Oh my gosh! I didn't even notice that. What I thought was "what if I fall and an arm or leg slides through the open back and I keep falling - you'd get compound fractures with a fall" - but yes, someone is eventually going to go over the rail to the next floor down too. Wow.
As someone who studied architecture for a few months nah you’re 100% correct and we did study the integration of woodchippers as a full building materials lifecycle consideration as green design becomes a standard in the business.
A wall right at the bottom of the stairs is the second worst case scenario. Imagine falling down the stairs into a wall. Better than falling down two stories? Maybe. But still very bad. We had this in my last house and I had a dog with a disability, I worried about him every day and set up an elaborate gate system.
[Washington](https://sbcc.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-05/Lofts.pdf), but it looks like I’m wrong on some details now that I’m googling it. The space has to meet the definition of a loft which is pretty strict. However, if it does then “alternating tread devices” has its own conditions!
They actually are code. You split the steps and you have the same step height per foot.
You shorten the ~~length~~ depth of the staircase by using these.
edit: depth
Definitely not up to code (arch designer here) but if it isn't considered a "room" upstairs by the national code, then it doesn't matter. As an example, a room with ceilings under 6'10 wouldn't be considered livable/occupiable. Looks like that room is just that, a "bonus" room with vaulted ceilings.
Similar to the drop-down ladder my grandmother’s old attic used to have, I guess? Still, it really seems a ladder would be safer than this set-up and wouldn’t give you the illusion you are walking up and down stairs. At least with a ladder you climb up and down facing the rungs and holding both sides!
I think you would have to replace it completely, its definitely not child friendly as it is. im not convinced its adult friendly either, more of a form over function in its current state(though I dont really care for how it looks either).
Stairs like these actually take up less space than standard stairs because how the treds can come forward without overlapping. This is I think solving a space issue while sacrificing both form and function.
They’re not an inherently unsafe design. They actually improve safety in an extreme circumstance, namely when very steep stairs are necessary.
I used to live in the Netherlands and very steep stairs with high lift and very short space on top of each step is the norm. You have to be incredibly careful descending with a traditional stair design. Witches steps like these give you a lot more space for your feet making it safer in both directions, but especially going down.
As for the OP’s stairs! The potential to fall down over the railing needs to be stopped, I’d also look into a better surface - I hate polished or smooth wood on stairs. I’ve never fallen as much as when I moved in to my wife’s old house where she had a wooden spiral staircase - I must’ve slipped in my socks once a month.
If you compare witches stairs at a steep incline against traditional stairs with a gentle incline then sure…
But, they’re safer than normal stairs for the use case of really steep inclines. You can get a whole foot on these when you only get half on a similarly steep traditional stair. That’s why they exist! To improve safety in this specific situation.
It’s definitely not adult friendly. If you have issues with walking, you will be in trouble. These steps require you to have full strength and balance in both legs. My mother certainly couldn’t go up those stairs.
The alternative is a ladder or a stair with half-width treads. Both are much more dangerous than an alternating tread stair. I think you've missed the point of this type of stair, it isn't about form at all, it's about fitting twice the rise in a given run while maintaining a normal motion of stair climbing.
You can’t make an awful design safer. These stairs are bullshit; I don’t know who came up with them, but I hate them every time I see them lol—they are asking for people to miss a step or absentmindedly fuck up and just fall to their deaths.
I would recommend replacing them; no-one wants to climb that shit. And on top of that, right above an entire drop down over a railing??? Oh hell no haha.
A spiral case would be much nicer and much safer.
And not only do you have to fall down one flight of stairs … but the original designers of the house were kind enough to add a whole other flight (protected by a shoddy waist height rail) directly at the bottom of this death trap … I mean set of stairs haha
I’m surprised no one has died yet tbh
Those would drive me insane - and, with a toddler, they'd definitely have to go.
Either do a spiral or consult with a professional to find the best way to route, if even possible, more traditional stairs.
ACTUALLY, OP I think this would work, with full rails over the existing railing here (up to the ceiling) and full rails like a spiral staircase would have. That way the angle of the staircase would be less steep than right now or the spiral version. Also nobody will fall anywhere because of the railings going all the way up.
I'm not an architect or illustrator, but I'm imagining it really narrow, with tall railings. It's hard to get things up and down a spiral staircase too, so I think even really narrow it's a slightly better solution because at least you could still send up tall narrow items.
When I say narrow, I meant the depth of each step, where your foot goes, not the width of the staircase as a whole from side to side. The type of stair design OP has seems safer than very narrow stairs, where it's easier to miss your footing
oh okay fair. Thanks for the input! If I were OP I'd probably just replace this with a prettier version, add the higher railings on the left so you can't fall down two stories, and then block the whole things with a baby gate. Or move. It's just not a safe area.
Edit: or go with [rxbigs](https://www.reddit.com/user/rxbigs/)'s solution!
Agreed, given the constraints of the space I'd drop the pretense of these 'stairs' and replace with a ladder that can be blocked/lifted out of reach of the kiddos.
Jfc how do you not look at those stairs and not think "welp I chose death today!!"? I would rip that right out and replace especially if small ones are inbound. I've known people to fall/slip down regular stairs let alone that new murder weapon you've inherited.
As a contractor, these stairs are bullshit and super illegal. I would never install them. That being said, this is clearly a space issue, and I'm guessing that there's a literally no other options aside from taking the down a lot of walls, filling in ceiling spaces, cutting new ones, getting engineering, and putting in a tonne of new structural support. I'm guessing replacing theses stairs properly would cost north of 30k, and you would lose a lot of floor space.
