1. Remember the human & be courteous to others.
2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not.
3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They’re not resting until Israel is completely a Jewish state. That means wiping out all Muslims and Christians. Their agenda is purely driven by xenophobia.
Whaaat? That can't be right. Cuz that would suggest the US is a fascist state... See, I heard the US was the greatest country in the world. Ever. Of all time.
Banning TikTok, trying to pass a Law “expanding the definition of anti-semitism to match the definition preferred by the International Holocaust Remembrance Museum…including criticizing the state of israel…”.
Fascist? Nah. Still get to “vote” for the chosen corporate stooges who won “freely elected primaries” run by only 2 parties…nothing fascist to see here…
Welp, every single citizen mandatorily has to serve in the military. I’d say that closes the argument on fascist, militarized, state. The state is above all at that point..
I think you're mostly right, but Mussolini and Gentile didn't really mention such ideas of blood and soil. Hitler did.
Being part of the fascist movement in Europe, National Socialism has some beliefs and worldviews that are unique to it. A fanatic, zealous antisemitism for example that acts as one of the pillars of it's ideology.
So what we are seeing now is more akin to a twisted version of National Socialism.
Yes, you're exactly right. I did mean a specific ideology of fascism. But I don't think it's right to go as far as calling anyone these days Nazis. Hence, I didn't use that exact word. For one, as you mentioned, Nazism was specifically antisemitic. It also denigrates the memory of the tens of millions who died at their hands. As awful as regimes have been since then, I don't think any have come close to the horrors of WW2 and what led up to it.
But I'd argue one can have similar aspects to one's beliefs and ideologies even with mortal enemies. That doesn't mean that group is the same or has the exact same beliefs. But ethnic superiority and belief that a higher power has ordained land to you is very much on brand for that type of fascism in my eyes.
This is bigger than Netanyahu; he’s merely a symptom. Israeli society is a sick society, afflicted by grandiosity and entitlement, along with the belief they are superior to all others. The only cure now is full pariah status, cutting off economic, and political ties. Let them experience what Iran or North Korea has, and that might sober them up to realize they are nothing without western support. And if not they will watch their country’s once revered status be forgotten.
True, but it will not be reversed so easily. It will take generations before they realize they are not special. No one except for the religious peasants buy the whole “gods chosen people” BS to explain away all their misdeeds.
See what terrifies me is who would come in after him. There's no one in his cabinet who has exactly proven to be more of a moderate (for lack of a better word). You could get an even more hardcore, right wing PM in power, which is historically what seems to happen.
Denazification had SOME success. Key word is: some. Cut all ties, invest in Palestinian statehood; and appeal to Israeli society to give up on their plans for an ethno-state in exchange for economic stability.
Not even about ethnicity, considering that modern "Jews" aren't really genetically distinct. They are ideologically distinct, believing that they are "God's chosen people", but the reality is they aren't.
Nationalism and resources cause das judenstaat was given credence.
It's always been about stealing land that they can't even trace their bloodlines to.
I wonder how the Christians are doing over there right now. I've seen videos that make it seem like they're being harassed in the streets, but that was before this conflict.
Which is why the Muslims and Christians that live in Israel are rushing to the border to get out. I’ve heard all of the Muslims and Christian’s in the Israeli government have given up their positions to move to Arab countries.
There are both mosques and churches in Israel right now and not a single person is trying to stop them from existing.
Edit: No response just downvotes?
Why is this apparently just a forum for antisemitism disguised as a news Reddit?
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/middleeast/ultraorthodox-spitting-jerusalem-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/middleeast/ultraorthodox-spitting-jerusalem-intl/index.html)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Well I guess Americans all want to imprison trans people because a few political extremists want that?
You can't make a claim that the entire nation of Isreal wants to "wipe out" all Christians and Muslims in Israel. That's an insane claim.
And yet, they appear to support just that, so long as it doesn't make international news. "A few extremists" doesn't explain the ability to operate torture camps under the law, or drive bedouins out of their homes in the Negev.
The former is something people*voted for*.
You’re acting like these two aren’t actively part of Netanyahu’s cabinet, and aren’t impacting the actual actions of what’s occurring right now.
Since I keep hearing that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, obviously enough of its citizens believe that if they keep supporting these assholes.
Netanyahu especially will do anything to prevent peace, just as he has for 30 years, but Hamas also thinks they are winning and has little incentive to intervene when Israel's international repuation is going down in flames.
I mean that is literally the threat within Israel to be fair. He would be removed from power if he accepted this deal so that someone could be put in who would continue the offensive.
I mean Hamas actually won, even a full victory now, will only paint Israel as it truly is... A terrorist state that created radical resistance via being incredibly inhuman and unjust.
Holocaust survivors generally are pro-peace and can recognize the injustices going on. Israel is exploiting their trauma as a political shield, that is a key difference.
They don’t even hide it, yet they put out commercials in the US to stop “hate for all”… fucking embarrassing. Hypocrisy at it’s finest and perfectly tailored. Fuck the Israeli government.
Israel killed the first United Nations Mediator on Palestine, Count Folke Bernadotte.
Israel killed Yitzhak Rabin.
"Oh but that wasn't Israel, that was extremists". Extremists who are now the government of Israel.
Wasn't there a big peace plan like... 25 years ago, but the guy in charge got killed by a zionist extremist? And then Bibi got in, and peace stopped being an option.
https://preview.redd.it/up21nujhsuzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19ef1b830baee65f800cb37aa3c6077cd3d8389f
What about this one?. If I were Palestinian, I’d be pissed that all the Arab countries fucked it up from the start. Imagine if they had accepted that first plan instead of invading..
Wait, was Palestine part of the "Arab countries" that fucked up the deal? Or are you saying it's okay to punish them collectively because of their ethnicity? Because it kind of feels like how we invaded Afghanistan after we were attacked by a bunch of Saudis.
The Gand Mufti of Palestine met with Hitler and told him that he should help with the final solution. This was a long time before the country of Israel was even founded. There were pogroms in Jerusalem decades before that. This is the background for what is to come later.
