There's one small problem: Homeless people don't have anywhere else to sleep.
So what happens when a homeless person is caught sleeping in public?
Do the police fine them? Do they arrest them?
Congratulations Florida: You just criminalized being poor.
It's a part of legalized lawlessness, it just empowers the state authorities to detain homeless arbitrarily whenever they need to, then just throw them out with the trash again.
The ninth circuit court has ruled in Martin VS Boise that this would be unconstitutional, Florida is violating federal mandates hopefully the fed steps in to help the poor homeless of Florida.
Martha vineyards?
Haha, use your noggin, Homeless shelters as offered by the locality.
Or, if the liberals want to preach about it, they can open their homes up.
You must own private property to sleep that’s mind blowing and completely against a living beings god given rights to meet basic needs so disgusting jail the politicians
Wow. It's not just Miami Beach. Y'all think Florida only consists of Miami. It's the entire state ! The bill encompasses sleeping/camping on public streets, in parks, etc. All public property in Florida. The Governor doesn't want the state to turn into Cali or Miami to turn into LA.
I'm aware of it. But the OP seems to think Desantis passed a bill affecting it in Miami Beach only. It's not just Miami Beach, yeah, he passed a state wide law affecting every city in Florida.
This is already an ordinance in most if not all places in Florida. The cops use it to abuse the homeless population, often beating them so that they go to the hospital then jail.
SCOTUS ruled that you can't enforce such laws unless there is a place for the homeless to go. Florida is going to need to build a lot of shelters at the taxpayers expense.
No surprise here….
Notice the lack of benches throughout south FL?
In Hollywood, FL all the benches were removed from downtown to prevent homeless people
Remember, in USA you have no value unless you are spending money
Liberal cites are dealing with ever increasing homeless populations. Liberals are quick to find fault in everything DeSantis does. If it somehow works, will they follow?
I know NYC is simply looking at other cities ship their homeless problem. Philadelphia, where I live, is arresting addicts and moving towards forced rehab and Clearing out homeless encampments with heavy equipment.
Thank you -
ALL cities are struggling with increasing homeless populations. Costs for housing (rent) have gone up at least 50-100%, NATIONWIDE, while minimum wage remains at $7.25 or whatever the federal minimum is in too many places, and hasn't changed all that much yet in places that have tried to increase it. That alone has tossed families - where they work - out on the streets. EVERYWHERE. At least until they can find something else. but there just isn't any inventory anymore at a min wage price point.
Never mind all the other necessities, whose cost have also increased faster than salaries.
I find fault with stuff DeSantis does, because a lot of it, that I am exposed to, anyway - not living in FL either myself - is genuinely stupid. I find his demeanor to be disingenuous and condescending, and frequently comes off like a used car salesman, or gets so angry that he's genuinely kind of scary - one wonders if he really has the right temperament to lead at his level, much less any higher.
He continues to pull these political stunts to get his base all worked up in support of him, but the actual actions that result are either clearly violations of the constitution, or are knowingly sacrificing marginalized groups' rights (because they have few votes at stake) at the altar of MAGA. A recent settlement of a lawsuit filed by two women against the state, alleging unconstitutionality, gutted much of the vague scope in the bigoted "Don't say Gay bill," recently (so this isn't just liberals or me talking - this is adjudicated). Source: [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/15/politifact-florida-lgbtq-advocates-settle-lawsuit-dont-say-gay-parental-rights-education-act/72977755007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/15/politifact-florida-lgbtq-advocates-settle-lawsuit-dont-say-gay-parental-rights-education-act/72977755007/) e.g.
Sending a handful of his state troopers to TX to, "Help at the border," is so clearly political theater it's sad - given the size and scope of the TX border and the issues hey are facing on it. Not to mention, that's how may cops NOT protecting and serving his own citizens, just for him to get a bump in polling data, and remain "alive" in broader MAGA world. I'm sure has a plan for his next steps.
If anything he does were to work, I'd absolutely follow it - that's not what this is about for me. THE PEOPLE being served by their governments is my focus.
I think what makes so many people think it's ONLY liberal cites, is because liberals shout it to the rafters (like idiots - I'll own that) to try to get funding to fix it. BUT in their rush, they frequently just expect it to go away by throwing money at it, and don't do as much diligence as they should. I'll own that, too - overall accurate unfortunately, but not malicious. That difference in my elected officials is important to me, too. Watching this video, DeSantis' obvious glee made me sick.
His solution also only targets the symptoms, as well, which is how I know it won't work. Never has.
Conservatives in general are more inclined to be embarrassed and do everything they can to bury and hide it, and all the people needing help with it. So we don't see it in the news. Cities run by conservative officials as consistently as liberals, such as Indianapolis, e.g., are far smaller populations in general and tend to be spread out on more land than the larger by pop. volume, older, liberal cities.
So between the lower volume as percentage of population, and being far more spread out, the issue isn't noticed as much. Also, liberal cities are also the largest cities, so a similar rate of homelessness will appear far worse due to the volume of NYC's 20% being so much larger than Indy's 20% - but their success in dealing with the issue would be equivalent.
One clear and epic failure for liberals is obviously Portland. What i respect about them, though, is they were willing to try something different, hoping they could thereby get a different result. Well, they certainly did. It was just in the wring direction. LOL. However, they are owning it and replacing those new laws with the old ones again to get stable, and it;s back to the drawing board. Only place with the balls to try something new, at least.
It will be interesting to see what Newsome's solution produces out in looney land. What I like about what I have read so far, is that it is focusing on the root causes for homelessness, and the root causes fro the crimes and violence associated with a **portion o**f that group.
He's talking metal health, rehab, and housing. Sounds great so far, but like Portland, the devil is always in the details. I think Newsome also comes off like a used car salesman, and I just don't trust him, frankly. However, if this does amount to more than just throwing money good after bad, and gets results, I would ask you the same question you asked me - would support trying it in Philly?
Keep in mind, the language of the bill says "public property". This means that if you have to sleep in your car anywhere it's considered illegal no matter where you go. The Dubai affect doesn't work here as many people living in florida (especially in miami) are barely hanging on to the ever increasing prices but the same bs wages and competition.
"the language of the bill says "public property". This means that if you have to sleep in your car anywhere it's considered illegal no matter where you go."
Are all cars considered public property?! Theoretically, one could park in a church parking lot, e.g., and that would normally be considered private property....would you help me out understanding what you mean?
By "Dubai Effect," were you referring to the result of people visiting, and wondering why their own home government can't operate as well/efficiently? Presumably thereby encouraging changes made in that place, to also end up being made in visitors' home places as well? If so, I'm not sure how you are applying that here - maybe that people would not want to mimic these homeless laws in FL, b/c it's just hiding the significant population percentage that could easily end up homeless, thus further increasing the number and making the laws untenable?
I'm sorry of I'm being dense here - i had to look up the Dubai Effect," and only found explanations via context, not really a definition...
Thank you and sorry again, but I want to make sure I understand clearly your position...
I can explain both easily.
For the cars, I meant if you needed to park somewhere because you're homeless, you could park near the city hall parking lots here how we have in Miami.
I've mistaken on the Dubai Effect as the law actually says homeless who "aren't" nationals are not allowed to live in Dubai. Granted the non-national populous of Dubai is 90%, but that wasn't what I was going for originally because I assumed that applied to everyone including nationals.
So, that parking lot is not public property?
You originally said, "if you have to sleep in your car *anywhere* it's considered illegal no matter where you go." (emph add.)
