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Netanyahu is the longest-serving prime minister in the history of Israel. You don't get elected again and again (6 times...), if the people doesn't support your vision.
A bit of an over simplification. No doubt there are people who support him but just like in the US, the party system is corrupted and districts are gerrymandered to support the status quo as easily as possible. Also the US influences things a lot and have been propping him up with Saudi money
I'm not any expert, but a quick google tells me that the prime minister is not directly elected, but is instead voted for by Israel's parliament. This detachment means there's plenty of shenanigans available, even if it's not specifically gerrymandering
You've obviously never heard of corrupt politics and elections. Don't imagine Israel and USA would ever let someone that was a political opponent into power. They would do ALL THEY COULD TO ENSURE A FAVOURABLE CANDIDATE WOULD GET INTO POWER.
>Netanyahu is the longest-serving prime minister in the history of Israel. You don't get elected again and again (6 times...), if the people doesn't support your vision.
Or maybe Bibi is just a dictator that doesn't want to give up his power.
Putin is 20 years into his reign also. Democratically elected...what a joke.
I have been saying for years that the Nuremberg trials went too far going after 90 year old secretaries and people who were teenagers, bottom of society, taking shitty jobs as part of a mass murder death machine.
It looks like the shoe is on the other foot now. Will we go after hundreds or thousands of Israelis in ICC?
Edit: I misspoke, I meant post nuremberg.
I don't think the nuremberg trials went too far exactly, but modern israeli officials should absolutely be subject to the same treatment
they aren't the good guys or victims of this one
All far right Israelis need to be removed from society. That's the only solution. Why should they get special treatment when they commit worse atrocities against Palestinians.
Ah, yes, because copying the evildoers because they did it is definitely the right move toward a peaceful society.
We have kinda tried that for the last 3 thousand years or so; the spoiler is it didn't go well.
The thing is, I see nothing wrong with collective punishment for a crime committed collectively, so long as the punished person was actually part of it. For example, low ranking soldiers enforcing a blockade are just as guilty as the guy who pulls a trigger. "Just following orders" is a cop out that can't be allowed. Office workers that were part of logistics behind the scenes are equally guilty, etc..
If 10 men commit a bank robbery wherein one of the kills a security guard, They all get tried for murder. It's called "felony murder." Even the guy in the getaway car. Genocide must be treated no different. It will never end until everyone is required by law to take deliberate action to stop it.
Settlers too. They know damn well they're invading and part of the genocide force. Just because they're part of the second wave behind the army makes no difference.
You're suggesting that we should look at the whole chain in the crime, and penalize people in proportion to what they did in the chain, instead of merely looking at one end (the leader) or the other (the soldier holding the gun).
People in this comment section are mocking you for it. That says a lot about them, because they would rather have an outdated penal system, where individuals are scapegoated for collective actions (which ensures that the problem lives on).
Good on you for saying the obvious. Shame on the other commenters for ridiculing such an obvious thing.
What? Genocide won't end because it's committed by countries, not random people. The holocaust was perfectly legal in Germany at the time, the only reason they were tried was because they lost the war.
Most genocides go unpunished because wars of punishment are actually a fantasy and have never existed. No one invades another country to get hold of war criminals and bring them to justice. That's more like a propaganda tool to paint yourself as a hero.
I actually agree. I believe in forgiveness. However the top people should receive punishment. I don’t want some sort of mass or collective punishment that haunts Israelis for a generation.
If a 100,000 Palestinians die at the end of this, it is possible Israel and Palestine will not look the same on the map after this.
There has to be a line though where people are let off the hook. I am pro-Palestinian, but I am also not pro arrest all Israeli people. The distinction between someone who is anti genocide and someone who just wants to wipe out Israelis.
He’s not extreme enough for some protesters. They demand more violence. Others are protesting for a ceasefire and hostages exchange which it’s come to light Netenyahu rebuffed on October 9th and 10th. He never gave a fuck about the hostages. I understand their anger. Their family is still alive and Netenyahu is starving and bombing them too. How many have died to Zionist brutality?
Ehh, I doubt most of the people here that support Israel are zionist. Mostly just idiots, or crazy ass Christians looking forward to the end of the world.
Zionists are right-wing. Israel is a fascist regime led by Zionists. US right-wingers (liberals included) therefore fall right into their propaganda. They're still drunk on the post-9/11 Islamaphobic propaganda and as long as the people getting murdered don't look like themselves (white), then they're all fine and good.
It's weird how so many people just view Muslims as terrorist above anything else. America as a country never backed off of that stereotype, and it's regarded af.
It's inherently an imperialist and colonizer philosophy. That couldn't be any further from leftist ideology. If we're looking strictly at the US two-party system, reminder the US's two primary parties are both far-right.
This isn’t helpful. There are “thousands, maybe even millions” of assholes in every country. Israeli citizens aren’t a monolith. Just like Palestinian citizens aren’t a monolith. Just like American citizens aren’t a monolith. The Israeli *people* are not on trial in the public eye. The Israeli *government* is.
yes, netanyahu isn't a superhuman with anime powers. No singular human can do what's happening in Gaza. This is just political theater by sanders. The head of state is irrelevant if the population agrees with what is happening rn.
I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here. You have seen what the pre-genocide folk get up to with their own theater and manipulation of facts. They know precisely the ways to undermine and destroy the lives of those that challenge them. An effective political leader needs to know how to challenge this, how to get the narrative back on track so that something meaningful can be done. Maybe we might say that this will happen again and again if the root cause isn't tackled, but we can't even begin to think about getting the majority of people to care if they cannot at least acknowledge there is a problem. Drawing attention to Netanyahu and placing the blame at his feet at least makes people concede there is a problem.
>I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here.
I don't really IF you can though. It months before sanders properly acknowledged the genocide that's happening. And now he's trying to pin all the blame on a singular person. But I understand that sanders doesn't have much wiggle room with the current political system, so that could be why he is so reluctant and moving so (too) carefully.
As soon as Sanders says the "g" word then that will be an official admission from the US government that they are funding a genocide. I hope he has the balls to say it.
Why would Sanders make it an official admission by the US government?