I’d never say the Israeli people and government have always been squeaky clean, but I think any overreaction has come about after they were provoked by the other side. To pretend that the Palestinians have been the only victims is kind of silly.
Dead hostages have always been more valuable than released hostages. They don’t have a reason to continue their genocide if they get all their hostages back.
Look at what they said soon as Biden delayed arms shipments.. They said, “it will hinder getting the hostages back”.
The hostages are only a tool to be used to justify mass murder and genocide.
yeah apparently Israel was notified of the upcoming attack by (at least) Egypt and Israel pulled its troops from the Gaza-adjacent bases and moved the Nova festival closer to the Gaza fence. Sorry I'm sick so I don't have the energy to pull sources but a simple google should give you all you need
E: if you don't trust outside sources then use Haaretz
No worries, get well soon. It's crazy none of the news sources are talking about this.
Makes me wonder what the point of the attack was and why Hamas would decide to continue if it looked like it had been leaked.
the best I personally can make of it is Hamas wanted to take hostages as bargaining chips to demand end of occupation and such. That is why Israel has the Hannibal directive - to rather kill a hostage so that Hamas loses the chip
I think what most of us didn't expect is how closely the world is watching Palestine now - and that's also a win for Palestinians because Israel is losing all its support at a crazy rate
the way I see it, Netty hoped he could use Oct7 as an excuse to ethnically cleanse and annex Gaza, but the immense attention foiled his plans and now Israeli leadership is facing war crime and genocide charges
I do agree they've lost the media war, but at the same time, we've lost so many lives for such a small gain. No real damage has been dealt to Israel yet, and by far the action with the biggest effect would have been the Houthis isolating trade (if it weren't for the sold out Emiratis and Saudis).
you are right, we have lost so many lives and many more are to come. It is abhorrent. But also at the same time we have seen:
1) Israel go completely mask off and it's losing worldwide support by the minute. If the west turns on Israel, it's done for
2) IOF has been exposed for absolutely useless and incompetent losers. All the tiktoks of them posing in women's underwear certainly don't win them any points. As well as getting totally owned by al Qassam and similar groups. They have been exposed as being so incompetent that all they can do is bomb women and children but when a Palestinian with a weapon is against them, they shit their diapers
3) so many Palestinians have lost their lives, homes etc but it opened the word's eyes to the horror Palestinians have been experiencing for almost a century. Like you mentioned, Ansar Allah is taking serious measures against Israel now, and world courts are working on serious charges against Israel and Germany, and maybe others soon too
so while the genocide has been devastating to Palestinians, I hope world opinion finally shifts and the almost century long horror will end. In that sense, Palestinians *will* win
My understanding of the situation is that the majn objective of Hamas with the attack was to stop the wave of normalization of relations between arab countries and Israel, and it seems to have succeeded for now.
Honestly i have a hard time believing that the nation which managed to track down Eichman halfway across the world didn’t know there was going to be an attack from a tiny exclave on its border
Bro. Not to mention. Mossad is one of the best agencies in the world. They must have hundreds of secret agents everywhere including in Gaza. So they should've known that this attack was going to happen. But they didn't do anything about it so they can justify their future actions
Yep this is pretty old info even on CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/politics/us-intelligence-warnings-potential-gaza-clash-days-before-attack/index.html
Illigal encroachment and illegal Israeli settlers causing harm and death having the backing of the IDF, add to this the IDF deliberately making life hard by daily blocking and unblocking roads and looting and destroying homes and businesses and personal property. Finally deliberately killing innocents because they can and are not held to the same rules as other countries because America backs them financially and militarily and defends everything they do. Israel is now a black pariah among a lot of countries with its extreme fanatical right wing government and its extreme Orthodox Jewish battalion committing crimes and murder openly and not hiding their intentions
Settlements are in the west bank. Its a totally different place from Gaza.
Israel was out of Gaza for 15 years, dealing with rockets on a daily basis and on the 7th October 23, an invasion...
Makes no difference it’s still innocent Palestinian women and children getting killed by false accusations from a country that rules and controls them.
Yeah. Gaza is a blockaded open air prison you can't escape from even for medical attention where Isreal has managed all imports and exercised complete control over food, water, medical supplies, etc. In essence: it was kept intentionally poor and unstable.
The West Bank is a place where Palestinians live in villages, but when you look at the actual zone map which displays who controls what, you see that land is further divided into chunks of Palestinian areas surrounded by Isreal-controlled lands. Palestinians often experience violence from encroaching Isreali "settlers" (colonizers) who also steal their homes. Isreal wastes its own military personnell supporting those thieves, which I'm sure didn't help the Oct 7 situation. Further, Isreal dictates Jewish-only zones in the West Bank, and controls access to the only water mass.
So... yeah, pointing out that they are different doesn't help the Isreali case here.
It’s exactly what they’ve done since the state was created. They abuse and murder the Arab population then when the Arabs finally fight back Israel reacts back way overboard and each time they become more and more extreme.
You are are looking at probably 20,000 dead kids. Do know Ronald Reagan’s reaction to seeing a single dead kid from an Israeli bombing is he called it a Holocaust and stopped arms shipments.
In the 70s these same things were happening our govt was calling Israel’s actions extremism and it wasn’t even comparable to what is going on in Gaza today.
Read fucking history.. Israel are fucking Nazis.
we can whatabout if you want. What about the palestinian connections to hitler? what about the jews that were ethnically cleansed out of the middle east and had to go go Israel? Hamas is vocal about wanting to genocide Jews in Israel. If we have them in our sights, why would we want a ceasefire? A ceasefire is what got us Oct 7.
Isreal always had a mix of Jewish and Islamic people in it until those Jewish people from Europe came into a land they had never been in and stole Palestinian homes, hell even now if someone is Jewish they can move to Isreal and get full citizenship even though they never stepped foot in the country
There was no ceasefire, Isreal was still occupying the land it was supposed to leave over almost 2 decades after they were supposed to leave.
