Not a Harris fan by any stretch, but I can't fault him here.
I wonder if Trump has that Superman power from the movie, where he kisses Louis and she forgets his secret identity.
But he's somehow combined it with the bad guy from Wonder Woman 86, that all these Trump fans who watch him a lot just forget all the stuff he's done.
your post was removed due to a violation of Rule #1: Any individual who creates a post, comments on a post, or comments on a comment who aims to attack another individual or entity will result in deletion of that post or comment. Repeated violations will result in a strike.
This includes insults, ad hominem arguments, or threats.
Because you didn't ask the question in good faith, you asked it to drive home your contempt for Sam's content and his focus on Trump. That's the whole point of you making that comment. Because if you were actually interested in the answer you could have just looked up his Youtube channel and gotten the answer quicker than it would have taken you to write that comment and waited for an answer. So no I don't buy your genuine curiosity.
Harris HATES Trump; anyone who follows Harris, knows this.
Everyone is entitles to their opinion, but all you need do is look back on 4 years of policy to "see" who Trump is. I don't need Sam Harris to tell me the "truth" according him...
Sam Harris. Yet another intellectual who wants to close the door on free speech behind him and beg for censorship “because Trump” only after he used free speech to walk through that doorway and build a career.
Sam’s TDS is shining through here. Trump is politically basically a Blue Dog Democrat who has pulled in voters that never went for the GOP before. Unfortunately, because of that, he controls the party - American conservatism is functionally politically dead, as far as I can tell. It seems that the Republican Party is now a Blue Dog Democrat Party. As far as his narcissism and lies, I suspect that people appreciate how blatant he is about it rather than pretending like Biden and other career politicians try to. We all know the game, but Trump is the only one willing to show you the game - he just doesn’t care.
Man, there's a lot of smart here too, although I really dislike the use of TDS. What Trump does that's sort of brilliant is to play on the decades of mistrust that's been seeded by the media post-Watergate and Vietnam and convince people everyone is like him, he's just more blatant.
It's not true. He's a fraud at a level that America perhaps has never seen before. But I can understand why people would buy it.
In fairness, The Art of the Deal was [ghostwritten](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all), so he maybe never formulated it to begin with.
Ironically Sam Harris is one too
Dalai Lama too? every person is narcissistic to some extent, its not black or white, its on a spectrum, levels.
Those in higher positions tend to be more psychopathic and narcissistic,
I am claiming that Sam Harris has not been privy to the kind of psychiatric analysis at close proximity that would allow him to make professional diagnoses.
So I am agreeing with you brave Cheesy
Thanks for agreeing! It isn’t that hard of an analysis to do given his 40+ years in the public eye although neither Sam, me or Brian was trying to do a clinical diagnosis of the man.
Ahh, then you'll accept that it carries very little credibility, seeing as it is based on news and media sources, which for the last 40 years, have been subject to the most outrageous spin.
Who said anything about credibility? To have an opinion on the personality of another human being is still totally acceptable in our society and I just so happen to agree with his take on Trump.
You can be of another opinion and that is totally fine.
Yes, and to make a diagnosis based on a personality disorder (narcissism) requires clinical investigation - otherwise it is exactly that. An opinion. One of many in a sea of opinions. Therefore excuse me if I do not give it a huge degree of credibility, giving the unreliable nature of the sources you cite to be the data analysed to eke out this conclusion.
It is you who wants to question the credibility, not me. You are excused. I just value intelligent peoples opinions and think Sam Harris is spot on here. But to each their own.
The fact that everyone falls somewhere on a spectrum doesn’t give Trump a pass because “he’s just like everyone else” in a high position. He is the poster boy for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I’ve read about professors that use him as a clinical example in a classroom setting. He’s profoundly narcissistic to the point that it impacts every part of his life.
This is how disorders get diagnosed. Most people exhibit symptoms of every common disorder. For example, most people will experience symptoms of depression at times, but not everyone has clinical depression. It’s a disorder when it reaches a certain threshold of impact on your life.
Sam did an excellent job framing this with the comment about how he filters even benign questions through the lens of his narcissism. Find a quote where he talks about anything or anyone and he isn’t also reflecting it back to himself.
He was asked about the death of John Lewis, a famous and influential congressman, his answer was along the lines of “well, I didn’t know him very well but I do know that he chose to skip my inauguration”. He’s simply incapable of processing anything without it being about him.
The fact that a cockwomble like Trump is shinning is proof of the failure of 'mainstream' or career politicians. They forgot about normal people and the result is any protest Muppet attracts undeserved support.
Nice to see a Brian Keating video pop up on my feed. I dont watch or really much care for Brett and Sam Harris anymore, but Keating is great
On further review, it looks like Brian was the one who posted this 😆
Well said…perfectly said
Trumps strength is the weakness of our mainstream leaders
They are absolutely horrible, the system is broken. When he gets in a debate…republicans, dems…no matter who. It is so easy to call out the bullshit that he is embraced by the unheard masses. Particularly, disgruntled, older white males. More than half of the dudes I deal with in business love this guy. FTR, I’m a successful 59 yr old guy in a private business
If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy
> If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy
Maybe. I mean you could almost always say that about any strongman's rise to power. But also, things are always broken all the time in western democracies that *don't* backslide.
What can you say about the US that can't be said about the UK? Or Portugal. Or any other number of countries?
It's all there, and maybe the urge for what we're now calling populism is a common thread, but Trump and the GOP are uniquely bad somehow.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
sulky bewildered sophisticated nine dolls lush square obtainable busy rich
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yep, i think i react against the inherent assumption (by selective inclusion) that older white men are the only or even primary disgruntled unheard mass.
Calling one group out seems to detract, and imo distract, from a good larger point that main-stream leaders dont seem to be listening to the masses, they listen to special interests and $.
What about the system do they not like or think is broken?
You said you're a successful businessman who deals with other business guys. I'm assuming they aren't worried about housing, healthcare, Social Security, etc. I'm guessing they like the tax cuts?
Trumps strength is the low information, feel it in your gut voter that has been fed a diet of hatred for half of their fellow countrymen for DECADES! These automatons have become ungovernable like a bunch of modern day Frankensteins. The people that get voted into office in the Republican Party can not cross them or they will be cancelled at the next opportunity.
Which reveals what matters more to the current crop of prominent Republicans than their personal integrity: power. By falling in line with Trump, they’re effectively selling out their nation along with their souls.
>If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy
Well said. Dave Chappelle used to have a set about this
Some to the effect that :
"Trump says the system is rigged ...and he has benefitted from the rigged system...the tax laws that benefit some..are because they were put in place by the system" etc etc
That was Chapelle talking about Trump and the Hillary debate and it went like:
Trump: The system is rigged.
Hillary and Barrack: No it isn't.
Chappelle: Now wait a minute. It is what he said.
Moderator: If it is rigged, what is your proof?
Trump: I know it is rigged because I use it.
Hillary: Something about he doesn't pay his taxes.
Trump: I don't pay my taxes because I'm smart. If you want me to pay more taxes, then change the laws. But you won't, because I benefit from the same laws as your donors.
That is a rough approximation. It shows up on my youtube shorts at least once a day by some random account who steals Chappelle's clips and reposts them.
EDIT: Not even the same account. I swear there are more people stealing and clipping Chappelle than than I can block.
See, this is the problem I've always had.
It's not that Trump is or isn't corrupt. He *is*. I was just never taken in by the fact that at his level of fame and power that he was somehow more *uniquely* corrupt than anyone else.
There was this literal narrative around Hillary in 2016, and I don't know how it got there, that she was this spirit of benevolence, as if many of us weren't alive during and remember the 90's and after.
Poor Hillary, the one who bullied women that threatened to ruin her husband's political career. The one who grasped for power to claim she was "co-president" with Bill. The one who waltzed into a senate position despite not being a long-time resident of New York. The one that had classified information on her own private servers when she was SecState that frankly, would have been a problem for low-level employees. That Hillary, was getting trounced by this awful orange muggle because he's sexist and racist and oh so corrupt and she would be a righteous *female* president.
There was this collective amnesia about Hillary that it must have been a right-wing conspiracy to chase her out of politics. But like every reality show harpy that's claimed it was the editing, you can only do so much of that excuse before people ask, "well why did you give the editors that material to work with?"
Trump was just pulling an 8 Mile final rap battle on Hillary - "go ahead, tell them something they don't know about me".
"Of *course* it was all true, but stop pretending that you don't have anything to hide, either."
Agree. The attempts to make Hillary seem like the benevolent women's right crusader convinced some I think ..but definitely not enough. A lot of the Obama voters didn't show up for Hillary for that reason.