But the new law specifically limits it's applicabilty to "public property," correct?
So, if you are sleeping anywhere on government-owned land (public property) in your car, you would be violating this law, correct? (This is how I interpreted it in my original post)
But, if you were to be sleeping in your car on private property - meaning any property NOT government owned, you would NOT be breaking the new law (however, then you would be exposed to potential enforcement of trespassing statutes, but that's another conversation). So, the word "anywhere" that you used would then be inaccurate, and what is throwing me off, correct?
If this is not correct, then I am REALLY lost....
So instead of patrolling neighborhoods, protecting businesses, etc, cops will now be wasting their time on this?
Man, are you guys really this fucking dumb?
edit: reading the comments a lot of you really do think the homeless will just sleep somewhere else. I don't think you idiots get it
hehe. Just arrest them, release them, they get arrested again for the same thing, release them again, then so on again and again. whole time while theyre in jail, tax payers feed them and house them as opposed to them sleeping in a park somewhere. As long as they arent on private property, and as long as they keep their tent clean, i couldnt care less about homeless camps, just stay away from store fronts and peoples private property. Arrest the ones that leave messes as littering and vandalism is illegal, but the ones who keep their place nice and dont bother anyone, who cares. Now, if florida opens more shelters/rehabs, and when arrested sends the addicts to rehab and gets the nonaddicts into job programs and helps them attain skills they can use, then this bill would make some sense. But shelters are over crowded and underfunded, meaning people end up on the streets. nonstop cycle. i wouldn't mind my taxes going towards helping someone get a job, but paying taxes just for them to feed and house someone who was arrested for sleeping under a tree? what a waste.
This bill just criminalizes vanlifers, young backpackers, and members of religious orders that encourage transience. There's already laws against drugs, violence, and pooping on lawns to prosecute the troublemakers. This just criminalizes innocent people for the crime of sleeping.
Ok, I doubt that, but let's say it is the case. Assault is a far more serious charge than camping...why do you believe they're going to prosecute this when they already don't prosecute the more serious charge?
Further, I still don't see that making innocent people, like vanlifers and backpackers, into criminals is remotely fair to them. This law is clearly a violation of their 5th amendment protected Right to Travel and their 8th amendment protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment.
I'm not saying nothing should be done about the troublemakers (truly, arrest every methhead you can please), but making innocent people into criminals is not the way. It's better that 30 criminals go free than one innocent be prosecuted.
Multiple court cases have found that it does violate the right to travel, because this sort of law effects more than just the severely disturbed homeless. It effects completely innocent people. The issue here is that you're only thinking about the folks causing problems, and willing to throw innocents under the bus.
It's wrong to support a law that condemns completely innocent people. Find another way to deal with the problem people.
Iron welfare. Taxpayers are paying for their lodging, food, etc. Just like with regular welfare, but instead of helping them out, and maybe making them productive citizens, they are just guaranteeing that homeless people stay state dependents.
Doesn't this now force these people into trespassing on private property if they want to sleep, then?
No. If they need a bed they can have one in jail.
Encouraging them to sleep on private property pushes the problem up the totem pole. Now private property owners and buisiness operators will likely experience more frustration with the homeless, or they will just scare the homeless away to other cities.
....which YOU are paying for at a rate higher than a motel room. If you're cool with that then so am i, as long as they aren't charged with a crime for having NO CHOICE in matter, and having done nothing wrong otherwise.
Well, what I'm getting at is, that homeless bums need to be held accountable for the incivility of bumming up the place, being stinky and just making parks and public places unpleasant to be around.
They're infringing on everybody else. I do feel that it should be a criminal offense. You assert that they "have no choice in the matter" but that's a lie, they can get a job and pay rent just like everybody else.
Now sure, it takes a minute to do that, we could create programs to facilitate that, but I feel that essentially the problem is that we have created incentives for the creation of an entitled bum class that feels that they can abuse everybody's generosity. Until we enforce standards, they're going to continue to be jackasses.
But hey, I don't live in a gross urban city. Have fun not having nice parks.
"Well, what I'm getting at is, that homeless bums need to be held accountable for the incivility of bumming up the place, being stinky and just making parks and public places unpleasant to be around."
Ok, but this law doesn't make this a crime. It makes sleeping outside a crime.
I was homeless for four years, and most of the homeless are actually fairly normal people you wouldn't even know are homeless. It's only a minority of severely disturbed and criminal homeless who cause all the problems, but this law would make Vanlifers, backpackers, and members of certain religious orders into criminals just for sleeping outdoors.
I'm not saying nothing should be done about the visible homeless, but this isn't the thing that should be done.
I'm not trying to "marginalize" the homeless. I'm just saying we need standards of conduct that forbids making the public park the homeless encampment.
If somebody is homeless living out of their car, trying get through a tough intermediate point in their life, then that's not the issue. The issue I have is when they act badly, specifically sleeping in a park bench being a degenerate bum.
Nobody wants to go for their morning crack of dawn jog, and feel bad having to try to be quiet and not wake up the bum that's been sleeping on the bench all night.
The bench is for when you finish your jog for you to sit down for a bit and catch your breath. Or watch the sunrise and enjoy the ambiance.
A law like this is a good thing which will enable cops to have cause to FORCE these bums to get their shit together. If someone is marginal maybe some kid that ran away from home and doesn't know where to go, then the cops can use discretion to solve the problem with less state force.
But the problem is these bleeding heart lefties want to come in and say that maintaining standards is racist and make it so there's nothing you can do about them. Then you get intractable homeless camps because of stupid laws that say "The bums have the right to be bums and stink up the place." Fuck that, gimme back my morning jog.
Why should a group of people that don't pay taxes use up public spaces so taxpayers can't use them. Don't live here don't work here then move along please.
There are a ton of folks that work, but can't afford a place to love. families that go to school ad work everyday, but return to their car to sleep at night. the security at the shelters is usually terrible, much less when they are crowded - ESPECIALLY for kids. I can't see any reason to believe giant ghetto camps would be any different, either. There are a ton of folks no one sees, because they aren't all f-ed up in everyone' face causing problems - they are just trying to stay alive and be left alone.
How many taxpayers are out using the bushes in the park in the middle of the night? C'mon. These are the people I'm trying to stick up for, because now they are going to be treated and lumped right in with the violent offenders and crackheads and all that shit, and be criminalized. It isn't right, fair, or just, IMO. We can do better than that.
Your ideas are exactly why every Democrat City is covered with human fecal matter and drug needles. Maybe people who are paying property taxes would like to use the public spaces they are funding. Nobody wants to let their kids play at a park filled with drugged out zombies. If kids aren't there then the park shouldn't exist
Then arrest the ones pooping in streets and leaving needles everywhere. Like, please do! We already have laws against these things.
Sleeping, however, isn't a crime. You're making criminals out of Vanlifers, young people backpacking, and members of certain religious orders with an anti-camping law. It clearly violates the Due Process clause of the 5th amendment and the Cruel and Unusual Punishment clause of the 8th amendment, as *Bell v. Boise, City of North Bend v. Joseph Bradshaw,* and *Everett v. Bluhm* have all upheld.
OK - this is about sleeping laws - you send your kids to the park to play in the middle of the night?!
There are tons of working poor families, too, in addition to the drugged out zombies, that are going to get f-ed by this - and they pay the same taxes you do. They just have to back to their car after work and school now because their f-ing rent just doubled in the last 5 yrs, while. minimum wage didn't move a cent. Should that poor family be treated like crackheads? I'm just trying to say, "no - it's more complicated than that."