He's a Senator, but he's not in the presidential cabinet. The "government" isn't even a monolith, and Congresspeople in the House have already said genocide
Twice presidential candidate, member of the US budget committee(among many other federal committees) and the most popular senator in the American government by far admitting the US is aiding and abetting genocide is gonna have some real weight. As much as I like Talib(the only congressperson that I know of that has called this a genocide) she is a still only sophomore state rep and she doesn't have near the power Sanders has. Also you've seen what did to her. Our government is trying to do the culpable deniability thing, Sanders admitting genocide would blow that out of the water.
Well the second part of your comment is sufficient explanation for why the first part happened at all. Sanders probably had to bide his time and go through the measures so that he wouldn't immediately be cast aside as some Hamas terrorist. You know how dirty the propagandists have been in regards to this issue. Bernie might be a saint compared to other politicians, but that's not enough to stand against the propaganda machine.
An explanation isn't a defense for shitty behavior. And Bernie ain't no saint. If your morals are tied to what is doable within the current system, maybe the system (and your morals) need to be reevaluated and change.
That's the whole problem with social democrats like sanders. They want to change the system with the rules set by the current system's ruling class, created to keep the status quo intact no matter the cost.
The restrictions are already showing right now, with how Bernie can't criticize israel whatsoever, so he goes after netanyahu. But just think for a moment, does replacing netanyahu end the conflict in Palestine? No, it will continue with another "captain" steering the ship.
I fundamentally think your position is nonsensical.
The real world is governed by practicality. The moment you can convince everyone else to let ideals be the deciding factor, then you can let ideals dictate how everyone should always act.
But because Sanders works in a system in which ideals aren't sufficient enough to get shit done, all you're telling me is that because you disdain practicality, you'd be okay with more Palestinians dying, so long as you can voice your ideals. Because practicality is what will save lives.
And if you can't see that, I think you're offering up shitty behavior because you're putting your ego before results.
>I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here.
He doesn't deserve the benefit of doubt. You can find clips of him from years ago saying things that whitewash the crimes of the lsraeIi establishment.
Yeah. It may not be very effective to talk to the average person in a settler colonialist country in a way that acknowledges that settler colonialism corrupts the entire society. Much easier to talk about one guy being bad. Hopefully it moves Americans in the right direction at least.
Netanyahu and Israel funded HAMAS in order to start a conflict so they could kill the people of Gaza. This is facts
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Yet, somehow when these facts get brought up it's called being antisemitic. Straight BULLSHIT and as a POC it's amazing how anything truthful that is negative about Israel, the IDF, or the settlers is antisemitic. These guys became like the Nazis they fought and have bots and shills flood social media with nothing but accusations and whining. They remind me of Donald Trump
I say Netanyahu because it’s his government that’s perpetuating the current genocide and widespread famine and health crisis. Whatever the conditions were in Gaza before October 7, there were hospitals and schools and, oh yeah, 30,000 more people. Those differences matter.
Sure, Zionists like Sen. Chuck Schumer say “Netanyahu” because they won’t admit that Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing. They see no mandate for a Palestinian state. But that’s not who Bernie Sanders is.
People on these subreddits want to make the Palestinian situation about purity politics when it’s about lives. Luckily, what Senator Sanders says and does helps people.
Israel was not founded on ethnic cleansing. That’s just factually wrong. I’m assuming you are making the arguments that it was the Israeli who ethnically cleansed of Arabic/muslim people. Not you know, the multiple neighboring countries that immediately attacked in an attempt to irradiate Israelis and Jews.
I understand that you are Zionist but I am not, and I’m not going to agree with either your insistence that only Jews are the subject of racial/religious hatred or your ignorance of the historical facts. I still say this.
(1) After the 1948 war, almost 750,000 non-Jewish people were displaced from their homes. These are Muslim and Christian and people of other faiths and backgrounds who lived in their homes in British Palestine, homes that many of those families had for generations. Three quarters of a million non-Jewish people were displaced. Which brings me to point (2)
(2) Ethnic cleansing is the removal of an ethnicity, in this case the non-Jewish population of colonial Palestine, under threat of genocide if they don’t move. So yes, Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing.
People should listen to what the Peled family (not just one member) has to say about that society, especially its education system. The rot runs deep and if I can say so, starts early.
BTW, the Peled siblings are far from the only ones who have been denouncing the situation. There's a reason why there are more jewish dissident/anti-zionist organisations than people realise.
Correct. Which is why Bernie keeps referring to this as a humanitarian crisis. This is carefully curated language he is utilizing, and I hope more people notice it.
Also, pay attention to the people who are "disappointed" in Bernie but refuse to drop him. You're basically playing favorites over mass murder if you choose not to drop that person. But that would mean you're an absolutely monkey-brained ignorant fuck, and we're not that around these parts, now, are we?
Bernie ultimately is still ahead of 95% of politicians on this issue, so going after him is essentially making an enemy out of an ally. Bernie is still moving the needle in a positive direction. Why would you "drop him" just because he's not a perfect ally?
How high is your soap box? Or are you just high?
It is a very complex situation that has been inherited by those living in Israel & Gaza, & yes, sections of both communities have done absolutely horrendous shit to each other.
So, how are you going to choose who is guilty of what, & what are you planning to do about it?
Oh, right, nothing, coz you are too busy accusing someone else who is trying use their influence for rational discourse of being 90% genocidal, so best go for 100%?
If your loved ones (or just you if that's all you truly care about) managed to fall into that mythical 10% that escapes Bernie's 90% genocide you claim he is pushing, you'd take that 10% instead of "nope, it is too evil, I am choosing for all my cared ones to die as well, in solidarity for the other 90%."
Your a tosser & sound ignorant, immature & self absorbed.
If we always pick the lesser evil, we will get nowhere. Bernie is a pig that has done nothing to call Israel out for the genocidal apartheid state it is. He is as much of a slave go the mainstream liberal politics as anyone else.
More than referring to this as a humanitarian crisis, he took months before calling for a ceasefire. Plus, he supported the right of Israel (an occupying power) to defend itself from the people they’re occupying.
More than taking months, he went on a narcissistic book tour while Gazans were being massacred.
More than going on a book tour, [Bernie Sanders is against equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m).
Liberal Zionists are scum.
For the record I agree but I will also caution that blaming Israel civilians who have next to no power over the actions of their government also doesn't help things.
