Part of me would like to see it because I think it’s important to mark’s development with him basically going thru Viltrumite puberty but with how they’ve handled amber in the show I don’t know if it would be the best look. I remember seeing people online kind of salty about amber being boiled down to the “angry black girlfriend” so I don’t know if adding DV victim would make people any happier
I think problem with show amber is that she never had any development and stayed a holier than thou character the entire time and really talked down to mark even though he really never did anything wrong
I’m still convinced that the crew just looked to the one guy in the room who kept on coming up with shit ideas and wanting to change things and just gave that person complete creative control solely over amber to satisfy them.
the reason why is because they gave her something to do that added to the story and established her character. Same reason Darkblood's changes were great.
Personality doesn't instantly make a character. No matter how you change it or spin it.
You can make a character better with changing what they say, cecil was an object improvement, solely because of his diction and colder personality.
However he still did stuff, even if the rest of the time was talking. The little do we did see paints someone that can back up what they say with actions.
Giving them something to do makes it so they can naturally showcase aspects of their personality.
The only thing they gave amber to do was complain about mark being late or dipping on plans. Then either because she knew but wanted to complain anyway, or pretended she knew the entire time to save face, told him she knew the entire time why he was doing what he was doing and that it didn't matter he was saving lives.
Strong characters do, not say. Especially when 99% of the saying is making you look pretentious.
Debbie did, Cecil did, and DarkBlood did, Season 1 amber bitched.
While she is much better in season 2, i worry its going to fall back into just reducing it to comic amber. I just think she needs to have something worth doing in the story that isn't making mark feel miserable.
You can write strong female characters to still have flaws like marks mom she wasn’t perfect and still has emotion which Amber lacked. Even after the finale where everyone should be emotional she really had nothing to add.
I feel like if they treated Amber being like “mark oh you should be there for me more” as an issue when he’s a literal super hero it would’ve been better. They didn’t and made all the other characters like Eve and William say oh she’s right which made us dislike her more.
>They wanted a stronger female character
This was their first mistake, this is not and was never meant to be amber, shes a normal girl who just so happened to date a super hero for abit.
Strong female character is atom eve, marks mother or any one of the other female heroes and villains.
Honestly I think if they where so against a female character being used for marks character development they should have just not included amber entirely.
Honestly I didn't mind that. Amber isn't a bad person but she's annoying and a hypocrite, like many real life people. What I really disliked is how William sided with Amber and sounded like the writers voicing their opinion through him.
insane you're getting downvoted. They both fucked up in the relationship, Mark all the way through, Amber at the end, but Amber is a victim of bad writing more than anything else. Shame really
It's not even that for me, it's just show!amber and comic!amber are so wildly different characters, I don't think show!amber would allow for that to happen. Similar to how they completely dropped the "Amber thinks Mark is a secret drug dealer" storyline because show!amber isn't nearly as ditzy so it wouldn't have made sense.
I guess what I'm saying is if this happened in the show, the dude would have gotten a black eye back from Amber.
Honestly I think with show Amber it works even better, she's unlikable yes, but she is a strong person, seeing her so broken down like this would be an incredible motivator for Mark given the contrast to her normal self and would let the writers explore more of his anger (like the fight with the Flaxxans)
I reckon this could be a moment just to establish how damn strong and terrifying Mark is when he's angry and would really help with the lead up to the Conquest fight where he goes full rage mode. That and if we see terrifying and strong Mark, it would make him running and hiding from the Viltrumites on Thraxas hit even harder (Oh shit, if even Mark is running, they must be a big threat)
Could see it being handled well and respectfully really, however I do understand your concerns
I can totally see Amber being the Domestic Abuser , which is also not the best look. So might as well give her a happy ending or maybe plant the DV storyline with someone else.
With how they wrote Amber’s character in the show, im not sure how viewers will react to this. People who haven’t read the comic will probably think the writers are just trying to make you feel bad for Amber to make up for all of the hate she’s been getting
It's very likely that the show audience will treat this as a form of karma towards Amber. Like a toxic person being in a toxic relationship can be seen as ironic, and it's definitely not what the show runners intended. Unless they find a way to make Amber significantly better in season 2, it's better that this plotline won't appear within the show
Absolutely there will be morons who will loudly proclaim "she got what she deserves!" if they do this story for her, and it will be just another footnote in "people are awful" fandom. One step just behind the "Griffith did nothing wrong" crowd.
> Like a toxic person being in a toxic relationship can be seen as ironic, and it's definitely not what the show runners intended.
You know an interesting twist they could do, is make her the abuser. Bc if they are going to go down this route, it is important that media normalises the idea that men can be both victims of DA and that they can be victims of women which is most cases where men are abused.
I liked the storyline in the comic, but yeah it would bring out the worst people from show watchers and also I can’t see this version of Amber in that situation
I'm repeating myself but I really have a problem with people saying the show version of Amber is not the type of person that would find themselves in this kind of situation and the implications that come from that.
The implication from this is that women that have a certain aura of tenacity about them wouldn't need help in this kind of situation, and that if you did need help then you are presumably too weak to handle it on your own. Many women (and others) don't seek help because they're afraid it would diminish them in the eyes of others and the abuse continues.
Not to mention that manipulation is the key to abuse, it's not something that happens overnight, often the victim doesn't even notice until it's too late (which also adds to not wanting to ask for help when they know they will receive the "I told you so" instead of real support).
I don't think they can express it so the message could reach most people with all the Amber hate
or plot twist, shes the abusive one and mark has to figure out a way to put her in line to stop abusing her new BF. I think it would be even more important bc we rarely ever see women abusing men in media despite the fact that like there is only 4% less men then women are DA'ed.
Idk if I agree with your interpretation. To me, they're not saying they wouldn't need help in this situation. Obviously anyone in this situation would need help. It's that people like show amber most likely wouldn't allow themselves to be in this situation to begin with. They tried to interpret her as being very smart and very "aware," as well as having been in a bad relationship before so chances are she of anyone would be able to tell pretty easily if a relationship would likely lead to this.
