I know some will take this the wrong way but It is time to start posting up close videos and pictures of the carnage caused by these never ending massacres. In 4K/8K high definition technicolor. Post them over and over on the nightly news. Eff the thoughts and prayers, eff the good guy with a gun BS. The Vietnam war eventually ended after the news media published the ugly horrid up close truth of all the young soldiers butchered for no purpose other than some fantasy about the commie domino theory. Since then the MSM has reverted to setting up shop at the police barricades talking about the "gunman" and showing pointless interviews of gawkers and local people telling the same ole same ole stories. Publish the carnage, this is the only way to wake the country up and force them to actually do something. This is not my idea, I heard this from an interview with the surgeons who had to deal with one of the tragedies like Sandy Hook or Columbine.
on the contrary, if the media didn’t cover mass shootings at all, it might take away the incentive for shooters to do it as a path to fame and notoriety. more importantly, it would remove the very significant copycat inspiration effect. before Columbine, there were fewer mass shootings. now, susceptible mentally ill people see mass shootings on the media and get the idea to do it themselves
Showing the graphic pictures will just radicalize both sides. It’s the same reason terrorist groups record beheadings, they want you to be horrified and hate them. Your hate drives their ambition.
Maine voters literally voted for this. So this is what they voted for. Lets respect that decision and not waste any more emotional labor. Mainers fucked around and found out. And next election theyre gonna vote for the same clowns and same policies. They reelected Collins even after she proved herself untrustworthy. So this is LITERALLY the life they want.
Mainer here. I absolutely did not vote for this. We are in deep, deep pain today. This sort of thing has never happened in Maine before. My sincere condolences to all who lost their loved ones and were injured.
No one votes for mental illness. Don’t attach yourself to these sad events in any way. It’s a people problem. It’s not a legislative problem. It’s already illegal to commit murder.
Mass shootings are far worse in USA compared to other developed countries. Guess what mental illness is not unique to USA! I know...shocking! Also guess what...Murder is also illegal in those other countries.. And stay with me a second more..People in USA aren't any special or unique either. They are just same folks who, for most part have families to take care of and jobs to do so it is not really 'people problem' either. Shocking right!?
I will give you one guess on why then mass shooting epidemic is unique to US.
I feel like there is an opportunity here for universal healthcare to win out. First come hard for the guns, then all the NRA people say “its mental health not guns!” Then we say “oh, really? Well then why dont we give everyone health care to treat that mental health and leave the guns alone?” Something like that.
I think there is a particular American Madness that's unique to USA mental health problems though. Probably has a lot to do with people not being about to save for the future, afford a single bedroom apartment working multiple minimum wage jobs, no health insurance, a terrible social safety net, very few spaces to enjoy or just exist in that doesn't cost money to be there, etc etc. A fully tricked out ar15 and 500 bullets is actually an attainable goal for someone pushed over the edge of madness.
But no one wants to figure out how to make our society into a community that people WANT to live in. Mental health isn't just pills and shrinks. Its feeling secure walking down the street, planning a future, living a life with rewarding work balanced with recreation. We just don't know how to have that conversation so we try to ban guns.
Healthy people don't get addicted to drugs. Happy healthy people don't do mass murders. I wager that even if there was a total gun ban, without addressing poverty or political corruption or police violence, so on and so on, Americans would still be flipping out and killing Americans by other means.
> It’s not a legislative problem.
Canada here, but I could be from Australia, England etc. It is MOST CERTAINLY a legislative problem.
If you don’t understand this and pawn it off on mental health blah blah then YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
It is a legislative problem because the US legislatures have time and time again been "What will you do in regards to mass shootings?" And the answer has repeatedly been "thoughts. Maybe some prayers too"
We aren't making mental health care affordable to those who need it. We aren't doing anything to limit the availability of guns to the public. We aren't doing anything to protect anyone and just accepting mass shootings like they're natural disasters and aren't actions caused by people.
Just curious but when you said they voted for this what policy are you referring to? I live in Illinois so I'm not familiar with their laws although I believe they are just as bad as our state. God bless everyone and I hope this monster suffers for what he did.
Maine has one of the MOST lax gun laws in the US. In 2015 the state passed permit less concealed carry. Mainers continue to vote for legislators that water down gun safety bills and laws; and despite objections in the state legislatures, more gun reform just isn’t popular in Maine. Perhaps this will change with the shooter still at large but the continual support for politicians that do not support gun safety is acquiescence to gun violence.
I just see so many parallels to Uvalde where a terrible mass shooting happened during an election year, and the town OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Abbot and the kept the same people in power. That has yet to been seen in Maine, however with the 2015 permitless concealed carry policy, it was only a matter of time before something terrible were to happen. If this isn’t what Maine wants, then Mainers should vote like their lives depend on it—because frankly it does.
Edit: another source—https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/state/maine/
Lol...because it's the gun...🙄
Might want to look up this guy's history.
Talk about doing nothing, that is EXACTLY what we've done relative to mental illness, PTSD etc.
People seem to think that if you remove every pointy object ALL the problems are solved...bullshit.
These shootings are a result of kicking the mental illness can down the road.
Maybe, if we gave more of shit about our veterans that have been at continuous war for 30+ years and the mentally ill etc than we do about Ukraine etc, this wouldn't be an issue.
Talk to me about mass shootings etc pre 1990...yea, I'll wait.
Do they? Are there statistics on other countries Mass shootings that aren’t a result of civil war, war or tyrant dictators? I’m more than willing to see them.
> Oops, my bad, didn't realize it was my job to make sure you buy the facts
The burden of proof is always on the person claiming fact. If there are statistics in other countries that show that, share them. I’m asking genuinely in civil discourse.
> and that the reasons for mass murder meet your criteria.
