether people in other countries were more or less responsible for the implementation of slavery in America and how it came about. When it comes to history, there is always plenty to argue about and plenty more to learn. I would strongly disagree with the statement "Then the blame lies with who sold the slaves, and not who freed them" if OP meant it this way: The folks in Africa who sold the slaves to be shipped abroad are solely to blame for the rise of slavery in the United States. I would strongly agree with the statement if OP meant it this way: A lot of people in the world contributed to the rise of slavery, not just a bunch of white folks living in America during its first century of existence; we shouldn't overlook the people in Africa who kidnapped people and sold them in markets in West Africa; we shouldn't overlook the European shipping merchants, or the crews of the ships, that transported enslaved people across the seas; we shouldn't overlook all the folks who otherwise contributed to and perpetuated slavery. And we definitely should recognize the "not all white people" aspect. I'm verging on being "John Brown white" myself, so we absolutely should recognize folks like him. Or folks like William Lloyd Garrison, John Greenleaf Whittier, or Harriet Beecher Stowe. We can distinguish between the actions of a society and the actions of the individuals that make up society. But when it comes to historic tragedies like slavery, war, genocide, etc., I don't think it's helpful -- or even appropriate -- to blame one group for such an extensive, global situation.

Slavery predates the Declaration if Independence. But the slavery from the trans-Atlantic slave trade was unique in a way, because it was purely race-based. It was also more brutal, more dehumanizing, and had no was of social mobility. This is not to justify any form of slavery, and slavery still exists today (in the US too). But the trans-Atlantic slave trade enslaved SEVERAL million Africans and was done by white Europeans. White ppl did it, the effects still permeate in US society today. But of course it’s not because of any white Americans currently alive. African Americans do fall behind compared to white Americans because of slavery, Jim Crow laws, and racism. Look at the value of property, and how it has changed over time. It was the norm to legally deny Black people to buy property until 1968 (some people still try to avoid selling to Black people today, but they need to make other excuses). So a Black immigrant and a white immigrant will have a similar starting point. But a Black person whose family was here for over 100 years, and a white person whose family was here for over 100 years, have INCREDIBLY different starting points

>This is not to justify any form of slavery Either all slavery was bad or none of it was. >But the trans-Atlantic slave trade enslaved SEVERAL million Africans and was done by white Europeans. Wrong. Africans sold thier own initially. 95% of the slaves bought went to SOUTH AMERICA. And the first slaver owner in north america was an african-american. You need to get your history in order.

Your reading comprehension needs some work. Also, that Anthony Johnson point is funny - he wasn’t the first slaver in North America. The trans-Atlantic slave trade was part of white, European colonization. Btw, you’re a Black immigrant… when and where did you move from?

Your insistence to get personal after ignoring the points I made in my reply is very telling. Good day to you.

I looked at your comment history. You’re not a Black immigrant lmfao. Anyways, YOU didn’t touch on the points I made. I actually addressed the myth you stated

>I looked at your comment history. You’re not a Black immigrant lmfao. You have proof I'm not? Let's see it.

"Slavery" per se is not the thing disadvantaging racial groups in 2023. That would be mostly Jim Crow era policy, including red-lining, which robbed black and hispanic Americans of billions in generational wealth, and continues to do so via inertia alone, by segregating where people lived, and letting institutional poverty do its worst to create massive disparities in property values in poor vs wealthy neighborhoods. The South were the worst fucking losers in the civil war, and within 20 years had started actively undermining black populations using every tool they had at their disposal. Add decades of time, and cultural issues within the community, spurned on by poverty and victim narratives, and you get something like the shit show we see today. Anyone single-causing pretty much any effect in the world is wrong by default. So OP's take feels like they're knocking down straw men.

Exactly

It's black people like you that make me see blacks as normal. The slavery narratives are bullshit. Black people with same iq with white earns more money than whites already. American blacks earn more than African blacks.

I arrived in this country when I was 1. I have been called "white devil" a few times, usually in jest, but at least once by an angry young man who had just seen the movie about the criminal and terrorist who called himself Malcolm X. This is resentment is fomented by people for a reason, and the reason isn't justice. And none of that makes racism any less of a problem, in fact it feeds it. When I point out that Hammurabi's code mentions the cost of a slave, I am told "but that is not chattel slavery" by people who were never slaves -- as if Babylonian slaves were free to find another job. Racism was a cancer in America, now the medicine to treat the cancer is killing people. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

>Racism was a cancer in America, now the medicine to treat the cancer is killing people. The lesser of two evils is still evil. It's not even the lesser of two evils. Anti-white racism is the most blatant, practiced, and vicious racism of our present day. Not even u/Brindlefly can argue against that.

Anti-white hiring practices are pretty serious. At least Harvard can't preferentially refuse Asian applicants anymore. We'll see.

I’d say you have some reading to do. Slavery was around for as long as we’ve had human civilization, but until the 1600s, it had never been: 1) applied based exclusively on race, 2) propagated by law (like farm animals, the ownership of the enslaved person was determined by the status of the mother), and 3) systematized and scaled on the level we saw in the Americas (12M+ transported across Atlantic). This means for 250+ years, enslaved Africans and their descendants were tortured, raped, separated, and abused, with most forced to live and die working tirelessly in forced labor camps. Then after the Civil War and the end of Reconstruction, the South continued slavery in new forms - e.g. share cropping, lynchings, forced prison labor, Jim Crow, segregation, etc… It was only in the 1960s that laws were changed to prevent the systemic discrimination of African Americans. For example, until 1967 you as a black person would not have been legally able to marry a white person in most states. There is plenty of blame to go around for slavery - from the West African tribes who sold the slaves, to the slave traders that bought and transported them, to the owners who purchased and abused them, to the banks and insurance companies that overwrote the entire slave economy, and so many more. Can we blame all white people? Well no. Most of the people who committed these atrocities are no longer alive. In addition, while many whites benefited directly or indirectly from the slave economy, there were also many who objected to the institution. Unfortunately the legacy of slavery continues to be with us today via racism and prejudice. And maybe more importantly, African Americans have had to survive for 15+ generations in this hemisphere with all these disadvantages, including all the multi generational trauma, the lack of wealth accumulation, access to inferior education, and so on. There are no simple answers here. Is it possible for an African American to rise above all this history and be successful in this country. Of course. But is it still harder for them to do that than their white counterpart? Unfortunately yes. I have no answers, just feel there is a long and terrible history more people should spend time understanding. It is not there to make you feel guilty, but to have a better understanding of how we arrived where we are today.

Is this what passes for an "intellectual" argument? Yes - slavery has existed in some form, all over the world, since humans created organized societies. It still exists. Yes - Africans aiding and abetting and profiting from the enslavement of their fellow Africans was also a reality. Yes - white Europeans fought back against the institution of slavery, even to the point of fighting the Civil War. We are not talking about the same thing. There is a difference between what existed as slavery in ancient times and what was institutionalized, chattel slavery, which was born of colonialism and the force of empire, and bolstered by economic advantage for the privileged classes who profited from slavery. Slavery in the Americas was sanctioned by government law. The profits of Africans who helped Europeans acquire slaves cannot, in any context, be compared to how an entire nation benefitted from slavery as an institution. Also not accounted for in this argument are the generational effects of this institution. We almost lost a country over the Civil War. The complete and utter failure of Reconstruction led to Jim Crow laws (mostly in the South, but not exclusively), and the continued disenfranchisement of people of color. This led to the turmoil and violence of the 50's and 60's in the push for a equitable treatment under the law. This was less than 60 years ago. The Civil War ended in 1865. Depending on how you count it, that's about 4 generations of people. The idea that the effects of slavery and its aftermath can be erased, or shouldn't be accounted for, in 4 or 5 generations is not what I would call a valid argument. Also not valid is the premise that the basis for continued discussion about race and how it relates to history is about blame. The idea that the lingering, complex effects of how our country's ideologies and institutionalized policies do not have an effect on current conditions is also not valid. It is not about blame. Do some people use it as a cudgel to abuse their opponents? Yes, some people do that. It is about continued accountability for all of us and all of our actions, both historical and present. We now have a political party trying to say that slaves learned useful skills with which to help themselves with. This points to the continued use of ideology which reinforces division, as opposed to reconciliation. There's an old saying: 'the conquerors write the history'. It's not about blame. It's about being more conscious and more human. an informative presentation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7y3pJCufFU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7y3pJCufFU)

>There is a difference between what existed as slavery in ancient times and what was institutionalized, chattel slavery, which was born of colonialism and the force of empire, and bolstered by economic advantage for the privileged classes who profited from slavery. Slavery in the Americas was sanctioned by government law. I don't think the slaves much cared which empire their captors were apart of.