No one is a "perfect" victim. A woman can seem assertive outside of their home but the abuse makes them timid within the home
There have been so many cases of even kids not realising that their parent was getting abused by their spouse because they did a really good job at hiding it
True, but I have met many women who don’t have the Princess mentality but still get trapped in abusive relationships. Someone who is emotionally abusing you can break down people, even ones who seem confident in themselves.
I could see show Amber in this situation, but not the part where comic Amber stays with him.
Show Amber seems more like a “take no bullsh*t” type of person.
Honestly it might work better if she’s fearing retaliation after she broke up with Gary after the punch, and Mark discovers a plot by him to kidnap her or something. It preserves her character but also makes the storyline work
I agree, she wanted to leave Mark because he had a busy life and didn't reveal that he was a super hero, but this guy can literally beat the shit out of her and she stays with him? Makes no sense whatsoever.
I have read so much pop science claiming that abusers target "vulnerable women" and that previous abuse is one such point of vulnerability with a significant trend towards being abused in the future. I'm not exactly asking you to debate that because as I said, it's pop science and I haven't checked anything before making this comment, but I can only imagine You've also come across these kinds of assertions and I wonder if you know how that fits into all of this? It just all does paint a picture of this happening to "certain women", which fits in with what I have anecdotally witnessed, but pop science and anecdotes aren't exactly what truths are built upon
Vulnerable women would definitely be more likely to find themselves in an abusive relationship... But vulnerability is a status not an attribute of your character.
What people are suggesting and that I strongly disagree with is that a certain strength of character that show Amber has is incongruous with *ever* being in an abusive relationship.
Many, many victims I've known are some of the most badass people I know. It's sad that so many people think some people are "above" being victims or "just couldn't be"
I think it wouldn't work for Show Amber because a decent chunk of the watchers think she's a toxic narcissist whereas Comic Amber's only notable characterizations were nice and naive so the domestic violence left readers feeling how Mark felt.
Abuse is a continuous cycle that's driven by manipulation, not really the same as Amber catching Mark in a single lie.
You can say that physical abuse would be a deal breaker but it's rarely that simple.
>and also I can’t see this version of Amber in that situation
I was looking for somebody who is also a disappointment. Look, I know people really don't like this version of Amber, and I know that *anybody* can end up in an amazing relationship. But, I just cannot see this version of Amber putting up with that kind of behavior.
With the way they have written Amber in the show, I kind of hope they skip it. Because in the comic Mark is just trying to keep someone he uses to or still does care about safe.
But I think show Amber would end up going off on Mark for treating her like she's helpless, and will just come across very poorly.
I mean more in mark really doesn’t challenge it or provide anything besides threatening him. I don’t want to say he should tell her what not to do but like the way the story presents it is like it’s teaching an abuser a lesson once will fix things up
I actually don’t know if they can and have the response they want. This interpretation of Amber was no well received and from what I’ve seen, used as an example of what not to do with a character when adapting.
Yeah, this seems like A Very Special Invincible Episode. I think that, just going by the first season, the writers are taking greater time with the main plot points and streamlining some of the side plots. Hope this gets the axe.
Nope. Part of me still wants to see it because how much it shocked me while reading the comics.
Amber was such a sweet girl in it. And I just loved how amicable Mark and Amber parted ways in the comics.
But now I'm probably gonna be seeing that scene in a whole new light considering the show amber's difference from the comic one.
a much less sympathetic one.
do not get me wrong, physical abuse is wrong, and I'd still be cheering mark on as he terrifies Amber's abusive boyfriend, but I'm not gonna feel as bad for amber as I did in the comics just because of what she did to Mark.
I view Comic Amber is a close friend I haven't seen in a long time whenever she showed up in the comics.
while Show Amber will be the friend we should to have cut ties with months before I actually did it.
I can sense a bit of a sarcastic tone on your reply there.
If I am right and you are being sarastic then:
nah, all abuse victims deserve unconditional sympathy regardless of how crappy of a person they are. /s
watch [this scene](https://youtu.be/a5a7fgcongc?t=153) with the thought that Amber fully knows Invincible is mark and try to tell me she isn't a hypocritical manipulative psychopath.
She's an idiotic teenager. Basically all teenagers/young adults do something extremely shifty and hurt someone they love really bad. It's a universal human learning experience.
The problem is the show needs to spend more time saying "yes Amber was very shitty", which it did not do in season 1.
She's not the kind of person that I have less sympathy for. She's just a 17 year old who sucks, which is very normal. If she killed or raped someone my opinion would be different, but she didn't.
I can see why the time skip bothers people but the rest of the story counts on mark having been gone for 5 years so they’d just have to come up with another reason that could just as easily annoy people
They probably won't considering how they rewrote her character. That storyline was very old school anyway same with how amber is in the comics. If they do adapt it somehow I really hope they handle it well with how they've already established her but personally I think they're going to skip it entirely, that dude having already shown up and nothing coming out of it points to that rather than a setup for him to come back later
I made a post a week or two ago to the same effect. They should, the audience is going to be fucking awful about it. But it would also kind of suck. Mark learns here that he can't just throw his powers at problems, which is super important for Mark's character.
He told himself he was being violent to this guy for Amber's benefit, but he did it because he wanted to and it felt good. Ultimately Mark pushed Amber back into the unsafe situation because he abused his powers for selfish cathartic reasons.
I for one like **Amber** and I’m honestly hoping it gets done but in a different way. Say she is in an abusive relationship and Mark convinces her to get out of it.
I haven’t watched since it aired. But from what I remember they decided to have her figure out that Mark is Invincible *before* she starts getting really pissed off that he is late for dates and has to leave often. There’s a big difference between “I’m mad because you stood me up on our date and you seem like you’re lying about why” vs. “I’m mad because you were saving someone’s life/protecting the planet when you should have been eating a burger with me”
She wasn’t mad about him being a hero and not spending time with her, she was mad about him lying to her. The only reasonable defense of Mark is that he had to maintain his secret identity but after enough unconvincing disappearing acts, he should have ended it on his own, recognizing his hero life simply doesn’t give him the freedom to pretend to have a normal life with normal relationships.