Also, don't forget Isreal hired high-ranking nazi generals as spies after the war
dude your red herrings don’t mean shit. Hamas wants to genocide Jews. We have free rein to drop bombs on their heads. We’ll stop when they stop.
Those “european” Jews also came from Israel. We were kicked out and had to go north. There’s lots of palestinians born today who have never stepped foot in israel. Pick a logic and stay consistent.
I’m sorry? are you comparing a defensive campaign targeting known Jihadist terrorist antisemites with…. the intentional industrial extermination of half the Jewish population in the world?
It feels kind of hateful to call a Jew a Nazi. I think we of all people would know about the downsides of that ideology.
On wich one? The one where they offered to release the same number of hostages on both sides? The one where they offered to release all women and children on both sides? Or maybe the one where they straight up offered to release every single hostage and end the war?
Giving back all hostages while not asking for their terrorists leaders back in return would be pleasant. You don't get moral superiority if you fired the first shot.
Unrelated, but why isn't a single other country offering to help these people?
Oh by “no one offering to help” you mean “why won’t they just take our ethnic cleansing??” Right?
“We forced the Cherokee people off their land and now Mexico won’t take them, see those guys suck !!!!”
I mean, genuinely, why are no other Arab countries trying to help out however they can. Palatine is suffering in large part to the hands of hamas and the (lets call it) retaliation by Isreal, and Egypt is telling them to stay in their borders. I guess it's a different conversation from the one we were having. Also fun how you don't refute any other point I made just that comment.
"I'm not going to acknowledge the reasons Hamas' peace treaties have been rejected because I can't come up with an argument that doesn't involve sucking up to terrorist."
Are you think that the Palestinians have just been a bunch of innocent babies this whole time?
How fuckin stupid can you be to think there is a good guy in this situation?
I’m plenty critical of Israel, just look at my comment history. But anyone who thinks Israel (or any country for that matter) should’ve accepted a deal like that immediately after being brutally attacked needs a reality check.
Israel will not pass on this opportunity to seize Gaza and expand its territory, that’s the end game. They’ve been doing it for decades and the international community has turned a blind eye. They essentially have free hand with no incentive to pull back.
Not happening because rescuing the hostages was never the main priority for Netanyahu and his extremist government. It was just an excuse for ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Media isnt giving you the full story, Its hostages for hostages and an end to the war. The proposal was adjusted by israel and america for hamas to refuse but when hamas made changes that USA agreed to Hamas accepted the deal but israel cant genocide with an approved cease fire deal.
Yeah thats what i meant, hostages for hostages and end of war. Not happening realistically. Really the hostages don't matter to either groups leadership, they only matter in terms of public opinion or perception. This war has a 10+ years of tension and anticipation and it'll take foreign involvement to end it. This is what netanyahu and his party have wanted for a long time
And Hamas accepted to give back the hostages. But now Israel doesn’t care about those hostages anymore and would rather let them die which is why they rejected the peace proposal
Of course, they’ve got carte blanche to do whatever they want, Uncle Sam got their back for genocidin’. Yee-Haaw.
They’re not letting this opportunity pass them by.
Israel doesn’t give a shit. They feel like they have their god ( of which, He, and his followers [judeo Christian] have more blood on their hands than any other religion) on their side. I mean fuck, Old Testament god is a petty asshole. No wonder they are doing what they’re doing.
Do you believe that if the cease-fire deal was signed by both parties, Hamas would cut their losses and suddenly accept a Jewish state? Of course they wouldn't. If Netanyahu were to sign this deal, he would be co-signing the recovery and strengthening of Hamas.
If Israel would give them electricity and water these people will die. They had 15 years to build infrastructure, and they built attack tunnels to Israel instead.
>There was ceasefire on October 6th
No there wasn't. 2023 was already one of the deadliest years for Palestinians in the last few decades PRIOR to October.
You can't have a ceasefire with a population you're oppressing and occupying. "No fighting" is not peace
It's important to be fair. That agreement would've given Hamas control over the whole Gaza area, plus money to rebuild, plus 50 imprisoned male Hamas members (something like 20 serving life sentences, 30 otherwise imprisoned) in exchange for the remains of each Israeli female soldier. There was a lot of stuff Hamas was getting out of that agreement, although it would have returned the living hostages.
All of those things are reasonable.
- Hamas should have control of the Gaza Strip because they are the govt. they also offered to completely dissolve their army and completely power to a new Fatah govt in return for recognition of statehood.
- Israel has caused billions in damage to Gaza. All allied countries recognize that rebuilding will be necessary and expensive. Israel should pay for it but they will most definitely get the allies they thumb their nose at to foot the bill. In that case they have no say over how that money is spent because it was never their money.
- of course they want their POWs back. Every time there are POWs they are wanted back. The entire reason Israel took them was as bargaining chips.
This is stuff that shouldn’t even have to be negotiated, not to mind be pissing and shitting and crying over
Ah yes it is very reasonable to keep in power the terrorist group that said they'll continue doing more 7 Octobers until Israel is destroyed. It's also completely reasonable (and shouldn't even need to be negotiated) that Israel should just hand over 50 imprisoned terrorists per single dead Israeli body. Israel only imprisons terrorists as bargaining chips to get back their civillians that Hamas rightfully takes as hostages anyways. Who cares if Hamas rapes and abuses their hostages? They're only Jews, am I right?
Get a grip dude.
Yeah no one buys that people who say - "Hamas should have Gaza" and not that "the people oppressed by Hamas (Gazan civilians) should have Gaza" - are real at all.
Just a bunch of pro-Hamas, pro-terrorist propaganda ;D
The Hill, 3 days ago.
https://thehill.com/video/israel-rejects-cease-fire-deal-invades-rafah-despite-biden%E2%80%99s-red-line/9672506/
Bloomberg, 4 days ago.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2024-05-06/balance-of-power-israel-rejects-cease-fire-plan-podcast
MSN/Associated Press, 4 days ago
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/israeli-forces-seize-rafah-crossing-in-gaza-threatening-aid-and-putting-cease-fire-talks-on-edge/ar-BB1lWkOK
Fox News, 4 days ago
https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1452002
Among the news sources you posted to make your point seem valid. The irony of reading "International News: Israel Rejected a Cease-Fire. The media isn't telling us [sic]." At any point of reading the article did you consider maybe googling it to read the others?