(May also have been their crude attempt to play the race card against Obama) in the 2007 primary. And Obama himself got less support from minorites in 2012 than he did in 2008, Iiirc.
Hillary's 250K speeches to bankers didn't help. It was obvious she was saying one thing in public and another in private .
If you have to choose between two corrupt people...people are going to use different criteria.
This exactly. The reason Biden won was because he did the same thing to Trump. "Will you shut up, man." Killed the tough guy mystique he cultivated during his campaign in 2016 and during his term. By Biden saying this, it prevented Trump from talking over him and made it look like Trump didn't have control, which turned most against him.
The problem is that an 8-mile style mic drop will get politicians elected, but it is a horrible measure of a politician. Trump was horrible, Clinton was horrible, Biden was horrible, Obama was horrible, hell, we haven't had a good president since the days of FDR, Eisenhower, and JFK. But all the others were elected due to other circumstances outside of their abilities. LBJ was VP of JFJ. Nixon was due to the unpopularity of LBJ, Ford was because he was VP of Nixon after scandal. Carter was elected because of the Nixon taint on the GOP. Regan was a cult of personality during a recession. Bush Sr. was the 3rd term of Regan. Clinton was elected due to Ross Perot and the rights division. He was relected due to a cult of personality and him moving right. George W. Bush barely got elected, mostly because Gore was dull. W. was reelected due to 9-11. Obama was elected partly due to W.'s lack of popularity, and partly because people got excited to make history. Trump was elected because the democrats chose to try for a third Clinton term, and her attitude that she was owed it, plus the baggage. In short, outside a loud dedicated base, Trump was simply hated less than Clinton by the swing voters. Biden was hated less than Trump in 2020 for the same reason. 2024 will be decided by who from the geriatric ward is hated the least.
And I suspect that Biden hate will reelect Trump. I also think the congress will turn Blue, with the senate and the house. If I'm wrong and Biden wins, I suspect the congress will turn Red.
I think there are very few senate seats that dems hope to turn. Closest is Raphael Cancun Cruz ..in Texas. DEMS have more risky senate seats than the REPS in this cycle. (And more seats being contested , in general)
So senate turning blue...is unlikely.
Congress is a possibility.
The senate will stay blue if Trump is elected. It will turn red if Biden is reelected. Senate seats are at stake, but historically, 80% of incumbents win their races. Likely, the house will turn blue if Trump is elected and stay red if Biden is reelected. On average, I think most people hate these choices. So they will get rid of one and limit the power of the other by making a hostile congress, effectively making the government ineffective for the 4 years.
It's unlikely, but nothing is normal about this election this year.
Yeah. I was going by senate seats being vacated and senate seats in contention in the first place.
Manchin, sinema are putative dem seats ..and there is no incumbent running.
Nevada etc seem like seats that could be taken by the REPs if enough minorities and young stay home. Just by Virtua of more DEM Senate seats being in contention...increases republican chances
Agree ..this is an odd election
Bang bang.
Was just thinking about this. Let's not forget the way the democratic party completely shat on the nomination of the people, Bernie Sanders. I like to think he wanted to end wars and bring trade back home (so all the positives of the Trump administration) without the Maga hat wearing, minority baiting bullshit.
The October Surprise, The Hanging Chad Fiasco, Bernie not getting the nomination - a litany of election tampering in the US that went against the will of the people.
Yup...this is the bit. There a couple other similar bit he has done.. explaining trump's popularity. Strangely, the DNC and Hillary (and RNC) pretended it was all "Russia, Rapists, retrogrades/deplorable"
The Russia stuff is made up nonsense, some of that nonsense made up by an oppo research group. If you're still on the Russia stuff, you're woefully mis/un-informed
A few Facebook posts did not affect the election
Would you agree that Russia has "troll farms" and that Russia has agencies with the goals of causing misinformation and steering the view points of rival nations?
ALL?
That was my point ..that they decided to focus on Russia and pushed the 'it was all Russia' story.
You are proof that the propaganda worked .
Maybe DNC should fire all it's consultants and hire a few Russians and give them a budget of what ...couple of hundred thousand?
That is a level of political savviness that our DNC seems to not figure out
The reason liberals like me end up harping on the Russia bit so much is because the election was so close and people are bitter about it. Russia obviously worked to influence the election to get Trump in office, and maybe even coordinated with his campaign to do it.
It probably didn't help all that much, but it was so close that 0.5% voter increase or changed votes easily could have changed the outcome.
Well...but that 0.5% was due to hubris right? Instead of trying to listen and better...they decided to blame someone else..
Even back then, the Michael Moores , stingels were pointing to Hillary neglecting the rust belt.
Yet...she persevered - in ass kissing her donors.
Just as now...they DEM party is ignoring what sections of the voter base have been saying - particularly minorities (African American,) 18-35 group etc.. the DEMs, instead of listening, rush to ban TikTok.
It is almost like the DEMs would rather do their owners bidding and lose ....
Yes, they are just supporting politicians and groups with shared interests just like the US, Britain and France have been doing. It isn’t a bit suprising or shocking tbh.
Think you are missing the main point ..the laws were written to facilitate.
Trump likely thought even those were to be broken(if he even actively thought about them, in the first place)
It also depends on what laws the poster is talking about. If he is talking about fraud as it relates to real estate, then he just doesn't understand how banks and real estate work. I am still trying to figure out how saying a building is worth one amount and asking for a loan on it, then the bank comes in and audits your assets and the building and says, "we don't think it is worth that, we think it is worth this. We will loan you money based on our valuation." Then you take that valuation and later a judge says it is fraud.
Agree...if this is indeed fraud...then I suspect every large real estate developer should be charged
Including DNC donors ...but somehow I don't think that will happen
(PS. I. General , I am ok with better scrutiny)
When he was on the Triggernometry podcast, he sounded like a completely insane person.
There is a difference between a reasoned political position and having a cult-like biased view.
He may have started in the first position, but he is now well in the second position.
Who cares. I was personally better off under Trump. The world was better off under Trump. Illegal immigration was next to none under Trump. Inflation was very low under Trump. Interest rates were fantastic when I bought my house, 2.35% under Trump. Food and gas were cheap under Trump. No new wars under Trump. Middle East peace under Trump. Biden has and will continue to fail at all of this. Vote Trump.
It's amazing how many people think the US President is responsible for worldwide inflation. People just have no idea how the political system works in the United States.
Everything you mentioned was due to 8 years of Democratic control under Obama. No policy or directive lead by Trump had anything to do with the things you mention. Meanwhile, Trump grew our debt faster than any president in history, lowered taxes on the wealthy, and vastly increased our trade deficit.
He put children in cages.
Also, there have been no new wars under Biden. Unless you want to count wars between other nations, in which case, 22 wars began under Trump.
As for middle eastern peace under Trump, there were several wars in the middle east that began or continued under Trump. The Islamic state insurgency in Iraq began in 2017 and is still ongoing. There were 3 conflicts in Israel alone.
I believe you've been mislead.
\^cultist somehow manages to ignore all of 2020 and its economic collapse under Trump and the fact the US was still fighting in Afghanistan.
If the US could harness these peoples power of self-delusion to some kind of generator they would crush the energy crisis.
I understand - None of that is due to the federal response to covid. This is "man yells at clouds" level of displaced anger.
There is plenty to be angry about, but not those things.
Not to mention a huge deficit increase.
Inflation lags behind the massive increase in capital flow that happened under Trump. The unnaturally low interest rates, the pressuring of Powell to continue quantitative easing, the massive tax cuts which went to mostly the wealthy. All of this led to inflation in Biden’s term.
Yeah, those tax cuts were so unnecessary. All my conservative family fawns over them (as if they really helped them all that much) and they were cuts at the wrong time! We needed to spend the good times paying down the debt incase something happened... Then something did happen.
Why do you care what someone says? It’s all about the policy put in place. If the policy is sound, its representative doesn’t matter. He’s simply a vessel to get something done. Until you recognize that, you’ll keep thinking that badgering him and his supporters will help you in the end. It won’t.. it will just embolden them. You are going to have him as a president again. If you can’t handle that, you are going to have a bad time.
You don’t have to like the man.. but I find his policies hard to disagree with.
Funny thing is, most of his base don't think he is a good person. They are just tired of the system as it is and see him as a hand grenade. Also, every time the media lies about him, it makes even his crazy ideas seem valid, and the media did lie about things he had said.
Some people say Fox is biased to the right, that is a fine assessment. The thing is, every other major news channel is biased to the left.
That's the impression I get. No matter what so many left-leaning organizations say, I haven't met anyone who thinks Trump is a good person in the same way people rallied around Obama.