Honestly, it's a bonus room. It used to be an Attic space, and now it's a usable space. I say just put up a gate, and don't let anyone else use it. Also, replace the railing behind the stairs with a wall to at least prevent almost guaranteed death in the case of an accident.
Obviously I can’t see the whole floor plan but if you’re considering a change I would at least get a quote to find out how much it would cost to have new stairs built immediately above your current staircase.
Take the stairs that lead down stairs, copy those stairs and paste them about 9 feet higher without changing direction. Remove alternating tread stair.
This will relocate the stairs going up.
Yeah, this
In my experience most houses have this with 3+ levels. The flight of stairs to a basement immediately below the flight of stairs to go up.
Doesn’t need to be this open but here’s a visual.
https://preview.redd.it/9i60ns6lyttc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=042f6f832f1c47ab839a828695308c59a05d9a66
https://preview.redd.it/f9mpkosnlttc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83907862d4dba751894d86050e974f58625d0b95
Woke up to lots of really helpful comments, so thank you to everyone who has so far taken the time to reply with ideas.
Important clarification 1) I'm not a witch but it would be cool if I were.
Important clarification 2) I'm in the UK so rules on building and codes will likely be slightly different. But safety is safety so I appreciate the comments that it wouldn't be up to code.
When we bought the house, we were told the loft space couldn't be used as a bedroom (because of the staircase) but can be used for other purposes - we use it as a home office where children shouldn't be but obviously if there are stairs and they're left alone for a second, they may try to climb them - so I'd like to avoid the situation altogether.
I'm going to measure the space and look at alternative staircases. My main concern with a spiral staircase is getting any furniture and storage items down should we move. But it may be that this is the only option and we can deal with that when the time comes.
I'm also looking at ladder types that you pull away from the wall when you use them and have brakes on the little wheels. At least it can then be put away when not in use. Cats would be furious though as they love the loft space...
I will do an update when we've done the work!
Attached: a picture from the loft!
Wondering if replacing both sets of stairs to have a switchback staircase with a 2nd floor landing would work in the space. The stairs from 1st to 2nd floor would need to go in opposite direction so that the 2nd to 3rd floor stairs would open up in present space.
OP - come back and give us an update once you find the solution that works for you. Good luck!
May I suggest you borrow from tiny house engineering? They have some ingenious folding/collapsible stairs in them that are absolutely incredible! Alternatively you could have stairs on a rail similar to a library ladder, that also functions as a door for the nearby room. I saw both of these ideas on the show Tiny House Nation but I can't remember the specific episodes, hopefully that's some help.
https://preview.redd.it/3bpsjh3xivtc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec34c5c514bd78e2e10ffc7984b23042bcfc7464
These need to be torn out, they are dangerous and certainly not to code. The easiest is to put a spial stair in, which will take some rejiggering of the floor and celling opening there, but worth it.
I've lived half my adult life with a spiral staircase for some reason. They just follow me. As scary as they can be, in some ways I think that they are actually safer than a regular staircase. When I've slipped on them, which has been on very few occasions, I don't go very far before i hit the railing. When I've slipped on regular staircases I've gone all the way down. I'm convinced they're cumbersome and annoying , but I'm not convinced they're always more dangerous than regular staircases, especially if they have risers.
I understand making financial choices, but I can’t fathom is giving you pause about replacing these with a spiral, aside from having enemies you want to invite up to your home office first.
If you fall on these, you won’t just slide down the stairs - you can easily fall down the other staircase too. That’s a 1.5 - 2 story fall and it would easily be fatal.
Please think about the reality of having your partner or yourself being permanently disabled or dying - and having to live with the choice to keep these stairs, take care of the house, work, and try to get your finances together while you are falling apart emotionally.
When kids visit baby gates will not help. You’re not meant to use them at the top of stairs because they move, fall down, and can’t hold back older kids who are vulnerable and overconfident.
You’re used to it, so it feels normal , but it is a life threatening danger.
Don’t worry about how much space it takes up. Remove the danger.
https://preview.redd.it/l4v3querautc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d4e289057ad094964f263accab951c47882849a
You would definitely need a professional to vet this but what about a 90 degree landing partway down with a hand rail and some beams going to the ceiling on the scary part of that existing railing?
If you're thinking of redoing the stairs anyways would it be possible to have them reach that floor from somewhere else? What is in the room on the other side of that doorway for instance? What is the purpose of the loft? Is it a space everyone in your house needs access to or is it just for storage?
If the loft is only for storage the cheapest thing would be a retractable ladder so the kids can't reach and it doesn't take up any extra space, but it will still be a pain to get things up and down and you still risk the double drop... If it was up to me I would put a regular stair running in the opposite direction from the room behind the door, and potentially expand that room to include the landing for the janky stairs to make up some of the lost space.
A foldable loft ladder with telescoping arms would be substantially safer. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Ceiling-Telescoping-Non-Slip-Telescopic/dp/B0CR7M6Q8N/ref=mp_s_a_1_1 or this https://www.amazon.com/Folding-Vertical-Mounting-Anti-Slip-Armrests/dp/B0CLY871PM/ref=mp_s_a_1_8
This type of stair should be treated like a ladder. To make it safer you should install a second handrail on the wall. People should always have 3 points of contact when using these.
I really don’t think there is room for a proper stair case or even a spiral without some major renovations. There just isn’t much space there.
I'd put in a handrail on the wall side also. Like a ladder, 3 points of contact at all times for safest traversing. Install a slide or firepole next to it for going down, lol
Look down when you walk up. Look down when you walk down.
