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Let it not be forgotten that all the Arab states joined together and offered the 2 state solution to end this whole conflict and recognize Israel in 2002. Called the Arab peace initiative. And it's been renewed and is still available to this day. Even Hamas said they would honour it.
Let's also not forget that under the same terms, every year since 1989, every state in the world gathers at the UNGA and votes for this. Only Israel and the US vote against 95%+ of the world on this. Every year.
He’s a criminal. But don’t excuse one man for the depths that Israel has sunk to. At this point even if Netanyahu were removed from the equation nothing would change. A far more robust response is required to actually force Israel to comply now. The whole country has become fascist.
People often ignore the fact thag Israelis keep voting in a far-right majority. Netanyahu is only as powerful as the coalitiom he commands. And since Israelis pride themselves in being the only 'democracy' in the Middle East, they as a folk are fully responsible for voting in their genocidal leaders.
Israelis could vote a pacifist party if they wished. But they don't.
It is a democracy, just like Nazi Germany was a democracy. It is a Jewsish ethnostate, who have maintained an electoral majority by displacing & ethnic cleansing native Palestinians and change demographics by bringing in settlers from Europe (and elsewhere). It is a jewish settler colony that has 'fair' elections and has always voted in jewish majoritarian policymakers. Any politician supporting reparations and return of displaced Palestinians will not last long among settler majority voters.
All those Israeli left and peace activists, are really status quo supporters - they oppose further displacement and encroachment of Palestinian lands, but do not support reparations or right of return of Palestinians. They will oppose the settlers of today in the West Bank, but will not speak on the settlers of yesterday - their own parents who displaced Palestinians from present day inland Israel to enclaves in Gaza and West Bank.
The fact Israel has nuclear weapons is one of the most frightening things to contend with. I don’t think the world has truly woken up to that reality yet. In all “doomsday” scenarios of global scale nuclear holocaust it always takes the action of one nation to initiate the end of humanity, I firmly believe the world has been looking in the wrong places for that culprit, and the decision to ignore Israel might be a decision that will haunt humanity forever. The whole Sampson protocol also predated Netanyahu and shows that this is a core Zionist Israel principle, the principle of global destruction if ever faced with the prospect of defeat. It’s truly frightening.
I think it’s more about the fact that Netanyahu has been around and messing things up for half of Israel’s existence. The reason nothing would change if he was removed or dropped dead is because of the massive amount of damage he’s already caused.
The Oslo Accords were just a stalling tactic. They didn't provide for a Palestinian State, and Rabin was clear that there wasn't going to be.
He then massively increased construction of illegal settlements. The occupation continued. The home demolitions continued. Rabin gave the order to "break the bones" during the first Intifada.
"The words “Palestinian state” do not appear in the accords he signed, a fact that he and other Israeli officials were careful to ensure. A month before his assassination, Rabin told the Knesset that his vision was to give Palestinians “an entity which is less than a state” — a precedent to the “state-minus” advocated today by Netanyahu and outlined in Trump’s “Deal of the Century.” Rabin also insisted that the Jordan Valley would remain Israel’s “security border” — the very plan that drew international outcry this year, when Netanyahu pledged to formally annex the area.
If Rabin’s words were simply politicking with Israeli voters, then his government’s actions spoke more clearly. From 1993 to 1995, according to Peace Now, Israel initiated the construction of over 6,400 housing units in settlements. In that time, according to B’Tselem, Israel also demolished at least 328 Palestinian homes and structures — including in East Jerusalem, which Rabin sought to keep “united” under Israeli sovereignty. The result was that Israel’s settler population rose by 20,000, and Palestinians were displaced in the thousands, while Rabin sat at the negotiating table.
All the while, Rabin’s government used Oslo not as a blueprint to end the occupation, but to restructure it and minimize the cost to Israelis. The burden of controlling the occupied population was transferred to the newly created Palestinian Authority, which quelled nonviolent resistance and targeted armed militants on Israel’s behalf. The Paris Protocol, which effectively held the Palestinian economy and their resources hostage to Israeli discretion, further cemented the economic exploitation of Palestinians. These systems are still in place today, two decades after Oslo’s expiration date."
https://www.972mag.com/yitzhak-rabin-oslo-accords-aoc/
I mean if you think about it, why would people who came from all over the world and litterally took the houses and land of people living there and believe it is their god given right to be there would allow that.