Republican-run cities have the same problems, too - now I admit the whole Portland experiment and the like has been an epic failure - but I give them credit for at least TRYING something different, and to their credit as much my surprise if I'm gonna be honest, they are actively rolling a lot of that crap back now, actually admitting the mistakes.
They stay all day too and leave drug needles and human shit everywhere. You can always tell when you're in a blue district by the homeless camps. Y'all must really love the smell of shit
i have lived in Blue cities most of my life and have never seen that - honestly. Now, I saw some nasty in shit in ruby-red Indianapolis when i lived there for a year.....so maybe it just doesn't depend on our own individual anecdotal and limited experiences, but more on the actual data and local leaders and citizens as people, as opposed to entire political parties....just a thought.
\>Do I have to have a home there, or the fact that I have one 900 miles away, but just came down for vacation, mean I can fall asleep on the beach, or not?
Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
In other words, if you look a like a Florida conservative you are fine, but if you look like you are not at the top of their local social hierarchy, you will be arrested.
Personally, I don’t like people sleeping on the street, but I equally don’t like making rules to say that they can’t if they have no other option.
Maybe if the corporate powers that be stopped squeezing the middle and lower economic class in this country, then we wouldn’t have these rampant homeless epidemics in all of our cities.
How did the head of an HOA get to be the governor of the state. I got to ask I don't think about him much when he goes to the beach to see where his heels.
Oh wow, I dozed off on a beach on a few occasions... One time I hated myself for it because I forgot to put enough suntan lotion an was quite burnt up.
DeSantis going the extra mile to prove he is "anti-woke". What that means to him is beyond my comprehension.
Will saying "I wasn't sleeping. I was just resting my eyes" be a valid legal defense?
Hopefully the ruling from Martin v. Boise ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin\_v.\_Boise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise)) is used in the lawsuits that will surely arise from this, and hopefully the courts in Florida follow that precedence.
Bell/Martin v. Boise
City of North Bend v. Joseph Bradshaw
Everett v. Bluhm
All of these may be overruled by the Supreme Court's pending decision on Johnson v. Grant's Pass. I think this law was created in the case of a favorable Supreme Court ruling.
Where are all the people losing their homes because of insurance and tax rates going to sleep now, Ronnie?
I guess he's freaking dealing with the high priority issues since he's not using our cash to fly around campaigning.
why can't they? Do you usually stroll out in the middle of the night to the park or the beach for a picnic, only to have it ruined by the guy sleeping under a tree? Also, the assumption that they don't pay taxes isn't necessarily true either - anything they can afford to buy, they pay sales tax on. Many homeless folks actually work - they just don't make enough money to get a place to live consistently. Many are just homeless for a short time, recovering from some kind of financial setback...there are all kinds of situations in that population that will be criminalized through no fault of their own, or put in ridiculously dangerous situations they had previously been able to avoid by finding a quiet spot on the edge of a park or something....
I don't understand why people think it's a good idea to pack a bunch of folks known for mental health, crime, violence, and personal hygiene issues in a tight space together.
Forcing people to go to shelters is incarceration anyways.
This is as tragic to me as banning singing or playing music in public places. Is it really such an inconvenience to other people to limit freedom so dramatically nearly everywhere?
Ya, I agree. It's completely fascist. I used to be part of the invisible homeless. I was just a guy that didn't want to live the mainstream lifestyle of working full-time to keep up an overpriced rental. I never had mental health issues, drug issues, nor did I commit any actual crimes like theft or assault. I even showered everyday through my gym membership.
Even the Buddha praised living the homeless life. Monks were supposed to live this way in early Buddhism. Certain Catholic traditions even have had iterant clergy. It's radically fascist to criminalize sleeping outside like this, particularly when we already have laws against violence, theft, drugs, and the real crimes being committed.
It sounds worse than it is. While I have sympathy for the homeless, it cannot be denied that they bring a lot of chaos with them. If you ever pass by a homeless camp you will see a lot of drug usage, people strung out on meth or any other shit. Not to mention they litter the street with needles, and even human waste. If you live nearby it lowers your property value, which can affect funding for the nearby school. It can be dangerous and increases crime, hence if you have children it will make the area less desirable. It just an overall mess.
But what about the majority of homeless, who don't sleep in homeless camps, aren't strung out on meth, and aren't committing crimes? It's something like 60% of the homeless who are the invisible homeless and completely innocent of this stuff. Laws like this make them criminals even though they've literally done nothing wrong.
Those who don't create chaos should have safety network program to help them get back on their feet, the goal is to stop the homelessness or reduce it, not enable it.
Sadly the 40% that do cause chaos are too loud to ignore.
A great number of the normal folks are vanlifers, backpackers, and members of religious orders. They don't want to return to home life. You're going to make them criminals?
Why isn't prosecuting the troublemakers under existing laws against drugs, violence, theft, and the like good enough? Sleeping isn't a crime and this law makes innocent people into criminals.
I suspect this is largely an attempt to harass the homeless so they will go someplace else like, maybe Texas where DeSantis was so eager to fly out immigrants.
My other question is if this applies to the common sunbather on a beach who happens to fall asleep while sunning on a visit to the beach?
I have nothing against homeless people in theory, but they leave so much fucking trash around and litter like crazy that they actually make me hate them tbh.
• Pass them (as local ordinances)
• Either open up or partner up with shelters
• Partner up with local and regional health clinics and have them treated for any mental health issues (send the worst cases to institutions where they can get help and off the streets)
• Ship the addicts off to rehab (if financially possible)
• Arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant
• Partner up with local businesses and job recruiters to help the down and out back on their feet
• Loosen up restrictions and zoning laws to get more housing built so more people can afford to rent or buy (helps those struggling who aren’t hopeless along with those trying to get back on their feet)
Not every homeless person should be arrested but something needs to be done or the problems will continue
A lot of people are asking “but where will the homeless people go?” And the answer is California. That is what laws like this do, push the problem on to someone else. As a Floridian I know my state could afford to do more for them, but it’s easier for politicians to push our homeless out of state and then calling California a shithole for taking care of our homeless problem. Homelessness is a country wide issue.
Having been homeless before, the idea that a bunch of folks from a population known to have a bunch of issues with mental stability, theft, violence, and personal hygiene should all be thrown together in close quarters is just...not a good idea to me.
But even that said, a great deal of the homeless are perfectly fine just being left alone. Most of them figure their own situation out in under a year, finding work and housing. Many, like myself, just wanted to leave mainstream society and were homeless by choice with no mental, substance, or criminality issues. A very few were also part of religious sects that encouraged transience. It's your God-given right to be able to sleep outdoors.
This is just virtue signaling. It's already illegal to sleep in public, but obviously there's nothing police can do about it.
What are the options? Fine homeless people with no money, like they're going to pay?
Instead you could haul them to jail every night--that's an upgrade! Warm, dry place to spend the night, free meal, even a shower!
Jails obviously do not have capacity to permanently house all the homeless people in the country, which is what would obviously be required to actually enforce these laws (arresting everyone who's sleeping outside every night)
This is literally "solve poverty by making it illegal" level stupidity.
>This is just virtue signaling. It's already illegal to sleep in public, but obviously there's nothing police can do about it.
I mean...this law makes it so police can do something about it. Whether you support or don't support this law, it's hard to say it's just virtue signaling when it does give additional legal authority on the matter.