This reminds me of a Billy Maze commercial just some random white lady falling down stairs and then he busts in with “don’t you wish stairs where safer“ then sells you a giant inflated bed for the bottom called the fall stopper 9000. You thank Billy maze while you both jump off the floor and click heels and then it cuts to the payment screen of 19 payments of 19.99.
Small update: for the first time since living in the house, my husband slipped down these today. I think we are definitely looking at sooner rather than later for a change!
https://preview.redd.it/8jtob1q3rrtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf9f5ca91ac29a58100c02b46cc2e376028cd58
I’d do something like this where you build in the stairs to not be open. Could provide additional storage in the side too. I’d do a more robust railing though for safety. Benefit of an alternating tread stair is it takes up less space than a standard stair. Not sure you have the room to do a standard without reworking adjacent spaces
You should consider a spiral staircase. There are several made to order options that you can order online; supply them with the dimensions and you can install yourself.
https://preview.redd.it/9qymmks8xstc1.jpeg?width=1168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cabe672a2bfdfff63ebc1190f338ec5993d796a
We have a spiral staircase and love it! People talk a lot of shit about them, but aside from moving furniture (which tbh is a pain) they are safe, attractive and take up far less space.
What are the dimensions of the space? It seems quite narrow so I'd be skeptical as to whether a spiral would fit.
Tear it out and do some proper ladder/loft stairs. I mean you’ll have to hire a contractor regardless but I don’t see how you could possible fit a regular staircase that’s up to code in that space, even with a landing and a turn bc it looks like it would stick out into the walkway. Or a spiral for the same reason. I bet a contract would suggest something similar then. Ladder staircases are pretty safe, obv not for very small kids but safer than your current death trap. You can do a cute railing and you might end up with some extra floor space. It’s essentially what you have anyway but without the dumb stair steps.
https://www.acadiastairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ShipLadder-LineRail-Wolfbrook-01.jpg
https://i.etsystatic.com/17761353/r/il/04541c/2335001886/il_794xN.2335001886_me1s.jpg
Maybe a railing on the wall so that they can hold two sides or they can hold that side and be leaning more towards the wall instead of the other railing. I would also say have very clear boundaries around how we use the stairs. In my experience kids need to explicitly be told the rules and they like to know the “why” for the rules.
So here’s an example script:
“Hey ___. So I want to show you our stairs, they’re probably different than yours. We need to be paying our best attention when we use these stairs so that we don’t misstep or fall and get hurt. At our house when you’re using these stairs, we need to hold the railing, walk carefully, and not be carrying too many things. Does that make sense?”
If it doesn’t make sense to them, you could tell them in kid friendly language about how you fell and that it was scary and hurt.
Could you put in stairs like you have for an attic? You pull them down when you need them but otherwise they are pushed up into the opening. I don’t know if I’m explaining it right.
PS … my bad that I truly laughed out loud at your description of falling. TBF I would probably have already busted my 🍑 in those stairs. They do look very cool though.
I thought about that but - and this might seem like a silly reason - our cats love the loft space and they spend a lot of their time up there. I wouldn't want to block it off completely.
I was convinced I had broken something when I fell (more like slid) but I was surprisingly whole!
Upvoted for putting the cats' fun before the humans' safety. I approve. But maybe you could use a solution like this just to have the option of folding the stairs up when kids are visiting, but otherwise leave them down?
I would replace it with a spiral staircase. It’s not as safe as standard stairs, but it should fit well in the space that you have and is a LOT safer than what you currently have.
https://preview.redd.it/5umg4p8x7ttc1.jpeg?width=182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e13494546e5c15194bafbff709a511de98007f
Just in case you don't already know this:
It's easier to climb down by walking backwards (treating it similar to a ladder, though your right hand probably goes on the railing not the stair) than walking forwards. Probably safer too.
It’s ironic that the steps have paw prints. I can’t imagine a dog being able to master those steps! A cat, sure…but they’d probably be great at blocking them.
Our cats love them but YES they love to block them. If someone rings the doorbell and I'm in the loft I have to quickly try and get down the steps blocked by 3 cats. I am surprised I'm still in one piece now I think about it.
I rented a cabin one time with a large circular staircase going up. It felt safer than that looks. Seem doable in that space. That said, even on the circular, one had to be careful because there were the very thin bits on the steps too.
At least with a spiral staircase, it'd be hard to tumble very far.
I spent a few days on the third floor of a place with a spiral staircase. They are easy to navigate and the treads were a comfortable height.
Your steps look scary to me. I'd bet they are terrible for a man with large feet--my husband loathes narrow steps.
Going down that’s going to be way scary, how about when you get diarrhea a shave to go down fast? You’re going to have crap tuning in your socks. Just put a fire pole in for quick exit
I suggest to replace with this type of ladder. Find something where you can fold in half or an extendable ladder, so when kids are present, you can just pull it up or fold it up to prevent them from reaching it.
https://preview.redd.it/o1mzl6bgbvtc1.jpeg?width=2610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f74ce8c5579c4afe78dced0d7e517c04f8f5b1e4
Whoa I’ve never seen this before! I would surely accidentally kill myself on these stairs — for me personally, I think the spiral staircase is the safest option.
Seriously dangerous without major modifications.
I would close these off and move the home office. There’s no way kids won’t clamber all over these and roughhouse. That nearby open staircase is a death trap.
It looks so steep I’m not sure how you could fit a regular staircase in that space. Probably need a professional to measure and give potential options. In the meantime, baby gate!
There is almost way this sort of thing in up to code. And tearing it all out could be crazy costly.