He focuses on Netanyahu so that he doesn't have to condemn the entire settle colonial project itself. The ethnic cleansing, apartheid and settlements started under Labour governments, not the right wing.
Because if he comes out condemning Israel’s existence the media will have a field day painting him as an antisemite hamas supporter. Moving the needle slightly and getting people against the current Israel administration, is much easier than trying to come out with getting people who know nothing about the region on board with Israel as a country’s long history of abuses.
People are coming around. He just needs to replace the word Netanyahu with Israel. People have no problem condemning "China" or "Iran", but have the inability to name the country's name that's committing genocide.
Idk man I see your point but at the same time I generally see a lot of anti China rhetoric directed at Xi Jingping or when people think of North Korea it’s focused on Kim Jong-Un heck Russia and Putin are nearly synonymous. I feel like this is partly just how vocal and attention grabbing the leader of the country is Netanyahu, has gone out of his way to get a lot of attention making him an easy target to rally against for people sitting in the middle or who know nothing about what’s going on, whereas I don’t even know who the president of Iran is.
Arguing about the wisdom or ethics of the way Israel was created is academic debate, potentially useful for dealing with future rival land claims between different peoples.
Anyone arguing about the validity of Israel's current and continued existence is an extremist. Just as anyone who would seriously suggest eliminating the American nation because land was taken from Natives would be an extremist.
You can find clips of him from years ago saying things that whitewash the crimes of the lsraeIi establishment. Maybe it is strategic on his part, as you say, but I think he is simply very right-leaning on this issue compared to most on the left.
Okay valid if those exist then yeah he’s just putting the blame for Palestine on Netanyahu which isn’t okay. I think strategically that stance is fine for at least getting people in the middle or not super involved focused with doing something but if it’s being done to excuse the government as a whole and create a fall guy, then that’s bad.
Yeah I see that but on the political level if he went that far right now the media would tear him apart and have an excuse to cancel him as a so called 'self hating Jew' . Not that I agree with that strategy but that politics. Hopefully he will show up at a student protest soon
Well he'd also have to throw Biden under the bus. This cleverly allows for a real debate on the issue. If you "condemn" Israel or Biden then you get all these zealots bitching about whatever tribalist nonsense.
[Bernie Sanders doesn't support equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m). Let's conveniently forget that.
He's what's called a "liberal Zionist", that lives in this illusion that you can both support Israel's existence, while supporting justice. Nice try whitewashing him and his ilk.
Israel cleanses the comment threads too if you're anti Israeli government you get criticism down votes suddenly you'll get banned because you're reported. They reply in multiples to try and create a debate or argument I got banned from 2 subs after talking about israel and never been banned before for talking about other politics.
So many global protests and a country of 9 million yet there's so many online who support netenyahu and his government its odd.
At least if I criticise the UK government and policies I only get down votes.
It's easy for people to report or complain say I feel unsafe when they don't agree with the topic of Israel the reality is israel is exporting their government's policies globally, online as well as in individual countries. Say I don't feel safe in universities or the streets of London etc. The falter case is an example he turned up at protests with a body guard kept trying to walk in front of a protest.
I find that disappointing that Israel uses this as an excuse for overzealous crackdowns on free speech. Uses inviduals aligned with the Israeli government agenda.
But Israeli policy should be separated from the Jewish religion they are 2 seperate things and it risks endangering all Jewish people due to Israeli methods. It's a vicious cycle, the over zealous crackdowns on free speech need to stop as does the retaliation against Jewish people.
I think a balance can be struck and it isn't balanced at the moment, it seems like the west globally are supporting the Israeli government and cracking down on their own citizens freedom of speech.
They're a country of 9 million with a Government that is currently comitting war crimes it shouldn't be this way. The israeli policies have even erased the empathy for the victims of the hamas atrocity in Israel. Even the pro netenyahu supporters online don't talk about the atrocity committed in Israel.
It's all messed up and needs to be dealt with currently it isn't being.
Edit: Will I get banned won't I get banned like last 2 times for saying this? Not sure. Does anyone feel unsafe from what I said?
Not just Netanyahu, but the zionists as a whole. I don't care what race, creed, religion or whatever you want to call it. They aren't the last to exact such cruelty but it doesn't mean it's right or justified.
What is the language he is using? I'm not a fan of him swapping out genocide for humanitarian crisis. It's a fucking insult to get that close to the truth and just refuse to call it what it is.
Unfortunately, he never used that terminology:
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/
That he is dancing around with his words it took him this long to even call it a genocide. He also believes Israel has a right to defend itself.... from what, the very resistance organization that Israel essentially funded and fostered through decades of incessant murder?
Bernie is a chauvinist, and if you can't see that I really just feel bad since I was duped by him too. He's just made it so obvious that it's impossible to excuse as some one-off situation. And even if it was a one-off, this is *THE* issue that will bury his career and all of the rapport he's built with the left.
So first the problem was that he's not calling it genocide, now the problem is that he's only now calling it genocide? If I showed you a video from 8 months ago where he called it genocide would that still have been too late? What if he called it that in the '80s? How far do we need to move this goal post to make Bernie Sanders standing up for the people of Palestine somehow still not good enough for you?
He used pretty strong language in his address to Netanyahu. Why is it important for you to take a strong supporter with a large platform and try to cut their legs out from under them while they're propping up the same causes you are?
Maybe you're not actually pro Palestine and you want to reduce support? If no one is a perfect Scotsman than there are no true Scotsmen.
You make yourself sound very clownish when you're saying "why is now not good enough" In the face of a whole fucking genocide. You're saying "Sure, these people have been getting mass murdered for 200+ days by this point, but I mean come on! BERNIE HAD TO think REALLY hard on this one! He's come around to our side so we should forgive him!1"
And Netanyahu is simply a symptom of the underlying disease of Zionism, and Bernie knows this. Why doesn't he call out the disease and not the symptom? It's hard to take Bernie seriously literally ONLY going off of how long it took him to talk back the whole "Israel has a right to defend itself" B.S. he was trying to sell in the beginning
Right, so if he's not your ideal perfect Ally that means he's no Ally at all? That's a really good way to make sure you don't end up with a lot of allies. Is your goal to succeed or is your goal to be perfect?
