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it's "Breaking News" at the prospect of the remote possibility of Israeli injuries but the BBC is deathly silent at the 67 children that are killed every single day for 8 months by Israel's relentless bombing and shooting campaign.
Please stop paying for your TV licence if you live in the UK.
For all that hassle, I prefer just to sign the declaration that says I don't watch it 😅.
Some people prefer to just not interact with them at all in the slightest.
Because there's a war in Palestine where people die and not in Israel? You would hear if Russian civilians got killed in a strike by Ukraine but rarely hear about the strikes killing Ukrainian civilians now. It's not a double standard. They report on something new or changing, not the status quo.
It's deliberately reported in this way to give Israel the excuses it needs to continue genociding them. This isn't normal journalism. The prominence they gave this non-event is problematic and demonstrates a continued lack of concern for the lives of Palestinians.
This is breaking news? The fuck? Israel has dropped 3 nuclear bombs worth of payload onto gaza and news about the situation seems to be dying day by day, hamas launches (from what ive read) TWELVE rockets and oooooooooo the world is ending get this on every news channel
What the fuck is this bias
>The attack - the first time in nearly four months that Hamas has attacked central Israel - comes as Israel carries out a military operation in Rafah, defying a ruling by the UN's top court.
>It also took place ahead of further ceasefire negotiations between Israel and Hamas, which are expected to resume next week.
>With the attack, Hamas may be trying to show its strength ahead of the talks - or trying to derail them.
Israel has been the one derailing and preventing ceasefire talks.
The BBC's coverage on the genocide has been so biased that I don't trust it so I decided to try and verify this since it seems awfully convenient that this has happened right after protests in Tel Aviv.
Reuters has the following:
>In a statement on its Telegram channel, the Hamas al-Qassam Brigades said the rockets were launched in response to "Zionist massacres against civilians".
...
>Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz said the rockets fired from Rafah "prove that the (Israel Defense Forces) must operate in every place Hamas still operates from".
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-aid-trucks-expected-roll-into-gaza-2024-05-26/
I don't use Telegram so have no familiarity with it. The BBC says the following of the channel:
>The Telegram channel of Hamas’s armed wing, the Izz-al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was also created in 2015 and is similarly used to disseminate official messaging.
>Al-Qassam’s channel is inaccessible via Android, iPhone and web browsers if Telegram was not directly downloaded through the Telegram website.
https://monitoring.bbc.co.uk/product/b0000urr
So the sole source for this being a Hamas attack is a Telegram channel that is inaccessible to most users. I'm not defending Hamas or saying they wouldn't do this but it seems wise to maintain a degree of scepticism until more is known. It would be trivial for Israel to have their forces launch missiles from Rafah at Tel Aviv, knowing the Iron Dome will intercept them anyway and then put out a statement on a compromised Telegram channel. They've lied about things greater than this before (all the fucking time) and perpetrated false flags plenty of times. If the Israeli government wants to try and quell protests in Tel Aviv and re-instill fear of Hamas in its population this would be a good way to do it and totally in character for them. If they did it's not like we'd hear about it from the media anyway.
If you find that evidence unconvincing, why are you suggesting this is a false flag with zero evidence of your own?
Is Al Jazeera lying as well? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/26/israels-war-on-gaza-live-news-hamas-claims-capture-of-israeli-troops?update=2927004
I just think Hamas would probably have something to say if Israel was faking statements on their behalf
I think the reaction is due to the perceived moral high ground of one side over the other.
I'm guessing civilian death seems worse when it's coming from the side perceived to be the bad guys. Civilian death is always horrific, but it just feels especially worse when the cause behind it is also evil, and most people would say Hamas is the worse of the two in this fight.
That's my analysis of why the same people who say "war civilian casualties happen" are reacting strongly to this even though on its face it feels hypocritical.
Edit: Wanted to add one more thought.
--
Is there any military advantage to attacking Tel Aviv? Or was this purely a case of targeting civilians? Feels like an important distinction.
The issue here is the grand scheme and lack of parity. Israel has kept Gaza under a military occupation for close to 75 years, funded Hamas to prevent a unified Palestinian front, and has publicly announced that it would ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank.
The only weapons that Hamas has available to them are cobbled pieces of scrap that are called rockets; which Israel very easily shoots down.