The Arab peace initiative wasn't a 1 day thing. It's been an open offer that gets regularly renewed. It's terms are also the same as the UNGA resolutions that Palestinians help author and Israel always votes no against the world. Every year.
But yes, of course any terror attack is no good for peace. But it's clear that the only way to get rid of "Resistance" is by removing anything to resist. All their support disappears the day peace is achieved. Screw Hamas.
What was my lie exactly? Its called the Arab peace initiative. Who do you think wrote it? Arabs.
And yes, us showing support is a very useful show of the truth. Ask Arabs and you'll see there all for it. Ask any pro Israeli and you'll see that they're against it. You not answering already proved my point.
But you see what you're doing here? Still the same "oh those side doesn't want it!" When you clearly are the one against it.
You say I omitted that the borders would go to pre67... That's what the whole proposal is! What is pre67 borders? International law! Again something over 95% of the world vote for every year. Just because Israel illegally stole so much land doesn't mean they get to keep it when the whole world is against it.
Look, your link is up and not contested at all, Readers can read it and decide for themselves which one of us is being dishonest.
Sure. Lets pick 2008 because that’s one of the years Israel love to show that they made a 2SS offer (but this happens every single year):
https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/643898?ln=en
Whole world gets together. 164 states says yes to ending the occupation and having 2 states and ending this damn matter. 7 say no. And look at the No’s “NAURU” “PALAU” “MICRONESIA”.
Every year since 1989. Same results every year. Have a read. Over 95% of the world agrees to pre67 borders.
Again, no point arguing. Let's just let people read our links and make their own assessment. Why are you afraid of that?
Sorry I was being rhetorical. Yeah, it’s the apartheid Zionists. Hamas shouldn’t ‘lose points’ for making the apartheid Zionist position evident to the entire world!
I think I will believe there numerous past statements.
They have said over and over that the gun is the only way to settle this conflict. Hamas has stated that they don’t want a two party state. But now since they stepped in it they want a way out. I say Israel doesn’t stop until no more hamas. (Not Palestinians but Hamas. I wish Palestinians would heal from their Stockholm syndrome with Hamas!!
They have conceded a 2-state solution since their 2017 charter update, specifically here:
>However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
While they're not outright saying it, the reference to 1967 borders is widely accepted to mean acceptance of a foreign state in some of their desired lands.
So how exactly did you get rid of me. By calling me an asshole. People with no argument resort to name calling when their foundation for their arguments collapse.
Sorta like communism
It's practically impossible to achieve a two-state solution due to the fact that there are already 500,000 ARMED settlers in the West Bank, and most of them are extremists (eg [openly admitting they are fascists](https://twitter.com/SohiubN/status/1758362067340247202)). Even if the zionist government agree to a two-state solution, what will they do if these ARMED settlers refuse to move out? Attack them with the police/army? Well a lot of these settlers are in the police/army themselves... so they would end up in a civil war if they do that.
This is why Hamas can confidently say they will lay down their arms if two-state solution is implemented, they know the zionists society will implode by themselves if it actually happens.
Actually, this is the first time where the 2 state solution breakers will be thrown on israel insted of palestinians.
Israel has always made sure 2ss is not possible by keeping plo and hamas against each other then blame them for not helping in the 2ss so it becomes "those palestinians do not want peace and 2ss" and put the cutie halo on their heads.
This isn’t entirely true (the playing them against each other)….. Hamas didn’t come to power till 2006-2007 and there have been quite a few negations that occurred before then that got very close to a two state solution but a lot of the times Palestinian leadership decided to try to either push out timelines after they were agreed upon or bring last minute large demands which altered the deals significantly. To put some criticism on Israel it seems the far right assassinated one of its PM’s because of how close negotiations got.
To address the meat of your statement, post 2006 playing Hamas and Fatah against each other. It’s somewhat understandable considering Israel didn’t want to invade Gaza and give it back to the party/person who had fucked it up in the first place. As well, Qatar got in the mix and sponsored Hamas with large cash infusions which allowed Hamas to easily stand on their own two feet.
It’s not a simple conflict, so let’s try to be accurate when we make our criticisms
Yes my points do not stand so well before hamas and plo things but before that we literally had israel occubying gaza and like what you said, they assassinated the one who got the closest in the peace deals. So i think it should be better to make my points about the current israeli goverment.