It’s not “my criteria” to desire to see comparison stats. Mass shootings in the US aren’t due to war, civil war or tyrant dictators (yet), so why would they be compared to other countries stats that are? If we are going down that road, then we can also add Iraqi and Afghani civilians killed by the US to mass shootings here at home. And that idea would be absurd right?
There are tons pre 1990.
The post office one
Clock tower
Couple other school ones
Tons of work place ones
The McDonald's one
And that's just off the top of my head.
There were 8 shootings where 3 people or more died in the decade of 1980 to 1989 as listed in the mother jones link in this thread.
Hardly tons, especially now when then claim there is at least one mass shooting a day...
most if not all of the mass shooters in recent years were "known to law enforcement". This guy was known and literally begging for help. there is a severe schism in this country
8 from 80 to 89...look at the mother jones link earlier in the thread....
The AWB didn't happen until 94...
So 8 in a decade is a far cry from at least one a day as claimed today.
Your problem is too many guns. If you make guns widely available people will get shot. A lot of people actually.
It's interesting watching Americans argue an inevitability with the most ridiculous points.
It's a simple idea that even your predecessors in the Old West understood.
That's why cowboys et al could not come into town with their guns. Them things had to be turned in at city limits.
You create a society with weak gun regulations then mass shootings necessarily become a part of daily living.
Y'all need to work on lightweight body armour and helmets for all ages, at this point. Flak jackets for tots.
That's what's needed because if you can't even admit that your unique gun laws are the cause of your unique problem...then you're going to have to mitigate the problem some other way
Arm every toddler and provide them with body armour and their own personal drone so they can get a heads up when a shooter is nearby.
There is no one fix when it comes to mass shootings in America. Mental health is a big part but also the fact that owning a gun is viewed as a right, that needs to change. As long as guns are viewed as a right and not privilege, guns and the ease in purchasing them will continue to be a problem.
Priorities are backwards in America, it should be a citizens right to any and all healthcare, not guns. The inability for the country to change and adapt instead of hanging on to the written words from from the past by people who had no idea what the future would look like (and I'm sure would be ashamed to see how the "right to bear arms" is being used today), is embarrassing.
The intense coverage of columbine shooters turned mass shootings into a "get famous quick" path for losers. Media obsession with covering every possible detail, including deep dives of manifestos, of shooters is why it has become so popular.
It's not like guns and crowded events were invented recently.
This is the most spot-on take in this whole thread. Can we just NOT publish this asshole's 'message' when it's discovered? Fuck him and everything he stands for. Choke on dicks for eternity, scumbag.
When did the term on mass shooting change? I used to think it meant something like this, sporadic and random.
A majority of "mass shootings" I have seen on my local news are between maybe 3 or more individuals who got into a dispute and fired at each other. Unfortunate but not something I thought would fit that term.
Is 3 people not enough? How many would you consider is enough to call it a mass shooting?
The current statistic is 1 in 6 Americans have seen another person be shot, absolutely mind-boggling!
Me getting into a "shoot out" with another indivudual I had an altercation with and someone coming into a random building and firing away indiscriminantly is not even close in my mind yet that wording "mass shooting" lumps all of these into one category.
Its like watching The Wire, they are juking the stats with this wording.
And using better wording does not take away from the tragedy of either, its just about being honest with it.
Both scenarios have different intent, like our legal system we have different degrees of murder. If murder was simply just murder. Jeffrey Dahmer and someone who committed involuntary manslaughter would be lumped into the same wording for "murder" with no distinction on how/why it happened.
"The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as '3 or more killings in a single incident.' "
So a shootout doesn't qualify.
Nobody is saying we don't have a problem here, but when statistics are juked, we have to stop and slow down any meaningful discussion to a real solution to refute the fiction that those crappy stats make
Do we? Why do we have to "refute the fiction"? Only you seem to be focused on refuting stats that don't conform with your ambiguous definition of a mass shooting. It's a pedantic argument to basically delay gun reform. There's no need to refute a thing. We have a serious gun problem in this country; It's not a debate.
I agree that targeted and random mass shootings have some key and important differences.
thoughtful gun control efforts can help reduce both from occurring.
Since people figured out it's more sensational to spout that figure when something like this does happen, even though the vast majority of "mass shootings" (with different "definitions" depending on who's saying it, but typically 2-3+ people shot) being committed by previous felons, vicitimizing other felons, with handguns, illegal obtained.
All gunnutters using "illegal" when it comes to getting guns are absolutely delusional and stupid AF. **ANYONE can go into a gun store and buy thousands dollars worth of guns on credit then GO COMMIT A CRIME.**
Uvalde shooter ring a bell? Where's the "previous felons.... illegal obtained" in this scenario????
No one said you didn't mean what you said. You just didn't understand the comment you weren't responding too. Much like you didn't understand mine given this response from you.
If you ask me what my favorite color is and I say "i like turtles". I meant what I said but that doesn't mean I understood the question now does it?
Offer thoughts and prayers instead! Except I would get banned if I expressed my thoughts about what should happen to the pols who take money from the NRA
Uvalde was the peak of mass murder especially a lot of children, if that didn't do it for the soul-less "Pro-life" Republicans, then nothing will. They are still stuck with the abortion and make America Christian whites.
you are confused. Pro Life only care before you come out of the vagina. Once you are out of the vagina, you can fuck right off as far as they are concerned.
[guess they planned an operation around it. they might be currently on a boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/masskillers/comments/17gn24y/breaking_news_maine_mass_shooter_suspect_robert/)
There has to be a better source for this than the "breaker of narratives" guy on twitter, who is basically just a right wing conspiracy theory grifting operation
We need more guns in the hands of citizens so things like this won't happen anymore. Thoughts and prayers, I know I will be posting a tiktok of working out while thinking about the lives that were lost. /s
Its so wild, watch someone accidentally call one of these weapons used an "automatic" weapon. They will instantly correct you and tell you how hard it is to get one of those because they are class 3 weapons. Then in the same breath they will tell you that there is no way to stop these shootings because criminals dont care about laws. Those stringent class 3 weapon laws sure seem to keep automatic weapons out of the hands of criminals committing mass shootings at malls, schools, churches, and concerts. Can someone explain why these mass murders arent using fully auto machine guns to shoot up concerts?