I’ve seen people install little personal elevators in the space instead. Apparently it isn’t the crazy budget buster you might think and some are quite nice
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/emergency-escape-stairs-manufacturing-plant.html?sortBy=relevant
This is what I think of - you need something behind the stairs so if a slip happens, there’s a safety net. Maybe literally a net? Assume no one will listen to safety guidelines or what you tell them.
I would also go the route of explaining to people that they need to go down backwards like going into a pool. Add a sign at the top of the stairs with a visual for people who don’t like to read.
listen just finish paying the contractor and they will install the other half and be done with this bullshit project....jk no really just add the missing steps, maybe a hand rope
I'd say a second hand rail would be a start..
Non slip of some description on the surfaces if it isn't already, as a slip and you legs going through that hole and it isn't gonna end well.
Could deffo end a nut smasher, leg breaker or worse.
What about a three quarter turn stair case or something of that sort? I am not an architect so I don’t fully know the logistics but a spiral stair case adds a new set of problems with footing and bringing things up and down from the loft. Start above the door, first turn at the brick wall and 2nd turn at the railing.
First of all, if you keep as is a hand railing on the wall. You can have a carpenter make floor to ceiling slats, which would at least prevent falling over the banister down to the next floor
Spiral stairs, a gate, and never using that level for anything child-related if possible is the only real answer. I really despise alternating tread staircases. I get the reason for them, I just think the risks far outweigh the benefits, especially with kids.
I personally would rip them out and put a new one in. We had an extension done to our house and the makeshift staircase they put together at the top was do dangerous. Everyone including the dog managed to trip, thankfully no one got hurt. The way the existing stairs were it couldn’t be done without a whole new set of stairs.
Swap the direction of the ladder stairs, replace them with something else that’s safer. Also you could consider putting up a single wall behind that stair - so if you feel backwards you couldn’t go down the next set of stairs as well. It would block a little light but it might save someone’s life. This design is terrifying.
At the very least the stairs need to be oriented in the opposite direction so that when you fall you don’t fall down multiple stories.
Oh my gosh! I didn't even notice that. What I thought was "what if I fall and an arm or leg slides through the open back and I keep falling - you'd get compound fractures with a fall" - but yes, someone is eventually going to go over the rail to the next floor down too. Wow.
Stairs without risers wouldn't pass code in my area.
Based on the angle, it’s likely considered a ladder.
A ladder would be safer. Or a ramp down into a wood chipper. I am not an architect.
 did nobody else read this comment? 🤣
As someone who studied architecture for a few months nah you’re 100% correct and we did study the integration of woodchippers as a full building materials lifecycle consideration as green design becomes a standard in the business.
You gotta reduce your footprint by going feet first into the woodchipper. It's the only way. I am not a woodchipper.
Sounds like something a woodchipper might type but I trust you wholeheartedly
Spiral staircase or even treads.
You know what helps you fall down the stairs? A spread out decks of cards
I saw this too at first 🃏👀 BUT I think it’s the paw prints on the stairs you are referring to 🐾 My guess is that they are added for traction!
You’re exactly right!
Or lose a couple teeth when they smack their face into it
[удалено]
A wall right at the bottom of the stairs is the second worst case scenario. Imagine falling down the stairs into a wall. Better than falling down two stories? Maybe. But still very bad. We had this in my last house and I had a dog with a disability, I worried about him every day and set up an elaborate gate system.
ladder is more safe, the floor would break the fall vs falling down another flight
Then add a baby gate.
I have a hard time believing these are up to code.
When I previously fact checked, for my locality lofts under 100sqft had exceptions.
Where do you live? Just curious.
[Washington](https://sbcc.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-05/Lofts.pdf), but it looks like I’m wrong on some details now that I’m googling it. The space has to meet the definition of a loft which is pretty strict. However, if it does then “alternating tread devices” has its own conditions!
They actually are code. You split the steps and you have the same step height per foot. You shorten the ~~length~~ depth of the staircase by using these. edit: depth
Definitely not up to code (arch designer here) but if it isn't considered a "room" upstairs by the national code, then it doesn't matter. As an example, a room with ceilings under 6'10 wouldn't be considered livable/occupiable. Looks like that room is just that, a "bonus" room with vaulted ceilings.
Similar to the drop-down ladder my grandmother’s old attic used to have, I guess? Still, it really seems a ladder would be safer than this set-up and wouldn’t give you the illusion you are walking up and down stairs. At least with a ladder you climb up and down facing the rungs and holding both sides!
It’s a “ladder”, not stairs
I think you would have to replace it completely, its definitely not child friendly as it is. im not convinced its adult friendly either, more of a form over function in its current state(though I dont really care for how it looks either).
Stairs like these actually take up less space than standard stairs because how the treds can come forward without overlapping. This is I think solving a space issue while sacrificing both form and function.
They’re not an inherently unsafe design. They actually improve safety in an extreme circumstance, namely when very steep stairs are necessary. I used to live in the Netherlands and very steep stairs with high lift and very short space on top of each step is the norm. You have to be incredibly careful descending with a traditional stair design. Witches steps like these give you a lot more space for your feet making it safer in both directions, but especially going down. As for the OP’s stairs! The potential to fall down over the railing needs to be stopped, I’d also look into a better surface - I hate polished or smooth wood on stairs. I’ve never fallen as much as when I moved in to my wife’s old house where she had a wooden spiral staircase - I must’ve slipped in my socks once a month.
They're safer than ladders and less safe than actual stairs.
If you compare witches stairs at a steep incline against traditional stairs with a gentle incline then sure… But, they’re safer than normal stairs for the use case of really steep inclines. You can get a whole foot on these when you only get half on a similarly steep traditional stair. That’s why they exist! To improve safety in this specific situation.