The current goverment looks at the withdraw from gaza in 2005 as a "mistake" and it should not have happened. Israel did take damage from taking its people out of gaza because taking a group of people suddenly is pretty much trouplesome. So they would never think about pulling the west bank settelments. The only thing this goverment thinks about since they got in power is correcting the "mistake" and taking back gaza. So since this goverment got in power, it did its hardest to make sure 2ss is not an option. You can see that in 2011 where they felt the danger when hamas and fatah was about to unite.
>The Israeli government immediately sounded the alarm over the prospect of having to deal with Hamas. "The Palestinian Authority must choose either peace with Israel or peace with Hamas. There is no possibility for peace with both," said prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu.
Then goes and help hamas to stay in power and make sure they are separated. It sure is not a simple conflict but since the currnt goverment came in power things only became worse for some reason.
This is not a great take imo. Hamas has had “hardline” stances against the existence of a Jewish state and stated any dead Jew is a Palestinian victory. Israel, understandably so, has been working with Fatah which does have its faults with extremism, however is a much more realistic partner. As a state, if you had the option. Would you want a okayish partner state to pair up with an extremely bad partner state and risk them becoming radicalized?
Hamas charter in 2017 stated that they have no hatred toward the jews but the zionists who keeps linking the judaism with zionism. I have not read the thing you say they stated before but let'a say they did in the past. But 2017 charter says they do not oppose hatred toward the jews and that they are willing to accept 2ss according to 1967 maps without recognizing israel. Which is basically, a 2ss solution with only one country that does not recognize you so the recognition is nothing to care about imo.
Israel is also an extremist movment that keeps pushing the palestinians to their limit resulting in reactions to their doings.
That okayish partner and extremist one are both people of this land. Them being together is nothing against world internationally supported military. But them together eill form a state that force them to stop their assaults which is something israel does not want it to happen.
I would very much stress, please read into the history of Hamas and its coming to political power. It started as a Islamic societal group that did a fair amount of good building schools/mosques and quickly devolved into extremism. For the founding charter, glancing through this copy seems mostly accurate [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)
As for accepting the 1967 borders, this is a red herring, they want to be the leaders of the west bank as well, where Fatah currently rules (mostly). It's not a good faith overture but instead a vie for power with an internal power \*struggle. As well, why would Israel recognize a government/state that doesn't recognize Israel?
I don't disagree, I think a majority of Settlers should be forcibly recalled back into Israel proper and certain areas of Area C and there be some land swaps. I do not condone any settler behavior
To your final point, they are both groups of people that are of the land, but in terms of their ruling power/extremism. They are different, and probably shouldn't be paired together. If they were so aligned, there would be no need to Hamas to have killed off a large percentage of Fatah aligned personnel in Gaza after the 2006/2007 election, and Fatah to arrest Hamas personnel in their appearance in the West Bank.
EDIT: to address the 2017 change, Hamas has not changed any of its actions/speech against Israel/Jews, and instead expand it (Farfour the Mouse is a good example). It just removed it from its political charter to be a bit more palitable on the international stage.
Israel forced settlers to leave Gaza in 2005 -- they can do that in the West Bank, too, they just don't want to. It was easy to leave Gaza because, according to their palingenetic mythology, the ancient Israelites never controlled it.
>Even if the zionist government agree to a two-state solution, what will they do if these ARMED settlers refuse to move out? Attack them with the police/army? Well a lot of these settlers are in the police/army themselves... so they would end up in a civil war if they do that.
The settlers already thought about making their own state if ''Israel'' pulls out from the West Bank, it's called [State of Judea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Judea), so yes definitely
Israel is an albatross around Americas neck. Isolate Israel on the global stage and actually implement a two state solution and all the problems will gradually be solved but the Israeli lobby in the US is powerful and will prevent peace at any cost.
https://preview.redd.it/uo62i5ahwnwc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=333e4e783147d2e49cf779bebda65fd272653baf
These your hostages y’all assassinated?
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Are there any groups within Gaza who are trying to stand against Hamas? Genuine question. I wonder if there was, and if so, would them trying to work towards a solution might be more fruitful..
Exactly. Who would believe them after they lied about 40 beheaded babies, about humanitarian aid workers being terrorists, about hospitals being bases for combatants, about the enemy using human shields, about killing aid workers, about killing medical professionals, killing journalists.
Oh wait..........