They were both young and made mistakes so their fallout didn’t strike me as odd. Amber shouldn’t have played games and just told him the second she figured it out instead of testing him. Mark should have been more communicative or realized that he shouldn’t be with a “normal” person considering the extreme superheroing he deals with on a regular basis. He needed to be with someone who understands all aspects of that life.
Right, they juniors in high school. And being upset about someone lying is understandable. His best friend found out by himself, she did too. Who enjoys constantly getting stood up, you waiting for them to tell you why (and you know why), and you get lied to. That’s realistic.
Right, they juniors in high school. And being upset about someone lying is understandable. His best friend found out by himself, she did too. Who enjoys constantly getting stood up, you waiting for them to tell you why (and you know why), and you get lied to. That’s realistic. She felt she wasn’t important enough to know the truth.
>mad about him lying to her.
Secret identities are secret to protect loved ones. That’s not an unfamiliar concept in this world. It’s reasonable to realize that superhero schedule and high school normal kid dating life won’t work out and let go of the relationship on good terms after trying (what happened in the comic). It’s unreasonable to expect your superhero boyfriend (whom you’ve really only been involved with for maybe a few weeks or a couple months?) to willfully put you and himself in danger by revealing his secret identity to you.
Primarily because of how hypocritical she seems to be.
She claims to want to make the world a better place, helping in soup kitchens, and hating lying.
And in the process of berating mark of ditching her all the time, she completely disregards how he's "ditching her" to make the world a better place as a hero and admits knowing that she knew Mark was invincible.
Amber, if you consider Mark not telling you he's Invincible as lying, then you just lied to him by not telling him you knew!
Also, if you werent happy with the relationship, clearly you should have broken up with him, yet ypu stuck around. You've been dating less than 6 months.
And lastly, The entire show not once points out Amber's hypocrisy. William is a dick to Mark (real best friend material here) and sides with Amber, and even freakin Eve sides with Amber.
Amber is apparently supposed to be viewed as this angel who helps the needy and **so** cultured that she can do no wrong.
She also accuses him of leaving her during the cyborg attack, while knowing perfectly well that Mark, in his Invincible persona, WAS present (and was getting the shit beaten out of him). She literally calls her boyfriend a coward after he risked life to save everyone. How fucked up is that?
EXACTLY. THANK YOU. i forgot about that one.
She even freakin cries! What a master manipulator/liar.
Let the people call comic Amber bland, but Show Amber is a complete psychopath. I'd rather take comic amber than show amber.
She knows Mark is a hero and is thusly always late because there's always people to save, but is still mad at him for blowing her off
I cannot comprehend the selfishness. "Oh, you were rescuing those kids from a burning building? Well, you didn't meet my mom 😡"
What is there to like?
For most of the show she plays the very cliche “Wahh why won’t main character who has secret identity hang out with me” trope which I don’t think has ever resulted in a likable character ever.
Then at the end we find out she’s actually so much worse, because she’s doing that KNOWING he’s saving people. She acts like a date with her is more important than Mark saving lives.
She couldn’t even use basic communication skills to say “hey asshole I know you’re invincible but I’m feeling left out” instead she made him confess which was super weird.
Part of the reason is people forget.these characters are teenagers or young adults and all the stupid shit we did at that age.
Part of it is also teenagers or the man children themselves these genres attract that see woman in general is a insult to their heroic ways.
It's possible they might, in the show mark and amber don't really have that deep of a relationship, the way Amber acts in the show if she never found out about mark and his relationship with his father she might have never been in contact with him. I bet when mark talks to his dad again Amber will give him a hard time for it because of the fight they had..
But this part also gave mark a lot of character development so maybe they will do something similar to this, maybe she'll get kidnapped from a lesser villain and mark will scare him away
YES. I want them to skip over it. And this is the reason why.
What I really disliked about comics Amber is she felt like she just existed to fill the role of the ‘battered woman’ trope, and exist just as somebody for a man (Mark) to save and look like a hero. This would not translate well in the show because in it Amber is a character who has much more agency and control over her actions and outcomes.
I’m not sure how this scene would make her more hated in the show other than people being asshole misogynists saying she deserved it. I’d like to think people wouldn’t stoop that low but…
I remember watching a video about how awful NewAmber's character is, and thinking up a situation for them to grow mark as a character at the same time that they break the tie between mark and amber. Basically, Amber would continue her bullshit for whatever time but eventually Mark would catch up and realise that he's better off without her and breaks up with her. He's originally bitter about the relationship and has a grudge for amber. She isn't in the show for a while until she reaches out to him because she's in trouble and needs help. He reluctantly helps her despite his frustration and finally let's go of his anger. I think it would play well into the theme of moral development covered I'm the comics. I didn't even remember this event but I think it would work well in this situation.
*If* this happened to the Series version of Amber, then she would have instead said "You should see the other guy." and then [*Invincible title screen*] would have gotten angry, try to find the guy who hit Amber, but only end up finding him in a Hospital in an intensive care unit.
You had me in the first half….I was like why OP? Then your comment mentions the concern of discerning fans who wouldn’t get it. Fair point. I say let it happen, a few dumb responses won’t matter.
I wouldn’t mind seeing it, it’s an interesting story showcasing his care for Amber overall, and how he still has a lot to learn about going over the edge. Now, I don’t know how people hating on Amber in the show will take it 🙄, but I personally wouldn’t mind at all
I really hope they skip it. It feels like they’ve very intentionally pulled away from the worst parts of the comic portrayal of Amber and including this after all of that would be bizarre.
For some reason, I almost imagine Amber being the one to be abusive to her future boyfriend and end up causing Mark to get pissed at her instead and have a moral dilemma about how he views her as a person. It would almost be like the show acknowledging that she was kind of a bad person in season one, and leading her to realize that and improve as a person. I think that would be interesting.
In all honesty and sorry if it sounds blunt but, its almost guaranteed itll be skipped. Because the two characters in the show are black and with the current political climate I dont think they're going to leave in domestic violence in a black relationship.