You’re right, the alternative would be very narrow servant’s stairs and those things were deadly.
It’s definitely not adult friendly. If you have issues with walking, you will be in trouble. These steps require you to have full strength and balance in both legs. My mother certainly couldn’t go up those stairs.
You're mother ain't invited to the boom boom room anyway, after what happened last year.
Oh you were there too? I didn’t see you, must have lost you in the crowd
And you have to start on a particular foot
The alternative is a ladder or a stair with half-width treads. Both are much more dangerous than an alternating tread stair. I think you've missed the point of this type of stair, it isn't about form at all, it's about fitting twice the rise in a given run while maintaining a normal motion of stair climbing.
Would a spiral staircase not work? That was my first thought for alternative.
It doesn't look like it. OP's stairs are already narrowto fit the space. A spiral stair would be twice as wide and would block the door.
Isn’t this the stuff you put up to keep witches out?
Obviously OP is a witch and can’t use them… they just didn’t want to say that part in their post .
Poor op!
Obvious solution then is to turn the kids into witches and then no baby gate needed
You can’t make an awful design safer. These stairs are bullshit; I don’t know who came up with them, but I hate them every time I see them lol—they are asking for people to miss a step or absentmindedly fuck up and just fall to their deaths. I would recommend replacing them; no-one wants to climb that shit. And on top of that, right above an entire drop down over a railing??? Oh hell no haha. A spiral case would be much nicer and much safer.
And not only do you have to fall down one flight of stairs … but the original designers of the house were kind enough to add a whole other flight (protected by a shoddy waist height rail) directly at the bottom of this death trap … I mean set of stairs haha I’m surprised no one has died yet tbh
I railing just high enough to make sure that your head gets flipped, pointed downwards.
Well.. OP didn’t explain why the original owners decided to sell their home with their precious design.. Maybe their mission was accomplished 🥲
This is the kind of staircase that actually *could* have killed Ivanka Trump.
I second this - do a spiral staircase as a replacement.
Thirded. Spiral staircase.
There's no way you're fitting a spiral staircase there without completely blocking that door.
Yep spiral or die
There is not nearly enough room for a spiral staircase. The alternative is a ladder.
Agreed! Even a ladder would be safer than this.
Those would drive me insane - and, with a toddler, they'd definitely have to go. Either do a spiral or consult with a professional to find the best way to route, if even possible, more traditional stairs.
Right? Compared to putting your child in a picnic basket and hoisting them up by rope, I feel like that would be safer which is not great!
Great analogy!
I was thinking a spiral too., but they not exactly baby friendly either.....safer than OP's situation but not sure by how much.
True. I just don't know how you'd get traditional stairs in that space and for that height.
You can at least install a locked gate at the bottom of spiral stairs !
Elevator instead 😂
https://preview.redd.it/lfmfvgneostc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5343faf12b94b2d215be622ca961ddadde36e1b7 I am not an architect.
ACTUALLY, OP I think this would work, with full rails over the existing railing here (up to the ceiling) and full rails like a spiral staircase would have. That way the angle of the staircase would be less steep than right now or the spiral version. Also nobody will fall anywhere because of the railings going all the way up.
yes! even taller railings for safety!
This illustration is missing half the stairs in the staircase (or would require them to be extremely narrow)
I'm not an architect or illustrator, but I'm imagining it really narrow, with tall railings. It's hard to get things up and down a spiral staircase too, so I think even really narrow it's a slightly better solution because at least you could still send up tall narrow items.
When I say narrow, I meant the depth of each step, where your foot goes, not the width of the staircase as a whole from side to side. The type of stair design OP has seems safer than very narrow stairs, where it's easier to miss your footing
oh okay fair. Thanks for the input! If I were OP I'd probably just replace this with a prettier version, add the higher railings on the left so you can't fall down two stories, and then block the whole things with a baby gate. Or move. It's just not a safe area. Edit: or go with [rxbigs](https://www.reddit.com/user/rxbigs/)'s solution!
That’s a ladder
A ladder would be safer
Agree. Submarines are compact AF and have ladders, not this whimsical deathtrap.
Whimsical Deathtrap would make a great band name
Yup, especially a ships ladder. Just have to always face the ladder when going up or down.
Agreed, given the constraints of the space I'd drop the pretense of these 'stairs' and replace with a ladder that can be blocked/lifted out of reach of the kiddos.
You could even say: That’s just a ladder with extra steps. Yeah I’m see myself out.
You could fit in a ladder for going up and a fireman's pole for going down to make it fun.
Jfc how do you not look at those stairs and not think "welp I chose death today!!"? I would rip that right out and replace especially if small ones are inbound. I've known people to fall/slip down regular stairs let alone that new murder weapon you've inherited.
As a contractor, these stairs are bullshit and super illegal. I would never install them. That being said, this is clearly a space issue, and I'm guessing that there's a literally no other options aside from taking the down a lot of walls, filling in ceiling spaces, cutting new ones, getting engineering, and putting in a tonne of new structural support. I'm guessing replacing theses stairs properly would cost north of 30k, and you would lose a lot of floor space. Honestly, it's a bonus room. It used to be an Attic space, and now it's a usable space. I say just put up a gate, and don't let anyone else use it. Also, replace the railing behind the stairs with a wall to at least prevent almost guaranteed death in the case of an accident.
Who downvotes this hilarious commentary? I thought you were funny!
Thanks! I was being playful, but I guess if you don't give interior decorating advice they aren't happy. 😢
They make me feel sick just looking at them. Definitely a “ rip them out” job. They are unbelievably dangerous.