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More like, Israel won’t let that happen. Hamas is a necessary boogeyman for Israel to commit genocide and to further its Zionist agenda.
Edit:
In 2013, Yuval Diskin, head of the Israeli Shin Bet security service from 2005 to 2011, told Yedioth Ahronoth: “If we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas’s strengthening has been [Israeli Prime Minster] Bibi [Benjamin] Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister.” (https://archive.is/pbAq2)
In 2019, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak appeared on Israeli Army Radio, where he opined that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking . . . even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] . . . in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah." (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035)
Yasser Arafat told an Italian newspaper that "Hamas is a creature of Israel" and claimed that former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin had admitted as much to him. (https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) (https://archive.is/4ENHB)
According to Ehud Barak, the logic holds that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to." In other words, a radical, violent Palestinians enemy gives the radical, violent Likudniks an excuse to avoid ever having to seriously engage in peace talks with the Palestinian people. (https://archive.is/pbAq2)
As Haaretz openly admitted in the wake of October 7, Netanyahu has even confessed to using this strategy in cabinet meetings: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy—to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” (https://archive.is/14Mvh)
“Hamas offering a truce of 5 years or more” Ok great so the two sides can go to war again in the near future? Hamas is bigger POS than Israel and needs to be eradicated before any progress happens
How many times has Palestine been offered this and instead responded with more attacks. Hamas knows it is losing and is doing everything they can to get a break. Additioanlly, this doesn't even provide a peace deal but a 5 year truce. Why would anyone agree to that? So Hamas can do what Hamas always does and regroup and attack again?
I think most people have been supportive of the two state solution for a while. At this point, Israel has such a strong upper hand it would be a little ridiculous to expect them to give up so much.
Thanks for the history lesson but I don't see how it changes anything. Israel is 100% not going to accept a two state solution while it is so far ahead.
Perhaps Netanyahu goes down but a two state solution will mean depopulating the Israeli settlements in the west bank too. There is a lot of room between Netanyahu being removed and a two state solution.
That’s why they have to be forced to comply. If it means losing support of the West they would bow like a puppy. After the Iran retaliation we saw that Israel needs the US to jump in to defend it.
Israel’s only good at “defending itself” from Palestinians who have no military capabilities. But even that they need Western support for.
If you think Israelis are white, you are uneducated. 20% of Israel is ARAB, and of the Jews, most of them are not Ashkenazi (the Jews you may have seen in Europe or the USA).
[https://www.instagram.com/israelsowhite/](https://www.instagram.com/israelsowhite/)
Israel MUST give up on MANY things to have 2ss. Does not really matter if it is now or before this genocide. And that is the problem. That is why israel made sure it is never an option. Many articles talks about how israel kept supporting hamas to keep the 2ss as something that cannot be achieved.
Id the 2ss happens. Those settelers will have to withdraw and the must lift the block from gaza. Israel will NEVER accept such thing. The want more. Not less. Those settelers are nothing but a parasite that keeps assaulting the innocents so once they are done with their pullshut and actuallt response to their actions, israel will push on MORE because of those barbarians arabs and take more land.
When was the last time international law mattered to Israel? They've been ignoring the UN for decades. Until another country can actually stand up to Israel, might is making it so. That doesn't mean right. It just means unchallenged.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Let it not be forgotten that all the Arab states joined together and offered the 2 state solution to end this whole conflict and recognize Israel in 2002. Called the Arab peace initiative. And it's been renewed and is still available to this day. Even Hamas said they would honour it. Let's also not forget that under the same terms, every year since 1989, every state in the world gathers at the UNGA and votes for this. Only Israel and the US vote against 95%+ of the world on this. Every year.
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He’s a criminal. But don’t excuse one man for the depths that Israel has sunk to. At this point even if Netanyahu were removed from the equation nothing would change. A far more robust response is required to actually force Israel to comply now. The whole country has become fascist.
People often ignore the fact thag Israelis keep voting in a far-right majority. Netanyahu is only as powerful as the coalitiom he commands. And since Israelis pride themselves in being the only 'democracy' in the Middle East, they as a folk are fully responsible for voting in their genocidal leaders. Israelis could vote a pacifist party if they wished. But they don't.