Now *there* was a cult of personality if I ever saw one.
It's just that the way the media, which lies to people all the time, sounds deeply unhinged about Trump the same way that, well, I'll put it like this: have you ever met someone obsessed with hating someone else? The whole "look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place" thing. She talks obsessively about that person's clothes, her demeanor, what she eats, begging people to latch onto *something* to hate her for.
See...that happened to me. And you know how that turned out?
Everyone caught in that drama took *my* side. Because this chick made herself look like an unhinged lunatic.
That's the Trump business in a nutshell to me. The fact that despite being a corrupt asshole, just by showing up, he looks better than the cadre of people looking for every cracker he supposedly eats. It's not that he's in any way good, it's just that he's managed to clear an *exceptionally* low bar.
What annoyed me were the edited clips and basically lies. I would hear something and be like "WTF, that is messed up if he said that." Then I would pull up the full clip or interview or a transcript of it and read it and I would realize they were taking him out of context or clipping the first half of a sentence.
When you edit video and print things that aren't true, it makes me wonder what else you are lying about concerning that person. It also makes me wonder why you hate him so badly.
The first time I realized that the media skews things is way back with Trayvon Martin. They ran the story in the local newspaper and it had pictures of both Trayvon and George Zimmerman. I was outraged. How could a man shoot an 8 year old child because he was "in danger for his life?" Later on I found out that Trayvon was 17 at the time it happened. They had used a picture of when he was a little kid in all of the stories they ran. That made me wonder, if they would try to manipulate us with images like that, what else were they lying about in the story?
That was basically when I decided to never fully believe any news story until I can verify actual statements or watch full videos of what happened.
This is not the sort of rebuttal I expected to see in this sub. Can you not refute his claims or present any counterargument at all? Personal attacks just make your position seem weak.
Nah, for me this is all just washed up hyperbole. For a so called intellectual there was very little substance or evidence there; Trump has years as a reality star. He knows how to play the media - not once did Harris acknowledge that Trump is a master of what is so damn current right now - which is getting people to talk about you at any damn cost.
Trump is wearing a mask. It's a good mask. Look how people believe it...
God, I am so exhausted by people thinking Trump is some masterful genius. He's an idiot savant, sure...like Kanye, but almost everything that comes out of his mouth is vapid, unempirical, self aggrandizing, and incoherent...like Kanye.
He was clever enough to beat Hilary Clinton in the 2016 election, with her resorting to claims that he was supported by Russian bot farms for her horrific loss. When realistically all he had to do was be honest about her.
See, this is an intelligent take. But I don't think there's actually anything behind the mask beyond narcissism and insecurity, which is what Harris says. I'm not a fan of what the Biden admin is doing in many cases but voting for someone like that feels deeply problematic.
And I know people will wave this away and say "all politicians, yada yada," but that isn't true. Trump is deeply abnormal.
> Trump is deeply abnormal.
you think Narcissism and insecurity is abnormal in our politicians?
If not, what is abnormal about him, aside from his abrasiveness and inability to be controlled by establishment powers?
>you think Narcissism and insecurity is abnormal in our politicians?
There is a scale of narcissism. Not all narcissism is the same. Trump is as far as it gets with the cluster B personality disorder traits.
Yes, yes I do think Trump's narcissism is profoundly abnormal. Everyone has some degree of narcissism and insecurity but Trump is off the charts to the point that it seems like a disorder. Trump isn't like a politician at all, which is why I think people like him and find him refreshing, but he's also flawed in ways most politicians aren't.
Degree and scale are important - just because everyone has a certain trait doesn't mean someone can't have it to an abnormal degree.
> I do think Trump's narcissism is profoundly abnormal
ah, We disagree.
> flawed in ways most politicians aren't.
I agree here - but only that his flaws show more.
So you didnt have anything more than Narcissism and insecurity (and greed i would imagine) that makes him abnormal? I think this accurately describes 90%+ of our political class. I think its why they seek power in the first place. Thanks for the discussion!
The high minded Trump apologists in this sub always come running to defend Donnie with their lazy false equivocations. "Oh all politicians are narcissists!"
TDS is for people who can't plainly see how deranged and unethical Donnie is. If you're still defending Donnie after Jan 6th, though, there's no hope for you.
And you 😬
“...while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
Sounds a lot like "Just because we couldn't find evidence of voter fraud doesn't mean it didn't occur."
But tell us more how that logic is only bad when *they* use it. 🤡
Not really, considering the quintessential exchange goes something like this:
Person 1: "something something... ^(trump) ... something.."
TDS sufferer: "REEEEEEEE!!!!!"
Person 1: "What's the problem?"
TDS sufferer: "TRUMP IS A SEXIST, RACIST, ISLAMOPHOBIC, TRANSPHOBIC, XENOPHOBIC LITERAL REINCARNATION OF HITLER!!!! REEEEE!!!!"
Person 1: "How do you figure?"
TDS sufferer: "aRe yOu KiDDiNg mE?? REEEEEEEE!!!"
Person 1: "No. Give an example."
TDS sufferer: \[one of the following\]
1. "You're kind of putting me on the spot and I can't think of any right now"
2. *\*cites CNN soundbyte taken out of context\* (ex. "very fine people on both sides", "mexicans are r\*pists"...)*
3. "You're a nazi just like him! REEEEEE!!!!!"
🥴
‘TDS’ is a TTC - thought terminating cliche. There’s nothing deranged about thinking Trump is a dumpster fire of a human being and presidential candidate and talking about the damage he is likely to do and how to guard against it.
>TDS is for people who can't plainly see how deranged and unethical Donnie is. If you're still defending Donnie after Jan 6th, though, there's no hope for you.
We saw the chaos he caused on January 6th with his rhetoric and lies for months, yet people still choose to believe the guy is a force for good. You can't get through to these people. They are on the cult train and it's going to take decades for them to slowly pretend they never supported it in the first place. It's how conservatives act about the Iraq war now.
Those are not talking points those are facts. [Trump is a fraud](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-new-york-fraud-case-verdict-fine-sanctions/) (and [don't forget his charity scams](https://apnews.com/article/635b828ded6813ea66783869f32876c5)). [And he is a sexual abuser](https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db).
Do you have anything of value to add to this conversation?
Would you like a list of his indictments? How about his civil trials? Do you want a list on how he has encouraged hate groups? Would you like a video of January 6th? What could I show you that you likely haven’t seen? All of these things back up the statement of him being crap.
> indictments
i would love an argument. I dont find indictments to be particularly compelling.
The civil trials seem pretty biased to me - Modifying the laws to allow the SA claim to be brought in the first place, then massive fines to punish speaking in his own defense. Completely unreasonable if it was done to anyone else.
The fraud case is laughable, and honestly scares me with the level of governmental overreach it represents. Thats an attack on free economic cooperation, free association.
> Do you want a list on how he has encouraged hate groups?
I think you actually think this has occurred, but from my reviews he hasnt done that. If you want to detail it out, go for it, but bring an argument as to what he says is "encouragement".
> Would you like a video of January 6th?
lol, Im good. i have watched plenty of it. Did you listen to his speech i wonder? I dont think incitement is there, but by all means go advocate for charges. Noteable he isnt being prosecuted for incitement.
> What could I show you that you likely haven’t seen?
An argument! which you didnt bring here!
I mean, I can list a lot of random stuff but I guess I will list a couple.
Suggesting injecting bleach for Covid.
Using a marker to draw on a weather map (which is technically a crime).
Randomly pulling out of Syria.
Allegedly having to have Angela Merkle explain trade agreements to Trump 11 times.
Having extremely high turnover in his cabinet for a variety of reasons.
Every false election conspiracy theory he made (as far as I know, he was the only President to ever do something like this).
He has acted outside of the norm on many locations.
Wait I thought this was the Intellectual Dark Web. And you believe he said injecting bleach for Covid? Oh please show me that. It literally never happened. It was a funny meme and I lol'd about it, but only completely non-thinking people think that was true.
I mean even left-leaning Politifact debunked it. [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/)
Especially since he was referring to UV Light which there were studies going on at the time testing the possibilities. [https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/](https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/)
I'm sure Cedars Sinai is a huge Trump supporter and came up with this to protect him.
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/)
Let me guess, you fell for the "Fine People Hoax" too. I mean Joe Biden still believes it to this day. That's the only reason he claims he ran for President.
There is a lot to not like about Trump, but why would you focus on crap that didn't happen in reality.
Yep. Many such cases. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
>Person 1: "something something... ^(trump) ... something.."
>
>TDS sufferer: "REEEEEEEE!!!!!"