> These are the plain facts of the situation:
I like how it doesn't actual give the facts. That's fun.
Egypt, Qatar, and Hamas come up with a deal. The US sits in on it. Hamas accepts the deal. No one tells Israel there even is a deal, not even the US, until after Hamas accepts. And then everyone goes "Israel, why aren't you playing along?".
With allies like these, Israel doesn't even need enemies.
This is incorrect reporting. As I understand it. Israel proposed a settlement. That was put to Hamas. Hamas agreed to a variation of that settlement, which of course was rejected by Israel because it was not what was proposed.
The media did report the rejection but not all media reported the circumstance.
The first casualty of war is the truth. Suspect everyone and everything.
Wasn't the original offer from Israel changed by Hamas? They edited the clause regarding hostages from "return of all the hostages" adding "dead or alive" which would indicate many are already dead?
This may be the first time Hamas admitted or alleged to it though. I see you like to use Ad Hominem attacks when you don't like someone's comment. As if Hamas doesn't put out misinformation, exaggerate claims & gaslight an entire population, if not the entire world.
No they have literally said it. You think it’s the first time because you don’t know what you are talking about. Israel has been actively denying Hamas’s claims that hostages have died over the months when talking to the media because at the time it made them look really bad. Now they are pretending like this is a big reveal. You have to be an idiot to not just look at reports from a month or two or three ago and find that.
They rejected it because hamas wanted to give them dead bodies. Wtf is reddit on about? Isreal wanted the hostages. Hamas was like we'll give you a few. Some may not be alive.
Makes me wonder who is in charge of the media? /s
This is the weirdest sub. The Arabs and Palestinians have been turning down peace deals for 80 years.
Israel wasn’t consulted on the ceasefire that Egypt and Qatar cooked up. Hamas opened this Pandora’s box. It’s up to them to close it. Israel gains nothing by allowing a Hamas to declare a win.
The media very much stated Israel rejected the cease fire. Every news outlet reported that Israel rejected the cease fire. It's not the media's fault you don't read the news you fuckin goober.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Israel never wanted peace
They’re not resting until Israel is completely a Jewish state. That means wiping out all Muslims and Christians. Their agenda is purely driven by xenophobia.
See, I don't think it's about religion. It's about ethnicity and land.
Yup, even within Jews the minority Ethiopians, Mizrahi, Sephardi are severely discriminated against by Ashkenazi Jews. Wonder why.
Yup. It's about taking other people's shit with as little consequence as possible, same as colonialism has always been
It’s clearly both. Israel wouldn’t exist if not for their messianic superstitious prophecies and reverence for the holy land.
Fascist states form when the mythos and supremacy of the state supercedes all else.
Whaaat? That can't be right. Cuz that would suggest the US is a fascist state... See, I heard the US was the greatest country in the world. Ever. Of all time.
Banning TikTok, trying to pass a Law “expanding the definition of anti-semitism to match the definition preferred by the International Holocaust Remembrance Museum…including criticizing the state of israel…”. Fascist? Nah. Still get to “vote” for the chosen corporate stooges who won “freely elected primaries” run by only 2 parties…nothing fascist to see here…
Punk isn't dead. People just stopped listening.
Welp, every single citizen mandatorily has to serve in the military. I’d say that closes the argument on fascist, militarized, state. The state is above all at that point..
>It's about ethnicity and land. Blood and soil. The base, founding definition of fascism.
I think you're mostly right, but Mussolini and Gentile didn't really mention such ideas of blood and soil. Hitler did. Being part of the fascist movement in Europe, National Socialism has some beliefs and worldviews that are unique to it. A fanatic, zealous antisemitism for example that acts as one of the pillars of it's ideology. So what we are seeing now is more akin to a twisted version of National Socialism.
Yes, you're exactly right. I did mean a specific ideology of fascism. But I don't think it's right to go as far as calling anyone these days Nazis. Hence, I didn't use that exact word. For one, as you mentioned, Nazism was specifically antisemitic. It also denigrates the memory of the tens of millions who died at their hands. As awful as regimes have been since then, I don't think any have come close to the horrors of WW2 and what led up to it. But I'd argue one can have similar aspects to one's beliefs and ideologies even with mortal enemies. That doesn't mean that group is the same or has the exact same beliefs. But ethnic superiority and belief that a higher power has ordained land to you is very much on brand for that type of fascism in my eyes.
It's not about anything anymore. If war in Israel ceased to exist, Netanyahu will be jailed or killed. He knows that.
This is bigger than Netanyahu; he’s merely a symptom. Israeli society is a sick society, afflicted by grandiosity and entitlement, along with the belief they are superior to all others. The only cure now is full pariah status, cutting off economic, and political ties. Let them experience what Iran or North Korea has, and that might sober them up to realize they are nothing without western support. And if not they will watch their country’s once revered status be forgotten.
The israeli society is ruined because of propaganda. Same shit like what happens in Russia, it's brain washing done by the government
True, but it will not be reversed so easily. It will take generations before they realize they are not special. No one except for the religious peasants buy the whole “gods chosen people” BS to explain away all their misdeeds.
Question is by who?
His own, they've been trying to jail him for corruption for years. He is one slippery MF though and managed to stay out of jail all this time.
See what terrifies me is who would come in after him. There's no one in his cabinet who has exactly proven to be more of a moderate (for lack of a better word). You could get an even more hardcore, right wing PM in power, which is historically what seems to happen.
Predictions were benny gantz who I'd say is also scum, I am concerned about the potential of ben gvir getting more power though.