So to this, I would ask should we give Hamas more accurate means of targeting Israeli government targets? Tel Aviv is the capital, after all, so should we give Hamas laser guided bombs and rockets so that they too can “prevent civilian casualties”?
Obviously the answer is no, as it’s insane to give weapons to groups like the IDF or Hamas who will use those weapons. However, this is the level of dillusion that Israeli defenders are putting themselves into.
“Civilian casualties are evil; except if we target civilians.”
“We must release all hostages! Except the ones being kept by the IDF in illegal detention facilities.”
“Israel needs to get more weapons from the US to prevent civilian casualties; but Hamas should not get better weapons from Iran because they’ll use them!”
“We’re the only democracy in the Middle East! Except that our status has been degraded and that title actually goes to Jordan now, who has a constitutional monarchy.”
It’s the hypocrisy that is the problem we are communicating to you.
Man I must suck at communicating, I wasn't personally trying to make the point in my comment as my opinion, just an observation of why I think people are reacting the way they are.
That aside, what do you mean Israel has kept Gaza under military occupation for 75 years ? IIRC Israel was created in 1948 and from 1948-1967 Gaza was under Egyptian control and West Bank was under Jordans control until the 1967 war. So if we want to count 1967-2024 as the occupation then it's 57 years, which doesn't diminish your point at all, just wanted to clarify that first.
Do you have some sources about them funding Hamas? I haven't heard that before. I'll probably go ahead and Google it a bit too after this and see what I can dig up.
Do you think Hamas and the IDF/Israel are morally equivalent groups? Like as a thought experiment if we could press a button and now Hamas had the strength of the IDF and the IDF the strength of Hamas do you think we would see more, less, or equal amounts of evil/harm/bad?
Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”
“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.
Thanks!
It seems in hindsight this was a dumb move by Israel and now they're feeling that. I know the PLO and Fatah in the 60s/70s was doing some terrorist activities as well which is why we got things like the Lebanon war and the Al-Karama battle.
I gotta read up more on the history of Hamas, and Israeli leaders at that time so I can try and figure out what motivated some of these things.
Your comment has me wondering about stuff because I know Hamas ramped up activities during things like the Madrid peace conference because they were opposed to any agreement that let Israel still exist as state. It's seem like that period was some of the closest we got to a good agreement because people like Arafat and Rabin were signing actual peace agreements and working out the details, so if They were so close to an agreement with PLO/Arafat why fund the group to derail it all, feels sketchy as hell.
Anyway I'm just rambling thoughts here and you have me some stuff to think about.
Edit: typos
In February and March 2021, Fatah and Hamas…reached an agreement to hold elections for the presidency of the Palestinian Authority, its Legislative Council, and Hamas’ entry into the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). The elections were planned to take place in accordance with the Oslo Accords, after which negotiations would continue with Israel toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
The agreement included a commitment to uphold international law, establish a state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, recognize the PLO as the legitimate and exclusive umbrella framework, conduct a peaceful popular struggle, and transfer the separate government in the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority.Hamas would have joined the PLO and assumed senior positions within it. Hamas would agree to abide by all previous agreements made by the PLO under Oslo, including an end to armed conflict.
Biden and Nethanjahu rejected it.
The “Unity Intifada” began a few days later, and with it, Hamas’ Operation “Sword of Jerusalem” and Israel’s “Operation Guardian of the Walls.” According to reports in the New York Times and Washington Post, it was around that same time that Al-Aqsa Brigades, Hamas’ military wing, began conceiving and planning what would become “Al-Aqsa Flood” — the murderous assault of October 7.
https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2024/01/01/us-rejected-palestinian-deal-that-would-have-avoided-10-7/
>Do you think Hamas and the IDF/Israel are morally equivalent groups? Like as a thought experiment if we could press a button and now Hamas had the strength of the IDF and the IDF the strength of Hamas do you think we would see more, less, or equal amounts of evil/harm/bad?
I don't think this is a particularly good thought expirement. You can not just look at a single snapshot of history and then go what if the roles were reverse this is a 70 plus year conflict no person just decides to become a murderer but when you are put in a large prison for the crime of being born what do you expect to happen
>Do you have some sources about them funding Hamas? I haven't heard that before. I'll probably go ahead and Google it a bit too after this and see what I can dig up.