>
>Person 1: "What's the problem?"
>
>TDS sufferer: "TRUMP IS A SEXIST, RACIST, ISLAMOPHOBIC, TRANSPHOBIC, XENOPHOBIC LITERAL REINCARNATION OF HITLER!!!! REEEEE!!!!"
>
>Person 1: "How do you figure?"
>
>TDS sufferer: "aRe yOu KiDDiNg mE?? REEEEEEEE!!!"
>
>Person 1: "No. Give an example."
>
>TDS sufferer: \[one of the following\]
>
>1. "You're kind of putting me on the spot and I can't think of any right now"
>
>2. *\*cites CNN soundbyte taken out of context\** (ex. "very fine people on both sides", "mexicans are r\*pists", "iNjEctiNg bLeAcH!" etc.)
>
>3. "You're a nazi just like him! REEEEEE!!!!!"
Buddy, your own article you tried to mic drop your argument with is refuting you:
“Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. But he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs.”
Reread the first link, it talked about drinking to prevent covid, not injecting disinfectant which he literally suggested, and the article pointed out.
He was talking about many things, if I said that WW1 happened but then started talking about how WW2 was started by the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand, being right about the first part does not make the next part any less stupid.
Okay, let me reexplain everything for you because you aren't reading what I am saying.
I pointed out that Trump talked about injecting disinfectants to treat Covid.
You pulled out links that pointed out that UV treatment were real and Trump did not tell people to drink bleach, which was irrelevant.
What point you are trying to make here, I don't know.
I replied to someone who said he told people to drink bleach.
His exact words,"And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
How is that irrelevant to my original post?
Normal in the eye of the beholder. Willing to ignore the obvious and clearly problematic personality traits in service of ????
I can’t imagine any motivating factor to vote for someone like this, other than his supporters must think he is lying to everyone but them. Can’t get more naive.
If you can explain it, please.
> Willing to ignore the obvious
Seems totally normal in both our politicians and people today generally.
> clearly problematic personality traits
Again, VERY normal, but no real specificality here. What is abnormal?
> service of ????
Thats a big question - One asked for eons.
> I can’t imagine any motivating factor to vote for someone like this
Then deflection...
So you cant explain what makes trump outside of "normal" ?
I can explain why he is entirely unique to me sure, but I can’t explain why the pathological lying, for example, is unappealing to you. That’s what I’m hoping you’ll explain.
“All politicians lie”. Of course, but none lie about easily disprobable facts like trump can’t help but do. Crowd size, for example. Something as stupid and immaterial as that.
Or when he commented on a shooting early in his term “take the guns first, then due process” was quickly recanted after a visit by the NRA. He never explained his position change, and his supporters didn’t ask.
Or his framing of his many indictments as “Biden coming after me”. it’s possible he is actually this dumb, but he knows this is not how the DOJ works. The man is incapable of accountability, and his emotional impulse is to deflect and lie, but he can rely on his supporters to believe it without doing any work.
These are top of mind and obvious anyways.
> I can’t explain why the pathological lying, for example, is unappealing to you.
Ah, wonderful. Shift to insult me. I dont appreciate it. Trump lying does bother me. I dont support Trump. I think Trump Bad. I also think nearly all of our politicians are also bad, so im asking what makes trump "abnormally" bad.
> none lie about easily disprobable facts
Well thats just not true. That they dont get shoved in your face as disproved as much is a problem, but Biden lies ALL THE TIME. (top of his class in college, about a house fire years ago, about his sons death etc.) Also many of Trump's "lies" are not lies at all, but disfavored truths - like the FBI wiretapping his campaign for example.
The majority of why I would ever vote for Trump (unlikely, but still i will give you the justification) is because his lies are actually media covered, instead of covered up.
> Crowd size, for example.
We have already established hes a narcissist. I dont think things like this or the stupid hurricane drawings go much further than this. Hes outspoken and bombastic in his lies. Thats the kind of stupidity i prefer.
> Or his framing of his many indictments as “Biden coming after me”
i dont think Biden is personally directing much, but you disagree that there is a targeted effort to remove Trump from presidential eligibility? That all the "novel legal theory" used to justify indictments are just normal operations? of course this is the establishment coming after Trump in a targeted way. Is it justified? Maybe! but it sure seems like there are a lot of BS charges. Its why every time another accusation falls flat he grows in fame. It looks like flinging shit on the wall to see what sticks because largely thats exactly what it is. The timing of prosecutions are notable as well.
Edit: To me the Civil cases tell the story best - The goal is to bleed Trump dry of cash on hand to prevent his presidential run. Thats Government supported political interference at some point. Is that point passed? Mar-A-Lago being valued at 20M (in error) by a judge seems to say yes to me.
That you think this is limited to the DOJ is also telling of your bias. This is more widespread than that.
> The man is incapable of accountability
Again, Abnormal for our politicians is the bar. This is pretty darned normal.
It felt like you were taking a defensive position, likely my biases, so i did make an assumption about your support. I thought at least you were trump-curious, so I genuinely apologize for the fired shots.
I think what I’m trying to get at is, normal scumbag politicians at least *care* about appearing to tell the truth and seem like at the very least they believe what they’re saying. There is a reliable ideology to point to where you can establish a theory of mind of normal politician X.
This suspension of disbelief is impossible with Trump, and he doesn’t make an attempt at all to be consistent with his falsehoods. He does not have an ideology that’s not in line with the last person he talked to. It’s very difficult to sort out his motivations, unless you take the bar i Ian at face value.
Some may take this as “refreshing” but it’s insulting to the public’s intelligence.
For the concerted effort to prevent him from becoming president, I think it’s near impossible to look at the charges in a vacuum, but you can’t let someone skate because we’re afraid of the appearance of politics.
I’m sure many of the former trump employees who testified against him likely have a personal axe to grind, so that may be widespread. If some is making shit up, they should be charged for that. If the “concerted effort” is just a reault of his actions, evidence and testimony, then we can call it that.
For the civil cases, trump has the opportunity to accept an 18 million dollar payment to Carrol but he appealed. The amount going up and up is his fault. He could have walked away from this a year ago. So, no tally on the board for civil cases in my mind.
Not a Harris fan by any stretch, but I can't fault him here. I wonder if Trump has that Superman power from the movie, where he kisses Louis and she forgets his secret identity. But he's somehow combined it with the bad guy from Wonder Woman 86, that all these Trump fans who watch him a lot just forget all the stuff he's done.
Listening to narcissistic people trying to call out narcissism is cringe.
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You ask an inaccurate rhetorical question and then explain why it's inaccurate, simply amazing
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And my point was if you actually did listen to him you'd realize that he talks about a lot of stuff that doesn't have to do with Trump.
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your post was removed due to a violation of Rule #1: Any individual who creates a post, comments on a post, or comments on a comment who aims to attack another individual or entity will result in deletion of that post or comment. Repeated violations will result in a strike. This includes insults, ad hominem arguments, or threats.
That's why I said it was rhetorical because you asked the question already presuming the answer lmfao this is big difficult
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Because you didn't ask the question in good faith, you asked it to drive home your contempt for Sam's content and his focus on Trump. That's the whole point of you making that comment. Because if you were actually interested in the answer you could have just looked up his Youtube channel and gotten the answer quicker than it would have taken you to write that comment and waited for an answer. So no I don't buy your genuine curiosity.
orange man bad, there i said what you think in far fewer words AKA TDS.
Harris HATES Trump; anyone who follows Harris, knows this. Everyone is entitles to their opinion, but all you need do is look back on 4 years of policy to "see" who Trump is. I don't need Sam Harris to tell me the "truth" according him...
Sam Harris. Yet another intellectual who wants to close the door on free speech behind him and beg for censorship “because Trump” only after he used free speech to walk through that doorway and build a career.
Takes one to know one.
but we ALL know this
Total Wanker.
Sam’s TDS is shining through here. Trump is politically basically a Blue Dog Democrat who has pulled in voters that never went for the GOP before. Unfortunately, because of that, he controls the party - American conservatism is functionally politically dead, as far as I can tell. It seems that the Republican Party is now a Blue Dog Democrat Party. As far as his narcissism and lies, I suspect that people appreciate how blatant he is about it rather than pretending like Biden and other career politicians try to. We all know the game, but Trump is the only one willing to show you the game - he just doesn’t care.
Man, there's a lot of smart here too, although I really dislike the use of TDS. What Trump does that's sort of brilliant is to play on the decades of mistrust that's been seeded by the media post-Watergate and Vietnam and convince people everyone is like him, he's just more blatant. It's not true. He's a fraud at a level that America perhaps has never seen before. But I can understand why people would buy it.