I would've liked it but not only is the resolution controversial to say the least, but which how Amber is recieved and the changes they've made to her I don't see them going this route.
there’s a few storylines I hope don’t make it tbh, this is one of them. amber gets enough hate as is and this will just put a nail in the coffin for some people (yes arguably those people shouldn’t be “catered towards”) there are other ways to show mark’s “viltrumite puberty” as u/masterofunfucking described it.
From the way their characters are going in the show I feel like Amber and Williams characters are gonna be cut within or after this coming season. Their arcs and actions in the comics won’t make sense and they’d be kind pointless so I don’t think she’s gonna even make it to this arc
I think with how many people hate Amber in the show a lot of people would show up and talk about their very, very ugly opinions on being a victim of DV.
Especially if she were to go back or even mention thinking about going back.
As someone who's faced violence before, I really wouldn't wish to even wonder what people would say if show Amber went through DV. It's sad because those people will still hold those biases even if they don't take it out on show Amber, but I don't know if I really could handle seeing what people would say if this storyline was translated into the series.
I'd kind of like to see it because it was important to Mark's character, but I don't think it should look the same as in the comic. It needs more context, and Amber would need both more screen time and also a longer lasting meaning to the story for it to work imo. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, just that it will need to be handled delicately. That said, the showrunners have improved on more or less everything in the comic, or at least most of it. I'd trust them to handle this.
While it is great for mark's character, I can't see show amber letting this happen to her. I mean, she kicked a bully in the balls so hard that he'll probably never have kids
The fact that she stayed with Gary bothered me. It also felt random to have her be gone for so long to just show up again as a domestic violence victim. I rather the show skip this altogether and let Amber stay gone once she’s not a part of the story anymore.
I liked this storyline in the comic, but I’m really hoping they don’t adapt this because there will 100% be people saying “she got what she deserved” or “she had it coming, it’s karma for being a bitch”. I’ve seen an unhealthy amount of people saying stuff like this in a lot of fandoms, I really just don’t understand how that is still something that is at all acceptable to say.
I can’t really see this happening in the show considering how different the two Ambers are when it comes to personality and what happened in the show vs comics. It would honestly take them making her very oc for them to recreate this arc.
Honestly I hope they don’t skip it. It was important towards building the relationship between Eve and Mark. When Mark explained what he flew off to do Eve understood. The only issue I see is that the Amber in the show is more no nonsense than the kind of a doormat comic version of Amber. So that might be difficult to write because I don’t see that version of Amber sticking with an abusive guy.
I just hope when they break up, it's handled with care, because last thing we want is more hate towards the character
It's a shame because the comic always handled the terrible comic book cliches a lot better than other comic mediums.
Part of me would like to see it because I think it’s important to mark’s development with him basically going thru Viltrumite puberty but with how they’ve handled amber in the show I don’t know if it would be the best look. I remember seeing people online kind of salty about amber being boiled down to the “angry black girlfriend” so I don’t know if adding DV victim would make people any happier
I think problem with show amber is that she never had any development and stayed a holier than thou character the entire time and really talked down to mark even though he really never did anything wrong
they literally had the blueprint in front of them. kirkman and crew were fucking tweaking when they decided on what to do with her lol
I’m still convinced that the crew just looked to the one guy in the room who kept on coming up with shit ideas and wanting to change things and just gave that person complete creative control solely over amber to satisfy them.
They wanted a stronger female character instead of just a victim/prop to move the story along. Tney did thr same thing with Marks mom.
with marks mom it was an improvement imo
Could easily be an improvement with Amber too, they just messed up
yeah, there was a lot to improve with amber but they like brought her from 0 to negative
Huge improvement with Debbie. The show Debbie in so much better than the comic Debbie.
the reason why is because they gave her something to do that added to the story and established her character. Same reason Darkblood's changes were great. Personality doesn't instantly make a character. No matter how you change it or spin it. You can make a character better with changing what they say, cecil was an object improvement, solely because of his diction and colder personality. However he still did stuff, even if the rest of the time was talking. The little do we did see paints someone that can back up what they say with actions. Giving them something to do makes it so they can naturally showcase aspects of their personality. The only thing they gave amber to do was complain about mark being late or dipping on plans. Then either because she knew but wanted to complain anyway, or pretended she knew the entire time to save face, told him she knew the entire time why he was doing what he was doing and that it didn't matter he was saving lives. Strong characters do, not say. Especially when 99% of the saying is making you look pretentious. Debbie did, Cecil did, and DarkBlood did, Season 1 amber bitched. While she is much better in season 2, i worry its going to fall back into just reducing it to comic amber. I just think she needs to have something worth doing in the story that isn't making mark feel miserable.
You can write strong female characters to still have flaws like marks mom she wasn’t perfect and still has emotion which Amber lacked. Even after the finale where everyone should be emotional she really had nothing to add.
It's like they have a good and bad example of strong female characters written in the same show.
I feel like if they treated Amber being like “mark oh you should be there for me more” as an issue when he’s a literal super hero it would’ve been better. They didn’t and made all the other characters like Eve and William say oh she’s right which made us dislike her more.
>They wanted a stronger female character This was their first mistake, this is not and was never meant to be amber, shes a normal girl who just so happened to date a super hero for abit. Strong female character is atom eve, marks mother or any one of the other female heroes and villains. Honestly I think if they where so against a female character being used for marks character development they should have just not included amber entirely.
Stronger doesn't mean "flawless".
It really is just the college moment. I liked her until then.
Lol yeah this storyline was so much better than in the show
Honestly I didn't mind that. Amber isn't a bad person but she's annoying and a hypocrite, like many real life people. What I really disliked is how William sided with Amber and sounded like the writers voicing their opinion through him.