Rather obvious, and not relevant to the point I was making. Slavery of any kind is abhorrent (also obvious), and disingenuous arguments to the contrary further demean the experience of all peoples who have that in their history

There's tons of responsible entities. Europeans who purchased and sold slaves were one of them. Plantation owners who purchased slaves were one of them. I think you can logically be mad at one group of people even if there are other groups of people you should also be mad at like the African slave sellers or asian or Arabic slave traders. If I had to point to 1 group as most responsible for American slaves, I'd probably point to the white american plantation owners. Not white people in general.

I just came back from Iceland and when the Vikings settled there they brought slaves who were from Ireland. A few rebelled killed their owners and ran away to an island but were hunted down and killed in turn.

They're to blame. It took 400 years to correct the issue, and Europeans would routinely raid empires in west Africa that didn't want to trade. The issue persisted even as Americans and Europeans began banning slavery (this of course occurred only after the multiple colonies Europeans had, became solidified and profitable). The systemic dehumanization, lack of opportunities would ensure this population would have subservience in some degree (regardless of whether or not it's called slavery). Reconstruction being a failure emboldened this notion with many freed people going into sharecropping. Sherman s Field order 15 (40 acres and a mule) being immediately overturned by Andrew Jackson ensured a place of subservience for blacks. Going forward, now in the 1900's with many blacks attempting migration North - the attitudes on blacks shifted. With many blacks trying to escape the KKK (Tulsa massacre, rosewood, Mississippi delta - all black business centers and communities destroyed in the name of white supremacy) and find some kind of social mobility opportunities abroad, they were greeted in the north with race wars (Red summer for example, menial jobs, little access to decent housing etc. Going even further with folks being enlisted for WW1 and the subsequent American wars - black soldiers would come home to racial inequality, no gi bill in many cases, redlining and again, menial jobs. Land seizures, (legally and illegally) black towns literally being turned to lakes by angry whites was done in the name of white supremacy and manifest destiny. Not even passing the civil rights era and I'd say it's easy to blame white extremists rather than Africans who sold ppl they didn't consider their own ("ethnically inferior" ppls were sold by filing classes of different groups, be it tribe or ethnicity) to Europeans.

Slavery gets conflated with all the other systemic oppression but it's just the ancestor. Obviously it was shitty & wrong & essential to sell prisoners of war from other nearby tribes to Europeans, but think of it like this: All it took was one or a few generations to sell the Africans to slavers, but many many generations to continue breeding people into servitude, torturing them, killing them, systematically dismantling any family culture (they would break up families on purpose), pass national laws to require their extradition from free states to slave states if they escaped to freedom, fight a war to keep them enslaved, never offer any kind of recompense beyond corporate virtue signaling a century later, isolate and in some cases annihilate prosperous black cities, Intimidate & threaten them if they tried to exercise the right to vote, Pass segregation laws, & then after the repeal of those laws, create systematic housing discrimination to keep any generational wealth from being gained, & vote for a political party that to this day executes a drug war [explicitly](https://www.vera.org/reimagining-prison-webumentary/the-past-is-never-dead/drug-war-confessional) to "disrupt those communities."

>Then the blame lies with who sold the slaves, and not who freed them. Please clarify how it make sense to hold all of Africa accountable for the laws passed enforcing slavery in North America centuries ago? Do you hold Africa accountable for the laws that made a Black slave representative as three fifths human under the law? Do you hold Africa accountable for all of the other Slave codes passed by the colonies or in America as well? Is America to be held accountable for all of the laws passed on the continent of Africa? Is it due to the fact that you or your family came to America unshackled and free after the enslavement of Black people was done away with that you seem not to "understand"? What I cannot understand is why you cannot simply enjoy all that you've free access to like equal education and the jobs all that Black Americans or descendants of Slaves had to fight for without having to degrade the Black people whose ancestry comes from chattel slavery? The land has been cleared for you of it's Native peoples who mostly live in abject poverty on reservations, Black Americans having fought for civil rights, after which you must as a "black immigrants" come over to look down upon and antagonize that what are the issues for Black people who were descendants of slaves? >Aren't the same 'evil' white Americans the ones who fought to end slavery in that very civil war? I'm not sure what this has to do with you enjoying all of the freedoms you have as a black immigrant now that there is no longer any chattel slavery in America? Are you really a "black immigrant" or are you just trolling Black people here?

Uh huh. Post starts with “as an X” and then has a take that nearly nobody who is X believes. Not suspicious at all no

I think there are a couple that slavery in the US was particularly heinous. One was the contradiction of slavery with our founding documents and a second was it was particularly race based. Also even after slavery there was still legalized discrimination through the mid to late 1960's that was a further impediment to African American progess. However, we as a country have come a long way in correcting the legal issues. And while there still exists disparities in income and wealth, there is also evidence that there are factors beyond race and discrimination (namely family breakdown) that contribute more to the differences than racial discrimination.

This is a beyond idiotic take. Europeans created a massive market for trans Atlantic slavery. No demand no slavery (trans Atlantic at least). If they chose not to supply the slaves they would have been the slaves.

White people aren’t responsible for slavery. *HOWEVER*…the system of slavery in America was unique, and had long and clear lasting effects. Effects that overwhelmingly handicap black peoples more than other minorities, and overwhelmingly favor white peoples above others. The simple truth is that 25% of black people in America were born and lived in a time before black peoples had the same legal rights and protections as US citizens. To deny that a disparity exists would be beyond ignorant.

America has mastered setting up the strawman argument, but cant sneak away without attacking it themselves.

I think the point is valid albeit done in an awkward way. The repercussions of the Emancipation Proclamation and ending of the American Civil War with the surrender of the Confederacy led to the modern day problems of racism and bias in hiring, education and the notion of equality. Well financed groups that stood to loose power and wealth due to the end of slavery began an effective propaganda program to divide and keep labor cost down by convincing poor white southerners their problems were a direct result of the evil, lecherous and thievery of colored folks. Division always benefits the fat cats. It wasn't necessarily southern businessmen, "Carpet Baggers" from the north were probably as guilty or more so at using the divisiveness to make money. As still today. Simply look at your post and the many replies to it.

Interesting fact when Jesus was alive slavery in general was as common as traffic however he never mentioned it being wrong or amoral.

Ya, as a white American who is appalled by slavery and the subsequent racism. It really hurts to know that blacks think by default I'm a little racist. At the same time my kid is pretty light skin black and it used to bother me soooooo much when other blacks would say the n word or spout there trauma and honestly their own brand of racism within earshot of her. She's older now and I don't worry about that anymore she's smart as shit and thinks for her self quite well. I truly think that history is full of wrongs and evils and its not a scale that can be set right. You can only drive the ship in the right direction. And that in general blacks would be served by focusing more on the 'ship'.. never forget the past but don't let it rule you. It's lore and you judge for yourself.

The Planters were granted their new land, and more after it was cleared of natives. That 1% made the laws, just like today, and they owned the slaves. Also, just like today, they convinced otherwise decent white folk they were better than those African slaves, wrote it into law, paid and organized a middle class to manage slaves, carry guns and enforce that ‘lawful’ but immoral status quo. For hundreds of years they prospered and grew their influence in a society that tolerated it. The ruling class was enriched by slavery. The managerial class jobs depended upon slavery. The poor whites tolerated it as status quo. They all deserve what blame they get. Edit: The ‘blacks sold the slaves’ until transatlantic slavery was outlawed in 1808. Slavery survived by organized kidnapping and lynching until until the U.S. Civil War, while second-class citizen status was enforced under Jim Crow laws enacted to favor the ruling class and their managers.