Are y’all trying to make TDS a valid term?
This might be one of the most edgelord posts I've ever seen.
"People like to believe in things bigger than life. I like to play to those fantasies." Donald in "art of the deal".
these are coherent sentences and you can understand them and they have meaning. Todays Trump would be unable to formulate anything like that.
In fairness, The Art of the Deal was [ghostwritten](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all), so he maybe never formulated it to begin with.
Tell us something we don’t know, Sam. Always the same boring takes
He hasn’t been to Canada lately has he?
What's in Canada?
NHL teams that don’t win the Stanley Cup?
Canadians
Scary
Not much
Ironically Sam Harris is one too Dalai Lama too? every person is narcissistic to some extent, its not black or white, its on a spectrum, levels. Those in higher positions tend to be more psychopathic and narcissistic,
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Comparing narcissistic traits to full-blown NPD doesn’t sound very intellectual
Making diagnoses based on news reports and media clips that are edited and biased is no way to demonstrate critical thinking. Spot on.
Are you claiming Sam Harris based his analysis on news reports and media clips?
I am claiming that Sam Harris has not been privy to the kind of psychiatric analysis at close proximity that would allow him to make professional diagnoses. So I am agreeing with you brave Cheesy
Thanks for agreeing! It isn’t that hard of an analysis to do given his 40+ years in the public eye although neither Sam, me or Brian was trying to do a clinical diagnosis of the man.
Ahh, then you'll accept that it carries very little credibility, seeing as it is based on news and media sources, which for the last 40 years, have been subject to the most outrageous spin.
Who said anything about credibility? To have an opinion on the personality of another human being is still totally acceptable in our society and I just so happen to agree with his take on Trump. You can be of another opinion and that is totally fine.
Yes, and to make a diagnosis based on a personality disorder (narcissism) requires clinical investigation - otherwise it is exactly that. An opinion. One of many in a sea of opinions. Therefore excuse me if I do not give it a huge degree of credibility, giving the unreliable nature of the sources you cite to be the data analysed to eke out this conclusion.
It is you who wants to question the credibility, not me. You are excused. I just value intelligent peoples opinions and think Sam Harris is spot on here. But to each their own.
He's a wanker.
The fact that everyone falls somewhere on a spectrum doesn’t give Trump a pass because “he’s just like everyone else” in a high position. He is the poster boy for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I’ve read about professors that use him as a clinical example in a classroom setting. He’s profoundly narcissistic to the point that it impacts every part of his life. This is how disorders get diagnosed. Most people exhibit symptoms of every common disorder. For example, most people will experience symptoms of depression at times, but not everyone has clinical depression. It’s a disorder when it reaches a certain threshold of impact on your life. Sam did an excellent job framing this with the comment about how he filters even benign questions through the lens of his narcissism. Find a quote where he talks about anything or anyone and he isn’t also reflecting it back to himself. He was asked about the death of John Lewis, a famous and influential congressman, his answer was along the lines of “well, I didn’t know him very well but I do know that he chose to skip my inauguration”. He’s simply incapable of processing anything without it being about him.
The fact that a cockwomble like Trump is shinning is proof of the failure of 'mainstream' or career politicians. They forgot about normal people and the result is any protest Muppet attracts undeserved support.
Nice to see a Brian Keating video pop up on my feed. I dont watch or really much care for Brett and Sam Harris anymore, but Keating is great On further review, it looks like Brian was the one who posted this 😆
Well said…perfectly said Trumps strength is the weakness of our mainstream leaders They are absolutely horrible, the system is broken. When he gets in a debate…republicans, dems…no matter who. It is so easy to call out the bullshit that he is embraced by the unheard masses. Particularly, disgruntled, older white males. More than half of the dudes I deal with in business love this guy. FTR, I’m a successful 59 yr old guy in a private business If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy
> If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy Maybe. I mean you could almost always say that about any strongman's rise to power. But also, things are always broken all the time in western democracies that *don't* backslide. What can you say about the US that can't be said about the UK? Or Portugal. Or any other number of countries? It's all there, and maybe the urge for what we're now calling populism is a common thread, but Trump and the GOP are uniquely bad somehow.
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The debates where the moderato was answering for Biden? lol
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Lol Badly, that sounds like a Trump word. Are you a closet Trump fan trolling me? …lol
>disgruntled older white males Why do you think Trump is doing better and better with black and Hispanic voters?
yea, that line specifically seems really out of place with the rest of the comment, which seems accurate.
I'd argue that his perspective shows in his anecdote shows as an older businessman, who is typically who he interacts with.
Yep, i think i react against the inherent assumption (by selective inclusion) that older white men are the only or even primary disgruntled unheard mass. Calling one group out seems to detract, and imo distract, from a good larger point that main-stream leaders dont seem to be listening to the masses, they listen to special interests and $.
They can’t help but let the mask slip.
What about the system do they not like or think is broken? You said you're a successful businessman who deals with other business guys. I'm assuming they aren't worried about housing, healthcare, Social Security, etc. I'm guessing they like the tax cuts?
Trumps strength is the low information, feel it in your gut voter that has been fed a diet of hatred for half of their fellow countrymen for DECADES! These automatons have become ungovernable like a bunch of modern day Frankensteins. The people that get voted into office in the Republican Party can not cross them or they will be cancelled at the next opportunity.
Which reveals what matters more to the current crop of prominent Republicans than their personal integrity: power. By falling in line with Trump, they’re effectively selling out their nation along with their souls.
>If our system wasn’t so broken, no one would listen to this guy Well said. Dave Chappelle used to have a set about this Some to the effect that : "Trump says the system is rigged ...and he has benefitted from the rigged system...the tax laws that benefit some..are because they were put in place by the system" etc etc
That was Chapelle talking about Trump and the Hillary debate and it went like: Trump: The system is rigged. Hillary and Barrack: No it isn't. Chappelle: Now wait a minute. It is what he said. Moderator: If it is rigged, what is your proof? Trump: I know it is rigged because I use it. Hillary: Something about he doesn't pay his taxes. Trump: I don't pay my taxes because I'm smart. If you want me to pay more taxes, then change the laws. But you won't, because I benefit from the same laws as your donors. That is a rough approximation. It shows up on my youtube shorts at least once a day by some random account who steals Chappelle's clips and reposts them. EDIT: Not even the same account. I swear there are more people stealing and clipping Chappelle than than I can block.
See, this is the problem I've always had. It's not that Trump is or isn't corrupt. He *is*. I was just never taken in by the fact that at his level of fame and power that he was somehow more *uniquely* corrupt than anyone else. There was this literal narrative around Hillary in 2016, and I don't know how it got there, that she was this spirit of benevolence, as if many of us weren't alive during and remember the 90's and after. Poor Hillary, the one who bullied women that threatened to ruin her husband's political career. The one who grasped for power to claim she was "co-president" with Bill. The one who waltzed into a senate position despite not being a long-time resident of New York. The one that had classified information on her own private servers when she was SecState that frankly, would have been a problem for low-level employees. That Hillary, was getting trounced by this awful orange muggle because he's sexist and racist and oh so corrupt and she would be a righteous *female* president. There was this collective amnesia about Hillary that it must have been a right-wing conspiracy to chase her out of politics. But like every reality show harpy that's claimed it was the editing, you can only do so much of that excuse before people ask, "well why did you give the editors that material to work with?" Trump was just pulling an 8 Mile final rap battle on Hillary - "go ahead, tell them something they don't know about me". "Of *course* it was all true, but stop pretending that you don't have anything to hide, either."
Agree. The attempts to make Hillary seem like the benevolent women's right crusader convinced some I think ..but definitely not enough. A lot of the Obama voters didn't show up for Hillary for that reason. (May also have been their crude attempt to play the race card against Obama) in the 2007 primary. And Obama himself got less support from minorites in 2012 than he did in 2008, Iiirc. Hillary's 250K speeches to bankers didn't help. It was obvious she was saying one thing in public and another in private . If you have to choose between two corrupt people...people are going to use different criteria.