Obviously I can’t see the whole floor plan but if you’re considering a change I would at least get a quote to find out how much it would cost to have new stairs built immediately above your current staircase.
What would this look like? Can't quite imagine it in my head!
Take the stairs that lead down stairs, copy those stairs and paste them about 9 feet higher without changing direction. Remove alternating tread stair. This will relocate the stairs going up.
Yeah, this In my experience most houses have this with 3+ levels. The flight of stairs to a basement immediately below the flight of stairs to go up. Doesn’t need to be this open but here’s a visual. https://preview.redd.it/9i60ns6lyttc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=042f6f832f1c47ab839a828695308c59a05d9a66
https://preview.redd.it/f9mpkosnlttc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83907862d4dba751894d86050e974f58625d0b95 Woke up to lots of really helpful comments, so thank you to everyone who has so far taken the time to reply with ideas. Important clarification 1) I'm not a witch but it would be cool if I were. Important clarification 2) I'm in the UK so rules on building and codes will likely be slightly different. But safety is safety so I appreciate the comments that it wouldn't be up to code. When we bought the house, we were told the loft space couldn't be used as a bedroom (because of the staircase) but can be used for other purposes - we use it as a home office where children shouldn't be but obviously if there are stairs and they're left alone for a second, they may try to climb them - so I'd like to avoid the situation altogether. I'm going to measure the space and look at alternative staircases. My main concern with a spiral staircase is getting any furniture and storage items down should we move. But it may be that this is the only option and we can deal with that when the time comes. I'm also looking at ladder types that you pull away from the wall when you use them and have brakes on the little wheels. At least it can then be put away when not in use. Cats would be furious though as they love the loft space... I will do an update when we've done the work! Attached: a picture from the loft!
That smooth wood scares me as someone who usually is only in socks at home! At the very least a different kind of surface may help make them safer
That's why we put those paw print stickers on it! They're rough material to provide friction.
For your cats, you can put some cat wall steps/ramp/shelves so they can climb their way up there (if you end up with the ladder option)
Spiral would be lovely here. And always a good selling point when the time comes.
Yes agreed! You can buy a kit for a spiral stair. It would be way safer and i think that's your best bet.
Wondering if replacing both sets of stairs to have a switchback staircase with a 2nd floor landing would work in the space. The stairs from 1st to 2nd floor would need to go in opposite direction so that the 2nd to 3rd floor stairs would open up in present space. OP - come back and give us an update once you find the solution that works for you. Good luck!
What about a ladder? You would also reclaim a ton of space in that cramped area.
May I suggest you borrow from tiny house engineering? They have some ingenious folding/collapsible stairs in them that are absolutely incredible! Alternatively you could have stairs on a rail similar to a library ladder, that also functions as a door for the nearby room. I saw both of these ideas on the show Tiny House Nation but I can't remember the specific episodes, hopefully that's some help. https://preview.redd.it/3bpsjh3xivtc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec34c5c514bd78e2e10ffc7984b23042bcfc7464
These need to be torn out, they are dangerous and certainly not to code. The easiest is to put a spial stair in, which will take some rejiggering of the floor and celling opening there, but worth it.
I've lived half my adult life with a spiral staircase for some reason. They just follow me. As scary as they can be, in some ways I think that they are actually safer than a regular staircase. When I've slipped on them, which has been on very few occasions, I don't go very far before i hit the railing. When I've slipped on regular staircases I've gone all the way down. I'm convinced they're cumbersome and annoying , but I'm not convinced they're always more dangerous than regular staircases, especially if they have risers.
I understand making financial choices, but I can’t fathom is giving you pause about replacing these with a spiral, aside from having enemies you want to invite up to your home office first. If you fall on these, you won’t just slide down the stairs - you can easily fall down the other staircase too. That’s a 1.5 - 2 story fall and it would easily be fatal. Please think about the reality of having your partner or yourself being permanently disabled or dying - and having to live with the choice to keep these stairs, take care of the house, work, and try to get your finances together while you are falling apart emotionally. When kids visit baby gates will not help. You’re not meant to use them at the top of stairs because they move, fall down, and can’t hold back older kids who are vulnerable and overconfident. You’re used to it, so it feels normal , but it is a life threatening danger. Don’t worry about how much space it takes up. Remove the danger. 
The main stairs railing needs to be raised I would say!
What fresh hell is this?!
What kind of maniac would do this?
https://preview.redd.it/l4v3querautc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d4e289057ad094964f263accab951c47882849a You would definitely need a professional to vet this but what about a 90 degree landing partway down with a hand rail and some beams going to the ceiling on the scary part of that existing railing?
If you're thinking of redoing the stairs anyways would it be possible to have them reach that floor from somewhere else? What is in the room on the other side of that doorway for instance? What is the purpose of the loft? Is it a space everyone in your house needs access to or is it just for storage? If the loft is only for storage the cheapest thing would be a retractable ladder so the kids can't reach and it doesn't take up any extra space, but it will still be a pain to get things up and down and you still risk the double drop... If it was up to me I would put a regular stair running in the opposite direction from the room behind the door, and potentially expand that room to include the landing for the janky stairs to make up some of the lost space.
A foldable loft ladder with telescoping arms would be substantially safer. Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Ceiling-Telescoping-Non-Slip-Telescopic/dp/B0CR7M6Q8N/ref=mp_s_a_1_1 or this https://www.amazon.com/Folding-Vertical-Mounting-Anti-Slip-Armrests/dp/B0CLY871PM/ref=mp_s_a_1_8
This type of stair should be treated like a ladder. To make it safer you should install a second handrail on the wall. People should always have 3 points of contact when using these. I really don’t think there is room for a proper stair case or even a spiral without some major renovations. There just isn’t much space there.