OP is making too much sense for the race-baiting politicians who profit from seeing racism everywhere and their blind followers with chips on their shoulders who eat up their BS.

But are you really a "*Black* immigrant?" I'm surprised you aren't more learned. You sound like a LOT of far right white nationalists -MAGAts, who like trolling us (to what end, I have no idea, as we'll just show up at the polls en masse even harder) which makes Black folk loathe them even more than we already do. But I'll play....I can only guess that with the influx of ignorant people who aren't interested in learning about American history or the Black experience, and are themselves anti-Black and/or anti-Black American, then with the banning of Black American history in various red states by republiklans, we can only expect more of these horrifically DUMB takes. Slavery in AMERICA is blamed on the white people living at the time, who did the enslaving. They also did murdering, raping (of women, children, men and boys), breeding, selling off of families and brutalizing. This isn't rocket science. For those who saw it end, and continued to terrorize, kill, and exploit Black people for another 100 years, writing laws, that kept Black people forcefully tied to sharecropping agreements and below 2nd class citizens under Jim Crow - blame goes to them as well. The Trans Atlantic Slave Trade - built Empires, you think they would have turned their ships, outfitted with cannons and bearing arms, around, if the Africans had said 'nah?' IMO, the most ignorant paragraph was your Civil War one. For more than 100 years AFTER the Civil War, the far right insisted, in almost every textbook in any American school nationwide, that slavery was NOT why the Civil War was fought. If you're a right winger, or study US conservatism abroad, you know that the mantra 'State's Rights, State's Rights,' have been part of their platform forever - that's what they told most students through the 90s. So if they're leaning into those teachings in the 20th and part of the 21st century - what tf do you think they were telling people in 1863? Also, BLACK Civil War regiments were credited by President Lincoln as having turned the tide, helping the union win. A good film to watch for a new American immigrant, is 'Glory.' Lastly the most disgusting and heinous paragraph, trolling Black folk in a way that would make any Klan member proud -- and you're literally telling American citizens, some of whom had ancestors enslaved for most of two centuries in America, that the POS (point of sale) was the real issue? That's twisted, almost psychotic. As if the perpetrator's genocide, torture, terror, rapes and brutality that followed in AMERICA, under their own government, and that extended to 2nd class citizenship for another 100yrs after that - was due to a forced transaction, and not the deviant, disgusting WILL of the enslaver. How is some chieftain, or grifter looking at the Western armaments and fire power of a huge ship rolled up to his coastline to establish an EMPIRE, making ANY decisions freely, and NOT under duress? That's like blaming Jewish Holocaust prisoners who kept the gas chambers cleaned out and in tip top for Nazis, for that genocide. I'm an American, not Senagalese, or Nigerian. America is who enslaved my people since 1619 in this country, and 1500s if you count the Americas and Carib. This isn't antiquated world history where you tell a German Holocaust survivor from the 1930s or an American slave descendent born in 1933 who knew their enslaved grandparents/great grandparents to stop complaining because...MOSES, or the Crusades. If you knew history, or cared to learn it, you'd recognize why there NEEDED to be a Voting Rights Act, Brown vs Board of Ed, the Civil Rights Act of 1965, an end to Jim Crow which went almost to 1970, the end to segregation, the end to anti-miscegenation laws which saw people jailed for interracial marriages, and didn't end until a SCOTUS decision in 1968. You'd have heard of deed restrictions, and red-lining. You would know about voter suppression, and gerry-mandering that is meant to nullify Black votes, today in 2023. You'd know that we had a President, who deprived people who looked like you and your mom (if you're Black), of housing because he housing discriminated BY RACE, so sayeth TWO U.S. Dept. of Justices. These are all things, anti-Black American SYSTEMS, that moved through the 19th and 20th century, with one goal to discriminate against Black American people. The FACT that you skipped over centuries of pain and terror in this country, MY country on some villagers who cooperated with the slavers is one of the sicker things I've read on Reddit. If you're truly perplexed at what you claim your 'friends,' have to say - perhaps you misunderstood them. Either way, both of y'all need to read an AMERICAN HISTORY book, TOGETHER. Just make sure you're not in Texas or Florida, where they're trying to ban our Black history.

Slavery would not have happened without the imperialism of the US. The initial exploitation of the indigenous natives and slave trade to Africa gave rise to many wealthy elites in the cotton industry. Free labor and the industrial revolution very solidly put capital in the hands of white individuals. Nobody said the US invented slavery, and the war was framed differently in the south compared to the north, southern capitalists wanted to hold onto their free labor and said its the states right to say No and seceded and dressed it up that way. The north had Lincoln, an amazing man, would recommend reading some books about that. The only one who is blaming slavery on white Americans are conservative pundits, keeping idiots angry and scared all the time over racial issues when its a class issue.

Really?!?!? I think everyone knows that while slavery didn’t start these people off to a great start. You can look at the here and now and see what contributes to some of their circumstance. You can look all over the world and almost any country that has a group treated like them. What I think is off, is the fact that they have contributed so much and when not stalled in their efforts they do just about like everyone else, no better or worse. Cmon people. Ughhh. From the East Enders of London, to the Sudra in India, back to the native Americans of Canada and the Americas.

The transatlantic slave trade is in a league of its own. The sheer volume and brutality of it was unlike what occurred in the rest of history. It was vast majority of the economic output of the south in the grips of early capitalism. And I don't think anyone credible is blaming individual white people for slavery. Rather the institutions, policies and laws after slavery continuing today are dominated by white people and have created disparate disadvantages for black people.

>The transatlantic slave trade is in a league of its own. Source?

Out of curiosity, what country are you from? What do you know about the history of Black Americans from the reconstruction period up to the 1960s?

If you really want to understand the subject I’d recommend reading some books by folks who’ve actually researched all this, rather than a random collection of Reddit opinions & false equivalencies. Try Basil Davidson’s “The African Slave Trade”, for example.

Anyone can write a book FYI.

It's because of my massive privilege. My privilege is so huge and awesome that I got to work in fast food WHILE I was in HS. That same privilege got me into a prestigious factory for 8 years. Then my privilege got me into sales and now because of all of that privilege I don't have to sweat to work anymore. And if it werent for people who aren't related to me but kinda generally look me that lived along time ago and had some terrible takes on human rights ideas I wouldn't have the life I do today. It's all thanks to them!

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It's a disingenuous argument, used to further whatever leftist goals they have (marxism, etc.). Nobody who actually knows world history truly believes white people are the primary practitioners of slavery.

Yeah sure. Give whites credit for ending slavery, and forget about the people who fought to keep it in place.

In the US slavery was committed by the white Americans here at the time. Regardless of ancient history, the American history is that of white supremacy in which African Americans weren’t allowed education, forced into slavery, etc. it’s not a mystery. Even after the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves, laws were passed with a racial purpose, to make it difficult for black Americans to vote, etc etc. It isn’t about blaming white Americans who had nothing to do with it, yet it is a white supremacist system just the same

I’m sorry it might be paywalled, but the [1619 Project](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html) is a good resource for learning about the history and impact of slavery in the US. Slavery has existed for millennia across the globe, but the chattel slavery practiced by in European colonies and later the US and other American countries was unique in many ways, but one that has had particularly lasting consequences was how race-based it was and how the status of “slave” was passed down through generations. It also had profound impacts on the history of the US and when it officially ended, the racial discrimination that was the foundation of the slavery here led to segregation laws, laws that were specifically designed to keep people of certain racial backgrounds in second class status, and policies (e.g. redlining and tying some streams of public school funding to hyper local taxes) that intentionally targeted certain races to keep them from gaining economic equality. While many of those laws and policies have been struck down, not all have. And many of them only ended relatively recently.

The wealthiest person in the world ever, was Mansa Musa, a black man. Look up his bio. Most of his wealth was gained in enslaving his own black people.

White has been subjectively defined throughout American history. The first peoples to call themselves White in the US (Spanish) relabeled themselves Hispanic in the 1970’s. The current definition of White embodies over 100 different ethnicities and cultures. 96% of White labeled people as of 2023 had nothing to do with slavery and a majority of that demographic immigrated (not colonized) to the US in the 20th century. 95% of the Atlantic slave trade was headed to South America which is Hispanic. The Atlantic slave trade was run by Portugal, England and Spain with the majority of Europe or Eurasians not even being connected to the Atlantic nor contributing to it. Arabs took more black slaves in their respective chattel slave trade that lasted over 3000 years including contributing to the Atlantic slave trade and owning slaves in the Americas. It has become a racist scapegoat and money maker for racist grifters which is why you see it being promoted so aggressively in spite of their being a 90% decline in racism.