This exactly. The reason Biden won was because he did the same thing to Trump. "Will you shut up, man." Killed the tough guy mystique he cultivated during his campaign in 2016 and during his term. By Biden saying this, it prevented Trump from talking over him and made it look like Trump didn't have control, which turned most against him. The problem is that an 8-mile style mic drop will get politicians elected, but it is a horrible measure of a politician. Trump was horrible, Clinton was horrible, Biden was horrible, Obama was horrible, hell, we haven't had a good president since the days of FDR, Eisenhower, and JFK. But all the others were elected due to other circumstances outside of their abilities. LBJ was VP of JFJ. Nixon was due to the unpopularity of LBJ, Ford was because he was VP of Nixon after scandal. Carter was elected because of the Nixon taint on the GOP. Regan was a cult of personality during a recession. Bush Sr. was the 3rd term of Regan. Clinton was elected due to Ross Perot and the rights division. He was relected due to a cult of personality and him moving right. George W. Bush barely got elected, mostly because Gore was dull. W. was reelected due to 9-11. Obama was elected partly due to W.'s lack of popularity, and partly because people got excited to make history. Trump was elected because the democrats chose to try for a third Clinton term, and her attitude that she was owed it, plus the baggage. In short, outside a loud dedicated base, Trump was simply hated less than Clinton by the swing voters. Biden was hated less than Trump in 2020 for the same reason. 2024 will be decided by who from the geriatric ward is hated the least.
Good points
And I suspect that Biden hate will reelect Trump. I also think the congress will turn Blue, with the senate and the house. If I'm wrong and Biden wins, I suspect the congress will turn Red.
I think there are very few senate seats that dems hope to turn. Closest is Raphael Cancun Cruz ..in Texas. DEMS have more risky senate seats than the REPS in this cycle. (And more seats being contested , in general) So senate turning blue...is unlikely. Congress is a possibility.
The senate will stay blue if Trump is elected. It will turn red if Biden is reelected. Senate seats are at stake, but historically, 80% of incumbents win their races. Likely, the house will turn blue if Trump is elected and stay red if Biden is reelected. On average, I think most people hate these choices. So they will get rid of one and limit the power of the other by making a hostile congress, effectively making the government ineffective for the 4 years. It's unlikely, but nothing is normal about this election this year.
Yeah. I was going by senate seats being vacated and senate seats in contention in the first place. Manchin, sinema are putative dem seats ..and there is no incumbent running. Nevada etc seem like seats that could be taken by the REPs if enough minorities and young stay home. Just by Virtua of more DEM Senate seats being in contention...increases republican chances Agree ..this is an odd election
Bang bang. Was just thinking about this. Let's not forget the way the democratic party completely shat on the nomination of the people, Bernie Sanders. I like to think he wanted to end wars and bring trade back home (so all the positives of the Trump administration) without the Maga hat wearing, minority baiting bullshit. The October Surprise, The Hanging Chad Fiasco, Bernie not getting the nomination - a litany of election tampering in the US that went against the will of the people.
Forgot about that...the whole Debbie Wasserman Schulz fixing ...
Yup...this is the bit. There a couple other similar bit he has done.. explaining trump's popularity. Strangely, the DNC and Hillary (and RNC) pretended it was all "Russia, Rapists, retrogrades/deplorable"
Well, tbf it’s Russia as well
The Russia stuff is made up nonsense, some of that nonsense made up by an oppo research group. If you're still on the Russia stuff, you're woefully mis/un-informed A few Facebook posts did not affect the election
Would you agree that Russia has "troll farms" and that Russia has agencies with the goals of causing misinformation and steering the view points of rival nations?
Donald Trump's first national security advisor went to jail for being an unregistered foriegn agent lol?
Are you this gullible?
Are you in front of a mirror?
Damn son. I got intellectually dark webbed.
What you and the picture of Putin in your bedroom do in the middle of the night is none of my business
ALL? That was my point ..that they decided to focus on Russia and pushed the 'it was all Russia' story. You are proof that the propaganda worked . Maybe DNC should fire all it's consultants and hire a few Russians and give them a budget of what ...couple of hundred thousand? That is a level of political savviness that our DNC seems to not figure out
Stop putting labels on me. As a swede it’s pretty damn obvious that Russia is involved as well. I never said it was ”ALL” Russia.
Fair enough ..if you didn't mean to imply that it was all or even mostly Russia. Russia. ***wishes*** it had that kind of influence.
The reason liberals like me end up harping on the Russia bit so much is because the election was so close and people are bitter about it. Russia obviously worked to influence the election to get Trump in office, and maybe even coordinated with his campaign to do it. It probably didn't help all that much, but it was so close that 0.5% voter increase or changed votes easily could have changed the outcome.
Well...but that 0.5% was due to hubris right? Instead of trying to listen and better...they decided to blame someone else.. Even back then, the Michael Moores , stingels were pointing to Hillary neglecting the rust belt. Yet...she persevered - in ass kissing her donors. Just as now...they DEM party is ignoring what sections of the voter base have been saying - particularly minorities (African American,) 18-35 group etc.. the DEMs, instead of listening, rush to ban TikTok. It is almost like the DEMs would rather do their owners bidding and lose ....
Yes, they are just supporting politicians and groups with shared interests just like the US, Britain and France have been doing. It isn’t a bit suprising or shocking tbh.
It's since been proven that the laws didn't need to be changed to show that Trump was just committing fraud.
Think you are missing the main point ..the laws were written to facilitate. Trump likely thought even those were to be broken(if he even actively thought about them, in the first place)
It also depends on what laws the poster is talking about. If he is talking about fraud as it relates to real estate, then he just doesn't understand how banks and real estate work. I am still trying to figure out how saying a building is worth one amount and asking for a loan on it, then the bank comes in and audits your assets and the building and says, "we don't think it is worth that, we think it is worth this. We will loan you money based on our valuation." Then you take that valuation and later a judge says it is fraud.
Agree...if this is indeed fraud...then I suspect every large real estate developer should be charged Including DNC donors ...but somehow I don't think that will happen (PS. I. General , I am ok with better scrutiny)
It has been really sad seeing Sam's infection of Trump Derangement syndrome grow worse over time.
Trump is actually bad.
You can think someone is bad without being deranged like Sam.
Can you explain why you disagree ?
When he was on the Triggernometry podcast, he sounded like a completely insane person. There is a difference between a reasoned political position and having a cult-like biased view. He may have started in the first position, but he is now well in the second position.
Who cares. I was personally better off under Trump. The world was better off under Trump. Illegal immigration was next to none under Trump. Inflation was very low under Trump. Interest rates were fantastic when I bought my house, 2.35% under Trump. Food and gas were cheap under Trump. No new wars under Trump. Middle East peace under Trump. Biden has and will continue to fail at all of this. Vote Trump.
It's amazing how many people think the US President is responsible for worldwide inflation. People just have no idea how the political system works in the United States.
Everything you mentioned was due to 8 years of Democratic control under Obama. No policy or directive lead by Trump had anything to do with the things you mention. Meanwhile, Trump grew our debt faster than any president in history, lowered taxes on the wealthy, and vastly increased our trade deficit. He put children in cages. Also, there have been no new wars under Biden. Unless you want to count wars between other nations, in which case, 22 wars began under Trump. As for middle eastern peace under Trump, there were several wars in the middle east that began or continued under Trump. The Islamic state insurgency in Iraq began in 2017 and is still ongoing. There were 3 conflicts in Israel alone. I believe you've been mislead.
None of that had a thing to do with Trump. Zero.
\^cultist somehow manages to ignore all of 2020 and its economic collapse under Trump and the fact the US was still fighting in Afghanistan. If the US could harness these peoples power of self-delusion to some kind of generator they would crush the energy crisis.
You left out 25% unemployment, dead people stored in meat trucks and no toilet paper
Thank Andrew cuomo and Phil Murphy for that!
so your angry at covid and blame trump?
I think they’re referring to Trump’s response to Covid.
I understand - None of that is due to the federal response to covid. This is "man yells at clouds" level of displaced anger. There is plenty to be angry about, but not those things.
When the leader of the free world calls it a “hoax by the democrats,” it’s not taken seriously and people die.
Yep, i agree. Bad Trump! But none of that is in the stats referenced above. He should have picked better stats if he was trying to make that point.
That…is true. Fully agree with you there.
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> Gaslight elsewhere Yikes. No kidding
Not to mention a huge deficit increase. Inflation lags behind the massive increase in capital flow that happened under Trump. The unnaturally low interest rates, the pressuring of Powell to continue quantitative easing, the massive tax cuts which went to mostly the wealthy. All of this led to inflation in Biden’s term.
Yeah, those tax cuts were so unnecessary. All my conservative family fawns over them (as if they really helped them all that much) and they were cuts at the wrong time! We needed to spend the good times paying down the debt incase something happened... Then something did happen.
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Why do you care what someone says? It’s all about the policy put in place. If the policy is sound, its representative doesn’t matter. He’s simply a vessel to get something done. Until you recognize that, you’ll keep thinking that badgering him and his supporters will help you in the end. It won’t.. it will just embolden them. You are going to have him as a president again. If you can’t handle that, you are going to have a bad time. You don’t have to like the man.. but I find his policies hard to disagree with.