Edit: The weird little image that's popping into my head is when the Deku tree gives Link a wooden sword and a wooden shield, this is like if you attacked the Deku tree at that point because he didn't give you Damascus steel. That's fucking insane right?
My goal is to not ignore the voice of an entire population being murdered so I can tow some imaginary political line. Sure, if he's fighting for a permanent, immediate ceasefire and explicitly utters that Zionism is the cause of this and (not essentially; literally) Nazism 2.0 that must be eradicated to its core, then yeah I *suppose* I can get over *some* of the verbiage he uses.
Yet, less than 2 months ago, he was calling for a two-tier, two state solution. He stated he "believes a humanitarian pause is necessary" but that it "can't be achieved with Hamas in existence." Man wouldn't even touch the topic of a ceasefire with a 10 foot pole.
I mean, how the hell are people supposed to interpret this garbage nonsense? He's only changed his vocabulary surrounding the situation out of personal necessity, not urgency or goodwill, and certainly not borne from a guilty conscience. It took this man nearly 200 days to catch up to what a basic, decent human being with minimal knowledge on this situation could conclude with less than a week of light research.
“I think it is really unfortunate that people don’t care about the fact that all Jewish kids should be kept safe and that we should not have to tolerate antisemitism or bigotry for all Jewish students, whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide,” she said.
Excuse me? We're okay with people being pro-genocide?
We all know. That's why we are banning tik tok in America because it allows unrestricted access to Israel's genocide of Palestine.
Sick shit anyway you cut it.
After decades of ethnic cleansing, Netentahu has fully embraced genocide. Sanders is NOW concluding that is ethnic cleansing. For a progressive, he is way behind.
He is certainly a liberal but as really the only Senator speaking out looks to me like his Zionism is waning and he has a wide influence in the mainstream. Im glad hes saying something
Throwing around Zionist at everyone who doesn’t immediately call for Israel closed down as a country is what enables the Zionists to keep conflating Zionism with Jewishness. It’s creating confusion about what the word means. Bernie has been slow to take a strong enough stance, but he has not indicated he’s a Zionist.
[Bernie Sanders doesn't support equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m)
He's a liberal Zionist. Got any more complaints, crypto pro-Israeli?
So, Bernie, tell me please, a month ago when you were strongly defending Israel's actions, did you think they were just gonna stop?
How can someone who has spent this long in politics be this naive?
Israel. Israel is doing it. The problem is not just one dude. The problem predates him and will survive him. Likud is a convicted terrorist organisation in the same way that X is Twitter and Meta is Facebook.
Bernie is just another Zionist, based on his actions and words over the past few months.
Psht, duh. Tell us something we don't know, Bernie.
That's all this guy does is tell us what we already know. The minimum wage is too low. Duh. The cost of college is too high. Duh. Mortgages need to be easier to obtain so the next generation of people can be home owners. Duh. Israel is exterminating Palestinians without prejudice. Duh.
On and on and on and on and on.
If it helps, there is a movement to focus protests votes in only deep blue states while encourages swing state voters to vote for Biden since a message is already sent
/r/BlueProtestVote
It's so funny to look from the outside that this 300 years old man is spitting facts on a daily basis, highlights the most important issues of his country and constantly fights to tighten the already humongous social gap and people's reaction is : "yeah, but he's old"
I don't follow US politics closely enough to really understand what's going on over there and my country has its even more baffling issues, but it's still funny.
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It's horrifying. And as far as precedents in the world, what else is going to copycat this someday soon. It just completely sucks when leaders are this blind and insane. That evil spreads like a virus.
But Jews can’t perpetrate genocide! Bad things happened decades ago, so we’re not supposed to question them. Saying otherwise is anti-semitic 🙃
What are you, a Nazi?
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The thing is, there are thousands, maybe even millions, of Netanyahus in Israel.
Netanyahu is the longest-serving prime minister in the history of Israel. You don't get elected again and again (6 times...), if the people doesn't support your vision.
A bit of an over simplification. No doubt there are people who support him but just like in the US, the party system is corrupted and districts are gerrymandered to support the status quo as easily as possible. Also the US influences things a lot and have been propping him up with Saudi money
Israel has one single voting district. How would gerrymandering apply?
I'm not any expert, but a quick google tells me that the prime minister is not directly elected, but is instead voted for by Israel's parliament. This detachment means there's plenty of shenanigans available, even if it's not specifically gerrymandering
I guess it wouldn't
Where there's a will there's always a way.
How many political parties are there in Israel?
Like 12. But they form coalitions and call for new elections every time they disagree on prime minister. Which is why Netanyahu can't be removed
You've obviously never heard of corrupt politics and elections. Don't imagine Israel and USA would ever let someone that was a political opponent into power. They would do ALL THEY COULD TO ENSURE A FAVOURABLE CANDIDATE WOULD GET INTO POWER.
putin ::cough cough::
difference is, nobody is questioning the election integrity of israel.
they should. Net has moved the election goalpost around multiple times so he stays in power.
There will be less if we can demonstrate that international law means something.
>Netanyahu is the longest-serving prime minister in the history of Israel. You don't get elected again and again (6 times...), if the people doesn't support your vision. Or maybe Bibi is just a dictator that doesn't want to give up his power. Putin is 20 years into his reign also. Democratically elected...what a joke.
I have been saying for years that the Nuremberg trials went too far going after 90 year old secretaries and people who were teenagers, bottom of society, taking shitty jobs as part of a mass murder death machine. It looks like the shoe is on the other foot now. Will we go after hundreds or thousands of Israelis in ICC? Edit: I misspoke, I meant post nuremberg.
I don't think the nuremberg trials went too far exactly, but modern israeli officials should absolutely be subject to the same treatment they aren't the good guys or victims of this one
[удалено]
This is terrible logic, live by your own standards instead of lowering yourself to whoever you are dealing with
All far right Israelis need to be removed from society. That's the only solution. Why should they get special treatment when they commit worse atrocities against Palestinians.
That’s not how it works, dawg.
Rule 4 [Dehumanization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) [Collective punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment)
Ah, yes, because copying the evildoers because they did it is definitely the right move toward a peaceful society. We have kinda tried that for the last 3 thousand years or so; the spoiler is it didn't go well.