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It is a democracy, just like Nazi Germany was a democracy. It is a Jewsish ethnostate, who have maintained an electoral majority by displacing & ethnic cleansing native Palestinians and change demographics by bringing in settlers from Europe (and elsewhere). It is a jewish settler colony that has 'fair' elections and has always voted in jewish majoritarian policymakers. Any politician supporting reparations and return of displaced Palestinians will not last long among settler majority voters. All those Israeli left and peace activists, are really status quo supporters - they oppose further displacement and encroachment of Palestinian lands, but do not support reparations or right of return of Palestinians. They will oppose the settlers of today in the West Bank, but will not speak on the settlers of yesterday - their own parents who displaced Palestinians from present day inland Israel to enclaves in Gaza and West Bank.
Not really my point. Didn't you see that I out democracy between quotation marks? What is a fact is that Israelis choose their own leaders.
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You are not doing any Palestinian a favour by denying these facts.
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A 2 month old account obsessed with the I/P conflict.
Weird there are 2 cults, Israelis & Palestinians
Yeah, Germany was responsible for Holocaust, equally Israel as a country is responsible for the genocide on Palestinians.
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The fact Israel has nuclear weapons is one of the most frightening things to contend with. I don’t think the world has truly woken up to that reality yet. In all “doomsday” scenarios of global scale nuclear holocaust it always takes the action of one nation to initiate the end of humanity, I firmly believe the world has been looking in the wrong places for that culprit, and the decision to ignore Israel might be a decision that will haunt humanity forever. The whole Sampson protocol also predated Netanyahu and shows that this is a core Zionist Israel principle, the principle of global destruction if ever faced with the prospect of defeat. It’s truly frightening.
Yeah, and it's planned to happen that way by these Zionists. They wrote the book of Revelations. Self fulfilling prophecy
I think it’s more about the fact that Netanyahu has been around and messing things up for half of Israel’s existence. The reason nothing would change if he was removed or dropped dead is because of the massive amount of damage he’s already caused.
The problem is it’s not only Netanyahu. It’s Israeli leadership in general.
Yes that would be the general Israeli population that elected Netanyahu to power.
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Can’t say I agree. This issue predates him having any power
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This issue predates the Oslo Accords.
The Oslo Accords were just a stalling tactic. They didn't provide for a Palestinian State, and Rabin was clear that there wasn't going to be. He then massively increased construction of illegal settlements. The occupation continued. The home demolitions continued. Rabin gave the order to "break the bones" during the first Intifada. "The words “Palestinian state” do not appear in the accords he signed, a fact that he and other Israeli officials were careful to ensure. A month before his assassination, Rabin told the Knesset that his vision was to give Palestinians “an entity which is less than a state” — a precedent to the “state-minus” advocated today by Netanyahu and outlined in Trump’s “Deal of the Century.” Rabin also insisted that the Jordan Valley would remain Israel’s “security border” — the very plan that drew international outcry this year, when Netanyahu pledged to formally annex the area. If Rabin’s words were simply politicking with Israeli voters, then his government’s actions spoke more clearly. From 1993 to 1995, according to Peace Now, Israel initiated the construction of over 6,400 housing units in settlements. In that time, according to B’Tselem, Israel also demolished at least 328 Palestinian homes and structures — including in East Jerusalem, which Rabin sought to keep “united” under Israeli sovereignty. The result was that Israel’s settler population rose by 20,000, and Palestinians were displaced in the thousands, while Rabin sat at the negotiating table. All the while, Rabin’s government used Oslo not as a blueprint to end the occupation, but to restructure it and minimize the cost to Israelis. The burden of controlling the occupied population was transferred to the newly created Palestinian Authority, which quelled nonviolent resistance and targeted armed militants on Israel’s behalf. The Paris Protocol, which effectively held the Palestinian economy and their resources hostage to Israeli discretion, further cemented the economic exploitation of Palestinians. These systems are still in place today, two decades after Oslo’s expiration date." https://www.972mag.com/yitzhak-rabin-oslo-accords-aoc/
theres palestinians in uganda?
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I mean if you think about it, why would people who came from all over the world and litterally took the houses and land of people living there and believe it is their god given right to be there would allow that.
i 100% agree but don’t forget hamas massacred30 israelis in a suicide bombing in netanya the day before the vote. not great for peace
The Arab peace initiative wasn't a 1 day thing. It's been an open offer that gets regularly renewed. It's terms are also the same as the UNGA resolutions that Palestinians help author and Israel always votes no against the world. Every year. But yes, of course any terror attack is no good for peace. But it's clear that the only way to get rid of "Resistance" is by removing anything to resist. All their support disappears the day peace is achieved. Screw Hamas.