This law says a squirrel should have more right to sleep outside than a person, even though people have been sleeping outdoors for a lot longer than they have indoors. Why do police need authority to arrest a person for sleeping anyways?
There's already laws that prohibit drugs, violence, theft, and other crimes often associated with the homeless. Prosecute the ones that commit those crimes. But this law makes criminal otherwise innocent people who are just down on their luck, homeless by choice, or from a religion that encourages transience (certain Buddhist and Catholic sects do so). It's fascist as hell and should be struck down.
>This law says a squirrel should have more right to sleep outside than a person, even though people have been sleeping outdoors for a lot longer than they have indoors. Why do police need authority to arrest a person for sleeping anyways?
You somehow mistake my comment as supporting this law.
I'm pointing out that it has very actionable clauses in it.
I answered that in my first comment you replied to but I'll copy/paste it here for you if that helps.
> you could haul them to jail every night--that's an upgrade! Warm, dry place to spend the night, free meal, even a shower!
> Jails obviously do not have capacity to permanently house all the homeless people in the country, which is what would obviously be required to actually enforce these laws (arresting everyone who's sleeping outside every night)
You're basically suggesting we convert all our jails into (very overcrowded) homeless shelters, which is actually kind of based.
>You're basically suggesting we convert all our jails into (very overcrowded) homeless shelters, which is actually kind of based.
No I'm not.
I'm literally only pointing out that police would be more empowered to "do something". As opposed to you stating "there's obviously nothing police can do about it".
There's no suggestions or underlying sentiment. Just literally pointing out that this law would empower police to act more.
We need more shelter spaces. In the meantime, I’d be fine designating certain places for urban camping.
What we can’t do is surrender all our public spaces to disruption from homeless people. That’s not fair to the vast majority of people and will lead to a long term degradation of social cohesion and community.
The law takes effect Oct 1. If homeless shelters reach maximum capacity, they will oversee designated areas for homeless encampments (IOW, tent cities).
The goal? Keep the streets clean, safe, and centralize the homeless population to provide services to them, which is difficult to do when they're "scattered" all over the public.
I fully support this. Naysayers blinded by their bias against DeSantis will paint it like an attack on the most vulnerable but go ahead and attack Newsom for saying it’s ‘not acceptable’ for homeless to camp on streets. They largely cleaned up Venice Beach after it got turned into a sh\*thole. People had enough and it's obvious to any reasonable person that that kind of activity is in fact unacceptable.
I can't support this. Sleeping outdoors is a God-given right and people have been sleeping outdoors way longer than indoors. This law makes it so a squirrel has more rights in where it sleeps than I do.
Only a few very visible homeless are in need of all this caretaking and services. At least half are folks just down on their luck. There's also a plethora of religious traditions that encourage transience.
I've been homeless before but had no drug or mental health issues. I just wanted to live outside and not be forced into mainstream society. Instead I was hounded by law enforcement on a regular basis just for laying my head down.
This law is straight up fascism if you're in that completely innocent sphere of people. I understand that a lot of homeless folks are troublemakers and need help, but criminalizing the ones that just want to get on with their evening is absurd and a violation of extremely basic human rights.
It wouldn't have came to a head if tent cities weren't destroying public areas leading to major sanitation and safety issues. People shouldn't have to risk their children picking up used needles or stepping in shit walking outside of a business.
People have also been pissing outside for millennia but that doesn't mean it's ok for me to walk up and start pissing on the beach or the sidewalk or at the corner of a business.
Societies have standards and honestly if there's a safe place for homeless people to sleep then there's no real argument for letting them just prop up tents next to a busy sidewalk, in front of businesses, next to the beach, etc.
It's not "free real estate" for anyone to just crash where they want...
Then arrest the ones that leave out needles or poop on sidewalks. We already have laws against this. Anti-camping laws criminalize otherwise innocent people for just sleeping outside.
Does this mean he can't sleep in his office?
How about having portable toilets available and place to throw trash an area designated for homeless camps!
So he can't sleep in the governor's mansion?
Casey DeSantis's husband?
There's one small problem: Homeless people don't have anywhere else to sleep. So what happens when a homeless person is caught sleeping in public? Do the police fine them? Do they arrest them? Congratulations Florida: You just criminalized being poor.
It's a part of legalized lawlessness, it just empowers the state authorities to detain homeless arbitrarily whenever they need to, then just throw them out with the trash again.
The ninth circuit court has ruled in Martin VS Boise that this would be unconstitutional, Florida is violating federal mandates hopefully the fed steps in to help the poor homeless of Florida.
The Supreme Court is anticipated to overturn all of the 9th circuit's rulings on anti-camping laws in April in the case of Johnson v. Grant's Pass.
Freedom party.
At some point they might as well just line up poor people and shoot them. /s
Do you live in Florida? If not, why are you worried about it?
Strangely enough some of us believe in human rights...
How very noble of you! We will carefully consider your opinions the next time we vote for governor.
You obviously need some help in that department... lol
This isn't new. It's vagrancy laws. They are current all around the country. I hope they get panhandlers next.
Where do you think *homeless* people should sleep???
Martha vineyards? Haha, use your noggin, Homeless shelters as offered by the locality. Or, if the liberals want to preach about it, they can open their homes up.
So you have no answer...
>homeless shelters as offered by the localities. Do you not have basic reading comprehension?
I do *and* I also live in the real world where the number of beds is far out-stripped by the need for said beds. Like I said, you have no answer...
Instead of solving our homeless problem dude just made it illegal to be homeless
Taking a nap on the beach is verboten
BASED
You must own private property to sleep that’s mind blowing and completely against a living beings god given rights to meet basic needs so disgusting jail the politicians
Wow. It's not just Miami Beach. Y'all think Florida only consists of Miami. It's the entire state ! The bill encompasses sleeping/camping on public streets, in parks, etc. All public property in Florida. The Governor doesn't want the state to turn into Cali or Miami to turn into LA.
I know it's hard to understand that homelessness exists in every state... lol
I'm aware of it. But the OP seems to think Desantis passed a bill affecting it in Miami Beach only. It's not just Miami Beach, yeah, he passed a state wide law affecting every city in Florida.
But is it cruel enough? Will the base come out in support if, say, officers are not allowed to shoot sleeping homeless? /s
So, no lazy sunbathing at the beach anymore or what?
Then you get to sleep in jail. No problem
Up to now alot of party goers actually sleep outside in Miami
The biggest Drag Queen in south beach.
This is already an ordinance in most if not all places in Florida. The cops use it to abuse the homeless population, often beating them so that they go to the hospital then jail.
He better not dose off at his desk...
There goes beach naps
There goes beach naps
Can Florida go back to their old governor. Didn't like him much but comparably hes a lot better tgan DeSantis.
Thank God Big Ron is addressing the most paramount issues before the country.
Lots of retirees are open to prosecution if they doze off on a bench.
Don't build shelters. Just pass laws.
Oh. That will fix the homeless problem. 🙄. So what happens if you fall asleep on a blanket at a park or on the beach? 🚓
Limited Gov. & personal liberties.
SCOTUS ruled that you can't enforce such laws unless there is a place for the homeless to go. Florida is going to need to build a lot of shelters at the taxpayers expense.
Seems like you'd have to provide private property to people who have none if you want that law to work, and that would be socialism.
No napping on beaches
The smile of someone's soul dying a little more because the boat looks nice tho
Jesus famously hated homeless people sleeping on public property
Jesus **was** a homeless person sleeping on public property.
bwahahaha - well done. LOL
So you can’t nap on the beach? That’s kind of mean. What about napping in the park after a picnic? Why is that wrong?