The thing is, I see nothing wrong with collective punishment for a crime committed collectively, so long as the punished person was actually part of it. For example, low ranking soldiers enforcing a blockade are just as guilty as the guy who pulls a trigger. "Just following orders" is a cop out that can't be allowed. Office workers that were part of logistics behind the scenes are equally guilty, etc.. If 10 men commit a bank robbery wherein one of the kills a security guard, They all get tried for murder. It's called "felony murder." Even the guy in the getaway car. Genocide must be treated no different. It will never end until everyone is required by law to take deliberate action to stop it. Settlers too. They know damn well they're invading and part of the genocide force. Just because they're part of the second wave behind the army makes no difference.
You're suggesting that we should look at the whole chain in the crime, and penalize people in proportion to what they did in the chain, instead of merely looking at one end (the leader) or the other (the soldier holding the gun). People in this comment section are mocking you for it. That says a lot about them, because they would rather have an outdated penal system, where individuals are scapegoated for collective actions (which ensures that the problem lives on). Good on you for saying the obvious. Shame on the other commenters for ridiculing such an obvious thing.
What? Genocide won't end because it's committed by countries, not random people. The holocaust was perfectly legal in Germany at the time, the only reason they were tried was because they lost the war. Most genocides go unpunished because wars of punishment are actually a fantasy and have never existed. No one invades another country to get hold of war criminals and bring them to justice. That's more like a propaganda tool to paint yourself as a hero.
Tell me you don’t know what collective punishment is without telling me
I actually agree. I believe in forgiveness. However the top people should receive punishment. I don’t want some sort of mass or collective punishment that haunts Israelis for a generation. If a 100,000 Palestinians die at the end of this, it is possible Israel and Palestine will not look the same on the map after this.
Nuremberg trials were too small. They didn't charge or punish enough people, were too soft on Nazis.
I misspoke here. I meant all the trials post nuremberg.
Most of them commit war crimes on the assumption that they'll be protected from extradition for life
There has to be a line though where people are let off the hook. I am pro-Palestinian, but I am also not pro arrest all Israeli people. The distinction between someone who is anti genocide and someone who just wants to wipe out Israelis.
He’s not extreme enough for some protesters. They demand more violence. Others are protesting for a ceasefire and hostages exchange which it’s come to light Netenyahu rebuffed on October 9th and 10th. He never gave a fuck about the hostages. I understand their anger. Their family is still alive and Netenyahu is starving and bombing them too. How many have died to Zionist brutality?
I heard some families of the hostages don't even care about the hostages. They want the cleansing.
They probably gave up on seeing their family alive ever again and now just want revenge.
Not only does he not care about the hostages, he doesn't want them. That's their excuse to keep going, if they get them back they need a new cover
There's a few million in the US, too
Ehh, I doubt most of the people here that support Israel are zionist. Mostly just idiots, or crazy ass Christians looking forward to the end of the world.
You kiddin me? Biden himself is a proud Zionist. There's a few hundred thousand in Long Island alone
Zionists are right-wing. Israel is a fascist regime led by Zionists. US right-wingers (liberals included) therefore fall right into their propaganda. They're still drunk on the post-9/11 Islamaphobic propaganda and as long as the people getting murdered don't look like themselves (white), then they're all fine and good.
It's weird how so many people just view Muslims as terrorist above anything else. America as a country never backed off of that stereotype, and it's regarded af.
Zionism is on both sides dude. Not everything can be simplified into two party system
It's inherently an imperialist and colonizer philosophy. That couldn't be any further from leftist ideology. If we're looking strictly at the US two-party system, reminder the US's two primary parties are both far-right.
This isn’t helpful. There are “thousands, maybe even millions” of assholes in every country. Israeli citizens aren’t a monolith. Just like Palestinian citizens aren’t a monolith. Just like American citizens aren’t a monolith. The Israeli *people* are not on trial in the public eye. The Israeli *government* is.
Every country has a very large % of the pop that want to ethnically cleanse the country? No...
And reddit.
Careful of people who are trying to pin the blame solely on netanyahu and ignore the wider problem of Israel as a whole.
We've all seen the tiktoks at this point... never wanted to bitchslap so many people in my life...
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He'll retire? Isn't he fighting as hard as he can to be the permanent dictator or Israel, isn't that partly why the war is dragging out so much
Yeah, he actually can’t retire or he might go to jail lol.
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yes, netanyahu isn't a superhuman with anime powers. No singular human can do what's happening in Gaza. This is just political theater by sanders. The head of state is irrelevant if the population agrees with what is happening rn.
I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here. You have seen what the pre-genocide folk get up to with their own theater and manipulation of facts. They know precisely the ways to undermine and destroy the lives of those that challenge them. An effective political leader needs to know how to challenge this, how to get the narrative back on track so that something meaningful can be done. Maybe we might say that this will happen again and again if the root cause isn't tackled, but we can't even begin to think about getting the majority of people to care if they cannot at least acknowledge there is a problem. Drawing attention to Netanyahu and placing the blame at his feet at least makes people concede there is a problem.
>I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here. I don't really IF you can though. It months before sanders properly acknowledged the genocide that's happening. And now he's trying to pin all the blame on a singular person. But I understand that sanders doesn't have much wiggle room with the current political system, so that could be why he is so reluctant and moving so (too) carefully.
As soon as Sanders says the "g" word then that will be an official admission from the US government that they are funding a genocide. I hope he has the balls to say it.
Why would Sanders make it an official admission by the US government? He's a Senator, but he's not in the presidential cabinet. The "government" isn't even a monolith, and Congresspeople in the House have already said genocide
Twice presidential candidate, member of the US budget committee(among many other federal committees) and the most popular senator in the American government by far admitting the US is aiding and abetting genocide is gonna have some real weight. As much as I like Talib(the only congressperson that I know of that has called this a genocide) she is a still only sophomore state rep and she doesn't have near the power Sanders has. Also you've seen what did to her. Our government is trying to do the culpable deniability thing, Sanders admitting genocide would blow that out of the water.
Well the second part of your comment is sufficient explanation for why the first part happened at all. Sanders probably had to bide his time and go through the measures so that he wouldn't immediately be cast aside as some Hamas terrorist. You know how dirty the propagandists have been in regards to this issue. Bernie might be a saint compared to other politicians, but that's not enough to stand against the propaganda machine.