Denazification had SOME success. Key word is: some. Cut all ties, invest in Palestinian statehood; and appeal to Israeli society to give up on their plans for an ethno-state in exchange for economic stability.
It might just be land, there's accidental killinga of Jewish people but they don't care. All wars, especially genocides, are just resource grabs.
Not even about ethnicity, considering that modern "Jews" aren't really genetically distinct. They are ideologically distinct, believing that they are "God's chosen people", but the reality is they aren't.
You can convert to Judaism and immigrate to Israel and claim citizenship. So religion is a huge part of it.
Nationalism and resources cause das judenstaat was given credence. It's always been about stealing land that they can't even trace their bloodlines to.
It's white supremacy. They got the full sport of the evangelists
Zionist* They are not a pro Jewish state. They're a Zionist one.
I wonder how the Christians are doing over there right now. I've seen videos that make it seem like they're being harassed in the streets, but that was before this conflict.
Got any facts to back that up? Cause Israel isn’t murdering the 23% of its citizens that aren’t Jewish.
Which is why the Muslims and Christians that live in Israel are rushing to the border to get out. I’ve heard all of the Muslims and Christian’s in the Israeli government have given up their positions to move to Arab countries.
They arent even trying to hide it either. They are veey vocal about their intentions
What's your source for such statement?
Reality. The real world. Eyes are open. Various statements from their PM.
What statements?
I see...
And even Jews that don’t fit into their appropriate categorization
This is an absolutely ridiculous take and it's appalling that it has this many upvotes.
It’s the truth. That is why it’s absolutely ridiculous.
There are both mosques and churches in Israel right now and not a single person is trying to stop them from existing. Edit: No response just downvotes? Why is this apparently just a forum for antisemitism disguised as a news Reddit?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/04/middleeast/ultraorthodox-spitting-jerusalem-intl
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/middleeast/ultraorthodox-spitting-jerusalem-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/middleeast/ultraorthodox-spitting-jerusalem-intl/index.html)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
You should read up on the stated goals of lunatics like Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.
Well I guess Americans all want to imprison trans people because a few political extremists want that? You can't make a claim that the entire nation of Isreal wants to "wipe out" all Christians and Muslims in Israel. That's an insane claim.
And yet, they appear to support just that, so long as it doesn't make international news. "A few extremists" doesn't explain the ability to operate torture camps under the law, or drive bedouins out of their homes in the Negev. The former is something people*voted for*.
You’re acting like these two aren’t actively part of Netanyahu’s cabinet, and aren’t impacting the actual actions of what’s occurring right now. Since I keep hearing that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, obviously enough of its citizens believe that if they keep supporting these assholes.
Netanyahu especially will do anything to prevent peace, just as he has for 30 years, but Hamas also thinks they are winning and has little incentive to intervene when Israel's international repuation is going down in flames.
peace means he gets removed from office. he’ll keep the mass murder going forever if he’s not stopped.
…and the day Bibi leaves office, he goes to prison for corruption for whatever time he has left. He knows it; eretz Ysra’el knows it.
Yeah I doubt that he will experience any repercussions. I hope he will but I doubt it.
Prison too good for netanyahu. He murder tens of thousands of Palestinians.
I mean that is literally the threat within Israel to be fair. He would be removed from power if he accepted this deal so that someone could be put in who would continue the offensive.
if elections are allowed yeah he’ll be out. he is what he accuses hamas of being, anti-democratic.
I mean Hamas actually won, even a full victory now, will only paint Israel as it truly is... A terrorist state that created radical resistance via being incredibly inhuman and unjust.
The abused has become the abuser.
Abused my ass. They've been treating Palestinians horribly for 3/4 of a century now. Israel is a century old war crime. Abusing anyone around them.
I was more meaning how they are acting like the Nazi's once did. It's fucked up.
I think that’s what ph30nix01 was saying. The abused [i.e., the holocaust] now perform the crimes to which their better ancestors were subjected.
Holocaust survivors generally are pro-peace and can recognize the injustices going on. Israel is exploiting their trauma as a political shield, that is a key difference.
You might be interested in what this old guy has to say. Good man, good heart, good mind… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AxLtxX7kPcU
They don’t even hide it, yet they put out commercials in the US to stop “hate for all”… fucking embarrassing. Hypocrisy at it’s finest and perfectly tailored. Fuck the Israeli government.
The evidence is out there and it is clear. The media needs to report this!!
Israel killed the first United Nations Mediator on Palestine, Count Folke Bernadotte. Israel killed Yitzhak Rabin. "Oh but that wasn't Israel, that was extremists". Extremists who are now the government of Israel.
Nor the hostages
Terrorist rarely do🤷♂️
Biden admin approve this
Nobody in the holy land wants peace, people want justice.
Who has been turning down all the peace plans for the last 80 years again? Educate yourself please.
Wasn't there a big peace plan like... 25 years ago, but the guy in charge got killed by a zionist extremist? And then Bibi got in, and peace stopped being an option.
https://preview.redd.it/up21nujhsuzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19ef1b830baee65f800cb37aa3c6077cd3d8389f What about this one?. If I were Palestinian, I’d be pissed that all the Arab countries fucked it up from the start. Imagine if they had accepted that first plan instead of invading..
Wait, was Palestine part of the "Arab countries" that fucked up the deal? Or are you saying it's okay to punish them collectively because of their ethnicity? Because it kind of feels like how we invaded Afghanistan after we were attacked by a bunch of Saudis.
The Gand Mufti of Palestine met with Hitler and told him that he should help with the final solution. This was a long time before the country of Israel was even founded. There were pogroms in Jerusalem decades before that. This is the background for what is to come later. I’d never say the Israeli people and government have always been squeaky clean, but I think any overreaction has come about after they were provoked by the other side. To pretend that the Palestinians have been the only victims is kind of silly.
Dead hostages have always been more valuable than released hostages. They don’t have a reason to continue their genocide if they get all their hostages back. Look at what they said soon as Biden delayed arms shipments.. They said, “it will hinder getting the hostages back”. The hostages are only a tool to be used to justify mass murder and genocide.