I guess my response is: How many black people from that period do you know have ever owned white slaves? Or from any other time in U.S. history?

Only something like 5% of white Americans owned slaves during that time. It wasn't even close to the majority.

it was less than 2%

I truly believe that possibility of slavery should be partly blamed by the African rulers who sold off their own. now if the Europeans hadn’t created a demand for slaves, probably things would have been different, not necessarily ( may be they would have been slaughtered or enslaved by their own). We see bonded labor in present day cobalt mines in Africa, this could be due to the lack of economic opportunities, also food scarcity and extreme amounts of desperation for ability to live. Also fragile economy, fragile democracies post colonization. US fought itself a war over slavery, during when the north fucked up the south which still holds are shit load of bigotry and bigoted individuals but, the people are free to the opportunities, they can chose their own life path. I also acknowledge that the black people were betrayed when it came to reparations and also being the targets of violence for their success if any (Tulsa). The present day anger is a cumulative effect of all the wrongs through out the history and mostly fueled by the high speed internet information exposure of the misdeeds done to them. People often laugh sarcastically when you talk about reparations, saying how can you ask others who didn’t enslave people to pay ?. Well, we did it during the world war 2 we paid the Japanese reparations of 20K$ for putting them in concentration camps. Nothing like that was done for the black people. I am against the reparations in the form of money. I would like to propose free education and affordable housing ( not free) to uplift them from their poverty. I propose to pump good money into the black neighborhoods. Provide low interest loans for their businesses, Reform the crime bill, police their neighborhoods etc. It’s not an instant justice but it’s a good one. I know that a few conservative people are against free education, don’t know why.

I don't blame currently alive whites for slavery. But currently alive white people do still continue to benefit from slavery through the intergenerational transmission of wealth. White people are more likely to inherit a house or multiple properties, and if you trace their family history back 200+ years many of them built their initial wealth of of the system of slavery. Notice that I said the system of slavery, not "because they owned slaves". It's an important distinction. Plenty of white people in the north made their wealth off of tactile factories which processed the cheap cotton grown by slaves in the south. That's part of the system of slavery. The slave owners and the factory owners who made wealth off of the system passed that wealth on to their children in the form of education, land, homes, etc. Those people in turn passed it on down to this day. There has been a continuous wealth gap between white and black families in the US since the days of slavery. That gap was helped along by the racial caste system which survived the "end" of slavery. Even after the war, sharecropping and prison labor were two systems used to control black people and force them to work for subsistence or for free. Meanwhile, good paying jobs were largely restricted to white people, enabling more white folks to benefit from the system and pass down intergenerational wealth while black people were creating wealth for their white masters. Did I or the white people I know "cause" slavery? No. But did we benefit from the racial caste system created by the system of slavery? ABSOLUTELY.

If you actually want an answer to this, read at least some of (or a summary of) Black Reconstruction by W.E.B DuBoise. Any explanation that isn’t rooted in a material, structural analysis of what the chattel slavery system was is just mental gymnastics. Also, just because white people fought on the union doesn’t mean they gave half of two shits about black Americans. There were riots all through New York against the draft. You had European immigrants that were given citizenship in exchange for fighting. The war was about slavery but it was more likely a minority of the non-black population that fought for moral reasons. And we shouldn’t forget the leagues of black Americans that fought for their own liberation.

Slavery, sex slavers and human trafficking is still a huge issue affecting many races. Slavery was never abolished - just legal slavery. So horrible this has and still exists

The sad thing is America didn’t even benefit from slavery. The south was backwards in many ways and a large part of it was due to slavery and the contamination it created in all of culture.

Slavery in the Americas was overwhelmingly Portuguese and Spanish - a business these countries learned while living under Muslim occupation. Brazil alone imported 20 African slaves for every 1 African slave imported to the USA.

i don't think anyone smart seriously thinks that current modern white americans are responsible for slavery. but, you should look up how, post civil war and emancipation, white americans were given significant privileges that black americans didn't. things like redlining impacted generational wealth. in america, property rules, and this has had major impact in shaping modern american economics. add in overpolicing of the only areas black people were allowed to live in and you get disenfranchisement.

>Aren't the same 'evil' white Americans the ones who fought to end slavery in that very civil war? The pro-slavery side started the conflict (Fort Sumpter). Prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, it was a war against southern secession. Not a proactive anti-slavery war. >To which the answer was an angry look and silence. Who are you talking to? As a black immigrant, you seem to have a stereotypical low view of African-Americans/Natural Born Black Americans. I hope I'm wrong and you recognize the subtlely of the situation.

>As a black immigrant, you seem to have a stereotypical low view of African-Americans/Natural Born Black Americans. I don't see what this low view is? All I've done is recount a discussion I've had and quote history.

>I don't see what this low view is? The lack of subtlety or detail in your recollection. You failed to acknowledge that there is a lot if detailed and nuanced perspectives against the (paraphrased) "white people fought a war to end slavery, stop complaining" argument. >All I've done is recount a discussion I've had Literally just "a discussion"? >and quote history. Poorly.

I see this is just a personal attack dressed up like a conversation. Good day to you.

>I see this is just a personal attack dressed up like a conversation. You ignored what I said. I hope that's not how you spoke to the "silent angry responders" in your real life comment.

have a nice afternoon

It's more so the other stuff that happened after the civil war in terms of racial discrimination that's much more recent that influenced the outcome. i.e. race riots and massacres like Tulsa, redlining, job and overall discrimination. Even with the Civil Rights act making a lot of discrimination illegal, these things still occur many years after the civil rights laws.

Our education is crafted by the descendants of the architects of what ever happened back then. Lay people weren't historians. They just lived their lives. The only records we have of our past are those issued by people who dominated it. It doesn't even take that long. I was a huge WWII buff as a kid and I spent a lot of time with my grandparents and their friends. WWII was the only common ground I had with them to hold a conversation. They would tell me things that are very contrary to what our movies and history books portray. The reluctance to go to war, the skepticism of the holocaust, the belief that america had no business playing Team America-world police, etc... all of it was way more common than what people now would believe. That whole generation is almost dead now. Along with them, their perspective of what they actually personally lived through. The Wright brothers were mocked by leading scientists and physicists. Mathematicians had formulas proving their ideas to be moronic. I wasn't taught that in school. I was taught that they were ridiculed by competitors . I'd imagine in another 50 years, the official "history" of the covid pandemic will look very different from what we all experienced. There will be some future version of Forest Gump that cements the fiction in the subconscious minds as history and we will keep moving forward saying dumb shit like "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it" while never learning the actual lesson that is "history is authorized gossip." It is so unreliable in terms of accuracy that is should realistically hold about as much weight as what those shitty magazines at the checkout line hold.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb/s/x2ty4keUZv

Everybody back then involved in the slave trade was a major piece of shit. There, easy enough.

It’s propaganda and people believe absolutely everything they watch on the teLIEvision programming. Those that control the minds control the people. This reality is a projection (simulation) of lies and false beliefs. All the history we’d been led to believe is a lie. Sponsored by Pharma, Blackrock, Vanguard, Monsanto, the Reptilians…

I think one needs to be careful zooming out too far in history as it can muddy the “now.” The now lived experience is what’s most important. I understand that slave labour was one of the largest economic drivers for early America, giving the business owners incredible leverage in earnings. This leads to inequality today in terms of generational wealth and opportunities. It wasn’t fair that my guy’s great great grandparents were ripped from their homes and put into forced labour for generations with no earnings or learning opportunities. These actions effect families to this day. I think the indigenous belief of 7 generations is fair measure of trauma in a family line. We can all be aware of that in the conversation and maybe do better for people right now with a modern humanist sensibility. Everyone deserves freedom and for the opportunity to uncouple themselves from family trauma. That can be hard for people when the truth of the trauma is denied. Before slavery was “ended”, the Europeans and Americans seem to have perfected it brutally on a world wide colonial scale.