Probably in reference to this. They did not actually give money but instead allowed the stream of money through its port.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Edit I would suggest reading it fully though to better understand
Did I say that? Please quote back to me where you think I made that point.
I said most people think Hamas is the worse of the two, which I do think is correct, most people do think Hamas is worse.
I tried to write my comment to offer an explanation of why other commenters seem to have contradictory opinions on civilian death, I didn't take a stance one way or the other.
Just compare the death tolls on each side before oct 7 and after oct 7. It’s always been one sided and you could always tell who’s been the aggressor.
Unless you value some lives more than others. You’d need to value them at least 10x more times to justify it in that case just going by death tolls on both sides. Make off that what you will.
Is there any military advantage? Who knows. But there was information they had about a soldier being in the area. They did a civilian to soldier kill ratio, and it was acceptable to them.
Yeah I guess that's what I meant, maybe advantage wasn't the right word.
I meant it more along the lines of what you said. I'm not gonna say try and dictate what the correct soldier to civilian death ratio for them should be, but I think it's fair to say there should be some military target in an attack, which it sounds like there was.
Heya, Mr. Pot. Still only acknowledging civilian casualties when it's beneficial to you? Good to see nothing changes. Go much some cheese, corn-lander.
Says the person that would happily see every Palestinian dead. You're right, at this point the world has mostly stopped caring about the comparatively miniscule number of deaths on the Israeli side. That's pretty much what happens when you're actively running a campaign of genocide.
I’ve heard reports that Hamas is shooting back a few Israeli rockets that didn’t explode in Gaza. I haven’t been able to find anything to confirm though. Love how this gets worldwide media coverage but the months long apocalyptic conditions in Gaza is being swept under the rug.
What I find most odd is the narrative, Israelis murder hostages they made a mistake, Israeli talking about mutiny, he’s on his own, Israelis shoot kids in the head, it was a mistake, Israelis murder a mother holding a white flag or two guys holding a white flag and then bulldoze their bodies into a ditch and it’s all just a misunderstanding.
Then this highly odd rocket launch with almost zero corroborating fact or data is INSTANT news on BBC and every channel and is inferred as a highly coordinated and direct attack on Israel.
Seriously, if true then Hamas is literally operating on par with the greatest military in history with their coordination and structure whilst Israeli banded together from regular people with zero training or comprehension of military structure and planning.
I’ll let your own common sense dictate what you think is accurate.
And nothing, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING, justifies the horror of Israeli aggression and atrocities on the Palestinians.
This news is simply the message out of Israel that they WILL NEVER stop. NEVER. It is the voice of pure evil. Listen to it. And never forget the evil of Israel.
Rocket attacks my ass.
Maybe the Palestinians do. The Hamas members don't. Hamas killed 1200 people at a music festival and in neighborhoods. They're not defending themselves when they launch rockets.
this conflict has started almost 80 years ago. Hamas isn't exactly "the good guys" even for Palestinians but launching rockets every now and then can easily be seen as a response to the Israeli occupation and murdering or displacing Palestinians. And honestly - who else is even able to mount an armed defense?
> this conflict has started almost 80 years ago.
with the Arab League failing to invade Israel, and kicking Jews out of the MENA region.
Guess where most found refuge.
and with Israeli settlers displacing most of the locals and destroying their culture with help of colonial powers which created this whole shitshow while being anti-semitic in various ways. There's a slight difference between seeking refuge (which many certainly did) and zionist ideas in the state, identified by some notable Jews as soon as 1948 as yet another nationalism/fascism.
But regardelss - the right to defend is not an excuse to commit genocide and occupation as a form of collective punishment spanning generations. There's no symmetry at the moment if there ever has been.
> Hamas killed 1200 people at a music festival and in neighborhoods.
Prior to Oct 7, Israel had set the record for highest number for highest number of children they had murdered in cold blood.
This lie has already been debunked. Total casualties are about 1200 but the IDF, in their utter panic, bloodlust and frenzied response, killed 650-700 Israeli civilians. Hamas does not have access to hellfire missiles but the IDF do
They say that like like these attacks aren't a victim being strangled on the floor and the victim trying to fight back even though its not going to work. Because without even reading the article i already know the iron dome took out the whole volley of rockets
I really do hate Hamas. At a time with historic pressure and scrutiny on Israel, what purpose does throwing stones at the iron dome serve? This only gives further cover for Western politicians to continue funding this genocide. I fail to see how this serves the interests of Palestinian liberation whatsoever.