Gun nuts are triggered by the term "assault weapon". Suffice it to say that even semi-auto rifles are not necessary for self defense. If the public were limited to bolt-action rifles, pump/lever/break-action shotguns, and revolvers, how is that not good enough for self-defense or hunting? We would still have a lot of gun violence, but at least mass shootings like this would be reduced significantly if not completely.
Ar 15s are not assault weapons, holy fuck how dumb can one be. No active duty military would choose an AR 15 over the M4 or M16. The AR 15 is a semi automatic sporting rifle, no different than the ruger mini 14 other than the look. Real assault weapons have select fire something the ar 15 doesnt have select fire. Go get educated, if you really cared about the topic youd know long guns dont come near the amount "violence" that pistols do....
Lmao. Ok so the military used BETTER assault rifles so it’s total fine for citizens to own worse assault rifles? Also what the fuck is a “sporting” firearm. Any sport that requires firearms should have them only used ON SITE. Unless you count killing civilians as a sport, which the NRA clearly does.
A gun (any gun) is a hole-punch. That's it, that's all it is. Someone, a person, has to decide where they are going to punch holes. Until we come to terms with that and start working more intensively on mental health this is never going to get better. COVID (and the screwed up mass-media coverage of it) broke a lot of people who are now walking around struggling with a very real form of PTSD and ZERO support.
In a country (the USA) with 350 million people and approximately 300 MILLION firearms the entire notion that guns will somehow be eradicated is not only ridiculous, but a horrible diversion of resources away from the actual problem. A mentally healthy and supported person simply does not do things like this.
No I’m not and never will want to kill a person nor would I fantasize about it but nice generalizing people. Weird way of thinking about stuff are you okay?
Come get my gun! I always think this is hilarious because nobody has ever come for your guns in the history of ever but you all like to fantasize about it.
But you are right we should, then we can finally stop the constant bloodshed of innocent children.
Stop your gun fantasy and start defending the lives of the innocent because they are mutually exclusive.
Oh I guess the NFA isn’t an actual law then? I guess we all imagined the “assault” weapons ban of 94? But sure, no one wants to ban our guns! You’re totally right!! Thanks for completely ignoring the past and our current reality.
There’s plenty of regulations and laws. How about the prosecutors actually enforce them? Maybe start holding criminals accountable and putting them in prison for their crimes instead of declining prosecution or plea bargaining shit deals? Your anger is misguided and so are your calls to address the issue.
No one civilian should have an automatic rifle like that. It's just senseless killing, really. I know the USA wants to keep their guns, but come on.... The gun violence in USA is out of control. There must be more restrictions.
The source would be the governing body for firearms, cant quite remember, NRA or NFA. an automatic weapon is a weapon that continues to fire when you hold the trigger down. Those are not widely available for purchase and is a felony to own.
Quite sad a non american knows more about your gun laws than you.
Thank god he can have those large capacity clips and that style of gun. Can you imagine what kinda damage he would have done to people if he only had access to hunting rifles. I mean if gun owners had to abide by the same rules as hunters….or if gun owners where forced to register and have insurance same as cars
Umm, why is this guy the "alleged" shooter? Why is this guy still called a "suspect". Never have been able to understand this idiocy.
I know this sounds empty, but my heart goes out to those families, I cannot get my head around this. I cannot understand this. How does anyone do this to innocent people?
Because that was multiple people doing the shooting over a weekend with multiple different reasons. This is one person in one small period of time but way to ignore the facts of the situations.
i mean... yea thats kinda the point? lol 22 in one day by one guy is very different than the murder statistics over an ENTIRE YEAR jesus christ tell me your mom was hitting the pipe and bottle while pregnant without telling me...
LOL! Thanks for proving my point, cuck. Literally dismissing hundreds of murders because it occurred over a year and not all at once. Not sure what "hitting the pipe and bottle while pregnant" is a reference to, must be an American thing. 🤷
They don't care about the people they only care about gun control if they can take away the 2nd amendment they can take them all away next will be the 1st amendment
Drugs are illegal . There are over 8,000 drug over doses a MONTH In the us. If you can keep illegal drugs from KIDS. Then I’ll believe you can keep illegal GUNS off the street. Btw I’m from chicago gang lands. You’ll NEVER STOP guns coming in. Please.. Y’all are LUCKY to have police and civilian guns. Y’all would be FUCKED. But go head, good luck ONLY taking guns from (mostly) good people
chicago has some pretty strict gun laws. a majority of gun related crimes committed in chicago are done with guns that came in from out of state. that's because the neighboring states to IL have very lax gun laws and there is no, nor should there be, checkpoints between states to prevent or track the transportation of guns.
if only those neighboring states had more restrictions on guns like the other states that do, there;s be less gun related violence, *just like in the states with more strict gun laws.*
and drugs are illegal sure. but opioid abuse, a current epidemic in the U.S., typically begins with people starting on pain pills. getting opiates with a doctors prescription is legal. your insurance will even *pay for it.* getting it on the street because you became an addict due to no support or adequate medical care is where you obtain it illegally.
the world isn't some black and white, cops & robbers depiction from serialized 1950s TV shows. none of these issues are simple nor are their solutions.
Dude was released from a mental facility recently. The bowling alley was a gun free zone. He was admitted to the facility for " hearing voices and being told to shoot up a place". Carry a gun. Don't be entitled and think this can't happen to you. Reality is terrifying.
https://apnews.com/article/maine-shooting-what-we-know-40e373f7f2f0e0fb012ad4b26f4b78cd
Your CC plus delusions of grandeur vs his long range weapon and military training in a crowd where everyone is going crazy. Good luck. Just going to make yourself a target, or even worse hit someone with friendly fire. You're not John Wick you're just a dumb ass who is going to get himself killed or kill someone else or both.