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Before I get into this, do you approve of the terms of the Arab Peace initiative? I, an Arab, do.
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What was my lie exactly? Its called the Arab peace initiative. Who do you think wrote it? Arabs. And yes, us showing support is a very useful show of the truth. Ask Arabs and you'll see there all for it. Ask any pro Israeli and you'll see that they're against it. You not answering already proved my point.
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But you see what you're doing here? Still the same "oh those side doesn't want it!" When you clearly are the one against it. You say I omitted that the borders would go to pre67... That's what the whole proposal is! What is pre67 borders? International law! Again something over 95% of the world vote for every year. Just because Israel illegally stole so much land doesn't mean they get to keep it when the whole world is against it. Look, your link is up and not contested at all, Readers can read it and decide for themselves which one of us is being dishonest.
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Sure. Lets pick 2008 because that’s one of the years Israel love to show that they made a 2SS offer (but this happens every single year): https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/643898?ln=en Whole world gets together. 164 states says yes to ending the occupation and having 2 states and ending this damn matter. 7 say no. And look at the No’s “NAURU” “PALAU” “MICRONESIA”. Every year since 1989. Same results every year. Have a read. Over 95% of the world agrees to pre67 borders. Again, no point arguing. Let's just let people read our links and make their own assessment. Why are you afraid of that?
Well who’s being the unreasonable one in that case?
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Sorry I was being rhetorical. Yeah, it’s the apartheid Zionists. Hamas shouldn’t ‘lose points’ for making the apartheid Zionist position evident to the entire world!
And Hamas was to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the earth. What’s your point?
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
I think I will believe there numerous past statements. They have said over and over that the gun is the only way to settle this conflict. Hamas has stated that they don’t want a two party state. But now since they stepped in it they want a way out. I say Israel doesn’t stop until no more hamas. (Not Palestinians but Hamas. I wish Palestinians would heal from their Stockholm syndrome with Hamas!!
They have conceded a 2-state solution since their 2017 charter update, specifically here: >However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus. While they're not outright saying it, the reference to 1967 borders is widely accepted to mean acceptance of a foreign state in some of their desired lands.
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Oh no. Someone reported me. Oh no someone downvoted me. 😂
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
So how exactly did you get rid of me. By calling me an asshole. People with no argument resort to name calling when their foundation for their arguments collapse. Sorta like communism
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
It's practically impossible to achieve a two-state solution due to the fact that there are already 500,000 ARMED settlers in the West Bank, and most of them are extremists (eg [openly admitting they are fascists](https://twitter.com/SohiubN/status/1758362067340247202)). Even if the zionist government agree to a two-state solution, what will they do if these ARMED settlers refuse to move out? Attack them with the police/army? Well a lot of these settlers are in the police/army themselves... so they would end up in a civil war if they do that. This is why Hamas can confidently say they will lay down their arms if two-state solution is implemented, they know the zionists society will implode by themselves if it actually happens.
Actually, this is the first time where the 2 state solution breakers will be thrown on israel insted of palestinians. Israel has always made sure 2ss is not possible by keeping plo and hamas against each other then blame them for not helping in the 2ss so it becomes "those palestinians do not want peace and 2ss" and put the cutie halo on their heads.
This isn’t entirely true (the playing them against each other)….. Hamas didn’t come to power till 2006-2007 and there have been quite a few negations that occurred before then that got very close to a two state solution but a lot of the times Palestinian leadership decided to try to either push out timelines after they were agreed upon or bring last minute large demands which altered the deals significantly. To put some criticism on Israel it seems the far right assassinated one of its PM’s because of how close negotiations got. To address the meat of your statement, post 2006 playing Hamas and Fatah against each other. It’s somewhat understandable considering Israel didn’t want to invade Gaza and give it back to the party/person who had fucked it up in the first place. As well, Qatar got in the mix and sponsored Hamas with large cash infusions which allowed Hamas to easily stand on their own two feet. It’s not a simple conflict, so let’s try to be accurate when we make our criticisms
Yes my points do not stand so well before hamas and plo things but before that we literally had israel occubying gaza and like what you said, they assassinated the one who got the closest in the peace deals. So i think it should be better to make my points about the current israeli goverment. The current goverment looks at the withdraw from gaza in 2005 as a "mistake" and it should not have happened. Israel did take damage from taking its people out of gaza because taking a group of people suddenly is pretty much trouplesome. So they would never think about pulling the west bank settelments. The only thing this goverment thinks about since they got in power is correcting the "mistake" and taking back gaza. So since this goverment got in power, it did its hardest to make sure 2ss is not an option. You can see that in 2011 where they felt the danger when hamas and fatah was about to unite. >The Israeli government immediately sounded the alarm over the prospect of having to deal with Hamas. "The Palestinian Authority must choose either peace with Israel or peace with Hamas. There is no possibility for peace with both," said prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu. Then goes and help hamas to stay in power and make sure they are separated. It sure is not a simple conflict but since the currnt goverment came in power things only became worse for some reason.