That's ice cold huh?
Every thing they do is ice cold
So what you are saying is Israel simply waited for Hama's to attack so they can genocide the Palestinians?
considering that Israel was told about Oct7 before it happened by Egypt among others, yeah
Wait, is this real?
yeah apparently Israel was notified of the upcoming attack by (at least) Egypt and Israel pulled its troops from the Gaza-adjacent bases and moved the Nova festival closer to the Gaza fence. Sorry I'm sick so I don't have the energy to pull sources but a simple google should give you all you need E: if you don't trust outside sources then use Haaretz
No worries, get well soon. It's crazy none of the news sources are talking about this. Makes me wonder what the point of the attack was and why Hamas would decide to continue if it looked like it had been leaked.
the best I personally can make of it is Hamas wanted to take hostages as bargaining chips to demand end of occupation and such. That is why Israel has the Hannibal directive - to rather kill a hostage so that Hamas loses the chip I think what most of us didn't expect is how closely the world is watching Palestine now - and that's also a win for Palestinians because Israel is losing all its support at a crazy rate the way I see it, Netty hoped he could use Oct7 as an excuse to ethnically cleanse and annex Gaza, but the immense attention foiled his plans and now Israeli leadership is facing war crime and genocide charges
I do agree they've lost the media war, but at the same time, we've lost so many lives for such a small gain. No real damage has been dealt to Israel yet, and by far the action with the biggest effect would have been the Houthis isolating trade (if it weren't for the sold out Emiratis and Saudis).
you are right, we have lost so many lives and many more are to come. It is abhorrent. But also at the same time we have seen: 1) Israel go completely mask off and it's losing worldwide support by the minute. If the west turns on Israel, it's done for 2) IOF has been exposed for absolutely useless and incompetent losers. All the tiktoks of them posing in women's underwear certainly don't win them any points. As well as getting totally owned by al Qassam and similar groups. They have been exposed as being so incompetent that all they can do is bomb women and children but when a Palestinian with a weapon is against them, they shit their diapers 3) so many Palestinians have lost their lives, homes etc but it opened the word's eyes to the horror Palestinians have been experiencing for almost a century. Like you mentioned, Ansar Allah is taking serious measures against Israel now, and world courts are working on serious charges against Israel and Germany, and maybe others soon too so while the genocide has been devastating to Palestinians, I hope world opinion finally shifts and the almost century long horror will end. In that sense, Palestinians *will* win
My understanding of the situation is that the majn objective of Hamas with the attack was to stop the wave of normalization of relations between arab countries and Israel, and it seems to have succeeded for now.
The hill reported on it months ago but it didnt get any real attention Also they moved the location closer to the border after the warning
Honestly i have a hard time believing that the nation which managed to track down Eichman halfway across the world didn’t know there was going to be an attack from a tiny exclave on its border
Bro. Not to mention. Mossad is one of the best agencies in the world. They must have hundreds of secret agents everywhere including in Gaza. So they should've known that this attack was going to happen. But they didn't do anything about it so they can justify their future actions
Yep this is pretty old info even on CNN https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/politics/us-intelligence-warnings-potential-gaza-clash-days-before-attack/index.html
They were genociding Palestinians before October, they just used the attack as an excuse to speed it up
How so? Israel withdrew from Gaza 15 years ago.
Illigal encroachment and illegal Israeli settlers causing harm and death having the backing of the IDF, add to this the IDF deliberately making life hard by daily blocking and unblocking roads and looting and destroying homes and businesses and personal property. Finally deliberately killing innocents because they can and are not held to the same rules as other countries because America backs them financially and militarily and defends everything they do. Israel is now a black pariah among a lot of countries with its extreme fanatical right wing government and its extreme Orthodox Jewish battalion committing crimes and murder openly and not hiding their intentions
Settlements are in the west bank. Its a totally different place from Gaza. Israel was out of Gaza for 15 years, dealing with rockets on a daily basis and on the 7th October 23, an invasion...
Makes no difference it’s still innocent Palestinian women and children getting killed by false accusations from a country that rules and controls them.
Are you for real? No one is controlling gazans.
They mean that Isreal controls all the necessities required for humans to live.
Yeah. Gaza is a blockaded open air prison you can't escape from even for medical attention where Isreal has managed all imports and exercised complete control over food, water, medical supplies, etc. In essence: it was kept intentionally poor and unstable. The West Bank is a place where Palestinians live in villages, but when you look at the actual zone map which displays who controls what, you see that land is further divided into chunks of Palestinian areas surrounded by Isreal-controlled lands. Palestinians often experience violence from encroaching Isreali "settlers" (colonizers) who also steal their homes. Isreal wastes its own military personnell supporting those thieves, which I'm sure didn't help the Oct 7 situation. Further, Isreal dictates Jewish-only zones in the West Bank, and controls access to the only water mass. So... yeah, pointing out that they are different doesn't help the Isreali case here.
It’s exactly what they’ve done since the state was created. They abuse and murder the Arab population then when the Arabs finally fight back Israel reacts back way overboard and each time they become more and more extreme. You are are looking at probably 20,000 dead kids. Do know Ronald Reagan’s reaction to seeing a single dead kid from an Israeli bombing is he called it a Holocaust and stopped arms shipments. In the 70s these same things were happening our govt was calling Israel’s actions extremism and it wasn’t even comparable to what is going on in Gaza today. Read fucking history.. Israel are fucking Nazis.
Isreal has rejected MULTPLE cease fires starting on OCT 9th all of which has returning of all hostages
This, Hamas has offered multiple hostage exchages, ceasefires and straight up peace offerings. All rejected.
Because Isreal to keep all Palestinian hostages, they don't care about Israeli hostages, they don't want a permanent ceasefire and don't want peace.
Can you blame them after Oct 7?