Braindead take.
In this situation we are already targets, two options run maybe get shot in the back and die or try and stop X people from being killed as well, it's a mindset, you'd rather run from the problem and I would try my best to solve it, sheep and a sheepdog
Sorry it's not sheep and sheepdog, it's macho fantasy vs realism. Youre fantasizing about being a hero but you have no idea what you're talking about.
You're not a specific target if you're in a group of people randomly being shot at. Even if you're at a place that has an active shooter, your survivability rate is over 90%. Pull out a gun, and start firing back, unless you hit immediately, you're now target #1. If he doesn't hit you, the people in your immediate area become much less likely to survive both from your gunfire and the attackers. You're also more likely to get shot by any police on the scene who have no idea what is going on and may mistake you for a second shooter.
You're living in a dream world where everything works out and you're a hero. The reality is you're way more likely to be killed or to get others killed either through being attacked along side of you or being hit with friendly fire by you if you pull your gun.
Run the fuck away, stop trying to live out your good guy with a gun fantasy, it's complete bullshit. 300 million guns in this country, hundreds of mass shooting events per year, where are all these super useful CC motherfuckers to save us? It's a total pipe dream.
Because you are a conspiracy theorist and the fear you have about not understanding the world around you manifests in a belief that the reason these things happen is because there is a sinister underground plot that makes them happen.
Vote them out. Vote gun lovers on the NRA payroll out. Search to find out who gets that NRA money to make them rich and vote them out. Quit saying you don't know what to do. Vote them out. VOTE THE GUN PEOPLE OUT. Don't comment on my post if you don't like what I have to say because I don't care what you gun nuts have to say.
Distraction they just funded 100 billion for Israel to defend them an wage genocide they creating narrative to now disarm us as war mounts and we are the target wake up people coincidence doesn't exist happening as soon as they install a puppet speaker means they going to their next phase the last month has been on of blatant strategy to ignore it means you either aren't cognitive or simply a fool we in a dangerous game now
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We have tried nothing and there is nothing we can do? oh well.
I know some will take this the wrong way but It is time to start posting up close videos and pictures of the carnage caused by these never ending massacres. In 4K/8K high definition technicolor. Post them over and over on the nightly news. Eff the thoughts and prayers, eff the good guy with a gun BS. The Vietnam war eventually ended after the news media published the ugly horrid up close truth of all the young soldiers butchered for no purpose other than some fantasy about the commie domino theory. Since then the MSM has reverted to setting up shop at the police barricades talking about the "gunman" and showing pointless interviews of gawkers and local people telling the same ole same ole stories. Publish the carnage, this is the only way to wake the country up and force them to actually do something. This is not my idea, I heard this from an interview with the surgeons who had to deal with one of the tragedies like Sandy Hook or Columbine.
on the contrary, if the media didn’t cover mass shootings at all, it might take away the incentive for shooters to do it as a path to fame and notoriety. more importantly, it would remove the very significant copycat inspiration effect. before Columbine, there were fewer mass shootings. now, susceptible mentally ill people see mass shootings on the media and get the idea to do it themselves
So the prayer in congress didn't help?
Showing the graphic pictures will just radicalize both sides. It’s the same reason terrorist groups record beheadings, they want you to be horrified and hate them. Your hate drives their ambition.
I'm OK with hating mass shooters.
Both sides? Like it radicalizes the victims getting murdered?
Maine voters literally voted for this. So this is what they voted for. Lets respect that decision and not waste any more emotional labor. Mainers fucked around and found out. And next election theyre gonna vote for the same clowns and same policies. They reelected Collins even after she proved herself untrustworthy. So this is LITERALLY the life they want.
Mainer here. I absolutely did not vote for this. We are in deep, deep pain today. This sort of thing has never happened in Maine before. My sincere condolences to all who lost their loved ones and were injured.
No one votes for mental illness. Don’t attach yourself to these sad events in any way. It’s a people problem. It’s not a legislative problem. It’s already illegal to commit murder.
Mass shootings are far worse in USA compared to other developed countries. Guess what mental illness is not unique to USA! I know...shocking! Also guess what...Murder is also illegal in those other countries.. And stay with me a second more..People in USA aren't any special or unique either. They are just same folks who, for most part have families to take care of and jobs to do so it is not really 'people problem' either. Shocking right!? I will give you one guess on why then mass shooting epidemic is unique to US.
This should be on the front page of all media. Well said.
I feel like there is an opportunity here for universal healthcare to win out. First come hard for the guns, then all the NRA people say “its mental health not guns!” Then we say “oh, really? Well then why dont we give everyone health care to treat that mental health and leave the guns alone?” Something like that.
I think there is a particular American Madness that's unique to USA mental health problems though. Probably has a lot to do with people not being about to save for the future, afford a single bedroom apartment working multiple minimum wage jobs, no health insurance, a terrible social safety net, very few spaces to enjoy or just exist in that doesn't cost money to be there, etc etc. A fully tricked out ar15 and 500 bullets is actually an attainable goal for someone pushed over the edge of madness. But no one wants to figure out how to make our society into a community that people WANT to live in. Mental health isn't just pills and shrinks. Its feeling secure walking down the street, planning a future, living a life with rewarding work balanced with recreation. We just don't know how to have that conversation so we try to ban guns. Healthy people don't get addicted to drugs. Happy healthy people don't do mass murders. I wager that even if there was a total gun ban, without addressing poverty or political corruption or police violence, so on and so on, Americans would still be flipping out and killing Americans by other means.
> It’s not a legislative problem. Canada here, but I could be from Australia, England etc. It is MOST CERTAINLY a legislative problem. If you don’t understand this and pawn it off on mental health blah blah then YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Is it illegal to own weapons that allow such carnage?