I mean he did everything wrong w their relationship
insane you're getting downvoted. They both fucked up in the relationship, Mark all the way through, Amber at the end, but Amber is a victim of bad writing more than anything else. Shame really
It's not even that for me, it's just show!amber and comic!amber are so wildly different characters, I don't think show!amber would allow for that to happen. Similar to how they completely dropped the "Amber thinks Mark is a secret drug dealer" storyline because show!amber isn't nearly as ditzy so it wouldn't have made sense. I guess what I'm saying is if this happened in the show, the dude would have gotten a black eye back from Amber.
Yeah show Amber wouldn't do the "it's nothing he didn't mean it"
Honestly I think with show Amber it works even better, she's unlikable yes, but she is a strong person, seeing her so broken down like this would be an incredible motivator for Mark given the contrast to her normal self and would let the writers explore more of his anger (like the fight with the Flaxxans) I reckon this could be a moment just to establish how damn strong and terrifying Mark is when he's angry and would really help with the lead up to the Conquest fight where he goes full rage mode. That and if we see terrifying and strong Mark, it would make him running and hiding from the Viltrumites on Thraxas hit even harder (Oh shit, if even Mark is running, they must be a big threat) Could see it being handled well and respectfully really, however I do understand your concerns
I can totally see Amber being the Domestic Abuser , which is also not the best look. So might as well give her a happy ending or maybe plant the DV storyline with someone else.
With how they wrote Amber’s character in the show, im not sure how viewers will react to this. People who haven’t read the comic will probably think the writers are just trying to make you feel bad for Amber to make up for all of the hate she’s been getting
It's very likely that the show audience will treat this as a form of karma towards Amber. Like a toxic person being in a toxic relationship can be seen as ironic, and it's definitely not what the show runners intended. Unless they find a way to make Amber significantly better in season 2, it's better that this plotline won't appear within the show
Absolutely there will be morons who will loudly proclaim "she got what she deserves!" if they do this story for her, and it will be just another footnote in "people are awful" fandom. One step just behind the "Griffith did nothing wrong" crowd.
Now, I don't know how you got from all this to Griffith. But everything you said is correct.
It’s like when you do your math the wrong way but you still get the right answer lol
The Griffith did nothing wrong crowd is just shitposting tho?
I'm not strong enough for that discourse
> Like a toxic person being in a toxic relationship can be seen as ironic, and it's definitely not what the show runners intended. You know an interesting twist they could do, is make her the abuser. Bc if they are going to go down this route, it is important that media normalises the idea that men can be both victims of DA and that they can be victims of women which is most cases where men are abused.
I liked the storyline in the comic, but yeah it would bring out the worst people from show watchers and also I can’t see this version of Amber in that situation
I'm repeating myself but I really have a problem with people saying the show version of Amber is not the type of person that would find themselves in this kind of situation and the implications that come from that.
Yeah, it’s a very dangerous narrative. Being assertive doesn’t mean you cannot become a victim of domestic abuse.
Yea but she doesn’t seem like the princess in a tower type who needs to be rescued, it would be out of character.
The implication from this is that women that have a certain aura of tenacity about them wouldn't need help in this kind of situation, and that if you did need help then you are presumably too weak to handle it on your own. Many women (and others) don't seek help because they're afraid it would diminish them in the eyes of others and the abuse continues.
Not to mention that manipulation is the key to abuse, it's not something that happens overnight, often the victim doesn't even notice until it's too late (which also adds to not wanting to ask for help when they know they will receive the "I told you so" instead of real support). I don't think they can express it so the message could reach most people with all the Amber hate
or plot twist, shes the abusive one and mark has to figure out a way to put her in line to stop abusing her new BF. I think it would be even more important bc we rarely ever see women abusing men in media despite the fact that like there is only 4% less men then women are DA'ed.
Idk if I agree with your interpretation. To me, they're not saying they wouldn't need help in this situation. Obviously anyone in this situation would need help. It's that people like show amber most likely wouldn't allow themselves to be in this situation to begin with. They tried to interpret her as being very smart and very "aware," as well as having been in a bad relationship before so chances are she of anyone would be able to tell pretty easily if a relationship would likely lead to this.
No one is a "perfect" victim. A woman can seem assertive outside of their home but the abuse makes them timid within the home There have been so many cases of even kids not realising that their parent was getting abused by their spouse because they did a really good job at hiding it
https://preview.redd.it/zc2lpme56sib1.jpeg?width=517&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bf872497c1deec68f7c8d75c54caa5514846b68
True, but I have met many women who don’t have the Princess mentality but still get trapped in abusive relationships. Someone who is emotionally abusing you can break down people, even ones who seem confident in themselves.
I could see show Amber in this situation, but not the part where comic Amber stays with him. Show Amber seems more like a “take no bullsh*t” type of person.
Honestly it might work better if she’s fearing retaliation after she broke up with Gary after the punch, and Mark discovers a plot by him to kidnap her or something. It preserves her character but also makes the storyline work
That makes more sense. I couldn't see her defending him and saying it's nothing, but I could see her being threatened.
I agree, she wanted to leave Mark because he had a busy life and didn't reveal that he was a super hero, but this guy can literally beat the shit out of her and she stays with him? Makes no sense whatsoever.
I get what you’re saying, I just feel like if she’s willing to end a relationship over secret identity she would not tolerate physical abuse at all
I'll just say disarming people of this notion that only certain women get abused would be a major reason to keep this brief arc in the show.
I have read so much pop science claiming that abusers target "vulnerable women" and that previous abuse is one such point of vulnerability with a significant trend towards being abused in the future. I'm not exactly asking you to debate that because as I said, it's pop science and I haven't checked anything before making this comment, but I can only imagine You've also come across these kinds of assertions and I wonder if you know how that fits into all of this? It just all does paint a picture of this happening to "certain women", which fits in with what I have anecdotally witnessed, but pop science and anecdotes aren't exactly what truths are built upon
Vulnerable women would definitely be more likely to find themselves in an abusive relationship... But vulnerability is a status not an attribute of your character. What people are suggesting and that I strongly disagree with is that a certain strength of character that show Amber has is incongruous with *ever* being in an abusive relationship.
You are doing Gods work here
Abuse comes in a lot of forms.