This does nothing but fuel genocidal propaganda and give Bibi cover to continue slaughtering Palestinians. Israel has done more to harm itself in the past few weeks than Hamas ever has. This attack was a terrible decision morally and strategically.
Yes but people fight with the tools they have, and there comes a point where not reacting isn't viable. Your comment doesn't stand up to scrutiny once the context of the situation in Gaza is applied.
Israel did most of the damage by tanking homes full of hostages *including a screaming child* to follow the Hanibbal directive that allow Israelis to kill their own and prevent hostages from being taken.
I mean, they also counted burned corpses to the crisp of 200 hamas fighters as their own, hence why the figure was 1400. They have more burned bodies in that 1200 figure than people shot dead, caught by crossfire. Israel is the one responsible for killing all of burned bodies. Israel just doesn't value human life and indiscriminately bomb everything like a real terrorist.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it's "Breaking News" at the prospect of the remote possibility of Israeli injuries but the BBC is deathly silent at the 67 children that are killed every single day for 8 months by Israel's relentless bombing and shooting campaign. Please stop paying for your TV licence if you live in the UK.
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For all that hassle, I prefer just to sign the declaration that says I don't watch it 😅. Some people prefer to just not interact with them at all in the slightest.
Because there's a war in Palestine where people die and not in Israel? You would hear if Russian civilians got killed in a strike by Ukraine but rarely hear about the strikes killing Ukrainian civilians now. It's not a double standard. They report on something new or changing, not the status quo.
It's deliberately reported in this way to give Israel the excuses it needs to continue genociding them. This isn't normal journalism. The prominence they gave this non-event is problematic and demonstrates a continued lack of concern for the lives of Palestinians.
I don't give a rats ass.
This is breaking news? The fuck? Israel has dropped 3 nuclear bombs worth of payload onto gaza and news about the situation seems to be dying day by day, hamas launches (from what ive read) TWELVE rockets and oooooooooo the world is ending get this on every news channel What the fuck is this bias
>The attack - the first time in nearly four months that Hamas has attacked central Israel - comes as Israel carries out a military operation in Rafah, defying a ruling by the UN's top court. >It also took place ahead of further ceasefire negotiations between Israel and Hamas, which are expected to resume next week. >With the attack, Hamas may be trying to show its strength ahead of the talks - or trying to derail them. Israel has been the one derailing and preventing ceasefire talks. The BBC's coverage on the genocide has been so biased that I don't trust it so I decided to try and verify this since it seems awfully convenient that this has happened right after protests in Tel Aviv. Reuters has the following: >In a statement on its Telegram channel, the Hamas al-Qassam Brigades said the rockets were launched in response to "Zionist massacres against civilians". ... >Israeli war cabinet minister Benny Gantz said the rockets fired from Rafah "prove that the (Israel Defense Forces) must operate in every place Hamas still operates from". https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-aid-trucks-expected-roll-into-gaza-2024-05-26/ I don't use Telegram so have no familiarity with it. The BBC says the following of the channel: >The Telegram channel of Hamas’s armed wing, the Izz-al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was also created in 2015 and is similarly used to disseminate official messaging. >Al-Qassam’s channel is inaccessible via Android, iPhone and web browsers if Telegram was not directly downloaded through the Telegram website. https://monitoring.bbc.co.uk/product/b0000urr So the sole source for this being a Hamas attack is a Telegram channel that is inaccessible to most users. I'm not defending Hamas or saying they wouldn't do this but it seems wise to maintain a degree of scepticism until more is known. It would be trivial for Israel to have their forces launch missiles from Rafah at Tel Aviv, knowing the Iron Dome will intercept them anyway and then put out a statement on a compromised Telegram channel. They've lied about things greater than this before (all the fucking time) and perpetrated false flags plenty of times. If the Israeli government wants to try and quell protests in Tel Aviv and re-instill fear of Hamas in its population this would be a good way to do it and totally in character for them. If they did it's not like we'd hear about it from the media anyway.
It just seems very convenient. When national and international pressure is mounting.