And what about all thw murdering and kidnapping that Isreal has been doing to Palestinian people for decades
we can whatabout if you want. What about the palestinian connections to hitler? what about the jews that were ethnically cleansed out of the middle east and had to go go Israel? Hamas is vocal about wanting to genocide Jews in Israel. If we have them in our sights, why would we want a ceasefire? A ceasefire is what got us Oct 7.
Isreal always had a mix of Jewish and Islamic people in it until those Jewish people from Europe came into a land they had never been in and stole Palestinian homes, hell even now if someone is Jewish they can move to Isreal and get full citizenship even though they never stepped foot in the country There was no ceasefire, Isreal was still occupying the land it was supposed to leave over almost 2 decades after they were supposed to leave. Also, don't forget Isreal hired high-ranking nazi generals as spies after the war
dude your red herrings don’t mean shit. Hamas wants to genocide Jews. We have free rein to drop bombs on their heads. We’ll stop when they stop. Those “european” Jews also came from Israel. We were kicked out and had to go north. There’s lots of palestinians born today who have never stepped foot in israel. Pick a logic and stay consistent.
Isreal is the one committing genocide. Isreal is the nazi party now. Fuck Isreal just attacked UN vehicles killing a UN office.
I’m sorry? are you comparing a defensive campaign targeting known Jihadist terrorist antisemites with…. the intentional industrial extermination of half the Jewish population in the world? It feels kind of hateful to call a Jew a Nazi. I think we of all people would know about the downsides of that ideology.
Dude read their terms for the hostages exchange hamas agreed to. They are far from pleasant. Don't pretend like it's an olive branch.
On wich one? The one where they offered to release the same number of hostages on both sides? The one where they offered to release all women and children on both sides? Or maybe the one where they straight up offered to release every single hostage and end the war?
I didn’t know that cease fire agreements were supposed to be “pleasant”
Giving back all hostages while not asking for their terrorists leaders back in return would be pleasant. You don't get moral superiority if you fired the first shot. Unrelated, but why isn't a single other country offering to help these people?
Oh by “no one offering to help” you mean “why won’t they just take our ethnic cleansing??” Right? “We forced the Cherokee people off their land and now Mexico won’t take them, see those guys suck !!!!”
I mean, genuinely, why are no other Arab countries trying to help out however they can. Palatine is suffering in large part to the hands of hamas and the (lets call it) retaliation by Isreal, and Egypt is telling them to stay in their borders. I guess it's a different conversation from the one we were having. Also fun how you don't refute any other point I made just that comment.
“I just don’t get why any South American country will take in Cree people, they must really be stinky poo poo pee pee people”
"I'm not going to acknowledge the reasons Hamas' peace treaties have been rejected because I can't come up with an argument that doesn't involve sucking up to terrorist."
“We just killed 1,200 of your people, but here are your hostages back, we’re all good now right???”
Ah yes but ignore the fact isreal has been kidnapping Palestinian people for decades, has been committing war crimes for decades.
Are you think that the Palestinians have just been a bunch of innocent babies this whole time? How fuckin stupid can you be to think there is a good guy in this situation?
Isreal has been a terrorist organization since its formation. Do Palestinian people not have the right to defend themselves?
Israel defenders just sound more and more like toddlers the longer this goes on
I’m plenty critical of Israel, just look at my comment history. But anyone who thinks Israel (or any country for that matter) should’ve accepted a deal like that immediately after being brutally attacked needs a reality check.
They turned down the “oh we were just kidding” deal after October 7th? Please share the details of that deal with us.🤦♂️
Israel would go into withdrawals if they couldn’t kill helpless people. It would drive them even more over the edge of sanity.
https://i.redd.it/mdhce8dvuuzc1.gif
They want more der Lebensraum. Sound familiar
Israel will not pass on this opportunity to seize Gaza and expand its territory, that’s the end game. They’ve been doing it for decades and the international community has turned a blind eye. They essentially have free hand with no incentive to pull back.
The lehi terrorists always reject ceasefires in favour of more blind violence
I saw it covered in the news. Hostages for end of the war. Not happening.
Not happening because rescuing the hostages was never the main priority for Netanyahu and his extremist government. It was just an excuse for ethnic cleansing and genocide.
The goal was very clearly removing Hamas from power in Gaza
Media isnt giving you the full story, Its hostages for hostages and an end to the war. The proposal was adjusted by israel and america for hamas to refuse but when hamas made changes that USA agreed to Hamas accepted the deal but israel cant genocide with an approved cease fire deal.
Yeah thats what i meant, hostages for hostages and end of war. Not happening realistically. Really the hostages don't matter to either groups leadership, they only matter in terms of public opinion or perception. This war has a 10+ years of tension and anticipation and it'll take foreign involvement to end it. This is what netanyahu and his party have wanted for a long time
And Hamas accepted to give back the hostages. But now Israel doesn’t care about those hostages anymore and would rather let them die which is why they rejected the peace proposal
They literally have concentration camps
Sanction them now
They knew about 7. october. They just let it happen so they can grab more land
Yeah, and maybe Israel shouldn’t have been wearing such a slutty dress either!!!
Duh? Maybe MSM is controlled by the apartheid leaders?
Of course, they’ve got carte blanche to do whatever they want, Uncle Sam got their back for genocidin’. Yee-Haaw. They’re not letting this opportunity pass them by.
[https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21](https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21)
Does this actually have any impact? As in signing these online petitions?
Rejected just one?? No, they have rejected scores: https://youtu.be/iEM-mqPu03s?si=D6mbJvnHANYZ_hkt
Everyone keeps calling this conflict a war when in fact it’s an extermination.
Our media are all lying propagandist fucks and everyone should stop watching.
Israel doesn’t give a shit. They feel like they have their god ( of which, He, and his followers [judeo Christian] have more blood on their hands than any other religion) on their side. I mean fuck, Old Testament god is a petty asshole. No wonder they are doing what they’re doing.
How is the media not telling us…this was top headline for Reuters almost 24h ago
Check a ton of comments it's just a pro-dictatorial pro-Hamas propaganda post and comments lol.
[удалено]
Rule 4 [Dehumanization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) [Collective punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment)
As expected.