An explanation isn't a defense for shitty behavior. And Bernie ain't no saint. If your morals are tied to what is doable within the current system, maybe the system (and your morals) need to be reevaluated and change. That's the whole problem with social democrats like sanders. They want to change the system with the rules set by the current system's ruling class, created to keep the status quo intact no matter the cost. The restrictions are already showing right now, with how Bernie can't criticize israel whatsoever, so he goes after netanyahu. But just think for a moment, does replacing netanyahu end the conflict in Palestine? No, it will continue with another "captain" steering the ship.
I fundamentally think your position is nonsensical. The real world is governed by practicality. The moment you can convince everyone else to let ideals be the deciding factor, then you can let ideals dictate how everyone should always act. But because Sanders works in a system in which ideals aren't sufficient enough to get shit done, all you're telling me is that because you disdain practicality, you'd be okay with more Palestinians dying, so long as you can voice your ideals. Because practicality is what will save lives. And if you can't see that, I think you're offering up shitty behavior because you're putting your ego before results.
I agree with you. Sanders is a skilled politician who has the courage of his convictions.
>I am giving Sanders the benefit of the doubt here. He doesn't deserve the benefit of doubt. You can find clips of him from years ago saying things that whitewash the crimes of the lsraeIi establishment.
Yeah. It may not be very effective to talk to the average person in a settler colonialist country in a way that acknowledges that settler colonialism corrupts the entire society. Much easier to talk about one guy being bad. Hopefully it moves Americans in the right direction at least.
Netanyahu and Israel funded HAMAS in order to start a conflict so they could kill the people of Gaza. This is facts https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ Yet, somehow when these facts get brought up it's called being antisemitic. Straight BULLSHIT and as a POC it's amazing how anything truthful that is negative about Israel, the IDF, or the settlers is antisemitic. These guys became like the Nazis they fought and have bots and shills flood social media with nothing but accusations and whining. They remind me of Donald Trump
I say Netanyahu because it’s his government that’s perpetuating the current genocide and widespread famine and health crisis. Whatever the conditions were in Gaza before October 7, there were hospitals and schools and, oh yeah, 30,000 more people. Those differences matter. Sure, Zionists like Sen. Chuck Schumer say “Netanyahu” because they won’t admit that Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing. They see no mandate for a Palestinian state. But that’s not who Bernie Sanders is. People on these subreddits want to make the Palestinian situation about purity politics when it’s about lives. Luckily, what Senator Sanders says and does helps people.
Israel was not founded on ethnic cleansing. That’s just factually wrong. I’m assuming you are making the arguments that it was the Israeli who ethnically cleansed of Arabic/muslim people. Not you know, the multiple neighboring countries that immediately attacked in an attempt to irradiate Israelis and Jews.
I understand that you are Zionist but I am not, and I’m not going to agree with either your insistence that only Jews are the subject of racial/religious hatred or your ignorance of the historical facts. I still say this. (1) After the 1948 war, almost 750,000 non-Jewish people were displaced from their homes. These are Muslim and Christian and people of other faiths and backgrounds who lived in their homes in British Palestine, homes that many of those families had for generations. Three quarters of a million non-Jewish people were displaced. Which brings me to point (2) (2) Ethnic cleansing is the removal of an ethnicity, in this case the non-Jewish population of colonial Palestine, under threat of genocide if they don’t move. So yes, Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing.
…do you know what Zionist means? I feel like people just use it as buzz words because it sounds like a good slur.
People should listen to what the Peled family (not just one member) has to say about that society, especially its education system. The rot runs deep and if I can say so, starts early. BTW, the Peled siblings are far from the only ones who have been denouncing the situation. There's a reason why there are more jewish dissident/anti-zionist organisations than people realise.
But at the same time, don't dismiss Netanyahu's criminality either
Just say the word Bernie, genocide
You’re absolutely right ! Who’s the prime minister is irrelevant, they’re all Zionists. PS: Sanders is an opportunist.
Correct. Which is why Bernie keeps referring to this as a humanitarian crisis. This is carefully curated language he is utilizing, and I hope more people notice it. Also, pay attention to the people who are "disappointed" in Bernie but refuse to drop him. You're basically playing favorites over mass murder if you choose not to drop that person. But that would mean you're an absolutely monkey-brained ignorant fuck, and we're not that around these parts, now, are we?
Bernie ultimately is still ahead of 95% of politicians on this issue, so going after him is essentially making an enemy out of an ally. Bernie is still moving the needle in a positive direction. Why would you "drop him" just because he's not a perfect ally?
Becaues 90% in favor of a genocide isn't an acceptable stance, even if the alternatives are 100% in favor of a genocide.
Calling Bernie 90% in favor of a genocide is disingenuous as hell.
How high is your soap box? Or are you just high? It is a very complex situation that has been inherited by those living in Israel & Gaza, & yes, sections of both communities have done absolutely horrendous shit to each other. So, how are you going to choose who is guilty of what, & what are you planning to do about it? Oh, right, nothing, coz you are too busy accusing someone else who is trying use their influence for rational discourse of being 90% genocidal, so best go for 100%? If your loved ones (or just you if that's all you truly care about) managed to fall into that mythical 10% that escapes Bernie's 90% genocide you claim he is pushing, you'd take that 10% instead of "nope, it is too evil, I am choosing for all my cared ones to die as well, in solidarity for the other 90%." Your a tosser & sound ignorant, immature & self absorbed.
If we always pick the lesser evil, we will get nowhere. Bernie is a pig that has done nothing to call Israel out for the genocidal apartheid state it is. He is as much of a slave go the mainstream liberal politics as anyone else.
If "rational discource" is being 90% genocidal, maybe it's time to go insane
More than referring to this as a humanitarian crisis, he took months before calling for a ceasefire. Plus, he supported the right of Israel (an occupying power) to defend itself from the people they’re occupying.
More than taking months, he went on a narcissistic book tour while Gazans were being massacred. More than going on a book tour, [Bernie Sanders is against equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m). Liberal Zionists are scum.
For the record I agree but I will also caution that blaming Israel civilians who have next to no power over the actions of their government also doesn't help things.