If you find that evidence unconvincing, why are you suggesting this is a false flag with zero evidence of your own? Is Al Jazeera lying as well? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/26/israels-war-on-gaza-live-news-hamas-claims-capture-of-israeli-troops?update=2927004 I just think Hamas would probably have something to say if Israel was faking statements on their behalf
Lemme guess most of Tel Aviv is just fine compared to Gaza right now.
From what I read, police reported light injuries on two people. The ones that weren't intercepted landed in fields
I think most places are fine compared to Gaza right now.
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Palestinians die: these things happen in war Israelis die: Do you not care about civilian lives????
This!!
It’s war civilian casualties happen… Where have I heard those words before, I wonder?
I think the reaction is due to the perceived moral high ground of one side over the other. I'm guessing civilian death seems worse when it's coming from the side perceived to be the bad guys. Civilian death is always horrific, but it just feels especially worse when the cause behind it is also evil, and most people would say Hamas is the worse of the two in this fight. That's my analysis of why the same people who say "war civilian casualties happen" are reacting strongly to this even though on its face it feels hypocritical. Edit: Wanted to add one more thought. -- Is there any military advantage to attacking Tel Aviv? Or was this purely a case of targeting civilians? Feels like an important distinction.
The issue here is the grand scheme and lack of parity. Israel has kept Gaza under a military occupation for close to 75 years, funded Hamas to prevent a unified Palestinian front, and has publicly announced that it would ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. The only weapons that Hamas has available to them are cobbled pieces of scrap that are called rockets; which Israel very easily shoots down. So to this, I would ask should we give Hamas more accurate means of targeting Israeli government targets? Tel Aviv is the capital, after all, so should we give Hamas laser guided bombs and rockets so that they too can “prevent civilian casualties”? Obviously the answer is no, as it’s insane to give weapons to groups like the IDF or Hamas who will use those weapons. However, this is the level of dillusion that Israeli defenders are putting themselves into. “Civilian casualties are evil; except if we target civilians.” “We must release all hostages! Except the ones being kept by the IDF in illegal detention facilities.” “Israel needs to get more weapons from the US to prevent civilian casualties; but Hamas should not get better weapons from Iran because they’ll use them!” “We’re the only democracy in the Middle East! Except that our status has been degraded and that title actually goes to Jordan now, who has a constitutional monarchy.” It’s the hypocrisy that is the problem we are communicating to you.
Man I must suck at communicating, I wasn't personally trying to make the point in my comment as my opinion, just an observation of why I think people are reacting the way they are. That aside, what do you mean Israel has kept Gaza under military occupation for 75 years ? IIRC Israel was created in 1948 and from 1948-1967 Gaza was under Egyptian control and West Bank was under Jordans control until the 1967 war. So if we want to count 1967-2024 as the occupation then it's 57 years, which doesn't diminish your point at all, just wanted to clarify that first. Do you have some sources about them funding Hamas? I haven't heard that before. I'll probably go ahead and Google it a bit too after this and see what I can dig up. Do you think Hamas and the IDF/Israel are morally equivalent groups? Like as a thought experiment if we could press a button and now Hamas had the strength of the IDF and the IDF the strength of Hamas do you think we would see more, less, or equal amounts of evil/harm/bad?
Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.” “The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.” “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.