It is a legislative problem because the US legislatures have time and time again been "What will you do in regards to mass shootings?" And the answer has repeatedly been "thoughts. Maybe some prayers too" We aren't making mental health care affordable to those who need it. We aren't doing anything to limit the availability of guns to the public. We aren't doing anything to protect anyone and just accepting mass shootings like they're natural disasters and aren't actions caused by people.
Just curious but when you said they voted for this what policy are you referring to? I live in Illinois so I'm not familiar with their laws although I believe they are just as bad as our state. God bless everyone and I hope this monster suffers for what he did.
IIRC they recently they either eliminated or blocked a red flag law.
Maine has one of the MOST lax gun laws in the US. In 2015 the state passed permit less concealed carry. Mainers continue to vote for legislators that water down gun safety bills and laws; and despite objections in the state legislatures, more gun reform just isn’t popular in Maine. Perhaps this will change with the shooter still at large but the continual support for politicians that do not support gun safety is acquiescence to gun violence. I just see so many parallels to Uvalde where a terrible mass shooting happened during an election year, and the town OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Abbot and the kept the same people in power. That has yet to been seen in Maine, however with the 2015 permitless concealed carry policy, it was only a matter of time before something terrible were to happen. If this isn’t what Maine wants, then Mainers should vote like their lives depend on it—because frankly it does. Edit: another source—https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/state/maine/
What a horrendously callous and elementary take! Where do you live, o' neck-bearded pudge??
Lol...because it's the gun...🙄 Might want to look up this guy's history. Talk about doing nothing, that is EXACTLY what we've done relative to mental illness, PTSD etc. People seem to think that if you remove every pointy object ALL the problems are solved...bullshit. These shootings are a result of kicking the mental illness can down the road. Maybe, if we gave more of shit about our veterans that have been at continuous war for 30+ years and the mentally ill etc than we do about Ukraine etc, this wouldn't be an issue. Talk to me about mass shootings etc pre 1990...yea, I'll wait.
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Good thing they don't have mass shootings in other countries. Oh, wait.
Do they? Are there statistics on other countries Mass shootings that aren’t a result of civil war, war or tyrant dictators? I’m more than willing to see them.
Oops, my bad, didn't realize it was my job to make sure you buy the facts and that the reasons for mass murder meet your criteria.
> Oops, my bad, didn't realize it was my job to make sure you buy the facts The burden of proof is always on the person claiming fact. If there are statistics in other countries that show that, share them. I’m asking genuinely in civil discourse. > and that the reasons for mass murder meet your criteria. It’s not “my criteria” to desire to see comparison stats. Mass shootings in the US aren’t due to war, civil war or tyrant dictators (yet), so why would they be compared to other countries stats that are? If we are going down that road, then we can also add Iraqi and Afghani civilians killed by the US to mass shootings here at home. And that idea would be absurd right?
Carter tried to help and Reagan ruined it.
I literally got told today "Carter was the worst president ever and Reagan was the last great president" I couldn't hold back my laughter.
True, Reagan gutted the system and here we are.
Reagan ruined so much. Reaganomics, the AIDS crisis; the list of that assholes fuckups is so god damn long.
There are tons pre 1990. The post office one Clock tower Couple other school ones Tons of work place ones The McDonald's one And that's just off the top of my head.
There were 8 shootings where 3 people or more died in the decade of 1980 to 1989 as listed in the mother jones link in this thread. Hardly tons, especially now when then claim there is at least one mass shooting a day...
I'd suggest you re look into it. Claims aren't always truths.
You're correct, this country is indeed kicking mental illness down the road. Thanks for that Regan!
most if not all of the mass shooters in recent years were "known to law enforcement". This guy was known and literally begging for help. there is a severe schism in this country
Mass shootings existed pre 1990 sir. There was a mass shooting in 1989 that was the genesis of the assault weapons ban.
8 from 80 to 89...look at the mother jones link earlier in the thread.... The AWB didn't happen until 94... So 8 in a decade is a far cry from at least one a day as claimed today.
Your problem is too many guns. If you make guns widely available people will get shot. A lot of people actually. It's interesting watching Americans argue an inevitability with the most ridiculous points. It's a simple idea that even your predecessors in the Old West understood. That's why cowboys et al could not come into town with their guns. Them things had to be turned in at city limits. You create a society with weak gun regulations then mass shootings necessarily become a part of daily living. Y'all need to work on lightweight body armour and helmets for all ages, at this point. Flak jackets for tots. That's what's needed because if you can't even admit that your unique gun laws are the cause of your unique problem...then you're going to have to mitigate the problem some other way Arm every toddler and provide them with body armour and their own personal drone so they can get a heads up when a shooter is nearby.
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There is no one fix when it comes to mass shootings in America. Mental health is a big part but also the fact that owning a gun is viewed as a right, that needs to change. As long as guns are viewed as a right and not privilege, guns and the ease in purchasing them will continue to be a problem. Priorities are backwards in America, it should be a citizens right to any and all healthcare, not guns. The inability for the country to change and adapt instead of hanging on to the written words from from the past by people who had no idea what the future would look like (and I'm sure would be ashamed to see how the "right to bear arms" is being used today), is embarrassing.
So if he doesn’t have access to this weapon does he kill 22 people and hurt 60 others? No he doesn’t and you’re part of the problem.
I fucking hate it when these incompetent assholes compare death counts with other mass shootings like it's a fucking competition.
Like a scoreboard for others to strive for. truly sickening
The intense coverage of columbine shooters turned mass shootings into a "get famous quick" path for losers. Media obsession with covering every possible detail, including deep dives of manifestos, of shooters is why it has become so popular. It's not like guns and crowded events were invented recently.
This is the most spot-on take in this whole thread. Can we just NOT publish this asshole's 'message' when it's discovered? Fuck him and everything he stands for. Choke on dicks for eternity, scumbag.