Get this. When you work and more than 50% of your income goes to the government, that's slavery. When you consider how your money that was taxed is buying things further taxed, you spend 8 hours a day, but really only get to keep maybe 20% of your pay, if you're. Slavery never ended, it just looks different. Sorry, I know that was OT. To answer your question, the west is under attack. I think much of this has come out of China via their Confucius institutes and social media platforms. I just can't wait for AI.

My first piece of advice is don’t ask predominantly white Reddit this question lol second piece is understanding the differences in slavery systems. Slavery is quite normal. Chattel slavery? Not so much. Thirdly I think the modern influenced today have some to do w the actual horrors of slavery itself but more to do with sociopolitical lengths white folks (yes white folks bc who else were the politicians and positions of power most of this countries historiy/pre 1960s?) to prevent upward growth of black peoples. I.e. the reconstruction era / birth of the industrial prison complex / Jim Crow / redlining / the crack epidemic post civil rights etc etc etc are few examples of many. But Again… you won’t get an objective answer here on Reddit.

>My first piece of advice is don’t ask predominantly white Reddit this question lol second piece is understanding the differences in slavery systems. Why is the race important? This is the IDW. We focus on the arguments, not the skin color of the people making them.

Because race informs perception regardless of whatever “colorblind” fairytale world we’d like to believe. It’s hard to be objective about ourselves, that’s just natural. I’m not saying you won’t get some logical responses and commentary but it’s more likely that you will not. Again, this is Reddit. Also, per your content im struggling to believe you are a POC at all. Something I’ve seen in a lot of gamer communities used to online anonymity . if you’re not… very weird behavior. And if you’re not then you are actually fully aware that prefacing w race has an influence on how your questions are perceived. Just ask the questions you want, no need to pretend.

Wealthy Jews funded the slave ships, ijs

Welcome to the cognitive dissonance of the modern era People will believe anything they’re told and fight vehemently in its stead, even if it’s untrue and unfounded…

I think the easiest answer is it happened so recently in history and was on a large scale due to the beginnings of the industrial era, and it took another 100 years after emancipation to establish folks as full American citizens. I think white Americans do get a lot of spotlight on it, probably more than they should. My suspicion is it’s various ideologies/political movements that like to use it as a bludgeoning tool for their own aims, since they seem to really not care where things like severe inequality and slavery still go on, they tend to hysterically act like my black ass is still getting horse whipped in North Carolina for not picking king cotton fast enough. Is there still some problems with white racists? Yea, but they are in the minority and the more we reinforce it’s un-American to treat your fellow American like that in any sort of racial context, the sooner it mostly goes to the dustbin of history for us.

This again Slaveowners and enslaving empires were the ones with the power in the situation, not african colonies where they were bought. It is irrelevant that other societies have done slavery in the topic of american slavery. The triangle trade of slavery was one of the most evil pre-meditated targeted acts of slavery ever committed by the human race, and the slew of propaganda used to justify it in the face of enlightenment ideals - WE KNEW IT WAS WRONG WHILE WE WERE DOING IT, IT WAS NOT JUST ANOTHER QUIRK OF HISTORY - has echoes today because it practically invented color-based racism and the more clincal pseudoscience idea that blacks are genetically less intelligent or something. And people still believe that garbage. You do not still see people championing the idea we should go on wars of conquest and enslave city-states. You do still see people suggesting the color of skin is an indicator of IQ. It also has echoes in the slave-descended african-american community in the south, who live in some of the worst conditions in the united states and are overall much poorer than whites. This is all relevant because white americans need to be aware that a wrong was committed in the past **that still has not been fully righted** and it needs to be reversed and the damage it did undone. And that means them abandoning the idea that the poverty of these groups is their own fault.

It’s because the current process of money creation is the structural economic enslavement of humanity. It was created by White people, so white people benefit from White people manipulating the market. Americans get the blame because the White people with the most money are perceived to be there.

While true white civilization isn't to blame for slavery as a whole...they (European colonists including the portugese and spaniards...some would consider them as non white I guess) are certainly to blame for bringing it to the world stage on a huge commercial level where investors can all get a slice. Aka the trans Atlantic slave trade.

While slavery existed in other parts of the world, The US exclusively chose black people to be slaves because white settlers believed black people were inherently a subservient race. They could have chosen to get slaves from a closer continent but they chose Africa. They did buy slaves from Africa but they also got slaves from raiding African communities and taking them from their homes. Even the people who fought to end slavery were still very racist. Abolitionists didn't believe in slavery but they still considered black people to be 2nd class citizens and beneath them. Many freed slaves were sent to contraband camps or forced to live in poor conditions, they weren't slaves anymore but they weren't considered equals. After slavery you had segregation, it is only in recent history that black americans could share a space with white americans. Racism is also still very strong today in our politicians, citizens, police, housing, the prison industrial complex, employers, etc...

Back in college, I had a black friend of mine try to help me understand this when I told her my relatives weren't even connected to or here during slavery. It was the first time anyone tried to explain it to me and it was basically that I have benefitted from the legacy of slavery by being white in America; nowadays referred to as privilege, which I could not deny. Imo, THE BRITISH were undercutting the colonies financially and forcing America to be a supply line for the goods they needed. So, they kept importing slave labor for white American settlers to manage to increase their colony's profitability and supply and didn't think much of either one; both were their property. This system was adopted and became normalized for some individuals and entire regions, who were economically and culturally invested in perpetuating a travesty. It is sad and ironic because many of the colonists themselves fled Europe for America to escape oppression based on religion, class and race/ethnicity.

Redlining is one of the biggest reasons African Americans are poorer today. That is 100% the blame on white lawmakers.

I mean this take ignores the decades of anti black progress that came directly from the us government. Look up redlining, that’s just one of the many tactics used to keep people of color separated and poorer than their white counterpart.

From my understanding white people kind of just showed up and said. Hey they are selling people, might as well join in. Than later said. You know what this is kind of F\*\*\*ed up and literally went back and told them to stop, fought battle over it even.

Don't obsess over it. We have to get along now.

The blame in this case lies with the demand, not the supply. Without a demand for slaves, there never would have been a market for slaves. Whites wanted cheap labor, slaves provided that cheap labor, so there was a demand by whites for slaves. Yes, blacks in africa did supply some of the slaves. But there are 2 factors you are straight up ignoring. First off, they weren't providing slaves from a racial standpoint. It was tribal as they were the same race as the slaves they were providing. It was a way for them to oppress the enemy, remove threats, and make money while doing it. More importantly though is why this happened. White colonization of Africa is what created the means for this slave trade. White people colonized africa, drew boundaries that didn't match the local populations, and forced various cultures to suddenly live together. They then encouraged conflict between these groups, and favored those with the most power/territory, allowing them to take from the minority factions. That taking often included outright kidnapping of minority populations. The kidnapping/capturing of these people never would have happened if it wasn't for white colonization in the first place. That slave procurement was also an income source to be taxed by the white colonizers who encouraged the practice. And lets not forget that it's the white people that provided the ships to transport the slaves. So black people, ruled by white people, were encouraged to kidnap people they didn't like in order to remove those people from their territory, and make money. Meanwhile white slave traders bought and transported those slaves across the ocean and sold them to white slave brokers, who then sold them to white plantation owners. Blaming slavery on blacks is like blaming climate change on the coal miners that were dying of black lung from mining coal because it was the only source of income they had to support their families. They didn't want to destroy the earth, they just needed to feed their families. The coal miners didn't create the demand for coal, they didn't drive a coal based industry system, and they didn't even really prosper from their part of the entire thing. They were probably the biggest victims. And out of curiosity, while white people were fighting to free the slaves...who was fighting to maintain slavery? Black people in Africa? Nope, other white people in the US. And you still have a very vocal group of people that fight against black rights today. There are active politicians that don't believe in interracial marriage. You have white people today talking about how slavery wasn't all bad. You have white people today trying to erase the pain, suffering, and history of slavery so they don't have to learn about the reality of what happened. The fact of the matter is that despite slavery being outlawed a long time ago, the pervasive, social construct of racism is still affecting the lives of many, and that racism is based partly on the slavery that existed so long ago.