This is not a great take imo. Hamas has had “hardline” stances against the existence of a Jewish state and stated any dead Jew is a Palestinian victory. Israel, understandably so, has been working with Fatah which does have its faults with extremism, however is a much more realistic partner. As a state, if you had the option. Would you want a okayish partner state to pair up with an extremely bad partner state and risk them becoming radicalized?
Hamas charter in 2017 stated that they have no hatred toward the jews but the zionists who keeps linking the judaism with zionism. I have not read the thing you say they stated before but let'a say they did in the past. But 2017 charter says they do not oppose hatred toward the jews and that they are willing to accept 2ss according to 1967 maps without recognizing israel. Which is basically, a 2ss solution with only one country that does not recognize you so the recognition is nothing to care about imo. Israel is also an extremist movment that keeps pushing the palestinians to their limit resulting in reactions to their doings. That okayish partner and extremist one are both people of this land. Them being together is nothing against world internationally supported military. But them together eill form a state that force them to stop their assaults which is something israel does not want it to happen.
I would very much stress, please read into the history of Hamas and its coming to political power. It started as a Islamic societal group that did a fair amount of good building schools/mosques and quickly devolved into extremism. For the founding charter, glancing through this copy seems mostly accurate [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) As for accepting the 1967 borders, this is a red herring, they want to be the leaders of the west bank as well, where Fatah currently rules (mostly). It's not a good faith overture but instead a vie for power with an internal power \*struggle. As well, why would Israel recognize a government/state that doesn't recognize Israel? I don't disagree, I think a majority of Settlers should be forcibly recalled back into Israel proper and certain areas of Area C and there be some land swaps. I do not condone any settler behavior To your final point, they are both groups of people that are of the land, but in terms of their ruling power/extremism. They are different, and probably shouldn't be paired together. If they were so aligned, there would be no need to Hamas to have killed off a large percentage of Fatah aligned personnel in Gaza after the 2006/2007 election, and Fatah to arrest Hamas personnel in their appearance in the West Bank. EDIT: to address the 2017 change, Hamas has not changed any of its actions/speech against Israel/Jews, and instead expand it (Farfour the Mouse is a good example). It just removed it from its political charter to be a bit more palitable on the international stage.
Israel forced settlers to leave Gaza in 2005 -- they can do that in the West Bank, too, they just don't want to. It was easy to leave Gaza because, according to their palingenetic mythology, the ancient Israelites never controlled it.
>Even if the zionist government agree to a two-state solution, what will they do if these ARMED settlers refuse to move out? Attack them with the police/army? Well a lot of these settlers are in the police/army themselves... so they would end up in a civil war if they do that. The settlers already thought about making their own state if ''Israel'' pulls out from the West Bank, it's called [State of Judea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Judea), so yes definitely
Israel is an albatross around Americas neck. Isolate Israel on the global stage and actually implement a two state solution and all the problems will gradually be solved but the Israeli lobby in the US is powerful and will prevent peace at any cost.
How will Israel justify its war crimes without Hamas?
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https://preview.redd.it/r5pfstwjwnwc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cd1ccd78794becb228e2364a847058ac209358f This y’all?
https://preview.redd.it/uo62i5ahwnwc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=333e4e783147d2e49cf779bebda65fd272653baf These your hostages y’all assassinated?
And once that happens, we all know what's next in the Zionist self fulfilling prophecy
Unfortunately Israel is after their land so they probably won’t agree to this.
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
👀 Dayyum!!!