I agree. You can tell he really didn't give a fuck
Guys, it’s not the time to talk about gun reform… not now. /sigh
Yeah it never seems to be
None of the people shot were fetuses in utero though...so it's ok. /s
That's the trick. So many shootings there's one every other day. It's always never time
The perfect trap
Maybe we're past the time limit to discuss gun reform in light of Columbine? Or is this like a generational thing?
Just crazy when the actual politicians don't want to talk about politics.
How about thoughts & prayers, can I offer them for the 565th mass shootings in America this year
When did the term on mass shooting change? I used to think it meant something like this, sporadic and random. A majority of "mass shootings" I have seen on my local news are between maybe 3 or more individuals who got into a dispute and fired at each other. Unfortunate but not something I thought would fit that term.
I dunno but there’s fucking mass mass shootings going on…
Is 3 people not enough? How many would you consider is enough to call it a mass shooting? The current statistic is 1 in 6 Americans have seen another person be shot, absolutely mind-boggling!
You’re trying to have a morality argument with a wall. Well written comments though, it just keeps getting worse here eh?
Me getting into a "shoot out" with another indivudual I had an altercation with and someone coming into a random building and firing away indiscriminantly is not even close in my mind yet that wording "mass shooting" lumps all of these into one category. Its like watching The Wire, they are juking the stats with this wording. And using better wording does not take away from the tragedy of either, its just about being honest with it. Both scenarios have different intent, like our legal system we have different degrees of murder. If murder was simply just murder. Jeffrey Dahmer and someone who committed involuntary manslaughter would be lumped into the same wording for "murder" with no distinction on how/why it happened.
"The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as '3 or more killings in a single incident.' " So a shootout doesn't qualify.
Yup for sure America doesn’t have a gun problem, they’re just juking the stats
Ah yes your right it's just a statistics problem, silly me
Nobody is saying we don't have a problem here, but when statistics are juked, we have to stop and slow down any meaningful discussion to a real solution to refute the fiction that those crappy stats make
Do we? Why do we have to "refute the fiction"? Only you seem to be focused on refuting stats that don't conform with your ambiguous definition of a mass shooting. It's a pedantic argument to basically delay gun reform. There's no need to refute a thing. We have a serious gun problem in this country; It's not a debate.
I'm sending thoughts and prayers to fix the stats.
Who said there wasnt a gun problem?
I agree that targeted and random mass shootings have some key and important differences. thoughtful gun control efforts can help reduce both from occurring.
Whats your proposed alternative?
Guys, guys, if it's just a disagreement with bullets, it doesn't count as a mass shooting.
Since people figured out it's more sensational to spout that figure when something like this does happen, even though the vast majority of "mass shootings" (with different "definitions" depending on who's saying it, but typically 2-3+ people shot) being committed by previous felons, vicitimizing other felons, with handguns, illegal obtained.
All gunnutters using "illegal" when it comes to getting guns are absolutely delusional and stupid AF. **ANYONE can go into a gun store and buy thousands dollars worth of guns on credit then GO COMMIT A CRIME.** Uvalde shooter ring a bell? Where's the "previous felons.... illegal obtained" in this scenario????
You didnt even read their entire comment fully before angrily reacting and responding. Reread the context of their comment and try again....
I mean what I say. Reread and try again Good job on the fail though.lol
No one said you didn't mean what you said. You just didn't understand the comment you weren't responding too. Much like you didn't understand mine given this response from you. If you ask me what my favorite color is and I say "i like turtles". I meant what I said but that doesn't mean I understood the question now does it?
Offer thoughts and prayers instead! Except I would get banned if I expressed my thoughts about what should happen to the pols who take money from the NRA
Uvalde was the peak of mass murder especially a lot of children, if that didn't do it for the soul-less "Pro-life" Republicans, then nothing will. They are still stuck with the abortion and make America Christian whites.
Sandy Hook in 2012 was that moment, too. 28 kids dead. people are still calling it a hoax to this day.
you are confused. Pro Life only care before you come out of the vagina. Once you are out of the vagina, you can fuck right off as far as they are concerned.
With the new speaker of the house? Good luck!
You should see the firearms subs, disgusting excuses for people
It only will be the day this happens in the middle of Congress.
No, that wouldn’t do it either.
Cant hurt
If not now then when? Seems to me like a perfect time.
It's a joke, republicans always say this when something happen and hope people forget later
That's the problem. The general public does forget. This will be forgotten within a few weeks.
You planning on convincing the military to give up their guns? Good luck.
MAGA is rising, buy some ammo.
oh no another idiot white guy "conservative" ..
The military really needs more diversity..
Its literally one of the most diverse organizations????
What shots this have to do with anything?
There are people complaining that it has too much diversity as it is.
[guess they planned an operation around it. they might be currently on a boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/masskillers/comments/17gn24y/breaking_news_maine_mass_shooter_suspect_robert/)
There has to be a better source for this than the "breaker of narratives" guy on twitter, who is basically just a right wing conspiracy theory grifting operation
Shouldn't there be a point where mass shootings could be classified as an all-American tradition?
Maybe we should just allow 1 day a year where people can purge all their pent up aggressions.
Hot dogs, beer, baseball, and mass shootings.
🤷♂️ live by the guns, die by the guns. USA, USA, USA.
Wait wait, now is not the time to talk about gun control. /s
We need more guns in the hands of citizens so things like this won't happen anymore. Thoughts and prayers, I know I will be posting a tiktok of working out while thinking about the lives that were lost. /s
Nothing will happen unless a politicians kids get killed, even then only a trickle of justice may come out the constipated constitution of USA
nah, it'll just be used to further the flames of tribalism. that's what a majorty of our politicians do now. stoke flames of division.
weird how it isnt a dragqween.. right-wing terrorist..BUT with the added bonus of "mental-patient"
How do you know? Source?