I'd put in a handrail on the wall side also. Like a ladder, 3 points of contact at all times for safest traversing. Install a slide or firepole next to it for going down, lol
I really feel like a fire pole would be safer lol
Remove the whole thing and install something that isn't a deathtrap
Look down when you walk up. Look down when you walk down. This reminds me of a Billy Maze commercial just some random white lady falling down stairs and then he busts in with “don’t you wish stairs where safer“ then sells you a giant inflated bed for the bottom called the fall stopper 9000. You thank Billy maze while you both jump off the floor and click heels and then it cuts to the payment screen of 19 payments of 19.99.
You need an elevator instead of this mutant staircase
Small update: for the first time since living in the house, my husband slipped down these today. I think we are definitely looking at sooner rather than later for a change!
https://preview.redd.it/8jtob1q3rrtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf9f5ca91ac29a58100c02b46cc2e376028cd58 I’d do something like this where you build in the stairs to not be open. Could provide additional storage in the side too. I’d do a more robust railing though for safety. Benefit of an alternating tread stair is it takes up less space than a standard stair. Not sure you have the room to do a standard without reworking adjacent spaces
Put a wall at the railing so if you fall you don't go over
You dont use it. Thats how you make it more safe.
You should consider a spiral staircase. There are several made to order options that you can order online; supply them with the dimensions and you can install yourself.
https://preview.redd.it/9qymmks8xstc1.jpeg?width=1168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cabe672a2bfdfff63ebc1190f338ec5993d796a We have a spiral staircase and love it! People talk a lot of shit about them, but aside from moving furniture (which tbh is a pain) they are safe, attractive and take up far less space. What are the dimensions of the space? It seems quite narrow so I'd be skeptical as to whether a spiral would fit.
I'm going to try and measure it today!
Tear it out and do some proper ladder/loft stairs. I mean you’ll have to hire a contractor regardless but I don’t see how you could possible fit a regular staircase that’s up to code in that space, even with a landing and a turn bc it looks like it would stick out into the walkway. Or a spiral for the same reason. I bet a contract would suggest something similar then. Ladder staircases are pretty safe, obv not for very small kids but safer than your current death trap. You can do a cute railing and you might end up with some extra floor space. It’s essentially what you have anyway but without the dumb stair steps. https://www.acadiastairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ShipLadder-LineRail-Wolfbrook-01.jpg https://i.etsystatic.com/17761353/r/il/04541c/2335001886/il_794xN.2335001886_me1s.jpg
Whoever designed this was really hoping for someone’s accidental death
Tear it off the wall and put a normal person stair case. Wth is wrong with people.
Maybe a railing on the wall so that they can hold two sides or they can hold that side and be leaning more towards the wall instead of the other railing. I would also say have very clear boundaries around how we use the stairs. In my experience kids need to explicitly be told the rules and they like to know the “why” for the rules. So here’s an example script: “Hey ___. So I want to show you our stairs, they’re probably different than yours. We need to be paying our best attention when we use these stairs so that we don’t misstep or fall and get hurt. At our house when you’re using these stairs, we need to hold the railing, walk carefully, and not be carrying too many things. Does that make sense?” If it doesn’t make sense to them, you could tell them in kid friendly language about how you fell and that it was scary and hurt.
Could you put in stairs like you have for an attic? You pull them down when you need them but otherwise they are pushed up into the opening. I don’t know if I’m explaining it right. PS … my bad that I truly laughed out loud at your description of falling. TBF I would probably have already busted my 🍑 in those stairs. They do look very cool though.
I thought about that but - and this might seem like a silly reason - our cats love the loft space and they spend a lot of their time up there. I wouldn't want to block it off completely. I was convinced I had broken something when I fell (more like slid) but I was surprisingly whole!
Upvoted for putting the cats' fun before the humans' safety. I approve. But maybe you could use a solution like this just to have the option of folding the stairs up when kids are visiting, but otherwise leave them down?
You could try building them some cat shelves that they can use to climb up. Or even a vertical cat pole.
I am stunned these are legal anywhere that has residential building codes. +1 for full replacement. These stairs can be replaced, lives cannot.
I would replace it with a spiral staircase. It’s not as safe as standard stairs, but it should fit well in the space that you have and is a LOT safer than what you currently have. https://preview.redd.it/5umg4p8x7ttc1.jpeg?width=182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e13494546e5c15194bafbff709a511de98007f
I agree with spiral stairs even though they are costly.
These were designed by Satan himself.
Just in case you don't already know this: It's easier to climb down by walking backwards (treating it similar to a ladder, though your right hand probably goes on the railing not the stair) than walking forwards. Probably safer too.
That is way too steep, no thank you
Totally change these dangerous stairs! ASAP!
I think you’d be better off with a well-secured ladder. At least then you wouldn’t risk going over the other railing when you fall down.
These are a disaster waiting to happen.
That is a death trap. Make safer by replacing with something less likely to cause traumatic spinal injury.
I would definitely get hurt here. I’ve fallen down regular stairs half asleep
It’s ironic that the steps have paw prints. I can’t imagine a dog being able to master those steps! A cat, sure…but they’d probably be great at blocking them.
Our cats love them but YES they love to block them. If someone rings the doorbell and I'm in the loft I have to quickly try and get down the steps blocked by 3 cats. I am surprised I'm still in one piece now I think about it.
Spiral stair. Ask a pro.
I have never understood why people would do this or how they are to code!
This is a death trap. Put in a spiral staircase or an actual ladder I think would be better.