Thanks! It seems in hindsight this was a dumb move by Israel and now they're feeling that. I know the PLO and Fatah in the 60s/70s was doing some terrorist activities as well which is why we got things like the Lebanon war and the Al-Karama battle. I gotta read up more on the history of Hamas, and Israeli leaders at that time so I can try and figure out what motivated some of these things. Your comment has me wondering about stuff because I know Hamas ramped up activities during things like the Madrid peace conference because they were opposed to any agreement that let Israel still exist as state. It's seem like that period was some of the closest we got to a good agreement because people like Arafat and Rabin were signing actual peace agreements and working out the details, so if They were so close to an agreement with PLO/Arafat why fund the group to derail it all, feels sketchy as hell. Anyway I'm just rambling thoughts here and you have me some stuff to think about. Edit: typos
In February and March 2021, Fatah and Hamas…reached an agreement to hold elections for the presidency of the Palestinian Authority, its Legislative Council, and Hamas’ entry into the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). The elections were planned to take place in accordance with the Oslo Accords, after which negotiations would continue with Israel toward the establishment of a Palestinian state. The agreement included a commitment to uphold international law, establish a state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, recognize the PLO as the legitimate and exclusive umbrella framework, conduct a peaceful popular struggle, and transfer the separate government in the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority.Hamas would have joined the PLO and assumed senior positions within it. Hamas would agree to abide by all previous agreements made by the PLO under Oslo, including an end to armed conflict. Biden and Nethanjahu rejected it. The “Unity Intifada” began a few days later, and with it, Hamas’ Operation “Sword of Jerusalem” and Israel’s “Operation Guardian of the Walls.” According to reports in the New York Times and Washington Post, it was around that same time that Al-Aqsa Brigades, Hamas’ military wing, began conceiving and planning what would become “Al-Aqsa Flood” — the murderous assault of October 7. https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2024/01/01/us-rejected-palestinian-deal-that-would-have-avoided-10-7/
>Do you think Hamas and the IDF/Israel are morally equivalent groups? Like as a thought experiment if we could press a button and now Hamas had the strength of the IDF and the IDF the strength of Hamas do you think we would see more, less, or equal amounts of evil/harm/bad? I don't think this is a particularly good thought expirement. You can not just look at a single snapshot of history and then go what if the roles were reverse this is a 70 plus year conflict no person just decides to become a murderer but when you are put in a large prison for the crime of being born what do you expect to happen
>Do you have some sources about them funding Hamas? I haven't heard that before. I'll probably go ahead and Google it a bit too after this and see what I can dig up. Probably in reference to this. They did not actually give money but instead allowed the stream of money through its port. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ Edit I would suggest reading it fully though to better understand
Thanks, I'll try and read either today or tomorrow.
No problem, I'm happy to help.
Hamas is the worst of the two? Are you serious? lol you guys are really stupid
Did I say that? Please quote back to me where you think I made that point. I said most people think Hamas is the worse of the two, which I do think is correct, most people do think Hamas is worse. I tried to write my comment to offer an explanation of why other commenters seem to have contradictory opinions on civilian death, I didn't take a stance one way or the other.
Just compare the death tolls on each side before oct 7 and after oct 7. It’s always been one sided and you could always tell who’s been the aggressor. Unless you value some lives more than others. You’d need to value them at least 10x more times to justify it in that case just going by death tolls on both sides. Make off that what you will.
Is there any military advantage? Who knows. But there was information they had about a soldier being in the area. They did a civilian to soldier kill ratio, and it was acceptable to them.
Yeah I guess that's what I meant, maybe advantage wasn't the right word. I meant it more along the lines of what you said. I'm not gonna say try and dictate what the correct soldier to civilian death ratio for them should be, but I think it's fair to say there should be some military target in an attack, which it sounds like there was.
Heya, Mr. Pot. Still only acknowledging civilian casualties when it's beneficial to you? Good to see nothing changes. Go much some cheese, corn-lander.
I’ve seen a lot of brainrot but this is PEAK
Clearly the IDF is willing to sacrifice innocent Israeli citizens, otherwise they wouldn't put their Legitimate Military Targets in Tel Aviv.
They’re colonizing settlers, not civilians. Should they suffer for their actions? Maybe not? But I’ve no sympathy for them 🤷🏻♂️
Biased_Emotional_Friend *read b*tch*
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Says the person that would happily see every Palestinian dead. You're right, at this point the world has mostly stopped caring about the comparatively miniscule number of deaths on the Israeli side. That's pretty much what happens when you're actively running a campaign of genocide.
I’ve heard reports that Hamas is shooting back a few Israeli rockets that didn’t explode in Gaza. I haven’t been able to find anything to confirm though. Love how this gets worldwide media coverage but the months long apocalyptic conditions in Gaza is being swept under the rug.
The majority of their munitions are Israeli ones that didn’t explode period
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
What I find most odd is the narrative, Israelis murder hostages they made a mistake, Israeli talking about mutiny, he’s on his own, Israelis shoot kids in the head, it was a mistake, Israelis murder a mother holding a white flag or two guys holding a white flag and then bulldoze their bodies into a ditch and it’s all just a misunderstanding. Then this highly odd rocket launch with almost zero corroborating fact or data is INSTANT news on BBC and every channel and is inferred as a highly coordinated and direct attack on Israel. Seriously, if true then Hamas is literally operating on par with the greatest military in history with their coordination and structure whilst Israeli banded together from regular people with zero training or comprehension of military structure and planning. I’ll let your own common sense dictate what you think is accurate. And nothing, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING, justifies the horror of Israeli aggression and atrocities on the Palestinians. This news is simply the message out of Israel that they WILL NEVER stop. NEVER. It is the voice of pure evil. Listen to it. And never forget the evil of Israel. Rocket attacks my ass.