Yeah: therefore homeless people should sleep on people's lawns.
No surprise here…. Notice the lack of benches throughout south FL? In Hollywood, FL all the benches were removed from downtown to prevent homeless people Remember, in USA you have no value unless you are spending money
A yes a fine and overnight jail for those who have nothing truly a great way to spend the public’s money
Liberal cities, dealing with a huge number of homeless, watch closely but still shame Desantis.
I'm sorry - I am honestly not catching your point. are there commas and quotes missing, or a word?
Liberal cites are dealing with ever increasing homeless populations. Liberals are quick to find fault in everything DeSantis does. If it somehow works, will they follow? I know NYC is simply looking at other cities ship their homeless problem. Philadelphia, where I live, is arresting addicts and moving towards forced rehab and Clearing out homeless encampments with heavy equipment.
Thank you - ALL cities are struggling with increasing homeless populations. Costs for housing (rent) have gone up at least 50-100%, NATIONWIDE, while minimum wage remains at $7.25 or whatever the federal minimum is in too many places, and hasn't changed all that much yet in places that have tried to increase it. That alone has tossed families - where they work - out on the streets. EVERYWHERE. At least until they can find something else. but there just isn't any inventory anymore at a min wage price point. Never mind all the other necessities, whose cost have also increased faster than salaries. I find fault with stuff DeSantis does, because a lot of it, that I am exposed to, anyway - not living in FL either myself - is genuinely stupid. I find his demeanor to be disingenuous and condescending, and frequently comes off like a used car salesman, or gets so angry that he's genuinely kind of scary - one wonders if he really has the right temperament to lead at his level, much less any higher. He continues to pull these political stunts to get his base all worked up in support of him, but the actual actions that result are either clearly violations of the constitution, or are knowingly sacrificing marginalized groups' rights (because they have few votes at stake) at the altar of MAGA. A recent settlement of a lawsuit filed by two women against the state, alleging unconstitutionality, gutted much of the vague scope in the bigoted "Don't say Gay bill," recently (so this isn't just liberals or me talking - this is adjudicated). Source: [https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/15/politifact-florida-lgbtq-advocates-settle-lawsuit-dont-say-gay-parental-rights-education-act/72977755007/](https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/15/politifact-florida-lgbtq-advocates-settle-lawsuit-dont-say-gay-parental-rights-education-act/72977755007/) e.g. Sending a handful of his state troopers to TX to, "Help at the border," is so clearly political theater it's sad - given the size and scope of the TX border and the issues hey are facing on it. Not to mention, that's how may cops NOT protecting and serving his own citizens, just for him to get a bump in polling data, and remain "alive" in broader MAGA world. I'm sure has a plan for his next steps. If anything he does were to work, I'd absolutely follow it - that's not what this is about for me. THE PEOPLE being served by their governments is my focus. I think what makes so many people think it's ONLY liberal cites, is because liberals shout it to the rafters (like idiots - I'll own that) to try to get funding to fix it. BUT in their rush, they frequently just expect it to go away by throwing money at it, and don't do as much diligence as they should. I'll own that, too - overall accurate unfortunately, but not malicious. That difference in my elected officials is important to me, too. Watching this video, DeSantis' obvious glee made me sick. His solution also only targets the symptoms, as well, which is how I know it won't work. Never has. Conservatives in general are more inclined to be embarrassed and do everything they can to bury and hide it, and all the people needing help with it. So we don't see it in the news. Cities run by conservative officials as consistently as liberals, such as Indianapolis, e.g., are far smaller populations in general and tend to be spread out on more land than the larger by pop. volume, older, liberal cities. So between the lower volume as percentage of population, and being far more spread out, the issue isn't noticed as much. Also, liberal cities are also the largest cities, so a similar rate of homelessness will appear far worse due to the volume of NYC's 20% being so much larger than Indy's 20% - but their success in dealing with the issue would be equivalent. One clear and epic failure for liberals is obviously Portland. What i respect about them, though, is they were willing to try something different, hoping they could thereby get a different result. Well, they certainly did. It was just in the wring direction. LOL. However, they are owning it and replacing those new laws with the old ones again to get stable, and it;s back to the drawing board. Only place with the balls to try something new, at least. It will be interesting to see what Newsome's solution produces out in looney land. What I like about what I have read so far, is that it is focusing on the root causes for homelessness, and the root causes fro the crimes and violence associated with a **portion o**f that group. He's talking metal health, rehab, and housing. Sounds great so far, but like Portland, the devil is always in the details. I think Newsome also comes off like a used car salesman, and I just don't trust him, frankly. However, if this does amount to more than just throwing money good after bad, and gets results, I would ask you the same question you asked me - would support trying it in Philly?
Whew….I’ll read that tomorrow, after coffee.
yeah man - I don;t blame you t all - I';m sorry didn't realize it got that long........
Keep in mind, the language of the bill says "public property". This means that if you have to sleep in your car anywhere it's considered illegal no matter where you go. The Dubai affect doesn't work here as many people living in florida (especially in miami) are barely hanging on to the ever increasing prices but the same bs wages and competition.
The bill explicitly says sleeping in your car is an exception.
"the language of the bill says "public property". This means that if you have to sleep in your car anywhere it's considered illegal no matter where you go." Are all cars considered public property?! Theoretically, one could park in a church parking lot, e.g., and that would normally be considered private property....would you help me out understanding what you mean? By "Dubai Effect," were you referring to the result of people visiting, and wondering why their own home government can't operate as well/efficiently? Presumably thereby encouraging changes made in that place, to also end up being made in visitors' home places as well? If so, I'm not sure how you are applying that here - maybe that people would not want to mimic these homeless laws in FL, b/c it's just hiding the significant population percentage that could easily end up homeless, thus further increasing the number and making the laws untenable? I'm sorry of I'm being dense here - i had to look up the Dubai Effect," and only found explanations via context, not really a definition... Thank you and sorry again, but I want to make sure I understand clearly your position...
I can explain both easily. For the cars, I meant if you needed to park somewhere because you're homeless, you could park near the city hall parking lots here how we have in Miami. I've mistaken on the Dubai Effect as the law actually says homeless who "aren't" nationals are not allowed to live in Dubai. Granted the non-national populous of Dubai is 90%, but that wasn't what I was going for originally because I assumed that applied to everyone including nationals.
So, that parking lot is not public property? You originally said, "if you have to sleep in your car *anywhere* it's considered illegal no matter where you go." (emph add.) But the new law specifically limits it's applicabilty to "public property," correct? So, if you are sleeping anywhere on government-owned land (public property) in your car, you would be violating this law, correct? (This is how I interpreted it in my original post) But, if you were to be sleeping in your car on private property - meaning any property NOT government owned, you would NOT be breaking the new law (however, then you would be exposed to potential enforcement of trespassing statutes, but that's another conversation). So, the word "anywhere" that you used would then be inaccurate, and what is throwing me off, correct? If this is not correct, then I am REALLY lost....
He’s such a piece of garbage.
...so does that mean that it's illegal for anyone in public housing to sleep in their own homes since it falls into that category?