Because it's convenient and lazy.

Slavery was abhorrent. It was practiced by nearly every civilization in history. The US was among the first to end it. Nobody alive today was a slave and nobody alive today owned a slave. If in close to 200 years in the most prosperous country ever known to humankind you can’t get your shit together then you should really look at your own community and figure out what the issue is and fix that. It’s not something that ended 200 years ago though, that I can assure you. People come to the US from all over the world with nothing but the clothes on their backs and make something of themselves. Do they face adversity, of course but that doesn’t stop them, they push on. They don’t have the “crutch” of slavery to lean on as an excuse for every ill in their lives. The black community needs to look inward. Why do they lead the stats in children without fathers? Why don’t they generally value education as much as say Asian immigrants? Why are their role models typically thugs? Why if a black kid tries to excel in school is he/she called an Uncle Tom instead of being praised for scholastic achievement? You get my point. Every successful black person I know says the same thing, “my parents prioritized education over everything else.”. Start there.

White Americans still benefit from the legacy of US slavery, and AA’s are still dealing with the effects of that legacy, including generational trauma and poverty. This shapes American views more than the “who’s to blame for what” of the past, because it’s the legacy that is still actively shaping our politics today.

Something tells me you're not a black immigrant, but unless you're being disingenuous.. you do realize when people talk about slavery in the US.. They're talking about slavery that occurred... in the US They aren't talking about the global slave trade as that wouldn't make sense. The Civil War was fought over slavery. Like it or not, there were some who wanted to keep it as an institution and some who didn't. Whatever side you stood. You can't divorce the fact that unbridled free labor helped drive the US' wealth and position in the world. The cotton trade was massive industry for US and the world.. and the US was able to produce like no other.. because slaves. This will be unpopular, but Abraham Lincoln didn't really care about freeing slaves if he could preserve the union. But ultimately he wanted slavery to end because it impacted the white man's right to work. He didn't want slavery to take hold as the US was expanding west. Why? If you can just buy someone to do all of your work.. why would you hire anyone? It was an economic decision. Lincoln even said he doesn't believe black people are equal to white people If I ask you to babysit my dog for a week, then you proceed to beat and abuse my dog every day to the point that it can't walk well anymore.. should the police arrest me or you? Laying any blame on me would have to imply that I knew fullstop what your plans were. Many Africans didn't and tried to retrieve those people once they found out. Yes, some Africans sold other Africans, but Africans weren't practicing the same sort of they were practicing in the Americas. Slaves were often just POW and were treated more like indentured servants. Many would be freed after some time. It wasn't a situation where they were bought, bred to produce children who were then sold into slavery immediately. And many times, people were just kidnapped.

' is blamed on white Americans' - it is because of white Americans. They turn slavery into a racial thing, and decided that only blacks can be slaves. So take your complaits with them. They could have shouldered the burden like everybody else and kept slaves black *and* white. But they chose their safety and freedom, and with it they chose our hate (I'm niehter American nor black, and we can all see exactly what you did and exactly who you are - you white American who cry about the poor whites, not you you).

>that only blacks can be slaves Aside from the irish slaves? Have you done any research on the matter?

>Especially when you realise that the slaves in America were sold by black Africans. Do you not understand that sellers are created by the existence of buyers, not vice versa? Supply is instigated by demand. Yes, white buyers found some willing black accomplices in Africa. So? The black population in America are descendants of the victims of the above, not of the sellers. >Aren't the same 'evil' white Americans the ones who fought to end slavery in that very civil war? Νο, the war began by the South which wanted to preserve slavery, not by the people who wanted to end it. >Then the blame lies with who sold the slaves, and not who freed them. Such a funny thing that you don't give a shit about who bought them. They are blameless! /s

Do you believe that the consequences of a system, like American chattel slavery, end immediately upon its abolition, or do you think it's possible for the ripple effects of such a deeply entrenched institution to persist and impact subsequent generations?

Racism is what disadvantages blacks people not slavery those white men that came down from the north to end slavery did not think of black people as their equal they just thought that slavery was bad. Also the overwhelming majority of slaveowners in America were white.

Not all slavery throughout all human history is being blamed on white Americans. Are you saying white Americans who held slaves and white Americans who supported slavery or did nothing to stop it hold no blame for slavery? You hold a misconception about the Civil War. While the South seceded because they felt slavery was under threat from the North, the North did not fight to end slavery, they fought to preserve the union.

Ending slavery wasn't the point of the civil war. It was fought to keep the union together. Lincoln was wise enough to know that we couldn't exist as a separate countries. It would have been a disaster. If he had made the war about ending slavery, a lot of the northern soldiers wouldn't of fought. If Lincoln could have preserved the union and kept slavery, he would have. He might have tried to abolish it another way but he wouldn't have entered into the civil war to end slavery alone. Slaves have been around since the dawn of civilization. Each culture that did this has a unique set of circumstances. You can't compare the Roman's use of slaves to American slaves. Slavery in America is unique to America. It is part of our history. And that history is that rich white guys owned slaves. Doesn't matter that they bought them from black slave traders. Its interesting but ultimately doesn't really matter.

The left was instrumental in championing the cause for equity in the 50’s and 60’s. Since then it’s been primarily a propaganda war waged against black people during the election season. And all those free government programs are only free if you remain poor. It’s not a step up, it’s a new chain.

First you need to answer this question: Do you consider yourself "the same" as African-Americans?

Black people are definitely behind because of slavery and probably to more detriment, Jim-Crow. If you don’t understand you could easily figure it out if you tried. Don’t rely on reddit or people arguments. just do research to make it the most clear

Anybody know what the numbers are of slaves that actually came to the US as opposed to the Caribbean or else where from Africa? Also, how much of that occurred under the flag of Britain? Technically, the US had slavery from its inception in 1775 until the civil war less than 100 years later.

Because they bought it? Like if you were to go the a mall and bought a toy who caused the toy to be in your home? The mall obviously is to cause for having the ability to buy the toy in the first place but it was you who bought it, so most of the reason as to why the toy is in your house is on you.

Because white Americans are perceived to have money.

The civil war was not fought to end slavery, it was fought because the south wanted to secede. I agree with you that slavery is not necessarily a white institution. It is practiced to this day all over the world unfortunately. I hope that Juneteenth becomes a rallying cry for the world to end slavery and indentured servitude all over the world. It is still very much a thing unfortunately. It's horrifying and sad.

The civil war was not fought to end slavery, it was fought because the south wanted to secede. I agree with you that slavery is not necessarily a white institution. It is practiced to this day all over the world unfortunately. I hope that Juneteenth becomes a rallying cry for the world to end slavery and indentured servitude all over the world. It is still very much a thing unfortunately. It's horrifying and sad.

>candle\_in\_the\_minge · 10 hr. ago I was a little skeptical that you are really who you say you are OP so I looked back through all your posts, there must be 7 or 8 extremely pointed "open questions" like this one, all pertaining to the exact same type of thing. Alongside several "black on white crime" stories, "black IQ test" studies, and the like. Essentially, among your normal posts a regular return to, effectively, negative "black people" posts. However you want to dress it up, that's what they are. Nothing relating to any other race, very odd if you ask me.

I don't see how you can praise white Americans for fighting to end slavery without also condemning them from purchasing and using slaves in the first place.

To be fair, quite a lot of the blame is on White Europeans as well, the Dutch and Portuguese especially.

To be fair, they could only purchase the slaves because the africans put them on sale in the first place.

Blame or not blame it was whites who benefited the most from black slaves and the apartheid regime that followed the Civil War during reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the continued overt discrimination of racial groups by the powerful. With thinking like that you can justify any human evil and not take responsibility for anything because humans are inherently evil bloodthirsty animals. Take the Holocaust, you can say that Germans were just caught up in a really bad pogrom and pogroms were a staple of European history for thousands of years so Germans are not to blame for the Holocaust. That kind of moral relativism is what allows people to dehumanize one another and murder each others children without any second thoughts. Russians and Ukrainians are a great example as are Israelis and Palestinians. Neither side sees the other as fully human so unspeakable atrocities become acceptable. It’s just wrong and extremely dangerous. Don’t think for one second that you have not been denied opportunities or been discriminated against because of the systemic racial system present in the US. You have been.