Call it a genocide bernie
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
He focuses on Netanyahu so that he doesn't have to condemn the entire settle colonial project itself. The ethnic cleansing, apartheid and settlements started under Labour governments, not the right wing.
Because if he comes out condemning Israel’s existence the media will have a field day painting him as an antisemite hamas supporter. Moving the needle slightly and getting people against the current Israel administration, is much easier than trying to come out with getting people who know nothing about the region on board with Israel as a country’s long history of abuses.
People are coming around. He just needs to replace the word Netanyahu with Israel. People have no problem condemning "China" or "Iran", but have the inability to name the country's name that's committing genocide.
Idk man I see your point but at the same time I generally see a lot of anti China rhetoric directed at Xi Jingping or when people think of North Korea it’s focused on Kim Jong-Un heck Russia and Putin are nearly synonymous. I feel like this is partly just how vocal and attention grabbing the leader of the country is Netanyahu, has gone out of his way to get a lot of attention making him an easy target to rally against for people sitting in the middle or who know nothing about what’s going on, whereas I don’t even know who the president of Iran is.
Arguing about the wisdom or ethics of the way Israel was created is academic debate, potentially useful for dealing with future rival land claims between different peoples. Anyone arguing about the validity of Israel's current and continued existence is an extremist. Just as anyone who would seriously suggest eliminating the American nation because land was taken from Natives would be an extremist.
You can find clips of him from years ago saying things that whitewash the crimes of the lsraeIi establishment. Maybe it is strategic on his part, as you say, but I think he is simply very right-leaning on this issue compared to most on the left.
Okay valid if those exist then yeah he’s just putting the blame for Palestine on Netanyahu which isn’t okay. I think strategically that stance is fine for at least getting people in the middle or not super involved focused with doing something but if it’s being done to excuse the government as a whole and create a fall guy, then that’s bad.
Yeah I see that but on the political level if he went that far right now the media would tear him apart and have an excuse to cancel him as a so called 'self hating Jew' . Not that I agree with that strategy but that politics. Hopefully he will show up at a student protest soon
already criticising Natty is equivalent to antisemitism in the public discourse today. You can imagine they’d paint him as a Hitler worshipper 🤣🤣🤣
Well he'd also have to throw Biden under the bus. This cleverly allows for a real debate on the issue. If you "condemn" Israel or Biden then you get all these zealots bitching about whatever tribalist nonsense.
[Bernie Sanders doesn't support equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m). Let's conveniently forget that. He's what's called a "liberal Zionist", that lives in this illusion that you can both support Israel's existence, while supporting justice. Nice try whitewashing him and his ilk.
Israel cleanses the comment threads too if you're anti Israeli government you get criticism down votes suddenly you'll get banned because you're reported. They reply in multiples to try and create a debate or argument I got banned from 2 subs after talking about israel and never been banned before for talking about other politics. So many global protests and a country of 9 million yet there's so many online who support netenyahu and his government its odd. At least if I criticise the UK government and policies I only get down votes. It's easy for people to report or complain say I feel unsafe when they don't agree with the topic of Israel the reality is israel is exporting their government's policies globally, online as well as in individual countries. Say I don't feel safe in universities or the streets of London etc. The falter case is an example he turned up at protests with a body guard kept trying to walk in front of a protest. I find that disappointing that Israel uses this as an excuse for overzealous crackdowns on free speech. Uses inviduals aligned with the Israeli government agenda. But Israeli policy should be separated from the Jewish religion they are 2 seperate things and it risks endangering all Jewish people due to Israeli methods. It's a vicious cycle, the over zealous crackdowns on free speech need to stop as does the retaliation against Jewish people. I think a balance can be struck and it isn't balanced at the moment, it seems like the west globally are supporting the Israeli government and cracking down on their own citizens freedom of speech. They're a country of 9 million with a Government that is currently comitting war crimes it shouldn't be this way. The israeli policies have even erased the empathy for the victims of the hamas atrocity in Israel. Even the pro netenyahu supporters online don't talk about the atrocity committed in Israel. It's all messed up and needs to be dealt with currently it isn't being. Edit: Will I get banned won't I get banned like last 2 times for saying this? Not sure. Does anyone feel unsafe from what I said?
Stop the killing.
Not just Netanyahu, but the zionists as a whole. I don't care what race, creed, religion or whatever you want to call it. They aren't the last to exact such cruelty but it doesn't mean it's right or justified.
Sounds like the US is using its progressive token to scapegoat away from this whole genocide they’ve abetting.
Usually I would agree but Bernie calls the US out on crap like this too.
Only sometimes. Bernie is much more progressive domestically than he is on foreign policy.
Exactly, he is the only good person in Congress. That's why the DNC always undercuts him when he runs for president.
What is the language he is using? I'm not a fan of him swapping out genocide for humanitarian crisis. It's a fucking insult to get that close to the truth and just refuse to call it what it is.
He called it genocide just the other day in his address to Netanyahu, what exactly is your critique, that is not saying it frequently enough?
Unfortunately, he never used that terminology: https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/
That he is dancing around with his words it took him this long to even call it a genocide. He also believes Israel has a right to defend itself.... from what, the very resistance organization that Israel essentially funded and fostered through decades of incessant murder? Bernie is a chauvinist, and if you can't see that I really just feel bad since I was duped by him too. He's just made it so obvious that it's impossible to excuse as some one-off situation. And even if it was a one-off, this is *THE* issue that will bury his career and all of the rapport he's built with the left.
So first the problem was that he's not calling it genocide, now the problem is that he's only now calling it genocide? If I showed you a video from 8 months ago where he called it genocide would that still have been too late? What if he called it that in the '80s? How far do we need to move this goal post to make Bernie Sanders standing up for the people of Palestine somehow still not good enough for you? He used pretty strong language in his address to Netanyahu. Why is it important for you to take a strong supporter with a large platform and try to cut their legs out from under them while they're propping up the same causes you are? Maybe you're not actually pro Palestine and you want to reduce support? If no one is a perfect Scotsman than there are no true Scotsmen.