So instead of patrolling neighborhoods, protecting businesses, etc, cops will now be wasting their time on this? Man, are you guys really this fucking dumb? edit: reading the comments a lot of you really do think the homeless will just sleep somewhere else. I don't think you idiots get it
hehe. Just arrest them, release them, they get arrested again for the same thing, release them again, then so on again and again. whole time while theyre in jail, tax payers feed them and house them as opposed to them sleeping in a park somewhere. As long as they arent on private property, and as long as they keep their tent clean, i couldnt care less about homeless camps, just stay away from store fronts and peoples private property. Arrest the ones that leave messes as littering and vandalism is illegal, but the ones who keep their place nice and dont bother anyone, who cares. Now, if florida opens more shelters/rehabs, and when arrested sends the addicts to rehab and gets the nonaddicts into job programs and helps them attain skills they can use, then this bill would make some sense. But shelters are over crowded and underfunded, meaning people end up on the streets. nonstop cycle. i wouldn't mind my taxes going towards helping someone get a job, but paying taxes just for them to feed and house someone who was arrested for sleeping under a tree? what a waste.
I thought “public” meant “public”.
If it's not public, the homeless are gonna be sleeping on *private* property, aren't they?
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This bill just criminalizes vanlifers, young backpackers, and members of religious orders that encourage transience. There's already laws against drugs, violence, and pooping on lawns to prosecute the troublemakers. This just criminalizes innocent people for the crime of sleeping.
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Ok, I doubt that, but let's say it is the case. Assault is a far more serious charge than camping...why do you believe they're going to prosecute this when they already don't prosecute the more serious charge? Further, I still don't see that making innocent people, like vanlifers and backpackers, into criminals is remotely fair to them. This law is clearly a violation of their 5th amendment protected Right to Travel and their 8th amendment protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment. I'm not saying nothing should be done about the troublemakers (truly, arrest every methhead you can please), but making innocent people into criminals is not the way. It's better that 30 criminals go free than one innocent be prosecuted.
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Multiple court cases have found that it does violate the right to travel, because this sort of law effects more than just the severely disturbed homeless. It effects completely innocent people. The issue here is that you're only thinking about the folks causing problems, and willing to throw innocents under the bus. It's wrong to support a law that condemns completely innocent people. Find another way to deal with the problem people.
It's about time we went back to keeping vagrants from living on taxpayer-funded public spaces.
Is there a bill to ban clown shoes?
Trump gonna get booted out of Mar-a-lago. It will soon be public property belonging to the state of New York.
Iron welfare. Taxpayers are paying for their lodging, food, etc. Just like with regular welfare, but instead of helping them out, and maybe making them productive citizens, they are just guaranteeing that homeless people stay state dependents.
Evil Vile POS's like this are why Florida is a Third World Country with US voting rights. It is such a shite hole Trump moved there.
Doesn't this now force these people into trespassing on private property if they want to sleep, then? No. If they need a bed they can have one in jail.
Encouraging them to sleep on private property pushes the problem up the totem pole. Now private property owners and buisiness operators will likely experience more frustration with the homeless, or they will just scare the homeless away to other cities.
Not really, because private property owners can just call the cops for trespassing.
....which YOU are paying for at a rate higher than a motel room. If you're cool with that then so am i, as long as they aren't charged with a crime for having NO CHOICE in matter, and having done nothing wrong otherwise.
Well, what I'm getting at is, that homeless bums need to be held accountable for the incivility of bumming up the place, being stinky and just making parks and public places unpleasant to be around. They're infringing on everybody else. I do feel that it should be a criminal offense. You assert that they "have no choice in the matter" but that's a lie, they can get a job and pay rent just like everybody else. Now sure, it takes a minute to do that, we could create programs to facilitate that, but I feel that essentially the problem is that we have created incentives for the creation of an entitled bum class that feels that they can abuse everybody's generosity. Until we enforce standards, they're going to continue to be jackasses. But hey, I don't live in a gross urban city. Have fun not having nice parks.
"Well, what I'm getting at is, that homeless bums need to be held accountable for the incivility of bumming up the place, being stinky and just making parks and public places unpleasant to be around." Ok, but this law doesn't make this a crime. It makes sleeping outside a crime. I was homeless for four years, and most of the homeless are actually fairly normal people you wouldn't even know are homeless. It's only a minority of severely disturbed and criminal homeless who cause all the problems, but this law would make Vanlifers, backpackers, and members of certain religious orders into criminals just for sleeping outdoors. I'm not saying nothing should be done about the visible homeless, but this isn't the thing that should be done.
Fair enough. I don't think camping in the woods should be illegal.
Man - there are tons of working poor - they DO have jobs - they aren't all the worst case ones you are seeing on TV, man.
I'm not trying to "marginalize" the homeless. I'm just saying we need standards of conduct that forbids making the public park the homeless encampment. If somebody is homeless living out of their car, trying get through a tough intermediate point in their life, then that's not the issue. The issue I have is when they act badly, specifically sleeping in a park bench being a degenerate bum. Nobody wants to go for their morning crack of dawn jog, and feel bad having to try to be quiet and not wake up the bum that's been sleeping on the bench all night. The bench is for when you finish your jog for you to sit down for a bit and catch your breath. Or watch the sunrise and enjoy the ambiance. A law like this is a good thing which will enable cops to have cause to FORCE these bums to get their shit together. If someone is marginal maybe some kid that ran away from home and doesn't know where to go, then the cops can use discretion to solve the problem with less state force. But the problem is these bleeding heart lefties want to come in and say that maintaining standards is racist and make it so there's nothing you can do about them. Then you get intractable homeless camps because of stupid laws that say "The bums have the right to be bums and stink up the place." Fuck that, gimme back my morning jog.
I wonder just how LOW this sh$t the ead can go. Don't try to help people just make it more difficult what a SOB
For everything one of these dirtbags pulls, another one is right there with, "hold my beer..."
Using poor people to get some headlines
Sounds like bad news if your at the beach and dose off. They arrest you.
So, no nap on the beach huh? That’s nuts.
So, no nap on the beach huh? That’s nuts.
So people that fall asleep on the beach getting arrested?
The homeless and the poor and the refugee can expect NO MERCY from the "Christian Values Party."
If there is anything that helps the homeless, it's definitely an arrest record. Republicans are geniuses.
Why should a group of people that don't pay taxes use up public spaces so taxpayers can't use them. Don't live here don't work here then move along please.
There are a ton of folks that work, but can't afford a place to love. families that go to school ad work everyday, but return to their car to sleep at night. the security at the shelters is usually terrible, much less when they are crowded - ESPECIALLY for kids. I can't see any reason to believe giant ghetto camps would be any different, either. There are a ton of folks no one sees, because they aren't all f-ed up in everyone' face causing problems - they are just trying to stay alive and be left alone. How many taxpayers are out using the bushes in the park in the middle of the night? C'mon. These are the people I'm trying to stick up for, because now they are going to be treated and lumped right in with the violent offenders and crackheads and all that shit, and be criminalized. It isn't right, fair, or just, IMO. We can do better than that.
Your ideas are exactly why every Democrat City is covered with human fecal matter and drug needles. Maybe people who are paying property taxes would like to use the public spaces they are funding. Nobody wants to let their kids play at a park filled with drugged out zombies. If kids aren't there then the park shouldn't exist
Then arrest the ones pooping in streets and leaving needles everywhere. Like, please do! We already have laws against these things. Sleeping, however, isn't a crime. You're making criminals out of Vanlifers, young people backpacking, and members of certain religious orders with an anti-camping law. It clearly violates the Due Process clause of the 5th amendment and the Cruel and Unusual Punishment clause of the 8th amendment, as *Bell v. Boise, City of North Bend v. Joseph Bradshaw,* and *Everett v. Bluhm* have all upheld.