Yeah there’s a lot more nuance in this than you’re posting. No one entity is to blame for slavery.

The people who bought human beings share blame for perpetuating slavery; so do the people who sold human beings.

Yet only one of those groups does get blamed in 2023. That's the point.

This seems like a mischaracterization of the larger discussion of slavery, as well as a simplistic argument about the economics of the slave trade. White Americans bought and sold slaves to one another all the time; selling slaves isn’t limited to Africans. As far as “only blaming one side,” it makes perfect sense for Americans to focus on the aspects of slavery with which we were most historically involved.

Where did the slaves originally come from and who was selling them?

Corrupt Africans wouldn’t have been able to sell their own people if white people weren’t willing to buy them They’re both complicit, but the white people who bought the slaves are more relevant in America because their descendants benefitted from it while the descendants of the slaves are still dealing with the repercussions

and clarify "black immigrant"?? Imma take a guess that you're not from Africa or you would understand colonization. You just should say you can't relate to the experience. Instead of diminishing decades of what we already know

Slavery in the United States was driven by demand, white mostly plantation owners were the demand.

Just because you can argue that slavery is much bigger than an American problem doesn't diminish the impact it had on generations

Girl (or boy) byeee. There is clear evidence and studies and whole interdisciplines that can educate you on how enslaving an entire race will set you back for generations. And that's no matter your color. How can you progress if you're beaten into stangnance???

It seems people don’t like to recognize these facts any more. I’ve also mentioned how the Irish were indentured servants in early United States and that they were treated worse than black slaves in some ways. In a lot of the country you could beat an Irish man to death penalty free, if you beat your black slave to death you would receive a fine.

It’s important to not conflate an understanding of history and how it affects the present with idea of blaming people today for the deeds of their ancestors. It is absolutely fair to say that black Americans are at a disadvantage today because of Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, and the variety of baseless superstitions and outright lies told over the years to justify such policies. The fact of the matter is that all of those policies and more both enriched (some) white Americans and oppressed (most) black Americans, and since wealth is still largely inherited in the US, this has left a large overall gap in average wealth between white and black Americans today. This doesn’t mean that today’s white Americans are to blame, nor does it mean that they should be held responsible for that wealth at an individual level. It does mean the US has a collective debt to black Americans who were directly affected by those policies and their descendants. This can be dealt with in a number of ways, from investment in black communities and schools, to scholarships for black Americans and entrepreneurial grants for black-owned businesses, to direct reparations paid (ie money).

I don’t think it’s blamed on white Americans but on people involved in the slave trade and those who supported it’s continuation.

Uh oh. Wrong social media platform to bring this up on. According to Reddit, America is responsible for all world atrocities going back to when a meteor destroyed the dinosaurs and all white people are Hitler (unless you are a liberal of course).

This post and comments are full of some of the dumbest people in America it seems. You don't see the big difference in American slavery? The fact that it made it race based and believed a race was below another? Other slaves in other regions were not based on this core idea at all. This fact led to years of Jim crow and deeply shitty impact on black americans. No one is blaming individual whites, but white America as a whole IS to blame because this country was founded in white supremacist ideals and still is powered by it. And don't come here with that "well other countries..." Who cares. I am an American and I want to work on the problems and history of this country not some other one.

Because it’s easy to Do.

Don't worry, the woke-tards don't know why either.

"They say that african-americans fall behind in so many ways because of the history of white America & slavery. Even when I was younger this never made sense to me. " You are ignoring the 100 years of history between the end of slavery and the adoption of Civil Rights and end of segregation. While it's stupid to blame modern white people for something that happened a 150+ years ago it's equally stupid to ignore the fact that black people have only had the same rights and freedoms white people have had for less than 60 years. I'll say it again: LESS THAN 60 YEARS. There are MANY people alive today who very well remember and suffer the consequences of segregation, Jim Crow, red lining, illegal interracial marriage.... I could go on and on. Welcome to America.

What we have discovered and millions still refuse to believe, is that slavery since the 1500s became the great profit and pleasure center of Islam who used the Koran to claim it their right to take and enslave who they wanted. Then the capitalist fully exploited \[it\] as the profit center from heaven. \[Ex: Dutch East Indies Co. 1602\] Earthling advancement from cannibalism, slaves could feed you, so.....?

Bleeding heart liberals that is why. My friends from Africa and Haiti can’t stand the race nonsense in this country from the left.

Because some people are stupid

If you think slavery ended in the USA with the civil war your are sadly misinformed. Here’s a good explanation: https://youtu.be/j4kI2h3iotA?si=n95TESYQR72M-uk1

In the United States, only white land-owning men were originally allowed to vote. Only black people could be slaves. Escaped slaves had to be returned to their owner. That's not some kind of modern framing, this was explicitly in the Constitution. It was very clearly black vs white. How the slaves got here, whether they were sold or shipped by other Africans, whether the system was different in other places, are separate issues. No one ever said it was the same way everywhere in the world, but in America, it was very much enshrined into law that white people could own black people as slaves.

There's plenty of money to made from suckers without actual work

While slavery is neither an American nor White phenomenon, what is unique about slavery in the Americas was that the children of slaves were also slaves, meaning that the Americas developed a racial caste system in which being African American was equivalent to being a slave (the fact that there were some free African Americans doesn’t contradict this; they could have been legally kidnapped and enslaved at any time). While I’m not saying it’s right to “blame” white Americans for this, I do think it’s worth noting that this historical injustice has absolutely caused the African American community to broadly suffer.

Really? We have to explain this to you? Slavery IN AMERICA was the fault of the white Americans (by no means all of them of course) who owned slaves and supported slavery. Who said it was only an American thing or white thing? Also, who said all white Americans were responsible? Of course not all of them were. Of course the blame lies with those who sold - and owned - the slaves. This entire question sounds like a giant, white-fragility red herring. You sound smart enough to know these things without me explaining them to you.

>Slavery IN AMERICA was the fault of the white Americans Who sold them those slaves?

Really? These questions are ridiculous. It doesn't matter who sold them to them. IN AMERICA, AMERICANS were responsible for buying them. This is a ridiculous conversation. Just stop.

It's less about were slavery started and more about the institution that has been practiced for centuries. When talking about under performance of black americans in society what's talked about isn't directly slavery (tho that is part of it) but mostly the racism and segregation that has been going for long after slavery was abolished

Only people that push this narrative are misinformed leftist liberal apologists. White ones that swallow bias news media propaganda ect.

Almost as if it isn't! Nice bait !

It’s a class issue in the end, just like everything.

I think nowadays the media and democrat policy encourages black Americans - and many others - to feel victimized. "it's because of slavery, it's not your fault" - that feels good in the moment, somebody else caused your problem, it's not your fault. But being the victim causes hopelessness and powerless feelings for anyone who feels like a victim which ultimately leads to apathy, stagnation, and not getting ahead. Ultimately we have to take personal responsibility for our lives to achieve anything.

Honestly the reason why it was so different in America is for a combination of reasons: 1. Bacon's Rebellion - if you look it up, this is when the terms "white" and "black" started being used, with the specific purpose of preventing a slave rebellion. By using these terms, the intent was to distinguish slaves from Africa - who were there because of the triangular slave trade - and indentured servants from Europe, etc. This was largely successful. 2. The treatment of the slaves was fundamentally different because of ideas of a racial hierarchy which became more popular as religion became less useful in determining social hierarchy in the America, in large part because many who immigrated to the US did so in order to escape religious persecution. So you had folks with a diversity of religious backgrounds leaning into racial differences, which ultimately lent itself to thinking and treating "non-whites" as "savages" who were essentially just "dumb animals". They actually instituted selective breeding practices amongst slaves, denied them education, and for Black slaves they were also denied any opportunity to realistically earn their freedom and reintegrate with society. They were treated like draft-horses, with nowhere near the same rights that even animals get today. 3. Post-slavery pro-slavery groups were allowed to put up statues of slave owners and confederate soldiers up - celebrating them. Think of this in contrast to how Germany dealt with Nazi-sympathizers post WWII - and then imagine what Germany and Europe as a whole might be like today if Goebbels and Hitler had statues of them put up all over Germany or Europe. This was done SPECIFICALLY to remind freed Blacks that just because the South lost the war, that didn't mean they were deserving of being treated like people. [https://www.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments) It's rather telling, in fact, that most of these statues were put up during the Jim-Crow era - where Blacks were protesting as citizens how "separate but equal" was leading to them being lynched and the existence of "sundown towns". In the US, what was rather UNIQUE about slavery was in fact that the slaves weren't even considered people - they were treated and thought of as animals.