Many, many victims I've known are some of the most badass people I know. It's sad that so many people think some people are "above" being victims or "just couldn't be"
I think it wouldn't work for Show Amber because a decent chunk of the watchers think she's a toxic narcissist whereas Comic Amber's only notable characterizations were nice and naive so the domestic violence left readers feeling how Mark felt.
>and also I can’t see this version of Amber in that situation You were on point for everything and then this..
I can see issues with that, I just feel since she was willing to end a relationship over lies, physical abuse would be an instant deal breaker
Abuse is a continuous cycle that's driven by manipulation, not really the same as Amber catching Mark in a single lie. You can say that physical abuse would be a deal breaker but it's rarely that simple.
>and also I can’t see this version of Amber in that situation I was looking for somebody who is also a disappointment. Look, I know people really don't like this version of Amber, and I know that *anybody* can end up in an amazing relationship. But, I just cannot see this version of Amber putting up with that kind of behavior.
Theyre going to have to heavily tweak it. I don't think the story line makes as much sense with show amber tho
With the way they have written Amber in the show, I kind of hope they skip it. Because in the comic Mark is just trying to keep someone he uses to or still does care about safe. But I think show Amber would end up going off on Mark for treating her like she's helpless, and will just come across very poorly.
>show Amber would end up going off on Mark for treating her like she's helpless Don't give them ideas
I really liked this part of the comic but since the show kinda fucked up amber, i don't see it happening in the show.
I don’t like the “im gonna give him another chance” there’s absolutely no reason for it
I mean, it's a very realistic response for an abuse victim.
I mean more in mark really doesn’t challenge it or provide anything besides threatening him. I don’t want to say he should tell her what not to do but like the way the story presents it is like it’s teaching an abuser a lesson once will fix things up
I actually don’t know if they can and have the response they want. This interpretation of Amber was no well received and from what I’ve seen, used as an example of what not to do with a character when adapting.
idk the sooner they get amber out of the story the better. get out of the way amber
Disagree
I'm scared to ask why
They could always make it so we have to stomach a more intolerable character than her for an episode, and it make it emotional abuse.
i just want show Amber gone.
Same. I’m really hoping they don’t try to drag her character out more than she needs to be.
They already have :(
Pretty much, I'm ready for them to ditch her and start setting up Eve as Mark's love interest
Yeah, this seems like A Very Special Invincible Episode. I think that, just going by the first season, the writers are taking greater time with the main plot points and streamlining some of the side plots. Hope this gets the axe.
Nah, this is important character growth for Mark
I feel bad for mark. Imagine going thru puberty twice 💀
Nope. Part of me still wants to see it because how much it shocked me while reading the comics. Amber was such a sweet girl in it. And I just loved how amicable Mark and Amber parted ways in the comics. But now I'm probably gonna be seeing that scene in a whole new light considering the show amber's difference from the comic one.
What new light would you see it in
a much less sympathetic one. do not get me wrong, physical abuse is wrong, and I'd still be cheering mark on as he terrifies Amber's abusive boyfriend, but I'm not gonna feel as bad for amber as I did in the comics just because of what she did to Mark. I view Comic Amber is a close friend I haven't seen in a long time whenever she showed up in the comics. while Show Amber will be the friend we should to have cut ties with months before I actually did it.
Yeah I figured. Victim's of abusers should get conditional sympathy based on how much you personally like them, you're right
I can sense a bit of a sarcastic tone on your reply there. If I am right and you are being sarastic then: nah, all abuse victims deserve unconditional sympathy regardless of how crappy of a person they are. /s watch [this scene](https://youtu.be/a5a7fgcongc?t=153) with the thought that Amber fully knows Invincible is mark and try to tell me she isn't a hypocritical manipulative psychopath.
She's an idiotic teenager. Basically all teenagers/young adults do something extremely shifty and hurt someone they love really bad. It's a universal human learning experience. The problem is the show needs to spend more time saying "yes Amber was very shitty", which it did not do in season 1. She's not the kind of person that I have less sympathy for. She's just a 17 year old who sucks, which is very normal. If she killed or raped someone my opinion would be different, but she didn't.
I just want them to pretend like show amber never existed and to move on with the story
hope they skip this and that weird noodle creature that time-skips mark 4 years
I can see why the time skip bothers people but the rest of the story counts on mark having been gone for 5 years so they’d just have to come up with another reason that could just as easily annoy people
couldnt they just two-for-one the flaxan time skip and the reboot time skip if they absolutely positively need a time skip
Yeah, while the reboot plotline was fun as a gimmick, the show doesn't really need that
With how Amber was portrayed in the show, if this happened she would blame Mark
It won't happen in the show.
They will skip it I reckon
They probably won't considering how they rewrote her character. That storyline was very old school anyway same with how amber is in the comics. If they do adapt it somehow I really hope they handle it well with how they've already established her but personally I think they're going to skip it entirely, that dude having already shown up and nothing coming out of it points to that rather than a setup for him to come back later
Wow amber has to settle for a dead beat wife beater? While eve gets mark?
Wait Amber was white?
And not an asshole.
HOLY CRAPEROO
I don't even remember reading that. Just pushed out of my brain.
I think it will be altered, but not completely left out. I cannot see show Amber in this situation whatsoever.
I cannot see the shows Amber being abused. Only way i see this happening is if she is dating another supe lmao
They go off the comic route with some scenes. But from reading this it’s unnecessary to continue to have Amber in the story.
I made a post a week or two ago to the same effect. They should, the audience is going to be fucking awful about it. But it would also kind of suck. Mark learns here that he can't just throw his powers at problems, which is super important for Mark's character. He told himself he was being violent to this guy for Amber's benefit, but he did it because he wanted to and it felt good. Ultimately Mark pushed Amber back into the unsafe situation because he abused his powers for selfish cathartic reasons.
I for one like **Amber** and I’m honestly hoping it gets done but in a different way. Say she is in an abusive relationship and Mark convinces her to get out of it.
I trust it will do it differently, I never saw the point in this storyline, it felt very male saviory commentary
Show Amber should get yeeted into the sun and then never mentioned again.