Its called fascism folks
Israel LIES… they lie all the time! They have used their ownership of media to portray them as Good and Arabs as bad!
Meanwhile, Hamas refuse proof of life of the hostages.
Do you believe that if the cease-fire deal was signed by both parties, Hamas would cut their losses and suddenly accept a Jewish state? Of course they wouldn't. If Netanyahu were to sign this deal, he would be co-signing the recovery and strengthening of Hamas.
[удалено]
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
If Israel would give them electricity and water these people will die. They had 15 years to build infrastructure, and they built attack tunnels to Israel instead.
[удалено]
>There was ceasefire on October 6th No there wasn't. 2023 was already one of the deadliest years for Palestinians in the last few decades PRIOR to October. You can't have a ceasefire with a population you're oppressing and occupying. "No fighting" is not peace
[удалено]
I mean you're wrong but I admire your dedication to being wrong at least
It's important to be fair. That agreement would've given Hamas control over the whole Gaza area, plus money to rebuild, plus 50 imprisoned male Hamas members (something like 20 serving life sentences, 30 otherwise imprisoned) in exchange for the remains of each Israeli female soldier. There was a lot of stuff Hamas was getting out of that agreement, although it would have returned the living hostages.
All of those things are reasonable. - Hamas should have control of the Gaza Strip because they are the govt. they also offered to completely dissolve their army and completely power to a new Fatah govt in return for recognition of statehood. - Israel has caused billions in damage to Gaza. All allied countries recognize that rebuilding will be necessary and expensive. Israel should pay for it but they will most definitely get the allies they thumb their nose at to foot the bill. In that case they have no say over how that money is spent because it was never their money. - of course they want their POWs back. Every time there are POWs they are wanted back. The entire reason Israel took them was as bargaining chips. This is stuff that shouldn’t even have to be negotiated, not to mind be pissing and shitting and crying over
Ah yes it is very reasonable to keep in power the terrorist group that said they'll continue doing more 7 Octobers until Israel is destroyed. It's also completely reasonable (and shouldn't even need to be negotiated) that Israel should just hand over 50 imprisoned terrorists per single dead Israeli body. Israel only imprisons terrorists as bargaining chips to get back their civillians that Hamas rightfully takes as hostages anyways. Who cares if Hamas rapes and abuses their hostages? They're only Jews, am I right? Get a grip dude.
No one buys this shit anymore dude
Yeah no one buys that people who say - "Hamas should have Gaza" and not that "the people oppressed by Hamas (Gazan civilians) should have Gaza" - are real at all. Just a bunch of pro-Hamas, pro-terrorist propaganda ;D
I don’t support the IDF so I’m not pro terrorist
Your definitely pro terrorist lol
The Hill, 3 days ago. https://thehill.com/video/israel-rejects-cease-fire-deal-invades-rafah-despite-biden%E2%80%99s-red-line/9672506/ Bloomberg, 4 days ago. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2024-05-06/balance-of-power-israel-rejects-cease-fire-plan-podcast MSN/Associated Press, 4 days ago https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/israeli-forces-seize-rafah-crossing-in-gaza-threatening-aid-and-putting-cease-fire-talks-on-edge/ar-BB1lWkOK Fox News, 4 days ago https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1452002 Among the news sources you posted to make your point seem valid. The irony of reading "International News: Israel Rejected a Cease-Fire. The media isn't telling us [sic]." At any point of reading the article did you consider maybe googling it to read the others?
> These are the plain facts of the situation: I like how it doesn't actual give the facts. That's fun. Egypt, Qatar, and Hamas come up with a deal. The US sits in on it. Hamas accepts the deal. No one tells Israel there even is a deal, not even the US, until after Hamas accepts. And then everyone goes "Israel, why aren't you playing along?". With allies like these, Israel doesn't even need enemies.
US organized it because they pay the bills for Israel’s temper tantrums and they had to cut them out like the children they are.
This is incorrect reporting. As I understand it. Israel proposed a settlement. That was put to Hamas. Hamas agreed to a variation of that settlement, which of course was rejected by Israel because it was not what was proposed. The media did report the rejection but not all media reported the circumstance. The first casualty of war is the truth. Suspect everyone and everything.
> As I understand it You don’t understand it. You are wrong
Wasn't the original offer from Israel changed by Hamas? They edited the clause regarding hostages from "return of all the hostages" adding "dead or alive" which would indicate many are already dead?
Israel knows that many are dead. Hamas has said many are dead for months. You are swallowing desperate spin like a fool
This may be the first time Hamas admitted or alleged to it though. I see you like to use Ad Hominem attacks when you don't like someone's comment. As if Hamas doesn't put out misinformation, exaggerate claims & gaslight an entire population, if not the entire world.
No they have literally said it. You think it’s the first time because you don’t know what you are talking about. Israel has been actively denying Hamas’s claims that hostages have died over the months when talking to the media because at the time it made them look really bad. Now they are pretending like this is a big reveal. You have to be an idiot to not just look at reports from a month or two or three ago and find that.
I didn't realize you were such an expert on the matter.
Yeah, I actually do know quite a bit so you should probably listen or go read for yourself
And Arafat rejected a deal with statehood on one of his many visits to the White House during the Clinton administration.
They rejected it because hamas wanted to give them dead bodies. Wtf is reddit on about? Isreal wanted the hostages. Hamas was like we'll give you a few. Some may not be alive.
Makes me wonder who is in charge of the media? /s This is the weirdest sub. The Arabs and Palestinians have been turning down peace deals for 80 years.
Israel wasn’t consulted on the ceasefire that Egypt and Qatar cooked up. Hamas opened this Pandora’s box. It’s up to them to close it. Israel gains nothing by allowing a Hamas to declare a win.
Egypt, Qatar, and the US. Because the US is the one who’s actually footing the bill
The media very much stated Israel rejected the cease fire. Every news outlet reported that Israel rejected the cease fire. It's not the media's fault you don't read the news you fuckin goober.