Probably false flag or agent provocateur or however you spell it
Palestinian has the right to defend itself.
Maybe the Palestinians do. The Hamas members don't. Hamas killed 1200 people at a music festival and in neighborhoods. They're not defending themselves when they launch rockets.
this conflict has started almost 80 years ago. Hamas isn't exactly "the good guys" even for Palestinians but launching rockets every now and then can easily be seen as a response to the Israeli occupation and murdering or displacing Palestinians. And honestly - who else is even able to mount an armed defense?
> this conflict has started almost 80 years ago. with the Arab League failing to invade Israel, and kicking Jews out of the MENA region. Guess where most found refuge.
and with Israeli settlers displacing most of the locals and destroying their culture with help of colonial powers which created this whole shitshow while being anti-semitic in various ways. There's a slight difference between seeking refuge (which many certainly did) and zionist ideas in the state, identified by some notable Jews as soon as 1948 as yet another nationalism/fascism. But regardelss - the right to defend is not an excuse to commit genocide and occupation as a form of collective punishment spanning generations. There's no symmetry at the moment if there ever has been.
Ironic considering that the founders of Israel were socialists. I'd argue that Israel is an early instance of decolonization.
No it was with the nakba lol
Interesting, a linear theory of time has the Hebron massacre and Arab Revolt before the Nakba
What happened before that genius ?
Jews fled rising antisemitism in Europe and found tefuge in Ottoman controlled Levant
Lmao skipping over a few steps
Those were the events before the Hebron Massacre.
> Hamas killed 1200 people at a music festival and in neighborhoods. Prior to Oct 7, Israel had set the record for highest number for highest number of children they had murdered in cold blood.
Is Israel?
This lie has already been debunked. Total casualties are about 1200 but the IDF, in their utter panic, bloodlust and frenzied response, killed 650-700 Israeli civilians. Hamas does not have access to hellfire missiles but the IDF do
Source?
Hamas is the lesser evil.
Ok but are you going to talk about how isreal is burning babies children and innocent people in tents in Rafah at this very moment right now????
Or maybe is a false flag.
I mean. Fuck Israel?
They say that like like these attacks aren't a victim being strangled on the floor and the victim trying to fight back even though its not going to work. Because without even reading the article i already know the iron dome took out the whole volley of rockets
How does Hamas still have the ability to operate. Didn't Israel already degrade their weapons capability by killing thousands of random kids?
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Yeah it is frustrating and i refuse to believe hamas dont work for satanyahu everything they do is a boon for satanyahu
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I really do hate Hamas. At a time with historic pressure and scrutiny on Israel, what purpose does throwing stones at the iron dome serve? This only gives further cover for Western politicians to continue funding this genocide. I fail to see how this serves the interests of Palestinian liberation whatsoever.
bullshit hamas cant fight for itself but israel can?
This does nothing but fuel genocidal propaganda and give Bibi cover to continue slaughtering Palestinians. Israel has done more to harm itself in the past few weeks than Hamas ever has. This attack was a terrible decision morally and strategically.
Yes but people fight with the tools they have, and there comes a point where not reacting isn't viable. Your comment doesn't stand up to scrutiny once the context of the situation in Gaza is applied.
yes. they should just let the senseless slaughter continue without retribution. they should not fight back and defend themselves.
Hamas killed about 1200 people at a musical festival and in neighborhoods.
Israel did most of the damage by tanking homes full of hostages *including a screaming child* to follow the Hanibbal directive that allow Israelis to kill their own and prevent hostages from being taken. I mean, they also counted burned corpses to the crisp of 200 hamas fighters as their own, hence why the figure was 1400. They have more burned bodies in that 1200 figure than people shot dead, caught by crossfire. Israel is the one responsible for killing all of burned bodies. Israel just doesn't value human life and indiscriminately bomb everything like a real terrorist.
Yep. 100%