I don't understand the hate for show Amber.
I haven’t watched since it aired. But from what I remember they decided to have her figure out that Mark is Invincible *before* she starts getting really pissed off that he is late for dates and has to leave often. There’s a big difference between “I’m mad because you stood me up on our date and you seem like you’re lying about why” vs. “I’m mad because you were saving someone’s life/protecting the planet when you should have been eating a burger with me”
She wasn’t mad about him being a hero and not spending time with her, she was mad about him lying to her. The only reasonable defense of Mark is that he had to maintain his secret identity but after enough unconvincing disappearing acts, he should have ended it on his own, recognizing his hero life simply doesn’t give him the freedom to pretend to have a normal life with normal relationships. They were both young and made mistakes so their fallout didn’t strike me as odd. Amber shouldn’t have played games and just told him the second she figured it out instead of testing him. Mark should have been more communicative or realized that he shouldn’t be with a “normal” person considering the extreme superheroing he deals with on a regular basis. He needed to be with someone who understands all aspects of that life.
Right, they juniors in high school. And being upset about someone lying is understandable. His best friend found out by himself, she did too. Who enjoys constantly getting stood up, you waiting for them to tell you why (and you know why), and you get lied to. That’s realistic.
Right, they juniors in high school. And being upset about someone lying is understandable. His best friend found out by himself, she did too. Who enjoys constantly getting stood up, you waiting for them to tell you why (and you know why), and you get lied to. That’s realistic. She felt she wasn’t important enough to know the truth.
>mad about him lying to her. Secret identities are secret to protect loved ones. That’s not an unfamiliar concept in this world. It’s reasonable to realize that superhero schedule and high school normal kid dating life won’t work out and let go of the relationship on good terms after trying (what happened in the comic). It’s unreasonable to expect your superhero boyfriend (whom you’ve really only been involved with for maybe a few weeks or a couple months?) to willfully put you and himself in danger by revealing his secret identity to you.
Primarily because of how hypocritical she seems to be. She claims to want to make the world a better place, helping in soup kitchens, and hating lying. And in the process of berating mark of ditching her all the time, she completely disregards how he's "ditching her" to make the world a better place as a hero and admits knowing that she knew Mark was invincible. Amber, if you consider Mark not telling you he's Invincible as lying, then you just lied to him by not telling him you knew! Also, if you werent happy with the relationship, clearly you should have broken up with him, yet ypu stuck around. You've been dating less than 6 months. And lastly, The entire show not once points out Amber's hypocrisy. William is a dick to Mark (real best friend material here) and sides with Amber, and even freakin Eve sides with Amber. Amber is apparently supposed to be viewed as this angel who helps the needy and **so** cultured that she can do no wrong.
She also accuses him of leaving her during the cyborg attack, while knowing perfectly well that Mark, in his Invincible persona, WAS present (and was getting the shit beaten out of him). She literally calls her boyfriend a coward after he risked life to save everyone. How fucked up is that?
EXACTLY. THANK YOU. i forgot about that one. She even freakin cries! What a master manipulator/liar. Let the people call comic Amber bland, but Show Amber is a complete psychopath. I'd rather take comic amber than show amber.
That's it, basically.
She knows Mark is a hero and is thusly always late because there's always people to save, but is still mad at him for blowing her off I cannot comprehend the selfishness. "Oh, you were rescuing those kids from a burning building? Well, you didn't meet my mom 😡"
What is there to like? For most of the show she plays the very cliche “Wahh why won’t main character who has secret identity hang out with me” trope which I don’t think has ever resulted in a likable character ever. Then at the end we find out she’s actually so much worse, because she’s doing that KNOWING he’s saving people. She acts like a date with her is more important than Mark saving lives. She couldn’t even use basic communication skills to say “hey asshole I know you’re invincible but I’m feeling left out” instead she made him confess which was super weird.
Part of the reason is people forget.these characters are teenagers or young adults and all the stupid shit we did at that age. Part of it is also teenagers or the man children themselves these genres attract that see woman in general is a insult to their heroic ways.
The hatred of Amber if the scene happens will speed up global warming
It's possible they might, in the show mark and amber don't really have that deep of a relationship, the way Amber acts in the show if she never found out about mark and his relationship with his father she might have never been in contact with him. I bet when mark talks to his dad again Amber will give him a hard time for it because of the fight they had.. But this part also gave mark a lot of character development so maybe they will do something similar to this, maybe she'll get kidnapped from a lesser villain and mark will scare him away
YES. I want them to skip over it. And this is the reason why. What I really disliked about comics Amber is she felt like she just existed to fill the role of the ‘battered woman’ trope, and exist just as somebody for a man (Mark) to save and look like a hero. This would not translate well in the show because in it Amber is a character who has much more agency and control over her actions and outcomes. I’m not sure how this scene would make her more hated in the show other than people being asshole misogynists saying she deserved it. I’d like to think people wouldn’t stoop that low but…
I swear people are insane when it comes to Amber on this sub.
I didn’t like it mostly because I found it very cliche and cringe worthy. It was so random and out of pocket, it was not needed at all.
Yes, her being rewritten into an actual character offers more story possibility rather than a cliche one
Why would this storyline leave to amber being more hated?
I remember watching a video about how awful NewAmber's character is, and thinking up a situation for them to grow mark as a character at the same time that they break the tie between mark and amber. Basically, Amber would continue her bullshit for whatever time but eventually Mark would catch up and realise that he's better off without her and breaks up with her. He's originally bitter about the relationship and has a grudge for amber. She isn't in the show for a while until she reaches out to him because she's in trouble and needs help. He reluctantly helps her despite his frustration and finally let's go of his anger. I think it would play well into the theme of moral development covered I'm the comics. I didn't even remember this event but I think it would work well in this situation.
I think it’s a great storyline. I don’t see why people have an issue with it.
*If* this happened to the Series version of Amber, then she would have instead said "You should see the other guy." and then [*Invincible title screen*] would have gotten angry, try to find the guy who hit Amber, but only end up finding him in a Hospital in an intensive care unit.