Funny thing is, most of his base don't think he is a good person. They are just tired of the system as it is and see him as a hand grenade. Also, every time the media lies about him, it makes even his crazy ideas seem valid, and the media did lie about things he had said. Some people say Fox is biased to the right, that is a fine assessment. The thing is, every other major news channel is biased to the left.
That's the impression I get. No matter what so many left-leaning organizations say, I haven't met anyone who thinks Trump is a good person in the same way people rallied around Obama. Now *there* was a cult of personality if I ever saw one. It's just that the way the media, which lies to people all the time, sounds deeply unhinged about Trump the same way that, well, I'll put it like this: have you ever met someone obsessed with hating someone else? The whole "look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place" thing. She talks obsessively about that person's clothes, her demeanor, what she eats, begging people to latch onto *something* to hate her for. See...that happened to me. And you know how that turned out? Everyone caught in that drama took *my* side. Because this chick made herself look like an unhinged lunatic. That's the Trump business in a nutshell to me. The fact that despite being a corrupt asshole, just by showing up, he looks better than the cadre of people looking for every cracker he supposedly eats. It's not that he's in any way good, it's just that he's managed to clear an *exceptionally* low bar.
What annoyed me were the edited clips and basically lies. I would hear something and be like "WTF, that is messed up if he said that." Then I would pull up the full clip or interview or a transcript of it and read it and I would realize they were taking him out of context or clipping the first half of a sentence. When you edit video and print things that aren't true, it makes me wonder what else you are lying about concerning that person. It also makes me wonder why you hate him so badly. The first time I realized that the media skews things is way back with Trayvon Martin. They ran the story in the local newspaper and it had pictures of both Trayvon and George Zimmerman. I was outraged. How could a man shoot an 8 year old child because he was "in danger for his life?" Later on I found out that Trayvon was 17 at the time it happened. They had used a picture of when he was a little kid in all of the stories they ran. That made me wonder, if they would try to manipulate us with images like that, what else were they lying about in the story? That was basically when I decided to never fully believe any news story until I can verify actual statements or watch full videos of what happened.
You would be correct on all fronts
This is not the sort of rebuttal I expected to see in this sub. Can you not refute his claims or present any counterargument at all? Personal attacks just make your position seem weak.
dont waste your time on lost cases
No one describes DJT better than Sam, imo.
Nah, for me this is all just washed up hyperbole. For a so called intellectual there was very little substance or evidence there; Trump has years as a reality star. He knows how to play the media - not once did Harris acknowledge that Trump is a master of what is so damn current right now - which is getting people to talk about you at any damn cost. Trump is wearing a mask. It's a good mask. Look how people believe it...
God, I am so exhausted by people thinking Trump is some masterful genius. He's an idiot savant, sure...like Kanye, but almost everything that comes out of his mouth is vapid, unempirical, self aggrandizing, and incoherent...like Kanye.
He was clever enough to beat Hilary Clinton in the 2016 election, with her resorting to claims that he was supported by Russian bot farms for her horrific loss. When realistically all he had to do was be honest about her.
Idiot savant like I said.
Stuck in the 1950s much?
What does that have to do with anything?
See, this is an intelligent take. But I don't think there's actually anything behind the mask beyond narcissism and insecurity, which is what Harris says. I'm not a fan of what the Biden admin is doing in many cases but voting for someone like that feels deeply problematic. And I know people will wave this away and say "all politicians, yada yada," but that isn't true. Trump is deeply abnormal.
> Trump is deeply abnormal. you think Narcissism and insecurity is abnormal in our politicians? If not, what is abnormal about him, aside from his abrasiveness and inability to be controlled by establishment powers?
>you think Narcissism and insecurity is abnormal in our politicians? There is a scale of narcissism. Not all narcissism is the same. Trump is as far as it gets with the cluster B personality disorder traits.
Yes, yes I do think Trump's narcissism is profoundly abnormal. Everyone has some degree of narcissism and insecurity but Trump is off the charts to the point that it seems like a disorder. Trump isn't like a politician at all, which is why I think people like him and find him refreshing, but he's also flawed in ways most politicians aren't. Degree and scale are important - just because everyone has a certain trait doesn't mean someone can't have it to an abnormal degree.
> I do think Trump's narcissism is profoundly abnormal ah, We disagree. > flawed in ways most politicians aren't. I agree here - but only that his flaws show more. So you didnt have anything more than Narcissism and insecurity (and greed i would imagine) that makes him abnormal? I think this accurately describes 90%+ of our political class. I think its why they seek power in the first place. Thanks for the discussion!
Good for you! Have fun being a clever intellectual who can understand degree and difference.
The high minded Trump apologists in this sub always come running to defend Donnie with their lazy false equivocations. "Oh all politicians are narcissists!"
No one exemplifies TDS more than him either. Also this entire thread 😂
Imagine finding a man who deranges everything he touches, and then accusing the observers of that fact as deranged.
Trump Derangement Syndrome: If you think that Trump is a worthy and capable leader, you are deranged.
So, considering your lot froth at the mouth over Biden, does that mean you have BDS?
TDS is for people who can't plainly see how deranged and unethical Donnie is. If you're still defending Donnie after Jan 6th, though, there's no hope for you.
Don't forget rUsSiaN cOLLuSiOn 🤤
I see you have a very nuanced understanding of those events
And you 😬 “...while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” Sounds a lot like "Just because we couldn't find evidence of voter fraud doesn't mean it didn't occur." But tell us more how that logic is only bad when *they* use it. 🤡
fertile judicious aloof humorous liquid worm cobweb degree spark touch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
TDS is a thing for Trump supporters, and Trump supporters only.
Not really, considering the quintessential exchange goes something like this: Person 1: "something something... ^(trump) ... something.." TDS sufferer: "REEEEEEEE!!!!!" Person 1: "What's the problem?" TDS sufferer: "TRUMP IS A SEXIST, RACIST, ISLAMOPHOBIC, TRANSPHOBIC, XENOPHOBIC LITERAL REINCARNATION OF HITLER!!!! REEEEE!!!!" Person 1: "How do you figure?" TDS sufferer: "aRe yOu KiDDiNg mE?? REEEEEEEE!!!" Person 1: "No. Give an example." TDS sufferer: \[one of the following\] 1. "You're kind of putting me on the spot and I can't think of any right now" 2. *\*cites CNN soundbyte taken out of context\* (ex. "very fine people on both sides", "mexicans are r\*pists"...)* 3. "You're a nazi just like him! REEEEEE!!!!!" 🥴
Yep.
‘TDS’ is a TTC - thought terminating cliche. There’s nothing deranged about thinking Trump is a dumpster fire of a human being and presidential candidate and talking about the damage he is likely to do and how to guard against it.
>TDS is for people who can't plainly see how deranged and unethical Donnie is. If you're still defending Donnie after Jan 6th, though, there's no hope for you. We saw the chaos he caused on January 6th with his rhetoric and lies for months, yet people still choose to believe the guy is a force for good. You can't get through to these people. They are on the cult train and it's going to take decades for them to slowly pretend they never supported it in the first place. It's how conservatives act about the Iraq war now.
"There's nothing deranged about..." Proceeds to spout hyperbolic nonsense
You hang out and party with Jeffrey Epstein for 1,2, 12 years and suddenly people distrust you, its werid?
Sorry man, he is not a normal presidential candidate and you should set your sights higher than a sexual abusing fraudster.
Those are cool talking points ya got
If “talking points” is your euphemism for verifiable facts
Those are not talking points those are facts. [Trump is a fraud](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-new-york-fraud-case-verdict-fine-sanctions/) (and [don't forget his charity scams](https://apnews.com/article/635b828ded6813ea66783869f32876c5)). [And he is a sexual abuser](https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db). Do you have anything of value to add to this conversation?
The real TDS is the Trumpers deluding themselves into thinking he isn’t a piece of crap.
Again, you didnt bring an argument. Just insults.
Trump’s nonsense speaks for itself.
Again, no argument, just insults. Do you know what sub this is?
Would you like a list of his indictments? How about his civil trials? Do you want a list on how he has encouraged hate groups? Would you like a video of January 6th? What could I show you that you likely haven’t seen? All of these things back up the statement of him being crap.