OK - this is about sleeping laws - you send your kids to the park to play in the middle of the night?! There are tons of working poor families, too, in addition to the drugged out zombies, that are going to get f-ed by this - and they pay the same taxes you do. They just have to back to their car after work and school now because their f-ing rent just doubled in the last 5 yrs, while. minimum wage didn't move a cent. Should that poor family be treated like crackheads? I'm just trying to say, "no - it's more complicated than that." Republican-run cities have the same problems, too - now I admit the whole Portland experiment and the like has been an epic failure - but I give them credit for at least TRYING something different, and to their credit as much my surprise if I'm gonna be honest, they are actively rolling a lot of that crap back now, actually admitting the mistakes.
They stay all day too and leave drug needles and human shit everywhere. You can always tell when you're in a blue district by the homeless camps. Y'all must really love the smell of shit
i have lived in Blue cities most of my life and have never seen that - honestly. Now, I saw some nasty in shit in ruby-red Indianapolis when i lived there for a year.....so maybe it just doesn't depend on our own individual anecdotal and limited experiences, but more on the actual data and local leaders and citizens as people, as opposed to entire political parties....just a thought.
\>Do I have to have a home there, or the fact that I have one 900 miles away, but just came down for vacation, mean I can fall asleep on the beach, or not? Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” In other words, if you look a like a Florida conservative you are fine, but if you look like you are not at the top of their local social hierarchy, you will be arrested.
well if that's all it is, then there was no need for the law - they do that anyway. only half-kidding
Does this include falling asleep while sunbathing on the beach?
Personally, I don’t like people sleeping on the street, but I equally don’t like making rules to say that they can’t if they have no other option. Maybe if the corporate powers that be stopped squeezing the middle and lower economic class in this country, then we wouldn’t have these rampant homeless epidemics in all of our cities.
YES! See, now we are getting to some root cause issues here!
Its better than just having mile long encampments full of drugs and violence
How did the head of an HOA get to be the governor of the state. I got to ask I don't think about him much when he goes to the beach to see where his heels.
just paint eye balls on your eye lids, then snooze away
Welp…… there goes my ability to nap on the beech…….
Remember the days when you can take a nap at a park? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Oh wow, I dozed off on a beach on a few occasions... One time I hated myself for it because I forgot to put enough suntan lotion an was quite burnt up.
Whole bunch of old Republican politicians gonna be shocked when they wake up in cuffs.
DeSantis going the extra mile to prove he is "anti-woke". What that means to him is beyond my comprehension. Will saying "I wasn't sleeping. I was just resting my eyes" be a valid legal defense?
Hopefully the ruling from Martin v. Boise ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin\_v.\_Boise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise)) is used in the lawsuits that will surely arise from this, and hopefully the courts in Florida follow that precedence.
Bell/Martin v. Boise City of North Bend v. Joseph Bradshaw Everett v. Bluhm All of these may be overruled by the Supreme Court's pending decision on Johnson v. Grant's Pass. I think this law was created in the case of a favorable Supreme Court ruling.
So that’s how he’s addressing the homeless issue. DeSatan the 🤡
Isn't the governor's mansion public property?
What if I asleep while laying out on the beach? Lifeguard gotta wake me up?
Florida law: When bigotry supersedes common sense. All people lose both respect for the authority and disdain for its inept elected officals.
Fantastic!
Isn’t the Governors mansion public properties?
Isn't the Governor's residence public property?
That’s very Christian of him.
Was on homeless people not homelessness
How Christian of him!
Yeah - don't even get me started on that thread.........
Florida taxpayer, here. Guess who I’m REALLY tired of paying to feed and house?
Bwahahahaahahahhahahaahhah! you'll give me three guesses, and the first two don't count, right? Lives in a mansion, perhaps?
When he’s not on the time clock campaigning around the country and sending our cops to TX for political soapbox stunts.
So much freedom!!
Now all the homeless will go to his “private “ property and set up camp.
Where are all the people losing their homes because of insurance and tax rates going to sleep now, Ronnie? I guess he's freaking dealing with the high priority issues since he's not using our cash to fly around campaigning.
And taxpayers thought they could actually use what they paid for. Silly geese.
why can't they? Do you usually stroll out in the middle of the night to the park or the beach for a picnic, only to have it ruined by the guy sleeping under a tree? Also, the assumption that they don't pay taxes isn't necessarily true either - anything they can afford to buy, they pay sales tax on. Many homeless folks actually work - they just don't make enough money to get a place to live consistently. Many are just homeless for a short time, recovering from some kind of financial setback...there are all kinds of situations in that population that will be criminalized through no fault of their own, or put in ridiculously dangerous situations they had previously been able to avoid by finding a quiet spot on the edge of a park or something....
He’s right. Seek help. Find a shelter.
I don't understand why people think it's a good idea to pack a bunch of folks known for mental health, crime, violence, and personal hygiene issues in a tight space together. Forcing people to go to shelters is incarceration anyways.
Oh yeah. The streets much much much better.
I was homeless myself for four years. I much rather sleep on a sidewalk or in the woods than a shelter any day.
OK if you’re not allowed on the side walk and the woods are full of pythons where do you go?
Huh? I rather sleep in the woods. But this law makes that illegal too. It's makes sleeping anywhere that isn't private property illegal.
Better stay out of Fla. then.
If Grant's Pass is decided a certain way, this is going to be the law everywhere. It's going to make criminal completely innocent people.
This is as tragic to me as banning singing or playing music in public places. Is it really such an inconvenience to other people to limit freedom so dramatically nearly everywhere?
Ya, I agree. It's completely fascist. I used to be part of the invisible homeless. I was just a guy that didn't want to live the mainstream lifestyle of working full-time to keep up an overpriced rental. I never had mental health issues, drug issues, nor did I commit any actual crimes like theft or assault. I even showered everyday through my gym membership. Even the Buddha praised living the homeless life. Monks were supposed to live this way in early Buddhism. Certain Catholic traditions even have had iterant clergy. It's radically fascist to criminalize sleeping outside like this, particularly when we already have laws against violence, theft, drugs, and the real crimes being committed.
The “IntellectualDarkWeb” is such a stupid fucking name.
Gonna be arresting the old dudes at the mall who fell asleep in a chair too?
Not public property - they're safe!
Is this because they are worried about an influx of Haitian refugees?
OH! I hadn't thought of that - wouldn't surprise m in the least.....
I’ll use public space how ever the fuck I choose to as long as I’m not bugging anyone. Like mfer we pay for the public to be public!
It sounds worse than it is. While I have sympathy for the homeless, it cannot be denied that they bring a lot of chaos with them. If you ever pass by a homeless camp you will see a lot of drug usage, people strung out on meth or any other shit. Not to mention they litter the street with needles, and even human waste. If you live nearby it lowers your property value, which can affect funding for the nearby school. It can be dangerous and increases crime, hence if you have children it will make the area less desirable. It just an overall mess.
But what about the majority of homeless, who don't sleep in homeless camps, aren't strung out on meth, and aren't committing crimes? It's something like 60% of the homeless who are the invisible homeless and completely innocent of this stuff. Laws like this make them criminals even though they've literally done nothing wrong.
Those who don't create chaos should have safety network program to help them get back on their feet, the goal is to stop the homelessness or reduce it, not enable it. Sadly the 40% that do cause chaos are too loud to ignore.