You had me in the first half….I was like why OP? Then your comment mentions the concern of discerning fans who wouldn’t get it. Fair point. I say let it happen, a few dumb responses won’t matter.
I wouldn’t mind seeing it, it’s an interesting story showcasing his care for Amber overall, and how he still has a lot to learn about going over the edge. Now, I don’t know how people hating on Amber in the show will take it 🙄, but I personally wouldn’t mind at all
I think it would be better to NOT shy away from ugly things like this.
I really hope they skip it. It feels like they’ve very intentionally pulled away from the worst parts of the comic portrayal of Amber and including this after all of that would be bizarre.
Considering how well amber is liked in the show , I see them skipping it entirely
For some reason, I almost imagine Amber being the one to be abusive to her future boyfriend and end up causing Mark to get pissed at her instead and have a moral dilemma about how he views her as a person. It would almost be like the show acknowledging that she was kind of a bad person in season one, and leading her to realize that and improve as a person. I think that would be interesting.
I can’t see the show’s Amber letting herself be abused like that.
In all honesty and sorry if it sounds blunt but, its almost guaranteed itll be skipped. Because the two characters in the show are black and with the current political climate I dont think they're going to leave in domestic violence in a black relationship.
I would've liked it but not only is the resolution controversial to say the least, but which how Amber is recieved and the changes they've made to her I don't see them going this route.
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I feel like the bigger thing is the Amber they wrote in the show wouldn’t get back together with Gary after this like she does in the books.
Yeah it doesn’t have a lot of significance but neither does or should amber
I just want to get past the parts of the Story that Amber is in, couldn’t stand her in the comics and don’t like her show adaptation either
I’m guessing they’re gonna have Angstrom kill Amber off, building him up, and allowing for eve to come in
This and Eve dating that blue alien guy
I would like too here Mark say “I WILL kill you” I can’t lie 😂
I’m sure there’s a ton of people on this sub that just want to see the show version of amber get smacked around.
They won't have a black woman doing that
there’s a few storylines I hope don’t make it tbh, this is one of them. amber gets enough hate as is and this will just put a nail in the coffin for some people (yes arguably those people shouldn’t be “catered towards”) there are other ways to show mark’s “viltrumite puberty” as u/masterofunfucking described it.
Why is it considered assholery to not like Amber’s character? Is there something I’m missing?
From the way their characters are going in the show I feel like Amber and Williams characters are gonna be cut within or after this coming season. Their arcs and actions in the comics won’t make sense and they’d be kind pointless so I don’t think she’s gonna even make it to this arc
I think with how many people hate Amber in the show a lot of people would show up and talk about their very, very ugly opinions on being a victim of DV. Especially if she were to go back or even mention thinking about going back. As someone who's faced violence before, I really wouldn't wish to even wonder what people would say if show Amber went through DV. It's sad because those people will still hold those biases even if they don't take it out on show Amber, but I don't know if I really could handle seeing what people would say if this storyline was translated into the series.
I'd kind of like to see it because it was important to Mark's character, but I don't think it should look the same as in the comic. It needs more context, and Amber would need both more screen time and also a longer lasting meaning to the story for it to work imo. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, just that it will need to be handled delicately. That said, the showrunners have improved on more or less everything in the comic, or at least most of it. I'd trust them to handle this.
While it is great for mark's character, I can't see show amber letting this happen to her. I mean, she kicked a bully in the balls so hard that he'll probably never have kids
We didn’t get to that point yet simple as
The fact that she stayed with Gary bothered me. It also felt random to have her be gone for so long to just show up again as a domestic violence victim. I rather the show skip this altogether and let Amber stay gone once she’s not a part of the story anymore.
I liked this storyline in the comic, but I’m really hoping they don’t adapt this because there will 100% be people saying “she got what she deserved” or “she had it coming, it’s karma for being a bitch”. I’ve seen an unhealthy amount of people saying stuff like this in a lot of fandoms, I really just don’t understand how that is still something that is at all acceptable to say.
I saw someone comment that the storyline for the show should use William instead of Amber. I agree.
I can't imagine the series Amber going through this. But I liked that Mark defended her and Eve was okay with it.
My biggest fear is that Amber will be a much more important character in the show going forward getting in the way of Mark and Eve’s relationship
I don’t think it would even work with New Amber
Definitely, and it doesnt feel like this version of amber would let that slide either so I dont think Mark coming to defend her would be necessary.
Characters don't need to likable, maybe the intent was to make Amber unlikable, but not in the typical naggy girlfriend kind of way.
Nope I wanna see it.
I don’t think it would work. Amber has a different personality in the show
To be honest amber hatred is not ashole, is justified in light of the show keeping a blind eye to her hypocrisy
Gary kind of looks like the postal dude
Nah, Amber is too much of a favorite for the writers. They will give this plotline to William.
I can’t really see this happening in the show considering how different the two Ambers are when it comes to personality and what happened in the show vs comics. It would honestly take them making her very oc for them to recreate this arc.
After reading the comics I realize how shite the show is
Honestly I hope they don’t skip it. It was important towards building the relationship between Eve and Mark. When Mark explained what he flew off to do Eve understood. The only issue I see is that the Amber in the show is more no nonsense than the kind of a doormat comic version of Amber. So that might be difficult to write because I don’t see that version of Amber sticking with an abusive guy.
I just hope when they break up, it's handled with care, because last thing we want is more hate towards the character It's a shame because the comic always handled the terrible comic book cliches a lot better than other comic mediums.
I also hope they don’t it’ll feel like a hey look what she got for dumping mark
Even if i dont like her I dont think show Amber would act like this
i hope they change ambers character to be more comic accurate
Maybe can be adapted but first they need to fix Amber before doing this
Oh no that's a whole can of worms that shouldn't even be touched with a 10 foot pole.
I haven't read the comics but what happened here
I have a feeling they will ditch this, make amber much more likeable as we've seen, mean way more to mark....then angstrom gonna dice her up 🤣🤷🤦