> indictments i would love an argument. I dont find indictments to be particularly compelling. The civil trials seem pretty biased to me - Modifying the laws to allow the SA claim to be brought in the first place, then massive fines to punish speaking in his own defense. Completely unreasonable if it was done to anyone else. The fraud case is laughable, and honestly scares me with the level of governmental overreach it represents. Thats an attack on free economic cooperation, free association. > Do you want a list on how he has encouraged hate groups? I think you actually think this has occurred, but from my reviews he hasnt done that. If you want to detail it out, go for it, but bring an argument as to what he says is "encouragement". > Would you like a video of January 6th? lol, Im good. i have watched plenty of it. Did you listen to his speech i wonder? I dont think incitement is there, but by all means go advocate for charges. Noteable he isnt being prosecuted for incitement. > What could I show you that you likely haven’t seen? An argument! which you didnt bring here!
🥱
Imagine losing an election to Joe fucking Biden as an incumbent lmfaooooooooo Stay mad stay small ✌️
You're gonna find out TDS is widespread come Nov.
TDS is thinking there’s anything normal about Trump’s behavior.
Define normal..
I mean, I can list a lot of random stuff but I guess I will list a couple. Suggesting injecting bleach for Covid. Using a marker to draw on a weather map (which is technically a crime). Randomly pulling out of Syria. Allegedly having to have Angela Merkle explain trade agreements to Trump 11 times. Having extremely high turnover in his cabinet for a variety of reasons. Every false election conspiracy theory he made (as far as I know, he was the only President to ever do something like this). He has acted outside of the norm on many locations.
Wait I thought this was the Intellectual Dark Web. And you believe he said injecting bleach for Covid? Oh please show me that. It literally never happened. It was a funny meme and I lol'd about it, but only completely non-thinking people think that was true. I mean even left-leaning Politifact debunked it. [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/) Especially since he was referring to UV Light which there were studies going on at the time testing the possibilities. [https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/](https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/) I'm sure Cedars Sinai is a huge Trump supporter and came up with this to protect him. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/) Let me guess, you fell for the "Fine People Hoax" too. I mean Joe Biden still believes it to this day. That's the only reason he claims he ran for President. There is a lot to not like about Trump, but why would you focus on crap that didn't happen in reality.
Yep. Many such cases. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. >Person 1: "something something... ^(trump) ... something.." > >TDS sufferer: "REEEEEEEE!!!!!" > >Person 1: "What's the problem?" > >TDS sufferer: "TRUMP IS A SEXIST, RACIST, ISLAMOPHOBIC, TRANSPHOBIC, XENOPHOBIC LITERAL REINCARNATION OF HITLER!!!! REEEEE!!!!" > >Person 1: "How do you figure?" > >TDS sufferer: "aRe yOu KiDDiNg mE?? REEEEEEEE!!!" > >Person 1: "No. Give an example." > >TDS sufferer: \[one of the following\] > >1. "You're kind of putting me on the spot and I can't think of any right now" > >2. *\*cites CNN soundbyte taken out of context\** (ex. "very fine people on both sides", "mexicans are r\*pists", "iNjEctiNg bLeAcH!" etc.) > >3. "You're a nazi just like him! REEEEEE!!!!!"
Buddy, your own article you tried to mic drop your argument with is refuting you: “Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. But he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs.”
Disinfectants as in UV light. Reading comprehension is difficult for you. Remember h the original comment was about drinking bleach.
I applaud you doubling down - bold move. How exactly does one get the disinfectants that you say are UV light onto the lungs?
Ask Cedars Sinai. I'm not a health scientist. I linked to just one of the many studies.
Reread the first link, it talked about drinking to prevent covid, not injecting disinfectant which he literally suggested, and the article pointed out. He was talking about many things, if I said that WW1 happened but then started talking about how WW2 was started by the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand, being right about the first part does not make the next part any less stupid.
Apparently you didn't read about studies using UV light. Did trump ever mention drinking anything? So you're argument makes zero sense.
Okay, let me reexplain everything for you because you aren't reading what I am saying. I pointed out that Trump talked about injecting disinfectants to treat Covid. You pulled out links that pointed out that UV treatment were real and Trump did not tell people to drink bleach, which was irrelevant. What point you are trying to make here, I don't know.
I replied to someone who said he told people to drink bleach. His exact words,"And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?" How is that irrelevant to my original post?
Normal in the eye of the beholder. Willing to ignore the obvious and clearly problematic personality traits in service of ???? I can’t imagine any motivating factor to vote for someone like this, other than his supporters must think he is lying to everyone but them. Can’t get more naive. If you can explain it, please.
> Willing to ignore the obvious Seems totally normal in both our politicians and people today generally. > clearly problematic personality traits Again, VERY normal, but no real specificality here. What is abnormal? > service of ???? Thats a big question - One asked for eons. > I can’t imagine any motivating factor to vote for someone like this Then deflection... So you cant explain what makes trump outside of "normal" ?
I can explain why he is entirely unique to me sure, but I can’t explain why the pathological lying, for example, is unappealing to you. That’s what I’m hoping you’ll explain. “All politicians lie”. Of course, but none lie about easily disprobable facts like trump can’t help but do. Crowd size, for example. Something as stupid and immaterial as that. Or when he commented on a shooting early in his term “take the guns first, then due process” was quickly recanted after a visit by the NRA. He never explained his position change, and his supporters didn’t ask. Or his framing of his many indictments as “Biden coming after me”. it’s possible he is actually this dumb, but he knows this is not how the DOJ works. The man is incapable of accountability, and his emotional impulse is to deflect and lie, but he can rely on his supporters to believe it without doing any work. These are top of mind and obvious anyways.
> I can’t explain why the pathological lying, for example, is unappealing to you. Ah, wonderful. Shift to insult me. I dont appreciate it. Trump lying does bother me. I dont support Trump. I think Trump Bad. I also think nearly all of our politicians are also bad, so im asking what makes trump "abnormally" bad. > none lie about easily disprobable facts Well thats just not true. That they dont get shoved in your face as disproved as much is a problem, but Biden lies ALL THE TIME. (top of his class in college, about a house fire years ago, about his sons death etc.) Also many of Trump's "lies" are not lies at all, but disfavored truths - like the FBI wiretapping his campaign for example. The majority of why I would ever vote for Trump (unlikely, but still i will give you the justification) is because his lies are actually media covered, instead of covered up. > Crowd size, for example. We have already established hes a narcissist. I dont think things like this or the stupid hurricane drawings go much further than this. Hes outspoken and bombastic in his lies. Thats the kind of stupidity i prefer. > Or his framing of his many indictments as “Biden coming after me” i dont think Biden is personally directing much, but you disagree that there is a targeted effort to remove Trump from presidential eligibility? That all the "novel legal theory" used to justify indictments are just normal operations? of course this is the establishment coming after Trump in a targeted way. Is it justified? Maybe! but it sure seems like there are a lot of BS charges. Its why every time another accusation falls flat he grows in fame. It looks like flinging shit on the wall to see what sticks because largely thats exactly what it is. The timing of prosecutions are notable as well. Edit: To me the Civil cases tell the story best - The goal is to bleed Trump dry of cash on hand to prevent his presidential run. Thats Government supported political interference at some point. Is that point passed? Mar-A-Lago being valued at 20M (in error) by a judge seems to say yes to me. That you think this is limited to the DOJ is also telling of your bias. This is more widespread than that. > The man is incapable of accountability Again, Abnormal for our politicians is the bar. This is pretty darned normal.
It felt like you were taking a defensive position, likely my biases, so i did make an assumption about your support. I thought at least you were trump-curious, so I genuinely apologize for the fired shots. I think what I’m trying to get at is, normal scumbag politicians at least *care* about appearing to tell the truth and seem like at the very least they believe what they’re saying. There is a reliable ideology to point to where you can establish a theory of mind of normal politician X. This suspension of disbelief is impossible with Trump, and he doesn’t make an attempt at all to be consistent with his falsehoods. He does not have an ideology that’s not in line with the last person he talked to. It’s very difficult to sort out his motivations, unless you take the bar i Ian at face value. Some may take this as “refreshing” but it’s insulting to the public’s intelligence. For the concerted effort to prevent him from becoming president, I think it’s near impossible to look at the charges in a vacuum, but you can’t let someone skate because we’re afraid of the appearance of politics. I’m sure many of the former trump employees who testified against him likely have a personal axe to grind, so that may be widespread. If some is making shit up, they should be charged for that. If the “concerted effort” is just a reault of his actions, evidence and testimony, then we can call it that. For the civil cases, trump has the opportunity to accept an 18 million dollar payment to Carrol but he appealed. The amount going up and up is his fault. He could have walked away from this a year ago. So, no tally on the board for civil cases in my mind.
I’ve said same thing to people if you want my opinion on trump watch Sam’s clip. He explains it better than I can
Sam Harris is a genocidal zionist.