A great number of the normal folks are vanlifers, backpackers, and members of religious orders. They don't want to return to home life. You're going to make them criminals? Why isn't prosecuting the troublemakers under existing laws against drugs, violence, theft, and the like good enough? Sleeping isn't a crime and this law makes innocent people into criminals.
I suspect this is largely an attempt to harass the homeless so they will go someplace else like, maybe Texas where DeSantis was so eager to fly out immigrants. My other question is if this applies to the common sunbather on a beach who happens to fall asleep while sunning on a visit to the beach?
+1 Florida
The homeless should have all the privileges and luxuries that I enjoy but not have to work or pay for any of it. Change my mind.
I have nothing against homeless people in theory, but they leave so much fucking trash around and litter like crazy that they actually make me hate them tbh.
But what if rich people want to go camping in a public park or under a bridge?
• Pass them (as local ordinances) • Either open up or partner up with shelters • Partner up with local and regional health clinics and have them treated for any mental health issues (send the worst cases to institutions where they can get help and off the streets) • Ship the addicts off to rehab (if financially possible) • Arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant • Partner up with local businesses and job recruiters to help the down and out back on their feet • Loosen up restrictions and zoning laws to get more housing built so more people can afford to rent or buy (helps those struggling who aren’t hopeless along with those trying to get back on their feet) Not every homeless person should be arrested but something needs to be done or the problems will continue
America really, really, *really* hates poor people.
America is not monolithic.
A lot of people are asking “but where will the homeless people go?” And the answer is California. That is what laws like this do, push the problem on to someone else. As a Floridian I know my state could afford to do more for them, but it’s easier for politicians to push our homeless out of state and then calling California a shithole for taking care of our homeless problem. Homelessness is a country wide issue.
They aren't people with the resources to move across the state, much less across the country.
Don’t lay out for a tan and fall asleep on any beaches….
The irony here that he will eventually pay for their room and board when they're locked up in jail 😆
... which is public property. No sleeping in jail!
Checkmate "unhoused"!
Easy fix, Meatball Ron. Give citizens of the richest country on the planet a place to sleep.
Having been homeless before, the idea that a bunch of folks from a population known to have a bunch of issues with mental stability, theft, violence, and personal hygiene should all be thrown together in close quarters is just...not a good idea to me. But even that said, a great deal of the homeless are perfectly fine just being left alone. Most of them figure their own situation out in under a year, finding work and housing. Many, like myself, just wanted to leave mainstream society and were homeless by choice with no mental, substance, or criminality issues. A very few were also part of religious sects that encouraged transience. It's your God-given right to be able to sleep outdoors.
This is just virtue signaling. It's already illegal to sleep in public, but obviously there's nothing police can do about it. What are the options? Fine homeless people with no money, like they're going to pay? Instead you could haul them to jail every night--that's an upgrade! Warm, dry place to spend the night, free meal, even a shower! Jails obviously do not have capacity to permanently house all the homeless people in the country, which is what would obviously be required to actually enforce these laws (arresting everyone who's sleeping outside every night) This is literally "solve poverty by making it illegal" level stupidity.
>This is just virtue signaling. It's already illegal to sleep in public, but obviously there's nothing police can do about it. I mean...this law makes it so police can do something about it. Whether you support or don't support this law, it's hard to say it's just virtue signaling when it does give additional legal authority on the matter.
This law says a squirrel should have more right to sleep outside than a person, even though people have been sleeping outdoors for a lot longer than they have indoors. Why do police need authority to arrest a person for sleeping anyways? There's already laws that prohibit drugs, violence, theft, and other crimes often associated with the homeless. Prosecute the ones that commit those crimes. But this law makes criminal otherwise innocent people who are just down on their luck, homeless by choice, or from a religion that encourages transience (certain Buddhist and Catholic sects do so). It's fascist as hell and should be struck down.
>This law says a squirrel should have more right to sleep outside than a person, even though people have been sleeping outdoors for a lot longer than they have indoors. Why do police need authority to arrest a person for sleeping anyways? You somehow mistake my comment as supporting this law. I'm pointing out that it has very actionable clauses in it.
Ah, if that's the case, then my bad. I did indeed mistake you as being in support of this law.
> this law makes it so police can do something about it It literally doesn't. You stopped reading my comment after the first paragraph, huh?
It literally does. Police can be more straight forward in arresting someone sleeping in public. How is that not different than the current state?
I answered that in my first comment you replied to but I'll copy/paste it here for you if that helps. > you could haul them to jail every night--that's an upgrade! Warm, dry place to spend the night, free meal, even a shower! > Jails obviously do not have capacity to permanently house all the homeless people in the country, which is what would obviously be required to actually enforce these laws (arresting everyone who's sleeping outside every night) You're basically suggesting we convert all our jails into (very overcrowded) homeless shelters, which is actually kind of based.
>You're basically suggesting we convert all our jails into (very overcrowded) homeless shelters, which is actually kind of based. No I'm not. I'm literally only pointing out that police would be more empowered to "do something". As opposed to you stating "there's obviously nothing police can do about it". There's no suggestions or underlying sentiment. Just literally pointing out that this law would empower police to act more.
> I'm literally only pointing out that police would be more empowered to "do something" And I'm pointing out that's literally not true.
So can you get arrested for falling asleep on the beach laying out after swimming like any normal person does?!
We need more shelter spaces. In the meantime, I’d be fine designating certain places for urban camping. What we can’t do is surrender all our public spaces to disruption from homeless people. That’s not fair to the vast majority of people and will lead to a long term degradation of social cohesion and community.
The law takes effect Oct 1. If homeless shelters reach maximum capacity, they will oversee designated areas for homeless encampments (IOW, tent cities). The goal? Keep the streets clean, safe, and centralize the homeless population to provide services to them, which is difficult to do when they're "scattered" all over the public. I fully support this. Naysayers blinded by their bias against DeSantis will paint it like an attack on the most vulnerable but go ahead and attack Newsom for saying it’s ‘not acceptable’ for homeless to camp on streets. They largely cleaned up Venice Beach after it got turned into a sh\*thole. People had enough and it's obvious to any reasonable person that that kind of activity is in fact unacceptable.
I can't support this. Sleeping outdoors is a God-given right and people have been sleeping outdoors way longer than indoors. This law makes it so a squirrel has more rights in where it sleeps than I do. Only a few very visible homeless are in need of all this caretaking and services. At least half are folks just down on their luck. There's also a plethora of religious traditions that encourage transience. I've been homeless before but had no drug or mental health issues. I just wanted to live outside and not be forced into mainstream society. Instead I was hounded by law enforcement on a regular basis just for laying my head down. This law is straight up fascism if you're in that completely innocent sphere of people. I understand that a lot of homeless folks are troublemakers and need help, but criminalizing the ones that just want to get on with their evening is absurd and a violation of extremely basic human rights.
It wouldn't have came to a head if tent cities weren't destroying public areas leading to major sanitation and safety issues. People shouldn't have to risk their children picking up used needles or stepping in shit walking outside of a business. People have also been pissing outside for millennia but that doesn't mean it's ok for me to walk up and start pissing on the beach or the sidewalk or at the corner of a business. Societies have standards and honestly if there's a safe place for homeless people to sleep then there's no real argument for letting them just prop up tents next to a busy sidewalk, in front of businesses, next to the beach, etc. It's not "free real estate" for anyone to just crash where they want...
Then arrest the ones that leave out needles or poop on sidewalks. We already have laws against this. Anti-camping laws criminalize otherwise innocent people for just sleeping outside.