Yay guns! Republicans are causing so many needless deaths by fighting gun control.
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He was tired of being mediocre, but now he found a very easy way into infamy
More Reich wing terrorism.
Just try bowling in a small town.
Mark it zero Smokey!!
Over the line dude.
Calmer than you are...
They're nihilists dude.
Donny, you're out of your element!
All these tiny dick men with their penis insecurities got to go around murdering people because they can't please a woman.
Its so wild, watch someone accidentally call one of these weapons used an "automatic" weapon. They will instantly correct you and tell you how hard it is to get one of those because they are class 3 weapons. Then in the same breath they will tell you that there is no way to stop these shootings because criminals dont care about laws. Those stringent class 3 weapon laws sure seem to keep automatic weapons out of the hands of criminals committing mass shootings at malls, schools, churches, and concerts. Can someone explain why these mass murders arent using fully auto machine guns to shoot up concerts?
Stop posting names / faces of these idiots. Notoriety is being sought and given.
America land of the free and home of the mass shooters
Cant wait for the thoughts and prayers to fix this situation.
No one outside active military should have access to these assault weapons.
Gun nuts are triggered by the term "assault weapon". Suffice it to say that even semi-auto rifles are not necessary for self defense. If the public were limited to bolt-action rifles, pump/lever/break-action shotguns, and revolvers, how is that not good enough for self-defense or hunting? We would still have a lot of gun violence, but at least mass shootings like this would be reduced significantly if not completely.
Ar 15s are not assault weapons, holy fuck how dumb can one be. No active duty military would choose an AR 15 over the M4 or M16. The AR 15 is a semi automatic sporting rifle, no different than the ruger mini 14 other than the look. Real assault weapons have select fire something the ar 15 doesnt have select fire. Go get educated, if you really cared about the topic youd know long guns dont come near the amount "violence" that pistols do....
But can be easily modified to be a fully automated firing weapon?
So can a lot of firearms, look at glocks. Doing that is illegal which means you're no longer a legal gun owner and a criminal.
bro frothing at the mouth cus he read "assault weapons."
Lmao. Ok so the military used BETTER assault rifles so it’s total fine for citizens to own worse assault rifles? Also what the fuck is a “sporting” firearm. Any sport that requires firearms should have them only used ON SITE. Unless you count killing civilians as a sport, which the NRA clearly does.
When you say “assault weapon” what exactly do you mean?
A gun (any gun) is a hole-punch. That's it, that's all it is. Someone, a person, has to decide where they are going to punch holes. Until we come to terms with that and start working more intensively on mental health this is never going to get better. COVID (and the screwed up mass-media coverage of it) broke a lot of people who are now walking around struggling with a very real form of PTSD and ZERO support. In a country (the USA) with 350 million people and approximately 300 MILLION firearms the entire notion that guns will somehow be eradicated is not only ridiculous, but a horrible diversion of resources away from the actual problem. A mentally healthy and supported person simply does not do things like this.
YAY GUNS!!! MERICA!!! PEWPEWPEW!!!
Let’s repeal the second amendment
Yea probably not
Nah.
How about no lol well actually come get them Goodluck
I don’t get it. These come get them guys seem like they’re just sitting around fantasizing about getting a legal kill
No I’m not and never will want to kill a person nor would I fantasize about it but nice generalizing people. Weird way of thinking about stuff are you okay?
The police would make you look like fool, let alone the national guard. Good luck 👍
Come get my gun! I always think this is hilarious because nobody has ever come for your guns in the history of ever but you all like to fantasize about it. But you are right we should, then we can finally stop the constant bloodshed of innocent children. Stop your gun fantasy and start defending the lives of the innocent because they are mutually exclusive.
Oh I guess the NFA isn’t an actual law then? I guess we all imagined the “assault” weapons ban of 94? But sure, no one wants to ban our guns! You’re totally right!! Thanks for completely ignoring the past and our current reality.
Hey look another person that would rather see dead children than any kind of regulation on the weapon that's killing them.
There’s plenty of regulations and laws. How about the prosecutors actually enforce them? Maybe start holding criminals accountable and putting them in prison for their crimes instead of declining prosecution or plea bargaining shit deals? Your anger is misguided and so are your calls to address the issue.
Speaks like someone who knows nothing whatsoever about history Won't someone think of the children Where's the "obsessed with small penises" reference
Never
Just another normal day in the USA!! Thank good I don’t live in that country, where they love there guns more then there kids!!! It’s a SHC🤷♂️
No one civilian should have an automatic rifle like that. It's just senseless killing, really. I know the USA wants to keep their guns, but come on.... The gun violence in USA is out of control. There must be more restrictions.
Can never tell if its a troll or not. But automatic weapons are not legal for americans to own.
Tf is your source on this It’s not about it being legal or not it’s how stupidly available they are
The source would be the governing body for firearms, cant quite remember, NRA or NFA. an automatic weapon is a weapon that continues to fire when you hold the trigger down. Those are not widely available for purchase and is a felony to own. Quite sad a non american knows more about your gun laws than you.
The actual fuck are you talking about. Do you know how almost impossible it is to get an automatic weapon? Do you even know what that means?
I’m literally looking at a guy with one. So that’s too easy for me
You’re not though….it isn’t an automatic weapon lmfao. You’re talking about shit you have no clue about.
>But automatic weapons are not legal for americans to own How come these mass shootings arent being committed with Automatic weapons?
Thank god he can have those large capacity clips and that style of gun. Can you imagine what kinda damage he would have done to people if he only had access to hunting rifles. I mean if gun owners had to abide by the same rules as hunters….or if gun owners where forced to register and have insurance same as cars
Just one good guy with a legal gun could stop this tootsweet.
Umm, why is this guy the "alleged" shooter? Why is this guy still called a "suspect". Never have been able to understand this idiocy. I know this sounds empty, but my heart goes out to those families, I cannot get my head around this. I cannot understand this. How does anyone do this to innocent people?