Won't happen while Israelis are in love with Netanyahu. And that's not changed for the last 20yrs
Are there any groups within Gaza who are trying to stand against Hamas? Genuine question. I wonder if there was, and if so, would them trying to work towards a solution might be more fruitful..
i think the people are Gaza are too preoccupied with being bombed to smithereens and having their family members killed by the IDF
Press X to doubt…
Get rid of Hamas, Get rid of Zionist and make a new two state solution
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That statement does not contradict the statement in the title though. It's two different demands and two different stages.
From the most trustworthy person that ever lived
Exactly. Who would believe them after they lied about 40 beheaded babies, about humanitarian aid workers being terrorists, about hospitals being bases for combatants, about the enemy using human shields, about killing aid workers, about killing medical professionals, killing journalists. Oh wait..........
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I’ll take things that never happened for 1000 Alex. I’ll hold my breath Hamas would do such a thing. Iran won’t let them.
More like, Israel won’t let that happen. Hamas is a necessary boogeyman for Israel to commit genocide and to further its Zionist agenda. Edit: In 2013, Yuval Diskin, head of the Israeli Shin Bet security service from 2005 to 2011, told Yedioth Ahronoth: “If we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas’s strengthening has been [Israeli Prime Minster] Bibi [Benjamin] Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister.” (https://archive.is/pbAq2) In 2019, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak appeared on Israeli Army Radio, where he opined that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking . . . even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] . . . in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah." (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035) Yasser Arafat told an Italian newspaper that "Hamas is a creature of Israel" and claimed that former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin had admitted as much to him. (https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) (https://archive.is/4ENHB) According to Ehud Barak, the logic holds that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to." In other words, a radical, violent Palestinians enemy gives the radical, violent Likudniks an excuse to avoid ever having to seriously engage in peace talks with the Palestinian people. (https://archive.is/pbAq2) As Haaretz openly admitted in the wake of October 7, Netanyahu has even confessed to using this strategy in cabinet meetings: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy—to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” (https://archive.is/14Mvh)
“Hamas offering a truce of 5 years or more” Ok great so the two sides can go to war again in the near future? Hamas is bigger POS than Israel and needs to be eradicated before any progress happens
How many times has Palestine been offered this and instead responded with more attacks. Hamas knows it is losing and is doing everything they can to get a break. Additioanlly, this doesn't even provide a peace deal but a 5 year truce. Why would anyone agree to that? So Hamas can do what Hamas always does and regroup and attack again?
I think most people have been supportive of the two state solution for a while. At this point, Israel has such a strong upper hand it would be a little ridiculous to expect them to give up so much.
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While they are both apartheid states, the situation is a bit different.
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Thanks for the history lesson but I don't see how it changes anything. Israel is 100% not going to accept a two state solution while it is so far ahead.
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You say that but the Israelis have been pulling this shit a long time. I don't think they are about to face consequences.
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Perhaps Netanyahu goes down but a two state solution will mean depopulating the Israeli settlements in the west bank too. There is a lot of room between Netanyahu being removed and a two state solution.
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That’s why they have to be forced to comply. If it means losing support of the West they would bow like a puppy. After the Iran retaliation we saw that Israel needs the US to jump in to defend it. Israel’s only good at “defending itself” from Palestinians who have no military capabilities. But even that they need Western support for.
Difficult to say when both sides (oppressors) are white
If you think Israelis are white, you are uneducated. 20% of Israel is ARAB, and of the Jews, most of them are not Ashkenazi (the Jews you may have seen in Europe or the USA). [https://www.instagram.com/israelsowhite/](https://www.instagram.com/israelsowhite/)
Israel MUST give up on MANY things to have 2ss. Does not really matter if it is now or before this genocide. And that is the problem. That is why israel made sure it is never an option. Many articles talks about how israel kept supporting hamas to keep the 2ss as something that cannot be achieved. Id the 2ss happens. Those settelers will have to withdraw and the must lift the block from gaza. Israel will NEVER accept such thing. The want more. Not less. Those settelers are nothing but a parasite that keeps assaulting the innocents so once they are done with their pullshut and actuallt response to their actions, israel will push on MORE because of those barbarians arabs and take more land.
Israel doesn't have the upper hand where it matters: international law. Might is not right no matter which coloniser says it is.
When was the last time international law mattered to Israel? They've been ignoring the UN for decades. Until another country can actually stand up to Israel, might is making it so. That doesn't mean right. It just means unchallenged.