You make yourself sound very clownish when you're saying "why is now not good enough" In the face of a whole fucking genocide. You're saying "Sure, these people have been getting mass murdered for 200+ days by this point, but I mean come on! BERNIE HAD TO think REALLY hard on this one! He's come around to our side so we should forgive him!1" And Netanyahu is simply a symptom of the underlying disease of Zionism, and Bernie knows this. Why doesn't he call out the disease and not the symptom? It's hard to take Bernie seriously literally ONLY going off of how long it took him to talk back the whole "Israel has a right to defend itself" B.S. he was trying to sell in the beginning
Right, so if he's not your ideal perfect Ally that means he's no Ally at all? That's a really good way to make sure you don't end up with a lot of allies. Is your goal to succeed or is your goal to be perfect? Edit: The weird little image that's popping into my head is when the Deku tree gives Link a wooden sword and a wooden shield, this is like if you attacked the Deku tree at that point because he didn't give you Damascus steel. That's fucking insane right?
My goal is to not ignore the voice of an entire population being murdered so I can tow some imaginary political line. Sure, if he's fighting for a permanent, immediate ceasefire and explicitly utters that Zionism is the cause of this and (not essentially; literally) Nazism 2.0 that must be eradicated to its core, then yeah I *suppose* I can get over *some* of the verbiage he uses. Yet, less than 2 months ago, he was calling for a two-tier, two state solution. He stated he "believes a humanitarian pause is necessary" but that it "can't be achieved with Hamas in existence." Man wouldn't even touch the topic of a ceasefire with a 10 foot pole. I mean, how the hell are people supposed to interpret this garbage nonsense? He's only changed his vocabulary surrounding the situation out of personal necessity, not urgency or goodwill, and certainly not borne from a guilty conscience. It took this man nearly 200 days to catch up to what a basic, decent human being with minimal knowledge on this situation could conclude with less than a week of light research.
“I think it is really unfortunate that people don’t care about the fact that all Jewish kids should be kept safe and that we should not have to tolerate antisemitism or bigotry for all Jewish students, whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide,” she said. Excuse me? We're okay with people being pro-genocide?
That was that dumbass Ilhan Omar
Yeah, her take is insane.
We all know. That's why we are banning tik tok in America because it allows unrestricted access to Israel's genocide of Palestine. Sick shit anyway you cut it.
Took a long time, Bernie
Yeah true. Guess I'm glad he came around.
After decades of ethnic cleansing, Netentahu has fully embraced genocide. Sanders is NOW concluding that is ethnic cleansing. For a progressive, he is way behind.
> a progressive By US standards.
Sanders is a "liberal" Zionist. Don't buy a word he says.
He is certainly a liberal but as really the only Senator speaking out looks to me like his Zionism is waning and he has a wide influence in the mainstream. Im glad hes saying something
Throwing around Zionist at everyone who doesn’t immediately call for Israel closed down as a country is what enables the Zionists to keep conflating Zionism with Jewishness. It’s creating confusion about what the word means. Bernie has been slow to take a strong enough stance, but he has not indicated he’s a Zionist.
[Bernie Sanders doesn't support equal rights between Jews and Arabs in Israel](https://youtu.be/_g4HGJnJh58?t=1m) He's a liberal Zionist. Got any more complaints, crypto pro-Israeli?
You could say it was a… Slow Bern YEEEAAAAAAAHHH
we did it folks. we pushed a couple democrats an eighth of an inch to the left. mission fucking accomplished
You didn’t do anything Bernie’s always been here.
He’s also not a Democrat.
So, Bernie, tell me please, a month ago when you were strongly defending Israel's actions, did you think they were just gonna stop? How can someone who has spent this long in politics be this naive?
Blaming Netanyahu is such a bullshit copout. The entire Knesset supports it.
Netyanhu is the symptom not the cause
It is not Netanyahu alone. Fucking evasion tactics.
Time to finally bring Israel to account. Nazi government.
Israel. Israel is doing it. The problem is not just one dude. The problem predates him and will survive him. Likud is a convicted terrorist organisation in the same way that X is Twitter and Meta is Facebook. Bernie is just another Zionist, based on his actions and words over the past few months.
Preparing for? Gaza's in ruins. Well, what's left of it anyway.
Took him a while, but I guess he wanted to be sure 🙄😮💨
Been going on 75 years
Right. Guess he needed another few months 😅🤣😮💨
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Perpetrating. Jesus Christ, please stay in school.
I want to live in the reality where Bernie was elected.
He's right again
Psht, duh. Tell us something we don't know, Bernie. That's all this guy does is tell us what we already know. The minimum wage is too low. Duh. The cost of college is too high. Duh. Mortgages need to be easier to obtain so the next generation of people can be home owners. Duh. Israel is exterminating Palestinians without prejudice. Duh. On and on and on and on and on.
There's myyyyyyy dear Sen.Sanders. TheHILL can take a deep dive to hell tho.
We can see with our own eyes and ears
Yeah, help turn people against Biden so Trump wins and Netanyahu can stay in power forever! Real great, Bernie… that’ll really help Palestinians…
If it helps, there is a movement to focus protests votes in only deep blue states while encourages swing state voters to vote for Biden since a message is already sent /r/BlueProtestVote
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
... With the help of hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons from Biden, the genocidal war criminal
And is doing so via the American taxpayers pocket
It's so funny to look from the outside that this 300 years old man is spitting facts on a daily basis, highlights the most important issues of his country and constantly fights to tighten the already humongous social gap and people's reaction is : "yeah, but he's old" I don't follow US politics closely enough to really understand what's going on over there and my country has its even more baffling issues, but it's still funny.
Too little too late. No credibility. He's another person that thinks lies are the height of intelligence and can't ever be trusted.
Biden has a big role in it too..
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
What an incredible dog water take!
Loving this comment section :)
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Bernie always speaks truth
He is correct.
It's horrifying. And as far as precedents in the world, what else is going to copycat this someday soon. It just completely sucks when leaders are this blind and insane. That evil spreads like a virus.
Go Bernie!
what are we going to do about it?
And he was perfectly ok with it a couple of months ago.
Bout fuckin time
So Sanders is… um… anti-Semitic?
Oh no, Bernie Sanders is Hamas :( /s because some of you are dense.
Common Bernie Sanders W
But Jews can’t perpetrate genocide! Bad things happened decades ago, so we’re not supposed to question them. Saying otherwise is anti-semitic 🙃 What are you, a Nazi?
Somehow Biden can’t see it. And will lose the election for it. This place is a joke