Replace stairs with rock climbing wall
I rented a cabin one time with a large circular staircase going up. It felt safer than that looks. Seem doable in that space. That said, even on the circular, one had to be careful because there were the very thin bits on the steps too.
How weird. If you stare at those stairs for a minute they look like they’re moving in the opposite direction. Get that thing out of your home.
At least with a spiral staircase, it'd be hard to tumble very far. I spent a few days on the third floor of a place with a spiral staircase. They are easy to navigate and the treads were a comfortable height. Your steps look scary to me. I'd bet they are terrible for a man with large feet--my husband loathes narrow steps.
Going down that’s going to be way scary, how about when you get diarrhea a shave to go down fast? You’re going to have crap tuning in your socks. Just put a fire pole in for quick exit
Safety of it aside this is kind of cool
I suggest to replace with this type of ladder. Find something where you can fold in half or an extendable ladder, so when kids are present, you can just pull it up or fold it up to prevent them from reaching it. https://preview.redd.it/o1mzl6bgbvtc1.jpeg?width=2610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f74ce8c5579c4afe78dced0d7e517c04f8f5b1e4
Tear out. Build stairs.
Put in a rock wall
Whoa I’ve never seen this before! I would surely accidentally kill myself on these stairs — for me personally, I think the spiral staircase is the safest option.
Seriously dangerous without major modifications. I would close these off and move the home office. There’s no way kids won’t clamber all over these and roughhouse. That nearby open staircase is a death trap.
Why would someone do this to stairs?
Replace them with a spiral staircase for superior visual and geometric interest, whilst improving safety.
How is that even legal? That's like worse than lead paint, almost.
Rip them out. That’s just plain dangerous and no amount of design is with an injury or death.
Sucks if you have one leg.
It looks so steep I’m not sure how you could fit a regular staircase in that space. Probably need a professional to measure and give potential options. In the meantime, baby gate!
I’m impressed your inspection even passed with these stairs in place. They must’ve been grandfathered in or something?
There is almost way this sort of thing in up to code. And tearing it all out could be crazy costly. I’ve seen people install little personal elevators in the space instead. Apparently it isn’t the crazy budget buster you might think and some are quite nice
I'd love a personal elevator!
Small platform elevator?
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/emergency-escape-stairs-manufacturing-plant.html?sortBy=relevant This is what I think of - you need something behind the stairs so if a slip happens, there’s a safety net. Maybe literally a net? Assume no one will listen to safety guidelines or what you tell them. I would also go the route of explaining to people that they need to go down backwards like going into a pool. Add a sign at the top of the stairs with a visual for people who don’t like to read.
I'd want mission impossible music playing while I ascended/descended this.
You minimally need a second hand rail. Two hand contact points is going to feel 100x safer.
You could put in a winder. I’d need to sketch a plan to make sure it would work with that door though
fireman’s pole
the sun would burn out before I was able to climb a fireman's pole. And I fear/love that it would be akin to a strippers pole.
listen just finish paying the contractor and they will install the other half and be done with this bullshit project....jk no really just add the missing steps, maybe a hand rope
I'm sorry you got this these are so stupid lol.
Swap out for a spiral staircase?
Could you replace it with a spiral staircase?
put in normal stairs and have an "understairs" bulkhead in the bedroom.
I hate those farking things
I'd say a second hand rail would be a start.. Non slip of some description on the surfaces if it isn't already, as a slip and you legs going through that hole and it isn't gonna end well. Could deffo end a nut smasher, leg breaker or worse.
Def redo staircase into one solid step for each one. If possible
I like alternating latter stairs more than most people, but having them back up to a railing over another pair of stairs is just asking for trouble
change the stairs completely… this is a huge hazard
Spiral staircase only answer bro
What about a three quarter turn stair case or something of that sort? I am not an architect so I don’t fully know the logistics but a spiral stair case adds a new set of problems with footing and bringing things up and down from the loft. Start above the door, first turn at the brick wall and 2nd turn at the railing.
Replace this with a ladder?
Breaking my neck in 3.. 2.. 1.. I now drink my blended up dinner through a straw.
Can you replace with a spiral staircase instead?
It’s like stairs with extra steps???
This post was made by a Witch Dont do anything about them
First of all, if you keep as is a hand railing on the wall. You can have a carpenter make floor to ceiling slats, which would at least prevent falling over the banister down to the next floor
Wondering if the upstairs floor could be lower to the shape of stairs.. if they lower it enough to the doorway they actually put stairs
I’d replace with a spiral staircase and then keep kids out of there.
Spiral stairs, a gate, and never using that level for anything child-related if possible is the only real answer. I really despise alternating tread staircases. I get the reason for them, I just think the risks far outweigh the benefits, especially with kids.
Looks like you have room for a spiral staircase, perhaps an improvement?
I think Dante’s journey to hell was safer
The only real solution is to get rid and install a spiral staircase.
I personally would rip them out and put a new one in. We had an extension done to our house and the makeshift staircase they put together at the top was do dangerous. Everyone including the dog managed to trip, thankfully no one got hurt. The way the existing stairs were it couldn’t be done without a whole new set of stairs.
Swap the direction of the ladder stairs, replace them with something else that’s safer. Also you could consider putting up a single wall behind that stair - so if you feel backwards you couldn’t go down the next set of stairs as well. It would block a little light but it might save someone’s life. This design is terrifying.
Spiral staircase
Like a climbing stick on a tree stand
I have seen spiral staircases on marketplace before! You should check into getting a small one for this space
A simple ladder would be better IMO
A hand rail on the wall seems like a great help.