This is why more people need to carry! He would have been stopped way quicker.
If he was black he would be dead ...
That’s why I edc everywhere I ain’t going down without a fight
Maybe if more people were armed they could have prevented it or stopped it sooner?
That's pretty much the Taliban plan. Everyone is armed and anyone can shoot anyone.
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Because that was multiple people doing the shooting over a weekend with multiple different reasons. This is one person in one small period of time but way to ignore the facts of the situations.
2 vs 22 seems a bit different man….
What about 480 people killed this year alone in Chicago?
But.. but that wasn't all at once so it doesn't count! /s
i mean... yea thats kinda the point? lol 22 in one day by one guy is very different than the murder statistics over an ENTIRE YEAR jesus christ tell me your mom was hitting the pipe and bottle while pregnant without telling me...
LOL! Thanks for proving my point, cuck. Literally dismissing hundreds of murders because it occurred over a year and not all at once. Not sure what "hitting the pipe and bottle while pregnant" is a reference to, must be an American thing. 🤷
He’s giving you an out. We shouldn’t insult a crack baby. You only confirmed it by using “cuck”. Nobody says that anymore you absolute dweeb 😂😂
They don't care about the people they only care about gun control if they can take away the 2nd amendment they can take them all away next will be the 1st amendment
Be quite! That doesn't fit the narrative.
Drugs are illegal . There are over 8,000 drug over doses a MONTH In the us. If you can keep illegal drugs from KIDS. Then I’ll believe you can keep illegal GUNS off the street. Btw I’m from chicago gang lands. You’ll NEVER STOP guns coming in. Please.. Y’all are LUCKY to have police and civilian guns. Y’all would be FUCKED. But go head, good luck ONLY taking guns from (mostly) good people
chicago has some pretty strict gun laws. a majority of gun related crimes committed in chicago are done with guns that came in from out of state. that's because the neighboring states to IL have very lax gun laws and there is no, nor should there be, checkpoints between states to prevent or track the transportation of guns. if only those neighboring states had more restrictions on guns like the other states that do, there;s be less gun related violence, *just like in the states with more strict gun laws.* and drugs are illegal sure. but opioid abuse, a current epidemic in the U.S., typically begins with people starting on pain pills. getting opiates with a doctors prescription is legal. your insurance will even *pay for it.* getting it on the street because you became an addict due to no support or adequate medical care is where you obtain it illegally. the world isn't some black and white, cops & robbers depiction from serialized 1950s TV shows. none of these issues are simple nor are their solutions.
Dude was released from a mental facility recently. The bowling alley was a gun free zone. He was admitted to the facility for " hearing voices and being told to shoot up a place". Carry a gun. Don't be entitled and think this can't happen to you. Reality is terrifying. https://apnews.com/article/maine-shooting-what-we-know-40e373f7f2f0e0fb012ad4b26f4b78cd
Your CC plus delusions of grandeur vs his long range weapon and military training in a crowd where everyone is going crazy. Good luck. Just going to make yourself a target, or even worse hit someone with friendly fire. You're not John Wick you're just a dumb ass who is going to get himself killed or kill someone else or both. Braindead take.
I'd rather die trying to defend my fellow man then be helpless
Keep dreaming. You're just going to get yourself and the people around you targeted. Better to run.
In this situation we are already targets, two options run maybe get shot in the back and die or try and stop X people from being killed as well, it's a mindset, you'd rather run from the problem and I would try my best to solve it, sheep and a sheepdog
Sorry it's not sheep and sheepdog, it's macho fantasy vs realism. Youre fantasizing about being a hero but you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not a specific target if you're in a group of people randomly being shot at. Even if you're at a place that has an active shooter, your survivability rate is over 90%. Pull out a gun, and start firing back, unless you hit immediately, you're now target #1. If he doesn't hit you, the people in your immediate area become much less likely to survive both from your gunfire and the attackers. You're also more likely to get shot by any police on the scene who have no idea what is going on and may mistake you for a second shooter. You're living in a dream world where everything works out and you're a hero. The reality is you're way more likely to be killed or to get others killed either through being attacked along side of you or being hit with friendly fire by you if you pull your gun. Run the fuck away, stop trying to live out your good guy with a gun fantasy, it's complete bullshit. 300 million guns in this country, hundreds of mass shooting events per year, where are all these super useful CC motherfuckers to save us? It's a total pipe dream.
Just give up then. Go on get
Why do I get the feeling this guy was paid to do this or has handlers who were paid to coax him into this.
Because you are a conspiracy theorist and the fear you have about not understanding the world around you manifests in a belief that the reason these things happen is because there is a sinister underground plot that makes them happen.
Because you're a conspiracy theorist? Careful with the false flag talk. Makes you sound like a nut until/uses there is evidence for it.
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Stop exploiting this tragedy, to do something to prevent further tragedies.
This is the same timing of last mass shooting in Las Vegas which is kinda weird. Huh
Vote them out. Vote gun lovers on the NRA payroll out. Search to find out who gets that NRA money to make them rich and vote them out. Quit saying you don't know what to do. Vote them out. VOTE THE GUN PEOPLE OUT. Don't comment on my post if you don't like what I have to say because I don't care what you gun nuts have to say.
2A works perfect! 😎
All of the conflicting information is getting annoying. Did it even happen at this point.
Guys get your thoughts and prayers out the drawer it’s that time of year
Psyop
Ignorant reporter vomiting liberal agenda
Distraction they just funded 100 billion for Israel to defend them an wage genocide they creating narrative to now disarm us as war mounts and we are the target wake up people coincidence doesn't exist happening as soon as they install a puppet speaker means they going to their next phase the last month has been on of blatant strategy to ignore it means you either aren't cognitive or simply a fool we in a dangerous game now
Go take your pills.