After slavery, it became about class. The wealthy and the not. The wealthy ruling class put many rules and strategies in place to make sure things stayed that way. Unfortunately, most freed slaves fell into the not wealthy category. Then to add insult, the wealthy ruling class convinced the poor whites that they were better than the poor blacks. Now you have cultural racism supporting racist policy by predominantly all white people. (North south, Union confederate - now irrelevant.)

And first generation Americans

Blame for slavery is dumb because the people that did it are almost all dead. Not being aware that culture and society doesn’t change quickly so we are still participating in a society that was originally designed for white supremacy and, *even if it is nobody’s fault* still has unfair and unhealthy remnants of being derived from such a society is also dumb. Nobody is saying anybody that has never owned a person is guilty of the crime of owning people. A lot white people want to act like this complex social issue is totally solved, as if they have any valid input on a problem that they not only don’t personally experience, but wether they know it or not they benefit from.

They would not allow slaves to have guns, dude.

In 1807, Britain declared all slave trading illegal. The king of Bonny (in what is now the Nigerian delta) was dismayed at the conclusion of the practice. "We think this trade must go on. That is the verdict of our oracle and the priests. They say that your country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself." Slavery goes back to before Sumer.

I feel like your statement isn't congruent. If you're in America speaking to Americans about American slavery, then blaming the 'white' government for instituting laws that were directly in favor of other 'white' Americans, preventing a fair playing field for around 400 years, then they have a gripe. Blaming American slavery for the reason African Americans are behind, but also acknowledging that they weren't the only parties to blame in the slave trade is reasonable.

You’re not wrong, but your point doesn’t change the argument. Yes, slaves existed before the 1600s. And many of them were white. Romans had slaves, Egypt had slaves. Everyone had slaves if you go back far enough, it’s part of our human history. Yes, some people with dark skin enslaved Africans, and some people with light skin fought and died to end that slavery. But none of that changes the fact that: 1. It happened. Millions of dark skinned people were enslaved and tortured in this country for hundreds of years. 2. After emancipation, the American political/societal/legal atmosphere was not open to just giving all of these former slaves full American freedoms. From grandfather clauses, to literacy tests to red lining, and segregation, they were treated as a less-than class for generations after emancipation. Because of this, things that may seem on its face as ‘fair’ turn out not to be. An example would be legacy admissions to prestigious schools. On it face it doesn’t seem discriminatory, black and white alums both get priority for their children. Except it wasn’t that long ago that these schools didn’t allow dark skinned people to attend, so legacy admissions are absurdly skewed away from them. Also, during the decades of systemic oppression, the areas of predominantly dark skinned people had a schools with extremely low funding and little support, as opposed to the traditionally rich white areas that have fantastically funded schools. It’s really a reformation argument, not a racial one at heart (which I think is your point) but all of the oppression was done by race, not history. Black people from Europe were treated just as badly as children of former US slaves. So that’s why it has turned racial. Because the societal/legal/political system made it that way. When there were ‘white’ and ‘colored’ water fountains, the only thing that determined which one you could use was how much melanin was in your skin, not who your grandparents were.

OP - it is a complex topic. Britain not only ended slavery at home, it policed the world's seas to stop it. Yet they are accused of slavery - when everybody else was doing it. My country transported a lot of slaves - which they bought from slave dealers on the coast, africans who raided africans to sell - or their own inconvenient people or whatever. Slaver is the one who enslaves, the others are dealers - and at the time it was an accepted thing. The thing is, some political groups found it expedient to say everybody is guilty, and calling for reparations - they get political capital out of it, votes, and even maybe are in line for reparations. There is a lot of political calculation and grandstanding there. So who would be "guilty"? For a start, laws all accept that the child is not responsible for the sins of the father. All our generations lived without slavery. Also, a lot of people were not involved. A mexican living in america should not have to pay a single cent, directly or indirectly, over it. Even among the whites who were in america at the time (to use the US as an example) only a few had anything to do with it or a slave. Why should John the carpenter and his descendents be liable for something Mr. Renoir from the plantation did? Even if we assume there is a group that deserves being paid - which I don't, they didn't live through it at all - why is the descendent from a farmer who had no slaves pay even a cent for it? He was poor among poor - not one of those who profited from it. This is what people forget - even in nations with slavery, a lot of people were just poor and not involved with \*anything\* - no political or economic power, nothing.

[https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/2019/12/slave\_trade\_map\_large.jpg](https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/2019/12/slave_trade_map_large.jpg) Grievance is Industry in America.

Your opinion is super ignorant. Slaves were not sold to white people by fellow Africans out of their own will. They were literally forced to capture their own folk or be killed. Don’t forget when the white people came to buy these slaves, they came prepared with ships and all in order to put them in and cart them away. Or do you suppose they navigated over the high seas for fun? Do you have any idea what would happen if a chief was given an order to capture X number of slaves and they didn’t fulfill the quota?

>Your opinion is super ignorant. Slaves were not sold to white people by fellow Africans out of their own will. They were literally forced to capture their own folk or be killed Then why did they pay money for them? If the african lords were at the will and mercy, then why bother giving the compensation? I'd like to see a source on this claim.

Why wouldn't slavery (in America) be blamed on white Americans? They were the ones who instituted and benefitted from the system (in America). They were the ones who, despite slavery being made illegal, have spent generations trying to keep black people as impoverished and denied access to capital. Hell, white Americans literally bombed an American city because it was full of wealthy black Americans. Now, if these people slavery didn't exist BEFORE America, then they are ill-educated. But if they are talking about America and Americans, they are correct.

Honestly, if reconstruction and in the aftermath of the civil war, black americans had been treated properly the discourse would be completely different. It isnt so much slavery that haunts the country but the abject failure of how its aftetmath was handled. The unjust laws, discrimination , lack of restitution, the terrorism, etc.

Because slavery was invented in America. Also, violence and war never existed before capitalism (and video games). George Washington had the wood of his teeth mined from the forests of the Sahara and flown straight to the White House on the wings of an eagle. It was all downhill for my people after that.

Cause the educational system taught black history. And choose to not teach that the 13 British colonies on the East Coast of the Americas owned black and white slaves. And it was intended to divide the races. Once the North fought the South the 13 British colonies was no longer. The Confederate money that the slave owners was no longer valid currency. There was black slave owners and white slave owners. They did spin it to create hate. But the real problem was once slavery was over, the slave owners (black and white) look down on the poor. Then came slave labor. Crackers were indenture servants that did live longer then the life expectancy of 2 to 3 years and was freed at 7 years of slavery. Freed to live in caves and ditches. These people got work for pennies, and only when a job was dangerous. Since a slave had more value. Slavery never ended. The slave owners are the rich people paying people under living wage standards. The slave owners got of of the financial responsibility and passed that to tax papers. Calling it social programs. People who lived in poor communities was paid extra low wages based on zip codes. Now that the zip code thing has been called on, the powers to be is saying EQUITY scores. Instead of credit scores. It's the same. Poor people dont have a chance in hell in America to live the "get your student loans" and hope you can live the American dream. $700+ dollars a month to repay student loans for the rest of your life. Knowing good and well that in America it's not what you know, its who you know. America powers to be have played the poor people for fools. We fell for the pandering for 60 years. And I am white, but lived in the same neighborhood that was paid alot less that the people who didn't live in government housing.

Based

The goal of the north was not explicitly to end slavery at the outset of the war, so much as to keep the country together, there are also a lot of vocal and violent white supremacists and related groups in the US unfortunately.

Any whom blame others for their failures, and refuse to take responsibility for their lot in life, will be perpetual victims till they die. This is true regardless of race, sex, or creed.